purplethunder3121 said:

babynoz said:

Mine too....he is a very good actor.

And Tom Welling is still my favorite Superman since Chris Reeve.

The Smallville cast was great. Tom Welling was excellent as Superman. The above ^^^actor who played Lex and the actor who played Lionel Luther were, too.

Yep. One of the few TV shows that I was faithful to every week.

I was asking my son the other day how the continuity of actors or lack thereof in DC vs Marvel Universe impacts audiences. Is that one of the reasons for the consensus that DC is years behind Marvel on the big screen?

For example, the Xmen francise actors are fairly consistent except when they need to show some characters as children. Same with Iron Man and The Avengers. The only one I can think of that used different actors is Fantastic four, Spiderman and Hulk but they only changed actors once IIRC.

With DC we've I've lost count of the actors playing Bats, Supes, Joker, Catwoman, Arrow, etc.

The continuity issue irks me a little bit. How about you guys?

Yes, Marvel set up their universe better. They did it slowly over the course of different movies - that way we got to know the characters. DC waited too long and tried to do it in one film. However, the latest DC films (Nolan's Batman trilogy, MOS, BvS), are darker than the Marvel films, which is my preference.

I still hate Affleck, but he did a good job as an older, pissed-off Dark Knight, definitely based on Frank Miller's. To me, the weak part was the portrayal of Lex Luthor....way off.

uPtoWnNY said:

For me the modern era of Super Heroes movies started with 1978 DC Superman with Christopher Reeve. Loved Superman and Superman 2. Honestly Superman 3 ruined things. I don't know maybe after that turkey movie studios stayed away from super heroes movies for a few years. Four years later the studio released the last Superman movie with Christopher Reeve with Quest for Peace. The budget was greatly reduced and was also a dud (though I kinda like it better then part 3). Now it's the late 80's and the studios are done with Superman. Frank Millers Batman is pretty popular among comic book readers and thus the Studios focus on Batman. For the next 23 years DC and the movie studios are focusing on just Batman with some hits and alot of misses.2006 they release Superman returns, which I really liked since it just picks up after the 1978 movie. But hey it's not dark enough so let's scratch this and we will start all over again with a darker Superman with man of steel . Meanwhile fans are like hey what about other characters like Wonder Woman, The Flash and Green Lantern (which they eventualy did but was a dud as well). Now its 2000 and Marvel takes over with the start of the X-Men movies. Some are better than others but at this point I think they overkilled the franchise and should wait awhile. Spiderman also needs to slow things down because they keep making them one after another. I think thats Marvels problem is that they mass produce to many movies. I liked Ant Man and Dead Pool but think I'll lose intrest in Ant Man 7 and Dead Pool 9 within a 15 year period. Marvel has had some duds as well like Dare Devil, Ghost Rider and the Fantastic Four movies. Bring back Fantastic 4 if they do a secret wars movie. I liked Iron Man but the Sequels were not as good IMO. At this point I think Marvel has it right with a large cast of Super Heroes in it like the Avengers and Civil war. DC is finally come out of it's shell of let's just focus on Batman and Superman only phase. I think the Wonder Woman will be good.

kpowers said:

For me the modern era of Super Heroes movies started with 1978 DC Superman with Christopher Reeve. Loved Superman and Superman 2. Honestly Superman 3 ruined things. I don't know maybe after that turkey movie studios stayed away from super heroes movies for a few years. Four years later the studio released the last Superman movie with Christopher Reeve with Quest for Peace. The budget was greatly reduced and was also a dud (though I kinda like it better then part 3).

The original Superman producers thought they could get away with a "less is more" approach with each successive movie. and they hacked off Donner, apparently, which fortunately didn't hurt the sequel too much. III and IV were jumbled messes.


Now it's the late 80's and the studios are done with Superman. Frank Millers Batman is pretty popular among comic book readers and thus the Studios focus on Batman. For the next 23 years DC and the movie studios are focusing on just Batman with some hits and alot of misses.

Yeah, they learned their lesson from the 90s (when more was definitely less with each successive film) and put the franchise in the hands of a capable director and title character in the 00s-10s Dark Knight trilogy. Even then, what would we think about TDK trilogy without Heath Ledger's transcendent Joker?


2006 they release Superman returns, which I really liked since it just picks up after the 1978 movie. But hey it's not dark enough so let's scratch this and we will start all over again with a darker Superman with man of steel . Meanwhile fans are like hey what about other characters like Wonder Woman, The Flash and Green Lantern (which they eventualy did but was a dud as well). Now its 2000 and Marvel takes over with the start of the X-Men movies.

X-Men if nothing else proved an ensemble comic book film could work. Marvel got ahead of the curve while WB tried to go back to the future with focusing only on Kal-El in SR. Even Nolan-Bale seemed resistant to expanding the DCU in TDK trilogy. None of them set up a DCU franchise and in the meantime Marvel masterfully orchestrated the 1st 2 phases. Now Disney is well into Marvel Phase 3 and WB is cramming to catch up.

namepeace said:

kpowers said:

For me the modern era of Super Heroes movies started with 1978 DC Superman with Christopher Reeve. Loved Superman and Superman 2. Honestly Superman 3 ruined things. I don't know maybe after that turkey movie studios stayed away from super heroes movies for a few years. Four years later the studio released the last Superman movie with Christopher Reeve with Quest for Peace. The budget was greatly reduced and was also a dud (though I kinda like it better then part 3).

The original Superman producers thought they could get away with a "less is more" approach with each successive movie. and they hacked off Donner, apparently, which fortunately didn't hurt the sequel too much. III and IV were jumbled messes.


Now it's the late 80's and the studios are done with Superman. Frank Millers Batman is pretty popular among comic book readers and thus the Studios focus on Batman. For the next 23 years DC and the movie studios are focusing on just Batman with some hits and alot of misses.

Yeah, they learned their lesson from the 90s (when more was definitely less with each successive film) and put the franchise in the hands of a capable director and title character in the 00s-10s Dark Knight trilogy. Even then, what would we think about TDK trilogy without Heath Ledger's transcendent Joker?


2006 they release Superman returns, which I really liked since it just picks up after the 1978 movie. But hey it's not dark enough so let's scratch this and we will start all over again with a darker Superman with man of steel . Meanwhile fans are like hey what about other characters like Wonder Woman, The Flash and Green Lantern (which they eventualy did but was a dud as well). Now its 2000 and Marvel takes over with the start of the X-Men movies.

X-Men if nothing else proved an ensemble comic book film could work. Marvel got ahead of the curve while WB tried to go back to the future with focusing only on Kal-El in SR. Even Nolan-Bale seemed resistant to expanding the DCU in TDK trilogy. None of them set up a DCU franchise and in the meantime Marvel masterfully orchestrated the 1st 2 phases. Now Disney is well into Marvel Phase 3 and WB is cramming to catch up.

What about-

Now its 2000 and Marvel takes over with the start of the X-Men movies. Some are better than others but at this point I think they overkilled the franchise and should wait awhile. Spiderman also needs to slow things down because they keep making them one after another. I think thats Marvels problem is that they mass produce to many movies. I liked Ant Man and Dead Pool but think I'll lose intrest in Ant Man 7 and Dead Pool 9 within a 15 year period. Marvel has had some duds as well like Dare Devil, Ghost Rider and the Fantastic Four movies. Bring back Fantastic 4 if they do a secret wars movie. I liked Iron Man but the Sequels were not as good IMO. At this point I think Marvel has it right with a large cast of Super Heroes in it like the Avengers and Civil war. DC is finally come out of it's shell of let's just focus on Batman and Superman only phase. I think the Wonder Woman will be good.

namepeace said:

kpowers said:

For me the modern era of Super Heroes movies started with 1978 DC Superman with Christopher Reeve. Loved Superman and Superman 2. Honestly Superman 3 ruined things. I don't know maybe after that turkey movie studios stayed away from super heroes movies for a few years. Four years later the studio released the last Superman movie with Christopher Reeve with Quest for Peace. The budget was greatly reduced and was also a dud (though I kinda like it better then part 3).

The original Superman producers thought they could get away with a "less is more" approach with each successive movie. and they hacked off Donner, apparently, which fortunately didn't hurt the sequel too much. III and IV were jumbled messes.

"Less is more" thats what the movie studios did with the orignal 5 planet of the apes movies from the late 1960's through the mid 1970's

kpowers said:

namepeace said:

What about-

Now its 2000 and Marvel takes over with the start of the X-Men movies. Some are better than others but at this point I think they overkilled the franchise and should wait awhile. Spiderman also needs to slow things down because they keep making them one after another. I think thats Marvels problem is that they mass produce to many movies. I liked Ant Man and Dead Pool but think I'll lose intrest in Ant Man 7 and Dead Pool 9 within a 15 year period. Marvel has had some duds as well like Dare Devil, Ghost Rider and the Fantastic Four movies. Bring back Fantastic 4 if they do a secret wars movie. I liked Iron Man but the Sequels were not as good IMO. At this point I think Marvel has it right with a large cast of Super Heroes in it like the Avengers and Civil war. DC is finally come out of it's shell of let's just focus on Batman and Superman only phase. I think the Wonder Woman will be good.

I liked Fantastic Four and even Ghost Rider. I think Wonder Woman is gonna be good too.

Saw the trailer for Xmen today....woo-hoo!

Alrighty then....

First of all I admit that I would pay to watch Ben Affleck read a phone book but I knew my Benji was gonna nail it and he did. There were a whole bunch of skeptics and even now they dont want to admit that he did a great job. That's all the gushing I'm gonna do for now....give it up y'all.

Ben-ji, Ben-ji.

With that out of the way, I thought the movie was well done. There was a solid, well written storyline and the dialogue was more than just the usual series of wisecracks. It wasn't all fights, chases and explosions, especially in the first half of the movie. They actually took some time to engage in story telling, which I appreciated.

It wasn't special effects overkill either. My overall impression was that nothing was overdone with the possible exception of Lex Luthor Jr. I agree with most people who say his acting was a bit much. I felt that his portrayal of a psychotic villian was too cartoonish for this film.

I haven't seen anybody mention Wonder Woman, who I really liked because she was fierce and powerful in her own right, not overshadowed by the fellas. That heffa was baaaad...girl power!

I have decided that Henry Cavill can stay. He was good enough that I am no longer miffed about Tom Welling,

In fact all was well until the damn orc from Lord Of The Rings showed up.....wtf? C'mon son, seriously? Am I the only one who could have done without a giant orc with roid rage?

I'm giving it 8/10. We had a good time with this film.

Ran out of time to respond to this yesterday so here goes!

kpowers said:

What about-

Now its 2000 and Marvel takes over with the start of the X-Men movies. Some are better than others but at this point I think they overkilled the franchise and should wait awhile.

X-Men suffered from diminishing returns in the first trilogy. The reboot/prequels with McAvoy, Lawrence and Fassbender (portraying Magneto with an Anakin vibe) has its moments, but now we're dealing with an Apocalypse movie on the heels of an apocalypse-themed movie before it. With the time traveling and crossing storylines and jumbled cast of recurring and new cast members, it's become an enjoyable mess. But I agree, I think after this one they need to start over.

Spiderman also needs to slow things down because they keep making them one after another. I think thats Marvels problem is that they mass produce to many movies.

Fair point; I would say though that Marvel's real problem is that it doesn't have complete control over its own universe. Fox owns X-Men and Sony had Spidey, as the result of Hell, they were in litigation over Spider-Man for about a decade before the 1st film came out. Marvel has been good about rolling out its phases, but is the market big enough for the universe it wants to build (especially now that Star Wars is cranking up)?

I liked Ant Man and Dead Pool but think I'll lose intrest in Ant Man 7 and Dead Pool 9 within a 15 year period. Marvel has had some duds as well like Dare Devil, Ghost Rider and the Fantastic Four movies. Bring back Fantastic 4 if they do a secret wars movie. I liked Iron Man but the Sequels were not as good IMO. At this point I think Marvel has it right with a large cast of Super Heroes in it like the Avengers and Civil war. DC is finally come out of it's shell of let's just focus on Batman and Superman only phase. I think the Wonder Woman will be good.

Marvel is probably going to reach a tipping point. The first Iron Man and Thor, the Captain Americas, the Avengers, and Ant Man were good. I like what they've done with Hulk in these movies.

Wonder Woman breathed some life into BvS. Actually, the more I think about it, I liked the takes on Batman and Wonder Woman. Pulling the DCU together is the trick; can Snyder do it?

kpowers said:

namepeace said:

What about-

Now its 2000 and Marvel takes over with the start of the X-Men movies. Some are better than others but at this point I think they overkilled the franchise and should wait awhile. Spiderman also needs to slow things down because they keep making them one after another. I think thats Marvels problem is that they mass produce to many movies. I liked Ant Man and Dead Pool but think I'll lose intrest in Ant Man 7 and Dead Pool 9 within a 15 year period. Marvel has had some duds as well like Dare Devil, Ghost Rider and the Fantastic Four movies. Bring back Fantastic 4 if they do a secret wars movie. I liked Iron Man but the Sequels were not as good IMO. At this point I think Marvel has it right with a large cast of Super Heroes in it like the Avengers and Civil war. DC is finally come out of it's shell of let's just focus on Batman and Superman only phase. I think the Wonder Woman will be good.

Keep in mind, ost of the movies you mentioned were not actually made by Marvel. In the late 90's/ early 2000's, as Marvel was emerging from bankruptcy, they sold off film rights to just about every one of their properties. New Line got Blade, Sony got the Spider-Man characters, Universal got Hulk, Fox got X-Men, Fantastic Four, Daredevil & Ghost Rider. As a result, the Marvel characters started cropping up in movies left and right, but they were all being made by different studios. In the mid-2000's, as Marvel properties film rights started to revert back in many cases, they decided to make their own films, with a cohesive universe. 2008's Iron Man was the first film in this series, but they still had a lot of restrictions on them. Since Sony has been making Spidey films fairly regularly, and Fox still has the X-characters and FF, they weren't legally allowed to use any of those characters. Sony has been fairly good about working with Marvel, which is what led to Spidey being able to appear in Civil War, but Marvel's relationship with Fox has NOT been good. Marvel has tried to work out several deals to include X and FF characters in their films, but Fox has refused (in spite of many of the actors and directors pushing for this as well. Singer tried to coordinate with Whedon on the different Quicksilver interps, but Fox killed the collab).

Fox went so far to prevent Marvel from getting rights back to FF, they rushed the last movie into production without the script even being finished! They had a deadline to get a film made, or else the rights would revert to Marvel. So this is why you've had Marvel movies that don't seem to exist in the same universe as the Avengers characters...because they actually don't at this point. As rights to certain characters go back to Marvel, we get great stuff like the Netflix Daredevil and Jessica Jones series. For the time being, the X-Universe is firmly in Fox's hands, and it doesn't look like they plan on abandoning that cash cow anytime soon.

JediMaster said:

kpowers said:

What about-

Now its 2000 and Marvel takes over with the start of the X-Men movies. Some are better than others but at this point I think they overkilled the franchise and should wait awhile. Spiderman also needs to slow things down because they keep making them one after another. I think thats Marvels problem is that they mass produce to many movies. I liked Ant Man and Dead Pool but think I'll lose intrest in Ant Man 7 and Dead Pool 9 within a 15 year period. Marvel has had some duds as well like Dare Devil, Ghost Rider and the Fantastic Four movies. Bring back Fantastic 4 if they do a secret wars movie. I liked Iron Man but the Sequels were not as good IMO. At this point I think Marvel has it right with a large cast of Super Heroes in it like the Avengers and Civil war. DC is finally come out of it's shell of let's just focus on Batman and Superman only phase. I think the Wonder Woman will be good.

Keep in mind, ost of the movies you mentioned were not actually made by Marvel. In the late 90's/ early 2000's, as Marvel was emerging from bankruptcy, they sold off film rights to just about every one of their properties. New Line got Blade, Sony got the Spider-Man characters, Universal got Hulk, Fox got X-Men, Fantastic Four, Daredevil & Ghost Rider. As a result, the Marvel characters started cropping up in movies left and right, but they were all being made by different studios. In the mid-2000's, as Marvel properties film rights started to revert back in many cases, they decided to make their own films, with a cohesive universe. 2008's Iron Man was the first film in this series, but they still had a lot of restrictions on them. Since Sony has been making Spidey films fairly regularly, and Fox still has the X-characters and FF, they weren't legally allowed to use any of those characters. Sony has been fairly good about working with Marvel, which is what led to Spidey being able to appear in Civil War, but Marvel's relationship with Fox has NOT been good. Marvel has tried to work out several deals to include X and FF characters in their films, but Fox has refused (in spite of many of the actors and directors pushing for this as well. Singer tried to coordinate with Whedon on the different Quicksilver interps, but Fox killed the collab).

Fox went so far to prevent Marvel from getting rights back to FF, they rushed the last movie into production without the script even being finished! They had a deadline to get a film made, or else the rights would revert to Marvel. So this is why you've had Marvel movies that don't seem to exist in the same universe as the Avengers characters...because they actually don't at this point. As rights to certain characters go back to Marvel, we get great stuff like the Netflix Daredevil and Jessica Jones series. For the time being, the X-Universe is firmly in Fox's hands, and it doesn't look like they plan on abandoning that cash cow anytime soon.

And you know Marvel Studios would do a great job with the X-Men franchise under their control (although I'm sure that would mean less movies starring B-level characters like Ant-Man). Many of the X-Men films have been competently made, but the source material has been ripped to shreds.

Batman V Superman was so bad, that I just don't see how DC is going to build a movie universe from that movie. I think DC/WB is going to push forward just to save face, because the've announced this big slate of movies up until 2019 or 2020. I bet they don't do all those movies if Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman don't do well.

JediMaster said:

kpowers said:

What about-

Now its 2000 and Marvel takes over with the start of the X-Men movies. Some are better than others but at this point I think they overkilled the franchise and should wait awhile. Spiderman also needs to slow things down because they keep making them one after another. I think thats Marvels problem is that they mass produce to many movies. I liked Ant Man and Dead Pool but think I'll lose intrest in Ant Man 7 and Dead Pool 9 within a 15 year period. Marvel has had some duds as well like Dare Devil, Ghost Rider and the Fantastic Four movies. Bring back Fantastic 4 if they do a secret wars movie. I liked Iron Man but the Sequels were not as good IMO. At this point I think Marvel has it right with a large cast of Super Heroes in it like the Avengers and Civil war. DC is finally come out of it's shell of let's just focus on Batman and Superman only phase. I think the Wonder Woman will be good.

Keep in mind, ost of the movies you mentioned were not actually made by Marvel. In the late 90's/ early 2000's, as Marvel was emerging from bankruptcy, they sold off film rights to just about every one of their properties. New Line got Blade, Sony got the Spider-Man characters, Universal got Hulk, Fox got X-Men, Fantastic Four, Daredevil & Ghost Rider. As a result, the Marvel characters started cropping up in movies left and right, but they were all being made by different studios. In the mid-2000's, as Marvel properties film rights started to revert back in many cases, they decided to make their own films, with a cohesive universe. 2008's Iron Man was the first film in this series, but they still had a lot of restrictions on them. Since Sony has been making Spidey films fairly regularly, and Fox still has the X-characters and FF, they weren't legally allowed to use any of those characters. Sony has been fairly good about working with Marvel, which is what led to Spidey being able to appear in Civil War, but Marvel's relationship with Fox has NOT been good. Marvel has tried to work out several deals to include X and FF characters in their films, but Fox has refused (in spite of many of the actors and directors pushing for this as well. Singer tried to coordinate with Whedon on the different Quicksilver interps, but Fox killed the collab).

Fox went so far to prevent Marvel from getting rights back to FF, they rushed the last movie into production without the script even being finished! They had a deadline to get a film made, or else the rights would revert to Marvel. So this is why you've had Marvel movies that don't seem to exist in the same universe as the Avengers characters...because they actually don't at this point. As rights to certain characters go back to Marvel, we get great stuff like the Netflix Daredevil and Jessica Jones series. For the time being, the X-Universe is firmly in Fox's hands, and it doesn't look like they plan on abandoning that cash cow anytime soon.

This "FOX" you talk about sounds alot like your Empire

therat said:

Batman V Superman was so bad, that I just don't see how DC is going to build a movie universe from that movie. I think DC/WB is going to push forward just to save face, because the've announced this big slate of movies up until 2019 or 2020. I bet they don't do all those movies if Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman don't do well.

That's ok because there is this new thing they love to do, it's called "Reboot"

therat said:

Batman V Superman was so bad, that I just don't see how DC is going to build a movie universe from that movie. I think DC/WB is going to push forward just to save face, because the've announced this big slate of movies up until 2019 or 2020. I bet they don't do all those movies if Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman don't do well.

According to estimates, they'd need $750-800 million to break even and they're headed for a global take of $900 million. My guess is they'll hit somewhere between 250-300 domestic gross, which is usually enough to launch a "phase."

SuSq and WW are in different directors' hands, so I don't think Snyder sunk the DC ship.

babynoz said:

I haven't seen anybody mention Wonder Woman, who I really liked because she was fierce and powerful in her own right, not overshadowed by the fellas. That heffa was baaaad...girl power!

I loved Wonder Woman in the movie and I thought she kicked ass. Honestly my favorite part in the movie is when Superman and Batman thought each other was with Wonder Woman. I'm looking forward to the Wonder Woman movie.

I didn't see it coming, but I think Man Of Steel was far better as a movie.

The first trailer of this thing was promising and got me excited. Maybe it's just a case of something that had been pretty decent as a sketch of a movie, but the executives kept adding stuff to it and it became a mess. It sort of worked as a Man Of Steel sequel, I guess.

I feel sort of weird about there not being any real fights before Batman and Superman fought each other. We didn't see Affleck really being Batman, unless that dream sequence counts. We don't even see him too much in his "basic" Batman costume until, uhm, the end.

Starting the DC cinematic universe with borrowed storylines from The Dark Knight Returns and The Death Of Supeman seems just counterproductive. Batman is almost in his retirement age and Superman already dies. This could have almost been the last movie in the series.

I have mixed feelings about it. I'm basically a massive Snyder fan but I really hated Man of Steel. As for BvS, I spent a good time in the theatre, I wasn't bored, I felt it really worked pretty well but after a few days it left me a strange aftertaste, like a doubt. There are a few things I found were a bit confusing, particularly the dream sequences (how can Batman dream about Parademons without being aware of them, and since when does he have prophetic visions anyway?) and the fact that the heroes gathering planned for JLA seemed a bit rushed (Batman has never been much of a team player and now he is the one who wants to create a team?). In the end I guess I am still a bit worried about how this will all take shape as a cohesive universe. On the other hand it takes some build on: I liked the first MCU movies but it's not until it became a truly unified universe that I began to really trip on them. I don't see Marvel films or series as just films or series but as episodes in a much larger picture. Same with the DC films: so far for me it's one hit and one miss with the DCEU, so I'm still unsure about how I'm gonna enjoy the whole series. Overall I'm totally happy about the MCU and I honestly don't mind if the DCEU has a darker tone, but there's still a part of me that thinks WB doesn't have real love for the source material and that they don't really know what they're doing with the big picture. Let's see how Suicide Squad turns out...

kpowers said:

babynoz said:

I haven't seen anybody mention Wonder Woman, who I really liked because she was fierce and powerful in her own right, not overshadowed by the fellas. That heffa was baaaad...girl power!

I loved Wonder Woman in the movie and I thought she kicked ass. Honestly my favorite part in the movie is when Superman and Batman thought each other was with Wonder Woman. I'm looking forward to the Wonder Woman movie.

Wonder Woman was definitely one of the only decent things in this film. I'm glad she wasn't in it long enough for Snyder to completely ruin her character. He obviously doesn't know anything about Batman or Superman outside of Dark Knight Returns and Death of Superman!

It's not "Golden Raspberry" bad, although many seem to think it is. Maybe it'll "win" a few of those awards.

I just realized that a lot of it relied on the same themes and the same type of pacing as "The Watchmen", which I liked a lot myself. Then again, the plot of that one was much stronger.

novabrkr said:

It's not "Golden Raspberry" bad, although many seem to think it is. Maybe it'll "win" a few of those awards.

I just realized that a lot of it relied on the same themes and the same type of pacing as "The Watchmen", which I liked a lot myself. Then again, the plot of that one was much stronger.

I'd bet it's definitely going to win a few Razzies. Snyder definitely deserves to win worst director!

databank said:

the fact that the heroes gathering planned for JLA seemed a bit rushed (Batman has never been much of a team player and now he is the one who wants to create a team?)

Here is where Zack's genius needs to be appreciated. How many comics, cartoons, animated movies, live action TV and movies have we seen with this version of Batman??? I've seen it over and over for what seems like a zillion times, and now people criticize Zack for taking a new and completely different approach??? Wow.

JJ ABrams totally rehashed/copied Star Wars Episode IV, called it Force Awakens, and no one said a damn word about it. Critics loved it, fans loved it and it was the same ol' $h!t in a different year.

MoS and BvS:DoJ need to be appreciated like an "Elseworlds Comic," a different retelling of a long history of comic books, using these familiar characters, as well as new stories that stretch them to new heights and limits.

Man of Steel was an incredible Superman movie. Henry Cavill is the physical incarnate of this cartoon character, and both he and Ben knocked it out of the park in BvS, just as I expected they would!!!

"Zach Snyder" and "Genius" should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

We critcize him for ignoring the source material, and making these characters unrecognizable. It's fine to do something new with it, but at a certain point he deviated from the characters so much that they were no longer the ones we love.

And I'll also disagree that Man of Steel was an "incredible Superman movie". Sorry, but Superman should never be a broody, destructive douche-bag. That isn't Superman. Hell, I'd argue neither of these are good MOVIES, period! Outside of the way they treated the characters, even if these weren't Batman and Superman, I'd be noticing the giant plot holes, lack of motivation for the characters, bad CGI and the annoying villains. Snyder has proven he's little more than a second-rate Michael Bay.

TheBatman said:

databank said:

the fact that the heroes gathering planned for JLA seemed a bit rushed (Batman has never been much of a team player and now he is the one who wants to create a team?)

Here is where Zack's genius needs to be appreciated. How many comics, cartoons, animated movies, live action TV and movies have we seen with this version of Batman??? I've seen it over and over for what seems like a zillion times, and now people criticize Zack for taking a new and completely different approach??? Wow.

JJ ABrams totally rehashed/copied Star Wars Episode IV, called it Force Awakens, and no one said a damn word about it. Critics loved it, fans loved it and it was the same ol' $h!t in a different year.

MoS and BvS:DoJ need to be appreciated like an "Elseworlds Comic," a different retelling of a long history of comic books, using these familiar characters, as well as new stories that stretch them to new heights and limits.

Man of Steel was an incredible Superman movie. Henry Cavill is the physical incarnate of this cartoon character, and both he and Ben knocked it out of the park in BvS, just as I expected they would!!!

I don't know if it's genius but I certainly think he did a fine job. And your point about Abrams is well made.

I will take Zack's movies over that hot mess Superman Returns any day. That was the one where they cast that wimpy looking Routh guy and Superman became a baby-daddy....wtf?

I agree that Ben and Cavill were great but I already think that Ben Affleck is the greatest thing since sliced bread anyway,

JediMaster said:

"Zach Snyder" and "Genius" should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

I'm not on his payroll, so no harm no foul. Are his movies perfect? No, but who else has made a worthy Superman film? No one. I respect the old Christopher Reeve movies, but his Superman was quite weak in comparison.

We critcize him for ignoring the source material, and making these characters unrecognizable. It's fine to do something new with it, but at a certain point he deviated from the characters so much that they were no longer the ones we love.

As a life long Fan of both Superman and Batman... the way these characters are portrayed in these movies are above and beyond anything ever attempted before. So I will continue to appreciate their greatness. Henry Cavill IS the Superman I always read about in the comics. Ben Affleck IS the Batman I always read about in the comics. No attempt in the past, to bring these characters to real life has ever come close. Except possibly, the Nolan Trilogy.

And I'll also disagree that Man of Steel was an "incredible Superman movie". Sorry, but Superman should never be a broody, destructive douche-bag. That isn't Superman. Hell, I'd argue neither of these are good MOVIES, period! Outside of the way they treated the characters, even if these weren't Batman and Superman, I'd be noticing the giant plot holes, lack of motivation for the characters, bad CGI and the annoying villains. Snyder has proven he's little more than a second-rate Michael Bay.

I don't see Superman at all as you've described in these movies.

The few bad things I can say about BvS is: Jesse Eisenberg (even though he is a better Luthor than Hackman & Spacey combined), was really miscast here. He did not portray the Luthor of the comics, nor the animated series. Mercy Graves was also a wasted character. No where near as bad-ass as she should be.

Are these movies perfect? No. But are they taking a great, realistic approach to how they would be viewed in today's world? Yes.

[Edited 4/5/16 14:08pm]

Let's talk about Alfred. I admit to being a little rusty on my Bat-lore but I do not recall Alfred being Gotham City's version of McGiver down there in the Bat Cave? I know that he always assisted Bruce Wayne is his plans but I have never seen Alfred perform on this level before?

Somebody help me out here...