SUPRMAN said:

Harlepolis said:

If authority is making a habbit out of bullying me and mine, how the hell could I respect it?

I'm not saying the girls were in the right, but it certainly could've been handled better and waaay more drama-free.

So your position is, they didn't have to respect authority in the first place, so they didn't owe the police officer any respect or regard because of his uniform.

Does this apply to any and all authority, or just police?

So if a police tries to cite you period, they don't deserve your cooperation and respect as they try to do their job?

It could've been handled better if they had just accepted the citation for jaywalking which is against the law.

Respect goes both ways, I respect authority that shows me, a citizen respect, and I'll cooperate with them fully(like I always do).

But if somebody puts their hands on me or my loved ones, you damn right I'm going to react.

And you're absloutly right, accepting citation would've been better,,,,,,only in this case, he yanked the girl's arm like she's some kind of a wild dog on short leash instead of actually giving her a citation.

[Edited 6/21/10 9:47am]

DesireeNevermind said:

But guess what? I took my tickets and moved on with my life. Didn't suck my teeth, roll my eyes, curse under my breath, or do any other nonsense that could make matters worse.

See Purple this is why the cops have a bad rap. Why should you cussing or sucking your teeth or rolling your eye result in you getting your ass beat by a cop? WE ALL have to act accordingly and we all have to deal with stuff that we don't like but it should never get physical. This is why I side with the girls. As a cop...you should be trained to deal with different people and situations and you should know that there will be people who feel intimidated and/or threatened by you so why make matters worse for yourself by overeacting to some teenage bullcrap? He could have just gave them the ticket and went on about his business. If the girls didn't show up to court to contest or comply then it's their ass. However, HE being the professional and the elder was at fault for letting a simple jaywalking ticket get so far out of hand. Any day of the week somebody could cuss you out or roll their eyes at you or call out your name but you should NOT be so quick to hit them just because you don a badge and a gun. As for stereotypes...I think this cop may have had some stereotypes about black people which may have influenced his decision to ticket them in the first place. Like people have said...everybody jaywalks. Hell I've seen cops jaywalk.

[Edited 6/20/10 20:22pm]

Isn't that what he was trying to do?

How does he issue the citation/ticket, if they won't provide ID?

If you don't provide ID, you are subject to being detained until your ID can be established.

That's not the cops fault, problem or bias. It's their refusal to cooperate.

dseann said:

PurpleJedi said:

WRONG answer.

My cousin (hypothetically speaking) could've been robbed a dozen times in one week by a black man, but that STILL DOES NOT JUSTIFY the stereotype. IT DOES NOT.

I've been on this earth almost 40 years, and thankfully only been pulled over by a cop 4 times in my life. I'm pretty straight-laced but I sometimes have a lead foot.

Two of those were bastards. One was looking to fulfill his quota (come on now...10 miles over the speed limit???) and one was just a miserable MF'er (pulled me over for turning right on red, then proceeded to fucking ticket me for a busted tail light AND FOR HAVING SHIT HANGING OFF MY REAR VIEW MIRROR!!!!!!!!!!)

But guess what? I took my tickets and moved on with my life. Didn't suck my teeth, roll my eyes, curse under my breath, or do any other nonsense that could make matters worse.

The other two cops were normal human beings. One of them pulled me over for speeding and let me off with a warning, and the other (State Trooper) gave me the ticket (had me on radar) but told me what to do in order to get it reduced in court.

Doesn't make "your cousin's" stereotype justifiable but surely understandable.

I've never been arrested or even issued a parking ticket in life, but 99% of the cops I've ever encountered or seen deal with people are assholes like this coward in the video. I'm not asking you to agree with my opinion here in any way. I don't want any fucking cop around me in any capacity. They are(to me) the scum of the earth. If I saw on walking down the highway on fire on a rainy day, I wouldn't run my car over a puddle to put the fire out.

But yet you still rely on them to do their job to help improve your life.

if someone violated your rights or property, you would expect the cops to do their job regardless of how you generally feel and you would not expect them to take your feeling regarding law enforcement into account I'm guessing.

Harlepolis said:

Why should her incident with that boy be equated with what happend in the video though?

He's an "authority" figure with responsibilities to carry who(unlike her) should've known better.

She should have known better also.

bigwillpreacher said:

Harlepolis said:

Why should her incident with that boy be equated with what happend in the video though?

He's an "authority" figure with responsibilities to carry who(unlike her) should've known better.

I don't understand. Are you saying the only person involved in this drama that had responsibilities & should've known better is the police officer? Do you really want to give these two young adult ladies a pass? Why?

Here is their record to show you the results of not holding young adults accountable for their actions does:

Previous arrests

1) Rosenthal was charged in November with second-degree robbery. According to prosecutors, she punched a 15-year-old boy in the face while she and a group of youths were on their way to a rave in South Seattle last Aug. 28. The boy told police that his cellphone and $20 were stolen in the incident. A 14-year-old boy told police that he was punched in the head and his hat was stolen.

2) In April 2008, Rosenthal was charged with third-degree theft after she allegedly stole a minivan in Tukwila, prosecutors said. Kent police said she used a screwdriver to break the ignition and start the vehicle.

3) Levias was charged in February 2009 with third-degree assault after she allegedly pushed a King County sheriff's deputy down.

4) According to charging documents, on Feb. 3, 2009, deputies were called to the Ruth Dykeman Children's Center, a Burien center for troubled girls, in response to a report that Levias was being abusive toward staff.

Seattle Times reporters Janet Tu, Craig Welch and Linda Shaw and news researcher Miyoko Wolf contributed to this story.

She's a teenager. She's got hormones raging and isn't expected to know better or be accountable for her actions.

Her defiance or the law in general and authority wasn't know to the cop.

He just happened to pick a black girl to harass by enforcing the law.

Harlepolis said:

bigwillpreacher said:

I don't understand. Are you saying the only person involved in this drama that had responsibilities & should've known better is the police officer? Do you really want to give these two young adult ladies a pass? Why?

I already pointed out in my earlier post that they were WRONG too.

It has been established in this thread over & over that cops are trained to behave under pressure constructively, he could've snapped his fingers and told them to stand on the sidewalk instead of jaywalking, or at least give them a ticket like the rest of us go through.

But NO, he had to initiate the violence first by yanking that girl's arm, why the hell not? He's an authority figure, he's entitled to it. Should I disregard that just because somebody gave him a badge and gun? Every action has a reaction, for somebody who's considered as an authority figure, he didn't conduct the responsible way to handle this situation, so hell no, I'm not giving him a pass either.

Did he initiate the violence?

It started with verbal abuse which can be legally construed as violence as it puts one in fear of their safety.

Harlepolis said:

SUPRMAN said:

So your position is, they didn't have to respect authority in the first place, so they didn't owe the police officer any respect or regard because of his uniform.

Does this apply to any and all authority, or just police?

So if a police tries to cite you period, they don't deserve your cooperation and respect as they try to do their job?

It could've been handled better if they had just accepted the citation for jaywalking which is against the law.

Respect goes both ways, I respect authority that shows me, a citizen respect, and I'll cooperate with them fully(like I always do).

But if somebody puts their hands on me or my loved ones, you damn right I'm going to react.

And you're absloutly right, accepting citation would've been better,,,,,,only in this case, he yanked the girl's arm like she's some kind of a wild dog on short leash instead of actually giving her a citation.

[Edited 6/21/10 9:47am]

But what happened before he yanked her arm?

Was she walking away?

Were there already words being exchanged?

I doubt his initial response was to simply yank her arm . . . . .

SUPRMAN said:

Harlepolis said:

Why should her incident with that boy be equated with what happend in the video though?

He's an "authority" figure with responsibilities to carry who(unlike her) should've known better.

She should have known better also.

If you weren't hell bent on this selective perception of yours, you'd notice that I said they were wrong too.

Dewrede said:

i'm really appalled by the fools here that approve of this

[Edited 6/20/10 15:15pm]

and i am seriously disturbed by the growing culture that says this kind of behavior is okay. it is not okay. that gal needs to be seriously checked.

SUPRMAN said:

Harlepolis said:

I already pointed out in my earlier post that they were WRONG too.

It has been established in this thread over & over that cops are trained to behave under pressure constructively, he could've snapped his fingers and told them to stand on the sidewalk instead of jaywalking, or at least give them a ticket like the rest of us go through.

But NO, he had to initiate the violence first by yanking that girl's arm, why the hell not? He's an authority figure, he's entitled to it. Should I disregard that just because somebody gave him a badge and gun? Every action has a reaction, for somebody who's considered as an authority figure, he didn't conduct the responsible way to handle this situation, so hell no, I'm not giving him a pass either.

Did he initiate the violence?

It started with verbal abuse which can be legally construed as violence as it puts one in fear of their safety.

Right!

Her=Big mouth.

Him=Gun in his pocket.

Oh yeah, I could def see how she was a threat

And yes, he put his hands on her when he couldn't contain the situation being the person who was trained to be in such scenario, so therefore he was the one who initiated the violence.

Graycap23 said:

phunkdaddy said:

I practically live and work in one of the biggest cities in the South. I've never seen

the cops here harass someone for jaywalking. Go catch some real criminals like drug

dealers, child molestors, and criminals breaking into people homes.

They do it everyday of the week in Beverly Hill, Ca.

few years back i walked into the intersection of nicollet mall and fifth street in downtown mpls. i stepped off the curb just as the light turned to the 'don't walk' red hand. i did so right in front of a cop car. the cop who wasn't driving JUMPED out the car and ticketed me, and all the while that he did so the patrol car was blocking the pedestrian walkway, where a handicapped man in a wheelchair was trying to cross the street. cops ignored his ass in favor of ticketing me.

luckily, i wasn't stupid enough to object, or try to fight with the officers, even though i clearly had stepped off the curb on the green. even though the cops were blocking the wheelchair guy.

75$ is not worth that kind of drama.

dseann said:

shorttrini said:

To answer your last question first, my mom would have kicked my ass. This would have occured after she heard all of the facts. If it turns out that I was totally in the wrong, then an ass kicking would be expected. But again, his actions were a clear example of him abusing his authority. In which case, my mom would have probably sought legal action. While she did punch a 15 year old boy in the face, we do not know for what? He might have hit her first, which might not have been mentioned. As I mentioned before, this cop hit her with a closed fist. This was totally unnecessary, for a jaywalking collar. He could have slapped or pepper sprayed her, which would have calmed her down.

Trini we tight, but I don't ever condone violence towards women. I've been attacked by an angry "black" woman before and I never ever thought of hitting her in any way. He could have faked pulling his gun, which would have stopped her dead in her tracks then handcuffed her. He didn't need to hit her. Seeing shit like that makes my blood boil.

Oh believe me, it makes my blood boil too. The only reason why I mentioned slapping was because, even though it is still a harsh thing to do, it would be the lesser alternative to him punching her. I am having this very same discussion on facebook with a few of my friends. They are of the opinion that the cop did the right thing and she deserved what she got. I just think that it could have been handled differently, especially when you consider that this started due to Jwalking.

Harlepolis said:

SUPRMAN said:

She should have known better also.

If you weren't hell bent on this selective perception of yours, you'd notice that I said they were wrong too.

I have noticed that you said they were wrong.

But you still seem to defend their actions.

But their actions led to a physical altercation which they could have avoided by merely cooperating.

Harlepolis said:

SUPRMAN said:

Did he initiate the violence?

It started with verbal abuse which can be legally construed as violence as it puts one in fear of their safety.

Right!

Her=Big mouth.

Him=Gun in his pocket.

Oh yeah, I could def see how she was a threat

And yes, he put his hands on her when he couldn't contain the situation being the person who was trained to be in such scenario, so therefore he was the one who initiated the violence.

So if she is walking away from him what are his options?

Not issue the citation since she just walked away?

That just undermines his authority.
How does he go about detaining her if she won't/can't provide ID to allow him to issue a citation.

Nothing says a cop can't ever put his hands on you.

TonyVanDam said:

Shyra said:

Sure, there are police officers who take their positions with a bit more omnipotence than necessary, but I still believe that if stopped by an officer, you give him no reason to get agressive with you. If you speak with respect and act accordingly, I don't think the majority of officers will treat you badly. Remember, the police have a tough and dangerous job. They have to quickly assess a situation, and that in itself can be difficult to do when you have a crowd forming that can quickly grow into a mob. I still think the officer acted appropriately. I don't care what he would have done to that girl, tazed, maced, slapped, pushed to the ground, whatever. Someone is always going to scream "POLICE BRUTALITY!" If the girl had been white and the officer black, this would have gone a whole different directlion. If the girl and the police officer were white, would we be having this discussion at all? Probably none of the black folk here would have given a rat's ass...

Are you kidding me?!? If the female suspect was white and the officer was black, the controversy would have been far worse. Why? Because by then, the attitudes of the white establishment (counting Tea Partiers, white rednecks, Angry White Men, Fox News, etc.) would've typcast this dude with the Mandigo Conplex.

At your eye roll. I agree with you!

laurarichardson said:

TonyVanDam said:

Are you kidding me?!? If the female suspect was white and the officer was black, the controversy would have been far worse. Why? Because by then, the attitudes of the white establishment (counting Tea Partiers, white rednecks, Angry White Men, Fox News, etc.) would've typcast this dude with the Mandigo Conplex.

Well the girl on the advice of her pastor apologized to the officer.

Well that's on the girl and her idiot pastor.

And hell yeah, I think her Sunday-keeping pastor is a freaking idiot. Why the f*** is he/she going to tell the girl to apology without any promises that the officer was also going to publicily apologize for punching her dead in the face. Somehow, I smell bullshit in this drama.

[Edited 6/21/10 10:48am]

Harlepolis said:

SUPRMAN said:

So your position is, they didn't have to respect authority in the first place, so they didn't owe the police officer any respect or regard because of his uniform.

Does this apply to any and all authority, or just police?

So if a police tries to cite you period, they don't deserve your cooperation and respect as they try to do their job?

It could've been handled better if they had just accepted the citation for jaywalking which is against the law.

Respect goes both ways, I respect authority that shows me, a citizen respect, and I'll cooperate with them fully(like I always do).

But if somebody puts their hands on me or my loved ones, you damn right I'm going to react.

And you're absloutly right, accepting citation would've been better,,,,,,only in this case, he yanked the girl's arm like she's some kind of a wild dog on short leash instead of actually giving her a citation.

[Edited 6/21/10 9:47am]

So far, this whole thread reminds me of 1992 all over again. This rap song by Ice Cube comes to mind for some reason:

U Ain't Gonna Take My Life

Mr. Dirty Harry, you look really scary
With your .357, officer Kevin
Spent 11 years on the force trying to get mine
Head got the flat top, boots got the spit shine
Don't give a fuck about my neighborhood
Just wanna do your eight hours, then hit the showers
Shoot a brother down adn you don't send flowers
Goddamn sherrif, can't wait to tarriff
A chunk of a nigga ass, but watch a nigga blast
And get away nigga fast
You ain't gonna have me face down no more
You ain't gonna have a chance to clown no more
To the boys in blue, I got kids too
Ain't going out like a jigaboo, no no no
On my way to the store
You see me in a Range Rover, now you gotta pull me over
But where oh where is the ticket?
You got your hand on your gun cause you're wicked
You don't like the face of the original man
But you gotta treat me like an individual man
Talk right and I'll talk right back
Show some goddamn respect to the black
Cause I gotta get back to my wife
But I'm sorry, you ain't gonna take my life

Just because you got a badge
Did you think Ice Cube was gonna wave the white flag?
Cracker please, you can yell freeze
I'd rather die standing up than die on my knees
You think you can do anything you want to do
To my crew when you come through, man fuck you
Shooting up South Central
Catch your ass slipping at a rent show
Could have popped you off, one dead cop
But I know you got a wife and a dog named Spot
I show a little mercy cause I'm civilized
Looking through a nigga's eyes at a much bigger prize
But when I saw Rodney it got me so hot
Made me wanna go out and pop me a cop
Cause every time you see me sagging
Here comes the Grand Dragon, in the motherfucking patty wagon
Try to play me like a trick
Sometimes you act like a dick, Mr. Nightstick
Back then, I used to throw my Mack-10
But nowadays you got the black skin
Back then you don't like the voice of a nigga named Ice
But you ain't gonna take my life

You man let's get an understanding
I know that your job is demanding
But I only got me one life to live
You only got about six shots to give
And I got a big AK with a 50-round clip
So why should we trip?
You ain't gonna punk me, so what you trying for?
Ain't no job worth dying for, is it?
Might pay a visit to Petey Wheatstraw
When you stop me on the shore, officer of the law
And if I did something wrong, you can lock me up
Never never never gonna sock me up
So next time you have the urge, all of the sudden
To fuck with a nigga for nothing
Think about me, a brother that's 23
I got a son and a J-O-B
So before you pull your gun, you'd better think twice
Pig, cause you ain't gonna take my life

Harlepolis said:

SUPRMAN said:

So your position is, they didn't have to respect authority in the first place, so they didn't owe the police officer any respect or regard because of his uniform.

Does this apply to any and all authority, or just police?

So if a police tries to cite you period, they don't deserve your cooperation and respect as they try to do their job?

It could've been handled better if they had just accepted the citation for jaywalking which is against the law.

Respect goes both ways, I respect authority that shows me, a citizen respect, and I'll cooperate with them fully(like I always do).

But if somebody puts their hands on me or my loved ones, you damn right I'm going to react.

And you're absloutly right, accepting citation would've been better,,,,,,only in this case, he yanked the girl's arm like she's some kind of a wild dog on short leash instead of actually giving her a citation.

[Edited 6/21/10 9:47am]

Which is what this young lady did,...she reacted & got a fist in her face for assaulting an officer. Please don't let this happen to you or approve of this type of behavior to the next generation of young people growing up. The police are always always trained to keep the upper hand on unruly citizens & if you think you are going to physically fight against a sworn officer of the law...you are asking for more trouble than just being civil & cooperating.

Addressing those still making this a "jaywalking issue." The police will take a murderer into custody with no incident as long as the criminal surrenders without resistance. If I am being cited for throwing bubble gum on the sidewalk and I decide I don't respect the officer & try to resist...I then become guilty of a bigger charge than littering. If I physically fight with the officer and get tazed,...it is misleading to say I got tazed over a littering issue.

One's terrible cop. One's a dumb woman. EVERYONE WINS LOSES!

The relationship between minority communities and law enforcement has always been sour.

Officer = Overseer.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

DesireeNevermind said:

The relationship between minority communities and law enforcement has always been sour.

Officer = Overseer.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Officer = Overseer really very offensive to the people that lived in bondage. There just is no valid comparison.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

DesireeNevermind said:

The relationship between minority communities and law enforcement has always been sour.

Officer = Overseer.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Officer = Overseer really very offensive to the people that lived in bondage. There just is no valid comparison.

Offensive to which people that lived in bondage? You actually think overseers from the slavery era were overall good people? Puh...leeze!!!!

DesireeNevermind said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Officer = Overseer really very offensive to the people that lived in bondage. There just is no valid comparison.

Offensive to which people that lived in bondage? You actually think overseers from the slavery era were overall good people? Puh...leeze!!!!

you seem to have completely misunderstood what I said. To say that police are the same as overseers (I assumed slave overseers so maybe I misread your post?) is offensive to what slaves went through. I was in no way comparing cops to overseers. I was saying they are not at all simulator much less identical as the 'Officer = Overseer' indicates.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

DesireeNevermind said:

Offensive to which people that lived in bondage? You actually think overseers from the slavery era were overall good people? Puh...leeze!!!!

you seem to have completely misunderstood what I said. To say that police are the same as overseers (I assumed slave overseers so maybe I misread your post?) is offensive to what slaves went through. I was in no way comparing cops to overseers. I was saying they are not at all simulator much less identical as the 'Officer = Overseer' indicates.

In terms of abuse of authority I say they are similar. That's why I added the more things change the more things stay the same. Abuse by those entrusted with "upholding the law" still happens and it seems to happen in greater proportion when the officer is not of the same community as the people he is supposed to be protecting and/or disciplining for lack of a better word.

Funny that the words even sound similar. What's the origin of the word "Officer"?

DesireeNevermind said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

you seem to have completely misunderstood what I said. To say that police are the same as overseers (I assumed slave overseers so maybe I misread your post?) is offensive to what slaves went through. I was in no way comparing cops to overseers. I was saying they are not at all simulator much less identical as the 'Officer = Overseer' indicates.

In terms of abuse of authority I say they are similar. That's why I added the more things change the more things stay the same. Abuse by those entrusted with "upholding the law" still happens and it seems to happen in greater proportion when the officer is not of the same community as the people he is supposed to be protecting and/or disciplining for lack of a better word.

I do not agree that they are even simular. Are there some a holes that are cops? YES Are there racist cops? YES! But I will accept it as being from your point of view. But again you did say they were identical.

Funny that the words even sound similar. What's the origin of the word "Officer"?

I do not know. But I am going to go out on a limb and say whatever origin you think it is is not true. Like the myth on the word "picnic."

OnlyNDaUsa said:

DesireeNevermind said:

In terms of abuse of authority I say they are similar. That's why I added the more things change the more things stay the same. Abuse by those entrusted with "upholding the law" still happens and it seems to happen in greater proportion when the officer is not of the same community as the people he is supposed to be protecting and/or disciplining for lack of a better word.

I do not agree that they are even simular. Are there some a holes that are cops? YES Are there racist cops? YES! But I will accept it as being from your point of view. But again you did say they were identical.

Funny that the words even sound similar. What's the origin of the word "Officer"?

I do not know. But I am going to go out on a limb and say whatever origin you think it is is not true. Like the myth on the word "picnic."

I have no idea of the word origin for Officer so don't bother with that limb. What's the myth behind picnic?

DesireeNevermind said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

you seem to have completely misunderstood what I said. To say that police are the same as overseers (I assumed slave overseers so maybe I misread your post?) is offensive to what slaves went through. I was in no way comparing cops to overseers. I was saying they are not at all simulator much less identical as the 'Officer = Overseer' indicates.

In terms of abuse of authority I say they are similar. That's why I added the more things change the more things stay the same. Abuse by those entrusted with "upholding the law" still happens and it seems to happen in greater proportion when the officer is not of the same community as the people he is supposed to be protecting and/or disciplining for lack of a better word.

Funny that the words even sound similar. What's the origin of the word "Officer"?

Overseers were not entrusted with "upholding the law."

They supervised workers.

DesireeNevermind said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I have no idea of the word origin for Officer so don't bother with that limb. What's the myth behind picnic?

looks like officer goes back to 14th century Latin and referred to military leaders.

There is a myth that picnic goes back to the practice of having a family outing in which a person would be lynched. So you would pick a N to murder. The word comes from 15th century french and has something to do with eating.

SUPRMAN said:

DesireeNevermind said:

In terms of abuse of authority I say they are similar. That's why I added the more things change the more things stay the same. Abuse by those entrusted with "upholding the law" still happens and it seems to happen in greater proportion when the officer is not of the same community as the people he is supposed to be protecting and/or disciplining for lack of a better word.

Funny that the words even sound similar. What's the origin of the word "Officer"?

Overseers were not entrusted with "upholding the law."

They supervised workers.

They were entrusted with upholding the slave master's law. His laws about labor, punishment if the slave disobeyed, his laws about humane or inhumane treatment. Laws are not strictly about what a judiciary body enforces. Hell...ever heard of law of the jungle? Employment/Labor law? Parental law? Jeez Sup must you always be so literal? Tomato...Tomata!