206Michelle said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

rogifan, I very respectfully disagree...maybe that's too strong...but I have a slightly different perspective. To me, it's entirely possible that a lonely, isolated, genius dealing with social anxiety, trust issues and the burdon of being control freak with every aspect of his business realizes one day, after taking prescribed opiods for hip pain (post-surgery or not, perhaps for an acute injury) that that little pill not only eases his physical pain but dulls his anxiety, paranoia and the pain of loneliness.

MANY people get into opiods specifically because they ease emotional pain; a topic that is always greeted here with adament distain. Too bad, because all the fams here who claim there's a 'missing piece to the puzzle' or 'it's something else' refuse to even consider what's staring them in the face. The guy was a musical genius BUT did not cope very well with REAL LIFE. Why is that so hard for people here to see?

[Edited 3/27/18 12:42pm]

I think that possibility of emotional pain absolutely must be a part of the conversation. I've written about the possibility of emotional pain before, and I'm not the only one who feels it may have played a role in Prince's death. This issue of emotional pain arose on the following thread: Where Did It All Turn for Prince, http://prince.org/msg/7/430382. I shared the following on that thread (reply 238, edited for length and spelling of Amiir's name):

.

I think it is fair to ask if Prince was also dealing with a lot of emotional pain. He also dealt with a lot of trauma in his life.

* He dealt with abandonment issues in childhood.

* His son died as an infant, he and Mayte suffered a miscarriage, and Prince never had any other children.

* He went through the divorce with Mani in 2006 that he did not want.

* His parents died in the early 2000s.

* A couple of his siblings died, I think in the last 10 years.

* His contemporaries MJ and Whitney died in the last 7 years.

* Denise (Vanity) died in 2016.

I hesitate to bring up this subject because it is so touchy, but I think that it did have an impact on him even later in life. Prince clearly wanted children, and I think that if a person wants children, that desire doesn't go away until it is satisfied. Prince was SO looking forward to having a family in his late 30s, but because he and Mayte lost 2 babies, in his 50s, he had this huge musical legacy and millions of fans, but no children. I think people don't want to talk about this because it is such a sad subject, but it just makes so much sense that the pain of losing a child still had an impact on him into his late 50s.

--

I share these stories [about people I know who lost children and the impact of the losses on them] because I don't think that the pain of losing a child just goes away. Even with grief counseling, it stays with the person. There is even a scientific research study called Long-Term Effects of the Death of a Child on Parents’ Adjustment in Midlife (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2841012/). The study's abstract says the following: "The death of a child is a traumatic event that can have long-term effects on the lives of parents. This study examined bereaved parents of deceased children (infancy to age 34) and comparison parents with similar backgrounds (n = 428 per group) identified in the Wisconsin Longitudinal Study. An average of 18.05 years following the death, when parents were age 53, bereaved parents reported more depressive symptoms, poorer well-being, and more health problems and were more likely to have experienced a depressive episode and marital disruption than were comparison parents. Recovery from grief was associated with having a sense of life purpose and having additional children but was unrelated to the cause of death or the amount of time since the death."

--

I think that just like the physical pain caught up with Prince, so did the emotional pain from all of the traumas he experienced, especially the loss of [Amiir].

Especially if he never talked about it.

ThatWhiteDude said:

206Michelle said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

rogifan, I very respectfully disagree...maybe that's too strong...but I have a slightly different perspective. To me, it's entirely possible that a lonely, isolated, genius dealing with social anxiety, trust issues and the burdon of being control freak with every aspect of his business realizes one day, after taking prescribed opiods for hip pain (post-surgery or not, perhaps for an acute injury) that that little pill not only eases his physical pain but dulls his anxiety, paranoia and the pain of loneliness.

MANY people get into opiods specifically because they ease emotional pain; a topic that is always greeted here with adament distain. Too bad, because all the fams here who claim there's a 'missing piece to the puzzle' or 'it's something else' refuse to even consider what's staring them in the face. The guy was a musical genius BUT did not cope very well with REAL LIFE. Why is that so hard for people here to see?

[Edited 3/27/18 12:42pm]

To further elaborate on the issue of emotional pain, when watching Prince's interview with Arsenio Hall in 2014 (which, as far as I know, is Prince's last television interview), it is clear that the loss of Amiir still affected Prince at the end of his life. There is a discussion about this situation starting on page 7 of the thread Mayte Garcia (and Prince) Appreciation thread (currently active): http://prince.org/msg/5/452536. I'll post two of my replies below from that thread.

.

Here is the video; the portion of where Arsenio mentions his son starts at 9:00.

.

[206Michelle, reply 194, responding to Rainbow1]

"I just watched the 2014 interview Prince did with Arsenio again so that I could see the moment of which you speak, where Prince reacts to Arsenio mentioning having a son. I have watched this interview before and didn't really pay attention to P's reaction when Arsenio mentions having a son. (Who knows if I was even watching closely when I previously watched this interview; sometimes I just listen to interviews on video in the background. Sometimes, it can be hard to watch videos of Prince talking because he's gone now.)

.

Anyway, it's easy to overlook P's reaction because it is subtle, but after watching specifically for his reaction, it is definitely there. (Arsenio mentions having a son at 9:00 in the video here: https://www.youtube.com/w...hHwTLZpE). Prince had just gotten up out of his seat and walked in a humorous way, like "I'm about to leave if you keep talking about this after-hours party from years ago". Then, Arsenio mentions having a son, and I see Prince has a change in demeanor. (I always fear that I'm reading too much into a person's emotions when I'm looking for them like I was when watching for this moment in the video.) Prince waits a few seconds, then says "Congratulations," but he says it in a very flat, brief, and polite manner; there's no emotion to the "Congratulations" at all. Also, Prince doesn't ask for any additional information about Arsenio's son (e.g., what his name is, how old he is). Now of course, he's the one being interviewed (the interviewee), but I would expect the interviewee to show more emotion or ask for a little bit of information about the interviewer's child, like "Congratulations! How old is he? What's his name?" Arsenio's show was on late-night television, so the interviews are more of a conversation, if you will, than on a show like 60 Minutes.

.

Prince wipes his nose at 9:05. He also wiped his nose again at 9:39. I went back and looked to see if he touched his face like that before the moment Arsenio mentions his own son. He did not wipe his nose at all prior to Arsenio mentioning his own son, only after Arsenio mentions having a son. I also notice at 9:42-43, Prince bites his lip, which is the first time I saw that occur in the interview. Then, look at the way he reacts at 9:44 when Arsenio says "good times"; he nods quickly in an almost "let's keep it moving" kind of way. Then, at 9:54, Prince very briefly exhibits a really sad look on his face as the camera pans across the set and Arsenio is saying that they're going to take a commercial break.

.

Overall, Prince plays off his emotions well. The reaction to Arsenio talking about his own son was subtle, and for a casual viewer, it is easy to miss the change in Prince's demeanor. I don't want to sound like I'm seeing things in that situation that weren't there, but it was clear to me from the way that Prince reacted to Arsenio mentioning his son, that the loss of his son still affected him in 2014, all those years later."

.....

[206Michelle, reply 204, responding to pinkcashmere23]

"I agree that the Prince's congratulation was definitely sincere.

.

In my opinion, Prince was communicating two things with "Congratulations": (1) a sincere congratulations and (2) setting a boundary for conversation. First, Prince was sincere and intentional about saying the congratulations because he doesn't say "Congratulations" immediately, he waits a few seconds before giving it. However, and secondly, it appears to me that Prince says "Congratulations" in a terse and emotionally flat manner in order to set a conversational boundary with Arsenio, something to the effect of, "Arsenio, it's cool that you have a son, but we need to move on to another topic because you know that my only son died, so it's a painful topic for me.

.

Furthermore, I believe that this 2014 interview with Arsenio is significant in that it is the only interview in the last 5 years of P's life that I recall watching during which the topic of conversation appears to trigger Prince's memory of his son. Prince's reaction to Arsenio mentioning his own son, in 2014, made it clear to me that Prince continued to be affected by the loss of his son 17+ years after his son's death in 1996. (Prince continuing to be affected by the loss of his son is also consistent with the experiences of other parents who have lost their children.)

.

To tie this situation from the Arsenio Hall interview back to the theme of this thread, Prince's reaction after Arsenio mentions his own son appears to be consistent with what Mayte says in her book about the effect of Amiir's death on . To paraphrase what Mayte writes at the end of chapter nine of The Most Beautiful, she wrote that she cannot describe what the experience of losing their son was like for . However, what she observed is that, like a skydiver who unexpectedly crashes to the earth, was never the same after the death of their son."

.....

Not saying that Prince wouldn't reflect on the death of his son from time to time because I'm sure he was deeply affected, but I think you're reading too much into the Arsenio interview.

ThatWhiteDude said:

voph said:

Apollonia was talking to Prince. Prince had nothing to do with crazy Mayte Garcia who claims someone gave her second hand information about Prince as she is selling her tell all book about Prince. I’m with Apollonia. Prince was killed. Prince had conversations with Apollonia about his future projects and plans. Mayte Garcia in the words of Evelyn from basketball wives was a Non Mother Fu**king factor. [Edited 3/27/18 19:19pm] [Edited 3/27/18 19:20pm]

Why are you attacking Mayte?

Because they blame Mayte for everything. They are all nutso.

voph said:

PennyPurple said:

Because they blame Mayte for everything. They are all nutso.

Nope. Not blaming her for nothing but I’m sick of her using Prince’s death to sell her tell all book which we know of Prince was alive his lawyers would have blocked her book. Remember Prince had a bonfire with her belongings. She really did piss Prince off. He never did that with Vanity or Manuela. They both left him. Prince dumped Mayte.

Excuse me, he bull dozed Mani's house, and was happy when he did it.

ThatWhiteDude said:

voph said:

Apollonia was talking to Prince. Prince had nothing to do with crazy Mayte Garcia who claims someone gave her second hand information about Prince as she is selling her tell all book about Prince. I’m with Apollonia. Prince was killed. Prince had conversations with Apollonia about his future projects and plans. Mayte Garcia in the words of Evelyn from basketball wives was a Non Mother Fu**king factor. [Edited 3/27/18 19:19pm] [Edited 3/27/18 19:20pm]

Why are you attacking Mayte?

Because they blame Mayte for everything. They are all nutso.

Vashtix said:

Prince death has nothing to do with M1, M2 or Apples. Prince is the one who decided to take the pills.

He took a big dose so let me be the one to say it- IF he did not know it was fentanyl he still took enough pills for it to be an overdose.

I just don't understand why people do not see this.

voph said:

purplegirl00 said:

I just don't understand why people do not see this.

Nope. I just don’t understand why people don’t see that one pill that Prince took killed him due to someone in his inner circle could have tampered with his medication and wanted him dead and who says it was a pill. Prince was Murdered.

So you are saying someone shoved a pill down his throat? Well then why hasn't someone been arrested? Why is Apollonia making this claim and not going to the cops and instead taking to social media with cryptic crap? Not buying it. What would be the motive to kill Prince?

I agree purplegirl. This was 18 years after Amiir's death. Not that he'd be "over it," but he'd have becoming accustomed by then to other people mentioning that they have a child, especially while on TV. I mean, this was a guy who went on Oprah days after his baby's death.

purplegirl00 said:

206Michelle said:

To further elaborate on the issue of emotional pain, when watching Prince's interview with Arsenio Hall in 2014 (which, as far as I know, is Prince's last television interview), it is clear that the loss of Amiir still affected Prince at the end of his life. There is a discussion about this situation starting on page 7 of the thread Mayte Garcia (and Prince) Appreciation thread (currently active): http://prince.org/msg/5/452536. I'll post two of my replies below from that thread.

.

Not saying that Prince wouldn't reflect on the death of his son from time to time because I'm sure he was deeply affected, but I think you're reading too much into the Arsenio interview.

[Edited 3/27/18 19:29pm]

Vashtix said:

Prince death has nothing to do with M1, M2 or Apples. Prince is the one who decided to take the pills.

He took a big dose so let me be the one to say it- IF he did not know it was fentanyl he still took enough pills for it to be an overdose.

I just don't understand why people do not see this.

disch said: