Beautifulstarr123 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Definately the Glamorous Life

Yeah I wish Vanity 6 would have had a few more albums, that 2nd album would have been nice with all the songs that were 2 go on it. And Vanity was a good frontman with a good chemistry between her and Susan & Brenda

Sex Shooter Manic Monday Take Me With U (i think that originally was supposed to be on that album) Glamorous Life Vibrator Blue Limousine A Million Miles 17 Days... that would have been a hot album

But I do like Sheila E's Glamorous Life

Vanity was suppossed to be in the 'Purple Rain' movie, I remember.

Yes, the original script has her written in it

There is even a Sex Shooter outtake with Vanity 6 and Prince, more 'wilder' and Vanity is doing her thang,

hhhhdmt said:

alexandernevamind said:

Ahmir “?uestlove” Thompson found himself in the hot seat on Bravo’s Watch What Happens Live. WhenAndy Cohen asked Questlove if he had ever not been credited for his contribution to an album, he said Prince hadn’t credited him on Prince’s One Night Onlyalbum. Apparently, Thompson sat in on drums for a song and didn’t receive any recognition.

I REST MY CASE!..lol

and that's your evidence?

You have already been proven wrong on the Kiss part, so i am not going to go there.

Your claim was that Prince would not have written the purple rain music without the revolution. His own band members have said he wrote songs like When Doves Cry and The Beautiful Ones without anyone else. WDC was the biggest hit on the album.

Further none of his band members has ever suggested that the majority of his work was written by others. No one disputes that the vast majority of the music was Prince and Prince only's

Lastly, Wendy and Lisa were competent musicians but to say they were the reason for Prince's commercial success is comical. Wendy and Lisa never wrote a big hit in their careers, never wrote a single big hit for anyone. Prince regularly wrote big hits for other artits.

Wendy and Lisa were good backup musicians who co wrote a few good songs with Prince. They were not the godesses of music that revolution fanboys make them out to be. Nor did they write the majority of his material.

Possessed: The Rise & Fall of Prince p 89

"Can you come out to LA for the weekend?" Prince asked. "I've got some stuff for you to do." Rivkin agreed, packed two pairs of pants , and booked a flight. When he arrived the next day, Prince greeted him boisterously. "Oh, by the way, you've got to be here for a couple of months!" he exclaimed. "We have a Mazarati album to do."

A few days later after Rivkin's arrival, Prince took a break from his own work and poked his head into Studio 2, where Mazarati was working. When one of the band members asked off-handedly if he had any more songs for them, Prince paged Susan Rogers over the studio loudspeaker; when she arrived a few moments later, they disappeared into a room with an acoustic guitar and a four-track cassette recorder.

As he waited for Rogers to prepare the equipment, Prince tapped impatiently on the body of the accoustic guitar. "Rolling?" he asked. She quickly responded affirmatively, and Prince began briskly strumming a basic twelve-bar blues pattern and singing mournfully in his lower register. The song, "Kiss," was completed in just minutes, and Prince emerged with the tape. "Here, finish this off," he said to Rivkin and Brown(Mark). "Do what you want with this song!"

After Prince left, the group caucused. Tony Christian, Mazarati's rhythm guitarist, was not impressed. "Nobody liked the song," he recalled. Rivkin wasn't enthralled by "Kiss" either, but the song's blues orientation triggered ideas in his mind. He and (Brown)Mark began reconstructing it, first creating a foundation of drums that made the piece pepier and more danceable. Rivkin added an infectious piano riff borrowed from an obsure Bo Diddly song called "Hey Man." He and Coke Johnson, another engineer present, used a studio trick that linked the acoustic guitar part to the hi-hat cymbal, making it follow the same jagged rhythm. Singer Terry Casey then added his own rendition of Prince's words, and Rivkin came up with an idea for a backing vocal part based on the song "Sweet Nothings" by pop singer Brenda Lee.

Working through the night, theycompleted the song by about nine a.m., when the band members went home as Rivkin and Johnson prepared a mix. When Prince stopped by around noon, Rivkin gave him a cassette. Intrigued, he took a portable boom box out to the basketball court in the center of the complex and blasted it. "He went ballistic," remembered (Coke)Johnson. Prince could not believe this his languid blues number had been changed into something so funky an energetic. "This is too good for ou guys!" Prince shouted. "I'm taking it back."

But after this initial reaction, Prince felt guilty about poaching the band's work. Huddling with engineers Rogers and Peggy McCreary, he asked their opinions. Although McCreary felt Mazarati should keep the song, Rogers cast the tie-breaking vote in favor of Prince because she felt "Kiss" would get more exposure on his album.

With this resolved, Prince took the master tape and cut his own vocals (this time using his falsetto), replacing Terry Casey's. He also added a James Brown -style guitar lick at the beginning of the song and during pauses that recurred at the end of each chorus. Finally, he tweaked the mix, dropping out the bass guitar. He was finished in a little over an hour;"Kiss" had completed it's transformation from a Prince song, to a Mazarati song, and back to a Prince song. It would eventually reach No. 1 on Billboard's Pop Singles Chart as the first single from Parade.

Not surprisingly, given its genesis, credit for the song was contested. Although Prince gave David Rivkin an "arrangement" credit for the song, the rest of the credit states that "Kiss" was "produced, composed and written by Prince and the Revolution." In an apologetic call to Rivkin, Prince said that Warner Bros. would not allow him to give anyone other than himself a producer's billing. Rivkin- while he certainly didn't accept this flimsy explaination - remained philosophical about the episode and concluded, in the end, that Prince's modest additions to the piece made it much better.

Mark Brown also claimed that he was in essence the producer of "Kiss," and remains chagrine that Rivkin, rather than he, received the arrangement credit. Brown says he gave Prince and his managers numerous opportunities to compensate him for his contributions to the song, but no action was ever taken.

(the way we hear it live on the Parade tours/shows with the bass is how it was originally recorded by BrownMark with the bass line)

OldFriends4Sale said:

ladygirl99 said:

It was reportedly Sheila and Prince were engaged around Lovesexy tour. of course, at least I dont use history books to determine their relationship, life experiences doesnt always be in a book. So using Prince history books simply does not make you an expert on Prince's life experience and same goes his protegees, I know my role as a fan and at least I don't knock down other fans, including you, when you share your knowledge. I never said that I know because I admitted all along I am just a fan you are the one who insisted you know more and yet you are purely getting your information based on your theories and books and therefore why should I take people like you seriously. For you being a moderator, I expected more out of you as you simply at times failed to be subjective. You are Prince fan bookwarm, nothing more just wish you come to terms and learn how to play your role rather than spewing some knowledge and thinking you are some insider but you just reciting your facts from some third party history books okay. But at least you finally admitted Sheila E and Prince were somewhat more than just collegues, and once again you dont know if they were friends with benefits because AGAIN you wasnt there to confirm it. Susannah might had got that engagement ring and she and Prince lived together and wrote couple songs, but Sheila E was his ride or die chick before and after Susannah came to the picture. And on top of that Prince and Sheila E had a couple hits together with Love Bizarre and Erotic City. Susannah simply became a nonmutha factor after 1986 but he did gave her props to that song on Enanicpation and I seen Susannah was behind Prince ( I think I seen Lisa too) at 1995 American Music Awards when he refused to sang We Are the World Song and sucked that lollipop. I have to admit Susannah is likely has been in and out of Prince's life as a friend. With Sheila, I even had to called out (other fans did too) on Sheila E last year when she was going to put aside her schedule to catered to Prince that was before that strange rant on her twitter page about her and Prince wont do other concerts together in the future.

My issue with some fans is they claimed Susannah is the love of his life, maybe in that time period, but so are other women followed her and before she came along. Prince and Susannah may be got the house, but Prince had a child with Mayte and was his wife, Manuela was his wife too, and works with Sheila E to this day. I just have issues with fans who doesn't know their role and spreading shyt for their agendas. LOLOOLOLOL....................................

You just are full of talk lol

I'm not saying I'm a Prince expert, but I just know and lived thru a lot of that as a fan, then years later more information being shed light on, why the put downs... I'm a huge PRince fan, sue me

I've ALWAYS said they were more than friends, I questioned the validity of the engagement

When have I not said they weren't lovers of sorts?

If he could be with Jill Vanity Susannah Susan Troy why not Sheila

Not to get it confused they were musical colleages more than lovers, She was a good protege

If St Paul didn't leave the Family that would have been another successful protege act under his belt,

props on what song on Emancipation?

In This Bed I Scream? Was about Lisa Wendy & Susannah yes

Fans who don't know whose role, you don't seem 2 know our shit just reading thru your post

You obviously have an agenda too sweet cakes

Yeah in 1988 Prince was seeing... and started dating Anna Fantastic and had her living in his house... He strung Sheila E along with the fantasy of love, but they were friends, I think she wanted more than he wanted from her.

It's ok

No boo boo you ARE the one who is running crap thinking you are some insider just because you memorized out some unofficial 1980s unauthorised books LOLOLOL. Give it up, game is over, kid and do a better job of maintain your role as a fan.

I share my knowledge based on interviews and my experience with Prince former protegees over the years online, I dont have to prove anything to you. I got a life and I dont spend my time obssessing with Prince nor Wendy and Lisa, like you, and at the end of the day who cares that I don't know every since fact about Prince's life and recordings, as long as Prince continues to be blessed with God by bring me some entertainment years to come , its all good. Either you take what I said is true or not, but quit with the childish arrogant games thinking you know all, and move the hell along no need to reject other people information unless you were part of Prince camp.

What agenda? I maintain that even I am a Prince fan, I dont kiss his, nor Wendy and Lisa, Sheila E as I stated again they helped Prince musically more during the 80s but based on my opinion of his hit songs (which he did alone and it was confirmed by his former band members) he would still have success without them. Come again....?

[Edited 1/19/12 20:50pm]

Don't all artists 'steal' from somebody?

Prince exploded on the scene not because of his material in Purple Rain, but because of sex.

I'm not sure if people recall that period, but all that was ever mentioned with Prince at that

time was his sexual material or his provacativeness....it was never the music.

Prince had to prove his musical abilities as the process went on. So, talent had little to

do with his fame. Sustainability, yes...fame, no.

Either way, Prince singlehandedly built his empire--not his proteges.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

ladygirl99 said:

It was reportedly Sheila and Prince were engaged around Lovesexy tour. of course, at least I dont use history books to determine their relationship, life experiences doesnt always be in a book. So using Prince history books simply does not make you an expert on Prince's life experience and same goes his protegees, I know my role as a fan and at least I don't knock down other fans, including you, when you share your knowledge. I never said that I know because I admitted all along I am just a fan you are the one who insisted you know more and yet you are purely getting your information based on your theories and books and therefore why should I take people like you seriously. For you being a moderator, I expected more out of you as you simply at times failed to be subjective. You are Prince fan bookwarm, nothing more just wish you come to terms and learn how to play your role rather than spewing some knowledge and thinking you are some insider but you just reciting your facts from some third party history books okay. But at least you finally admitted Sheila E and Prince were somewhat more than just collegues, and once again you dont know if they were friends with benefits because AGAIN you wasnt there to confirm it. Susannah might had got that engagement ring and she and Prince lived together and wrote couple songs, but Sheila E was his ride or die chick before and after Susannah came to the picture. And on top of that Prince and Sheila E had a couple hits together with Love Bizarre and Erotic City. Susannah simply became a nonmutha factor after 1986 but he did gave her props to that song on Enanicpation and I seen Susannah was behind Prince ( I think I seen Lisa too) at 1995 American Music Awards when he refused to sang We Are the World Song and sucked that lollipop. I have to admit Susannah is likely has been in and out of Prince's life as a friend. With Sheila, I even had to called out (other fans did too) on Sheila E last year when she was going to put aside her schedule to catered to Prince that was before that strange rant on her twitter page about her and Prince wont do other concerts together in the future.

My issue with some fans is they claimed Susannah is the love of his life, maybe in that time period, but so are other women followed her and before she came along. Prince and Susannah may be got the house, but Prince had a child with Mayte and was his wife, Manuela was his wife too, and works with Sheila E to this day. I just have issues with fans who doesn't know their role and spreading shyt for their agendas. LOLOOLOLOL....................................

What about "The Glamourous Life"? I am not sure about the whole album, but suppossedly, he gave Sheila E the song because it was originally written for Vanity 6, but they've disbanded after Vanity left.

I was talking about more about duet. Glamorous Life, Sheila E did most of the singing but I know TGL is Prince's baby. Maybe I should had been clear about my previous post.

imago said:

Don't all artists 'steal' from somebody?

Prince exploded on the scene not because of his material in Purple Rain, but because of sex.

I'm not sure if people recall that period, but all that was ever mentioned with Prince at that

time was his sexual material or his provacativeness....it was never the music.

Prince had to prove his musical abilities as the process went on. So, talent had little to

do with his fame. Sustainability, yes...fame, no.

Either way, Prince singlehandedly built his empire--not his proteges.

Sex and shock value.

Timmy84 said:

imago said:

Don't all artists 'steal' from somebody?

Prince exploded on the scene not because of his material in Purple Rain, but because of sex.

I'm not sure if people recall that period, but all that was ever mentioned with Prince at that

time was his sexual material or his provacativeness....it was never the music.

Prince had to prove his musical abilities as the process went on. So, talent had little to

do with his fame. Sustainability, yes...fame, no.

Either way, Prince singlehandedly built his empire--not his proteges.

Sex and shock value.

I mean, he's no Lady Gaga, but I think he's doing pretty good.

ladygirl99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

You just are full of talk lol

I'm not saying I'm a Prince expert, but I just know and lived thru a lot of that as a fan, then years later more information being shed light on, why the put downs... I'm a huge PRince fan, sue me

I've ALWAYS said they were more than friends, I questioned the validity of the engagement

When have I not said they weren't lovers of sorts?

If he could be with Jill Vanity Susannah Susan Troy why not Sheila

Not to get it confused they were musical colleages more than lovers, She was a good protege

If St Paul didn't leave the Family that would have been another successful protege act under his belt,

props on what song on Emancipation?

In This Bed I Scream? Was about Lisa Wendy & Susannah yes

Fans who don't know whose role, you don't seem 2 know our shit just reading thru your post

You obviously have an agenda too sweet cakes

Yeah in 1988 Prince was seeing... and started dating Anna Fantastic and had her living in his house... He strung Sheila E along with the fantasy of love, but they were friends, I think she wanted more than he wanted from her.

It's ok

No boo boo you ARE the one who is running crap thinking you are some insider just because you memorized out some unofficial 1980s unauthorised books LOLOLOL. Give it up, game is over, kid and do a better job of maintain your role as a fan.

I share my knowledge based on interviews and my experience with Prince former protegees over the years online, I dont have to prove anything to you. I got a life and I dont spend my time obssessing with Prince nor Wendy and Lisa, like you, and at the end of the day who cares that I don't know every since fact about Prince's life and recordings, as long as Prince continues to be blessed with God by bring me some entertainment years to come , its all good. Either you take what I said is true or not, but quit with the childish arrogant games thinking you know all, and move the hell along no need to reject other people information unless you were part of Prince camp.

What agenda? I maintain that even I am a Prince fan, I dont kiss his, nor Wendy and Lisa, Sheila E as I stated again they helped Prince musically more during the 80s but based on my opinion of his hit songs (which he did alone and it was confirmed by his former band members) he would still have success without them. Come again....?

[Edited 1/19/12 20:50pm]

give it up miss ashy toes

imago said:

Don't all artists 'steal' from somebody?

Prince exploded on the scene not because of his material in Purple Rain, but because of sex.

I'm not sure if people recall that period, but all that was ever mentioned with Prince at that

time was his sexual material or his provacativeness....it was never the music.

Prince had to prove his musical abilities as the process went on. So, talent had little to

do with his fame. Sustainability, yes...fame, no.

Either way, Prince singlehandedly built his empire--not his proteges.

I don't think all artists steal from others

I disagree, the material in Purple Rain before the movie even hit blew it up.

It's almost like saying "Prince isn't really talented, he just uses sex"

No, 1999 Little Red Corvette and a few other songs got him bigger attention

17 Day, When Doves Cry Let's Go Crazy were crankin the radio stations before PR the movie hit

Most reviews: fans & movie/music critics say nothing about "sex" being the winner for PR. Being a 'rock film' Sex Drugs & Rock n Roll it has to be in there

It's the music and performance scenes that stand out and get the applause 1st and foremost

then Morris & Jeromes comedic scenes

Prince is the puppet master, but he didn't singlehandely build his empire (that's not historically or literally possible) he had the best & right people in his camp at the time. the writer and director of Purple Rain, his band, the Time esp Morris Jerome Jesse Big Chick and all those people in the film who were actually real life people in Prince's life even Billy Sparks, his engineers Susan Rogers & Coke Johnson, David Rivkin, and the other proteges, they had to be able to see the vision Prince had and put themselves into character while being themselves and execute which is why the 1980's proteges were the best

OldFriends4Sale said:

imago said:

Don't all artists 'steal' from somebody?

Prince exploded on the scene not because of his material in Purple Rain, but because of sex.

I'm not sure if people recall that period, but all that was ever mentioned with Prince at that

time was his sexual material or his provacativeness....it was never the music.

Prince had to prove his musical abilities as the process went on. So, talent had little to

do with his fame. Sustainability, yes...fame, no.

Either way, Prince singlehandedly built his empire--not his proteges.

I don't think all artists steal from others

I disagree, the material in Purple Rain before the movie even hit blew it up.

It's almost like saying "Prince isn't really talented, he just uses sex"

No, 1999 Little Red Corvette and a few other songs got him bigger attention

17 Day, When Doves Cry Let's Go Crazy were crankin the radio stations before PR the movie hit

Most reviews: fans & movie/music critics say nothing about "sex" being the winner for PR. Being a 'rock film' Sex Drugs & Rock n Roll it has to be in there

It's the music and performance scenes that stand out and get the applause 1st and foremost

then Morris & Jeromes comedic scenes

Prince is the puppet master, but he didn't singlehandely build his empire (that's not historically or literally possible) he had the best & right people in his camp at the time. the writer and director of Purple Rain, his band, the Time esp Morris Jerome Jesse Big Chick and all those people in the film who were actually real life people in Prince's life even Billy Sparks, his engineers Susan Rogers & Coke Johnson, David Rivkin, and the other proteges, they had to be able to see the vision Prince had and put themselves into character while being themselves and execute which is why the 1980's proteges were the best

Agreed, he was't a one man show, although I also agree that sex and religion sells. Is it all in sincerity? Maybe.

alexandernevamind said:

BoySimon said:

Some of what you have written is true, some of what you have written isn't.

I seem to remember that The Revolution were kept on a paid retainer even when not in rehearsal/production mode - given to be unusual at the time.

Prince wrote Kiss, Mazarati and David Z polished it, Prince wanted it back... so he took it.

I can't think of a Prince band member who felt they were being 'used', as such... possibly Wendy towards the end, maybe Lisa... but that may have been a feeling they had once SOTT was released and they could hear themselves playing but not being credited with the performance in the liner notes.

I think there is an element of regret, frustration and anger on the part of ex-band members because once you're out, you're out. There was an article around the time Prince's and Mayte's child died when Matt Fink tried to go out to Paisley Park to offer Prince his support. He was not allowed in... This may obviously have been because Prince was in mourning, but Fink didn't appear to think this was the reason.

Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic was Prince working on a collaboration album... and it did not work. Prince, to these ears, works best when he's surrounded himself with strong talented people who, whilst never quite getting around to saying no to him, at least are able to influence the sound and direction of the music in more subtle or more idiosyncratic ways - for example Femi Jiya, W&L, Fink, Cymone (though I reckon Andre probably did say no to Prince quite a lot), Blackwell, Leeds, Thompson, Rogers, Parker or Fischer. Putting Prince in a studio with, say Chuck D, Sherly Crow, Gwen Stefani, Ani DiFranco, doesn't work. I seem to remember one of the reasons given by Prince for failing to turn up to the We Are The World recordings as being because he would 'freeze up' in a room full of stars... though, of course, that could be revisionist history/bullshit.

Prince has collaborated on individual songs with artists like Stevie Wonder... it was ok ... (again, to these ears)... but (and this links back, I think, to a thread I started a little while ago about Leeds or Parker as a saxophonist in Prince's band) - Prince works better with people who he has chosen and who are strong mentally and very sure of who they are. He stumbled on the perfect line-up twice (three times if you include the early Revolution with Andre and Dez) with The Revolution and with the SOTT/Lovesexy Band. Beyond that, his band members have been great musicians but uninspiring, with some exceptions (Sonny Thompson, Michael Bland, John Blackwell, Renato Neto).

Prince's music has sucked in the last 10 years? Not sure about that. It hasn't been as consistently good as it was in the 80s and (to some extent) in the 90s, but the last decade has seen some pretty great music released by Prince. I think that, and I most definitely include myself in this, we have come to expect too much from one man. The only problem is, he also expects too much of us ... in that he wants us to revere each and every release as if it were as good as the last... that's where Prince's popularity may have suffered. If he was honest enough to come out and say... 'ok, NPS and a couple of the other albums were a bit duff, but hey, listen to his new stuff..." then I think the world would be more inclined to give him another go. But then, what artist would admit they produced shit?

Anyway. This answer has rambled. I've realised I have too much time on my hands, and I think I need to go and put the kettle on for another cup of tea!

Ahmir “?uestlove” Thompson found himself in the hot seat on Bravo’s Watch What Happens Live. WhenAndy Cohen asked Questlove if he had ever not been credited for his contribution to an album, he said Prince hadn’t credited him on Prince’s One Night Onlyalbum. Apparently, Thompson sat in on drums for a song and didn’t receive any recognition.

I REST MY CASE!..lol

And this experience had such a traumatic effect on him that he can't even remember the name of the Prince album in question???

are we really going to pretend that prince was that great of a songwriter? i mean come on .. half his songs are 12 bar blues run thru a drum machine .. thousands of people have written these songs before .. what made them interesting is how his band pushed prince beyond his own capabilities .. the description of kiss is case and point .. kiss would have come off as another cute but boring blues song like telemarketer blues .. or the ride .. and how many one chord funk chant songs do we need .. dmsr .. rave .. 3121 .. etc .. the revolution morris day eric leeds sheila e .. all those talented cats where around for MOST of prince finest musical output .. the proof is in the fact that without certain talent around prince music sucks .. u cant say that the revolution only influenced a small percentage of his work just because prince recorded tons of horrid music after the revolution was gone .. the fact is chaka khan made i feel for u a hit .. sinead occonnor made nothing compares to you a hit .. and the revolution guys made kiss a hit .. without those specific contributions prince would not have had hits with those songs .. as is PROVEN by the fact that his versions went nowhere .. just because prince wrote the 3 chords involved in kiss and millions of other songs, does not mean other people did not make SIGNIFICANT contributions to propel the music to the interest of the masses .. prince cant do it alone .. its been proven for about 20 years now .. he can't even come up with one masterpiece per album on his own .. it is because he is surrounded by musicians with nothing musically interesting to add .. and prince can't come up with anything that good on his own .. he needs to be jamming with the revolution and hanging with his other musical buds to share ideas and give the music the over all prince brand sound .. prince as an individual does not contain the talent to sound as good as prince the band member who played the rest of his bands ideas and parts himself .. prince as a solo artist is not a whole lot more talented than ur average coffee house or bar band musicians .. his uniqeness up and uniqued right out the door .. now he just photo copies his ideas from the revolution days .. throws in a few of his fathers hokey lounge piano licks .. regurgitates his .. i got more money than u .. and .. i have more sex than you .. and .. i can still write a social message song .. lyrics over the same 3 chords he always plays .. prove me wrong prince .. put out a GOOD record .. i fuckin dare ya

angel345 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think all artists steal from others

I disagree, the material in Purple Rain before the movie even hit blew it up.

It's almost like saying "Prince isn't really talented, he just uses sex"

No, 1999 Little Red Corvette and a few other songs got him bigger attention

17 Day, When Doves Cry Let's Go Crazy were crankin the radio stations before PR the movie hit

Most reviews: fans & movie/music critics say nothing about "sex" being the winner for PR. Being a 'rock film' Sex Drugs & Rock n Roll it has to be in there

It's the music and performance scenes that stand out and get the applause 1st and foremost

then Morris & Jeromes comedic scenes

Prince is the puppet master, but he didn't singlehandely build his empire (that's not historically or literally possible) he had the best & right people in his camp at the time. the writer and director of Purple Rain, his band, the Time esp Morris Jerome Jesse Big Chick and all those people in the film who were actually real life people in Prince's life even Billy Sparks, his engineers Susan Rogers & Coke Johnson, David Rivkin, and the other proteges, they had to be able to see the vision Prince had and put themselves into character while being themselves and execute which is why the 1980's proteges were the best

Agreed, he was't a one man show, although I also agree that sex and religion sells. Is it all in sincerity? Maybe.

Sex Drugs & Rock n Roll

Sex Religion & Rock n Roll

lol

or should we say Sex Controversy & Rock n Roll

whenever you mix Sex + Religion = Controversy

I think there was a discussion about this last year on whether or not the Prince we see know was the 'real' Prince back then, was Prince really more 'conservative' but put on the show of being the Rebel.

In another thread it was mentioned that Prince never really brought up 'religion' until Purple Rain era really,

I forget the persons name but someone back in the early 80's in his camp suggested 2 Prince to start playing with the Sex vs Spirituality in his music. Prior 2 Controversy I don't think there was any mention of 'religion' or spirituality. Maybe that's where the whole "Do I believe in God do I believe in me" line comes from, questions from his prior work.

Prince was a great visionary as far as that period was concerned, the keeping of the vision together he did do as well because he needed to much control. Done right the Time Vanity 6 Sheila E Mazarati the Family(I believe the Family was happening and the change in the Time just brought in members quicker) could have been much larger

TrevorAyer said:

are we really going to pretend that prince was that great of a songwriter? i mean come on .. half his songs are 12 bar blues run thru a drum machine .. thousands of people have written these songs before .. what made them interesting is how his band pushed prince beyond his own capabilities .. the description of kiss is case and point .. kiss would have come off as another cute but boring blues song like telemarketer blues .. or the ride .. and how many one chord funk chant songs do we need .. dmsr .. rave .. 3121 .. etc .. the revolution morris day eric leeds sheila e .. all those talented cats where around for MOST of prince finest musical output .. the proof is in the fact that without certain talent around prince music sucks .. u cant say that the revolution only influenced a small percentage of his work just because prince recorded tons of horrid music after the revolution was gone .. the fact is chaka khan made i feel for u a hit .. sinead occonnor made nothing compares to you a hit .. and the revolution guys made kiss a hit .. without those specific contributions prince would not have had hits with those songs .. as is PROVEN by the fact that his versions went nowhere .. just because prince wrote the 3 chords involved in kiss and millions of other songs, does not mean other people did not make SIGNIFICANT contributions to propel the music to the interest of the masses .. prince cant do it alone .. its been proven for about 20 years now .. he can't even come up with one masterpiece per album on his own .. it is because he is surrounded by musicians with nothing musically interesting to add .. and prince can't come up with anything that good on his own .. he needs to be jamming with the revolution and hanging with his other musical buds to share ideas and give the music the over all prince brand sound .. prince as an individual does not contain the talent to sound as good as prince the band member who played the rest of his bands ideas and parts himself .. .. his uniqeness up and uniqued right out the door .. now he just photo copies his ideas from the revolution days .. throws in a few of his fathers hokey lounge piano licks .. regurgitates his .. i got more money than u .. and .. i have more sex than you .. and .. i can still write a social message song .. lyrics over the same 3 chords he always plays .. prove me wrong prince .. put out a GOOD record .. i fuckin dare ya

No offense but you are flat out wrong

He cannot even come up with one masterpiece on his own? Who wrote when doves cry, wendy, lisa? Who wrote if i was your girlfriend? Really, trevor

So what if Sinnead made NC2U famous? Who wrote the song? Who wrote I feel for you? Not sinead, not Chaka, but Prince

And you are seriously comparing Prince to coffehouse musicians? His own band members, past and present, have called him a musical genius, and yet you think he lacks talent

When wendy, lisa, moris or any of these so called mega talented artists can write a masterpiece like When Doves Cry on their own, then you can come back

Fact is:

- The vast majority of the songs were Prince's work and HIS IDEAS

- Kiss does not represent his entire carrear.

And trevor, Prince is widely regarded as one of the greatest songwriters of all time, regardless of what you are going to claim. And he constantly wrote hits for other artists. Why is that? Why didn't his mega talented band members write hit songs for other artists?

OldFriends4Sale said:

hhhhdmt said:

and that's your evidence?

You have already been proven wrong on the Kiss part, so i am not going to go there.

Your claim was that Prince would not have written the purple rain music without the revolution. His own band members have said he wrote songs like When Doves Cry and The Beautiful Ones without anyone else. WDC was the biggest hit on the album.

Further none of his band members has ever suggested that the majority of his work was written by others. No one disputes that the vast majority of the music was Prince and Prince only's

Lastly, Wendy and Lisa were competent musicians but to say they were the reason for Prince's commercial success is comical. Wendy and Lisa never wrote a big hit in their careers, never wrote a single big hit for anyone. Prince regularly wrote big hits for other artits.

Wendy and Lisa were good backup musicians who co wrote a few good songs with Prince. They were not the godesses of music that revolution fanboys make them out to be. Nor did they write the majority of his material.

Possessed: The Rise & Fall of Prince p 89

"Can you come out to LA for the weekend?" Prince asked. "I've got some stuff for you to do." Rivkin agreed, packed two pairs of pants , and booked a flight. When he arrived the next day, Prince greeted him boisterously. "Oh, by the way, you've got to be here for a couple of months!" he exclaimed. "We have a Mazarati album to do."

A few days later after Rivkin's arrival, Prince took a break from his own work and poked his head into Studio 2, where Mazarati was working. When one of the band members asked off-handedly if he had any more songs for them, Prince paged Susan Rogers over the studio loudspeaker; when she arrived a few moments later, they disappeared into a room with an acoustic guitar and a four-track cassette recorder.

As he waited for Rogers to prepare the equipment, Prince tapped impatiently on the body of the accoustic guitar. "Rolling?" he asked. She quickly responded affirmatively, and Prince began briskly strumming a basic twelve-bar blues pattern and singing mournfully in his lower register. The song, "Kiss," was completed in just minutes, and Prince emerged with the tape. "Here, finish this off," he said to Rivkin and Brown(Mark). "Do what you want with this song!"

After Prince left, the group caucused. Tony Christian, Mazarati's rhythm guitarist, was not impressed. "Nobody liked the song," he recalled. Rivkin wasn't enthralled by "Kiss" either, but the song's blues orientation triggered ideas in his mind. He and (Brown)Mark began reconstructing it, first creating a foundation of drums that made the piece pepier and more danceable. Rivkin added an infectious piano riff borrowed from an obsure Bo Diddly song called "Hey Man." He and Coke Johnson, another engineer present, used a studio trick that linked the acoustic guitar part to the hi-hat cymbal, making it follow the same jagged rhythm. Singer Terry Casey then added his own rendition of Prince's words, and Rivkin came up with an idea for a backing vocal part based on the song "Sweet Nothings" by pop singer Brenda Lee.

Working through the night, theycompleted the song by about nine a.m., when the band members went home as Rivkin and Johnson prepared a mix. When Prince stopped by around noon, Rivkin gave him a cassette. Intrigued, he took a portable boom box out to the basketball court in the center of the complex and blasted it. "He went ballistic," remembered (Coke)Johnson. Prince could not believe this his languid blues number had been changed into something so funky an energetic. "This is too good for ou guys!" Prince shouted. "I'm taking it back."

But after this initial reaction, Prince felt guilty about poaching the band's work. Huddling with engineers Rogers and Peggy McCreary, he asked their opinions. Although McCreary felt Mazarati should keep the song, Rogers cast the tie-breaking vote in favor of Prince because she felt "Kiss" would get more exposure on his album.

With this resolved, Prince took the master tape and cut his own vocals (this time using his falsetto), replacing Terry Casey's. He also added a James Brown -style guitar lick at the beginning of the song and during pauses that recurred at the end of each chorus. Finally, he tweaked the mix, dropping out the bass guitar. He was finished in a little over an hour;"Kiss" had completed it's transformation from a Prince song, to a Mazarati song, and back to a Prince song. It would eventually reach No. 1 on Billboard's Pop Singles Chart as the first single from Parade.

Not surprisingly, given its genesis, credit for the song was contested. Although Prince gave David Rivkin an "arrangement" credit for the song, the rest of the credit states that "Kiss" was "produced, composed and written by Prince and the Revolution." In an apologetic call to Rivkin, Prince said that Warner Bros. would not allow him to give anyone other than himself a producer's billing. Rivkin- while he certainly didn't accept this flimsy explaination - remained philosophical about the episode and concluded, in the end, that Prince's modest additions to the piece made it much better.

Mark Brown also claimed that he was in essence the producer of "Kiss," and remains chagrine that Rivkin, rather than he, received the arrangement credit. Brown says he gave Prince and his managers numerous opportunities to compensate him for his contributions to the song, but no action was ever taken.

(the way we hear it live on the Parade tours/shows with the bass is how it was originally recorded by BrownMark with the bass line)

and we are going to use this one song to determine that somehow his band members were responsible for everything he has ever done?

The fact is that they did NOT co write the majority of his material, none of them were truly great songwriters. Prince was the one who was constantly writing hit songs for other artists. None of them have ever made the claim that they wrote majority of the material or that they were robbed off several songs.

Some people do not like Prince's recent music- which is fine. However these fans simply use this as an excuse to claim that Prince's success was because of his bandmembers. They were a bunch of good backup musicians and fine writers. They were not the geniuses that they are made out to be.

hhhhdmt said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Possessed: The Rise & Fall of Prince p 89

"Can you come out to LA for the weekend?" Prince asked. "I've got some stuff for you to do." Rivkin agreed, packed two pairs of pants , and booked a flight. When he arrived the next day, Prince greeted him boisterously. "Oh, by the way, you've got to be here for a couple of months!" he exclaimed. "We have a Mazarati album to do."

A few days later after Rivkin's arrival, Prince took a break from his own work and poked his head into Studio 2, where Mazarati was working. When one of the band members asked off-handedly if he had any more songs for them, Prince paged Susan Rogers over the studio loudspeaker; when she arrived a few moments later, they disappeared into a room with an acoustic guitar and a four-track cassette recorder.

As he waited for Rogers to prepare the equipment, Prince tapped impatiently on the body of the accoustic guitar. "Rolling?" he asked. She quickly responded affirmatively, and Prince began briskly strumming a basic twelve-bar blues pattern and singing mournfully in his lower register. The song, "Kiss," was completed in just minutes, and Prince emerged with the tape. "Here, finish this off," he said to Rivkin and Brown(Mark). "Do what you want with this song!"

After Prince left, the group caucused. Tony Christian, Mazarati's rhythm guitarist, was not impressed. "Nobody liked the song," he recalled. Rivkin wasn't enthralled by "Kiss" either, but the song's blues orientation triggered ideas in his mind. He and (Brown)Mark began reconstructing it, first creating a foundation of drums that made the piece pepier and more danceable. Rivkin added an infectious piano riff borrowed from an obsure Bo Diddly song called "Hey Man." He and Coke Johnson, another engineer present, used a studio trick that linked the acoustic guitar part to the hi-hat cymbal, making it follow the same jagged rhythm. Singer Terry Casey then added his own rendition of Prince's words, and Rivkin came up with an idea for a backing vocal part based on the song "Sweet Nothings" by pop singer Brenda Lee.

Working through the night, theycompleted the song by about nine a.m., when the band members went home as Rivkin and Johnson prepared a mix. When Prince stopped by around noon, Rivkin gave him a cassette. Intrigued, he took a portable boom box out to the basketball court in the center of the complex and blasted it. "He went ballistic," remembered (Coke)Johnson. Prince could not believe this his languid blues number had been changed into something so funky an energetic. "This is too good for ou guys!" Prince shouted. "I'm taking it back."

But after this initial reaction, Prince felt guilty about poaching the band's work. Huddling with engineers Rogers and Peggy McCreary, he asked their opinions. Although McCreary felt Mazarati should keep the song, Rogers cast the tie-breaking vote in favor of Prince because she felt "Kiss" would get more exposure on his album.

With this resolved, Prince took the master tape and cut his own vocals (this time using his falsetto), replacing Terry Casey's. He also added a James Brown -style guitar lick at the beginning of the song and during pauses that recurred at the end of each chorus. Finally, he tweaked the mix, dropping out the bass guitar. He was finished in a little over an hour;"Kiss" had completed it's transformation from a Prince song, to a Mazarati song, and back to a Prince song. It would eventually reach No. 1 on Billboard's Pop Singles Chart as the first single from Parade.

Not surprisingly, given its genesis, credit for the song was contested. Although Prince gave David Rivkin an "arrangement" credit for the song, the rest of the credit states that "Kiss" was "produced, composed and written by Prince and the Revolution." In an apologetic call to Rivkin, Prince said that Warner Bros. would not allow him to give anyone other than himself a producer's billing. Rivkin- while he certainly didn't accept this flimsy explaination - remained philosophical about the episode and concluded, in the end, that Prince's modest additions to the piece made it much better.

Mark Brown also claimed that he was in essence the producer of "Kiss," and remains chagrine that Rivkin, rather than he, received the arrangement credit. Brown says he gave Prince and his managers numerous opportunities to compensate him for his contributions to the song, but no action was ever taken.

(the way we hear it live on the Parade tours/shows with the bass is how it was originally recorded by BrownMark with the bass line)

and we are going to use this one song to determine that somehow his band members were responsible for everything he has ever done?

The fact is that they did NOT co write the majority of his material, none of them were truly great songwriters. Prince was the one who was constantly writing hit songs for other artists. None of them have ever made the claim that they wrote majority of the material or that they were robbed off several songs.

Some people do not like Prince's recent music- which is fine. However these fans simply use this as an excuse to claim that Prince's success was because of his bandmembers. They were a bunch of good backup musicians and fine writers. They were not the geniuses that they are made out to be.

what I posted is not a arguement for or against

That was just some of the background history on that song that I thought everyone would be interested in reading

so is the guy that writes 'hits' for justin beiber the most talented songwriter ever too?

even tho beibers music makes most adults want to hurl and is an absolute disgrace to music.

what u are not getting is that other artists were turning OK prince ideas into full blown HITS.

nasty girl would not have been a hit without vanity

i feel for u would be forgotten without chaka kahn

jungle love

screams of passion

the bird

glamorous life

erotic city

17 days

nothing compares to you

kiss

dirty mind

do me baby

scandelous

and thats just the stuff he actually gives credit for .. sort of

prince wrote and recorded music by himself but it was all in the context of jamming or being around other very strong musical personalities who shaped the music into the excellence it became .. without those other contributions the music ranges from flat to completely bad

compare the performances of eric leeds and atlanta bliss to renato netos horn samples played in the key of light elevator music and maybe u will see the contrast more clearly .. or in prince bonics .. there are far less colors of the rainbow in prince paint set these days .. and thats cuz he banished many of the good colors and now he is stuck with some crayola water paints he bought at walmart .. and he's has used the prince color up a long time ago ..

And trevor, what significant contribution did Sinead have in nothing compares 2 u? Did she write the chord progression? Did she write the lyrics? What exactly was the incredible contribution she made other than bringing it to the mainstream? And we are supposed to credit her for a song which Prince wrote on HIS OWN?

Besides Kiss isn't even the biggest hit of his carrear. That was WDC which even his band members admitted they had nothing to do with. Next you are going to agrue that Prince would have never written WDC, IIWYGF, I Wanna Be Your Lover etc without the revolution.

And no offense but you have no evidence that majority of his work was a result of jamming or it was the idea of the revolution members. Just because you don't like his recent music, doesnt mean you can magically come up with this theory that Prince is incapable of great ideas on his own. Wendy herself said she was amazed at Prince's creativity and songwriting talent after she heard the beautiful ones- which was not co written by the revolution.

TrevorAyer said:

so is the guy that writes 'hits' for justin beiber the most talented songwriter ever too?

even tho beibers music makes most adults want to hurl and is an absolute disgrace to music.

what u are not getting is that other artists were turning OK prince ideas into full blown HITS.

nasty girl would not have been a hit without vanity

i feel for u would be forgotten without chaka kahn

jungle love

screams of passion

the bird

glamorous life

erotic city

17 days

nothing compares to you

kiss

dirty mind

do me baby

scandelous

and thats just the stuff he actually gives credit for .. sort of

prince wrote and recorded music by himself but it was all in the context of jamming or being around other very strong musical personalities who shaped the music into the excellence it became .. without those other contributions the music ranges from flat to completely bad

compare the performances of eric leeds and atlanta bliss to renato netos horn samples played in the key of light elevator music and maybe u will see the contrast more clearly .. or in prince bonics .. there are far less colors of the rainbow in prince paint set these days .. and thats cuz he banished many of the good colors and now he is stuck with some crayola water paints he bought at walmart .. and he's has used the prince color up a long time ago ..

that is because bieber's music sucks. Thats why.

None of the songs you mentioned above were big hits- except for kiss. The glamourous life was not a prince hit- a sheila hit. I feel for you was a hit for Chaka.

Why was the biggest hit of his carrear (wdc) written on his own- something everyone admits?

And his own ideas range from flat to bad?

The following songs are some of his ideas:

- The beautiful ones

- WDC

- If i was your girlfriend

- I wanna be your lover

- I could never take the place of your man

yes, really bad or flat ideas.

And songs like NC2U or I feel for you, were not "ok ideas", they were proper and great songs before Sinead or Chaka ever touched them. They brought it to the mainstream, they did not co write those songs or do anything amazing with them- the credit goes to the guy who actually wrote the songs. Making a song famous doesn't make you a songwriter- writing a great song makes u a songwriter. These were not "ok" ideas, these were fantastic songs that he created.

And maybe you are not understanding the fact that he wrote the biggest hit of his carrear as well as stuff like:

i Wanna be your lover

1999

Little red corvette

Let's Go Crazy

SOTT

The most beautiful girl in the world

and so on

EmancipationLover said:

alexandernevamind said:

Ahmir “?uestlove” Thompson found himself in the hot seat on Bravo’s Watch What Happens Live. WhenAndy Cohen asked Questlove if he had ever not been credited for his contribution to an album, he said Prince hadn’t credited him on Prince’s One Night Onlyalbum. Apparently, Thompson sat in on drums for a song and didn’t receive any recognition.

I REST MY CASE!..lol

And this experience had such a traumatic effect on him that he can't even remember the name of the Prince album in question???

I think Nevamind's point is that without ?uestlove playing the drums on TWO minutes of the aftershow CD of ONA, the whole 3-disc set woulda been a totally lame record, and that Prince, being fully aware of that, omitted ?uestlove's credits in order to take full credit for the only two good minutes of his 3-CD set... Obviously critics would rave about Prince is they think that the drumming on these 2 minutes were by him... Oh no! Wait... Drums were credited to John Blackwell for the whole record... So what did Prince steal...? Nothing... He miscredited one guy for another...

See... This is how deeply thought the OP's posts are...

TrevorAyer said:

so is the guy that writes 'hits' for justin beiber the most talented songwriter ever too?

even tho beibers music makes most adults want to hurl and is an absolute disgrace to music.

what u are not getting is that other artists were turning OK prince ideas into full blown HITS.

nasty girl would not have been a hit without vanity

i feel for u would be forgotten without chaka kahn

jungle love

screams of passion

the bird

glamorous life

erotic city

17 days

nothing compares to you

kiss

dirty mind

do me baby

scandelous

and thats just the stuff he actually gives credit for .. sort of

prince wrote and recorded music by himself but it was all in the context of jamming or being around other very strong musical personalities who shaped the music into the excellence it became .. without those other contributions the music ranges from flat to completely bad

compare the performances of eric leeds and atlanta bliss to renato netos horn samples played in the key of light elevator music and maybe u will see the contrast more clearly .. or in prince bonics .. there are far less colors of the rainbow in prince paint set these days .. and thats cuz he banished many of the good colors and now he is stuck with some crayola water paints he bought at walmart .. and he's has used the prince color up a long time ago ..

And where are most of those so-called' strong contributors today while Prince still reigns as one of the greatest musicians/performers alive, even after he was no longer working with any of them? Anyone of those contributors could have been replaced. He could have stopped his career at any time and become a recluse, but he moved on after the 80s.

Prince being associated with other unknown artists, doesn't make his name known, he makes their names known, like he did with W&L, Sheila E., Vanity, etc., They don't make his name known because they'll always be known as musicians/artists that worked for or with him. Even after they were no longer working with him, and they achieved their own popularity or success;point is, that's is how most will remember the majority of them.

[Edited 1/20/12 8:52am]

TrevorAyer said:

are we really going to pretend that prince was that great of a songwriter? i mean come on .. half his songs are 12 bar blues run thru a drum machine .. thousands of people have written these songs before .. what made them interesting is how his band pushed prince beyond his own capabilities .. the description of kiss is case and point .. kiss would have come off as another cute but boring blues song like telemarketer blues .. or the ride .. and how many one chord funk chant songs do we need .. dmsr .. rave .. 3121 .. etc .. the revolution morris day eric leeds sheila e .. all those talented cats where around for MOST of prince finest musical output .. the proof is in the fact that without certain talent around prince music sucks .. u cant say that the revolution only influenced a small percentage of his work just because prince recorded tons of horrid music after the revolution was gone .. the fact is chaka khan made i feel for u a hit .. sinead occonnor made nothing compares to you a hit .. and the revolution guys made kiss a hit .. without those specific contributions prince would not have had hits with those songs .. as is PROVEN by the fact that his versions went nowhere .. just because prince wrote the 3 chords involved in kiss and millions of other songs, does not mean other people did not make SIGNIFICANT contributions to propel the music to the interest of the masses .. prince cant do it alone .. its been proven for about 20 years now .. he can't even come up with one masterpiece per album on his own .. it is because he is surrounded by musicians with nothing musically interesting to add .. and prince can't come up with anything that good on his own .. he needs to be jamming with the revolution and hanging with his other musical buds to share ideas and give the music the over all prince brand sound .. prince as an individual does not contain the talent to sound as good as prince the band member who played the rest of his bands ideas and parts himself .. prince as a solo artist is not a whole lot more talented than ur average coffee house or bar band musicians .. his uniqeness up and uniqued right out the door .. now he just photo copies his ideas from the revolution days .. throws in a few of his fathers hokey lounge piano licks .. regurgitates his .. i got more money than u .. and .. i have more sex than you .. and .. i can still write a social message song .. lyrics over the same 3 chords he always plays .. prove me wrong prince .. put out a GOOD record .. i fuckin dare ya

You can't be serious, can you?

Mmmh... wait a minute... ain't u that guy who claimed in a thread a few months back that your songs were better than Prince's?

2elijah said:

TrevorAyer said:

so is the guy that writes 'hits' for justin beiber the most talented songwriter ever too?

even tho beibers music makes most adults want to hurl and is an absolute disgrace to music.

what u are not getting is that other artists were turning OK prince ideas into full blown HITS.

nasty girl would not have been a hit without vanity

i feel for u would be forgotten without chaka kahn

jungle love

screams of passion

the bird

glamorous life

erotic city

17 days

nothing compares to you

kiss

dirty mind

do me baby

scandelous

and thats just the stuff he actually gives credit for .. sort of

prince wrote and recorded music by himself but it was all in the context of jamming or being around other very strong musical personalities who shaped the music into the excellence it became .. without those other contributions the music ranges from flat to completely bad

compare the performances of eric leeds and atlanta bliss to renato netos horn samples played in the key of light elevator music and maybe u will see the contrast more clearly .. or in prince bonics .. there are far less colors of the rainbow in prince paint set these days .. and thats cuz he banished many of the good colors and now he is stuck with some crayola water paints he bought at walmart .. and he's has used the prince color up a long time ago ..

And where are most of those so-called' strong contributors today while Prince still reigns as one of the greatest musicians/performers alive, even after he was no longer working with any of them? Anyone of those contributors could have been replaced. He could have stopped his career at any time and become a recluse, but he moved on after the 80s.

Prince is the man!!

But if you're saying anyone could have replaced Morris Day or the such, I disagree. We aren't dealing with clones, we are dealing with individual people

Apollonia could not 'replace' Vanity 4 Vanity 6 for example

hhhhdmt said:

And songs like NC2U or I feel for you, were not "ok ideas", they were proper and great songs before Sinead or Chaka ever touched them. They brought it to the mainstream, they did not co write those songs or do anything amazing with them- the credit goes to the guy who actually wrote the songs. Making a song famous doesn't make you a songwriter- writing a great song makes u a songwriter. These were not "ok" ideas, these were fantastic songs that he created.

And maybe you are not understanding the fact that he wrote the biggest hit of his carrear as well as stuff like:

i Wanna be your lover

1999

Little red corvette

Let's Go Crazy

SOTT

The most beautiful girl in the world

and so on

I still prefer the Family's version of NC2U over Sineads

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

And where are most of those so-called' strong contributors today while Prince still reigns as one of the greatest musicians/performers alive, even after he was no longer working with any of them? Anyone of those contributors could have been replaced. He could have stopped his career at any time and become a recluse, but he moved on after the 80s.

Prince is the man!!

But if you're saying anyone could have replaced Morris Day or the such, I disagree. We aren't dealing with clones, we are dealing with individual people

Apollonia could not 'replace' Vanity 4 Vanity 6 for example

You can't say that no one could have replaced Morris Day. There's plenty of personalities out there just like his, just as much as many females like Appollonia and Vanity. They just happen to be around at the right time. There is nothing 'outstanding' or that unique about any of their personalities. Now if you think Prince can be replaced, well it will have to be someone who can possess his music talents and outdo his stage performances, and be able to mesmerize/captivate fans like he did. Same with JB, no one can replace him as well as MJ. I don't believe we will see anyone in the future who could 'stand out' like all 3, in the way they did. Yes, Prince and MJ borrowed a lot of JB's dance styles, but they took it and made it their own, where you can distinguish it from JBs.

Chris Brown tries hard with his dancing, and he's a good dancer, but what he does, has already been done.

OldFriends4Sale said:

imago said:

Don't all artists 'steal' from somebody?

Prince exploded on the scene not because of his material in Purple Rain, but because of sex.

I'm not sure if people recall that period, but all that was ever mentioned with Prince at that

time was his sexual material or his provacativeness....it was never the music.

Prince had to prove his musical abilities as the process went on. So, talent had little to

do with his fame. Sustainability, yes...fame, no.

Either way, Prince singlehandedly built his empire--not his proteges.

I don't think all artists steal from others

I disagree, the material in Purple Rain before the movie even hit blew it up.

It's almost like saying "Prince isn't really talented, he just uses sex"

No, 1999 Little Red Corvette and a few other songs got him bigger attention

17 Day, When Doves Cry Let's Go Crazy were crankin the radio stations before PR the movie hit

Most reviews: fans & movie/music critics say nothing about "sex" being the winner for PR. Being a 'rock film' Sex Drugs & Rock n Roll it has to be in there

It's the music and performance scenes that stand out and get the applause 1st and foremost

then Morris & Jeromes comedic scenes

Prince is the puppet master, but he didn't singlehandely build his empire (that's not historically or literally possible) he had the best & right people in his camp at the time. the writer and director of Purple Rain, his band, the Time esp Morris Jerome Jesse Big Chick and all those people in the film who were actually real life people in Prince's life even Billy Sparks, his engineers Susan Rogers & Coke Johnson, David Rivkin, and the other proteges, they had to be able to see the vision Prince had and put themselves into character while being themselves and execute which is why the 1980's proteges were the best

I have no clue with what you're dissagreeing with at this point, becuase I didn't "almost" say

anything to that effect.

I didn't say Prince isn't talented. What I said was he was getting all the attention he

was receiving mainly based on his sexual provacativeness.

Every where you looked, you'd hear about Tipper Gore, Darlin Nikki, panties on stage, etc.

and rarely heard anything about a multi-talented musician.

I remember a Rolling Stones critic even saying that it was a shame his racey persona

overshaddowed some true genius.

And I think you're taking my statement that all artist 'steal' literally along with

his singlehandedly building his empire. My point is that Prince's proteges had

little to do with his success. And even if they did, being influeced by other artists

is not unique to Prince, nor can be counted as a way to discredit him.

Have people lost their ability to read on this board? Sheesh. It's embarassing I even

have to explain myself.

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince is the man!!

But if you're saying anyone could have replaced Morris Day or the such, I disagree. We aren't dealing with clones, we are dealing with individual people

Apollonia could not 'replace' Vanity 4 Vanity 6 for example

You can't say that no one could have replaced Morris Day. There's plenty of personalities out there just like his, just as much as many females like Appollonia and Vanity. They just happen to be around at the right time. There is nothing 'outstanding' or that unique about any of their personalities. Now if you think Prince can be replaced, well it will have to be someone who can possess his music talents and outdo his stage performances, and be able to mesmerize/captivate fans like he did. Same with JB, no one can replace him as well as MJ. I don't believe we will see anyone in the future who could 'stand out' like all 3, in the way they did. Yes, Prince and MJ borrowed a lot of JB's dance styles, but they took it and made it their own, where you can distinguish it from JBs.

Chris Brown tries hard with his dancing, and he's a good dancer, but what he does, has already been done.

Yeah I think it's not an easy thing to do.

If it was anyone else that Morris & Jerome it wouldn't not have been the same and might not have worked.

Vanity had the right attitude and background and chemistry with Prince Susan & Brenda as well as with the Time to do that job, she didn't it well. Apollonia failed to fill her shoes.

Just listening to the V6 version of Sex Shooter, and Vanity nailed the song, her personality was in it and you can tell Prince and everyone else on that jam were feeding off her.

And Prince could not have been replaced either. Patti Labelle & Treyzongs should have never attempted to do Purple Rain. I vomitted.

Like i said before, this is a troll thread. The op is just trying to create contreoversy. "we all know that he wouldn't" have written it without the revolution? He wrote the biggest song on the record without them There is absolutely no evidence of anything provided by the op, it's just a joke. If the op doesn't like or want to purchase prince's recent work- that is completely fine. However its not an excuse to make useless threads with no evidence whatsoever. Prince achieved commercial success, not only for himself but for other artists as well. He was going to be very popular no matter what.