What about Robin people?

One of the things I did appreciate about The Dark Knight Rises is that we got a glimpse of Robin. Are we ever gonna get some more Robin?

Is he away at college?


eta, I just read that Robin is supposed to be dead in this story.

[Edited 4/5/16 18:43pm]

What do we think of the new Batmobile? C'mon y'all, I'm giving you plenty to discuss,

So who is the dead Robin? Dick Grayson or Jason Todd?

babynoz said:

What about Robin people?

One of the things I did appreciate about The Dark Knight Rises is that we got a glimpse of Robin. Are we ever gonna get some more Robin?

Is he away at college?


eta, I just read that Robin is supposed to be dead in this story.

[Edited 4/5/16 18:43pm]

For me there is only one Robin and that is Dick Grayson, fuck all the wannabees after

kpowers said:

babynoz said:

What about Robin people?

One of the things I did appreciate about The Dark Knight Rises is that we got a glimpse of Robin. Are we ever gonna get some more Robin?

Is he away at college?


eta, I just read that Robin is supposed to be dead in this story.

[Edited 4/5/16 18:43pm]

For me there is only one Robin and that is Dick Grayson, fuck all the wannabees after

I know, right? I was not amused at all to read all that silliness about other Robins.

babynoz said:

kpowers said:

For me there is only one Robin and that is Dick Grayson, fuck all the wannabees after

I know, right? I was not amused at all to read all that silliness about other Robins.

The lame robins

babynoz said:

babynoz said:

Before the movie came out there was buzz that there would be a female Robin in it (like in The Dark Knight Returns). Maybe the character will appear in the next one.

novabrkr said:

Before the movie came out there was buzz that there would be a female Robin in it (like in The Dark Knight Returns). Maybe the character will appear in the next one.

novabrkr said:

EmmaMcG said:

novabrkr said:

Before the movie came out there was buzz that there would be a female Robin in it (like in The Dark Knight Returns). Maybe the character will appear in the next one.

I don't think the Robin character fits into their plans for the Justice League. Same with Jimmy Olsen, which is why they killed them off early, I think.

Agreed

TheBatman said:

As a life long Fan of both Superman and Batman... the way these characters are portrayed in these movies are above and beyond anything ever attempted before. So I will continue to appreciate their greatness. Henry Cavill IS the Superman I always read about in the comics. Ben Affleck IS the Batman I always read about in the comics. No attempt in the past, to bring these characters to real life has ever come close. Except possibly, the Nolan Trilogy.

[Edited 4/5/16 14:08pm]

Agree with everything you said except for Ben Affleck. His portrayal of the Dark Knight was very good, but I like Bale's better.

JediMaster said:

"Zach Snyder" and "Genius" should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

We critcize him for ignoring the source material, and making these characters unrecognizable. It's fine to do something new with it, but at a certain point he deviated from the characters so much that they were no longer the ones we love.

And I'll also disagree that Man of Steel was an "incredible Superman movie". Sorry, but Superman should never be a broody, destructive douche-bag. That isn't Superman. Hell, I'd argue neither of these are good MOVIES, period! Outside of the way they treated the characters, even if these weren't Batman and Superman, I'd be noticing the giant plot holes, lack of motivation for the characters, bad CGI and the annoying villains. Snyder has proven he's little more than a second-rate Michael Bay.

Snyder is a genius cinematographer and visual storyteller, there is simply no possible debate about that.

Now he's not much of a screenwriter (as proven by Sucker Punch) and directors shouldn't take the blame for the writer's job. Snyder didn't writer neither MoS nor BvS.

Snyder gave us Dawn of the dead, 300 and most of all Watchmen. For those 3 films alone I'll worship the guy forever no matter what he does next.

TheBatman said:

databank said:

the fact that the heroes gathering planned for JLA seemed a bit rushed (Batman has never been much of a team player and now he is the one who wants to create a team?)

Here is where Zack's genius needs to be appreciated. How many comics, cartoons, animated movies, live action TV and movies have we seen with this version of Batman??? I've seen it over and over for what seems like a zillion times, and now people criticize Zack for taking a new and completely different approach??? Wow.

JJ ABrams totally rehashed/copied Star Wars Episode IV, called it Force Awakens, and no one said a damn word about it. Critics loved it, fans loved it and it was the same ol' $h!t in a different year.

MoS and BvS:DoJ need to be appreciated like an "Elseworlds Comic," a different retelling of a long history of comic books, using these familiar characters, as well as new stories that stretch them to new heights and limits.

Man of Steel was an incredible Superman movie. Henry Cavill is the physical incarnate of this cartoon character, and both he and Ben knocked it out of the park in BvS, just as I expected they would!!!

I don't mind changing the characters a bit, movies always do that by nature. I was just expressing surprise and certain doubts about how cohesive the character treatment will be in the future. In some JLA comics, particularly the Giffen/DeMatteis era, Bats took certain responsibilities as the guy making sure the JLA was a functional unit, so it's not entirely unlike him. I just didn't expect him to be the guy to make the first call, and as for the visions if they are eventually explained I'm fine with that.

I hated MoS certainly not because of the changes done to the character (I don't mind darker) but because I found it too much of a rehash of the Donner/Lester movies, as well as slow, boring, terribly lacking characters' development and poor in plot.

I was totally pissed by the way SW7 was nothing but a reheash of ANH. And while I found Snyder to be incredibly faithful to the source material with Watchmen, I was amazed at the little change to the ending, that IMHO achieves the impossible, i.e. adding an improvement to Moore's masterpiece (looping the loop by replacing the fake alien monster by a fake Dr. M. attack).

TheBatman said:

I'm not on his payroll, so no harm no foul. Are his movies perfect? No, but who else has made a worthy Superman film? No one. I respect the old Christopher Reeve movies, but his Superman was quite weak in comparison.

To date, no one has made a truly great Superman film, I agree. Where I disagree is that Reeve was weak by comparison. Reeve played the Silver age Superman to perfection. Cavill isn't playing any version of Superman from any previous comic or animated incarnation. To date, I've yet to read a comic with a Superman who mopes around, doubting himself while his parents tell him he probably shouldn't try to help people. In fact, that's pretty much the EXACT opposite of almost every version of Superman throughout the character's history. The John Byrne version, post-Crisis, had him doubting what he should do with his abilities at first, but he was encouraged and built up by his adopted parents.

As a life long Fan of both Superman and Batman... the way these characters are portrayed in these movies are above and beyond anything ever attempted before. So I will continue to appreciate their greatness. Henry Cavill IS the Superman I always read about in the comics. Ben Affleck IS the Batman I always read about in the comics. No attempt in the past, to bring these characters to real life has ever come close. Except possibly, the Nolan Trilogy.

Well, I'm a life-long fan as well. I received my first Batman comic at the age of three or four, long before I could read. I've studied the history of both the DC and Marvel Universes in-depth, even writing college papers on these heroes. Batman, in particular, is one I know quite well, and I can tell you that I NEVER have read a story where he went around gunning down folks with machine guns, blowing them up with missles or tried to kill a hero he viewed as a threat. Batman is all about neutralizing his opponents in the quickest way possible, with no loss of life. He's been that way since the 1940's, from Batman #2 on. Even the more brutal version in Miller's Dark Knight Returns wasn't the bloodthirsty murderer of the Snyder film. Now, I don't blame Affleck for this. I think he did the best job he could with a gawd-awful script. He tried his best to rein in the material, and make is somewhat resemble the comics Batman. I'd love to see him in a decent Batman film, I truly would.

Likewise, Cavill's Superman is far more willing to take life than Superman in any of his comic incarnations. Snapping Zod's neck wasn't just out-of-character, it was something that his comic counterpart would have found a way out of without bloodshed (heck, why didn't he just grab him and fly out of there?). This brings up another issue I have: in Snyder's films, Batman and Superman are neither one depicted as being very intelligent. Batman in the comics has a plan in place to neutralize Superman without killing him, but here he just plans on outright murdering him. Superman could have given the spear to Wonder Woman to use on Doomsday, but instead plays martyr. Dumb.

I don't see Superman at all as you've described in these movies.

Really? He MOPES around CONSTANTLY in both films! He mopes in Kansas, He mopes with Lois, He mopes when the Capitol building is blown up, rather than stay and help put out the fire. He mopes with his mom and his dead dad, and they tell him he probably shouldn't do the hero thing. He has no problem battling Zod while buildings fall around killing everyone, instead of forcing Zod into space or out of populated areas. He's a mopey douche who constantly doubts himself, and he probably should, since he's awful at the whole hero thing.

By comparison, the Superman of the comics had some doubts about how to use his abilities during Byrne's reboot in the 80's. In that version, the Kents enoucraged him and told him he SHOULD use his powers to help his fellow man. The Superman of the Snyder films isn't half as heroic as his counterparts in comics, animation or TV.

The few bad things I can say about BvS is: Jesse Eisenberg (even though he is a better Luthor than Hackman & Spacey combined), was really miscast here. He did not portray the Luthor of the comics, nor the animated series. Mercy Graves was also a wasted character. No where near as bad-ass as she should be.

While I'm not big on Hackman or Spacey's portrayls, I can blame those squarely on the scripts they were given. Those scripts called for Luthor to be played as a buffoon...which is inexcusable. Eisenberg, on the other hand, created that version of Luthor...he chose to play him as a coked-out, spoiled rich kid with daddy issues. In my opinion, he was the single worst screen villain in the history of comic movies. He's the cocaine-fueled love child of Jar Jar and Jim Carrey's Riddler.

databank said:

TheBatman said:

Here is where Zack's genius needs to be appreciated. How many comics, cartoons, animated movies, live action TV and movies have we seen with this version of Batman??? I've seen it over and over for what seems like a zillion times, and now people criticize Zack for taking a new and completely different approach??? Wow.

JJ ABrams totally rehashed/copied Star Wars Episode IV, called it Force Awakens, and no one said a damn word about it. Critics loved it, fans loved it and it was the same ol' $h!t in a different year.

MoS and BvS:DoJ need to be appreciated like an "Elseworlds Comic," a different retelling of a long history of comic books, using these familiar characters, as well as new stories that stretch them to new heights and limits.

Man of Steel was an incredible Superman movie. Henry Cavill is the physical incarnate of this cartoon character, and both he and Ben knocked it out of the park in BvS, just as I expected they would!!!

I don't mind changing the characters a bit, movies always do that by nature. I was just expressing surprise and certain doubts about how cohesive the character treatment will be in the future. In some JLA comics, particularly the Giffen/DeMatteis era, Bats took certain responsibilities as the guy making sure the JLA was a functional unit, so it's not entirely unlike him. I just didn't expect him to be the guy to make the first call, and as for the visions if they are eventually explained I'm fine with that.

I hated MoS certainly not because of the changes done to the character (I don't mind darker) but because I found it too much of a rehash of the Donner/Lester movies, as well as slow, boring, terribly lacking characters' development and poor in plot.

I was totally pissed by the way SW7 was nothing but a reheash of ANH. And while I found Snyder to be incredibly faithful to the source material with Watchmen, I was amazed at the little change to the ending, that IMHO achieves the impossible, i.e. adding an improvement to Moore's masterpiece (looping the loop by replacing the fake alien monster by a fake Dr. M. attack).

For the most part I can go with the flow but when they veer too far from the source I get testy.

Going forward it seems we can look forward to a hot mess as far as the comics are concerned anyway.....

http://comicbook.com/2015...lly-canon/

databank said:

JediMaster said:

"Zach Snyder" and "Genius" should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

We critcize him for ignoring the source material, and making these characters unrecognizable. It's fine to do something new with it, but at a certain point he deviated from the characters so much that they were no longer the ones we love.

And I'll also disagree that Man of Steel was an "incredible Superman movie". Sorry, but Superman should never be a broody, destructive douche-bag. That isn't Superman. Hell, I'd argue neither of these are good MOVIES, period! Outside of the way they treated the characters, even if these weren't Batman and Superman, I'd be noticing the giant plot holes, lack of motivation for the characters, bad CGI and the annoying villains. Snyder has proven he's little more than a second-rate Michael Bay.

Snyder is a genius cinematographer and visual storyteller, there is simply no possible debate about that.

Now he's not much of a screenwriter (as proven by Sucker Punch) and directors shouldn't take the blame for the writer's job. Snyder didn't writer neither MoS nor BvS.

Snyder gave us Dawn of the dead, 300 and most of all Watchmen. For those 3 films alone I'll worship the guy forever no matter what he does next.

I'd say he's very good on visuals, very lacking in the "storytelling" department. His movies all look quite good, but they're all over the place in terms of substance. This is why I compare him to Bay, who is also all about style with a complete disregard for anything resembling substance.

I disagree that the director shouldn't take responsibility for bad writing, as it is the director's JOB to shape the script into a decent film. He has enough clout in Hollywood that he could have rejected the awful script for BvS, or at least ordered rewrites. He's admitted that crap like casting Eisenberg instead of Cranston (who was originally brought in by the studio for Luthor), having Batman use guns and having Superman be plagued with angst were all HIS ideas. Heck, he said the reason he didn't want to use the TV version of The Flash was because it wasn't "dark enough", when Flash isn't supposed to be "dark" at all! Heck, NONE of the Justice League are supposed to be, with the exception of Batman! He proves, time and again, that he doesn't understand these characters at all.

You cite DotD, 300 & Watchmen...all very angsty, dark films. Obviously, he cannot see beyond that. Maybe he should be directing the Spawn reboot instead, and stay away from characters who are a bit more complex than that.

uPtoWnNY said:

TheBatman said:

As a life long Fan of both Superman and Batman... the way these characters are portrayed in these movies are above and beyond anything ever attempted before. So I will continue to appreciate their greatness. Henry Cavill IS the Superman I always read about in the comics. Ben Affleck IS the Batman I always read about in the comics. No attempt in the past, to bring these characters to real life has ever come close. Except possibly, the Nolan Trilogy.

[Edited 4/5/16 14:08pm]

Agree with everything you said except for Ben Affleck. His portrayal of the Dark Knight was very good, but I like Bale's better.

Can't go that far. Reeve remains the definitive onscreen Superman and his portrayal is very consistent with the source material of the time.

I think Affleck's Batman is on a different plane from Bale's. Bale's (and Keaton's) Batman has no other superheroes or aliens to contend with. So his performance was going to be more grounded (literally) than Affleck's.

namepeace said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Agree with everything you said except for Ben Affleck. His portrayal of the Dark Knight was very good, but I like Bale's better.

Can't go that far. Reeve remains the definitive onscreen Superman and his portrayal is very consistent with the source material of the time.

I think Affleck's Batman is on a different plane from Bale's. Bale's (and Keaton's) Batman has no other superheroes or aliens to contend with. So his performance was going to be more grounded (literally) than Affleck's.

Good points.

What do you think of DC apparently throwing canon out of the window for the most part by declaring that almost everything is canon now? If that's the case then we can't entirely blame the movie makers for playing fast and loose with the story lines, can we?

What's a fan to do going forward?

I just realized that I didn't see Batman and Robin, which starred George Clooney...I wonder why I missed it?

I'm a bad fan, I'm gonna see if it's on Amazon on demand.

babynoz said:

namepeace said:

Can't go that far. Reeve remains the definitive onscreen Superman and his portrayal is very consistent with the source material of the time.

I think Affleck's Batman is on a different plane from Bale's. Bale's (and Keaton's) Batman has no other superheroes or aliens to contend with. So his performance was going to be more grounded (literally) than Affleck's.

Good points.

What do you think of DC apparently throwing canon out of the window for the most part by declaring that almost everything is canon now? If that's the case then we can't entirely blame the movie makers for playing fast and loose with the story lines, can we?

What's a fan to do going forward?

Unlike Marvel or even Star Wars, who both carefully developed their universes on screen and paper for decades, DC and/or WB are throwing together a film universe on the fly after dragging their feet for years.

Slapping the "canon" label on everything is a shortcut to catch up. But now, the initial thrill of seeing DCs' biggest heroes finally sharing the screen is gone and the holes are becoming evident.

namepeace said:

babynoz said:

Good points.

What do you think of DC apparently throwing canon out of the window for the most part by declaring that almost everything is canon now? If that's the case then we can't entirely blame the movie makers for playing fast and loose with the story lines, can we?

What's a fan to do going forward?

Unlike Marvel or even Star Wars, who both carefully developed their universes on screen and paper for decades, DC and/or WB are throwing together a film universe on the fly after dragging their feet for years.

Slapping the "canon" label on everything is a shortcut to catch up. But now, the initial thrill of seeing DCs' biggest heroes finally sharing the screen is gone and the holes are becoming evident.

Dam at this point I really don't care I just want to see a freakin' JLA movie before I die

[Edited 4/6/16 13:10pm]

babynoz said:

I just realized that I didn't see Batman and Robin, which starred George Clooney...I wonder why I missed it?

I'm a bad fan, I'm gonna see if it's on Amazon on demand.

You didn't miss anything. Batman & Robin is the worst movie I've ever seen...period. I'm not just talking Batman film or superhero film...I mean at all! Clooney himself said he thought the film was awful, apologized to fans and promised to never do another comic film! Yeah, it's THAT bad!!

While I didn't care for BvS, it's freakin' Shakespeare compared to the turd sandwhich that is Batman & Robin!!

kpowers said:

Dam at this point I really don't care I just want to see a freakin' JLA movie before I die

[Edited 4/6/16 13:10pm]

Me too. I enjoyed BvS.

namepeace said:

babynoz said:

Good points.

What do you think of DC apparently throwing canon out of the window for the most part by declaring that almost everything is canon now? If that's the case then we can't entirely blame the movie makers for playing fast and loose with the story lines, can we?

What's a fan to do going forward?

Unlike Marvel or even Star Wars, who both carefully developed their universes on screen and paper for decades, DC and/or WB are throwing together a film universe on the fly after dragging their feet for years.

Slapping the "canon" label on everything is a shortcut to catch up. But now, the initial thrill of seeing DCs' biggest heroes finally sharing the screen is gone and the holes are becoming evident.

I'm afraid you're right bro....we just SOL then.

kpowers said:

namepeace said:

Unlike Marvel or even Star Wars, who both carefully developed their universes on screen and paper for decades, DC and/or WB are throwing together a film universe on the fly after dragging their feet for years.

Slapping the "canon" label on everything is a shortcut to catch up. But now, the initial thrill of seeing DCs' biggest heroes finally sharing the screen is gone and the holes are becoming evident.

Dam at this point I really don't care I just want to see a freakin' JLA movie before I die

[Edited 4/6/16 13:10pm]

JediMaster said:

babynoz said:

I just realized that I didn't see Batman and Robin, which starred George Clooney...I wonder why I missed it?

I'm a bad fan, I'm gonna see if it's on Amazon on demand.

You didn't miss anything. Batman & Robin is the worst movie I've ever seen...period. I'm not just talking Batman film or superhero film...I mean at all! Clooney himself said he thought the film was awful, apologized to fans and promised to never do another comic film! Yeah, it's THAT bad!!

While I didn't care for BvS, it's freakin' Shakespeare compared to the turd sandwhich that is Batman & Robin!!

Oh my damn, he apologized?

babynoz said:

namepeace said:

Can't go that far. Reeve remains the definitive onscreen Superman and his portrayal is very consistent with the source material of the time.

I think Affleck's Batman is on a different plane from Bale's. Bale's (and Keaton's) Batman has no other superheroes or aliens to contend with. So his performance was going to be more grounded (literally) than Affleck's.

Good points.

What do you think of DC apparently throwing canon out of the window for the most part by declaring that almost everything is canon now? If that's the case then we can't entirely blame the movie makers for playing fast and loose with the story lines, can we?

What's a fan to do going forward?

That was from over a year ago, and the author of that article really missed the point of what DC was doing at the time. They weren't saying "everything is canon", but rather that all of the various incarnations of the DC Universe had existed at one point in the multiverse. The (truly awful) Convergence storyline showed that there was a version of Brainiac that was collecting pieces from each destroyed universe. DC is about to do a storyline called "Rebirth", that many believe will show the different DC Universes interacting with each other in much the same way that the pre-Crisis continuity used to feature Earth One and Earth Two having a yearly crossover.

The Flash TV series is playing around with this concept now, establishing that all the old DC series like the 90's Flash and Smallville exist in parallel universes (as well as the current Supergirl show).

For me, it isn't so much about them playing "fast and loose" with storylines. It's a movie, and I know they can't make it 100% like the comics. Different mediums means that stories will play differently, and have to be adjusted accordingly. Where I get disgruntled is when they change the core of who these characters are supposed to be. Sure, there are established universes in the DC Multiverse that feature deviations, like the "Red Rain" universe where Batman is a vampire, but those iterations are specifically designed to contrast with the core tenants of the characters as they are known. This is supposed to be the DC Cinematic Universe being built here, and the fact that they chose to make these characters so different from their comic counterparts is what is sad. I want to see BATMAN on the big screen alongside SUPERMAN. I don't want to see gun crazy thug in a bat costume teeming up with emo guy in a superman costume.

babynoz said:

JediMaster said:

You didn't miss anything. Batman & Robin is the worst movie I've ever seen...period. I'm not just talking Batman film or superhero film...I mean at all! Clooney himself said he thought the film was awful, apologized to fans and promised to never do another comic film! Yeah, it's THAT bad!!

While I didn't care for BvS, it's freakin' Shakespeare compared to the turd sandwhich that is Batman & Robin!!

Oh my damn, he apologized?

Yeah...he apparently was stunned at how bad it was when he saw the finished film! It's like they tried to make it campy like the 60's series, but it's utterly devoid of the goofy humor and charm of that show. Instead, it's one bad joke after another, with action sequences that will have you cringing! Imagine a film with Arnold Swarzenegger running around making ice puns, while Batman and Robin click their heels together to reveal ice skates! No...I'm not making that up! Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy is an over-the-top, scenery chewing villain from the cheapest cartoon you can imagine (she actually yells out "curses" at one point!).

Now, understand...I love me some goofball, bad movies. There are plenty that qualify as "so bad they're good", but B&R isn't like that. It's just painful to watch, all the way through! They should show this movie to prisoners at Gitmo...those terrorists would be giving up their collaborators in a heartbeat!