SeventeenDayze said:

Cerebus said:

Without reading this thread, or likely ever returning to it, I just want to know why this question would ONLY apply to women?

At what point is a guy an "old bachelor"? I had a convo with a woman who once lived in Manhattan for a decade and said the dating scene there is difficult because a lot of the men stay single until they are 45 or 50 and then they marry women who are 25, 26 years old. It seems that a woman who chooses not to be married by a certain age has to contend with the notion that there are men out there who will not date women their own age, for whatever reason, and then the woman should decide if it's worth lowering her standards if she cannot be alone. I am not sure if a man choosing to be alone is quite the same animal, so to speak, as a woman choosing/ending up alone.

dJJ said:

JustErin said:

And some children are abused by their parents, does that mean that all children are actually better off without them?

So which "broad statement" is more accurate, that they are better off with or without parents?

It's the same with partners, bottom line is there are more benefits being in a partnership than not being in one.

[Edited 10/4/13 11:38am]

A child has no choice, a child can't take care of oneself.

A mature person can. So, there is a huge difference.

And that comparison is very skew.

Not a very good argument.

It seems you think it's better to pair up, because of financial benefits, sharing responsebilities and other benefits.

I think those benefits don't weigh up when there is psychological or physical abuse apparent.

The question is not about choice or if one can take care of oneself or not.

It's simply whether women are better off single or not.

I suppose if one has only had terrible relationship after terrible relationship they would be completely ignorant to the fact that amazing relationships that are also psychologically beneficial do exist.

And I always have to ask, if one is having one terrible relationship after another, what is it about that person that attracts or is attracted to such dysfunction? There is only one common denominator in those relationships.

JustErin said:

dJJ said:

A child has no choice, a child can't take care of oneself.

A mature person can. So, there is a huge difference.

And that comparison is very skew.

Not a very good argument.

It seems you think it's better to pair up, because of financial benefits, sharing responsebilities and other benefits.

I think those benefits don't weigh up when there is psychological or physical abuse apparent.

The question is not about choice or if one can take care of oneself or not.

It's simply whether women are better off single or not.

I suppose if one has only had terrible relationship after terrible relationship they would be completely ignorant to the fact that amazing relationships that are also psychologically beneficial do exist.

And I always have to ask, if one is having one terrible relationship after another, what is it about that person that attracts or is attracted to such dysfunction? There is only one common denominator in those relationships.

You mean me?


Not all my relationships have been horrible. I have a lot of good memories of previous relationships. I am friends with most of my exes. Some I still see on a regular bases.

I don't regret that these relationships have ended, though.


It's commonly viewed that if a female does not choose to be in a long term relationship, there must be something wrong with her.

However, I question how healthy it is to stay in an unequal relationship. And, as statistics still show, being in a relationship is not that beneficial to women. It is for men though.

dJJ said:

JustErin said:

The question is not about choice or if one can take care of oneself or not.

It's simply whether women are better off single or not.

I suppose if one has only had terrible relationship after terrible relationship they would be completely ignorant to the fact that amazing relationships that are also psychologically beneficial do exist.

And I always have to ask, if one is having one terrible relationship after another, what is it about that person that attracts or is attracted to such dysfunction? There is only one common denominator in those relationships.

You mean me?


Not all my relationships have been horrible. I have a lot of good memories of previous relationships. I am friends with most of my exes. Some I still see on a regular bases.

I don't regret that these relationships have ended, though.


It's commonly viewed that if a female does not choose to be in a long term relationship, there must be something wrong with her.

However, I question how healthy it is to stay in an unequal relationship. And, as statistics still show, being in a relationship is not that beneficial to women. It is for men though.

Did I say you? I am always speaking in general terms.

It is commonly viewed that if a person continuously fails at relationships that they need to take a good hard look at themselves as to why they keep failing.

Seriously, why the fuck do you keep talking about staying in unequal relationships? It makes zero sense to keep saying this, unless you feel that EVERY SINGLE relationship is unequal.

What statistics are you talking about? Please show the the statistics that proves that "being in a relationship is not that beneficial to women" and the statistic that proves that it is for men.

tinaz said:

Why is abuse even being discussed? To me the thread title is just a broad statement.. Not, lets pick it apart... Of course your better off single if you are in an abusive relationships... Its just a simple question...

Exactly.

The only reason I can think it is being brought up again and again is because they think all relationships are abusive...but then again, someone threw in a statistic that 25% of relationships are abusive towards women...that's hardly a case to prove that all relationships are not beneficial to women.

JustErin said:

dJJ said:

You mean me?


Not all my relationships have been horrible. I have a lot of good memories of previous relationships. I am friends with most of my exes. Some I still see on a regular bases.

I don't regret that these relationships have ended, though.


It's commonly viewed that if a female does not choose to be in a long term relationship, there must be something wrong with her.

However, I question how healthy it is to stay in an unequal relationship. And, as statistics still show, being in a relationship is not that beneficial to women. It is for men though.

Did I say you? I am always speaking in general terms.

It is commonly viewed that if a person continuously fails at relationships that they need to take a good hard look at themselves as to why they keep failing.

Seriously, why the fuck do you keep talking about staying in unequal relationships? It makes zero sense to keep saying this, unless you feel that EVERY SINGLE relationship is unequal.

What statistics are you talking about? Please show the the statistics that proves that "being in a relationship is not that beneficial to women" and the statistic that proves that it is for men.

I think that is a left over from the last century that will fade in due time.


Because, for a woman's point of view, it is to her benefit to not marry.
So, I wonder why it is frowned upon, when somebody is not in a relationship and why that is considered a failure.

I would rather ask many women who stay in a marriage/ long term relationship to take a good look at themselves and ask why they keep failing themselves.

BTW, if you really are interested, I highly recommend you to read "The war on women" and any sequeals by other authors.

Quick copy past from Wikepedia:


While marriage does increase the socioeconomic status of women, men reap many benefits from this type of living arrangement. For instance, while many women manage a household's finances, men generally retain control of the money.^[1] As a result, when heterosexual couples divorce, women are much less affluent and a large percentage of divorced, single women fall below poverty lines. Men also obtain greater mental health benefits from marriage than do women and report greater marital satisfaction than do women.^[2] The greater marital satisfaction men report is likely the result of the benefits they receive from marriage - companionship and household labor - while not having to sacrifice occupational success or career advancement.^[3] Married women, on the other hand, do often have to sacrifice occupational success or career advancement, leading to many highly skilled women leaving the workforce.^[4] Many of these women leave because the work environment does not allow for a balance between work and family; the lack of flexible work options for highly skilled women results in many of them "opting out" of the workforce, which is not a problem for men.^[4] Married women also have higher rates of mental illness than do single, widowed, and divorced women.^[5] Women who marry at younger ages generally have lower educational attainment (though the causal direction here goes both ways), have more kids, and are also more dependent on their husbands financially.^6]

In short, the benefits of marriage tend to favor men over women.

1. ↑ Burgoyne, Carole B., Victoria Clarke, Janet Reibstein, and Anne Edmunds. “‘All my worldly goods I share with you’? Managing money at the transition to heterosexual marriage..” Sociological Review 54, no. 4 (November 2006): 619-637.
2. Jump up↑ Fowers, Blaine J. “His and Her Marriage: A Multivariate Study of Gender and Marital Satisfaction..” Sex Roles 24, no. 3/4 (February 1991): 209-221.
3. Jump up↑ Horwitz, Allan V., and Helene Raskin White. “Becoming Married, Depression, and Alcohol Problems Among Young Adults..” Journal of Health & Social Behavior 32, no. 3 (1991): 221-237.
4. ↑ ^{Jump up to:a b} stone, pamela. 2007. “the rhetoric and reality of “opting out”.” Contexts 6:14-19.
5. Jump up↑ Gove, Walter R. “The Relationship Between Sex Roles, Marital Status, and Mental Illness..” Social Forces 51, no. 1 (1972): 34-44.
6. Jump up↑ Susheela Singh and Renee Samara, “Early Marriage Among Women in Developing Countries,” December 1996, http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/2214896.pdf

There hasn't been done solid research though. And as times are changing, research will allways be far behind of the game.

http://blogs.psychcentral...read-this/

dJJ said:

JustErin said:

Did I say you? I am always speaking in general terms.

It is commonly viewed that if a person continuously fails at relationships that they need to take a good hard look at themselves as to why they keep failing.

Seriously, why the fuck do you keep talking about staying in unequal relationships? It makes zero sense to keep saying this, unless you feel that EVERY SINGLE relationship is unequal.

What statistics are you talking about? Please show the the statistics that proves that "being in a relationship is not that beneficial to women" and the statistic that proves that it is for men.

I think that is a left over from the last century that will fade in due time.


Because, for a woman's point of view, it is to her benefit to not marry.
So, I wonder why it is frowned upon, when somebody is not in a relationship and why that is considered a failure.

I would rather ask many women who stay in a marriage/ long term relationship to take a good look at themselves and ask why they keep failing themselves.

BTW, if you really are interested, I highly recommend you to read "The war on women" and any sequeals by other authors.

Quick copy past from Wikepedia:


While marriage does increase the socioeconomic status of women, men reap many benefits from this type of living arrangement. For instance, while many women manage a household's finances, men generally retain control of the money.^[1] As a result, when heterosexual couples divorce, women are much less affluent and a large percentage of divorced, single women fall below poverty lines. Men also obtain greater mental health benefits from marriage than do women and report greater marital satisfaction than do women.^[2] The greater marital satisfaction men report is likely the result of the benefits they receive from marriage - companionship and household labor - while not having to sacrifice occupational success or career advancement.^[3] Married women, on the other hand, do often have to sacrifice occupational success or career advancement, leading to many highly skilled women leaving the workforce.^[4] Many of these women leave because the work environment does not allow for a balance between work and family; the lack of flexible work options for highly skilled women results in many of them "opting out" of the workforce, which is not a problem for men.^[4] Married women also have higher rates of mental illness than do single, widowed, and divorced women.^[5] Women who marry at younger ages generally have lower educational attainment (though the causal direction here goes both ways), have more kids, and are also more dependent on their husbands financially.^6]

In short, the benefits of marriage tend to favor men over women.

1. ↑ Burgoyne, Carole B., Victoria Clarke, Janet Reibstein, and Anne Edmunds. “‘All my worldly goods I share with you’? Managing money at the transition to heterosexual marriage..” Sociological Review 54, no. 4 (November 2006): 619-637.
2. Jump up↑ Fowers, Blaine J. “His and Her Marriage: A Multivariate Study of Gender and Marital Satisfaction..” Sex Roles 24, no. 3/4 (February 1991): 209-221.
3. Jump up↑ Horwitz, Allan V., and Helene Raskin White. “Becoming Married, Depression, and Alcohol Problems Among Young Adults..” Journal of Health & Social Behavior 32, no. 3 (1991): 221-237.
4. ↑ ^{Jump up to:a b} stone, pamela. 2007. “the rhetoric and reality of “opting out”.” Contexts 6:14-19.
5. Jump up↑ Gove, Walter R. “The Relationship Between Sex Roles, Marital Status, and Mental Illness..” Social Forces 51, no. 1 (1972): 34-44.
6. Jump up↑ Susheela Singh and Renee Samara, “Early Marriage Among Women in Developing Countries,” December 1996, http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/2214896.pdf

There hasn't been done solid research though. And as times are changing, research will allways be far behind of the game.

http://blogs.psychcentral...read-this/

You lost me on your first response above.

So there are no statistics, only opinion.

I will read the book you recommended.

JustErin said:

dJJ said:

You lost me on your first response above.

So there are no statistics, only opinion.

I will read the book you recommended.

Yes, of course there is not one black and white easy answer that fits all.

And it's true that for many people a marriage/long relationship does work out for them.

However, I strongly belief that since marriage is not pivotal for survival anymore, it's worthwhile to be pragmatic and question if it really is that good, for women and/or men.

I would love to hear back from you what you think of The War Against Women

dJJ said:

JustErin said:

You lost me on your first response above.

So there are no statistics, only opinion.

I will read the book you recommended.

Yes, of course there is not one black and white easy answer that fits all.

And it's true that for many people a marriage/long relationship does work out for them.

However, I strongly belief that since marriage is not pivotal for survival anymore, it's worthwhile to be pragmatic and question if it really is that good, for women and/or men.

I would love to hear back from you what you think of The War Against Women

I never once made the argument for marriage either way in this thread. I was talking about relationships, not marriage.

And for many happily married people, marriage provides many more benefits than simply survival.

it was brought up because i responded to a general statement that all women are better off in relationships.

*

my post countered that assertion on a number of levels, one of which was the domestic abuse stats. one in four women are definitely not better off in a relationship.

*

it was just one reason on my list of reasons why women are better off single .

[Edited 10/7/13 10:03am]

i think if i had never met my husband, i would of most likely remained single. and i would of been okay with that. i love to travel, so i'm pretty sure i would of felt happy seeing the world.

uniden said:

i think if i had never met my husband, i would of most likely remained single. and i would of been okay with that. i love to travel, so i'm pretty sure i would of felt happy seeing the world.

side note: i'm single and I've always found it to be quite expensive to travel on my own. There are not many travel situations that don't involve "single supplements" which can be time and a half what the posted price is for double occupancy. This is especially true for situations where they'd normally be ideal for singles, such as cruises, tour packages, resorts.

I feel that travel would be much easier without *needing* to find someone to go with all the time or paying double. Of course, if your partner doesn't like to travel, that's another issue -- but I'm going with best case scenario...like I thought this thread was about!

Uhope said:

uniden said:

i think if i had never met my husband, i would of most likely remained single. and i would of been okay with that. i love to travel, so i'm pretty sure i would of felt happy seeing the world.

side note: i'm single and I've always found it to be quite expensive to travel on my own. There are not many travel situations that don't involve "single supplements" which can be time and a half what the posted price is for double occupancy. This is especially true for situations where they'd normally be ideal for singles, such as cruises, tour packages, resorts.

I feel that travel would be much easier without *needing* to find someone to go with all the time or paying double. Of course, if your partner doesn't like to travel, that's another issue -- but I'm going with best case scenario...like I thought this thread was about!

Would you be interested in this website? http://easynest.com/

sexton said:

Uhope said:

side note: i'm single and I've always found it to be quite expensive to travel on my own. There are not many travel situations that don't involve "single supplements" which can be time and a half what the posted price is for double occupancy. This is especially true for situations where they'd normally be ideal for singles, such as cruises, tour packages, resorts.

I feel that travel would be much easier without *needing* to find someone to go with all the time or paying double. Of course, if your partner doesn't like to travel, that's another issue -- but I'm going with best case scenario...like I thought this thread was about!

Would you be interested in this website? http://easynest.com/

Oooh! I will look into it. It's just that for the most part, I'd *rather* travel on my own rather than share accommodations. I know most people are nice...I'm just not as comfy needing to room with others. Travel doesn't have to be social for me - I just wanna go where I wanna go.

The one time I was able to take a cruise on my own (Carnival did away with the single supplement back in 2002 in the wake of 9/11 to encourage travelers), it was GREAT to have my own room, go to buffet or not, go to bed if I was sleepy and not hear, "c'mon, we're on a cruise!!!", sit and read on the deck all day without having to answer to anyone.

I like my "getaways" to REALLY be a "get-away".

[Edited 10/7/13 11:07am]

Article about women in relationships:

http://www.scientificamer...R_20130626

dJJ said:

Article about women in relationships:

http://www.scientificamer...R_20130626

Correction, that is an article about women in abusive relationships.

Sometimes I think if a person doesn't have a successful string of relationships, it doesn't always mean that they are at fault. I made the choice in my early 20s (after a breakup) that I was not going to go about "dating" in the traditional way and wanted to do a lot more with my life. I have only had one serious relationship in my life (in my 30s now) and for the most part, I don't regret it. When I meet guys and they ask me when my last "relationship" was, I usually answer by telling them that it takes a lot for me to consider my time with a guy a relationship and I just usually tell them about the other things that I have done instead of dating.

I have had people in the past tell me that I should at least do "dating lite" which for the most part means having male friends that I could be non-sexual with and learn how to interact with them a certain way. Frankly, I thought that approach is/was bullshit and didn't want to find myself friends with a guy who either isn't attracted to me and finds himself with someone else, or the playing field isn't level because he might actually like me while he's unaware that he's on the other end of an experiment until Mr. Right comes along.

There are moments when I wonder if I could have done things differently but I don't always think that everyone is meant to be with someone. I just have other moments when I feel like the option of having marriage and kids is fading away but there's no "Plan B" out there for women who find themselves in this situation. I am glad that I am not married to a loser but I think for a number of reasons men are intimiated by my strong sense of self-reliance. Even when I "need" a guy, they are scared because maybe they think it's just an act. I don't get it.....

This thread is so weird.

No one has said that choosing to be single is bad or wrong or means something is wrong with you.

No one has made any claim that an abusive relationship is better than being single.

What has been said is:

Not all relationships are abusive or counter-productive for women, and the benefits of having a partner out weigh the benefits of going through life alone - for many reasons

If you are only letting men into your life that abuse or hurt you, you should probably do a little soul searching to try and find out why that is. It's not your job to try and change or figure out others, it's your job to figure out you.

I am always a million times happier when I am in a relationship than when I am not .

Serious said:

I am always a million times happier when I am in a relationship than when I am not .

Another thing is that if you're not paired up by a certain age, people think you're not into men. I mean, don't people realize that most guys out there who are single past a certain age are single for a reason? The odds are clearly in their favor NOT to be single by a certain age, compared to women.

JustErin said:

dJJ said:

Article about women in relationships:

http://www.scientificamer...R_20130626

Correction, that is an article about women in abusive relationships.

which was posted in direct response to the thread topic which is: Women: Are we better off single?

XxAxX said:

Uhope said:

XxAxX said:

which was posted in direct response to the thread topic which is: Women: Are we better off single?

So the answer is "no" if relationship is bad/abusive.

Which is shockingly common.

And "yes" if relationship is good/fulfilling.

Indeed.

Have I missed anything?

Nope

sadly, things are actually getting worse for young women these days, which in my opinion, is why it's time for women to acknowledge that the bridal and/or 'relationship' path is not strewn with roses, but rather with bloodstains for that one in four unlucky woman who goes into a relationship expecting love, and receives battery and abuse.

*

i understand that some of us on this thread feel this input is not relevant, but imo it is because there is a lot of mythology directed at how women need men, need to be "not single". in order to teach our female children how to be SAFE and how to value SAFETY over being "in a relationship" we need to promote awareness of this issue

Forced sexual contact common among teens, study suggests

from: http://www.nbcnews.com/he...1135002119 hours ago

From a hastily forced kiss to outright rape, violent or at least coerced sexual contact may be worryingly common among teens and young adults, researchers reported Monday.They found 9 percent of youths aged 14 to 21 admitted to some kind of forced sexual contact, using tactics from guilt to threats and actual physical force. *Half blamed their victims.Four percent of the more than 1,000 young men and women surveyed admitted to having raped someone else, the researchers report in the American Medical Association journal JAMA Pediatrics.

*

But most who tried or completed rape said they didn’t use physical force – 63 percent of those who said they had forced someone to have sex against their will said they used guilt as their main tactic, while 32 percent said they used arguments and other verbal pressure. And the problem behavior tends to really begin at around age 16, said Michele Ybarra of the Center for Innovative Public Health Research in San Clemente, California and Kimberly Mitchell of the University of New Hampshire.

*

Ybarra says the study doesn’t paint the whole picture and she says the findings should encourage other researchers to dig a little deeper into questions about sexual behavior in the teen years, and whether it’s possible to predict and even prevent sexual violence.What is clear is that many teens are not getting the message that ‘no’ means no, she said.“What we wanted to find was the intent to get somebody to do something sexually when they knew the person did not want to do it,” Ybarra said in a telephone interview.It’s hard to know just how common the problem really is, or how representative the teens and young adults in the survey are of the whole population.

*

They’d all been taking part in a broader survey of teen use of violent media that started in 2006, when most were about 12, Ybarra and Mitchell say.“We know that adolescence is an important time when these types of behavior emerge,” Ybarra said.The questions are very detailed and do not include words such as “rape”.

*

The teens were asked questions such as “In the last 12 months, how often have you kissed, touched, or done anything sexual with another person when that person did not want you to?”The teens were allowed to answer the questions online so they could do so in privacy – the hope being that they would answer more honestly than if they feared they were being monitored. Harris interactive helped conduct the poll; the study was paid for by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

*

Parents had to give their permission for the teens to take part, so that limited how many responded, Ybarra notes. Nonetheless, the results were startling.“Nine percent of youths reported some type of sexual violence perpetration in their lifetime: 8 percent kissed, touched, or made someone else do something sexual when the youth knew the other person did not want to (ie, forced sexual contact); 3 percent got someone to give into sex when he or she knew the other person did not want to have sex; 3 percent attempted but were not able to force someone to have sex (ie, attempted rape); and 2 percent forced someone to have sex with him or her (ie, completed rape).” Youths who reported seeing more violent sex online, in magazines, on television or at the movies were more likely to commit violent sexual acts.

*

“It’s a marker for concern,” Ybarra said.Other studies have shown that between 64 percent and 96 percent of rapes in the United States never get reported to authorities, and that between 6 percent and 15 percent of men of mostly college age admit to having committed acts that meet the legal definition of rape.Ybarra said the findings show a lot more effort is needed to prevent sexual assaults. “We, as a society, need to take more responsibility to identify perpetrators and implement programs in schools,” she said. Parents need to teach kids about healthy sex, young people need to speak up when friends describe either being victims or perpetrators of forced sex and schools need more programs to help teach youngsters about acceptable behavior, she says.

*

Scott Berkowitz, CEO of the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network (RAINN), says rapists tend to start their violent behavior in their teens. “Because so few cases are ever reported to police and successfully prosecuted, they tend to keep going,” Berkowitz said in a telephone interview.And teens are by far the most vulnerable age group to being attacks. “Nearly half of all victims in the country are under 18 when they are victimized, so this is quite common among youth,” Berkowitz said

[Edited 10/8/13 9:01am]

How did this turn into a discussion about abuse and rape ?

We are NOT better off single since we tend to learn from each other to fix ourselves.