angel345 said:

wonder505 said:

Bambi was released in 1979 waaaay before the Revolution, and there is nothing R&B about that song and the subject matter, to my knowledge I don't think many were singing about that. 1999 was released before the Revolution came on board. Is that cd totally R&B? Where do you think the Revolution members would be today without Prince?

Sister Fate brought them all together

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

He said in a 1985 interview that Jimi Hendrix he doesn't get the comparison ... go figure

Ike Turner?

Many fans have compared his guitar style to Jimi as well as some of the clothes he wore in the 80s on stage. Jimi was wearing shirts w/frills, and hats. He mentioned Ike Turner and Chuck Berry in an interview as one of his influences. It was either in Ebony magazine or Jet. I believe it was the 2010 issue.

Yeah I've compared it to him as well back then

Rick James used to argue that Prince got a lot of his thing from him, He said he was rocking the ruffled shirts before Prince and the protege thing with the Mary Jane Girls ie Vanity 6 & Tina Marie ie Sheila E

I guess according to a 1985 interview Led Zepplin & George Clinton too

I think the Small Club Aftershow types he kinda mirrored after his dad when he used to go see him do his little shows

What do you think about the comparisons between you and Jimi Hendrix?

It's only because he's black. That's really the only thing we have in common. He plays different guitar than I do. If they really listened to my stuff, they'd hear more of a Santana influence than Jimi Hendrix. Hendrix played more blues; Santana played prettier. You can't compare people, you really can't, unless someone is blatantly trying to rip somebody off. And you really can't tell that unless you play the songs.

alexandernevamind said:

databank said:

With all due respect, i suggest you read the massive quantity of documentation that's been published about Prince's career and his creative process, and then come back here to discuss your opinion about the facts you've read about.

Peace

[Edited 1/16/12 3:23am]

Were you there? Are you a former Prince employee? Have you discussed this with former Prince employee's?

If you haven't personally interviewed people that worked with Prince during this time, you don't know shit but what you'ved read on the internet just like everyone else.

I've read Per Nielsen's, Alex Hahn's, Dez Dickerson's and Liz Jones' highly documented books, most articles on Princevault.com (which is mostly derivated from Nielsen and Uptown magazine's research), as well as most of Prince's former associates and musicians interviews ever done on paper or online... So yeah, I've read shit like anyone else, but obviously you haven't read anything at all.

Contrarly to some people's belief (see the "there is no vault" believers), Prince's recording history is highly documented, particularly the Warner years, and we know quite precisely who did what on which track, when, in which recording studio, etc. The whole recording process for Kiss, for example, has been told in details by the people involved http://mixonline.com/mag/...nces_kiss/. That plus the fact that Prince's original demo has been circulating among collectors for years, but obviously you wouldn't know that either...

So yeah I wasn't there, but those who were there have extensively spoken about it all...

You pop-up from nowhere, obviously having read nothing than SOME gossip shit on the internet, and you star to lecture people who've read ALL the historical shit... Gimme a break, dude

I'm not trying to bring u down, just sayin' that every coupla days someone pops-up on this website and claims to know it all without having read the appropriate documentation. Read first, speak later. Peace

[Edited 1/19/12 8:35am]

prince and jimi hendrix have a lot in common .. like paisley .. santana hmm not so much .. more like kenny g .. sorry but santana plays very nice melodies .. prince plays elevator music melodies .. prince would not have crossed over without the revolution .. prince was trying to be new wave and his band gave him that sound , for that era of music .. to fit in with the big rollers of the time .. mj was the true star of r+b dance funk disco .. prince went for that duran duran money .. he needed a look so he got a band that dressed like duran duran and played like duran duran and he succeeded because of that .. without that he would have had moderate success but no crossover appeal .. kinda like he is now .. only jehovah witnesses with zero musical taste who still crush on prince after 40 years of fanaticism can appreciate his music these days .. oh and the fact that the revolution was a real band that helped write and perform with more creativity than any of the schlock boring dull musicians he has worked with since .. yeah i am talking to you renato .. you should be fired for ruining everything you touch .. u are right up there with tony m in the whos who of who fucked up prince sound the worse

OldFriends4Sale said:

wonder505 said:

Bambi was released in 1979 waaaay before the Revolution, and there is nothing R&B about that song and the subject matter, to my knowledge I don't think many were singing about that. 1999 was released before the Revolution came on board. Is that cd totally R&B? Where do you think the Revolution members would be today without Prince?

I don't mean to sound contradicktory, but your post sounds like the Revolution is a totally different group of people. The only change in the band from late 1980 - 1982 was Dez - Wendy before the PR Revolution there was Bobby Matt Brown Lisa Dez in 1983 it was still Bobby Matt Brown Lisa and changed from Dez 2 Wendy

Also many consider the 1999 album and years the noituloveR it's on the album cover and Prince has called the the Revolution during songs. 1 example was the Sexuality performance he shouts out something like "Revolution let's go!!!"

Agreed.

OldFriends4Sale said:

wonder505 said:

Bambi was released in 1979 waaaay before the Revolution, and there is nothing R&B about that song and the subject matter, to my knowledge I don't think many were singing about that. 1999 was released before the Revolution came on board. Is that cd totally R&B? Where do you think the Revolution members would be today without Prince?

I don't mean to sound contradicktory, but your post sounds like the Revolution is a totally different group of people. The only change in the band from late 1980 - 1982 was Dez - Wendy before the PR Revolution there was Bobby Matt Brown Lisa Dez in 1983 it was still Bobby Matt Brown Lisa and changed from Dez 2 Wendy

Also many consider the 1999 album and years the noituloveR it's on the album cover and Prince has called the the Revolution during songs. 1 example was the Sexuality performance he shouts out something like "Revolution let's go!!!"

His first band was Andre, Gayle, Matt, Dez and Bobby. Lisa replaced Gayle and then Wendy and BrownMark replaced Dez and Andre. Matt and Bobby are the only original Revolution members that were there from day one. In additoin to Bambi there was another song from his second album that has crossover appeal. I cant remember right now but it was guitar heavy. I'm not sure exactly when MarkBrown came on board or Lisa, but 1999 was released in 1983 and I don't think Wendy or mark was no board then. To say Prince would have been just another R&B act without the Revolution is just silly. I don't think Prince set out to be like everyone else.

[Edited 1/19/12 8:50am]

wonder505 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't mean to sound contradicktory, but your post sounds like the Revolution is a totally different group of people. The only change in the band from late 1980 - 1982 was Dez - Wendy before the PR Revolution there was Bobby Matt Brown Lisa Dez in 1983 it was still Bobby Matt Brown Lisa and changed from Dez 2 Wendy

Also many consider the 1999 album and years the noituloveR it's on the album cover and Prince has called the the Revolution during songs. 1 example was the Sexuality performance he shouts out something like "Revolution let's go!!!"

His first band was Andre, Gayle, Matt, Dez and Bobby. Lisa replaced Gayle and then Wendy and BrownMark replaced Dez and Andre. Matt and Bobby are the only original Revolution members that were there from day one. In additoin to Bambi there was another song from his second album that has crossover appeal. I cant remember right now but it was guitar heavy. I'm not sure exactly when MarkBrown came on board or Lisa, but 1999 was released in 1983 and I don't think Wendy or mark was no board then. To say Prince would have been just another R&B act without the Revolution is just silly. I don't think Prince set out to be like everyone else.

[Edited 1/19/12 8:50am]

Together, Prince and the Revolution made some very good music, and I will leave it at that.

wonder505 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't mean to sound contradicktory, but your post sounds like the Revolution is a totally different group of people. The only change in the band from late 1980 - 1982 was Dez - Wendy before the PR Revolution there was Bobby Matt Brown Lisa Dez in 1983 it was still Bobby Matt Brown Lisa and changed from Dez 2 Wendy

Also many consider the 1999 album and years the noituloveR it's on the album cover and Prince has called the the Revolution during songs. 1 example was the Sexuality performance he shouts out something like "Revolution let's go!!!"

His first band was Andre, Gayle, Matt, Dez and Bobby. Lisa replaced Gayle and then Wendy and BrownMark replaced Dez and Andre. Matt and Bobby are the only original Revolution members that were there from day one. In additoin to Bambi there was another song from his second album that has crossover appeal. I cant remember right now but it was guitar heavy. I'm not sure exactly when MarkBrown came on board or Lisa, but 1999 was released in 1983 and I don't think Wendy or mark was no board then. To say Prince would have been just another R&B act without the Revolution is just silly. I don't think Prince set out to be like everyone else.

[Edited 1/19/12 8:50am]

I agree. From the start, Prince never presented himself as just another R&B act, especially before W&L joined his band. If Bobby and Matt were there from the beginning then I could see them receiving more credit that W&L. Somehow it's not surprising that some fans only want to 'validate' Prince as an upscale musician, only when associated with W&L , as though his music/talent before they joined the band, wasn't already being well received.

wonder505 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't mean to sound contradicktory, but your post sounds like the Revolution is a totally different group of people. The only change in the band from late 1980 - 1982 was Dez - Wendy before the PR Revolution there was Bobby Matt Brown Lisa Dez in 1983 it was still Bobby Matt Brown Lisa and changed from Dez 2 Wendy

Also many consider the 1999 album and years the noituloveR it's on the album cover and Prince has called the the Revolution during songs. 1 example was the Sexuality performance he shouts out something like "Revolution let's go!!!"

His first band was Andre, Gayle, Matt, Dez and Bobby. Lisa replaced Gayle and then Wendy and BrownMark replaced Dez and Andre. Matt and Bobby are the only original Revolution members that were there from day one. In additoin to Bambi there was another song from his second album that has crossover appeal. I cant remember right now but it was guitar heavy. I'm not sure exactly when MarkBrown came on board or Lisa, but 1999 was released in 1983 and I don't think Wendy or mark was no board then. To say Prince would have been just another R&B act without the Revolution is just silly. I don't think Prince set out to be like everyone else.

[Edited 1/19/12 8:50am]

I was commenting on the use of the Revolution like it was a brand new group of people.

those that were in the Revolution [-Wendy] were in the band since Controversy 1980/81

No where in my post did I argue anything about crossover. I don't think Bambi gave him crossover success though. I don't know of any other rock heavy songs from the 2nd album

and Dirty Mind didn't have any. He had the New Wave sound to buffer him from having a RnB driven sound.

Bobby Z (1977) He played drums with Prince for 94East

Dr Fink (1978)

Brown Mark came on before COntroversy(1980/81)

Lisa Coleman came on before Dirty Mind(1979/80)

Dez Dickerson (1978)

Gayle Chapman(1978)

Wendy Melvoin(1982) Wendy is on Free & Irrisistable Bitch

Come on brother, you're making a statement without facts.

1999 was released in 1982

BrownMark was in the band for Controversy

Wendy was in the camp since Dirty Mind. Wendy & Prince became friends back then.
Lisa moved to Minneapolis 1st, She and Prince even lived together, she talked about doing his laundry with hers and making him sandwiches.

Prince never wanted to labelled an RnB act I agree

and He told the producers he didn't want to be marketed as a black artist

But even with a few rock songs he could have still be pigeonheld as an RnB artist

It's partially why he had to shake things up for the 3rd album, the Rebels project help with that where the delved more into hard rock sounds. With Dez Prince started to amp up the shows, something that Dez brought to the table, alot of the songs they performed live turned into rock songs like Dirty Mind, All the Critics. Shows became heavy hitting and steamy

Controversy group

Dr Fink Brown Mark Bobby Z Prince Dez Dickerson Lisa Coleman

1999 the noituloveR

BrownMark BobbyZ Prince Lisa Coleman Dr Fink Dez Dickerson

Purple Rain the Revolution

BrownMark Prince Bobby Z Dr Fink Lisa Coleman Wendy Melvoin

2elijah said:

wonder505 said:

His first band was Andre, Gayle, Matt, Dez and Bobby. Lisa replaced Gayle and then Wendy and BrownMark replaced Dez and Andre. Matt and Bobby are the only original Revolution members that were there from day one. In additoin to Bambi there was another song from his second album that has crossover appeal. I cant remember right now but it was guitar heavy. I'm not sure exactly when MarkBrown came on board or Lisa, but 1999 was released in 1983 and I don't think Wendy or mark was no board then. To say Prince would have been just another R&B act without the Revolution is just silly. I don't think Prince set out to be like everyone else.

I agree. From the start, Prince never presented himself as just another R&B act, especially before W&L joined his band. If Bobby and Matt were there from the beginning then I could see them receiving more credit that W&L. Somehow it's not surprising that some fans only want to 'validate' Prince as an upscale musician, only when associated with W&L , as though his music/talent before they joined the band, wasn't already being well received.

Lisa Coleman who came into the camp during the Prince album tour, worked more closely with Prince than most of them she was there since 1979/80

I know it's hard cause of their relationship but Lisa Coleman came first and even lived with Prince for a while.

OldFriends4Sale said:

ladygirl99 said:

For the last dang ole time Sheila E said in recent years she and Prince were more than friends at one point. Other orgers that I used to talk to (some who are no longer here)who actually can confirm this the relationship as she stated this in People magazine and other magazines over the last several years. And look up on Youtube under "Way Black When: Sheila E!": Even though she didnt officially said she accepted Prince's engagement, even a dumbass can pickup there were more romance between her and Prince and she said Prince wanted to marry her. And finally another orger said they went to a show that featured Sheila E and her family in Cali several years ago and Pete E confirmed he it was too bad that Prince wasn't his son-in-law.

Another thing, you dont know shit about the actuality of Prince and Sheila E more than friendship just as much as the rest of us fans don't , other than based on magazines and interviews, they dont quality as much as actually being presence of the events happen in Prince's life. Sheila E doesnt broadcast her relationship with Prince and she always keep her personal life private, and we never know what they actually had other than hearsay but YES Sheila E did confirmed her and Prince were more than friends especially around Lovesexy era but they drifted apart in the early 90s and it lasted several years to the point she was denied entrance to Paisley Park. BTW quit with the arrogance bullshyt and dismissing other fans who might read and heard different interviews from the protegees because you havent heard that info before. No matter how many interviews and books you read about Prince and his protegees, you are NOT an insider, so deal with it if you havent yet.

Ewwww such nastiness from a 'lady' of the night

Of course they were more than friends. Who doesn't acknowledge that, I said they were friends with benefits.

Was she engaged to Prince when he was dating Vanity? or before that when he was dating his pre fame love Susan Moonsie, is this when he was engaged to her? or actress Troy Breyer... Or was he engaged to her the same time he moved Susannah in his home and became engaged to her? Or was it when he met R U Legal Yet? Anna Fantastic and kept her in his bed until 18?

Mind games were played

Look just because you parade around your house in lace and 1 legged pants playing with sticks doesn't make you Sheila as you fantasize about Prince making love to you.

Things don't add up, You don't know shit about the actuality of their relationship either. When a man give another woman a ring and moves him into his house... mmmmm You were being played to help build a protege image of romance 1600 and wispers of stolen kisses of noon day rendezvous.

I love Sheila but it wasn't real.

And 4 all of the other women, they were different degrees of reality in Prince Erotic City

It was reportedly Sheila and Prince were engaged around Lovesexy tour. of course, at least I dont use history books to determine their relationship, life experiences doesnt always be in a book. So using Prince history books simply does not make you an expert on Prince's life experience and same goes his protegees, I know my role as a fan and at least I don't knock down other fans, including you, when you share your knowledge. I never said that I know because I admitted all along I am just a fan you are the one who insisted you know more and yet you are purely getting your information based on your theories and books and therefore why should I take people like you seriously. For you being a moderator, I expected more out of you as you simply at times failed to be subjective. You are Prince fan bookwarm, nothing more just wish you come to terms and learn how to play your role rather than spewing some knowledge and thinking you are some insider but you just reciting your facts from some third party history books okay. But at least you finally admitted Sheila E and Prince were somewhat more than just collegues, and once again you dont know if they were friends with benefits because AGAIN you wasnt there to confirm it. Susannah might had got that engagement ring and she and Prince lived together and wrote couple songs, but Sheila E was his ride or die chick before and after Susannah came to the picture. And on top of that Prince and Sheila E had a couple hits together with Love Bizarre and Erotic City. Susannah simply became a nonmutha factor after 1986 but he did gave her props to that song on Enanicpation and I seen Susannah was behind Prince ( I think I seen Lisa too) at 1995 American Music Awards when he refused to sang We Are the World Song and sucked that lollipop. I have to admit Susannah is likely has been in and out of Prince's life as a friend. With Sheila, I even had to called out (other fans did too) on Sheila E last year when she was going to put aside her schedule to catered to Prince that was before that strange rant on her twitter page about her and Prince wont do other concerts together in the future.

My issue with some fans is they claimed Susannah is the love of his life, maybe in that time period, but so are other women followed her and before she came along. Prince and Susannah may be got the house, but Prince had a child with Mayte and was his wife, Manuela was his wife too, and works with Sheila E to this day. I just have issues with fans who doesn't know their role and spreading shyt for their agendas. LOLOOLOLOL....................................

2elijah said:

At the end of the day, not a single soul here lived with Prince to know 'that' much about him including me, unless anyone here sat down, and had an actual conversation with him. But one thing for sure, it's obvious he already had his music talent/gifts long before he let W&L join his band. It's no secret he gave other musicians/artists the opportunity to 'showcase' their music talents, when they performed/collaborated with him. It would be no mistake though, that you can hear and tell who many of his great music 'influences' and 'inspirations' are, from actual, well-known musicians/artists/performers with household names like, Ike Turner, Larry Graham, Sly Stone, Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, Santana, Joni Mitchell, James Brown, and many others, in his music/performances. And of those mentioned, he sings many of their songs today.

[Edited 1/19/12 6:34am]

Yeah that! I agree.

2elijah said:

wonder505 said:

His first band was Andre, Gayle, Matt, Dez and Bobby. Lisa replaced Gayle and then Wendy and BrownMark replaced Dez and Andre. Matt and Bobby are the only original Revolution members that were there from day one. In additoin to Bambi there was another song from his second album that has crossover appeal. I cant remember right now but it was guitar heavy. I'm not sure exactly when MarkBrown came on board or Lisa, but 1999 was released in 1983 and I don't think Wendy or mark was no board then. To say Prince would have been just another R&B act without the Revolution is just silly. I don't think Prince set out to be like everyone else.

[Edited 1/19/12 8:50am]

I agree. From the start, Prince never presented himself as just another R&B act, especially before W&L joined his band. If Bobby and Matt were there from the beginning then I could see them receiving more credit that W&L. Somehow it's not surprising that some fans only want to 'validate' Prince as an upscale musician, only when associated with W&L , as though his music/talent before they joined the band, wasn't already being well received.

I've kinda noticed that... plus Prince was always mixing genres going back to For You as we know, not everything on the album had a funk/disco/and-or R&B context ("I'm Yours" for example wouldn't be mistaken for a R&B joint lol). We forget about "Bambi" and "Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad" from Prince? Hardly R&B. He never wanted to be pigeonhold as an R&B act. I think some folks just wanna dismiss the 1978-1983 years and that suddenly when he adds Wendy (Lisa was already there after '79) and BrownMark, that's when they suddenly "help" Prince to the top. Please. I think even the Melvoins and Lisa would tell you themselves that Prince was already on his way even before they showed up.

ladygirl99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Ewwww such nastiness from a 'lady' of the night

Of course they were more than friends. Who doesn't acknowledge that, I said they were friends with benefits.

Was she engaged to Prince when he was dating Vanity? or before that when he was dating his pre fame love Susan Moonsie, is this when he was engaged to her? or actress Troy Breyer... Or was he engaged to her the same time he moved Susannah in his home and became engaged to her? Or was it when he met R U Legal Yet? Anna Fantastic and kept her in his bed until 18?

Mind games were played

Look just because you parade around your house in lace and 1 legged pants playing with sticks doesn't make you Sheila as you fantasize about Prince making love to you.

Things don't add up, You don't know shit about the actuality of their relationship either. When a man give another woman a ring and moves him into his house... mmmmm You were being played to help build a protege image of romance 1600 and wispers of stolen kisses of noon day rendezvous.

I love Sheila but it wasn't real.

And 4 all of the other women, they were different degrees of reality in Prince Erotic City

It was reportedly Sheila and Prince were engaged around Lovesexy tour. of course, at least I dont use history books to determine their relationship, life experiences doesnt always be in a book. So using Prince history books simply does not make you an expert on Prince's life experience and same goes his protegees, I know my role as a fan and at least I don't knock down other fans, including you, when you share your knowledge. I never said that I know because I admitted all along I am just a fan you are the one who insisted you know more and yet you are purely getting your information based on your theories and books and therefore why should I take people like you seriously. For you being a moderator, I expected more out of you as you simply at times failed to be subjective. You are Prince fan bookwarm, nothing more just wish you come to terms and learn how to play your role rather than spewing some knowledge and thinking you are some insider but you just reciting your facts from some third party history books okay. But at least you finally admitted Sheila E and Prince were somewhat more than just collegues, and once again you dont know if they were friends with benefits because AGAIN you wasnt there to confirm it. Susannah might had got that engagement ring and she and Prince lived together and wrote couple songs, but Sheila E was his ride or die chick before and after Susannah came to the picture. And on top of that Prince and Sheila E had a couple hits together with Love Bizarre and Erotic City. Susannah simply became a nonmutha factor after 1986 but he did gave her props to that song on Enanicpation and I seen Susannah was behind Prince ( I think I seen Lisa too) at 1995 American Music Awards when he refused to sang We Are the World Song and sucked that lollipop. I have to admit Susannah is likely has been in and out of Prince's life as a friend. With Sheila, I even had to called out (other fans did too) on Sheila E last year when she was going to put aside her schedule to catered to Prince that was before that strange rant on her twitter page about her and Prince wont do other concerts together in the future.

My issue with some fans is they claimed Susannah is the love of his life, maybe in that time period, but so are other women followed her and before she came along. Prince and Susannah may be got the house, but Prince had a child with Mayte and was his wife, Manuela was his wife too, and works with Sheila E to this day. I just have issues with fans who doesn't know their role and spreading shyt for their agendas. LOLOOLOLOL....................................

What about "The Glamourous Life"? I am not sure about the whole album, but suppossedly, he gave Sheila E the song because it was originally written for Vanity 6, but they've disbanded after Vanity left.

ladygirl99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Ewwww such nastiness from a 'lady' of the night

Of course they were more than friends. Who doesn't acknowledge that, I said they were friends with benefits.

Was she engaged to Prince when he was dating Vanity? or before that when he was dating his pre fame love Susan Moonsie, is this when he was engaged to her? or actress Troy Breyer... Or was he engaged to her the same time he moved Susannah in his home and became engaged to her? Or was it when he met R U Legal Yet? Anna Fantastic and kept her in his bed until 18?

Mind games were played

Look just because you parade around your house in lace and 1 legged pants playing with sticks doesn't make you Sheila as you fantasize about Prince making love to you.

Things don't add up, You don't know shit about the actuality of their relationship either. When a man give another woman a ring and moves him into his house... mmmmm You were being played to help build a protege image of romance 1600 and wispers of stolen kisses of noon day rendezvous.

I love Sheila but it wasn't real.

And 4 all of the other women, they were different degrees of reality in Prince Erotic City

It was reportedly Sheila and Prince were engaged around Lovesexy tour. of course, at least I dont use history books to determine their relationship, life experiences doesnt always be in a book. So using Prince history books simply does not make you an expert on Prince's life experience and same goes his protegees, I know my role as a fan and at least I don't knock down other fans, including you, when you share your knowledge. I never said that I know because I admitted all along I am just a fan you are the one who insisted you know more and yet you are purely getting your information based on your theories and books and therefore why should I take people like you seriously. For you being a moderator, I expected more out of you as you simply at times failed to be subjective. You are Prince fan bookwarm, nothing more just wish you come to terms and learn how to play your role rather than spewing some knowledge and thinking you are some insider but you just reciting your facts from some third party history books okay. But at least you finally admitted Sheila E and Prince were somewhat more than just collegues, and once again you dont know if they were friends with benefits because AGAIN you wasnt there to confirm it. Susannah might had got that engagement ring and she and Prince lived together and wrote couple songs, but Sheila E was his ride or die chick before and after Susannah came to the picture. And on top of that Prince and Sheila E had a couple hits together with Love Bizarre and Erotic City. Susannah simply became a nonmutha factor after 1986 but he did gave her props to that song on Enanicpation and I seen Susannah was behind Prince ( I think I seen Lisa too) at 1995 American Music Awards when he refused to sang We Are the World Song and sucked that lollipop. I have to admit Susannah is likely has been in and out of Prince's life as a friend. With Sheila, I even had to called out (other fans did too) on Sheila E last year when she was going to put aside her schedule to catered to Prince that was before that strange rant on her twitter page about her and Prince wont do other concerts together in the future.

My issue with some fans is they claimed Susannah is the love of his life, maybe in that time period, but so are other women followed her and before she came along. Prince and Susannah may be got the house, but Prince had a child with Mayte and was his wife, Manuela was his wife too, and works with Sheila E to this day. I just have issues with fans who doesn't know their role and spreading shyt for their agendas. LOLOOLOLOL....................................

You just are full of talk lol

I'm not saying I'm a Prince expert, but I just know and lived thru a lot of that as a fan, then years later more information being shed light on, why the put downs... I'm a huge PRince fan, sue me

I've ALWAYS said they were more than friends, I questioned the validity of the engagement

When have I not said they weren't lovers of sorts?

If he could be with Jill Vanity Susannah Susan Troy why not Sheila

Not to get it confused they were musical colleages more than lovers, She was a good protege

If St Paul didn't leave the Family that would have been another successful protege act under his belt,

props on what song on Emancipation?

In This Bed I Scream? Was about Lisa Wendy & Susannah yes

Fans who don't know whose role, you don't seem 2 know our shit just reading thru your post

You obviously have an agenda too sweet cakes

Yeah in 1988 Prince was seeing... and started dating Anna Fantastic and had her living in his house... He strung Sheila E along with the fantasy of love, but they were friends, I think she wanted more than he wanted from her.

It's ok

Matter of fact, you know what this revisionism is reminding me of? The Supremes. For a good decade or two or three, folks tried to say outloud that Florence Ballard and Mary Wilson could've easily led the Supremes to "crossover stardom" but forgetting that when compared to Diana Ross, they didn't have the kind of voice to become crossover and Diana's voice, determination and style was mainly the reason the Supremes became as successful as they did with Mary and Florence earning just similar success as her members. That Diana wouldn't have been anything without Mary and Florence but after seeing Florence's "Unsung", it just convinced me that Motown was right in picking Diana to lead the group.

So I don't know why some Prince/Revolution fans are expecting that same kind of analogy to defend their girls as a reason as to why Prince was embraced by WHITE PEOPLE when white people were starting to embrace him 1979 onwards. Yeah some white folks didn't dig him as much (The Rolling Stones concert tour ring any bell?) but he still had a bigger crossover audience than his contemporary Rick James did and by 1999 it can be argued Prince had already started to reach that plateau by then. Plus the hits on Purple Rain were mainly written by one man - Prince.

But in truth, Prince didn't "steal" anything. He don't need to steal. He already had it made before said subjects were even a factor in his life and career.

OldFriends4Sale said:

wonder505 said:

His first band was Andre, Gayle, Matt, Dez and Bobby. Lisa replaced Gayle and then Wendy and BrownMark replaced Dez and Andre. Matt and Bobby are the only original Revolution members that were there from day one. In additoin to Bambi there was another song from his second album that has crossover appeal. I cant remember right now but it was guitar heavy. I'm not sure exactly when MarkBrown came on board or Lisa, but 1999 was released in 1983 and I don't think Wendy or mark was no board then. To say Prince would have been just another R&B act without the Revolution is just silly. I don't think Prince set out to be like everyone else.

I was commenting on the use of the Revolution like it was a brand new group of people.

those that were in the Revolution [-Wendy] were in the band since Controversy 1980/81

No where in my post did I argue anything about crossover. I don't think Bambi gave him crossover success though. I don't know of any other rock heavy songs from the 2nd album

and Dirty Mind didn't have any. He had the New Wave sound to buffer him from having a RnB driven sound.

Bobby Z (1977) He played drums with Prince for 94East

Dr Fink (1978)

Brown Mark came on before COntroversy(1980/81)

Lisa Coleman came on before Dirty Mind(1979/80)

Dez Dickerson (1978)

Gayle Chapman(1978)

Wendy Melvoin(1982) Wendy is on Free & Irrisistable Bitch

Come on brother, you're making a statement without facts.

1999 was released in 1982

BrownMark was in the band for Controversy

Wendy was in the camp since Dirty Mind. Wendy & Prince became friends back then.
Lisa moved to Minneapolis 1st, She and Prince even lived together, she talked about doing his laundry with hers and making him sandwiches.

Prince never wanted to labelled an RnB act I agree

and He told the producers he didn't want to be marketed as a black artist

But even with a few rock songs he could have still be pigeonheld as an RnB artist

It's partially why he had to shake things up for the 3rd album, the Rebels project help with that where the delved more into hard rock sounds. With Dez Prince started to amp up the shows, something that Dez brought to the table, alot of the songs they performed live turned into rock songs like Dirty Mind, All the Critics. Shows became heavy hitting and steamy

Controversy group

Dr Fink Brown Mark Bobby Z Prince Dez Dickerson Lisa Coleman

1999 the noituloveR

BrownMark BobbyZ Prince Lisa Coleman Dr Fink Dez Dickerson

Purple Rain the Revolution

BrownMark Prince Bobby Z Dr Fink Lisa Coleman Wendy Melvoin

First of all i'm a female. Your post still underscores the fact that Prince is still the one behind Prince. I never got the impression that he wanted to represent himself as an R&B artist and I don't believe that Warner Bros had that in mind for him either. I highly doubt that it was the Revolution who convinced him to not be an R&B artist, I believe that was never Prince's goal. Now did they're collaboration help in him cross over appeal with great songs yes, were they only reason NO. Lastly, if they were sooo instrumental of being the only factor for Prince's success, I would think that it would be apparent in their own studio release and I definately don't hear that from ANY of their cds. Especially Wendy and Lisa's music.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

ladygirl99 said:

It was reportedly Sheila and Prince were engaged around Lovesexy tour. of course, at least I dont use history books to determine their relationship, life experiences doesnt always be in a book. So using Prince history books simply does not make you an expert on Prince's life experience and same goes his protegees, I know my role as a fan and at least I don't knock down other fans, including you, when you share your knowledge. I never said that I know because I admitted all along I am just a fan you are the one who insisted you know more and yet you are purely getting your information based on your theories and books and therefore why should I take people like you seriously. For you being a moderator, I expected more out of you as you simply at times failed to be subjective. You are Prince fan bookwarm, nothing more just wish you come to terms and learn how to play your role rather than spewing some knowledge and thinking you are some insider but you just reciting your facts from some third party history books okay. But at least you finally admitted Sheila E and Prince were somewhat more than just collegues, and once again you dont know if they were friends with benefits because AGAIN you wasnt there to confirm it. Susannah might had got that engagement ring and she and Prince lived together and wrote couple songs, but Sheila E was his ride or die chick before and after Susannah came to the picture. And on top of that Prince and Sheila E had a couple hits together with Love Bizarre and Erotic City. Susannah simply became a nonmutha factor after 1986 but he did gave her props to that song on Enanicpation and I seen Susannah was behind Prince ( I think I seen Lisa too) at 1995 American Music Awards when he refused to sang We Are the World Song and sucked that lollipop. I have to admit Susannah is likely has been in and out of Prince's life as a friend. With Sheila, I even had to called out (other fans did too) on Sheila E last year when she was going to put aside her schedule to catered to Prince that was before that strange rant on her twitter page about her and Prince wont do other concerts together in the future.

My issue with some fans is they claimed Susannah is the love of his life, maybe in that time period, but so are other women followed her and before she came along. Prince and Susannah may be got the house, but Prince had a child with Mayte and was his wife, Manuela was his wife too, and works with Sheila E to this day. I just have issues with fans who doesn't know their role and spreading shyt for their agendas. LOLOOLOLOL....................................

What about "The Glamourous Life"? I am not sure about the whole album, but suppossedly, he gave Sheila E the song because it was originally written for Vanity 6, but they've disbanded after Vanity left.

Definately the Glamorous Life

Yeah I wish Vanity 6 would have had a few more albums, that 2nd album would have been nice with all the songs that were 2 go on it. And Vanity was a good frontman with a good chemistry between her and Susan & Brenda

Sex Shooter Manic Monday Take Me With U (i think that originally was supposed to be on that album) Glamorous Life Vibrator Blue Limousine A Million Miles 17 Days... that would have been a hot album

But I do like Sheila E's Glamorous Life

wonder505 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I was commenting on the use of the Revolution like it was a brand new group of people.

those that were in the Revolution [-Wendy] were in the band since Controversy 1980/81

No where in my post did I argue anything about crossover. I don't think Bambi gave him crossover success though. I don't know of any other rock heavy songs from the 2nd album

and Dirty Mind didn't have any. He had the New Wave sound to buffer him from having a RnB driven sound.

Bobby Z (1977) He played drums with Prince for 94East

Dr Fink (1978)

Brown Mark came on before COntroversy(1980/81)

Lisa Coleman came on before Dirty Mind(1979/80)

Dez Dickerson (1978)

Gayle Chapman(1978)

Wendy Melvoin(1982) Wendy is on Free & Irrisistable Bitch

Come on brother, you're making a statement without facts.

1999 was released in 1982

BrownMark was in the band for Controversy

Wendy was in the camp since Dirty Mind. Wendy & Prince became friends back then.
Lisa moved to Minneapolis 1st, She and Prince even lived together, she talked about doing his laundry with hers and making him sandwiches.

Prince never wanted to labelled an RnB act I agree

and He told the producers he didn't want to be marketed as a black artist

But even with a few rock songs he could have still be pigeonheld as an RnB artist

It's partially why he had to shake things up for the 3rd album, the Rebels project help with that where the delved more into hard rock sounds. With Dez Prince started to amp up the shows, something that Dez brought to the table, alot of the songs they performed live turned into rock songs like Dirty Mind, All the Critics. Shows became heavy hitting and steamy

First of all i'm a female. Your post still underscores the fact that Prince is still the one behind Prince. I never got the impression that he wanted to represent himself as an R&B artist and I don't believe that Warner Bros had that in mind for him either. I highly doubt that it was the Revolution who convinced him to not be an R&B artist, I believe that was never Prince's goal. Now did they're collaboration help in him cross over appeal with great songs yes, were they only reason NO. Lastly, if they were sooo instrumental of being the only factor for Prince's success, I would think that it would be apparent in their own studio release and I definately don't hear that from ANY of their cds. Especially Wendy and Lisa's music.

Sorry sister.

I never disagree that Prince is behind Prince, he had some good people that dedicated themselves to his vision. Why do you continue on about being a R&B artist? He told the producers from the start he did not want to be marketed as a black artist.

But before we move on, you need to get your princeology straight, your talking about band members that you don't even know when they were in the band? When did u become a fan?

I never said they were the only reason, beating that to the ground aren't you.

Have U heard W&L's first 2 albums? YEAH it's sounds like similar Prince music, but I take you haven't. Cause all of your info is based on bits n pieces of stuff that you haven't even looked into

Do a google search on a song called Waterfalls by Wendy & Lisa

Prince was very good at pulling the best out of those in his band and protege bands, it's why lots of fans love that 1980's period. Morris Vanity 6 Sheila Dez Bobby Z Matt Lisa Cat Wendy BrownMark Mico Eric Atlanta Bliss Jill JOnes even Apollonia

Timmy84 said:

Matter of fact, you know what this revisionism is reminding me of? The Supremes. For a good decade or two or three, folks tried to say outloud that Florence Ballard and Mary Wilson could've easily led the Supremes to "crossover stardom" but forgetting that when compared to Diana Ross, they didn't have the kind of voice to become crossover and Diana's voice, determination and style was mainly the reason the Supremes became as successful as they did with Mary and Florence earning just similar success as her members. That Diana wouldn't have been anything without Mary and Florence but after seeing Florence's "Unsung", it just convinced me that Motown was right in picking Diana to lead the group.

So I don't know why some Prince/Revolution fans are expecting that same kind of analogy to defend their girls as a reason as to why Prince was embraced by WHITE PEOPLE when white people were starting to embrace him 1979 onwards. Yeah some white folks didn't dig him as much (The Rolling Stones concert tour ring any bell?) but he still had a bigger crossover audience than his contemporary Rick James did and by 1999 it can be argued Prince had already started to reach that plateau by then. Plus the hits on Purple Rain were mainly written by one man - Prince.

But in truth, Prince didn't "steal" anything. He don't need to steal. He already had it made before said subjects were even a factor in his life and career.

I don't know man, Rick James has another story lol

There were other times were he might have a starting point on a song and then midway through a line he might have said 'here's something, what do you hear off of that?' I might bounce something off of what he gave and he might bounce something off of me. And at the end of the song, I might be hard pressed to say what was mine and what was his - it really was a case of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. Those were the circumstances that were more intriguing to me, because it was matter of us trying to get into each other's heads. He had that relationship with other people, Sheila E particularly and of course Wendy & Lisa. From a conceptual basis, Wendy & Lisa were the two musicians in any of his bands who were able to tap into him on some subliminal level - they really did have a musical relationship that was closer than with anyone that he worked with.

My relationship was a little bit more from a player's standpoint. Because of the tremendous drummer and percussionist that Sheila is, [it meant] that relationship was very important. Some of the more interesting and more enjoyable music from my point of view was when Sheila, Prince, Wendy & Lisa and I would just go into the studio and just jam. I've got quite a few tapes of sessions like that. Purely ad lib, instrumental sessions, where we'd go in and just make a lot of music. None of it was going to get released; it was for our own enjoyment. Wendy & Lisa don't really come from a jazz background [but] they shared in the ability to be very spontaneous. Our ability to go in and spontaneously play some music and at the end of an hour come out with some music that at least we could say has some kind of musical validity and continuity. It may not have the harmonic sophistication of a straight-up jazz band, but the ethic was very similar. When Prince wanted to be spontaneous, he could be very spontaneous!

TLM: Which are the most memorable tunes that you recorded with Prince and were released?

EL: Some of my favourite Prince songs are the songs that I had nothing to do with. There's no one Prince album that I'm going to listen to from beginning to end without skipping tracks. One remarkable thing about Prince is that he's probably one of the most eclectic artists in all of pop music. The songs that I find myself going back to more often are what Alan and I refer to as his "boutique songs." The greatest example to me is the "Ballad of Dorothy Parker" [on the Sign 'O' The Timesalbum] - that's just one of my favourite Prince songs. Interestingly enough that's the song where he gave me the opportunity to go in and do a complete horn arrangement on, which he didn't use anything from. That song was just so perfect without anything else. I happen to love "Anotherloverholenyohead" from theParade album. I love Wendy and Lisa's song, "Mountains." [also on Parade] There's a song which I don't know has ever been released. It was a song of Wendy and Lisa's and it's known by various titles [including] "Welcome To The Rat Race," but was actually called "Life Is Like Looking For A Penny In A Large Room With No Light," It was Sheila, Wendy, Lisa, Prince, myself and a couple of horns and that was one my favourite songs. I liked "Girls & Boys." [Parade]. "Strange Relationship" [Sign 'O' The Times] I absolutely love.

OldFriends4Sale said:

wonder505 said:

First of all i'm a female. Your post still underscores the fact that Prince is still the one behind Prince. I never got the impression that he wanted to represent himself as an R&B artist and I don't believe that Warner Bros had that in mind for him either. I highly doubt that it was the Revolution who convinced him to not be an R&B artist, I believe that was never Prince's goal. Now did they're collaboration help in him cross over appeal with great songs yes, were they only reason NO. Lastly, if they were sooo instrumental of being the only factor for Prince's success, I would think that it would be apparent in their own studio release and I definately don't hear that from ANY of their cds. Especially Wendy and Lisa's music.

Sorry sister.

I never disagree that Prince is behind Prince, he had some good people that dedicated themselves to his vision. Why do you continue on about being a R&B artist? He told the producers from the start he did not want to be marketed as a black artist.

But before we move on, you need to get your princeology straight, your talking about band members that you don't even know when they were in the band? When did u become a fan?

I never said they were the only reason, beating that to the ground aren't you.

Have U heard W&L's first 2 albums? YEAH it's sounds like similar Prince music, but I take you haven't. Cause all of your info is based on bits n pieces of stuff that you haven't even looked into

Do a google search on a song called Waterfalls by Wendy & Lisa

Prince was very good at pulling the best out of those in his band and protege bands, it's why lots of fans love that 1980's period. Morris Vanity 6 Sheila Dez Bobby Z Matt Lisa Cat Wendy BrownMark Mico Eric Atlanta Bliss Jill JOnes even Apollonia

oh i'm sorry, perhaps i'm not as obsessed in Prince world as you are that i don't know every little detail about who joined when. so apologies for not being as obsessed. I became a fan in 1984, during the revolution years at that. and why assume that I never listened to any of W&L's music. I listened to mostly all associated artist and especially the early ones just to support but became frustrated when the music just got blander and blander and not very listenable and I got tired of wasting my money. I gave most of them away. and to you're stating in bold. i guess i can rest my case as we seem to agree that alone answers the title of this thread.

[Edited 1/19/12 11:58am]

wonder505 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Sorry sister.

I never disagree that Prince is behind Prince, he had some good people that dedicated themselves to his vision. Why do you continue on about being a R&B artist? He told the producers from the start he did not want to be marketed as a black artist.

But before we move on, you need to get your princeology straight, your talking about band members that you don't even know when they were in the band? When did u become a fan?

I never said they were the only reason, beating that to the ground aren't you.

Have U heard W&L's first 2 albums? YEAH it's sounds like similar Prince music, but I take you haven't. Cause all of your info is based on bits n pieces of stuff that you haven't even looked into

Do a google search on a song called Waterfalls by Wendy & Lisa

Prince was very good at pulling the best out of those in his band and protege bands, it's why lots of fans love that 1980's period. Morris Vanity 6 Sheila Dez Bobby Z Matt Lisa Cat Wendy BrownMark Mico Eric Atlanta Bliss Jill JOnes even Apollonia

oh i'm sorry, perhaps i'm not as obsessed in Prince world as you are that i don't know every little detail about who joined when. so apologies for not being as obsessed. I became a fan in 1984, during the revolution years at that. and why assume that I never listened to any of W&L's music. I listened to mostly all associated artist and especially the early ones just to support but became frustrated when the music just got blander and blander and not very listenable and I got tired of wasting my money. I gave most of them away. and to you're stating in bold. i guess i can rest my case as we seem to agree that alone answers the title of this thread.

lol it's not about being obsessed most of the .org members know this stuff

But your posting about stuff without even knowing some basic stuff and continuing a debate like you were right, Outside of the RnB & Crossover stuff, is a bit off, Prince almost always was 'crossover' he just wasn't huge and mainstream. He wanted Maintsteam, it started to happen during 1999 and hit big for Purple Rain.

So if you listened to their stuff how can you say their music doesn't sound like 'that' music, when it did. Now they do different stuff even Prince's music no longer sounds the same...

OldFriends4Sale said:

wonder505 said:

oh i'm sorry, perhaps i'm not as obsessed in Prince world as you are that i don't know every little detail about who joined when. so apologies for not being as obsessed. I became a fan in 1984, during the revolution years at that. and why assume that I never listened to any of W&L's music. I listened to mostly all associated artist and especially the early ones just to support but became frustrated when the music just got blander and blander and not very listenable and I got tired of wasting my money. I gave most of them away. and to you're stating in bold. i guess i can rest my case as we seem to agree that alone answers the title of this thread.

lol it's not about being obsessed most of the .org members know this stuff

But your posting about stuff without even knowing some basic stuff and continuing a debate like you were right, Outside of the RnB & Crossover stuff, is a bit off, Prince almost always was 'crossover' he just wasn't huge and mainstream. He wanted Maintsteam, it started to happen during 1999 and hit big for Purple Rain.

So if you listened to their stuff how can you say their music doesn't sound like 'that' music, when it did. Now they do different stuff even Prince's music no longer sounds the same...

The reason I stated he's R&B, though Prince disagrees is because that's how the music labeling industry labels black artists, especially when they start out. He started out on black radio, and that's how I first remembered Prince.

OldFriends4Sale said:

wonder505 said:

oh i'm sorry, perhaps i'm not as obsessed in Prince world as you are that i don't know every little detail about who joined when. so apologies for not being as obsessed. I became a fan in 1984, during the revolution years at that. and why assume that I never listened to any of W&L's music. I listened to mostly all associated artist and especially the early ones just to support but became frustrated when the music just got blander and blander and not very listenable and I got tired of wasting my money. I gave most of them away. and to you're stating in bold. i guess i can rest my case as we seem to agree that alone answers the title of this thread.

lol it's not about being obsessed most of the .org members know this stuff

But your posting about stuff without even knowing some basic stuff and continuing a debate like you were right, Outside of the RnB & Crossover stuff, is a bit off, Prince almost always was 'crossover' he just wasn't huge and mainstream. He wanted Maintsteam, it started to happen during 1999 and hit big for Purple Rain.

So if you listened to their stuff how can you say their music doesn't sound like 'that' music, when it did. Now they do different stuff even Prince's music no longer sounds the same...

So because Wendy and Lisa's work "sounded" like Prince's meant it was just as good and it supposed to be received as enjoyable by everyone? If that was so why wasn't the reception the same as it was for Prince from the beginning of his career?The Purple Rain movie helped Prince cross over into the mainstream and reason why anyone even came to know who Wendy and Lisa were. I provide my opinion just like you and everybody else. I believe you obviously in the camp that gives Wendy and Lisa much credit for Prince's success. I believe Prince would have been successful with or without them. I brought up R&B because another poster claim without the Revolution Prince would have been another R&B act.

[Edited 1/19/12 12:49pm]

Some of yall would credit them dirty draws he wore on the Dirty Mind cover as Wendy and Lisa's.

Prince is talented. Wendy and List are talented. Would they have become popular without him...probably not. They would be members of someone else's band. Would he still be popular without them? Given his star was rising anyway, probably. They all were at the same place at the same time making music and influencing each other as musicians who work together do. Would his output be the same without them, probably not, but it would have still been good none the less.

While I love W&L, they were only with him for a very small fraction of his career (I know I know it was a sort of pinnacle and turning point and the creativity was very high at the time). He also created a lot of the music or started it without any help and they would help flesh it out, but it was still his baby that he birthed.

rdhull said:

Some of yall would credit them dirty draws he wore on the Dirty Mind cover as Wendy and Lisa's.

Timmy84 said:

2elijah said:

I agree. From the start, Prince never presented himself as just another R&B act, especially before W&L joined his band. If Bobby and Matt were there from the beginning then I could see them receiving more credit that W&L. Somehow it's not surprising that some fans only want to 'validate' Prince as an upscale musician, only when associated with W&L , as though his music/talent before they joined the band, wasn't already being well received.

I've kinda noticed that... plus Prince was always mixing genres going back to For You as we know, not everything on the album had a funk/disco/and-or R&B context ("I'm Yours" for example wouldn't be mistaken for a R&B joint lol). We forget about "Bambi" and "Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad" from Prince? Hardly R&B. He never wanted to be pigeonhold as an R&B act. I think some folks just wanna dismiss the 1978-1983 years and that suddenly when he adds Wendy (Lisa was already there after '79) and BrownMark, that's when they suddenly "help" Prince to the top. Please. I think even the Melvoins and Lisa would tell you themselves that Prince was already on his way even before they showed up.

Co-sign.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

What about "The Glamourous Life"? I am not sure about the whole album, but suppossedly, he gave Sheila E the song because it was originally written for Vanity 6, but they've disbanded after Vanity left.

Definately the Glamorous Life

Yeah I wish Vanity 6 would have had a few more albums, that 2nd album would have been nice with all the songs that were 2 go on it. And Vanity was a good frontman with a good chemistry between her and Susan & Brenda

Sex Shooter Manic Monday Take Me With U (i think that originally was supposed to be on that album) Glamorous Life Vibrator Blue Limousine A Million Miles 17 Days... that would have been a hot album

But I do like Sheila E's Glamorous Life

Vanity was suppossed to be in the 'Purple Rain' movie, I remember.