SuperFurryAnimal said:

petes2 said:

I tend to agree but what keeps me from completely believing that are the lyrics from old friends for sale, I mean it's pretty obvious that he's speaking of wendly and lisa, at least to me and how some of his other people are tugging at him to leave them. Also, I've said it a million times, lots of musicians around Prince had one or two things working for them, none was the complete package that Prince was. I've heard people here, in the know, say that Jesse Johnson was responsible for introducing Prince to a prettier look and picking a color as a gimmick. Jesse did not have the whole package though, no one did but Prince. So to say these other people definitely had nothing to offer is just not true. W and L may have done some things which prince recognized as contributing to his music. We really don't know, we are too far away. But I'll say this, wendy and lisa in particular got bigheaded with the rolling stone covers and the movie and tried to push their own agendas too hard in trying to turn the band into what their vision was and I believe that is why Prince cut ties. I'd put money on that.

I dunno, well known back then that Chick (ps security guard) sold pics/stories to media like national enquirer and the 2 friends got stuck in the show I always figured that was about Jam and Lewis. Coke part prolly about Chick, Morris? IDK? But I never thought that song had much to do about W/L?? How u get that???

well it was at least 2 years or more since jam and lewis split, so i don't think he was talking about them when he sang the lyric that went something like "they say you lost your fire/ another musician you hired, little do they know that they took you highter" something like that, I know it's innaccurate but you can find the exact lyrics. I know he was also bitter over chick, the time and all the rest but that one line seems to be completely unrelated to a security guard or another band. Could be wrong, only Prince knows for sure, I think W and L conned him, I don't see their contributions as being all that significant but I could be very wrong.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

petes2 said:

I tend to agree but what keeps me from completely believing that are the lyrics from old friends for sale, I mean it's pretty obvious that he's speaking of wendly and lisa, at least to me and how some of his other people are tugging at him to leave them. Also, I've said it a million times, lots of musicians around Prince had one or two things working for them, none was the complete package that Prince was. I've heard people here, in the know, say that Jesse Johnson was responsible for introducing Prince to a prettier look and picking a color as a gimmick. Jesse did not have the whole package though, no one did but Prince. So to say these other people definitely had nothing to offer is just not true. W and L may have done some things which prince recognized as contributing to his music. We really don't know, we are too far away. But I'll say this, wendy and lisa in particular got bigheaded with the rolling stone covers and the movie and tried to push their own agendas too hard in trying to turn the band into what their vision was and I believe that is why Prince cut ties. I'd put money on that.

I dunno, well known back then that Chick (ps security guard) sold pics/stories to media like national enquirer and the 2 friends got stuck in the show I always figured that was about Jam and Lewis. Coke part prolly about Chick, Morris? IDK? But I never thought that song had much to do about W/L?? How u get that???

It's not about Lisa Coleman, but the 1 line is about Wendy

They say U lost your fire
When another musician U hired
Little do they know, U wouldn't have passed go
Unless they could take U higher,

petes2 said:

well it was at least 2 years or more since jam and lewis split, so i don't think he was talking about them when he sang the lyric that went something like "they say you lost your fire/ another musician you hired, little do they know that they took you highter" something like that, I know it's innaccurate but you can find the exact lyrics. I know he was also bitter over chick, the time and all the rest but that one line seems to be completely unrelated to a security guard or another band. Could be wrong, only Prince knows for sure, I think W and L conned him, I don't see their contributions as being all that significant but I could be very wrong.

petes2 said:

hhhhdmt said:

like i said before, this is a silly thread based on complete lies. Wendy and Lisa were fine musicians but they were not the geniuses they are made out to be. They had record deals and failed to achieve either commercial success or massive critical acclaim.

We know that Prince wrote songs like When Doves Cry, The Beautiful ones, If i was your girlfriend etc on his own (his own band members have stated this although posters like trevor are still in denial about it). I would love to know, what exactly did wendy or lisa write in their entire carrears that are as good as WDC of the beautiful ones? Answer: nothing.

Prince regularly wrote great hit songs for other artists, something that none of his bandmembers did. Why? Why did Prince help others become popular and yet his band members failed?

With all due respect to the OP and other posters like trevor, they are simply in denial. If Prince can write the biggest hit of his carrear (and arguably his greatest song), than he surely wrote other great songs.

I tend to agree but what keeps me from completely believing that are the lyrics from old friends for sale, I mean it's pretty obvious that he's speaking of wendly and lisa, at least to me and how some of his other people are tugging at him to leave them. Also, I've said it a million times, lots of musicians around Prince had one or two things working for them, none was the complete package that Prince was. I've heard people here, in the know, say that Jesse Johnson was responsible for introducing Prince to a prettier look and picking a color as a gimmick. Jesse did not have the whole package though, no one did but Prince. So to say these other people definitely had nothing to offer is just not true. W and L may have done some things which prince recognized as contributing to his music. We really don't know, we are too far away. But I'll say this, wendy and lisa in particular got bigheaded with the rolling stone covers and the movie and tried to push their own agendas too hard in trying to turn the band into what their vision was and I believe that is why Prince cut ties. I'd put money on that.

No the line is about Wendy vs Dez Dickerson (who left the band) and this is way prior to the ATWIAD album music release.

I don't know about Jesse introducing the color theme. I don't remember any pics of Prince wearing Purple until maybe Controversy(is that a purple coat?) but he did use purple in his lyrics that indicated it was a color of choice for him. 1976/77 outtake Leaving 4 New York, Sitting there on the purple lawn
U've been there since dawn

Prince was very close with Lisa Coleman & Wendy, plus he was dating Susannah, there was an intimate connection. Prince seemed to struggle with being a boss & a friend in an interview in 1985

Are you afraid to ask your friends to come by?

Prince:I'm kind of afraid. That's because sometimes everybody in the band comes over, and we have very long talks. They're few and far between, and I do a lot of the talking. Whenever we're done, one of them will come up to me and say, "Take care of yourself. You know I really love you." I think they love me so much, and I love them so much, that if they came over all the time I wouldn't be able to be to them what I am, and they wouldn't be able to do for me as what they do. I think we all need our individual spaces, and when we come together with what we've concocted in our heads, it's cool.

I don't think it was about them having a big head and trying to take control of the band. Some of the band including BrownMark Wendy & Lisa were vocally not in favour of the addition of the the 3 dancers Jerome Wally & Gregory. It was more on the lines of them not being musicians. And BrownMark, brought the fact that he was now placed behind them in the back near the 2nd level stage. But I think it was Prince who was having a hard time with the intimacy between him & Lisa & Wendy plus the fact that he was hurting Wendy's sister cheating on her and the head games.

Prince:

Wendy, for example, says, "I don't want that(stardom). I want to be right where I am. I can be strongest to this band right where I am." ... Everybody knows what they have to do. I know there's something I have to do.

She keeps a smile on her face. When I sneer, she smiles. It's not premeditated, she just does it. It's a good contrast. Lisa is like my sister. She'll play what the average person won't. She'll press two notes with one finger so the chord is a lot larger, things like that. She's more abstract. She's into Joni Mitchell, too.

Years later Prince writes a song dedicated to those ladies called In This Bed I Scream, and it says a lot about his relationship musically and intimately with them

In This Bed I Scream

2 these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em what I wasn't strong enough 2 say
2 these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em how I cried the day U went away

How do we ever lose communication?
How do we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if U wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

Yeah

In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of U
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put U through

Tell me, how're we gonna put this back 2gether?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving 2gether all the time

Living and loving

In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream

In this car I drive
I'm looking 4 the road that leads back 2 the soul we shared

petes2 said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

I dunno, well known back then that Chick (ps security guard) sold pics/stories to media like national enquirer and the 2 friends got stuck in the show I always figured that was about Jam and Lewis. Coke part prolly about Chick, Morris? IDK? But I never thought that song had much to do about W/L?? How u get that???

well it was at least 2 years or more since jam and lewis split, so i don't think he was talking about them when he sang the lyric that went something like "they say you lost your fire/ another musician you hired, little do they know that they took you highter" something like that, I know it's innaccurate but you can find the exact lyrics. I know he was also bitter over chick, the time and all the rest but that one line seems to be completely unrelated to a security guard or another band. Could be wrong, only Prince knows for sure, I think W and L conned him, I don't see their contributions as being all that significant but I could be very wrong.

The song was about a series of events. I think Jimmy & Terry were stuck in the snow that got them to miss the Time show they were supposed to be at that led to him firing them.

Why isn't Chick working for you anymore?

Chick has more pride than anybody I know. I think that after the L.A. incident, he feared for his job. So if I said something, he'd say, "What are you jumping on me for? What's wrong? Why all of sudden are you changing?" And I'd say, "I'm not changing." Finally, he just said, "I'm tired. I've had enough." I said fine, and he went home. I waited a few weeks and called him. I told him that his job was still there and that I was alone. So he said that he'd see me when I was in New York. He didn't show up. I miss him.

Is it true that Chick is still on the payroll?

Yes.

Lisa Coleman was in the band since 1979/80 She worked closely with Prince. I don't see how Prince was conned but if it makes u feel better to believe that go ahead. Eric Leads who worked closely with Prince said

Eric Leeds: From a conceptual basis, Wendy & Lisa were the two musicians in any of his bands who were able to tap into him on some subliminal level - they really did have a musical relationship that was closer than with anyone that he worked with.

EyeJester7 said:

2elijah said:

Hey sis! Now that's what I'm talking about. You said it in just a few words. Like you said, 'many talented people may have contributed' but Prince was the one who 'stood out'. He created the images/music he wanted for that era, and moved on. He was able to create the images, fashion wise with the Purple Rain, 'Sign of the Times/Lovesexy eras' along with the fashion/styles of each era. Imagine if he stopped at the end of those eras, we would have never been able to see what more of his music skills/talent he was capable of. In the Africa Channel's Behind the Symbol concert special, I remember the Twinz saying how Prince, outside of the music/rehearsals for each show, was very involved in the creative process and vision he had for each show, including his input/opinions regarding the choreography, costumes for all the band members, the lighting , etc.

Perfectly said! That's what makes Prince one of the greatest artists to ever walk the face of this earth! HE JUST IS!

I LOVE Prince, my head isn't up his or anyone else arse to say he is the greatest artist 2 ever walk the face of the earth, He Just Isn't

Prince was the visionary, but the images he worked with the individuals to come up with the 'protege' characters.

And as far as the fashion is concerned Prince mostly came up with the For U-Controversy look, by Controversy he had people creating the fashion/hair look. But he let his band members come up with their image for the band. Dez Dickerson came as is, and Prince pulled from Dez his own look in that time. That's why there are some eras that just were jacked up and other that were wonderful.

there are some periods for me that were too 'glossy' and polished looking like the Diamonds & Pears period for one, some were just a freaky mess like the Gold era. I personally love the Rave look but a lot of fans seem to hate it. I never cared to much for the suites of the 2000's overall but I do love his look of the 20Ten/Welcome 2... concerts

What about the other bands? Apollonia, Vanity, Mazarati, the Family? What are you trying to express through them?

Prince: A lot has to do with them. They come to me with an idea, and I try to bring that forth. I don't give them anything. I don't say, "Okay, you're going to do this, and you're going to do that." I mean, it was Morris' idea to be as sick as he was. That was his personality. We both like Don King and get a lot of stuff off him.

Why?

Prince: Because he's outrageous and thinks everything's so exciting --even when it isn't.

People think you control those bands, that it's similar to Rick James, relationship with the Mary Jane Girls. A lot of people think he's turning all the knobs.

Prince: I don't know their situation. But you look at Sheila E. performing, and you can just tell she's holding her own. The same goes for the Family. You and I were playing Ping-Pong, and they were doing just fine.

Spot on, OF4$.

"Prince is talented but..."

This post made me LOL.

Just another troll thread tbh...

Philly76 said:

"Prince is talented but..."

This post made me LOL.

Just another troll thread tbh...

u make point. sometimes thread. it's gayer than Elton/Maddy fued.

only one word : RIDICULOUS .... how could such nonsense thread have so much attention? Prince had enough hits without Wendy & Lisa & wrote big hits for other artists - i think for Prince ist sometimes hard to be Prince with this so called fans - to much negativity - not that i like every think from him but come on this thread is bs

OldFriends4Sale said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

I dunno, well known back then that Chick (ps security guard) sold pics/stories to media like national enquirer and the 2 friends got stuck in the show I always figured that was about Jam and Lewis. Coke part prolly about Chick, Morris? IDK? But I never thought that song had much to do about W/L?? How u get that???

It's not about Lisa Coleman, but the 1 line is about Wendy

They say U lost your fire
When another musician U hired
Little do they know, U wouldn't have passed go
Unless they could take U higher,

ya, that's the line i was referring to. That's the line that makes me think that Prince held Wendy and Lisa in high esteem. I still don't see it though, Wendy's "contribution" to Purple Rain was Pretty minor based on what she said on the Purple Rain DVD and I don't think either Wendy Or Lisa were great musicians. I thought Prince had to carry Lisa onstage because she couldn't play that well. And also, I've often wondered if the two white girls were an image thing a device rather than anything really artistic at all. I don't know, I'm big enough to say I don't know.

OldFriends4Sale said:

petes2 said:

I tend to agree but what keeps me from completely believing that are the lyrics from old friends for sale, I mean it's pretty obvious that he's speaking of wendly and lisa, at least to me and how some of his other people are tugging at him to leave them. Also, I've said it a million times, lots of musicians around Prince had one or two things working for them, none was the complete package that Prince was. I've heard people here, in the know, say that Jesse Johnson was responsible for introducing Prince to a prettier look and picking a color as a gimmick. Jesse did not have the whole package though, no one did but Prince. So to say these other people definitely had nothing to offer is just not true. W and L may have done some things which prince recognized as contributing to his music. We really don't know, we are too far away. But I'll say this, wendy and lisa in particular got bigheaded with the rolling stone covers and the movie and tried to push their own agendas too hard in trying to turn the band into what their vision was and I believe that is why Prince cut ties. I'd put money on that.

No the line is about Wendy vs Dez Dickerson (who left the band) and this is way prior to the ATWIAD album music release.

I don't know about Jesse introducing the color theme. I don't remember any pics of Prince wearing Purple until maybe Controversy(is that a purple coat?) but he did use purple in his lyrics that indicated it was a color of choice for him. 1976/77 outtake Leaving 4 New York, Sitting there on the purple lawn
U've been there since dawn

Well, Blackguitarist schooled me on that. I was saying that Jesse Johnson stole his whole act from Prince and that was why he couldn't "make it". But Blackguitarist told me that it was Jesse who came to Prince Pre-time with all that stuff already going, the color Pink the pretty look and then we have Prince prettying himself up more and more between controversy and Purple rain. Could very well be true, Prince stole whenever he felt like it.

OldFriends4Sale said:

EyeJester7 said:

Perfectly said! That's what makes Prince one of the greatest artists to ever walk the face of this earth! HE JUST IS!

I LOVE Prince, my head isn't up his or anyone else arse to say he is the greatest artist 2 ever walk the face of the earth, He Just Isn't

Prince was the visionary, but the images he worked with the individuals to come up with the 'protege' characters.

And as far as the fashion is concerned Prince mostly came up with the For U-Controversy look, by Controversy he had people creating the fashion/hair look. But he let his band members come up with their image for the band. Dez Dickerson came as is, and Prince pulled from Dez his own look in that time. That's why there are some eras that just were jacked up and other that were wonderful.

there are some periods for me that were too 'glossy' and polished looking like the Diamonds & Pears period for one, some were just a freaky mess like the Gold era. I personally love the Rave look but a lot of fans seem to hate it. I never cared to much for the suites of the 2000's overall but I do love his look of the 20Ten/Welcome 2... concerts

What about the other bands? Apollonia, Vanity, Mazarati, the Family? What are you trying to express through them?

Prince: A lot has to do with them. They come to me with an idea, and I try to bring that forth. I don't give them anything. I don't say, "Okay, you're going to do this, and you're going to do that." I mean, it was Morris' idea to be as sick as he was. That was his personality. We both like Don King and get a lot of stuff off him.

Why?

Prince: Because he's outrageous and thinks everything's so exciting --even when it isn't.

People think you control those bands, that it's similar to Rick James, relationship with the Mary Jane Girls. A lot of people think he's turning all the knobs.

Prince: I don't know their situation. But you look at Sheila E. performing, and you can just tell she's holding her own. The same goes for the Family. You and I were playing Ping-Pong, and they were doing just fine.

Prince contradicts himself whenever he feels like it, in the next RS interview or maybe it was even Spin during the Diamonds and Pearls era, Prince shows how he coached Morris to act just like Muhammad Ali showing him tapes to illustrate the attitude he wanted.

petes2 said:

ya, that's the line i was referring to. That's the line that makes me think that Prince held Wendy and Lisa in high esteem. I still don't see it though, Wendy's "contribution" to Purple Rain was Pretty minor based on what she said on the Purple Rain DVD and I don't think either Wendy Or Lisa were great musicians. I thought Prince had to carry Lisa onstage because she couldn't play that well. And also, I've often wondered if the two white girls were an image thing a device rather than anything really artistic at all. I don't know, I'm big enough to say I don't know.

Backing vox were 2nd to none Noon Rendezvous was heavenly!!! All My Dreams, Raspberry Beret, Anotherloverholeinyohead, Paisley Park, America, Pop Life, The Ladder, Take Me w/U, Purple Rain, Let's Go Crazy. P can have all the songs in the world but he needs the right band that sucks... and sells 20 million plus albums.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

petes2 said:

ya, that's the line i was referring to. That's the line that makes me think that Prince held Wendy and Lisa in high esteem. I still don't see it though, Wendy's "contribution" to Purple Rain was Pretty minor based on what she said on the Purple Rain DVD and I don't think either Wendy Or Lisa were great musicians. I thought Prince had to carry Lisa onstage because she couldn't play that well. And also, I've often wondered if the two white girls were an image thing a device rather than anything really artistic at all. I don't know, I'm big enough to say I don't know.

Backing vox were 2nd to none Noon Rendezvous was heavenly!!! All My Dreams, Raspberry Beret, Anotherloverholeinyohead, Paisley Park, America, Pop Life, The Ladder, Take Me w/U, Purple Rain, Let's Go Crazy. P can have all the songs in the world but he needs the right band that sucks... and sells 20 million plus albums.

your'e right, something to be said for chemistry. Elvis did his best work with a couple country bumpkins who couldn't do shit outside of Elvis' world to speak of. But with elvis the created a genre in rockabilly. Can't overlook that, and no one has i don't think. My favorite Prince era along with most people is those years but I wish there was a way to get a better picture of how much and who did what.

Ah, the eternal org battle...

Enjoy!

http://prince.org/msg/7/144786

http://prince.org/msg/7/11675

http://prince.org/msg/5/250897?&pg=1

http://prince.org/msg/7/29997?&pg=1

http://prince.org/msg/7/174380

http://prince.org/msg/7/351315

http://prince.org/msg/7/111011

http://prince.org/msg/5/326765

http://prince.org/msg/7/170056

http://prince.org/msg/5/279343

http://prince.org/msg/7/356396?&pg=1

SuperFurryAnimal said:

petes2 said:

ya, that's the line i was referring to. That's the line that makes me think that Prince held Wendy and Lisa in high esteem. I still don't see it though, Wendy's "contribution" to Purple Rain was Pretty minor based on what she said on the Purple Rain DVD and I don't think either Wendy Or Lisa were great musicians. I thought Prince had to carry Lisa onstage because she couldn't play that well. And also, I've often wondered if the two white girls were an image thing a device rather than anything really artistic at all. I don't know, I'm big enough to say I don't know.

Backing vox were 2nd to none Noon Rendezvous was heavenly!!! All My Dreams, Raspberry Beret, Anotherloverholeinyohead, Paisley Park, America, Pop Life, The Ladder, Take Me w/U, Purple Rain, Let's Go Crazy. P can have all the songs in the world but he needs the right band that sucks... and sells 20 million plus albums.

Dance Electric

Irresistable Bitch

Sometimes It Snows In April

4 the Tears in Your Eyes

and seperately I loved Lisa Coleman backing Prince

petes2 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No the line is about Wendy vs Dez Dickerson (who left the band) and this is way prior to the ATWIAD album music release.

I don't know about Jesse introducing the color theme. I don't remember any pics of Prince wearing Purple until maybe Controversy(is that a purple coat?) but he did use purple in his lyrics that indicated it was a color of choice for him. 1976/77 outtake Leaving 4 New York, Sitting there on the purple lawn
U've been there since dawn

Well, Blackguitarist schooled me on that. I was saying that Jesse Johnson stole his whole act from Prince and that was why he couldn't "make it". But Blackguitarist told me that it was Jesse who came to Prince Pre-time with all that stuff already going, the color Pink the pretty look and then we have Prince prettying himself up more and more between controversy and Purple rain. Could very well be true, Prince stole whenever he felt like it.