luv4u said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

jtfolden said: A body with a temperature of 75 degrees does not feel warm, I think they said it was 75 degrees in paisley...

https://health.howstuffwo...dying4.htm

this will tell ya everything

Lovejunky said:

another inconsistancy...

THe Food was on the table in the videos but according to Ray Roberts

When he returned to the musician’s studio home for his memorial service a few days later, Roberts found it in the refrigerator – just as he’d left it.

Yes, I looked at that video too. I honestly can't tell if they've been eaten at all or not. The one with ?salad? also has writing on it but I can't make it out. The Chef did say he delivered food that evening as opposed to cooking anything there. I think the Chef said one of the items he made was a bisque?

.

Good catch!!

precioux said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

JH was new in the camp/girlfriend so i don't really blame her on anything, to me she was the most sincere out of all of them

The only common denominator I see with JH is the fact that she started hanging with P in 2014...and that’s when he started his physical decline

I think that's probably coincidence.

803 said:

I think there is some confusion by people interviewed over who the people were that responded in Moline...both Judith and the attendant say that ems boarded the plane. The pilot says that it was a police officer. It seems that whoever boarded the plane determined that there was not room for the cot and that prince would have to be carried off. Ems says that when they got there and attempted to board the plane they were stopped and Kirk carried prince off. I wonder if he was put on the cot at the bottom of the steps, examined, treated and then transferred to the ambulance. That would fit with Judith’s description. I remember looking at the video from the airport and there were a number of response vehicles there. I’m guessing that there were police vehicles, the ambulance and the fire department’s ems vehicle. That is the way it would be handled in my community.

The paramedic specifically states that as he's grabbing his gear and cot from the truck, he sees Kirk is already carrying Prince down the stairs with a young girl following, so... the EMT's weren't "stopped" first, it doesn't sound like, except in the sense that Kirk is telling the medic he doesn't need to meet him on the steps - he's coming all the way down... They put Prince on the cot at the bottom of the stairs.

disch said:

someone who at that point has been awake for probably well over 24 hours.

-

While I'm sure this was awrenching thing for Andrew to be part of, he didn't have the kind of personal investment in the situation that the people in P's inner circle.

-

I think Andrew comes across fine here. He seemed genuinely concerned with trying to help Prince. He wanted to get to PP asap when he got off that all-night flight. I think Kirk and Meron delayed slightly to try to accomdate Prince's schedule. I think that they likely felt that after P's dr's appoinment the previous evening, P had things basically under control for the time. And frankly he probably would have been basically fine when they arrived at PP had he taken say a regular percocet to 2 that night and not the fentanyl-laced stuff.

cloveringold85 said:

.

Didn't he have time to eat on the plane? Does not sound like they were on a "life saving mission", as Dr. Kornfeld put it.

.

Who the fuck goes home and goes to sleep after something like that just happens.....uh, a person just died!!!!

.

Prince was not doing fine!! Dr. S. and Dr. K both said he wasn't doing fine.

.

I'm too tired to go over this again.

poppys said:

precioux said:

PennyPurple said:

If rigor had set in, then the arms couldn't have moved that easily or at all.

AK stated “Prince was warm to the touch..” he didn’t say he was “stiff”. Question: how long does it take for a body to get “cold”..how kind before rigor sets in?? Fact: AK took a red eye flight in because this was a “dire medical emergency “, yet gets off the plane at 5:55 am...goes to breakfast for 2 HOURS AND 45 minutes...THEN checks into the Country Inn and then they (AK, Meron & KJ) head to PP. seriously?! If P was still warm-he may have been able to be saved within the 2.75 hours they were phueking off eating breakfast! Never mind the fact that while P was “still warm”, KJ was busy cleaning him up INSTEAD OF calling 911! Icing on the cake: all AK was worried about was if he was being charged and if not was he free to fly home. He was free to fly home and told the detective he was GOING TO GET SOME SLEEP NOW!!!

I hear ya.

disch said:

Well maybe that food wasn't what Ray Roberts brought. Or maybe someone had put it in the fridge by the time of the memorial.

-

What do you think the significance of the "inconsistency" is? Just getting some detail off isn't necessarily sinister.

Lovejunky said:

another inconsistancy...

THe Food was on the table in the videos but according to Ray Roberts

Yes, I looked at that video too. I honestly can't tell if they've been eaten at all or not. The one with ?salad? also has writing on it but I can't make it out. The Chef did say he delivered food that evening as opposed to cooking anything there. I think the Chef said one of the items he made was a bisque?

.

In the reports, Prince had told Dr. Schulenberg that he was not feeling well after he ate some soup.

precioux said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

JH was new in the camp/girlfriend so i don't really blame her on anything, to me she was the most sincere out of all of them

The only common denominator I see with JH is the fact that she started hanging with P in 2014...and that’s when he started his physical decline

Precioux, who was the other guy that Judith was with and died, there was MJ and P but I can't ever remember the 3rd.

cloveringold85 said:

disch said:

Well maybe that food wasn't what Ray Roberts brought. Or maybe someone had put it in the fridge by the time of the memorial.

-

What do you think the significance of the "inconsistency" is? Just getting some detail off isn't necessarily sinister.

.

In the reports, Prince had told Dr. Schulenberg that he was not feeling well after he ate some soup.

WAIT... if you're trying to connect the soup made by the chef to statements made by Prince to Dr. Schulenberg then you've got some wires crossed on the timelines. The bisque soup was not delivered until AFTER Prince had come back from seeing the Doc.

Yes, Prince told the Doc he had vomited earlier in the week and blamed it on some soup but that's not the same soup.


Also, I looked at some later photos from 4/21 and the meal is missing from the table we see it at in the video. So perhaps Kirk or Meron had set the meal out for Prince to eat the evening of 4/20 and whoever cleaned up later in 4/21 sat the food back in the fridge.

I'm just gonna copy & paste, because I'm too tired to keep explaning myself over and over!!

.

From Part 6.......

.

disch said:

I get it, I just don't see the connection to Prince's death, because whatever their intent or thoughts or whatever were, was complely irrelevant to Prince's death. My interest is really in Prince's life and death and the people and actiond that contributed to his death; whatever Andrew and his dad's process was does not contribute in any way to my understanding of Prince's death.

-

cloveringold85 said:

.

You seem to be missing the point I am trying to make here. I'm talking about their actions (intent) leading up to finding Prince in the elevator, not the time when Andrew arrived. I know they aren't responsible for Prince's death, because they weren't there.

.

I have read Andrew's interview with the detectives and a lot of what he said does not make sense. Even the detective indicated the same, and he questioned why Andrew was carrying those drugs and if he could not administer them, then what would be the point in having them? I shouldn't have to explain this.

[Edited 4/21/18 13:31pm]

..

Cloveringold85 said:

.

And, I agree with that. I'm just a person who values someone's character. Maybe some of you don't look at it that way, but I do. It comes down to morals and ethics, especially when providing care to a very sick person or someone who is having a "grave medical emergency", as Dr. Kornfeld put it. For Dr. Kornfeld to even consider sending his med student Son on a mission like that, just tells me this is not a man who thinks clearly. Personally, I think it was all about the money; always the money!! These doctors saw dollar signs in their eyes -- and Prince is gone.

jtfolden said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

In the reports, Prince had told Dr. Schulenberg that he was not feeling well after he ate some soup.

WAIT... if you're trying to connect the soup made by the chef to statements made by Prince to Dr. Schulenberg then you've got some wires crossed on the timelines. The bisque soup was not delivered until AFTER Prince had come back from seeing the Doc.

Yes, Prince told the Doc he had vomited earlier in the week and blamed it on some soup but that's not the same soup.


Also, I looked at some later photos from 4/21 and the meal is missing from the table we see it at in the video. So perhaps Kirk or Meron had set the meal out for Prince to eat the evening of 4/20 and whoever cleaned up later in 4/21 sat the food back in the fridge.

.....

Yes, that was a different time.

80tomato said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

The sad part is that Prince was all alone and had no one to watch over him. Also, the fact that it was very late or in the wee hours of the morning, and no one was around. If only help had come sooner, they probably could have revived him. I know it's really no consolation now.

Prince had all the meds but it seems the one thing he did not have was human touch.When the right person gives u a hug all the anxieties and worries can leave u

This is what I was saying in #464 from part 6 of this thread. I've included some of what I wrote in that post here. Link: http://prince.org/msg/7/4...&pg=16

.

I think he was having an existential crisis. This activity, making music, that was everything to him, had become difficult for him physically because of the pain in his joints and hands. He had friends and colleagues, but there was a revolving door of these friends and colleagues. His family members appear to have been distant. I don’t know if he was still attending Kingdom Hall every Sunday with Larry, but my impression is that he had drifted away from his JW faith somewhat or was less devout than he had been 10 to 15 years earlier. He talked with people via phone, e.g. Tamron Hall, but talking on the phone is not the same as having someone physically present.
.
Imagine how he must have felt. He had his home, PP, that is a shrine to his entire career. It’s beautifully decorated. It was home. But then, he had no family with whom to share his life or his accomplishments. He was a very nurturing person. He mentored so many people, particularly women. But these people all had their own lives as well.
.
Music was his life and he didn’t know how to retire from it. What was he going to do in its place? He had no wife or children or grandchildren. As I understand, he was looking forward to being Uncle Prince to Josh and Hannah Welton’s new baby upon the baby’s birth. He was writing his memoir. So he still had things and people for which/whom to live, but I suspect that these people and things could not take the place of making music.
.
It’s unknown how he felt, later in life, about his dream of fatherhood that ended up being short-lived. But, to my knowledge, fatherhood is the only situation that gave him a level of purpose on par with the purpose that music gave him. Fatherhood is the only reason he ever stopped making music during his adult life. He talked about how wonderful fatherhood or expectant fatherhood was in numerous interviews, e.g., Oprah in 1996. Was he content with not having any living children or did he still yearn for it? I don’t know. But from what Judith says in the interview, he was feeling depressed and he expressed that he was having difficulty performing music and also that he felt he didn’t have much else to do with his life. I think he didn’t know what to do with himself if he couldn’t make music.

cloveringold85 said:

disch said:

Well maybe that food wasn't what Ray Roberts brought. Or maybe someone had put it in the fridge by the time of the memorial.

-

What do you think the significance of the "inconsistency" is? Just getting some detail off isn't necessarily sinister.

.

In the reports, Prince had told Dr. Schulenberg that he was not feeling well after he ate some soup.

Umm hmm. And that's why something is "off" about the food on the table (and possible inconsistency) with Ray Ray. Autopsy showed P had fentanyl in his blood, liver, and stomach. According to ME that could only be possible if P had orally injested the stuff. Now according to this article drugs can be administered orally through eating, drinking, or swalling pills. They are absorbed through the stomach and small intestine. The drug then passes through the liver before entering the bloodstream. Substances administered this way take effect more slowly than drugs taken via other routes, such as smoking or injection. Is it possible the fentanyl was administred orally to Prince through eating (not necessarily "chewing" the pills but ingesting through a meal unbeknowest to him) and that's why so much was found in his system??? Hmm ... JMO

[Edited 4/22/18 19:04pm]

Doing well enough after his appointment the evening before to be OK for 12 hours or so until they had the intervention the next day. Dr S DID say that he seemed OK by the time he left his office on April 20. Not OK like "cured of his addiction," but under having things under control for the time being. That's because Dr S treated him during the appointment.

-

I know you feel that Andrew is a major villain in this story, but based on the documents, he just isn't. He did nothing to enable Prince's addiction, and there's nothing about what he did or said that implies that he wasn't truly there to help.

cloveringold85 said:

disch said:

someone who at that point has been awake for probably well over 24 hours.

-

While I'm sure this was awrenching thing for Andrew to be part of, he didn't have the kind of personal investment in the situation that the people in P's inner circle.

-

I think Andrew comes across fine here. He seemed genuinely concerned with trying to help Prince. He wanted to get to PP asap when he got off that all-night flight. I think Kirk and Meron delayed slightly to try to accomdate Prince's schedule. I think that they likely felt that after P's dr's appoinment the previous evening, P had things basically under control for the time. And frankly he probably would have been basically fine when they arrived at PP had he taken say a regular percocet to 2 that night and not the fentanyl-laced stuff.

.

Prince was not doing fine!! Dr. S. and Dr. K both said he wasn't doing fine.

.

I'm too tired to go over this again.

jtfolden said:

803 said:

I think there is some confusion by people interviewed over who the people were that responded in Moline...both Judith and the attendant say that ems boarded the plane. The pilot says that it was a police officer. It seems that whoever boarded the plane determined that there was not room for the cot and that prince would have to be carried off. Ems says that when they got there and attempted to board the plane they were stopped and Kirk carried prince off. I wonder if he was put on the cot at the bottom of the steps, examined, treated and then transferred to the ambulance. That would fit with Judith’s description. I remember looking at the video from the airport and there were a number of response vehicles there. I’m guessing that there were police vehicles, the ambulance and the fire department’s ems vehicle. That is the way it would be handled in my community.

The paramedic specifically states that as he's grabbing his gear and cot from the truck, he sees Kirk is already carrying Prince down the stairs with a young girl following, so... the EMT's weren't "stopped" first, it doesn't sound like, except in the sense that Kirk is telling the medic he doesn't need to meet him on the steps - he's coming all the way down... They put Prince on the cot at the bottom of the stairs.

Look at page 155 #4

jtfolden said:

benni said:

What I want to know is HOW Manuela knows Kirk was deleting files off Prince's computer and Phaedra was shredding documents? She was not at Paisley Park. She was not in Prince's inner circle any more. There is no conceivable way that she could have had that information. And according to the press conference that Mayte gave shortly after, Mani was the one that called and told her about Prince, that Mani had heard it from the news too.

Remember the little private memorial they had at PP just after he passed away?

The investigators confirmed that someone accessed Prince's computer and gmail account on 04/23/2016 and deleted all of his emails prior to 04/19/2016. So at least as far as deleting things off the computer, she was telling the truth.

[Edited 4/22/18 17:39pm]

Right, but Mani, nor Mayte were at that one. That's why they held one in L.A. (jointly) on May 11th. So the only way she could have known anything would have been for someone to tell her. So she's getting things second hand and then passing them on to Omarr. Anything second hand, could have been embellished.

Strawberrylova123 said:

jtfolden said:

It's also in the files that Mani tried going to Larry because she was concerned about his usage of pain killers and that Larry told her she wasn't a doctor and to not try to diagnose.... What a friend he was...

Weird because prince was at the kingdom hall in march 20th 2016

And it was reported that Larry and Prince were "on the outs" because Larry wouldn't do anything, and Prince didn't like "freeloaders". Can't remember which page of the documents that I read that in, but I read it.

disch said:

someone who at that point has been awake for probably well over 24 hours.

-

While I'm sure this was awrenching thing for Andrew to be part of, he didn't have the kind of personal investment in the situation that the people in P's inner circle.

-

I think Andrew comes across fine here. He seemed genuinely concerned with trying to help Prince. He wanted to get to PP asap when he got off that all-night flight. I think Kirk and Meron delayed slightly to try to accomdate Prince's schedule. I think that they likely felt that after P's dr's appoinment the previous evening, P had things basically under control for the time. And frankly he probably would have been basically fine when they arrived at PP had he taken say a regular percocet to 2 that night and not the fentanyl-laced stuff.

Exactly... This wasn't a case of being unable to leave Prince alone by himself as he might overdose, IMO. If the Fentanyl laced pills were not there (or if Prince understood some of those pills were laced with something that might kill him) he would have survived the night to get treatment.

Correction on my part page 114 #4

bondno9 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

In the reports, Prince had told Dr. Schulenberg that he was not feeling well after he ate some soup.

Umm hmm. And that's why something is "off" about the food on the table (and possible inconsistency) with Ray Ray. Autopsy showed P had fentanyl in his blood, liver, and stomach. According to ME that could only be possible if P had orally injested the stuff. Now according to this article drugs can be administered orally through eating, drinking, or swalling pills. They are absorbed through the stomach and small intestine. The drug then passes through the liver before entering the bloodstream. Substances administered this way take effect more slowly than drugs taken via other routes, such as smoking or injection. Is it possible the fentanyl was administred orally to Prince through eating (not necessarily "chewing" the pills but ingesting through a meal unbeknowest to him) and that's why so much was found in his system??? Hmm ... JMO

[Edited 4/22/18 19:04pm]

NO... that's not supported by anything in the Carver County Data dump. There was no shortage of Fentanyl laced pills inside PP. They were mixed in with other less dangerous replicas of the same pills. It was truly up to fate whether Prince took one of the lidocaine counterfeit pills or one of the Fentanyl/lidocaine counterfeit pills. No one has to go looking at food as a possible source.

In fact, in the blood test results that Dr. S gets after taking blood from Prince on 4/20 there is no Fentanyl in his system. On the fateful night, he grabbed the bottle with the bad pills (which I'd have to go back and look but I think it's the Bayer bottle that was on his nightand though they were elsewhere in PP too).

80tomato said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

The sad part is that Prince was all alone and had no one to watch over him. Also, the fact that it was very late or in the wee hours of the morning, and no one was around. If only help had come sooner, they probably could have revived him. I know it's really no consolation now.

Prince had all the meds but it seems the one thing he did not have was human touch.When the right person gives u a hug all the anxieties and worries can leave u

Also, it's very interesting what Judith said about his relationship with the Weltons. What she said is very consistent with what Hannah Welton posted on instagram shortly after Prince died. But still, the Weltons were a married couple. Prince still didn't have his own significant other, at least not one who was with him in Minneapolis all of the time.

.......

Judith's interview, pp. 48-49, http://www.documentcloud....ocument/p1

Unk: The Welton's. Do you know who they are?

.

JH: They're very .. yeah.

.

Unk: Okay tell me a little bit about them um their connection.

.

JH: Oh they're um well Hannah was his drummer..

.

Unk: Okay.

.

JH: .. and. Joshua is ah did a lot of production in, on the records and was also auxiliary keyboardist in the show so they had a big role, they were very close to Prince. Prince liked them a lot. They .. he thought they were like his kids.

.

Unk: Okay.

.

JH: Yeah.

.

Unk: And .. any .. ever discussion, disparaging discussions between the other staff about them or concerns about them or..

.

JH: No I think it was difficult when Hannah decided to have a baby and that's when 3rdeyegirl kind of fell apart ..

.

Unk: Okay.

.

JH: .. and I know he really wanted 3rdeyegirl to continue but she felt like it was a time for her to .. to move on and .. or not move on, they were still living in the house and he really loved them to pieces so ..

.

Unk: Uh-hum.

.

JH: .. they were still very much involved even though 3rdeyegirl had kind of disbanded ..

.

Unk: Uh-hum.

.

JH: .. um but they were still very much a part of his life.

.

Unk: So did the Welton's live in a house that Prince owned?

.

JH: Uh-hum.

.

Unk: Okay ..

.

JH: They live next to Kirk, yeah they both ..

.

Unk: Oh they, they live next to Kirk, okay.

.

JH: .. their two houses are like this.

.......

Source: https://www.pinterest.com...375726304/

[Edited 4/22/18 19:19pm]

PennyPurple said:

Correction on my part page 114 #4

Which PDF are you trying to point to?

benni said:

jtfolden said:

Remember the little private memorial they had at PP just after he passed away?

The investigators confirmed that someone accessed Prince's computer and gmail account on 04/23/2016 and deleted all of his emails prior to 04/19/2016. So at least as far as deleting things off the computer, she was telling the truth.

[Edited 4/22/18 17:39pm]

Right, but Mani, nor Mayte were at that one. That's why they held one in L.A. (jointly) on May 11th. So the only way she could have known anything would have been for someone to tell her. So she's getting things second hand and then passing them on to Omarr. Anything second hand, could have been embellished.

Mayte was at the private memorial at PP.

.

Prince's Friends and Family at Paisley Park for 'Beautiful' Private Memorial as Singer's Body Is Cremated

MELODY CHIU and MARIA MERCEDES LARA

People (online)

Link: http://people.com/celebri...sley-park/

Excerpts:

Friends and family gathered at Paisley Park Studios in Chanhassen, Minnesota, on Saturday in honor of iconic musician Prince.

.

Sheila E was spotted arriving at the compound on Saturday, dressed in an all white outfit. Other friends and family members, including Mayte Garcia, were spotted arriving as well, some of whom brought purple floral arrangements. A source confirms to PEOPLE that it was a private memorial for the singer.

[Edited 4/22/18 19:29pm]

jtfolden said:

bondno9 said:

Umm hmm. And that's why something is "off" about the food on the table (and possible inconsistency) with Ray Ray. Autopsy showed P had fentanyl in his blood, liver, and stomach. According to ME that could only be possible if P had orally injested the stuff. Now according to this article drugs can be administered orally through eating, drinking, or swalling pills. They are absorbed through the stomach and small intestine. The drug then passes through the liver before entering the bloodstream. Substances administered this way take effect more slowly than drugs taken via other routes, such as smoking or injection. Is it possible the fentanyl was administred orally to Prince through eating (not necessarily "chewing" the pills but ingesting through a meal unbeknowest to him) and that's why so much was found in his system??? Hmm ... JMO

[Edited 4/22/18 19:04pm]

NO... that's not supported by anything in the Carver County Data dump. There was no shortage of Fentanyl laced pills inside PP. They were mixed in with other less dangerous replicas of the same pills. It was truly up to fate whether Prince took one of the lidocaine counterfeit pills or one of the Fentanyl/lidocaine counterfeit pills. No one has to go looking at food as a possible source.

In fact, in the blood test results that Dr. S gets after taking blood from Prince on 4/20 there is no Fentanyl in his system. On the fateful night, he grabbed the bottle with the bad pills (which I'd have to go back and look but I think it's the Bayer bottle that was on his nightand though they were elsewhere in PP too).

In fact, in the blood test results that Dr. S gets after taking blood from Prince on 4/20 there is no Fentanyl in his system.

[Edited 4/22/18 19:31pm]

jtfolden said:

It's in Omarr's statement (paragraph marked with 167 -- the pdf I'm looking at doesn't have page numbers), where Omarr was describing Prince and Larry's recent "falling out": "Omarr said his brother believed in hard work and didn't like "freeloaders.""

-

How Omarr would know about this, I have no idea. Omarr also says he hadn't been in contact with Prince since 2011. And Larry spent an hour with Prince at PP on April 18.

benni said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

jtfolden said: Weird because prince was at the kingdom hall in march 20th 2016

And it was reported that Larry and Prince were "on the outs" because Larry wouldn't do anything, and Prince didn't like "freeloaders". Can't remember which page of the documents that I read that in, but I read it.

[Edited 4/22/18 19:33pm]

disch said:

jtfolden said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

In the reports, Prince had told Dr. Schulenberg that he was not feeling well after he ate some soup.

WAIT... if you're trying to connect the soup made by the chef to statements made by Prince to Dr. Schulenberg then you've got some wires crossed on the timelines. The bisque soup was not delivered until AFTER Prince had come back from seeing the Doc.

Yes, Prince told the Doc he had vomited earlier in the week and blamed it on some soup but that's not the same soup.


Also, I looked at some later photos from 4/21 and the meal is missing from the table we see it at in the video. So perhaps Kirk or Meron had set the meal out for Prince to eat the evening of 4/20 and whoever cleaned up later in 4/21 sat the food back in the fridge.

Prince was in denial about what made him vomit, clearly.

His denial and not seeking help...it's what caused his life to end as a Greek tragedy, Chanhassen-style.

precioux said:

Disch, I understand your points..but... if KJ thought Prince was ok and and could handle himself, WHY did he admittedly take the 3 prescriptions P had just gotten from the pharmacy under the guise that in his opinion,Prince should only be taking those meds (Clonidine, Xanax) in a “supervised setting”(this is in the documents)...meaning he did not trust Prince would not take them all at one time or take too much? This makes no sense. KJ knew he was not in a good frame of mind disch said:

someone who at that point has been awake for probably well over 24 hours.

-

While I'm sure this was awrenching thing for Andrew to be part of, he didn't have the kind of personal investment in the situation that the people in P's inner circle.

-

I think Andrew comes across fine here. He seemed genuinely concerned with trying to help Prince. He wanted to get to PP asap when he got off that all-night flight. I think Kirk and Meron delayed slightly to try to accomdate Prince's schedule. I think that they likely felt that after P's dr's appoinment the previous evening, P had things basically under control for the time. And frankly he probably would have been basically fine when they arrived at PP had he taken say a regular percocet to 2 that night and not the fentanyl-laced stuff.

precioux, great points, I totally agree with you!!!