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Reply #240 posted 04/22/18 7:36pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMB
ER2

disch said:

It's in Omarr's statement (paragraph marked with 167 -- the pdf I'm looking at doesn't have page numbers), where Omarr was describing Prince and Larry's recent "falling out": "Omarr said his brother believed in hard work and didn't like "freeloaders.""


-


How Omarr would know about this, I have no idea. Omarr also says he hadn't been in contact with Prince since 2011. And Larry spent an hour with Prince at PP on April 18.



benni said:




Strawberrylova123 said:


jtfolden said: Weird because prince was at the kingdom hall in march 20th 2016


And it was reported that Larry and Prince were "on the outs" because Larry wouldn't do anything, and Prince didn't like "freeloaders". Can't remember which page of the documents that I read that in, but I read it.



[Edited 4/22/18 19:33pm]





And that is pretty funny because just like everybody else, Omar lived or probably still lives in a house prince bought
[Edited 4/22/18 19:37pm]
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Reply #241 posted 04/22/18 7:37pm

jtfolden

avatar

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

jtfolden said:

WAIT... if you're trying to connect the soup made by the chef to statements made by Prince to Dr. Schulenberg then you've got some wires crossed on the timelines. The bisque soup was not delivered until AFTER Prince had come back from seeing the Doc.

Yes, Prince told the Doc he had vomited earlier in the week and blamed it on some soup but that's not the same soup.


Also, I looked at some later photos from 4/21 and the meal is missing from the table we see it at in the video. So perhaps Kirk or Meron had set the meal out for Prince to eat the evening of 4/20 and whoever cleaned up later in 4/21 sat the food back in the fridge.

And why would whoever be allowed in paisley on the 21st, and then be allowed to clean anything, sounds like some of the whoevers spent the next few days cleaning up...so to speak


Yes, there was some benign cleaning like putting the meals away (on the 21st) and some not so innocent cleaning (on the 23rd) deleting virtually all of Prince's emails and who knows what else.

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Reply #242 posted 04/22/18 7:46pm

jtfolden

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206Michelle said:

jtfolden said:

WAIT... if you're trying to connect the soup made by the chef to statements made by Prince to Dr. Schulenberg then you've got some wires crossed on the timelines. The bisque soup was not delivered until AFTER Prince had come back from seeing the Doc.

Yes, Prince told the Doc he had vomited earlier in the week and blamed it on some soup but that's not the same soup.


Also, I looked at some later photos from 4/21 and the meal is missing from the table we see it at in the video. So perhaps Kirk or Meron had set the meal out for Prince to eat the evening of 4/20 and whoever cleaned up later in 4/21 sat the food back in the fridge.

Prince was in denial about what made him vomit, clearly. confused

His denial and not seeking help...it's what caused his life to end as a Greek tragedy, Chanhassen-style.


Right... it wasn't the pills, it was the Narcan. It wasn't the pills, it was the soup... Sadly, that fits into a greater pattern of Prince's that something was always somebody else's fault. confused

There's no doubt Prince had a major problem and it needed to be dealt with... but to be practical, to look at it from Prince's POV: He probably rationalized it away with the idea that he'd been taking these pills for years and rarely had *what he would consider* a problem...or maybe he thought the tradeoffs were worth the ability to perform without pain - not knowing that NONE of the pills he was currently relying on were what they claimed to be and that SOME of those pills had something in them to kill him.

If he'd only allowed them to do blood tests in Moline, they would have dicovered there was Fentanyl in them.

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Reply #243 posted 04/22/18 7:49pm

jtfolden

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disch said:

How Omarr would know about this, I have no idea.



Prince stopped talking to people he knew but all the people around him didn't stop talking to each other it seems.

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Reply #244 posted 04/22/18 7:51pm

kmama07

jtfolden said:



206Michelle said:




jtfolden said:




WAIT... if you're trying to connect the soup made by the chef to statements made by Prince to Dr. Schulenberg then you've got some wires crossed on the timelines. The bisque soup was not delivered until AFTER Prince had come back from seeing the Doc.

Yes, Prince told the Doc he had vomited earlier in the week and blamed it on some soup but that's not the same soup.


Also, I looked at some later photos from 4/21 and the meal is missing from the table we see it at in the video. So perhaps Kirk or Meron had set the meal out for Prince to eat the evening of 4/20 and whoever cleaned up later in 4/21 sat the food back in the fridge.



Prince was in denial about what made him vomit, clearly. confused


His denial and not seeking help...it's what caused his life to end as a Greek tragedy, Chanhassen-style.




Right... it wasn't the pills, it was the Narcan. It wasn't the pills, it was the soup... Sadly, that fits into a greater pattern of Prince's that something was always somebody else's fault. confused

There's no doubt Prince had a major problem and it needed to be dealt with... but to be practical, to look at it from Prince's POV: He probably rationalized it away with the idea that he'd been taking these pills for years and rarely had *what he would consider* a problem...or maybe he thought the tradeoffs were worth the ability to perform without pain - not knowing that NONE of the pills he was currently relying on were what they claimed to be and that SOME of those pills had something in them to kill him.

If he'd only allowed them to do blood tests in Moline, they would have dicovered there was Fentanyl in them.


^^^
All of this
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Reply #245 posted 04/22/18 7:56pm

Menes

206Michelle said:

jtfolden said:

WAIT... if you're trying to connect the soup made by the chef to statements made by Prince to Dr. Schulenberg then you've got some wires crossed on the timelines. The bisque soup was not delivered until AFTER Prince had come back from seeing the Doc.

Yes, Prince told the Doc he had vomited earlier in the week and blamed it on some soup but that's not the same soup.


Also, I looked at some later photos from 4/21 and the meal is missing from the table we see it at in the video. So perhaps Kirk or Meron had set the meal out for Prince to eat the evening of 4/20 and whoever cleaned up later in 4/21 sat the food back in the fridge.

Prince was in denial about what made him vomit, clearly. confused

His denial and not seeking help...it's what caused his life to end as a Greek tragedy, Chanhassen-style.

Setting aside what the ME stated, do you believe this "greek tragedy" is the result of an accident, or is it a personal failing that lead to something intentional?

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Reply #246 posted 04/22/18 8:02pm

jtfolden

avatar

Menes said:

206Michelle said:

Prince was in denial about what made him vomit, clearly. confused

His denial and not seeking help...it's what caused his life to end as a Greek tragedy, Chanhassen-style.

Setting aside what the ME stated, do you believe this "greek tragedy" is the result of an accident, or is it a personal failing that lead to something intentional?

What do you mean by intentional??

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Reply #247 posted 04/22/18 8:02pm

PennyPurple

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jtfolden said:

PennyPurple said:

Correction on my part page 114 #4

Which PDF are you trying to point to?

Look at my post #159 on this thread, and then scroll down to see article #4.

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Reply #248 posted 04/22/18 8:11pm

AmericaSlays

kmama07 said:

jtfolden said:


Right... it wasn't the pills, it was the Narcan. It wasn't the pills, it was the soup... Sadly, that fits into a greater pattern of Prince's that something was always somebody else's fault. confused

There's no doubt Prince had a major problem and it needed to be dealt with... but to be practical, to look at it from Prince's POV: He probably rationalized it away with the idea that he'd been taking these pills for years and rarely had *what he would consider* a problem...or maybe he thought the tradeoffs were worth the ability to perform without pain - not knowing that NONE of the pills he was currently relying on were what they claimed to be and that SOME of those pills had something in them to kill him.

If he'd only allowed them to do blood tests in Moline, they would have dicovered there was Fentanyl in them.

^^^ All of this

Not disputing P's personal perspective.

Hospitals usually only test for opiates, not Fentanyl or Oxy or Hydrocodone, all of which are opiates. P had what he thought were Vicodin (Hydrocodone). The opiates test would've been positive. P would've assumed it was the Vicodin. So would the ER, if they even cared which kind of opiate it was. P still wouldn't have known it was fentanyl unless he was already of it.

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Reply #249 posted 04/22/18 8:11pm

precioux

Thanks for the link...and according to the link, the very first sentence states “as soon as the heart stops beating, the body IMMEDIATELY starts turning cold..known as the ‘death chill’ “.

There were 2 people who stated P was still “warm to the touch”- AK and 45 minutes later, the 1st responder. (Even if he was the same ambient temperature of 75 degrees...as opposed to 98 degress basal thermal temp- that is COLD, and not “warm to the touch “)

AND if rigor starts in as little as 2 hours, there is a possibility that P was still alive while the 3 amigos were casually chowing down on breakfast.



luv4u said:



LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:


jtfolden said:




As far as the body cooling... the fire Chief said Prince was still warm but was unsure if that was because he had just recently stopped breathing OR because of the ambient temperature in the elevator. I got the impression from the statements that it was relatively hot in the elevator.



A body with a temperature of 75 degrees does not feel warm, I think they said it was 75 degrees in paisley...


https://health.howstuffwo...dying4.htm

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Reply #250 posted 04/22/18 8:16pm

206Michelle

jtfolden said:

206Michelle said:

Prince was in denial about what made him vomit, clearly. confused

His denial and not seeking help...it's what caused his life to end as a Greek tragedy, Chanhassen-style.


Right... it wasn't the pills, it was the Narcan. It wasn't the pills, it was the soup... Sadly, that fits into a greater pattern of Prince's that something was always somebody else's fault. confused

There's no doubt Prince had a major problem and it needed to be dealt with... but to be practical, to look at it from Prince's POV: He probably rationalized it away with the idea that he'd been taking these pills for years and rarely had *what he would consider* a problem...or maybe he thought the tradeoffs were worth the ability to perform without pain - not knowing that NONE of the pills he was currently relying on were what they claimed to be and that SOME of those pills had something in them to kill him.

If he'd only allowed them to do blood tests in Moline, they would have dicovered there was Fentanyl in them.

I totally agree, JT!

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
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Reply #251 posted 04/22/18 8:18pm

precioux

PennyPurple said:



precioux said:


Strawberrylova123 said:
JH was new in the camp/girlfriend so i don't really blame her on anything, to me she was the most sincere out of all of them

The only common denominator I see with JH is the fact that she started hanging with P in 2014...and that’s when he started his physical decline

Precioux, who was the other guy that Judith was with and died, there was MJ and P but I can't ever remember the 3rd.




I’ll have to look it up again-she was an older jazz singer
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Reply #252 posted 04/22/18 8:20pm

Lovejunky

luv4u said:



LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:


jtfolden said:




As far as the body cooling... the fire Chief said Prince was still warm but was unsure if that was because he had just recently stopped breathing OR because of the ambient temperature in the elevator. I got the impression from the statements that it was relatively hot in the elevator.



A body with a temperature of 75 degrees does not feel warm, I think they said it was 75 degrees in paisley...

THis is correct

There is a part in someones statement thats says the heating was turned up and that Princes face was moist.

They goes on to describe how kirk took them to the heating thermostat and showed him how to open it and turn it down.

Ill try and find it

[Edited 4/22/18 20:36pm]

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Reply #253 posted 04/22/18 8:23pm

Bodhitheblackd
og

Asenath said:

I'm interested in only reading the interviews that the police conducted. Is there just a link with the interviews of the weltons, etc all.? If so would someone be kind enough to post or point me in the right direction. I don't want to download the pictures by accident.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4442859-investigativereports2.html

I believe The New York Times archived everything in the cloud for easy access...Please can someone help make this a clickable link? Thanks

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Reply #254 posted 04/22/18 8:24pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMB
ER2

Lovejunky said:



luv4u said:






LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:



jtfolden said:





As far as the body cooling... the fire Chief said Prince was still warm but was unsure if that was because he had just recently stopped breathing OR because of the ambient temperature in the elevator. I got the impression from the statements that it was relatively hot in the elevator.





A body with a temperature of 75 degrees does not feel warm, I think they said it was 75 degrees in paisley...


THis is correct


There is a part in Schulendergs statement thats says the heating was turned up and that Princes face was moist.


Schulenberg goes on to describe how kirk took him to the heating thermostat and showed him how to open it and turn it down.








So prince just died and Kirk is showing dr s how to use the thermostat????...it just keeps getting weirder
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Reply #255 posted 04/22/18 8:25pm

jtfolden

avatar

PennyPurple said:

jtfolden said:

Which PDF are you trying to point to?

Look at my post #159 on this thread, and then scroll down to see article #4.


Ok, I see that now thanks. Frederick, a paramedic they interview (which seems to have come with the ambulance and brought the cot) gives a slightly different viewpoint.

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Reply #256 posted 04/22/18 8:27pm

206Michelle

Menes said:

206Michelle said:

Prince was in denial about what made him vomit, clearly. confused

His denial and not seeking help...it's what caused his life to end as a Greek tragedy, Chanhassen-style.

Setting aside what the ME stated, do you believe this "greek tragedy" is the result of an accident, or is it a personal failing that lead to something intentional?

Menes, my opinion is that the accidental fentanyl overdose was a product of decisions that he made to (a) live in denial of what was happening to him and to (b) not seek help until it was too late. It's hard to prove 100% whether the death was accidental or suicide, but I believe that it was accidental. Although he was struggling with his pain, was lonely, and possible depressed, I feel that he did have things and people for which to live. He had his memoir, more tour dates, the Welton's new baby, mentoring his proteges and mentees, and so forth. Also, suicide went against his faith. I think his death was an accident.

[Edited 4/22/18 20:28pm]

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
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Reply #257 posted 04/22/18 8:29pm

poppys

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Asenath said:

I'm interested in only reading the interviews that the police conducted. Is there just a link with the interviews of the weltons, etc all.? If so would someone be kind enough to post or point me in the right direction. I don't want to download the pictures by accident.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4442859-investigativereports2.html

I believe The New York Times archived everything in the cloud for easy access...Please can someone help make this a clickable link? Thanks


https://www.nytimes.com/i...iles1.html

https://assets.documentcl...Files1.pdf

"if you can't clap on the one, then don't clap at all"
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Reply #258 posted 04/22/18 8:30pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

Lovejunky said:


THis is correct

There is a part in Schulendergs statement thats says the heating was turned up and that Princes face was moist.

Schulenberg goes on to describe how kirk took him to the heating thermostat and showed him how to open it and turn it down.

What?? What page is that on?

It was Kirk showing the Detectives the thermostat. and how to turn it down.

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Reply #259 posted 04/22/18 8:37pm

Lovejunky

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Lovejunky said:

What?? What page is that on?

It was Kirk showing the Detectives the thermostat. and how to turn it down.

You are correct....

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Reply #260 posted 04/22/18 8:40pm

Lovejunky

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Lovejunky said:

So prince just died and Kirk is showing dr s how to use the thermostat????...it just keeps getting weirder

It was Kirik showing the detectives how to turn the Thermostat down NOT Schulenberg

I got it mixed up

But YES..the heating was turned UP

Kirk turned it down

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Reply #261 posted 04/22/18 8:43pm

jtfolden

avatar

precioux said:

Thanks for the link...and according to the link, the very first sentence states “as soon as the heart stops beating, the body IMMEDIATELY starts turning cold..known as the ‘death chill’ “. There were 2 people who stated P was still “warm to the touch”- AK and 45 minutes later, the 1st responder. (Even if he was the same ambient temperature of 75 degrees...as opposed to 98 degress basal thermal temp- that is COLD, and not “warm to the touch “) AND if rigor starts in as little as 2 hours, there is a possibility that P was still alive while the 3 amigos were casually chowing down on breakfast.


If we look at the numbers and do the math, it states that body temp drops 1.5F per hour. So even if Prince had been dead the full 6 hours indicated by that time, his body temp could still be as high as 89.6. ...and this ignores that the ambient temp of PP in general may have been lower than the temp inside the elevator which was alluded to I believe.


It says rigor begins within 2 to 6 hours after death. AK, KJ, and MB were eating between 8-9 so no it doesn't seem possible he would have been alive at that point BUT Should they have gone over as soon as AK got off the plane like he wanted? YES...

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Reply #262 posted 04/22/18 8:44pm

disch

Clickable link to documents:

https://www.documentcloud...orts2.html

Note that I believe this is just the investigative report (the police summary of everything), not the actual interview audio/transcripts


Bodhitheblackdog said:

Asenath said:

I'm interested in only reading the interviews that the police conducted. Is there just a link with the interviews of the weltons, etc all.? If so would someone be kind enough to post or point me in the right direction. I don't want to download the pictures by accident.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4442859-investigativereports2.html

I believe The New York Times archived everything in the cloud for easy access...Please can someone help make this a clickable link? Thanks

[Edited 4/22/18 20:46pm]

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Reply #263 posted 04/22/18 8:50pm

jtfolden

avatar

206Michelle said:

Menes said:

Setting aside what the ME stated, do you believe this "greek tragedy" is the result of an accident, or is it a personal failing that lead to something intentional?

Menes, my opinion is that the accidental fentanyl overdose was a product of decisions that he made to (a) live in denial of what was happening to him and to (b) not seek help until it was too late. It's hard to prove 100% whether the death was accidental or suicide, but I believe that it was accidental. Although he was struggling with his pain, was lonely, and possible depressed, I feel that he did have things and people for which to live. He had his memoir, more tour dates, the Welton's new baby, mentoring his proteges and mentees, and so forth. Also, suicide went against his faith. I think his death was an accident.

[Edited 4/22/18 20:28pm]



Also, it's important to note that neither at Moline or while talking to Dr. S. did Prince really complain about physical pain in any noticable way. There's a tingling/numbness mentioned and he tells Judith his hands hurt BUT the old narrative some were pushing that his pains were becoming too great to bear doesn't seem to hold, imo. He was still a functioning addict and might even still be one today if not for the unknown introduction of Fentanyl into the situation.

Also, his depression and wanting to sleep were a very recent and suddent development if we go by what Judith says... and mostly comes from the time they were together for the last concerts... that could have been brought on by those drugs too.

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Reply #264 posted 04/22/18 8:51pm

dreamer5

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Lovejunky said:

What?? What page is that on?

It was Kirk showing the Detectives the thermostat. and how to turn it down.

It said that the thermostat was turned up to 75 and space heaters were on in various rooms.

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Reply #265 posted 04/22/18 8:53pm

jtfolden

avatar

disch said:

Clickable link to documents:

https://www.documentcloud...orts2.html

Note that I believe this is just the investigative report (the police summary of everything), not the actual interview audio/transcripts

Bodhitheblackdog said:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4442859-investigativereports2.html

I believe The New York Times archived everything in the cloud for easy access...Please can someone help make this a clickable link? Thanks

[Edited 4/22/18 20:46pm]


Yes, this is just part 2 of the Investigative reports, it looks like. There is another 113 pages in part 1 plus other files for interview transcripts, emails form Prince's computer, etc...


...and I must say, it was suprising to see that Judith Hill was still sending emails to Prince's address in May '16 and it was heartbreaking the one included in the report. sad

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Reply #266 posted 04/22/18 8:54pm

precioux

jtfolden said:



precioux said:


Thanks for the link...and according to the link, the very first sentence states “as soon as the heart stops beating, the body IMMEDIATELY starts turning cold..known as the ‘death chill’ “. There were 2 people who stated P was still “warm to the touch”- AK and 45 minutes later, the 1st responder. (Even if he was the same ambient temperature of 75 degrees...as opposed to 98 degress basal thermal temp- that is COLD, and not “warm to the touch “) AND if rigor starts in as little as 2 hours, there is a possibility that P was still alive while the 3 amigos were casually chowing down on breakfast.





If we look at the numbers and do the math, it states that body temp drops 1.5F per hour. So even if Prince had been dead the full 6 hours indicated by that time, his body temp could still be as high as 89.6. ...and this ignores that the ambient temp of PP in general may have been lower than the temp inside the elevator which was alluded to I believe.



It says rigor begins within 2 to 6 hours after death. AK, KJ, and MB were eating between 8-9 so no it doesn't seem possible he would have been alive at that point BUT Should they have gone over as soon as AK got off the plane like he wanted? YES...




That’s EXACTLY my point! I’ve done the math and IF they would’ve gone straight there as AK suggested, there MAY have been a chance sad
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Reply #267 posted 04/22/18 8:55pm

Asenath

poppys said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4442859-investigativereports2.html

I believe The New York Times archived everything in the cloud for easy access...Please can someone help make this a clickable link? Thanks


https://www.nytimes.com/i...iles1.html

https://assets.documentcl...Files1.pdf

thank you

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Reply #268 posted 04/22/18 9:05pm

jtfolden

avatar

precioux said:

jtfolden said:


If we look at the numbers and do the math, it states that body temp drops 1.5F per hour. So even if Prince had been dead the full 6 hours indicated by that time, his body temp could still be as high as 89.6. ...and this ignores that the ambient temp of PP in general may have been lower than the temp inside the elevator which was alluded to I believe.


It says rigor begins within 2 to 6 hours after death. AK, KJ, and MB were eating between 8-9 so no it doesn't seem possible he would have been alive at that point BUT Should they have gone over as soon as AK got off the plane like he wanted? YES...

That’s EXACTLY my point! I’ve done the math and IF they would’ve gone straight there as AK suggested, there MAY have been a chance sad

Yeah, I still think he was already gone by 6AM but I'm liking the scenario less and less the more I think about it...

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Reply #269 posted 04/22/18 9:05pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMB
ER2

jtfolden said:



precioux said:


Thanks for the link...and according to the link, the very first sentence states “as soon as the heart stops beating, the body IMMEDIATELY starts turning cold..known as the ‘death chill’ “. There were 2 people who stated P was still “warm to the touch”- AK and 45 minutes later, the 1st responder. (Even if he was the same ambient temperature of 75 degrees...as opposed to 98 degress basal thermal temp- that is COLD, and not “warm to the touch “) AND if rigor starts in as little as 2 hours, there is a possibility that P was still alive while the 3 amigos were casually chowing down on breakfast.





If we look at the numbers and do the math, it states that body temp drops 1.5F per hour. So even if Prince had been dead the full 6 hours indicated by that time, his body temp could still be as high as 89.6. ...and this ignores that the ambient temp of PP in general may have been lower than the temp inside the elevator which was alluded to I believe.



It says rigor begins within 2 to 6 hours after death. AK, KJ, and MB were eating between 8-9 so no it doesn't seem possible he would have been alive at that point BUT Should they have gone over as soon as AK got off the plane like he wanted? YES...




But we do not know what his body temperature was when they found him, right. One of the responders said they thought he still felt warm which is why they tried to resuscitate, right?...so I am guessing the ME is the one that gave the time of death window?...time of death is very hard to determine with totally accuracy that is why there is always such a big window of possibility to a death that was not witnessed, really time of death is an educated guess
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