RodeoSchro said:

EmmaMcG said:

A lot has been made of him killing people and I don't read the comics but I've heard it said that it's something he doesn't do, but for the purposes of the film, it works.

The people who say Batman doesn't kill are the same non comic reading idiots who say he doesn't use guns...
They're just parroting other idiots to sound like they know something about the character because it's all of a sudden "hip" to know Batman...
Batman used guns numerous times and killed (rather horrifically) numerous times...

Neversin.

RodeoSchro said:

Batman killing people is a relatively new thing. Batmandidn't kill anyone in the 40's, 50's, 60's, or 70's. And probably not in the '80's either.

Such utter bullshit...

In the earliest comics Batman shoots guns and kills bad guys and gangsters...

Neversin.

babynoz said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Actually, come to think of it, Nicholas Cage once played a man who thought he was a vampire in Vampire's Kiss...

He looks like Thor's brother Loki though,

Yeah, and that's not a good thing

Neversin said:

RodeoSchro said:

Batman killing people is a relatively new thing. Batmandidn't kill anyone in the 40's, 50's, 60's, or 70's. And probably not in the '80's either.

Such utter bullshit...

In the earliest comics Batman shoots guns and kills bad guys and gangsters...

Neversin.

I NEVER killed anybody

Neversin said:

kpowers said:

namepeace said:

For me, it's the greatest comic book in history. I understand the artwork was drab and unconventional for Bats but the story was incredible.

Once again we know a lot of people love Frank Millers Batman but there are some that don't like it

I know you know. Just wanted to express a little love for DKR!

kpowers said:

I think DC is behind but is catching up. DC is way ahead of Marvel in Animation movies and on TV

True. DC is about 20 years ahead of Marvel in the animation department and DC's run on TV has been far better for . . . well . . . forever. DC's had hit shows in almost every decade in the history of TV.

namepeace said:

kpowers said:

Once again we know a lot of people love Frank Millers Batman but there are some that don't like it

I know you know. Just wanted to express a little love for DKR!

No need because it's been well established by Frank Miller fans

RodeoSchro said:

I've read way too many negative reviews on this, including one with every spoiler there is. And they all have one common complaint - this movie is not fun.

You know, there's a reason why these characters are called SUPERheroes. They are SUPER. They are BETTER. That means in all areas, not just in their physical traits. They are more moral, more upbeat, more upstanding, more EVERYTHING that is better. That's what makes them SUPERheroes.

Superman does not commit murder. Batman does not commit murder. The title of this movie might have the names "Batman" and "Superman" in it, but the characters are not Superman and Batman.

Pass.

Yeah, me too. I'm kind of curious but I'm also fairly certain I won't like it. Also, some of the spoilers I read just seem too dumb. I'll watch it later somewhere when it becomes available.

daingermouz2020 said:

Neversin said:

Such utter bullshit...

In the earliest comics Batman shoots guns and kills bad guys and gangsters...

Neversin.

Yep, so true. Originally Batman did kill quite a bit. Early Superman also killed throwing guys off cliffs, In the 1941 serial Adventures of Captain Marvel the Captain threw a guy off a building and shot some guys in the back with machine gun as they were attempting to flee and of course Wonder Woman kills. Breaking Maxwell Lords neck as well as in the 1975 Wonder Woman pilot starring Lynda Carter, Wonder Woman kills a pilot by knocking him out and slamming his plane into a Nazi U boat . I think most complaints come from people who have very limited knowledge of the characters. You can't just have watched the 1966 TV series Batman, Lynda Carters. WW, George Reeves & Christopher Reeve version of Superman,SuperFriends etc and think you know the characters. I have not seen this movie yet but I'm looking forward to checking it out this weekend and will Judge it for myself. My son drove 5 hrs from school so he and his wife could see it together. He called me and said he'd give the movie a 6.5 out of 10 saying he liked it could be better. I guess Ill know soon enough.

I disagree with both of y'all, especially with respect to Superman. But then again I am going off my memory of growing up reading these comics in the '60's and 70's, plus having two-inch-thick anthologies of each character that covered their entire existence (up to around 1974 I guess).

I stand by my point - Superman and Batman are not killers.

Anyway, I'm not going to watch this movie. It in no way represents the Superman and Batman that I grew up with. But if you like it, more power to you.

Phishanga said:

RodeoSchro said:

I've read way too many negative reviews on this, including one with every spoiler there is. And they all have one common complaint - this movie is not fun.

You know, there's a reason why these characters are called SUPERheroes. They are SUPER. They are BETTER. That means in all areas, not just in their physical traits. They are more moral, more upbeat, more upstanding, more EVERYTHING that is better. That's what makes them SUPERheroes.

Superman does not commit murder. Batman does not commit murder. The title of this movie might have the names "Batman" and "Superman" in it, but the characters are not Superman and Batman.

Pass.

Yeah, me too. I'm kind of curious but I'm also fairly certain I won't like it. Also, some of the spoilers I read just seem too dumb. I'll watch it later somewhere when it becomes available.

that's about where i reside as well. most of the reviews have said it's a long, dreary bore. I'm easy to please. I can find something to enjoy in almost any kind of movie...but i'm not eager to put money down on something that seems so likely to be boring and dopey (yeesh to that martha business). I'll see it eventually, but i'm content to wait.

Neversin said:

EmmaMcG said:

A lot has been made of him killing people and I don't read the comics but I've heard it said that it's something he doesn't do, but for the purposes of the film, it works.

The people who say Batman doesn't kill are the same non comic reading idiots who say he doesn't use guns...
They're just parroting other idiots to sound like they know something about the character because it's all of a sudden "hip" to know Batman...
Batman used guns numerous times and killed (rather horrifically) numerous times...

Neversin.

Batman killed people in the earliest incarnations of Detective Comics, but after kids wrote in (as well as parents) asking why a hero would kill people, Bob Kane and Bill Finger decided to only have him kill monsters. In 1940, DC's EIC Whitney Elsworth declared that Batman would no longer kill, or use guns. From Batman #2 on, he has been shown to have a strong dislike for guns and a code against killing.

Being a LONG time comic reader, the whole thing about Batman having a code against killing or using guns has been one of the few constants in his primary incarnations. Exceptions to this have all been firmly established as alternate realities. In the pre-crisis continuity, as well as post-crisis, post-zero hour, post Infinite-Crisis and New 52 continuities, he has consistently shunned guns and restrained from killing.

Some people point out that he did use a gun in Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, and have debated whether he killed the mutant gang leader holding the child hostage (Miller himself has stated that Batman wounded him, but didn't kill). In this case, DKR is an alternate reality...and Batman has a change of heart in that story as well when he tells one of the "Sons of the Batman" that guns are a "coward's weapon". So no, I have to disagree with you that it is only "non comic reading idiots" who feel this way. I don't care how "hip" it is...I've been buying Batman comics since before I could read, and I have a pretty extensive knowledge of the character and his different iterations.

As for the film...issues of characterization aside, it just isn't a very good film. Affleck is fine, but the script is just plain stupid. Logic is in such short supply, you have to wonder if these are the dumbest heroes and villains ever assembled. Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman is the one bright spot in the entire mess of a film (and don't even get me started on Eisenberg's Luthor, who was the most obnoxious screen villain ever. He played the role like the coked-out love child of Jar Jar Binks and Jim Carrey's Riddler. I used to like Eisenberg as an actor...but now I just want to punch him).

This article here sums up my thoughts on the film fairly nicely:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/batman-v-superman-spoiler-faq-of-justice-1767720335?utm_medium=share_mobile_nothing&utm_source=io9_facebook

[Edited 3/30/16 14:19pm]

JediMaster said:

Neversin said:

The people who say Batman doesn't kill are the same non comic reading idiots who say he doesn't use guns...
They're just parroting other idiots to sound like they know something about the character because it's all of a sudden "hip" to know Batman...
Batman used guns numerous times and killed (rather horrifically) numerous times...

Neversin.

Batman killed people in the earliest incarnations of Detective Comics, but after kids wrote in (as well as parents) asking why a hero would kill people, Bob Kane and Bill Finger decided to only have him kill monsters. In 1940, DC's EIC Whitney Elsworth declared that Batman would no longer kill, or use guns. From Batman #2 on, he has been shown to have a strong dislike for guns and a code against killing.

Being a LONG time comic reader, the whole thing about Batman having a code against killing or using guns has been one of the few constants in his primary incarnations. Exceptions to this have all been firmly established as alternate realities. In the pre-crisis continuity, as well as post-crisis, post-zero hour, post Infinite-Crisis and New 52 continuities, he has consistently shunned guns and restrained from killing.

Some people point out that he did use a gun in Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, and have debated whether he killed the mutant gang leader holding the child hostage (Miller himself has stated that Batman wounded him, but didn't kill). In this case, DKR is an alternate reality...and Batman has a change of heart in that story as well when he tells one of the "Sons of the Batman" that guns are a "coward's weapon". So no, I have to disagree with you that it is only "non comic reading idiots" who feel this way. I don't care how "hip" it is...I've been buying Batman comics since before I could read, and I have a pretty extensive knowledge of the character and his different iterations.

As for the film...issues of characterization aside, it just isn't a very good film. Affleck is fine, but the script is just plain stupid. Logic is in such short supply, you have to wonder if these are the dumbest heroes and villains ever assembled. Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman is the one bright spot in the entire mess of a film (and don't even get me started on Eisenberg's Luthor, who was the most obnoxious screen villain ever. He played the role like the coked-out love child of Jar Jar Binks and Jim Carrey's Riddler. I used to like Eisenberg as an actor...but now I just want to punch him).

This article here sums up my thoughts on the film fairly nicely:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/batman-v-superman-spoiler-faq-of-justice-1767720335?utm_medium=share_mobile_nothing&utm_source=io9_facebook

[Edited 3/30/16 14:19pm]

LOL thanks, great post. I am a non comic reading idiot NOW, but I bet I was reading Batman comics before Neversin was born.

JediMaster said:

Neversin said:

The people who say Batman doesn't kill are the same non comic reading idiots who say he doesn't use guns...
They're just parroting other idiots to sound like they know something about the character because it's all of a sudden "hip" to know Batman...
Batman used guns numerous times and killed (rather horrifically) numerous times...

Neversin.

Batman killed people in the earliest incarnations of Detective Comics, but after kids wrote in (as well as parents) asking why a hero would kill people, Bob Kane and Bill Finger decided to only have him kill monsters. In 1940, DC's EIC Whitney Elsworth declared that Batman would no longer kill, or use guns. From Batman #2 on, he has been shown to have a strong dislike for guns and a code against killing.

Being a LONG time comic reader, the whole thing about Batman having a code against killing or using guns has been one of the few constants in his primary incarnations. Exceptions to this have all been firmly established as alternate realities. In the pre-crisis continuity, as well as post-crisis, post-zero hour, post Infinite-Crisis and New 52 continuities, he has consistently shunned guns and restrained from killing.

Some people point out that he did use a gun in Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, and have debated whether he killed the mutant gang leader holding the child hostage (Miller himself has stated that Batman wounded him, but didn't kill). In this case, DKR is an alternate reality...and Batman has a change of heart in that story as well when he tells one of the "Sons of the Batman" that guns are a "coward's weapon". So no, I have to disagree with you that it is only "non comic reading idiots" who feel this way. I don't care how "hip" it is...I've been buying Batman comics since before I could read, and I have a pretty extensive knowledge of the character and his different iterations.

As for the film...issues of characterization aside, it just isn't a very good film. Affleck is fine, but the script is just plain stupid. Logic is in such short supply, you have to wonder if these are the dumbest heroes and villains ever assembled. Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman is the one bright spot in the entire mess of a film (and don't even get me started on Eisenberg's Luthor, who was the most obnoxious screen villain ever. He played the role like the coked-out love child of Jar Jar Binks and Jim Carrey's Riddler. I used to like Eisenberg as an actor...but now I just want to punch him).

This article here sums up my thoughts on the film fairly nicely:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/batman-v-superman-spoiler-faq-of-justice-1767720335?utm_medium=share_mobile_nothing&utm_source=io9_facebook

[Edited 3/30/16 14:19pm]

I contend that those people were dead before I beat the crap out of them

Kpowers: Well...that...and the fact that those adventures are considered as belonging to the Golden Age Batman, who was later declared to be the Batman of Pre-Crisis Earth 2....so...it's a far cry from the Batman of the Animated Series that you appear to be! And let's face facts: the Batman of the Animated Series, voiced by Kevin Conroy, is THE greatest version of Batman in ANY media! The perfect blend of all the different incarnations up until that point, and the gold standard by which ALL versions of Batman are judged!!!

RodeoSchro: I hear ya. I don't always agree with Neversin, but he's usually pretty informed...so it surprised me that he made such a statement. Batman was my introduction to comics, and while I was mainly a Marvel kid I've always followed the character. I know WAY too much about many different comic characters...but Batman and Spider-Man I know a ridiculous amount of trivia. If I could somehow make money off of obscure facts about these characters, I'd be richer than Bruce Wayne!

JediMaster said:

Kpowers: Well...that...and the fact that those adventures are considered as belonging to the Golden Age Batman, who was later declared to be the Batman of Pre-Crisis Earth 2....so...it's a far cry from the Batman of the Animated Series that you appear to be! And let's face facts: the Batman of the Animated Series, voiced by Kevin Conroy, is THE greatest version of Batman in ANY media! The perfect blend of all the different incarnations up until that point, and the gold standard by which ALL versions of Batman are judged!!!

RodeoSchro: I hear ya. I don't always agree with Neversin, but he's usually pretty informed...so it surprised me that he made such a statement. Batman was my introduction to comics, and while I was mainly a Marvel kid I've always followed the character. I know WAY too much about many different comic characters...but Batman and Spider-Man I know a ridiculous amount of trivia. If I could somehow make money off of obscure facts about these characters, I'd be richer than Bruce Wayne!

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RodeoSchro said:

JediMaster said:

Batman killed people in the earliest incarnations of Detective Comics, but after kids wrote in (as well as parents) asking why a hero would kill people, Bob Kane and Bill Finger decided to only have him kill monsters. In 1940, DC's EIC Whitney Elsworth declared that Batman would no longer kill, or use guns. From Batman #2 on, he has been shown to have a strong dislike for guns and a code against killing.

Being a LONG time comic reader, the whole thing about Batman having a code against killing or using guns has been one of the few constants in his primary incarnations. Exceptions to this have all been firmly established as alternate realities. In the pre-crisis continuity, as well as post-crisis, post-zero hour, post Infinite-Crisis and New 52 continuities, he has consistently shunned guns and restrained from killing.

This is all true, but the initial statement was that Batman didn't kill anyone ever... Which is bullshit, since he did since his incarnation... I'm also a long time reader and big fan of Batman (except for the 60's and some of 70's...) and the reason why I started reading comics and, sure, his code of not using guns and not killing anyone is now his foundation but to say he NEVER killed anyone is just bullshit...

Neversin.

JediMaster said:

(and don't even get me started on Eisenberg's Luthor, who was the most obnoxious screen villain ever. He played the role like the coked-out love child of Jar Jar Binks and Jim Carrey's Riddler. I used to like Eisenberg as an actor...but now I just want to punch him).

[Edited 3/30/16 14:19pm]

I honestly think he was better (albeit completely different) than Hackman or Spacey...

Neversin.

Neversin said:

daingermouz2020 said:

Neversin said:

I honestly think he was better (albeit completely different) than Hackman or Spacey...

Neversin.

I'm looking forward to checking him out tomorrow. I've always hated Hackman and Spacey's versions of Lex. I don't think Eisenberg can be worse.

He was

Neversin said:

JediMaster said:

Batman killed people in the earliest incarnations of Detective Comics, but after kids wrote in (as well as parents) asking why a hero would kill people, Bob Kane and Bill Finger decided to only have him kill monsters. In 1940, DC's EIC Whitney Elsworth declared that Batman would no longer kill, or use guns. From Batman #2 on, he has been shown to have a strong dislike for guns and a code against killing.

Being a LONG time comic reader, the whole thing about Batman having a code against killing or using guns has been one of the few constants in his primary incarnations. Exceptions to this have all been firmly established as alternate realities. In the pre-crisis continuity, as well as post-crisis, post-zero hour, post Infinite-Crisis and New 52 continuities, he has consistently shunned guns and restrained from killing.

This is all true, but the initial statement was that Batman didn't kill anyone ever... Which is bullshit, since he did since his incarnation... I'm also a long time reader and big fan of Batman (except for the 60's and some of 70's...) and the reason why I started reading comics and, sure, his code of not using guns and not killing anyone is now his foundation but to say he NEVER killed anyone is just bullshit...

Neversin.

My statement was "Batman killing people is a relatively new thing. Batman didn't kill anyone in the 40's, 50's, 60's, or 70's. And probably not in the '80's either." He DID kill people in the first issues, as JediMaster said, which were in 1939, i.e. the '30's. And as JediMaster pointed out, that stopped in 1940.

Maybe you should actually read what others post before trying to play Billy Badass on the internet.

EmmaMcG said:

RodeoSchro said:

Anyway, I'm not going to watch this movie. It in no way represents the Superman and Batman that I grew up with. But if you like it, more power to you.

I grew up with Christopher Reeve and Michael Keaton but I was still interested in seeing these new versions. I'm sure there's been a lot of different versions of these characters in the comics so what's so bad about there being different versions in the movies? As for them being killers, I don't know if you read my previous post but Superman doesn't kill anyone in these films with the exception of Zod but Christopher Reeve did that too. Batman does kill a few people but all movie versions of Batman have done that, even the holier than thou Christian Bale version.

Well, it's true that all the film versions have done this (I don't recall Bale's version doing so, but I'll take your word for it), but that doesn't mean it's okay. That was my biggest complaint about the Burton films as well, because it is a KEY component of Batman, throughout most of his history. To me, it's like not having Superman fly, or Spider-Man not spinning webs (and no, Superman shouldn't kill either).

To put it in different terms, sure...you can do a movie where Freddy Krueger is a Superhero, or Jaws is a dolphin who shoots lazer beams out of his eyes...but should you? At what point is the character on screen NOT the character known and loved by fans? In my mind, and in many others, Batman and Superman are characters that are loved by millions, and looked up to by children. Showing them blowing people away is a betrayal of the core principles those characters have grown to represent.

Neversin said:

JediMaster said:

(and don't even get me started on Eisenberg's Luthor, who was the most obnoxious screen villain ever. He played the role like the coked-out love child of Jar Jar Binks and Jim Carrey's Riddler. I used to like Eisenberg as an actor...but now I just want to punch him).

[Edited 3/30/16 14:19pm]

I honestly think he was better (albeit completely different) than Hackman or Spacey...

Neversin.

ugh...we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. While I had issues with both Hackman and Spacey, I absolutely LOATHE Eisneberg's take. I haven't hated an oncreen character like this since Pauly Shore quit making movies.

JediMaster said:

JediMaster said:

breakdown2k14 said: