CarrieMpls said:

MoniGram said:

When I had kids, I was young, way young. I didn't plan on having kids but I am glad I did. It's a feeling that is very hard to describe, but it's been worth it. Now that my kids are older I can look at who they have become etc... this brings me great joy.

Then there is the grandbabies...a love that is far different then having your own children that's for sure. I can't imagine my life without Miss Seyhan & Miss Zoey!

To be honest I would love to have another one...or even adopt one. My children gave me a sense of purpose in life.

But I agree with others, just leave the idea on the table, you never know what will happen with your relationship with your bf. You said yourself you never thought you would want to get married but those thoughts changed. You might change your mind on this as well.

If you don't mind me asking, what keeps you from having them? Are there more things you wish to do in your life? Do you just feel that having kids will hold you back?

Like, why don’t I want kids?

Oh my gosh, where do I start? Here a just a few:

Kids are incredibly expensive. I’ve always been able to take care of myself, but I don’t know if I can take care of someone else too.

Freedom – to do what I want, when I want to. I’ve never wanted a dog because it was too much commitment – always having to be home at certain times to let it out, all the training involved, etc. Multiply all that commitment (time, resources, energy, money, etc.) by a million with a child.

Kids are a tremendous amount of work. I’m generally a pretty lazy person. I don’t think those two things mix very well.

Kids have never really interested me. Really.

And the biggest is it’s such an awesome responsibility. As I said before, I have very high ideals on how I feel a child should be raised and I don’t know that I’d live up to them. Being a bad parent is probably the worst thing I could imagine for my life, the biggest failure as a person ever. There are plenty of other things I’m good at and like to do. And for most of my life would rather do.

Now, all that said, I’m trying to see the other side.

Wow those are all great reasons not to do it. I could easily say that when you have a child of your own things like that change, and you might surprise yourself how much you enjoy being at home, and wouldn't mind the extra work it takes.

Here are the good things I enjoy about being a Mom:

Their first laugh

Their first smile

The way they wrap their tiny hand around my finger

The first time they walk and talk

The way they looked at me (in their eyes I was the coolest thing ever)

The pride I would feel when they were happy with something they did

The little notes they would leave me on my desk, or pillow saying "I love you Mom"

The way my son use to say when he was little "Mom, when I was in heaven, I looked down and saw you, and said God can she be my Mommy?" (Saying this makes me cry)

The pride I get watching my eldest daughter take care of her girls

Seyhan & Zoey

Hear my son giggle

The first time I watched my youngest daughter dance a solo in her ballet group

The love they give me

Game nights on New Years Eve when they were little

Slumber parties in the living room

Sunday breakfasts and laying around in our Pj's

The pride I feel in my heart looking at my girls as young adults and the pride I feel when I look at my son who is growing up to be a fine young man.

Those are just a few to a million reasons why I love being a Mom, and I don't regret one day of their life. I won't sit here and say having kids is easy. It's crazy hard, and it's not just the time or money that is difficult. It's hard because you want to give all you can to that child, and you want to fix everything in their lives and make things perfect, and when they hurt, oh my goodness you hurt too. But all that hard work, time etc...for me was worth it, even on those days when my kids are having a bad day.

But I think it's great that you are seriously thinking about these things. As long as you feel that you can look back at your choice of not having kids with zero regret, then you are probably doing what is best for you. There are soooo many people who shouldn't have had kids. So many kids who suffer from that. I think it's really something that you are thinking this thing through. But on that same note, some of the best things in life are things that just happen. Like a baby!

Good luck...I hope you and your bf can come to equal ground on this subject.

PunkMistress said:

Let me be the umpteenth person on this thread to mention the utter, complete, unconditional love.

My kids are all teens and preteens, but they still love to come and curl up beside me, just to feel the closeness of my body. When they do that, or when they ask me a question about life, with this expectant glow in their eyes that says they just know I'll have the right answer (even if I don't)...it's hard to describe, but I'm trying. It validates you. It fills you with the knowledge that you are one hundred percent lovable and loved. It humbles and exalts you all at the same time. My children don't love me because I'm nice, or smart, or funny, or pretty or whatever. I'm sure there are qualities I have that make them like me more (or dislike me more, lol), but their love is like something supernatural that just is, because I am their mother. Part of it is biological; that incredible bond that you share with a human being that you actually formed inside your body, then cared for and protected from harm when they were an exquisitely vulnerable tiny little thing. But two of my children aren't my biological kids, and that incredible love is present with them, too. It's like God, in that God is Love sense.

Thanks for this thread, Carrie. Reflecting on this has made me feel really happy inside.

Very well said Erin...you really describe the feeling of what it's like to be a Mom and the joy you feel having kids.

chocolate1 said:

I've said this before: I kept putting off having a baby, waiting for the "right guy" to have one with, putting my schooling and career first...

Then in 2008 it no longer became my choice- physically.

To me, being able to have a baby is the biggest blessing in the world. It hurts me very much that I will never give birth.

(and I am so tired of being told I can adopt. I know that. I'm talking about having my ability as a female animal to bear young taken away. )

CarrieMpls said:

CarrieMpls said:

purpledoveuk said:

CarrieMpls said:

So now we both have a lot to think about. I’m willing to reconsider my position (provided we’re still together and married down the road) as long as we can figure out how to have a baby and still accomplish our other life goals.>

Sorry, didn't read this bit...simple answer is you can't do everything. You either have kids and things change through choice or automatically (I'm not the person I was at all) or you remain the same as you are now....it's literally a junction in life.

I don't think you're wrong. But I do think it's worth saying the change you speak of needn't be a wholesale explosion of the person you were before -- with goals, a zest for life, etc. It's just that with kids there needs to be more masterful planning and, yes, reprioritizing. I've travelled to more parts of the world and had a far more vibrant career, for example, since my kid was born, and I think it's in part because she inspires me to live with more intentionality and... I dunno ..."oomph!?"

[Edited 9/21/10 6:30am]

Cerebus said:

To be perfectly blunt about it, and speaking as someone who has known since the age of thirteen that he was never going to have kids, if you don't want a child, don't have one. There is no acceptable compromise in this regard. There are far too many people in this world who regret having children, or who just plain shouldn't have and end up doing a piss poor job of the whole thing.

If you know it's not something that you've ever been interested in, why would you change your mind about it now? For love? Because you think that will make the relationship last? Is taking away from the time you have to spend together and creating a whole other WORLD of things to worry about REALLY what you think will help in that regard?

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, either. But you mentioned that it was never something you wanted in the past. So in that regard I feel like I need to put this stuff out there. I know it's not popular, but I don't care. The societal norms forced upon us to go to school, get a steady job, buy car, get a mate, get married, buy house, have kids, wash, rinse and repeat are nonsense. They don't work for everybody and it's unfortunate that people who don't play by those rules are seen as the "strange" ones.

Anyway. Nuff' said. I'm actually really holding back here. But that's generally how I feel about it.

I agree with everything you’ve said.

I feel no pressure from family or friends to have a child. My brother has 4 kids, so my parents have plenty of grands to love and care for and my friends who want babies have them, for the most part. Many of my friends plan to remain childless – it’s totally normal in my social circle.

I also feel no pressure to have a child to fit into some societal norm. I already don’t. I don’t own a car, I’m a vegetarian… These are silly examples but they don’t fit the bill of “typical American”. I’m completely comfortable going my own way as far as how I want to live my life.

As for having a baby to keep a man around, that would never happen. I will make up my mind about what I want for myself and hope he and I can come to terms with whatever differences there may be. I’ve met someone who makes me happy. And I make him happy. And I think we could probably keep making each other happy. So I’m opening my mind and heart to the idea that maybe my life could be different than I initially envisioned. I’m open to change.

My initial plan was to remain single forever. Then I changed my mind about that about 5 years ago. And even after deciding marriage is something I really wanted, for various reasons I didn’t think it would ever happen. So I made my plans and goals assuming I’d be single forever. There was no room to even think about having kids if I wasn’t even going to find a husband.

Now I’m in a position to think about it. So that’s what I’m doing. Reconsidering.

First let me start by saying that since I have an 11 month old, I do not have time to read all of the replies on this thread. So I am sure that other parents have said some of the same things that I am about to say.

I think for me personally, I had my own ideas and reasons for having a child.

I never, ever , ever wanted to give birth to a child. I always thought that if I ever was in the perfect situation for a child that I would adopt. Which that is still something we might consider in the future if we feel that we want a bigger family.

I never considered or seriously thought about having a baby until I was about 34 years old.

Even when I was married previously, it was never something we wanted to do as a couple and for personal reasons, I never wanted to do it alone.

For me, I always had a milllion reasons that I did not want children but never stopped to think of the reasons that I might want to have them.

It is a huge life changing personal decision.

I must say that being a parent is harder than I ever imagined but very rewarding.

I have to say that it does test a relationship and it ties you to that person forever.

There are a lot of things to consider before you make a life changing decision like having children or a child in my case.

we still look at him and think, "Wow, we made him!"

It is an incredible experience and nothing that you read can prepare you for the feelings you will have when you first meet the human being that you created.

There really is nothing like it.

(I think you would be an awesome mom, Carrie )

Lammastide said:

CarrieMpls said:

Cerebus said:

To be perfectly blunt about it, and speaking as someone who has known since the age of thirteen that he was never going to have kids, if you don't want a child, don't have one. There is no acceptable compromise in this regard. There are far too many people in this world who regret having children, or who just plain shouldn't have and end up doing a piss poor job of the whole thing.

If you know it's not something that you've ever been interested in, why would you change your mind about it now? For love? Because you think that will make the relationship last? Is taking away from the time you have to spend together and creating a whole other WORLD of things to worry about REALLY what you think will help in that regard?

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, either. But you mentioned that it was never something you wanted in the past. So in that regard I feel like I need to put this stuff out there. I know it's not popular, but I don't care. The societal norms forced upon us to go to school, get a steady job, buy car, get a mate, get married, buy house, have kids, wash, rinse and repeat are nonsense. They don't work for everybody and it's unfortunate that people who don't play by those rules are seen as the "strange" ones.

Anyway. Nuff' said. I'm actually really holding back here. But that's generally how I feel about it.

I agree with everything you’ve said.

I feel no pressure from family or friends to have a child. My brother has 4 kids, so my parents have plenty of grands to love and care for and my friends who want babies have them, for the most part. Many of my friends plan to remain childless – it’s totally normal in my social circle.

I also feel no pressure to have a child to fit into some societal norm. I already don’t. I don’t own a car, I’m a vegetarian… These are silly examples but they don’t fit the bill of “typical American”. I’m completely comfortable going my own way as far as how I want to live my life.

As for having a baby to keep a man around, that would never happen. I will make up my mind about what I want for myself and hope he and I can come to terms with whatever differences there may be. I’ve met someone who makes me happy. And I make him happy. And I think we could probably keep making each other happy. So I’m opening my mind and heart to the idea that maybe my life could be different than I initially envisioned. I’m open to change.

My initial plan was to remain single forever. Then I changed my mind about that about 5 years ago. And even after deciding marriage is something I really wanted, for various reasons I didn’t think it would ever happen. So I made my plans and goals assuming I’d be single forever. There was no room to even think about having kids if I wasn’t even going to find a husband.

Now I’m in a position to think about it. So that’s what I’m doing. Reconsidering.

You have every right to reconsider. I still have a few friends back in FLorida that are in shock and do not believe that I have a baby. I was the one that NEVER was going to have a baby. They have not seen me in 3 years since I moved here, they are going to see proof in the flesh in 2 weeks.

there's a thought....do you feel like you want kids, or do you feel like you want this man's kids? Children are a powerful bond. I know I would not want to have just anybody's kids, but with one man, my love was so strong that I did reevaluate my stance. Are you that much in love? (rhetorical question which you don't have to answer ) I do believe children should be made with love....

purpledoveuk said:

Lammastide said:

I don't think you're wrong. But I do think it's worth saying the change you speak of needn't be a wholesale explosion of the person you were before -- with goals, a zest for life, etc. It's just that with kids there needs to be more masterful planning and, yes, reprioritizing. I've travelled to more parts of the world and had a far more vibrant career, for example, since my kid was born, and I think it's in part because she inspires me to live with more intentionality and... I dunno ..."oomph!?"

[Edited 9/21/10 6:30am]

I agree, I was sort of referring/reflecting on a few friends of mine who had kids about 6-9months after me. When my boy was young, and before theirs was born they were all righteous about 'they were going to do this and that' and actually belittling done of our choices because they couldn't see it from a with-child point of view. I think it's safe to say you can't be full on career minded and full on child-raiser

I hear ya.

Yes, the perspectives of those on either side of a kid are often quite different.

[Edited 9/21/10 7:20am]

By the way, have we ever seen a photo of this bloke who's gonna knock Carrie up?

There are consequences for not securing prior Org Gay Mafia approval.

Lammastide said:

By the way, have we ever seen a photo of this bloke who's gonna knock Carrie up?

There are consequences for not securing prior Org Gay Mafia approval.

BklynBabe said:

there's a thought....do you feel like you want kids, or do you feel like you want this man's kids? Children are a powerful bond. I know I would not want to have just anybody's kids, but with one man, my love was so strong that I did reevaluate my stance. Are you that much in love? (rhetorical question which you don't have to answer ) I do believe children should be made with love....

Well, that’s a big part of it. If I weren’t with him I wouldn’t be considering this.

What’s interesting to me is that when we first met he told me he didn’t want kids. It was brought up very casually about 2 months in as my friends just had a baby so I snuck in the question. He said no. And I told him I didn’t either. (Mind you, this is after he cleverly asked me my thoughts about marriage. We were having dinner in a restaurant and were seated at a window. He looked out the window at one point, pointed across the street and asked – “so, do you think you might want to go shopping there one day?” It was a bridal shop. He quickly and sheepishly added “I mean, I’m not saying… I’m just saying…” So I said “are you asking me if I’d like to get married… someday” And he said yes. And I said yes, I would like to get married someday. And he said he did too. *squeal*)

It got brought up a while later in another conversation and he told me that he used to want kids but had given up on the idea as he thought it was too late (he was single for a handful of years before we met).

Then he brought it up again a few weeks ago. Quite seriously. It’s really something we have to agree on if we’re going to stay together.

So in that sense, I think he had resigned himself to not, but meeting me has changed his mind. That’s pretty big.

not that it's all mushy lovey dovey all the time.

i have a 15 year old who takes a shower. for an hour. and doesn't realize she's using up all the hot water. despite being told again. and again. and again.

and..

if we have someplace to go, and it's going to take an hour to get there....5 minutes before we have to leave, she's looking for her flats, or looking for her coverup, or first going to to do her hair, because she has no sense of time whatsoever and feels no sense of urgency either so we're gonig to be late and have to make excuses....sigh. the 15 year old was climbing a tree. in flip flops. and slipped and fell. and broke her arm. a year later she was riding her razor scooter with her sister, and lost her balance. and fell. and broke her arm.

and the 10 year old.

"sara, go take a shower" Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

"sara, go clean up your room" Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo

etc.

etc.

etc.

but we still love them dearly.

Yeah, hate 'em.

Lammastide said:

By the way, have we ever seen a photo of this bloke who's gonna knock Carrie up?

There are consequences for not securing prior Org Gay Mafia approval.

This is the most recent I have. He's the one holding the beer looking dreamy. I'm the one sitting down looking tired. lol.

Lammastide said:

JustErin said:

CarrieMpls said:

Lammastide said:

By the way, have we ever seen a photo of this bloke who's gonna knock Carrie up?

There are consequences for not securing prior Org Gay Mafia approval.

This is the most recent I have. He's the one holding the beer looking dreamy. I'm the one sitting down looking tired. lol.

Cute pair you are. You have my blessing.

He is cute Carrie...

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

*sidenote to the org - white people, who were cursed the rest of their days to be black, who have kids, are not allowed to live, properly. ( i know, i know, thats my own personal drama)

Awwwww.

I don't know how to tell you what the advantages of having a child are, except that in my personal experience you'll never feel love like the love you feel for your child. There is no greater love in the world.

I can't imagine what my life would be like if I wasn't a Mother.

Welllllll maybe I can. I'd have a lot more freedom.

But I'd be missing out on a lot too.

Imagine what its like to be there with your child as they discover everything for the first time. Like, the first time they see the wind blowing through the trees, or the first time they catch a lightning bug. Loosing their first tooth or the joy and pride you have the first time they take a step. The look of achievement on their face the first time they ride a bike. Flying a kite. Those are the times I love.

But I mean, there is no rule that says everyone must make babies. I just always knew I wanted to be a Mommy some day. That was the only real goal I had ever had.

You have big dreams and different goals than I did.

When I hear your stories and the things your up to I'm in awe of you, cuz it's a life I never had, and can't even imagine having and its so cool to me.

If you would like children though, I'm sure you're goals will still be attainable. They might just take a little longer.

Good luck to you guys. So fricken cute!

CarrieMpls said:

Lammastide said:

By the way, have we ever seen a photo of this bloke who's gonna knock Carrie up?

There are consequences for not securing prior Org Gay Mafia approval.

This is the most recent I have. He's the one holding the beer looking dreamy. I'm the one sitting down looking tired. lol.

He's hot! Awwww, so romantic! To even have someone look at you thinking they would like to spend their life with you and mix DNA with you is a heady feeling! I'm really happy for you both!

myfavorite said:

*sidenote to the org - white people, who were cursed the rest of their days to be black, who have kids, are not allowed to live, properly. ( i know, i know, thats my own personal drama)

What the...

What??

PunkMistress said:

myfavorite said:

*sidenote to the org - white people, who were cursed the rest of their days to be black, who have kids, are not allowed to live, properly. ( i know, i know, thats my own personal drama)

What the...

What??

just chalk it up for another argument as to why having dogs and planting acorns is a good idea.....

BklynBabe said:

PunkMistress said:

What the...

What??

just chalk it up for another argument as to why having dogs and planting acorns is a good idea.....

Dogs who are cursed the rest of their days to be cats.

CarrieMpls said:

Lammastide said:

By the way, have we ever seen a photo of this bloke who's gonna knock Carrie up?

There are consequences for not securing prior Org Gay Mafia approval.

This is the most recent I have. He's the one holding the beer looking dreamy. I'm the one sitting down looking tired. lol.

Its been bugging me that your bf resembles someone to me and I just figured it out!!

Dontcha think??

Perhaps I'm completely wrong, but the "masses" keep having kids because it's one of those things that "you're supposed to do", like High School (and college), or a nice pension plan; "basic" things that keep the system functioning correctly. Or maybe is just that old instinct of self-preservation ... humanity needs new specimens... and people unconsciously know it...

Hell, those marriages who refuse to have children are somewhat stigmatized by 90% of the society...they are viewed as excentric, vile, materialistic, bitter and/or just plain immature... and that's not fair...

Also, I strongly think that I'd be a very bad father: irresponsible, cynical, slighty uncaring, etc. ; why? I'm not sure, perhaps because I'm the youngest of three brothers and I've always received love by people older than me, not the other way around; maybe because I like to party too much (and children ARE expensive); maybe because there are A LOT of things that I STILL want to do and that I COULDN'T do with a kid; maybe because many things about this world are just plain wrong and my kid would be raised in cynicism and fear, or maybe because I like kids but I don't like it when they grow up to become irritationg teenagers with their silly complaints ...

The key is: many, many marriages keep having kids and then they realize that "maybe" it was a bad idea... and the one who pays for it is the kid...

I'm certainly looking for a woman who feels the same way ; that said, one (and one only) kid when we're both 38 or 39 would be nice, though...perhaps...

[Edited 9/21/10 10:37am]