tinaz said:

Does anyone else think she may be OVER thinking it? I mean sure, if I weighed the pros and cons of having children BEFORE i had them, who in their right mind would of ever had them!

I'm in agreement here. What's wrong with getting blootered and having an unplanned pregancy?

CarrieMpls said:

I have very high ideals on how I feel a child should be raised and I don’t know that I’d live up to them. Being a bad parent is probably the worst thing I could imagine for my life, the biggest failure as a person ever.

this is one reason I don't, as well, and it makes me think it may be based more in the scars of my own childhood than any feelings I may have about wanting kids of my own.

PunkMistress said:

tinaz said:

But didnt you say you had already had children... You knew what to expect, and what the feelings were...

Im just saying, how many of us who have children really did all this thinking and analyzing?

Lots of us probably should have.

I wish it was a decision more people put some actual thought into beyond "damn, fucking feels great without a condom!"

I don’t know how anyone makes major life decisions without carefully contemplating all the aspects.

Sure, I might have chosen an outfit, a vacation destination or even a boyfriend based on an impulse or romantic notion throughout the years but if something’s going to impact me for the rest of my life, I’m going to put some thought into it.

chocolate1 said:

I've said this before: I kept putting off having a baby, waiting for the "right guy" to have one with, putting my schooling and career first...

Then in 2008 it no longer became my choice- physically.

To me, being able to have a baby is the biggest blessing in the world. It hurts me very much that I will never give birth.

(and I am so tired of being told I can adopt. I know that. I'm talking about having my ability as a female animal to bear young taken away. )

I love you sis!!

tinaz said:

PunkMistress said:

Lots of us probably should have.

I wish it was a decision more people put some actual thought into beyond "damn, fucking feels great without a condom!"

but seriously, all Im saying is, did you analyze it that much, and if you didnt but thought you should have, can you say you regret what you did... Im gonna say no, so my point is, im not trying to say she should have kids because obviously she really doesnt them, what im saying is, sometimes people think to much... You either wanna share your life and devote it to children or you dont... you shouldnt have to talk yourself into it..

I got knocked up in high school, so it's fair to say I didn't analyze it too much.

I hear what you're saying, I really do. But I think in Carrie's case, there's a lot more at stake than just, "eh, I want 'em or I don't." She has spent years and years building exactly the life she wants, and I think it's extremely smart for her to think very carefully about how drastically she wants that life to change.

Also, this thread isn't about whether she should have a child - she isn't asking us to talk her into it. She's gathering information about the reality of having a kid so she can make a sensible decision, and in this thread she's just asking us to share some information with her - specifically, what makes it worth it for us.

CarrieMpls said:

PunkMistress said:

Lots of us probably should have.

I wish it was a decision more people put some actual thought into beyond "damn, fucking feels great without a condom!"

I don’t know how anyone makes major life decisions without carefully contemplating all the aspects.

Sure, I might have chosen an outfit, a vacation destination or even a boyfriend based on an impulse or romantic notion throughout the years but if something’s going to impact me for the rest of my life, I’m going to put some thought into it.

here here!!! in total agreement. Good luck with your decision.

CarrieMpls said:

PunkMistress said:

Lots of us probably should have.

I wish it was a decision more people put some actual thought into beyond "damn, fucking feels great without a condom!"

I don’t know how anyone makes major life decisions without carefully contemplating all the aspects.

Sure, I might have chosen an outfit, a vacation destination or even a boyfriend based on an impulse or romantic notion throughout the years but if something’s going to impact me for the rest of my life, I’m going to put some thought into it.

I didnt say dont put any thought into it... I said you are OVER thinking it... If you need to talk yourself into it, then dont do it... Maybe you just arent ready at this time in your life... Maybe in a year you will feel totally different! And if you dont, you dont...

JustErin said:

PunkMistress said:

You should never assume that just because you plan on being a great parent, your kid will turn out great.

Biological and genetic abnormalities happen, and some of them result in personality disorders that no amount of good parenting can reverse. It's obviously relatively rare, but totally within the realm of possibility.

Sure, genetic abnormalities can happen but as you said they are rare.

I still stand by shitty parents raise shitty kids, good parents raise good kids. People will do anything to take the responsibility off themselves and saying a kid was born bad is the excuse that many, many bad parents use.

Like Carrie said, the awesome people she knows have awesome kids....same with me. I don't know asshole kids because I'm not friends with asshole parents.

I'm surprised that there is no grey area on this with you. Only because you're very open minded about other stuff. I agree that a lot of folk try to shed responsibility, but there's honest-to-god good parents who also blame themselves unnecessarily for stuff when they've done all they could.

Besides, things like "good parent" and "asshole kids" are all relevant.
I'm sure a lot of folk out there think you and I are assholes.

[Edited 9/20/10 14:26pm]

PunkMistress said:

tinaz said:

but seriously, all Im saying is, did you analyze it that much, and if you didnt but thought you should have, can you say you regret what you did... Im gonna say no, so my point is, im not trying to say she should have kids because obviously she really doesnt them, what im saying is, sometimes people think to much... You either wanna share your life and devote it to children or you dont... you shouldnt have to talk yourself into it..

I got knocked up in high school, so it's fair to say I didn't analyze it too much.

I hear what you're saying, I really do. But I think in Carrie's case, there's a lot more at stake than just, "eh, I want 'em or I don't." She has spent years and years building exactly the life she wants, and I think it's extremely smart for her to think very carefully about how drastically she wants that life to change.

Also, this thread isn't about whether she should have a child - she isn't asking us to talk her into it. She's gathering information about the reality of having a kid so she can make a sensible decision, and in this thread she's just asking us to share some information with her - specifically, what makes it worth it for us.

And that's it exactly.

I want to make an informed decision. Either way it goes, I want to know (as much as is possible) what I'm giving up and what I'm gaining.

PunkMistress said:

tinaz said:

but seriously, all Im saying is, did you analyze it that much, and if you didnt but thought you should have, can you say you regret what you did... Im gonna say no, so my point is, im not trying to say she should have kids because obviously she really doesnt them, what im saying is, sometimes people think to much... You either wanna share your life and devote it to children or you dont... you shouldnt have to talk yourself into it..

I got knocked up in high school, so it's fair to say I didn't analyze it too much.

I hear what you're saying, I really do. But I think in Carrie's case, there's a lot more at stake than just, "eh, I want 'em or I don't." She has spent years and years building exactly the life she wants, and I think it's extremely smart for her to think very carefully about how drastically she wants that life to change.

Also, this thread isn't about whether she should have a child - she isn't asking us to talk her into it. She's gathering information about the reality of having a kid so she can make a sensible decision, and in this thread she's just asking us to share some information with her - specifically, what makes it worth it for us.

Gotcha!!

johnart said:

JustErin said:

Sure, genetic abnormalities can happen but as you said they are rare.

I still stand by shitty parents raise shitty kids, good parents raise good kids. People will do anything to take the responsibility off themselves and saying a kid was born bad is the excuse that many, many bad parents use.

Like Carrie said, the awesome people she knows have awesome kids....same with me. I don't know asshole kids because I'm not friends with asshole parents.

I'm surprised that there is no grey area on this with you. Only because you're very open minded about other stuff. I agree that a lot of folk try to shed responsibility, but there's honest-to-god good parents who also blame themselves unnecessarily for stuff when they've done all they could.

Besides, things like "good parent" and "asshole kids" are all relevant.
I'm sure a lot of folk out there think you and I are assholes.

[Edited 9/20/10 14:26pm]

feking never!!!! never entered my head at any time. No sir not at all.

blueblossom said:

johnart said:

I'm surprised that there is no grey area on this with you. Only because you're very open minded about other stuff. I agree that a lot of folk try to shed responsibility, but there's honest-to-god good parents who also blame themselves unnecessarily for stuff when they've done all they could.

Besides, things like "good parent" and "asshole kids" are all relevant.
I'm sure a lot of folk out there think you and I are assholes.

[Edited 9/20/10 14:26pm]

feking never!!!! never entered my head at any time. No sir not at all.

Mmm-hmmm

johnart said:

JustErin said:

Sure, genetic abnormalities can happen but as you said they are rare.

I still stand by shitty parents raise shitty kids, good parents raise good kids. People will do anything to take the responsibility off themselves and saying a kid was born bad is the excuse that many, many bad parents use.

Like Carrie said, the awesome people she knows have awesome kids....same with me. I don't know asshole kids because I'm not friends with asshole parents.

I'm surprised that there is no grey area on this with you. Only because you're very open minded about other stuff. I agree that a lot of folk try to shed responsibility, but there's honest-to-god good parents who also blame themselves unnecessarily for stuff when they've done all they could.

Besides, things like "good parent" and "asshole kids" are all relevant.
I'm sure a lot of folk out there think you and I are assholes.

Genesia said:

johnart said:

I'm surprised that there is no grey area on this with you. Only because you're very open minded about other stuff. I agree that a lot of folk try to shed responsibility, but there's honest-to-god good parents who also blame themselves unnecessarily for stuff when they've done all they could.

Besides, things like "good parent" and "asshole kids" are all relevant.
I'm sure a lot of folk out there think you and I are assholes.

Are you saying you think we are or are you joinin the Asshole Parade?

johnart said:

blueblossom said:

feking never!!!! never entered my head at any time. No sir not at all.

Mmm-hmmm

apologies English warped sense of humour

chocolate1 said:

I've said this before: I kept putting off having a baby, waiting for the "right guy" to have one with, putting my schooling and career first...

Then in 2008 it no longer became my choice- physically.

To me, being able to have a baby is the biggest blessing in the world. It hurts me very much that I will never give birth.

(and I am so tired of being told I can adopt. I know that. I'm talking about having my ability as a female animal to bear young taken away. )

me too, but I refuse to let my womanhood be defined by my lack of a uterus. I think you too would be an awesome mom!

And as a child of adoption, I definitely know that love is not defined by genetics. I think of my birth mother as more of a brood mare. It's that undefineable feeling of wanting to be a mother that is most important.

And I don't think you can ever overthink the decision to bring life onto this planet, that's what separates us from mice and rabbits....

and PM I see you stealing my word LOL! you and I definitely understand that whole ackrite nature vs nurture issue. Doesn't mean you love 'em any less

chocolate1 said:

I've said this before: I kept putting off having a baby, waiting for the "right guy" to have one with, putting my schooling and career first...

Then in 2008 it no longer became my choice- physically.

To me, being able to have a baby is the biggest blessing in the world. It hurts me very much that I will never give birth.

(and I am so tired of being told I can adopt. I know that. I'm talking about having my ability as a female animal to bear young taken away. )

May I ask what your thoughts about adoption are, though?

My wife and I have been blessed to have a biological child, but if we have another, we insist it be by adoption because we think there are so many children already in the world who need good parents.

Would you do it?

johnart said:

Genesia said:

Are you saying you think we are or are you joinin the Asshole Parade?

I am an asshole....but not an asshole parent.

JustErin said:

johnart said:

Are you saying you think we are or are you joinin the Asshole Parade?

I am an asshole....but not an asshole parent.

you are a very caring parent!

JustErin said:

johnart said:

Are you saying you think we are or are you joinin the Asshole Parade?

I am an asshole....but not an asshole parent.

I know this

I meant that going by the whole asshole parents make asshole children...nvmd. I'm getting a headache.

JustErin said:

johnart said:

Not true (across the board) at all.

My aunt was/is a wonderful mother. She's got some rotten ass kids. I shouldn't say that, they're my cousins, but they are. One aint talkin to me right now cuz I had to be truthful with him and the other...well...it's just way too out there to go into right now on this thread.

And my grandmother was an awful awful parent. Abusive, to the likes of "Mommy Dearest" no joke.

My mother turned out a wonderful giving woman and great parent.

And I know how she treated her. She treated me similarly to a degree.

[Edited 9/20/10 10:43am]

As wonderful as your aunt may be, if she allowed her children to be influenced by someone else to be rotten ass, she wasn't the best parent.

Kids are not born rotten, something makes them that way.

Yeah, but sometimes that "something" is physical/psychological. Parents may do the best they can, but it won't counteract how that child acts/turns out.

CarrieMpls said:

What makes it all worth it?

My bf and I are at a bit of a cross roads. He has made it clear to me he’d like to have a baby (someday). I have made it clear to him that that’s never been a goal of mine. So now we both have a lot to think about. I’m willing to reconsider my position (provided we’re still together and married down the road) as long as we can figure out how to have a baby and still accomplish our other life goals. But he’s also got to consider the possibility that it may never happen. I’m making no promises right now.

So tell me all about the advantages! I know all of the reasons I don’t want one as that’s all I’ve ever focused on my whole life. I want to hear about why it’s the greatest thing ever to be a parent.

i was never clucky, never wanted kids at all...

then i hit 28, and all i saw was pregnant ladies, and babies in prams...and lots of fam/friends were having babies...

it was time.

i love my son, he has his moments, especially now he is a pre-teen, but he is turning out to be a lovely young man, who has compassion for others...

i changed jobs when he was 14mths old, if i hadnt , i probably would have had another 1 or 2 kids, then "arty" hit, and i knew it wouldnt happen.

which in hindsight is probably a good thing, we can give our son more opportunities, which we no way could have afforded for more than one child (heck, can t afford it for this one )

chocolate1 said:

I've said this before: I kept putting off having a baby, waiting for the "right guy" to have one with, putting my schooling and career first...

Then in 2008 it no longer became my choice- physically.

To me, being able to have a baby is the biggest blessing in the world. It hurts me very much that I will never give birth.

(and I am so tired of being told I can adopt. I know that. I'm talking about having my ability as a female animal to bear young taken away. )

tinaz said:

CarrieMpls said:

Well, considering I didn’t want to get married until about 5 years ago, that was part of it. I wouldn’t have a child alone.

One of the biggest goals now that concerns me is we both want to open our own businesses, hopefully in the next few years. If we’re only taking care of ourselves and we both fail, that’s not fun, but it’s not as big a deal. I also worry about medical insurance… I feel like it’s all too much risk if you have someone else to take care of.

Another big one is travel. It’s one of my biggest passions in life and I worry about how to make that work, both financially and logistically with a child.

I dont understand why you think your life or dreams have to end just because you would have children?? Even if you couldnt travel for whatever reason life isnt over after the kids leave the house... Youd only be 55 years old in 20 years...

Honestly, you can't understand the concern? 20 years of NOT traveling and pursuing dreams is a killer for some people.

I'm am awesome person. My sons are awesome kids but my daughter is a holy fucking terror. I will not own that, period.

Carrie, consider every best case and worst case scenario when thinking of bringing a child into the world. My oldest son was born with developmental delays. My middle child has autism. I encourage everyone I know to explore how much children change your life and sometimes it's not for the better. Be 100% sure a child is what you want because the child will know if he or she is not wanted.

Being a mother these almost 23 years has been a hell of a ride but I wouldn't be who I am if it weren't for them. My kids have taught me patience, sacrifice and what it feels like to be willing to die for someone.

Good luck. I think you'd be an awesome mom.

Vendetta1 said:

I'm am awesome person. My sons are awesome kids but my daughter is a holy fucking terror. I will not own that, period.

Carrie, consider every best case and worst case scenario when thinking of bringing a child into the world. My oldest son was born with developmental delays. My middle child has autism. I encourage everyone I know to explore how much children change your life and sometimes it's not for the better. Be 100% sure a child is what you want because the child will know if he or she is not wanted.

Being a mother these almost 23 years has been a hell of a ride but I wouldn't be who I am if it weren't for them. My kids have taught me patience, sacrifice and what it feels like to be willing to die for someone.

Good luck. I think you'd be an awesome mom.

I love you.

I love you too and I'm counting the hours til I get to tell you face to face.

Vendetta1 said:

I love you too and I'm counting the hours til I get to tell you face to face.

Feel the love....

Did I mention that I CAN'T WAIT?!

chocolate1 said:

Vendetta1 said:

I love you too and I'm counting the hours til I get to tell you face to face.

Feel the love....

Did I mention that I CAN'T WAIT?!

we'll be jumping up and down together at Union Station.

Vendetta1 said:

chocolate1 said:

Feel the love....

Did I mention that I CAN'T WAIT?!

we'll be jumping up and down together at Union Station.

you guys!