OperatingThetan said:

Lovejunky said:

With his clothes on Backwards?

I doubt it

It wasn't uncommon for Prince to wear his trousers and tops on backwards. This has been reported by various associates. Prince was found wearing the same clothes he wore to his medical appointment the day before. This clothing is clearly visible on both sets of footage and is documented and itemised in the reports. Unless Prince passed away naked or semi-clothed and Kirk dressed him before he was found by others, he would've been wearing those clothes backwards when the tragedy occured. If, and this is only speculation and rumour, Kirk did dress Prince to preserve his dignity I can only perceive that as an act of love. But I'm highly doubtful he did given the clothing Prince was discovered in was exactly what he was wearing when he was last seen alive. * [Edited 4/23/18 5:18am]

Where did you read that? I never read anywhere it was common for Prince to wear his clothes backwards. Inside out maybe, I know many people who do that with socks and undershirts because of the seams, but I never heard of wearing clothes backwards.

I also find it strange that his gloves and jacket were on the floor.

In the report there's mention of people believing/hearing from others that Kirk might have found him in bed, cleaned him and put him in the elevator. Sheila E questioned Kirk about that on the day she arrived and he denied it. Someone else mentioned it, don't recall who. Can someone help?

[Edited 4/23/18 6:27am]

Right -- we've seen the pics of his body (those who've chosen to look at them). There's nothing obviously off about his clothihg; it looks normal. He was wearin a jacket/overshirt and that was on normally, and the ME' reported that underwear was on normally. Per the ME in the police report, the "backwards" clothes were just the t-shirt and pants, which appeared not to have an obvious front or back (the pants were pullon, for example).

-

The "speculation" that Kirk stripped, bathed and redressed his dead body is not something included in any police report.

-

The person who asked Kirk about him finding prince in bed was Mani, who said she "heard it from somewhere." He laughed and said no.

OperatingThetan said:

Lovejunky said:

With his clothes on Backwards?

I doubt it

It wasn't uncommon for Prince to wear his trousers and tops on backwards. This has been reported by various associates. Prince was found wearing the same clothes he wore to his medical appointment the day before. This clothing is clearly visible on both sets of footage and is documented and itemised in the reports. Unless Prince passed away naked or semi-clothed and Kirk dressed him before he was found by others, he would've been wearing those clothes backwards when the tragedy occured. If, and this is only speculation and rumour, Kirk did dress Prince to preserve his dignity I can only perceive that as an act of love. But I'm highly doubtful he did given the clothing Prince was discovered in was exactly what he was wearing when he was last seen alive. * [Edited 4/23/18 5:18am]

[Edited 4/23/18 6:42am]

They served a warrant to google. I kind of skimmed this part of the report (someone else may have read it more closely) but I believe google said the deleted emails would be stored on a US server only for a brief period of time. There was the possibility they were stored on servers outside the US but the US warrants didn't cover international retrievals.

-

I may not have got that quite right. Please chime in with corrections if so.

Rebeljuice said:

When files are deleted from a computer they can be restored by data recovery software that is readily available on the market. Especially if it has recently been deleted and was one of the last tasks performed on the computer.

However, if Prince accessed his Gmail account through his browser and his emails were deleted through the browser, then the deleted files are not on his computer and are rather on the Google servers. It may be possible to retrieve the info through broweser caches, but the best way would be to approach Google with a warrant and ask to see the deleted emails. google keep backups of accounts on their servers. Not sure why this was not done.

disch said:

Right -- we've seen the pics of his body (those who've chosen to look at them). There's nothing obviously off about his clothihg; it looks normal. He was wearin a jacket/overshirt and that was on normally, and the ME' reported that underwear was on normally. Per the ME in the police report, the "backwards" clothes were just the t-shirt and pants, which appeared not to have an obvious front or back (the pants were pullon, for example).

-

The "speculation" that Kirk stipped, bathed and redressed his dead body is not something included in any police report.

-

The person who asked Kirk about him finding prince in bed was Mani, who said she "heard it from somewhere." He laughed and said no.

OperatingThetan said:

Lovejunky said: It wasn't uncommon for Prince to wear his trousers and tops on backwards. This has been reported by various associates. Prince was found wearing the same clothes he wore to his medical appointment the day before. This clothing is clearly visible on both sets of footage and is documented and itemised in the reports. Unless Prince passed away naked or semi-clothed and Kirk dressed him before he was found by others, he would've been wearing those clothes backwards when the tragedy occured. If, and this is only speculation and rumour, Kirk did dress Prince to preserve his dignity I can only perceive that as an act of love. But I'm highly doubtful he did given the clothing Prince was discovered in was exactly what he was wearing when he was last seen alive. * [Edited 4/23/18 5:18am]

[Edited 4/23/18 6:35am]

it says the tshirt had the sleeves cut off.....and the pants do look like they are on backward and do look lke that would be uncomfortable

206Michelle said:

MMJas said:

Can you provide the link with the full press conference, please, Precioux?

I find what you say here interesting, cause the detective could have had his hunches and suspicions but if he was not able to make good on them and prove them, then he was left with a closed case. i think.

https://youtu.be/xw1-JPdyDAo Prosecutor: Evidence shows Prince thought he was taking Vicodin, not Fentanyl The video is on the CBS News YouTube channel.

Thanks.

Honestly I couldn't tell that about the pants. In the photos, they were sort of bunched up (from him being moved and having those electrodes attached to his legs perhaps) so I couldn't say if they looked uncomfortable or different than normal.

80tomato said:

disch said:

Right -- we've seen the pics of his body (those who've chosen to look at them). There's nothing obviously off about his clothihg; it looks normal. He was wearin a jacket/overshirt and that was on normally, and the ME' reported that underwear was on normally. Per the ME in the police report, the "backwards" clothes were just the t-shirt and pants, which appeared not to have an obvious front or back (the pants were pullon, for example).

-

The "speculation" that Kirk stipped, bathed and redressed his dead body is not something included in any police report.

-

The person who asked Kirk about him finding prince in bed was Mani, who said she "heard it from somewhere." He laughed and said no.

[Edited 4/23/18 6:35am]

it says the tshirt had the sleeves cut off.....and the pants do look like they are on backward and do look lke that would be uncomfortable

MMJas said:

I'll try to find the article regarding the clothing.

There's no suggestion in the reports that Prince was found in bed to my observation. The suggestion from Mani seemed to be that she'd 'heard' Prince may have been found in an undignified state and that Kirk had dressed or cleaned up before calling for help. This is only a rumour however, and as we all know Mani was not there.

I cannot imagine Kirk staging Prince in the elevator and for what purpose. Also, fluids were found in the elevator and other details seem to indicate Prince laying in the same position for some time.

disch said:

Ya. This reminded me of the same thing he did with Mayte (according to her book).

disch said:

Agreed. Unfortunately, it is all too tragic and clear.

Mani obviously was not at the scene at the time and had not been involved in Prince's life for a decade or so.

These situations are bound to create speculations and rumours - that doesn't mean they have any credibility. It is even stated that the police received information from psychics. Sinead's delusional report is also included and we're all aware she subsequently apologised for some of these accusations and retracted them following legal threats from Arsenio Hall.

the Mani quote was just that she'd "heard" Kirk had moved him from his bed, not that he'd bathed him and all that. And Kirk denied it and there was no mention of that theory in the documents.

OperatingThetan said:

MMJas said:

Where did you read that? I never read anywhere it was common for Prince to wear his clothes backwards. Inside out maybe, I know many people who do that with socks and undershirts because of the seams, but I never heard of wearing clothes backwards.

I also find it strange that his gloves and jacket were on the floor.

In the report there's mention of people believing/hearing from others that Kirk might have found him in bed, cleaned him and put him in the elevator. Sheila E questioned Kirk about that on the day she arrived and he denied it. Someone else mentioned it, don't recall who. Can someone help?

[Edited 4/23/18 6:27am]

I'll try to find the article regarding the clothing. There's no suggestion in the reports that Prince was found in bed to my observation. The suggestion from Mani seemed to be that she'd 'heard' Prince may have been found in an undignified state and that Kirk had dressed or cleaned up before calling for help. This is only a rumour however, and as we all know Mani was not there. I cannot imagine Kirk staging Prince in the elevator and for what purpose. Also, fluids were found in the elevator and other details seem to indicate Prince laying in the same position for some time.

ThatWhiteDude said:

And IMHO they weren't worried about protecting P..He was dead..yet they still lied,tried to get people not to talk,pretended they didn't know he had a problem..They weren't loyal to him..Even people who he hadn't talked to in years did nothing to help..and they knew for YEARS..Every single one of them..If Im wrong please point out 1 person who went public and said he needs help,as I have no doubt he was stubborn.Nobody did.. because of $..And that is heartbreaking

The thing about his shirt sleeves being cut off doesn't bring any questions to my mind. I know and see men and women with the sleeves to their t-shirts cut off all the time. I've even done it before because I don't like how they bunch up when I layer another shirt/sweater/sweatshirt over it.

ThatWhiteDude said:

And IMHO they weren't worried about protecting P..He was dead..yet they still lied,tried to get people not to talk,pretended they didn't know he had a problem..They weren't loyal to him..Even people who he hadn't talked to in years did nothing to help..and they knew for YEARS..Every single one of them..If Im wrong please point out 1 person who went public and said he needs help,as I have no doubt he was stubborn.Nobody did.. because of $..And that is heartbreaking

disch said:

the Mani quote was just that she'd "heard" Kirk had moved him from his bed, not that he'd bathed him and all that. And Kirk denied it and there was no mention of that theory in the documents.

OperatingThetan said:

MMJas said: I'll try to find the article regarding the clothing. There's no suggestion in the reports that Prince was found in bed to my observation. The suggestion from Mani seemed to be that she'd 'heard' Prince may have been found in an undignified state and that Kirk had dressed or cleaned up before calling for help. This is only a rumour however, and as we all know Mani was not there. I cannot imagine Kirk staging Prince in the elevator and for what purpose. Also, fluids were found in the elevator and other details seem to indicate Prince laying in the same position for some time.

Yes there was, Disch. Page 191, number 24. Sheila E told the detective that when she went to PP, she was told by someone who she cannot recall who it was, that Kirk had found Prince in his bedroom, dressed him and moved him to the elevator. She confronted Kirk about it and he laughed and denied it.

He sure seems to laugh a lot when asked stuff, imo.

precioux said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/glanton/ct-met-prince-friends-dahleen-glanton-20180420-story.html Prince's "friends" were enablers

“But sometimes enablers don’t care about you at all..they want you to be so dependent on them that you always keep them around.” - perfect defenition oh KJ. Maybe we should’ve LISTENED to prizefight (order on here that was in the immediate circle at one time,but lasted maybe a week before getting bullied off) Prizefight told it like it was -but certain ones here couldn’t handle it...NOW, everything prizefight said has come to fruition in

THANK YOU for mentioning prizefight, Precioux...I have saved her posts and recently read them again, and you are SO right...EVERYONE in the 'inner circle' knew...don't forget, she was bullied off this site (LR, are you feeling my wrath?) BECAUSE SHE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

Ah thanks MM! I didn't see that quote from Sheila, just the mani one. Or maybe I just got it mixed up completely and only Sheila spoke to this.

MMJas said:

disch said:

the Mani quote was just that she'd "heard" Kirk had moved him from his bed, not that he'd bathed him and all that. And Kirk denied it and there was no mention of that theory in the documents.

Yes there was, Disch. Page 191, number 24. Sheila E told the detective that when she went to PP, she was told by someone who she cannot recall who it was, that Kirk had found Prince in his bedroom, dressed him and moved him to the elevator. She confronted Kirk about it and he laughed and denied it.

He sure seems to laugh a lot when asked stuff, imo.

[Edited 4/23/18 7:13am]

I think Prince thought the OD on the plane was due to him mixing his pills. He told JH as much. I think he took a fentanyl laced pill and one of those Tylenol/Codeine pills that he declared to the docs in Moline. It took 4mg of narcan to revive him. That is a lot. If he was convinced the OD was due to the mixing (afterall, the fentanyl pill was labeled as a more innocent Vicodin), he may well have thought the "Vicodin" pills were safe on their own. Hence why he reached for them again.


As his fans we have always thought Prince to be clean living and above the temptations of drugs, alchohol, cigarettes and even meat. We have all been proud of our favourite artist's clean living and often used to mention it when in discussion with non fans. So many greats have died of drug over doses and we were proud that our Prince was not like that. This is why the last two years have been tough. This is also why so many of us have come up with conspiracy theories and alternative realities to try and explain what seems inexplicable. Prince was an habitual drug user? Impossible!

Well, the facts are in. There was no underlying illness. There was no conspiracy for murder. This was not a new problem that started a year or two before his death. Prince was addicted to opioids for a long time and his denial combined with his need for utter secrecy meant that there was no help for him until it was too late. Our clean living Prince wasn't as clean as we thought and in a way that really pisses me off.

I have no doubt it all started with pain. But as someone pointed out in this thread, it seemed that pain was no longer at the forefront of the problem. Prince was simply addicted and needed his drugs to prevent the chaos of withdrawals. I don't think it was about obtaining a high. Opioids are not like heroin or extacy or acid. There isn't really a high as such. But when you get to the stage where you need to take the pills in order to function normally, then you know there is a problem. Without the pills all hell breaks loose. With them life can almost feel normal. Not entirely normal mind you because there are side affects and consequences - constipation, sleeplessness, paranoia, groginess etc. But those side affects are a lot more palitable than withdrawals. And when you think you are in control and in denial about the extent of the problem, there is no reason to seek help.

Maybe someone will grow some balls and tell the truth behind it all one day. Or maybe there isn't anyone to tell the truth behind it all because no one actually knows the full extent of his problems - just how Prince wanted it. And that is what pisses me off. Prince painted a clean living image of himself and put everything at risk to keep that persona alive, even when the walls were crumbling down around him. He would rather be a hypocrite and lie than hold his hand up and say "ok, I got a few issues. im gonna go away for a while, get well and come back even stronger". But he didn't.

After two years of speculation and guess work to try and make Prince, the persona, fit into this drug narrative, we end up back where we started. The only real story here is the one that came out the day he died - Prince died of a drug overdose. And that is all there is to it because if you are addicted to any kind of drug, there is a very good chance that drug will kill you in the end, especially if you deny there is a problem and refuse help from anyone. The hows and whys dont really matter anymore. An investigation took place and there was nothing to find except a deeply secretive drug user who had trouble facing up to his problems. Prince was an addict that lost the fight. It's as simple as that.

MMJas said:

She couldn't recall who told her? Yeah right..Just like she told Judith not to say too much.. WHY were they are roaming freely thru P.P. on the 23rd?

Purplebflogirl said:

What about Mani's post in 2011? Or the people who got blocked in 2016? Mayte was one of the them. There's nothing These two could've done because they were being blocked from others and I tend to believe it was KJ and Maron who blocked these people. You can't blame everyone especially if some didn't have the Chance to get through him

Sheila did know but told Judith to lie and that they could lawyer her Up.

MMJas said:

She couldn't recall who told her? Yeah right..Just like she told Judith not to say too much.. WHY were they are roaming freely thru P.P. on the 23rd?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

precioux said:

ThatWhiteDude said: “But sometimes enablers don’t care about you at all..they want you to be so dependent on them that you always keep them around.” - perfect defenition oh KJ. Maybe we should’ve LISTENED to prizefight (order on here that was in the immediate circle at one time,but lasted maybe a week before getting bullied off) Prizefight told it like it was -but certain ones here couldn’t handle it...NOW, everything prizefight said has come to fruition in

THANK YOU for mentioning prizefight, Precioux...I have saved her posts and recently read them again, and you are SO right...EVERYONE in the 'inner circle' knew...don't forget, she was bullied off this site (LR, are you feeling my wrath?) BECAUSE SHE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

I don't remember what she said now.

kmama07 said:

The thing about his shirt sleeves being cut off doesn't bring any questions to my mind. I know and see men and women with the sleeves to their t-shirts cut off all the time. I've even done it before because I don't like how they bunch up when I layer another shirt/sweater/sweatshirt over it.

Agree. Cutting up t-shirts is not weird. Many people do it. Judith said his undershirt was inside out, not all his clothes. Backwards and inside out are 2 different things in the first place.

There was a photo shoot where they cut the sleeves and neck on a black shirt he was wearing.

ThatWhiteDude said:

http://www.chicagotribune...story.html Prince's "friends" were enablers

harsh but true.

I think the part I bolded below is a very plausible interpretation of why he took more of those "vicodin." He simply didn't know that these particular pills were lethal on their own. I think he had used prescription opioids enought the thought he understood very well how they worked (he told judith he knew his body well) and he knew that vicodin didn't normally trigger an OD like that in him. And as far as he knew, these were normal vicodin.

Rebeljuice said:

I think Prince thought the OD on the plane was due to him mixing his pills. He told JH as much. I think he took a fentanyl laced pill and one of those Tylenol/Codeine pills that he declared to the docs in Moline. It took 4mg of narcan to revive him. That is a lot. If he was convinced the OD was due to the mixing (afterall, the fentanyl pill was labeled as a more innocent Vicodin), he may well have thought the "Vicodin" pills were safe on their own. Hence why he reached for them again.


As his fans we have always thought Prince to be clean living and above the temptations of drugs, alchohol, cigarettes and even meat. We have all been proud of our favourite artist's clean living and often used to mention it when in discussion with non fans. So many greats have died of drug over doses and we were proud that our Prince was not like that. This is why the last two years have been tough. This is also why so many of us have come up with conspiracy theories and alternative realities to try and explain what seems inexplicable. Prince was an habitual drug user? Impossible!

Well, the facts are in. There was no underlying illness. There was no conspiracy for murder. This was not a new problem that started a year or two before his death. Prince was addicted to opioids for a long time and his denial combined with his need for utter secrecy meant that there was no help for him until it was too late. Our clean living Prince wasn't as clean as we thought and in a way that really pisses me off.

I have no doubt it all started with pain. But as someone pointed out in this thread, it seemed that pain was no longer at the forefront of the problem. Prince was simply addicted and needed his drugs to prevent the chaos of withdrawals. I don't think it was about obtaining a high. Opioids are not like heroin or extacy or acid. There isn't really a high as such. But when you get to the stage where you need to take the pills in order to function normally, then you know there is a problem. Without the pills all hell breaks loose. With them life can almost feel normal. Not entirely normal mind you because there are side affects and consequences - constipation, sleeplessness, paranoia, groginess etc. But those side affects are a lot more palitable than withdrawals. And when you think you are in control and in denial about the extent of the problem, there is no reason to seek help.

Maybe someone will grow some balls and tell the truth behind it all one day. Or maybe there isn't anyone to tell the truth behind it all because no one actually knows the full extent of his problems - just how Prince wanted it. And that is what pisses me off. Prince painted a clean living image of himself and put everything at risk to keep that persona alive, even when the walls were crumbling down around him. He would rather be a hypocrite and lie than hold his hand up and say "ok, I got a few issues. im gonna go away for a while, get well and come back even stronger". But he didn't.

After two years of speculation and guess work to try and make Prince, the persona, fit into this drug narrative, we end up back where we started. The only real story here is the one that came out the day he died - Prince died of a drug overdose. And that is all there is to it because if you are addicted to any kind of drug, there is a very good chance that drug will kill you in the end, especially if you deny there is a problem and refuse help from anyone. The hows and whys dont really matter anymore. An investigation took place and there was nothing to find except a deeply secretive drug user who had trouble facing up to his problems. Prince was an addict that lost the fight. It's as simple as that.

ThatWhiteDude said:

Mani was blocked from speaking publicly?
Impossible..

kmama07 said:

The thing about his shirt sleeves being cut off doesn't bring any questions to my mind. I know and see men and women with the sleeves to their t-shirts cut off all the time. I've even done it before because I don't like how they bunch up when I layer another shirt/sweater/sweatshirt over it.

Thank you kmama, that makes sense....I was just reading all the speculation that Kirk may have dressed P and I thought if his arms were already stiff then cutting the sleeves would make putting the t shirt on easier...but then he had another shirt over that so...

Rebeljuice said:

Sad but true

disch said:

I agree with you. But the folks who are positing "deathly illness" are alluding to conditions like cancer, AIDS -- not solely addiction.

206Michelle said:

My guess is that his addiction to painkillers was the illness. I believe that addiction is a disease or an illness. He was dependent on opioid painkillers for years, and eventually, the dependence turned into addiction and put Prince in a downward spiral where the addiction took on a life of its own. He may have also been experiencing depression or anxiety. Addiction, depression, and anxiety are all conditions that require treatment for healing to occur. They are not character flaws, but rather, chronic conditions that require treatment. disch said:

Disch: Some here may have "posited" he was deathly ill but there's not a lick of information in this report that supports that. There's no record of doctors visits (or even a regular doctor) other than the few Dr S visits, no prescribed medications other than the Dr S stuff, nothing. And this deathy illness apparently whizzed right by the doctors in Moline and Dr S, who made no mention of it (and of course Prince apparently didn't mention this supposed terminal illness to Dr S either, even though Prince was voluntarily visiting him to get relief from his various complaints, and that might be pertinent info. Prince did disclose his hip surgery and even his wisdom-teeth removal to him).

The PERFECT refutation of the illness theory in a nutshell!!!!!

Purplebflogirl said:

No but no one believed her when she posted on FB, so why would she try it again? Stop blaming everyone in this case! Kirk, Maron and this other people are the Main culprits in this case.

Having read the transcripts, what bugs me is how Prince misdirected his paranoia in completely the wrong directions. Worried about electromagnetic waves or the battery in cell phones or whatever. Blaming the narcan for causing him to pass out. He probably started gaining a bit of awareness of his situation when he started convulsing after the first shot, thus attributed the distress to the narcan which was saving his life.

But he never thought to Google the safety of counterfiet vicodin or where it might be produced or who might be producing it? More likely, he did know to an extent the risk he was taking, but by that point, the addiction (and I do think addiction is the right term and there's no shame to that. no one is invulnerable) was doing most of the rationalizing for him.

Given Prince's personalinity traits - stubborness, deeply private, a bit paranoid - combine that with addiction, I don't know if there's anything anyone could have done to save him. I'll always wish that someone had the ovaries to say "Prince you look like a mess and you OD'd last week. I'm staying with you tonight just to make sure you are safe." But little good that might have done anyway.