babynoz said:

Okay, so I'm ten minutes into George Clooney Batman.....

Y'know, since I was warned I really have no business complaining. I know I brought this on myself but nobody I mean, nobody deserves this.

Worst film in the history of cinema.

I warned you, if you wanna see a good Batman movie with good acting and story watch Mask of the Phantasm if you haven't already

JediMaster said:

breakdown2k14 said:

Is "batman-animated series season 4" really that good ? Didn't they change the animation by the season 4 came around? I think I stopped watching cuz Robin looked like a little kid [Edited 4/8/16 22:10pm]

Yes, it is. The animation style changed somewhat, but that was a deliberate choice. The idea was to show that it was over a year later, and that things had changed in Gotham. The reason Robin looks like a "little kid" is because he IS. Dick Grayson, the Robin from the first three seasons, has left to become Nightwing (who also shows up in this season). The new Robin is Tim Drake, who is much younger.

Tim Drake sucks kill off all the Robins except Dick Grayson

kpowers said:

babynoz said:

Okay, so I'm ten minutes into George Clooney Batman.....

Y'know, since I was warned I really have no business complaining. I know I brought this on myself but nobody I mean, nobody deserves this.

Worst film in the history of cinema.

I warned you, if you wanna see a good Batman movie with good acting and story watch Mask of the Phantasm if you haven't already

I did see Mask Of The Phatasm. I should watch again just to get that awful Clooney movie out of my head. I have new reasons to detest Swartzenegger too.

I need my ass kicked for being hard headed after I was warned.

babynoz said:

The animated Batman and Spider Man of the 90's were just great i loved them when i was a kid.

EmmaMcG said:

babynoz said:

I did see Mask Of The Phatasm. I should watch again just to get that awful Clooney movie out of my head. I have new reasons to detest Swartzenegger too.

I need my ass kicked for being hard headed after I was warned.

I love Schwarzenegger. LOVE him. But playing Mr. Freeze is not his finest hour. And as bad as he is in Batman & Robin, he's like Marlon Brando when compared to Uma Thurman. Everything about the Joel Schumacher Batman movies is wrong. He took Tim Burton's Frank Miller inspired Batman revival and brought it back to the dark days of Adam West. I still believe that if Tim Burton wasn't coming back to do the third movie, Paul Dini and Bruce Timm should have been brought in.

I have to agree about Uma Thurman, she was absolutely wreched and should be throttled.

This was worse than the TV series from the sixties. At least that had some campy charm.

kpowers said:

breakdown2k14 said:

kpowers said:

I warned you, if you wanna see a good Batman movie with good acting and story watch Mask of the Phantasm if you haven't already

what's your opinion of "Batman-Subzero"?[img:$uid]http://www.4freeimagehost.com/resized/9f090e30e054.jpg[/img:$uid][/url] I haven't seen it since I was a kid but suppose to be receiving it from amazon tomorrow . [Edited 4/11/16 15:34pm]

"Batman-Subzero" was OK, felt more like a regular episode.

babynoz said:

kpowers said:

I warned you, if you wanna see a good Batman movie with good acting and story watch Mask of the Phantasm if you haven't already

I did see Mask Of The Phatasm. I should watch again just to get that awful Clooney movie out of my head. I have new reasons to detest Swartzenegger too.

I need my ass kicked for being hard headed after I was warned.

Dam you like the Steelers, DC, and I'm guessing Prince, we should hang out.

kpowers said:

JediMaster said:

Yes, it is. The animation style changed somewhat, but that was a deliberate choice. The idea was to show that it was over a year later, and that things had changed in Gotham. The reason Robin looks like a "little kid" is because he IS. Dick Grayson, the Robin from the first three seasons, has left to become Nightwing (who also shows up in this season). The new Robin is Tim Drake, who is much younger.

Tim Drake sucks kill off all the Robins except Dick Grayson

Totally disagree. I quite like all the Robins, and the role Grayson has as an older brother figure to them. Besides, I like Grayson better as Nightwing...one of my favorite characters, actually.

babynoz said:

EmmaMcG said:

babynoz said: I love Schwarzenegger. LOVE him. But playing Mr. Freeze is not his finest hour. And as bad as he is in Batman & Robin, he's like Marlon Brando when compared to Uma Thurman. Everything about the Joel Schumacher Batman movies is wrong. He took Tim Burton's Frank Miller inspired Batman revival and brought it back to the dark days of Adam West. I still believe that if Tim Burton wasn't coming back to do the third movie, Paul Dini and Bruce Timm should have been brought in.

I have to agree about Uma Thurman, she was absolutely wreched and should be throttled.

This was worse than the TV series from the sixties. At least that had some campy charm.

Exactly. And I completely agree...it IS the worst movie in the history of cinema. It doesn't even work in the "so bad it's good" way. It's a complete fail, on every level.

I hated Thurman so much in this movie, I didn't forgive her until Kill Bill.

JediMaster said:

babynoz said:

I have to agree about Uma Thurman, she was absolutely wreched and should be throttled.

This was worse than the TV series from the sixties. At least that had some campy charm.

Exactly. And I completely agree...it IS the worst movie in the history of cinema. It doesn't even work in the "so bad it's good" way. It's a complete fail, on every level.

I hated Thurman so much in this movie, I didn't forgive her until Kill Bill.

I don't blame her for that completely. The whole thing was a mess.

Top 5 misunderstood plot points of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Some great plot points that seemed to be misunderstood, or went completely over people's heads:

http://www.outrightgeekery.com/2016/04/12/top-5-misunderstood-plot-points-batman-v-superman/

kpowers said:

babynoz said:

I did see Mask Of The Phatasm. I should watch again just to get that awful Clooney movie out of my head. I have new reasons to detest Swartzenegger too.

I need my ass kicked for being hard headed after I was warned.

Dam you like the Steelers, DC, and I'm guessing Prince, we should hang out.

2freaky must never know,

TheBatman said:

Top 5 misunderstood plot points of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Some great plot points that seemed to be misunderstood, or went completely over people's heads:

http://www.outrightgeekery.com/2016/04/12/top-5-misunderstood-plot-points-batman-v-superman/

Thanks. Those are the type of things I was talking about when I say in my review that I appreciated the storytelling aspects of the film.

JediMaster said:

babynoz said:

I have to agree about Uma Thurman, she was absolutely wreched and should be throttled.

This was worse than the TV series from the sixties. At least that had some campy charm.

Exactly. And I completely agree...it IS the worst movie in the history of cinema. It doesn't even work in the "so bad it's good" way. It's a complete fail, on every level.

I hated Thurman so much in this movie, I didn't forgive her until Kill Bill.

I could kick myself.

TheBatman said:

Top 5 misunderstood plot points of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Some great plot points that seemed to be misunderstood, or went completely over people's heads:

http://www.outrightgeekery.com/2016/04/12/top-5-misunderstood-plot-points-batman-v-superman/

Wow...that author is really arrogant. None of that went over most folks heads...it's still a poorly written, poorly edited film. But still, I'll address these "issues" that the author thinks the audience is too dumb to understand:

5. Africa- Yeah, it's pretty obvious that Superman is taking flack for interferring with a situation he isn't asked to. The reason? Why...to save Lois, of course! He didn't become involved to correct an imbalance, or even do what's right. He's there to put the stomp down on the folks messing with his girlfriend.

4. Batman's (lack of) no kill code- First off, this author makes the same mistake 90% of the defenders of this film do, including Snyder: He thinks Batman in the Dark Knight Returns kills the mutant gang member by shooting him in the head. Well, he doesn't. We see Batman fire the gun, and a blood splatter behind him, but a COUPLE PANELS LATER, Lana Lang SPECIFICALLY says that Batman hasn't killed anyone. Miller himself has stated that most readers misunderstood that panel, and that Batman had shot the gang member in the shoulder (considering it doesn't show an entry wound to his head, I don't know why folks think this).

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2016/04/06/movie-legends-revealed-did-batman-actually-kill-anyone-in-the-dark-knight-returns/

The author also tries to justify this Batman's actions...by using the Burton movies? Really? So...other filmmakers have screwed up in translating the character too, so that gives Snyder a pass? No...sorry, but any filmmaker who doesn't respect the character enough to ignore a central tenet of the philosphy behind him should be called to task.

3. Martha Kent getting kidnapped- I'll give the author this one, though I still think that freakin' Superman would have found a way to find her. I mean, yes...this incarnation of Superman is dumb as a stump, and utterly lacks deductive reasoning, but Superman in the comics is extremely intelligent, and would have looked for clues as to her whereabouts. It was a dumb contrivance to get Batman and Superman together to fight.

2 Wonder Woman not using the spear- Okay, yes...Superman would be concerned for Wonder Woman's life, but considering that he KNOWS the kryptonite makes him completely vulnerable...wouldn't it have made more sense to toss the spear to her while he (fully powered) distracted Doomsday by pummeling him in the head? Again...this Superman is far dumber than his comic counterpart.

1. Martha- Yeah, I get it...Batman hears "Martha" and is immediately taken back to the murder of his mother...and his heart grows three sizes or something. Problem is, it's so INCREDIBLY contrived that Superman would say "save Martha". WHO THE HELL CALLS THEIR MOM BY FIRST NAME? Saying "please, save my mother" would have had the same effect...and could have stopped Batman from murdering Superman. Or, they could have just been true to the character and not had him BE A FREAKIN' MURDERER! Since the film lifts liberally from Dark Knight Returns, you'd think the filmmakers could have had the sense to pay attention to how Batman handled Superman in THAT book: by neutralizing him, in a non-lethal fashion. Because of the fact that this film just ignores the character's nature, and decides to make Batman into Jason Voorhees and Superman into an ultra-powered lunkhead, then they have to come up with some way to reconcile two characters. They wouldn't have had that issue if they'd just followed the comics from the get-go.

[Edited 4/13/16 15:31pm]

JediMaster said:

EmmaMcG said:

I still don't understand why people care that much about Batman killing people. Its not as though he's going out doing it for kicks. He only kills people who are trying to kill him. Saying that it's not true to the comics is not a valid reason because I've done a bit of research on Batman and seen that he's killed in the comics before. The more popular version of Batman doesn't kill, but he has been known to do it before. And shouldn't people just accept that this new version of Batman is different from previous versions. All superheroes kill people, why should Batman be any different. Dawn of Justice is not perfect by any means, but Batman killing folks is the least of its problems.

Batman hasn't killed people in the comics since the 1940's, when there was an editorial mandate from Whitney Ellsworth that declared he wouldn't do so anymore. The Batman character who killed people doesn't exist anymore, and as a fan of Batman, I want to see the hero that is true to the source material. Batman has, since Batman #2, had a strict code against killing. If he didn't, then recurring villains like the Joker and the Riddler wouldn't be around, as Bats would definitely have offed them long before. Sure, you can point to the first couple years of his existence and say "Batman killed and used guns here", but that version of Batman also didn't have a Robin or an Alfred (he was a strict loner), lived in New York City and drove a red car, not a Batmobile. He was a very different character during that time period, and to try to revert him back to that state takes away 90% of what makes the character who he is.

Also,not every superhero kills. In fact, the VAST majority do not. You have a few, like Wonder Woman and Captain America, who kill in VERY specific instances, but they are the exception, not the rule. The idea that "superheroes kill people" is one that comes from films that ignore the source material. There are exceptions, like Wolverine, Deadpool or Punisher (and. I'd argue that they qualify as anti-heroes), but they are few and far between. Superman, Supergirl, The Flash, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, etc do NOT kill (and the same holds true for Marvel characters like Spider-Man, Daredevil, Wasp, etc)

[Edited 4/13/16 7:31am]

JediMaster said:

EmmaMcG said:

I can appreciate where you're coming from and you obviously know a lot more than I do about these characters histories in the comics. But the movie versions do tend to differ a lot from their source material. Christopher Reeve as Superman killed a non powered Zod in Superman 2. Michael Keaton's Batman killed more people than the Joker did. An argument could be made that by Spider-Man and Christian Bales Batman not saving Norman Osborne and Ra's Al Ghul that they doomed them to their fate. Captain America kills a lot of Nazis in the first captain America movie, which is fair enough, that was war, but he was at it again in Avengers and Winter Soldier when shooting the Hydra guys. Iron Man killed his way out of the cave in the first of his movies and I can't remember much about the sequels but I think he kills a few guys in them. Wolverine kills a lot of guys in the X-Men movies too. I know you already listed him as an exception but I thought he was worth mentioning for that scene in X-Men 2 when he kills all the men infiltrating the school. The point I'm making is that those guys might not kill in the comics but movies are different. They don't need to show the hero taking the moral high ground to appear heroic. All the best heroes in movies kill. Stallone, Schwarzenegger, Willis, Van Damme etc. Movies have always shown the good guy killing the bad guy. The argument could be made that SUPER heroes SHOULD be better than that but honestly, I don't see it being a major problem. Personally, I always think it makes the character cooler if they kill the villain. Then again, I'm one of the few people who thinks The Terminator from T-2 should have killed the cops instead of taking leg shots. Read into that what you will.

Well, lots of crappy movies have shown heroes killing, but if you're going to have Batman or Superman shooting or snapping necks, then why use those characters to begin with? Why not have a new character in the Schwarzenegger vein?

Again, I don't have an issue with showing a character like Captain America or Wolverine killing villains in their films, as that is true to their roots. Cap has always been one to TRY not to kill, but he's ultimately a soldier and does what is necessary to stop Nazis, Terrorists, etc.. That is how the character has been depicted in comics AND film, so no problem there. Wolverine is someone who always struggles against his bestial nature, and when necessary he lets the animal off the leash, so this isn't contradictory to who the character is. Where I have a problem is the "movies are different" concept. There is no reason why this has to be the case, as plenty of superhero films have been made where we see the hero use restraint. It's been done to wonderful effect in the Netflix Daredevil series, so it is possible. I want to see the characters I love treated with respect, and not shown acting dramatically different. Put it another way...remember those terrible Tom and Jerry cartoons where they suddenly were buddies, after years of seeing them fight? Yeah...those sucked, because they ignored key elements of who those characters are. Movies showing Batman killing people are the cinematic equivalent of those Tom-and-Jerry-are-buddies cartoons, because they likewise miss the point as to who he is as a character. If you want to do a murderous vigilante in a movie, then pick one of those characters where that fits (heck, DC/WB already own the character of Midnighter, who is a deliberate riff on the concept of "what if Batman didn't have the code against killing". They could have done a Midnighter movie, if they just had to have a character without the compulsion to spare life).

As for the moral questions that arise for Spider-Man "leaving Osbourne to his fate", I disagree there. The Goblin accidentally killed himself...all Spidey did was leap away (to avoid being impaled himself). This isn't a betrayal of the character's roots either, as that almost identical scene is in a Spider-Man comic. Spidey doesn't kill, but he's certainly had to deal with the fallout of his actions..for good or ill. In the films, we see this when he takes Osbourne's body back to his home, which ultimately leads to him having to deal with Harry. Part of what makes Spidey work so well is his sense of responsibility, and the moment they show him pull out a machine gun and mow crooks down, I'll be completely done with the movie. It would be a fundamental misunderstanding of the character, in ever way. Spider-Man choosing to not allow himself to get skewered? That is the kind of thing that isn't contradictory, since he didn't try to kill the Goblin...Osbourne's own actions led to his demise.

namepeace said:

JediMaster said:

Exactly. And I completely agree...it IS the worst movie in the history of cinema. It doesn't even work in the "so bad it's good" way. It's a complete fail, on every level.

I hated Thurman so much in this movie, I didn't forgive her until Kill Bill.

I don't blame her for that completely. The whole thing was a mess.

I don't blame her completely either. She puts in a terrible performance, but so does everyone else. The director and the studio wanted them to act as over-the-top and goofy as possible.

JediMaster said:

EmmaMcG said:

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying you're wrong. And maybe if I was a fan of the comics when I was younger I would share your opinions but my first exposure to Batman was the Tim Burton movies so to me, Batman is more of an action hero, so to see him killing when necessary isn't such a big deal. If he was killing just for the sake of it, I wouldn't like it, but in Dawn of Justice, I don't think that was the case. I would like to get your opinion on one thing in regard to the Arkham games, where the no killing rule is a thing, but there is a part where the lines are blurred big time. However, if you haven't played it, then I don't want to ruin it for you. Have you played them or do you plan on playing them?

My son plays them, but I'm not really a gamer. I've watched my son play them, because of Conroy & Hamill's participation alone! Not recalling a bit where the line is blurred, but I may be forgetting something. I WILL say that, at least in the case of the first two games, I really loved the tone presented. It was a nice blend of elements from the comics, the animated series, Burton's films and Nolan's films. The gadgets were more in line with Nolan, but the overall look was a more restrained Burton film. I'd love to see that kind of approach to a Batman solo film with Affleck. Aside from my issues with the script, I really enjoyed Affleck's approach to the character.

JediMaster said:

EmmaMcG said:

JediMaster said:

My son plays them, but I'm not really a gamer. I've watched my son play them, because of Conroy & Hamill's participation alone! Not recalling a bit where the line is blurred, but I may be forgetting something. I WILL say that, at least in the case of the first two games, I really loved the tone presented. It was a nice blend of elements from the comics, the animated series, Burton's films and Nolan's films. The gadgets were more in line with Nolan, but the overall look was a more restrained Burton film. I'd love to see that kind of approach to a Batman solo film with Affleck. Aside from my issues with the script, I really enjoyed Affleck's approach to the character.

I haven't played them before either but I watched my brother play them all and I'm currently struggling through them myself on the easy difficulty. But anyway, there's a part in the last game where Batman finds Ra's Al Ghul, who is in the process of another regeneration. Ra's' daughter, not Talia, the other one, wants him dead because of how much he's changed and she asks Batman to kill him in order to save Gotham. Alfred makes the argument that Ra's is technically not alive due to the effects of the Lazerous Pit but he's clearly conscious and aware. Batman makes it clear that he doesn't want to take a life but Alfred reminds him of the dangers of not taking action now. The game leaves it to the player to decide whether or not to save or kill him. My brother killed him when he played it and after doing it, Batman says something along the lines of his own personal no killing rule must not prevent him from saving millions innocent people. Which, I think, is fair enough. I'm glad you liked Afflecks performance. I really enjoyed it too. Definitely the best thing about the movie. I'm looking forward to his solo movie. Ben Affleck is a far better director than Snyder so it should be good.

Haven't seen that particular bit, but I kinda like that. It ties into the debate that Batman fans have had for decades: if Batman just made an exception to his rule for the Joker, he'd potentially save thousands of lives. Of course, the flip side to that is...we wouldn't have the Joker as a villain if that happened! Personally, I think Alfred would be right...killing Ra's is an exception he should make. He shouldn't have lived that long anyway, and the dude is a terrorist who wants to wipe out massive chunks of the world's population!

Totally agree with you on Affleck as a director as well. He's light years beyond Snyder, and I'm encouraged that he's apparently developing the script with Geoff Johns (one of my favorite comic writers). I look forward to seeing him be able to play Batman with a proper script & director. I'm also excited about the Wonder Woman movie, since I thought Gadot was one of the better things in the film

babynoz said:

kpowers said:

Dam you like the Steelers, DC, and I'm guessing Prince, we should hang out.

2freaky must never know,

breakdown2k14 said:

Anybody seen the new "Justice League Vs Teen Titans animated movie ?

I want to. Is out yet??

kpowers said: