chocolate1 said:

CarrieMpls said:

As for maybe changing my mind, that's what I'm trying to open myself up to. And I'm open to it, but I'm definitely not there yet.

My only concern now is what if I don't? I don't want my bf to miss this experience because I don't want it. He's totally a catch, I have no doubt there would be women lining up to have his babies. And we're both getting older. So making these kinds of decisions sooner than later is really only fair to both of us. So now I have to see where he stands with the idea of it never happening.

So what would you do if he says he can't accept the fact that you don't want to have kids?

I'll cross that bridge if I come to it.

Maybe you would be a good mother- I don't know you like that- but I don't think it's a good idea to have a baby just to keep him.

I'd never do that. Have you read the thread?

CarrieMpls said:

TotalANXiousNESS said:

He's already being referred to as Carries baby daddy!!!!!

right?

And incidentally, no, I don't think he looks like Lyle Lovett, but I can see what you mean by that particular pic... maybe...

I do think he looks a bit like althom which is hilarious considering when he was still he here he used to ask me to marry him, like, every week.

And yes, my man is way hotter than both of them.

I don't know who althom is but yo baby daddy is a million times better looking than Lyle Lovett,

Of course I've read the thread.

But when you say:

He's totally a catch, I have no doubt there would be women lining up to have his babies. And we're both getting older.

combined with how much you obviously care about him from all your posts, it's something to consider... "Would I want to because HE does, or do I just want to?"

No one is perfect- we all have our moments of weakness when it comes to relationships.

CarrieMpls said:

chocolate1 said:

I'll cross that bridge if I come to it.

Maybe you would be a good mother- I don't know you like that- but I don't think it's a good idea to have a baby just to keep him.

I'd never do that. Have you read the thread?

I totally get what Carrie is saying. Though I have never met her, I have internet known her long enough to see that she would not change her mind on children just to keep this guy.

She is a smart, sensible cookie!

I know where she is coming from though, it seems weird to consider something that you never really considered before.

It is good to keep an open mind & open heart.

Shanti0608 said:

CarrieMpls said:

I totally get what Carrie is saying. Though I have never met her, I have internet known her long enough to see that she would not change her mind on children just to keep this guy.

She is a smart, sensible cookie!

I know where she is coming from though, it seems weird to consider something that you never really considered before.

It is good to keep an open mind & open heart.

I thought I was smart and sensible too

sweet said:

Lammastide said:

Sweet.

It's like saying Beetlejuice, sometimes.

[Edited 9/23/10 7:05am]

I'd like kids, but NOT YET!!! I need time. But I appreciate their light.

Straight people my age are getting married, but I still need to get my thing going.

wow.. so many diff. stories and opinions here
- I am in the camp that thinks it's possible that ppl can be born bad/evil.. you never know what the pooling of genes is going to produce, and no matter how good you are to your child, there just may be something inherently 'wrong' with them.... Nature vs. Nurture anyone ...?

Anyway, I'm not a parent, but I've helped raise many.
I am the first grandchild on both sides, so I always had to help with my 4 younger sibs and all of my 1st cousins -- and some 2nd cousins (my mom was/is that super mom that you bring your kid to when you can't do the job right/at all). I also had my sister's oldest daughter (she was 3 or 4 at the time) for a few months when she moved to change careers.

My 8 nieces & nephews mean the world to me.. they might as well be my kids.. -- This Auntie/Titi will cut a MF ten ways for hurting one of "my" babies and feel no guilt whatsoever...
The first time I held my now 12-yr-old niece [she's the first/oldest of the bunch] she was 6 days old... I nearly cried, and my heart felt like it was going to absolutely burst from the love I felt for her and the desire to protect her from.. the world.

Any time I'm with those kids.... the world is a better place. Everything that bothers me, especially at work, doesn't seem so bad or impossible to deal with.
They remind me of and keep me grounded in love, patience, understanding... It is so fun and wonderful to teach them things, and watch them learn and absorb and grow, see their personalities develop....

I can't even convey to you how much I want one (maybe 2) of my own.... well, now..
~ I've always wanted a family (and that doesn't mean I have to get married or anything; I just want my child to have another responsible, reliable parent to love and care for them), but, I'm a magnet for idiots so I don't know what I'm going to do....

I'm glad, though, Carrie, that your family isn't pressuring you to have kids, and I hope you and your bf figure it out so that both of you are happy with the decision..

oh, as for some of the anti-kid posts....

I guess I can understand ~ to a degree.. Like, my relatives' and friends' kids -- I totally love... they're intelligent, well-behaved [most of the time], polite...

However, kids of ppl I don't know (like my rude, noisy ass neighbors)..

If they're not well-behaved.. I don't even want to see them. If I see a parent letting their child go absolutely ape-shit in public, I can't help but give a dirty look (to the parent)..

-- Couple of weeks ago some little boy, 8 or 9, playing in front of the house next door finished his water bottle and chucked it into the street as I was coming home from work one nite. The mother (?), sitting in a chair watching him and other kids play, said nothing...

I told him, "You don't throw trash into the street.. Do you want to cause a car accident? Put your garbage in the garbage can..." And he did. The woman said nothing....

ThreadBare said:

sweet said:

It's like saying Beetlejuice, sometimes.

[Edited 9/23/10 7:05am]

Kids are a gift to life. I absolutely love my children, my time with them....and helping them in their challenges. They are now both teens, and I cannot imagine life without them.

I cannot tell you something specific about being a parent, like an "advantage"....you're not taking a test when you have a child. I didn't feel I missed out on anything before a child, but after having two, I cannot fathom the idea of not having experienced motherhood.

You are embarking on the challenge of a lifetime when you bring a baby into the world...to help another human being learn everything from basics to matters of the heart. To be able to look into a face and hold a hand that is the perfect combination of you and the one you made the baby with.

I enjoy giving my children every little ounce of me and the quality of my life grew as I learned a deeper level of love that I never knew existed. Its an unselfish love, one where I taught them that our purpose as family is to just love each other in all ways, express it, smile, hug, support....that is what is around me all of the time. Any tiffs that we have are small, and far and few between. We wake up and greet each other with hugs and smiles.

If one is not patient, if one is not giving to the point where they would go without, if one is not truly selfless.....I do not recommend a child. However, if these are qualities that one possesses...there is a really good chance they will enjoy and value the experience.

Kids are a lot of work but they are not born "bad". Bad kids are the result of bad parenting.

For those that DO NOT have kids.... here is something you NEED to know.

Kids are nurtured into behavior they act out in,

so you can fuck up on the parenting even if you are a "good person" easily.

People who have bad kids are bad parents... plain and simple.

I didn't say they were BAD people, they just dropped the ball with thier kids.

Many things can come into play, neglect is usually the culprit. Neglect can happen in many ways also, especially if the parents live busy lives.

NO CHILD IS BORN BAD, that's BS, but kids learn from bad habits people have.

I have straightened out 3 bad ass fucking kids so far... they were brats until they got to be around me, because I do NOT play with any BS kids dish out. Its plain old common sense

I have three kids, one is a 19. I am a single mom, I am poor , I didn't get my college degree, but I am the best mom I know. I do not mess around when it comes to the EMOTIONAL health of my kids. I do my best to make sure they are well adjusted in our less than ideal situation I made for myself.

My children are all extremely well behaved (no... really ), and so will any child that comes my way... in time, if they are caught young enough.

I straighten them out with the quickness. I get repsect and I run a tight ship, because I am compassionate, patient and extremely strict, yet loving.

and that is all you really need.... no degree, $$$, or training can teach you how to LOVE a child, they are smart and they know when someone really loves them. They draw closer to that.

Real love...

all kids crave to be loved and affection, even if they are tough and rough or shy, they like the feeling they get when they feel like someone really cares about them.

[Edited 10/2/10 0:42am]

I think it is true. I've brought up 3 boys same way. One is very different than the other 2. There are some worrying signs about his behaviour. We try our best with him and of course we will never give up on him EVER, but I don't believe anything we have done has made him that way. He just seems to think in a completely different way, and it's occurred to me that the way I raise the other 2 just simply isn't what he needs - except I don't KNOW what he needs since most approaches I try don't work with him.

ZombieKitten said:

PositivityNYC said:

- I am in the camp that thinks it's possible that ppl can be born bad/evil.. you never know what the pooling of genes is going to produce, and no matter how good you are to your child, there just may be something inherently 'wrong' with them.... Nature vs. Nurture anyone ...?

I think it is true. I've brought up 3 boys same way. One is very different than the other 2. There are some worrying signs about his behaviour. We try our best with him and of course we will never give up on him EVER, but I don't believe anything we have done has made him that way. He just seems to think in a completely different way, and it's occurred to me that the way I raise the other 2 just simply isn't what he needs - except I don't KNOW what he needs since most approaches I try don't work with him.

Birth order can play a major role in how a child is treated. Most parents stay consistent, but events in a child's POV is very different.

Parents can say "We raised you all the same"

children will always claim otherwise... because from their own personal POV the parents may have made different allowances for each child depending on age/temperament/etc....

also many parents never realize they are neglecting their child until its too late.

Children are pretty smart, and if a parent doesn't take the time to explain the world to a child in depth then the child can misunderstand situations because each child has a different personality, which means they react differently to situations, but this doesn't make the "bad".

Most "bad" kids are kids that know adults are full of shit because they know they have been lied to or their feelings were always disregarded. They just don't feel and feel envy around other children that tend to seem happier in their POV.

For example, when a child has been given a broken lollipop and his sibling gets the unbroken one ... that child may hold that against their sibling and feel like there is favoritism in the family. Unless mom or dad tells makes up for it or explains the why, how, when , where....

Every brat has issues with communication with their parents, and that's the parents fault. Most people who don't know how to communicate (like passive aggressiveness, a shouter, a whishy washy person) will carry that behavior on when dealing with their kids and the kids will feed off and learn bad habits because of it.

People are not perfect, and parents are not perfect... you just figure things out the best you can, with each child situations in the same household can differ, simply because we learn as we go along and fix mistakes or make new ones with each child.

my humble opinion... because I have turned "bad" kids good. Its just how you explain their world to them to get them to trust you... sorta like how a pedophile manipulates kids. Sick way to explain but its how those sickos get kids to do what they want.

paintedlady said:

ZombieKitten said:

I think it is true. I've brought up 3 boys same way. One is very different than the other 2. There are some worrying signs about his behaviour. We try our best with him and of course we will never give up on him EVER, but I don't believe anything we have done has made him that way. He just seems to think in a completely different way, and it's occurred to me that the way I raise the other 2 just simply isn't what he needs - except I don't KNOW what he needs since most approaches I try don't work with him.

Birth order can play a major role in how a child is treated. Most parents stay consistent, but events in a child's POV is very different.

Parents can say "We raised you all the same"

children will always claim otherwise... because from their own personal POV the parents may have made different allowances for each child depending on age/temperament/etc....

also many parents never realize they are neglecting their child until its too late.

Children are pretty smart, and if a parent doesn't take the time to explain the world to a child in depth then the child can misunderstand situations because each child has a different personality, which means they react differently to situations, but this doesn't make the "bad".

Most "bad" kids are kids that know adults are full of shit because they know they have been lied to or their feelings were always disregarded. They just don't feel and feel envy around other children that tend to seem happier in their POV.

For example, when a child has been given a broken lollipop and his sibling gets the unbroken one ... that child may hold that against their sibling and feel like there is favoritism in the family. Unless mom or dad tells makes up for it or explains the why, how, when , where....

Every brat has issues with communication with their parents, and that's the parents fault. Most people who don't know how to communicate (like passive aggressiveness, a shouter, a whishy washy person) will carry that behavior on when dealing with their kids and the kids will feed off and learn bad habits because of it.

People are not perfect, and parents are not perfect... you just figure things out the best you can, with each child situations in the same household can differ, simply because we learn as we go along and fix mistakes or make new ones with each child.

my humble opinion... because I have turned "bad" kids good. Its just how you explain their world to them to get them to trust you... sorta like how a pedophile manipulates kids. Sick way to explain but its how those sickos get kids to do what they want.

you know the noisiest wheel gets the most oil or however that is? the good kids are the ones getting neglected in this case the constant demand for our attention is ceaseless.

ZombieKitten said:

you know the noisiest wheel gets the most oil or however that is? the good kids are the ones getting neglected in this case the constant demand for our attention is ceaseless.

You are so right about that!!! Couldn't of said it better , I'm too long winded ... OMG I have to keep telling my baby girl that I love her, because I am always spending more time with Matthew since he's the "sickly" one.

Kids are great, but they are so much darn work.

paintedlady said:

ZombieKitten said:

you know the noisiest wheel gets the most oil or however that is? the good kids are the ones getting neglected in this case the constant demand for our attention is ceaseless.

You are so right about that!!! Couldn't of said it better , I'm too long winded ... OMG I have to keep telling my baby girl that I love her, because I am always spending more time with Matthew since he's the "sickly" one.

Kids are great, but they are so much darn work.

I'd say all three kids are going to complain they aren't the favourite child, despite us pulling each aside every day to say "you know you are mummy and daddy's favourite, right?"

ZombieKitten said:

paintedlady said:

You are so right about that!!! Couldn't of said it better , I'm too long winded ... OMG I have to keep telling my baby girl that I love her, because I am always spending more time with Matthew since he's the "sickly" one.

Kids are great, but they are so much darn work.

I'd say all three kids are going to complain they aren't the favourite child, despite us pulling each aside every day to say "you know you are mummy and daddy's favourite, right?"

I am so glad that my kids aren't too close in age or the same sex... they want to be treated different.

Otherwise I'd get the "I hate that he/she's your favorite!"

The 19 yr old son is like "mom, leave me alone... stop smothering me"

The 10 yr old son is like "mom, I wanna be like my older brother because my sister bugs me"

and the 8 yr.old girl is like "mom... I wanna be alone now"

THANK GOODNESS!

They all come together for cookies though.

paintedlady said:

ZombieKitten said:

I'd say all three kids are going to complain they aren't the favourite child, despite us pulling each aside every day to say "you know you are mummy and daddy's favourite, right?"

I am so glad that my kids aren't too close in age or the same sex... they want to be treated different.

Otherwise I'd get the "I hate that he/she's your favorite!"

The 19 yr old son is like "mom, leave me alone... stop smothering me"

The 10 yr old son is like "mom, I wanna be like my older brother because my sister bugs me"

and the 8 yr.old girl is like "mom... I wanna be alone now"

THANK GOODNESS!

They all come together for cookies though.

mine all want snuggles still ALL THE TIME!!!

ZombieKitten said:

paintedlady said:

I am so glad that my kids aren't too close in age or the same sex... they want to be treated different.

Otherwise I'd get the "I hate that he/she's your favorite!"

The 19 yr old son is like "mom, leave me alone... stop smothering me"

The 10 yr old son is like "mom, I wanna be like my older brother because my sister bugs me"

and the 8 yr.old girl is like "mom... I wanna be alone now"

THANK GOODNESS!

They all come together for cookies though.

mine all want snuggles still ALL THE TIME!!!

Awww!

There's also the entertainment factor...

[Edited 10/2/10 6:04am]

[Edited 10/2/10 6:11am]

^^^

YES!

If I had a dollar for every time my kids made me laugh til my stomach hurt, I'd be a rich woman.

g3ajg said:

I'm very late to the party. But wanted to say that I'm a father of one who wasn't really planned and neither of us could decide whether we wanted kids but it is an amazing phase in your life and they make you smile like nothing else. With regards to the travelling and lack of freedom that has been mentioned I always viewed the changes as only temporary, we have gone on holiday many times with the baby - different types of trips than before but I know I'll be 'free' again one day to go back to being selfish and doing just what my wife and I want to do. I view the kid thing as a phase and that I'll do everything I can to give them an enjoyable upbringing and arm them with some life skills that I see fit and then off they go into the world. I see so many parents when the kids have grown up, still want to be the 'adult' and don't let go and therefore the relationship suffers. It most cases they need something to fill the void - I've got plenty of things planned in 20 years time. [Edited 10/2/10 4:19am]

Co-sign. good point!

paintedlady said:

For those that DO NOT have kids.... here is something you NEED to know.

Kids are nurtured into behavior they act out in,

so you can fuck up on the parenting even if you are a "good person" easily.

People who have bad kids are bad parents... plain and simple.

I didn't say they were BAD people, they just dropped the ball with thier kids.

Many things can come into play, neglect is usually the culprit. Neglect can happen in many ways also, especially if the parents live busy lives.

NO CHILD IS BORN BAD, that's BS, but kids learn from bad habits people have.

I have straightened out 3 bad ass fucking kids so far... they were brats until they got to be around me, because I do NOT play with any BS kids dish out. Its plain old common sense

I have three kids, one is a 19. I am a single mom, I am poor , I didn't get my college degree, but I am the best mom I know. I do not mess around when it comes to the EMOTIONAL health of my kids. I do my best to make sure they are well adjusted in our less than ideal situation I made for myself.

My children are all extremely well behaved (no... really ), and so will any child that comes my way... in time, if they are caught young enough.

I straighten them out with the quickness. I get repsect and I run a tight ship, because I am compassionate, patient and extremely strict, yet loving.

and that is all you really need.... no degree, $$$, or training can teach you how to LOVE a child, they are smart and they know when someone really loves them. They draw closer to that.

Real love...

all kids crave to be loved and affection, even if they are tough and rough or shy, they like the feeling they get when they feel like someone really cares about them.

[Edited 10/2/10 0:42am]

I have a bad kid. I am not a bad parent.

Vendetta1 said:

paintedlady said:

For those that DO NOT have kids.... here is something you NEED to know.

Kids are nurtured into behavior they act out in,

so you can fuck up on the parenting even if you are a "good person" easily.

People who have bad kids are bad parents... plain and simple.

I didn't say they were BAD people, they just dropped the ball with thier kids.

Many things can come into play, neglect is usually the culprit. Neglect can happen in many ways also, especially if the parents live busy lives.

NO CHILD IS BORN BAD, that's BS, but kids learn from bad habits people have.

I have straightened out 3 bad ass fucking kids so far... they were brats until they got to be around me, because I do NOT play with any BS kids dish out. Its plain old common sense

I have three kids, one is a 19. I am a single mom, I am poor , I didn't get my college degree, but I am the best mom I know. I do not mess around when it comes to the EMOTIONAL health of my kids. I do my best to make sure they are well adjusted in our less than ideal situation I made for myself.

My children are all extremely well behaved (no... really ), and so will any child that comes my way... in time, if they are caught young enough.

I straighten them out with the quickness. I get repsect and I run a tight ship, because I am compassionate, patient and extremely strict, yet loving.

and that is all you really need.... no degree, $$$, or training can teach you how to LOVE a child, they are smart and they know when someone really loves them. They draw closer to that.

Real love...

all kids crave to be loved and affection, even if they are tough and rough or shy, they like the feeling they get when they feel like someone really cares about them.

[Edited 10/2/10 0:42am]

I have a bad kid. I am not a bad parent.

If the same kid was doing great would you give yourself credit for that?

A bad parent is not a bad person, some of the nicest people I know fall under the "bad parent" catergory simply because they are so busy with life that parenting falls to the wayside. (Not saying this is your situation, there are a many examples why kids go astray)

I don't say that to judge mothers (especially single moms that do it all alone with zero f-ing support), but I believe there is a cause and effect to every situation. Kids are not born bad or are bad, they are react that way because of their situation that is handed to them.

The "badness" is more like a symptom of a real or deeper issue.

Just like if that same child was at Yale on the Dean's list... coming up with a cure for the common cold, you'd be patting yourself on the back.... so would other people too...

"Good job MOM!"

This is my feeling, if we give ourselves credit for good kids, then too we should give ourselves credit when the kids go astray... this is not to say "beat yourself up" and have a defeatest attitude, I just do not like saying a child is BAD because it writes off the child as being doomed to alway fail

No person is perfect, adult or child, that being said, I think any badass can learn to be positive and be sucessful, its all about how you look at the situation.

its just tough when a child reacts in a negative way when you try your best...

PS...

I HAVE to add, any person can be BAD and GOOD...

so no child is BAD but a child can be dumb as hell.

I have not met bad kids, just really dumb ones or ones that are smart as hell..

sometimes too smart for their own good.

So yeah, kids that tend to get into trouble are either REALLY smart or REALLY dumb. In either case, to prevent them from doing bad shit, they need in depth instruction and tons more vigilance than the average kid.

seriously

[Edited 10/2/10 16:10pm]

paintedlady said:

Vendetta1 said:

I have a bad kid. I am not a bad parent.

If the same kid was doing great would you give yourself credit for that?

A bad parent is not a bad person, some of the nicest people I know fall under the "bad parent" catergory simply because they are so busy with life that parenting falls to the wayside. (Not saying this is your situation, there are a many examples why kids go astray)

I don't say that to judge mothers (especially single moms that do it all alone with zero f-ing support), but I believe there is a cause and effect to every situation. Kids are not born bad or are bad, they are react that way because of their situation that is handed to them.

The "badness" is more like a symptom of a real or deeper issue.

Just like if that same child was at Yale on the Dean's list... coming up with a cure for the common cold, you'd be patting yourself on the back.... so would other people too...

"Good job MOM!"

This is my feeling, if we give ourselves credit for good kids, then too we should give ourselves credit when the kids go astray... this is not to say "beat yourself up" and have a defeatest attitude, I just do not like saying a child is BAD because it writes off the child as being doomed to alway fail

No person is perfect, adult or child, that being said, I think any badass can learn to be positive and be sucessful, its all about how you look at the situation.

its just tough when a child reacts in a negative way when you try your best...

No, while other people pat me on the back for my oldest son's success, I give all the praise to him. Once my kids got of age to know right from wrong, the path that their lives took was on them.