hhhhdmt said:

Like i said before, this is a troll thread. The op is just trying to create contreoversy. "we all know that he wouldn't" have written it without the revolution? He wrote the biggest song on the record without them There is absolutely no evidence of anything provided by the op, it's just a joke. If the op doesn't like or want to purchase prince's recent work- that is completely fine. However its not an excuse to make useless threads with no evidence whatsoever. Prince achieved commercial success, not only for himself but for other artists as well. He was going to be very popular no matter what.

After years on the org, I suspect that many so-called trolls (as well as the compulsive "I make my post a 20 lines-long hysterical sentence talking about everything and nothing" posters), are actually people with mental illness or strong psychological and/or emotional issues... Might be the case here...

imago said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think all artists steal from others

I disagree, the material in Purple Rain before the movie even hit blew it up.

It's almost like saying "Prince isn't really talented, he just uses sex"

No, 1999 Little Red Corvette and a few other songs got him bigger attention

17 Day, When Doves Cry Let's Go Crazy were crankin the radio stations before PR the movie hit

Most reviews: fans & movie/music critics say nothing about "sex" being the winner for PR. Being a 'rock film' Sex Drugs & Rock n Roll it has to be in there

It's the music and performance scenes that stand out and get the applause 1st and foremost

then Morris & Jeromes comedic scenes

Prince is the puppet master, but he didn't singlehandely build his empire (that's not historically or literally possible) he had the best & right people in his camp at the time. the writer and director of Purple Rain, his band, the Time esp Morris Jerome Jesse Big Chick and all those people in the film who were actually real life people in Prince's life even Billy Sparks, his engineers Susan Rogers & Coke Johnson, David Rivkin, and the other proteges, they had to be able to see the vision Prince had and put themselves into character while being themselves and execute which is why the 1980's proteges were the best

I have no clue with what you're dissagreeing with at this point, becuase I didn't "almost" say

anything to that effect.

I didn't say Prince isn't talented. What I said was he was getting all the attention he

was receiving mainly based on his sexual provacativeness.

Every where you looked, you'd hear about Tipper Gore, Darlin Nikki, panties on stage, etc.

and rarely heard anything about a multi-talented musician.

I remember a Rolling Stones critic even saying that it was a shame his racey persona

overshaddowed some true genius.

And I think you're taking my statement that all artist 'steal' literally along with

his singlehandedly building his empire. My point is that Prince's proteges had

little to do with his success. And even if they did, being influeced by other artists

is not unique to Prince, nor can be counted as a way to discredit him.

Have people lost their ability to read on this board? Sheesh. It's embarassing I even

have to explain myself.

who on this board doesn't have to explain themselves, grow up

U SAID :Prince exploded on the scene not because of his material in Purple Rain, but because of sex.

I disagree with that and went on to explain why

OldFriends4Sale said:

imago said:

I have no clue with what you're dissagreeing with at this point, becuase I didn't "almost" say

anything to that effect.

I didn't say Prince isn't talented. What I said was he was getting all the attention he

was receiving mainly based on his sexual provacativeness.

Every where you looked, you'd hear about Tipper Gore, Darlin Nikki, panties on stage, etc.

and rarely heard anything about a multi-talented musician.

I remember a Rolling Stones critic even saying that it was a shame his racey persona

overshaddowed some true genius.

And I think you're taking my statement that all artist 'steal' literally along with

his singlehandedly building his empire. My point is that Prince's proteges had

little to do with his success. And even if they did, being influeced by other artists

is not unique to Prince, nor can be counted as a way to discredit him.

Have people lost their ability to read on this board? Sheesh. It's embarassing I even

have to explain myself.

who on this board doesn't have to explain themselves, grow up

U SAID :Prince exploded on the scene not because of his material in Purple Rain, but because of sex.

I disagree with that and went on to explain why

You rambled on with pedantic post predicated on a misinterpritation of my post.

Where does it "almost" say Prince doesn't have talent?

you grow up.

databank said:

hhhhdmt said:

Like i said before, this is a troll thread. The op is just trying to create contreoversy. "we all know that he wouldn't" have written it without the revolution? He wrote the biggest song on the record without them There is absolutely no evidence of anything provided by the op, it's just a joke. If the op doesn't like or want to purchase prince's recent work- that is completely fine. However its not an excuse to make useless threads with no evidence whatsoever. Prince achieved commercial success, not only for himself but for other artists as well. He was going to be very popular no matter what.

After years on the org, I suspect that many so-called trolls (as well as the compulsive "I make my post a 20 lines-long hysterical sentence talking about everything and nothing" posters), are actually people with mental illness or strong psychological and/or emotional issues... Might be the case here...

Have to agree. The funniest thing is the "we all know" part, these kind of posters feel like they speak for others.

hhhhdmt said:

TrevorAyer said:

are we really going to pretend that prince was that great of a songwriter? i mean come on .. half his songs are 12 bar blues run thru a drum machine .. thousands of people have written these songs before .. what made them interesting is how his band pushed prince beyond his own capabilities .. the description of kiss is case and point .. kiss would have come off as another cute but boring blues song like telemarketer blues .. or the ride .. and how many one chord funk chant songs do we need .. dmsr .. rave .. 3121 .. etc .. the revolution morris day eric leeds sheila e .. all those talented cats where around for MOST of prince finest musical output .. the proof is in the fact that without certain talent around prince music sucks .. u cant say that the revolution only influenced a small percentage of his work just because prince recorded tons of horrid music after the revolution was gone .. the fact is chaka khan made i feel for u a hit .. sinead occonnor made nothing compares to you a hit .. and the revolution guys made kiss a hit .. without those specific contributions prince would not have had hits with those songs .. as is PROVEN by the fact that his versions went nowhere .. just because prince wrote the 3 chords involved in kiss and millions of other songs, does not mean other people did not make SIGNIFICANT contributions to propel the music to the interest of the masses .. prince cant do it alone .. its been proven for about 20 years now .. he can't even come up with one masterpiece per album on his own .. it is because he is surrounded by musicians with nothing musically interesting to add .. and prince can't come up with anything that good on his own .. he needs to be jamming with the revolution and hanging with his other musical buds to share ideas and give the music the over all prince brand sound .. prince as an individual does not contain the talent to sound as good as prince the band member who played the rest of his bands ideas and parts himself .. .. his uniqeness up and uniqued right out the door .. now he just photo copies his ideas from the revolution days .. throws in a few of his fathers hokey lounge piano licks .. regurgitates his .. i got more money than u .. and .. i have more sex than you .. and .. i can still write a social message song .. lyrics over the same 3 chords he always plays .. prove me wrong prince .. put out a GOOD record .. i fuckin dare ya

No offense but you are flat out wrong

He cannot even come up with one masterpiece on his own? Who wrote when doves cry, wendy, lisa? Who wrote if i was your girlfriend? Really, trevor

So what if Sinnead made NC2U famous? Who wrote the song? Who wrote I feel for you? Not sinead, not Chaka, but Prince

And you are seriously comparing Prince to coffehouse musicians? His own band members, past and present, have called him a musical genius, and yet you think he lacks talent

When wendy, lisa, moris or any of these so called mega talented artists can write a masterpiece like When Doves Cry on their own, then you can come back

Fact is:

- The vast majority of the songs were Prince's work and HIS IDEAS

- Kiss does not represent his entire carrear.

topic is prince popularity ... compare sinead to family to rosie gaines and u will see the difference easily .. arrangement and deliver had a HUGE impact on the song .. decent song .. but it was never elevated to a GREAT song until sinead .. then when prince did it .. it was kinda lame .. also compare it to a song like "i will always love u" by dolly parton .. hit number 1 4 times .. if nc2u is so great why cant prince do that .. cuz it was sinead crying and singing and arranging that pulled out what was great about the song .. all important elements to its success and without that .. the song is just ok .. specially when prince sings it

when doves cry was written in the context of the revolution years .. and to be perfectly honest .. was a hit more because of the drum programming than the actual song .. and everyone knows it .. not that it isnt a great song .. its just that you fail to understand the little details that go into having a HIT song .. its a cool line, a cool note, a cool sound, an amazing voice .. something unique that stands out and catches everyones attention .. prince no longer has that .. cant even come close .. u all bitch about "where is wendy and lisa now" blah blah .. if wendy and lisa went around calling themselves THE REVOLUTION i bet they would have had more success .. or better yet .. call them selves prince .. since they worked so hard to push the PRINCE BRAND .. but prince gets the spoils because he takes all the credit .. thats why he can still sell records that have his name on them and sell shows .. but history proves again that his sales drop dramtically when he drops the PRINCE brand name .. and he cant sell a tour without playing the HITS as close to the original REVOLUTION influenced sound as possible .. and even then its disappointing because renato shits elevator music all over it .. people walked out of the gold experience tour and that was still fresh off massive success as prince .. because .. no revolution material and no prince name .. only the fact that people still new it was prince drew a crowd and even then people walked out cuz it sucked .. SUCKED!! .. prince was a BIG part of a successful TEAM and scene and community of musicians that were all mutually benefitted by prince success .. prince has been riding the coattails of that previous success for 20 years .. and while he is talented .. his success and popularity hinge on how well he does or does not replicate the TEAM effort of the 80's .. the fact that his newer music is sooo cringingly BAD is further evidence that his one man who does it all bio is more BRAND MARKETING than TRUTH .. even his dad got pissed that Prince was ripping him off .. and i am sorry but 'on the couch' can't hold a candle to 'scandelous' or 'under the cherry moon' .. prince can't do it on his own .. he needs truly creative people to work with and he hasn't had that in a really long time .. its the only explaination for such poor output

[Edited 1/20/12 9:58am]

[Edited 1/20/12 10:03am]

hhhhdmt said:

Like i said before, this is a troll thread. The op is just trying to create contreoversy. "we all know that he wouldn't" have written it without the revolution? He wrote the biggest song on the record without them There is absolutely no evidence of anything provided by the op, it's just a joke. If the op doesn't like or want to purchase prince's recent work- that is completely fine. However its not an excuse to make useless threads with no evidence whatsoever. Prince achieved commercial success, not only for himself but for other artists as well. He was going to be very popular no matter what.

Purple Rain

It reached #2 in the U.S., and is widely considered one of Prince's signature songs. It was certified gold by the Recording Industry Association of America, shipping 1 million units in the United States

When Doves Cry

his first American number one single, topping charts for five weeks. According to Billboard magazine, it was the top-selling single of the year.It was certified platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America, shipping two-million units in the United States.

Let's Go Crazy

When released as a single, the song became Prince's second number-one hit on the Billboard Hot 100, and also topped the two component charts, the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs and Hot Dance Club Play charts,

Kiss became Prince's third number-one U.S. hit following 1984's highly successful "When Doves Cry" and "Let's Go Crazy".

Songs like WDC, TBO, IIWYGF were Prince songs, he DID DO it on his own, regardless of your denial about it. Most other artists his age cannot match their peak output either, i guess it must be because of their bands, right? Thats your evidence

Prince doesn't need truly creative people because he has written tons and tons of amazing songs himself. Prince was not part of any so called team, he was the main guy who was responsible for composing the vast majority of the music, he had a good back up band who co wrote some good songs but who did not write the majority of the material. No one has ever claimed this, its something you decided to make up because you don't like his recent music

The fact that you called NC2U an "ok" idea shows your bias, Prince deserves the main credit for the song because he wrote it. Who cares if he did not make it a number 1 hit. It was a fantastic song from the start.

And ofcourse "within the context" of the so called revolution years. This is exactly what i have said before- revolution fan boys and anti prince trolls repeatedly give the revolution credit for songs they had nothing to do with.

TrevorAyer said:

when doves cry was written in the context of the revolution years .. and to be perfectly honest .. was a hit more because of the drum programming than the actual song .. and everyone knows it ..

Did this ninja just attempt to discredit When Doves Cry to make his point? Now what the hell does:

was a hit more because of the drum programming than the actual song....mean

Ben, mods, or whomever...can yall close down prince.org for a few days as people are suffering from seasonal affective disorder, winter blahs, seasonal affective disorder, or SOMETHING because this typical thread has the lot of yall in some kind of psychosis or mood labile episode.

folks are waving off When Doves Cry now to discredit Princes abilities now?

James Brown and Michael are even turning in their grave, stopping on a dime looking at the camera while onstage in heaven

you kept claiming that Prince needed others to be commercially successfull and when i replied that he wrote the biggest hit of his carrear on his own, you started coming up with more excuses. "oh it was the drum machines", "oh it was in context with the revolution years". Yeah right. Prince proved he could write massive hit songs on his own but i guess you are too biased to admit that

As far as wendy and lisa, what exactly did they write that was commercially massive? they could call themselves Prince, Queen or king but they were never going to be huge commercial artists. Prince is a far better songwriter than either one of them. What exactly have they ever written that is as good as WDC, IIWYGF or the beautiful ones? Nothing. You keep arguing as if they are comparable songwriters to Prince, the reality is they do not even come close.

And who exactly programmed the drums on wdc? Did they magically happen on their own? Your constant discrediting or Prince's abilities is really astounding.

[Edited 1/20/12 10:29am]

Wow... people's true colors are finally coming out. Dismissing Prince just to big up Wendy or Lisa up. I think even Wendy & Lisa and any member of Prince's groups and splinter groups (The Time included) would shake their heads at some of you for dissing the talent of the man who put them on the map in the first place. Just...wow.

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

You can't say that no one could have replaced Morris Day. There's plenty of personalities out there just like his, just as much as many females like Appollonia and Vanity. They just happen to be around at the right time. There is nothing 'outstanding' or that unique about any of their personalities. Now if you think Prince can be replaced, well it will have to be someone who can possess his music talents and outdo his stage performances, and be able to mesmerize/captivate fans like he did. Same with JB, no one can replace him as well as MJ. I don't believe we will see anyone in the future who could 'stand out' like all 3, in the way they did. Yes, Prince and MJ borrowed a lot of JB's dance styles, but they took it and made it their own, where you can distinguish it from JBs.

Chris Brown tries hard with his dancing, and he's a good dancer, but what he does, has already been done.

Yeah I think it's not an easy thing to do.

If it was anyone else that Morris & Jerome it wouldn't not have been the same and might not have worked.

Vanity had the right attitude and background and chemistry with Prince Susan & Brenda as well as with the Time to do that job, she didn't it well. Apollonia failed to fill her shoes.

Just listening to the V6 version of Sex Shooter, and Vanity nailed the song, her personality was in it and you can tell Prince and everyone else on that jam were feeding off her.

And Prince could not have been replaced either. Patti Labelle & Treyzongs should have never attempted to do Purple Rain. I vomitted.

We don't know that other people with the same talent couldn't have captured the fans as Morris, Jerome, Vanity. They're replaceable talent; they just happen to be the lucky ones picked to represent the image Prince's 'vision' and I stress "Prince's vision' wanted them to project.

[Edited 1/20/12 11:33am]

Timmy84 said:

Wow... people's true colors are finally coming out. Dismissing Prince just to big up Wendy or Lisa up. I think even Wendy & Lisa and any member of Prince's groups and splinter groups (The Time included) would shake their heads at some of you for dissing the talent of the man who put them on the map in the first place. Just...wow.

Timmy, I don't care how much peaches and cream folks try to top it with saying these associates made Prince, they know full and well it was Prince's vision that took him to a higher plateau with his music and stage persona. It was Prince that brought out the talent in all of those former band associates/protegees. It was his vision, not the other way around. He already had his talent instilled in him, which is why he chose not to play or be labeled as an 'r&b' artist, as many record execs did to so many Black musicians/artists, locking their music talents in one box, basically playing to one demographic.

Obviously Prince said 'mo way' and his 'bold image' and stage performance and mysterious persona helped to raise and maintain the attention of his audience towards his music, and all 3 images are still in that persona that he created and owns. He's still, a risk taker with his music, and has managed to keep that same touch of mystery about him, that W&L, and former band associates/proteges had absolutely nothing to do with. Pffffttt.....when Prince wrote and sang that song, "There'll Never Be Another Like Me" did they think he was kidding? He meant it. End of story.

[Edited 1/20/12 12:01pm]

I'll end this debate! Prince is a one man show. He doesn't need anyone but himself and a studio!

The only reason why there were other players is because Prince can't play all the instruments on stage by himself.

He doesn't need Wendy or Lisa

Vanity was easily replaced

The Time has had a revolving door of players as well as the splinter groups.

The one constant is Prince.

sorry to slay ur sarcastic arguement but it was those drums in WDC that drew people in to the sound into the song .. the movie purple rain .. which had tons of collaborative stars of their own in it .. none of them went on to movie stardom .. but neither did prince .. so there u have even more PROOF that prince was on an equal creative plane as those surrounding him at the time .. the movie also came out to support it WDC rise as a hit .. the song would not have stayed on top so long without the movie .. the removal of the bass was talked about more than the actual song .. it is the combination of all these elements that propelled it to the heights of popularity .. despite prince recording all the parts himself .. when people talk about when doves cry they imitate the drum line first .. the drums are the hook as much as anything .. play the keyboard part by itself .. its nothing .. not interesting .. what really makes WDC a great song is the lyrics .. compared to shit like jack u off .. or say .. pimp and circumstance .. is this really the same artist? ... or did WDC have help or at very least influence .. when prince writes a time song he tries to think of what morris might say or do .. probably puts a few of the best and funniest lines thrown around a parties into the songs .. can u deny morris star performance in purple rain ... do you credit the entire success of the movie to prince .. and then deny the hype and promotional value of the movie giving rise to prince popularity .. do you credit the movie at all to WDC staying on top so long? .. clearly u don't because u are ignorant to what makes a song group brand personal popular .. did morris not write party up .. did lisa not sing 'head' or write mountains .. or sometimes it snows or power fantastic .. did dr. fink not write dirty mind .. did cyndi lauper not establish when u were mine as a pop standard .. did the revolution not appear in the music video for when doves cry .. did susannah not inspire lyics to crystal ball or the entire family album .. did the time not back up vanity live, perform their own well recieved set to help promote the prince brand and tour .. why is 'manic monday' a bigger hit than '1999' they are the same song right? even so .. did dez not sing .. at what point does it sink in that prince was a product of a group and when that group was over prince displayed a shame ful lack of ability to remain popular or relevant .. hiring a rapper and showing his ass on tv what his last sell out gasp for popularity .. without the music machine behind him surrounding him with incredibly talented songwriters and players prince puts out garbage .. and i mean glass coaster garbage .. turn that cd into a christmas tree ornamnt garbage .. who writes a whole album based on the letter x anyway .. prince is so uninspired his muse is now the alphabet .. great .. thats what is wrong with you people .. you don't tell the truth and u won't see the truth when its right in front of your eyes .. and its you trolls who cheer on prince all the time that made him lazy .. there is no reason he could not work with the revolution other than his fear of proving himself less important than he thought .. his fear of making a GOOD album after 20 years of diarhea and it being credited fairly finally.

TrevorAyer said:

sorry to slay ur sarcastic arguement but it was those drums in WDC that drew people in to the sound into the song .. the movie purple rain .. which had tons of collaborative stars of their own in it .. none of them went on to movie stardom .. but neither did prince .. so there u have even more PROOF that prince was on an equal creative plane as those surrounding him at the time .. the movie also came out to support it WDC rise as a hit .. the song would not have stayed on top so long without the movie .. the removal of the bass was talked about more than the actual song .. it is the combination of all these elements that propelled it to the heights of popularity .. despite prince recording all the parts himself .. when people talk about when doves cry they imitate the drum line first .. the drums are the hook as much as anything .. play the keyboard part by itself .. its nothing .. not interesting .. what really makes WDC a great song is the lyrics .. compared to shit like jack u off .. or say .. pimp and circumstance .. is this really the same artist? ... or did WDC have help or at very least influence .. when prince writes a time song he tries to think of what morris might say or do .. probably puts a few of the best and funniest lines thrown around a parties into the songs .. can u deny morris star performance in purple rain ... do you credit the entire success of the movie to prince .. and then deny the hype and promotional value of the movie giving rise to prince popularity .. do you credit the movie at all to WDC staying on top so long? .. clearly u don't because u are ignorant to what makes a song group brand personal popular .. did morris not write party up .. did lisa not sing 'head' or write mountains .. or sometimes it snows or power fantastic .. did dr. fink not write dirty mind .. did cyndi lauper not establish when u were mine as a pop standard .. did the revolution not appear in the music video for when doves cry .. did susannah not inspire lyics to crystal ball or the entire family album .. did the time not back up vanity live, perform their own well recieved set to help promote the prince brand and tour .. why is 'manic monday' a bigger hit than '1999' they are the same song right? even so .. did dez not sing .. at what point does it sink in that prince was a product of a group and when that group was over prince displayed a shame ful lack of ability to remain popular or relevant .. hiring a rapper and showing his ass on tv what his last sell out gasp for popularity .. without the music machine behind him surrounding him with incredibly talented songwriters and players prince puts out garbage .. and i mean glass coaster garbage .. turn that cd into a christmas tree ornamnt garbage .. who writes a whole album based on the letter x anyway .. prince is so uninspired his muse is now the alphabet .. great .. thats what is wrong with you people .. you don't tell the truth and u won't see the truth when its right in front of your eyes .. and its you trolls who cheer on prince all the time that made him lazy .. there is no reason he could not work with the revolution other than his fear of proving himself less important than he thought .. his fear of making a GOOD album after 20 years of diarhea and it being credited fairly finally.

So people who basically don't like his current music are the ones who will make it seem like his band members made Prince. That's all. Its two sides of the coin and we all know what side you are on. I happen to enjoy Prince's recent music. and out of ALL the studio releases by associated artists and his bandmembers, looking at Prince's career today, I see NO evidence of what he has to fear! None of their music comes even close to having an impact on me the way it does from Prince. Simple as that. You would think they would be creating masterpieces enjoyed by all but they don't. Matter of fact, the Original 7ven, so far is the only group of musician that created a CD that could rival Prince's. Not any of Wendy and Lisa's cds, sure as hell not FDeluxe, Not browmark or Dr. Fink (lord his last cd sucked). after all you make these band members out to be I would expect that their music will back this up.

and if you have not been satisfied with Prince in 20 years then why are you here. That's a long ass time to be following someone who has not satisfied you in music. that's just down right bizarre. f I was Prince and knew people were thinking about me and spending time talking about me for 20 years like that I would be so creeped out by that.

[Edited 1/20/12 12:25pm]

TrevorAyer said:

sorry to slay ur sarcastic arguement but it was those drums in WDC that drew people in to the sound into the song ..

....log off already

i would think with how great everyone thinks prince music is .. that he could back it up .. he doesn't put out anything better than any of those other groups .. he sells more because of his previous fame but the music is not any better .. i am here for the same reason every one else is .. his music and the music of his collaborators was some of the best of all time .. and i am always hoping that he will do something good again .. the only thing the original 7 proved is that they would and could still bring the goods to work with prince .. prince has yet to prove he can write a song worthy of them playing as the TIME .. i would say 'never be another like me' is prnce trying to sound like the time .. but its not a good song at all even if the time chose to sing it ... i rest my case

TrevorAyer said:

.. prince has yet to prove he can write a song worthy of them playing as the TIME ..

"For the love of god, stay down Rock! Stay down!"-Mick/Burgess Meredith

Timmy84 said:

Wow... people's true colors are finally coming out. Dismissing Prince just to big up Wendy or Lisa up. I think even Wendy & Lisa and any member of Prince's groups and splinter groups (The Time included) would shake their heads at some of you for dissing the talent of the man who put them on the map in the first place. Just...wow.

Speaking for myself, I stated that his proteges are an contributing factor to his success. A CEO doesn't run a corporation alone, though he is the heart of the operation, do they?

TrevorAyer said:

i would think with how great everyone thinks prince music is .. that he could back it up .. he doesn't put out anything better than any of those other groups .. he sells more because of his previous fame but the music is not any better .. i am here for the same reason every one else is .. his music and the music of his collaborators was some of the best of all time .. and i am always hoping that he will do something good again .. the only thing the original 7 proved is that they would and could still bring the goods to work with prince .. prince has yet to prove he can write a song worthy of them playing as the TIME .. i would say 'never be another like me' is prnce trying to sound like the time .. but its not a good song at all even if the time chose to sing it ... i rest my case

Like I said its been 20 YEARS. Move on.

I find it so amazing how people can't walk away from Prince. They rather stick around and continue to be unsatisfied. Bizarre.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Timmy84 said:

Wow... people's true colors are finally coming out. Dismissing Prince just to big up Wendy or Lisa up. I think even Wendy & Lisa and any member of Prince's groups and splinter groups (The Time included) would shake their heads at some of you for dissing the talent of the man who put them on the map in the first place. Just...wow.

Speaking for myself, I stated that his proteges are an contributing factor to his success. A CEO doesn't run a corporation alone, though he is the heart of the operation, do they?

No but it don't mean that they were the main reasons for that corporation to keep on running.

[Edited 1/20/12 12:52pm]

wonder505 said:

TrevorAyer said:

i would think with how great everyone thinks prince music is .. that he could back it up .. he doesn't put out anything better than any of those other groups .. he sells more because of his previous fame but the music is not any better .. i am here for the same reason every one else is .. his music and the music of his collaborators was some of the best of all time .. and i am always hoping that he will do something good again .. the only thing the original 7 proved is that they would and could still bring the goods to work with prince .. prince has yet to prove he can write a song worthy of them playing as the TIME .. i would say 'never be another like me' is prnce trying to sound like the time .. but its not a good song at all even if the time chose to sing it ... i rest my case

Like I said its been 20 YEARS. Move on.

I find it so amazing how people can't walk away from Prince. They rather stick around and continue to be unsatisfied. Bizarre.

oh are u the taste police .. any other rules before u give me permission to be here officer .. how bout u move on to a thread where they don't disect and debate music and its creation .. i am sure there is a "when did u first masturbate to the cover of a prince record" thread somewhere u will enjoy .. i believe the title of this thread is clearly marked and makes no false pretenses to be anything other than what it is ..

TrevorAyer said:

wonder505 said:

Like I said its been 20 YEARS. Move on.

I find it so amazing how people can't walk away from Prince. They rather stick around and continue to be unsatisfied. Bizarre.

oh are u the taste police .. any other rules before u give me permission to be here officer .. how bout u move on to a thread where they don't disect and debate music and its creation .. i am sure there is a "when did u first masturbate to the cover of a prince record" thread somewhere u will enjoy .. i believe the title of this thread is clearly marked and makes no false pretenses to be anything other than what it is ..

awww did i touch a nerve?? no policing here, just think following a man who has in your opinion produced 20 years of "garbage" is very strange.

but hey you're right, its your right to do so no matter how bizarre it is.

[Edited 1/20/12 13:16pm]

TrevorAyer said:

sorry to slay ur sarcastic arguement but it was those drums in WDC that drew people in to the sound into the song ..

Well, the lyrics and melody might have had something to do with it as well... And anyway as said above who programmed this goddamn Linn drum machine? It didn't do it by itself...

the movie purple rain .. which had tons of collaborative stars of their own in it .. none of them went on to movie stardom .. but neither did prince .. so there u have even more PROOF that prince was on an equal creative plane as those surrounding him at the time ..

Mmmh... People (poorly) acting in a movie is a PROOF that they were MUSICALLY equal to each other?

the movie also came out to support it WDC rise as a hit .. the song would not have stayed on top so long without the movie ..

Not so sure, it was released before the movie and iirc it immediately became a hit.

the removal of the bass was talked about more than the actual song ..

By us hardcore fans... the million+ people who bought the single probably didn't even notice...

it is the combination of all these elements that propelled it to the heights of popularity .. despite prince recording all the parts himself ..when people talk about when doves cry they imitate the drum line first .. the drums are the hook as much as anything .. play the keyboard part by itself .. its nothing .. not interesting .. what really makes WDC a great song is the lyrics .. compared to shit like jack u off .. or say .. pimp and circumstance .. is this really the same artist? ... or did WDC have help or at very least influence .. when prince writes a time song he tries to think of what morris might say or do .. probably puts a few of the best and funniest lines thrown around a parties into the songs .. can u deny morris star performance in purple rain ... do you credit the entire success of the movie to prince .. and then deny the hype and promotional value of the movie giving rise to prince popularity .. do you credit the movie at all to WDC staying on top so long? ..

God u're giving me a headache! Didn't you ever hear about pressing "enter" and using caps at the beginning of sentences? I don't know what your point is, we're constantly skipping from movie to music to movie to music... Prince was the mastermind, the star, the brain behind the whole operation, save the movie script and directing which, very honestly, suck for the most part of it (I mean it's a cool rock & roll film but it ain't Citizen Kane or The Godfather or Fight Club, and Morris, no matter how funny his acting, isn't exactly DeNiro, Pacino or Brad Pitt... and anyway who gives a shit, we're talking MUSIC here!

clearly u don't because u are ignorant to what makes a song group brand personal popular ..

Obviously you are as well: how many of your songs entered the charts?

did morris not write party up .. did lisa not sing 'head' or write mountains .. or sometimes it snows or power fantastic .. did dr. fink not write dirty mind .. did cyndi lauper not establish when u were mine as a pop standard .. did the revolution not appear in the music video for when doves cry .. did susannah not inspire lyics to crystal ball or the entire family album .. did the time not back up vanity live, perform their own well recieved set to help promote the prince brand and tour .. why is 'manic monday' a bigger hit than '1999' they are the same song right? even so .. did dez not sing ..

You tend to transform "co-writing" into "writing", and if a girl inspiring a song makes her a co-writer then where are we going? But anyway no one denies that these people were there and contributed here and there, what we deny is that Prince would have been nothing without them. I'm a huge fan of what W&L, and many other ex-musicians have done after they left Prince's bands, but nonetheless I wouldn't give them more credit than credit is due, and Prince was and would have been a major artist no matter who he'd chosen to surrender himself with.

at what point does it sink in that prince was a product of a group and when that group was over prince displayed a shame ful lack of ability to remain popular or relevant .. hiring a rapper and showing his ass on tv what his last sell out gasp for popularity .. without the music machine behind him surrounding him with incredibly talented songwriters and players prince puts out garbage .. and i mean glass coaster garbage .. turn that cd into a christmas tree ornamnt garbage .. who writes a whole album based on the letter x anyway .. prince is so uninspired his muse is now the alphabet .. great .. thats what is wrong with you people .. you don't tell the truth and u won't see the truth when its right in front of your eyes .. and its you trolls who cheer on prince all the time that made him lazy ..

You're just being mean and you know it. What the fuck is that about mocking the titles from Xpectation, it's ridiculous! When Prince was naming his Madhouse songs after numbers it was great and when he names them after a letter it's lame? You're making a fool of yourself, gimme a break! And what's this whole bullshit about the Truth? Do you suffer mental illness that you think that you, of all people, know the Truth with a capital T. Whether one likes or dislikes what Prince has done for the last 20 years, his recording history is impressive to say the least, and you being a musician should, of all people, admit it!

there is no reason he could not work with the revolution other than his fear of proving himself less important than he thought .. his fear of making a GOOD album after 20 years of diarhea and it being credited fairly finally.

You are 100% assuming.

I'm quite disappointed by Björk's last few albums, for example, but nonetheless she's fucking Björk and she does what she does with such dedication and puts so much hard work into it, and there's such a unique signature to whatever she does that... Damn... I just shut my mouth and I ain't gonna go around claiming she ain't shit without Nellee Hopper or Howie B. around!!! What made Björk Björk always was Björk and what makes Prince Prince always was Prince, and the same can be said about any great artist I can think of!

I'm listening to you songs right now. Not my kinda stuff AT ALL, but nonetheless I find some of them nice to hear and quite inspired. But I wouldn't go as far as to say that you are in a position to lecture Prince about his own music, if you see what I mean. Be humble, be honest with yourself, admit that maybe you don't know shit about what you're talking about and that it's no big deal. Do your songs in your league and let Prince do his in his own... Show some respect dude!

[Edited 1/20/12 13:35pm]

And I'll add that in my opinion, for what little it's worth, Prince has put out a LOT of bloddy great music these last 20 years!

dear databank .. thanks for checking out my music and saying nice stuff about it .. also bjork is pretty awesome .. earth intruders .. that song she did with antony .. still gets me the way her earlier stuff did .. tho i agree some of her stuff has been less inspiring as well .. i certainly appreciate prince but also feel he deserves a fair dose of criticism to push him along artistically .. as does everyone wouldnt u say .. i mean look at the world .. its pretty messed up right now .. if prince cant write a hit than thats a shure sign of the apocolypse if there ever was one .. so in order to save the world we must teach each other excellence .. we must teach prince excellence so that he can show others what excellence looks like ..

now you have come up with another excuse to discredit prince when it comes to writing the biggest hit of his carrear "oh it was because of the movie" and "everyone was on equal footing". Nonsense. I asked what did wendy and lisa write which is as good as The beautiful ones, WDC, if i was your girlfiend? Answer to that is nothing. There is no comparison here.

And songs like Mountains and SISIA were co written. Virtually every artist before Prince also used co writers.

And none of his band members were co called "incredibly talenteed writers". I asked, what exactly did they write that were as good as the best songs prince wrote and your reply was nothing

Lastly, if prince reunited with the "magial" revolution, he would NEVER match his peak output again. Just like Stevie wonder will never like Songs in Key or Innervissions again. Just like the Stones will never match Exile again. Your argument that Prince was a "product" of the people around him is comical considering how many hit songs and great songs he has written. You not liking his music isn't an excuse to make things up. Clearly reality hasn't sunk in with you since you are in denial mode.

By the way Prince was the time, he was the reason why the time were successfull in the first place. And if his collaborators were among the "best of all time", who exactly considers the likes of wendy, lisa, moris etc as all time great songwriters?

wdc would not have been as popular without purple rain the movie

purple rain the movie would not have been as popular without ALL the talent that contributed to it's success

prince would not have been as popular without that same group, the revolution, vanity, the time, sheila e, his dad, contributing to his success. its not an insult to prince its only an insult to your idea that everything came from prince and everyone else could have been replaced with just anybody.

i have not implied that prince contributed nothing and was made by everyone around him .. i am stating that those around him were far more essential to the success artistically as well as in terms of popularity, than they are given credit for. which is completely true as is evidenced by his dramatic drop in artistic integrity as well as popularity, when no longer surrounded by certain collaborators.