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Reply #450 posted 01/05/20 4:23am

LoveGalore

PeggyO said:

Phase3 said:

lavendardrummachine said:

Scrutinizing those words does not prove it but when you add a massive dose of Fentanyl, things change.

And scrutinizing the words helps, at least a little, to understand what would lead what most would call an intelligent man to dip from the bottle ever again. His indignation, which needed to be "calmed dowwn" by Judith, and insistance that he would've woken up (lol) is really telling.

.

He's either really ignorant, arrogant, and naive... Or he was lying. For a man who spent decades preaching "the truth" to be caught in such obvious lies is wild to me. Why did he look at doctors so adversarial? I don't get it. They're saving your life, what's your problem. Do you not want to live?

.

Oh. Hmm. Considering his conversation earlier that night? Maybe he didn't.

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Reply #451 posted 01/05/20 1:45pm

lavendardrumma
chine

Phase3 said:

I think he knew his time was very limited.Because he was reaching out to lots of people he wasn't at peace with


It's definitely something to consider, and I think we all get that this is a possiblity....but also the man wasn't a spring chicken, and he'd started hanging around 19 year olds.


But we also know the idea that he didn't reach out to people from his past is a fan misunderstanding. After his death, we heard similar stories from all but a few that they re-conected with him in a way that was personable and gave old friends some peace. He even brought Morris and Sheila back into his orbit before 2008, before the hip surgery and another rumored OD. Of course, business got in the way again.

So this was another round of reaching out. It's something he did. Us fans didn't have a clue.

He also started using social media, and becoming more self aware. There are other signs (with interviews) he realized talking about his history was a form of entertainement too. We know he used to like talking on the phone for hours at a time.... about something.

You don't start a project writing a book if you think you're dying in 6 months. Hiring a writer and working on the first chapter, then peacing out with suicide isn't typical either. It's possible he knew he didn't have long on the planet by a premonition though, or just feeling lousy...but that still speaks to a person losing control, not making a conscious controlled choice about planning life or death. It could mean he stopped caring about whether he lived, but again, that doesn't correspond with other efforts he made to celebrate his life....which shouldn't be assumed to be someone writing their own obituary.

He was also a spiritual guy and his health was going sideways. We can see that. What caused it, pain, pills, depression, the hoop cough, just getting older, not enough purple dye in his clothing, whatever, it doesn't change that fact. We do know he was on dangerous pills, and too much of them.



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Reply #452 posted 01/05/20 1:50pm

lavendardrumma
chine

PeggyO said:

Scrutinizing those words does not prove it but when you add a massive dose of Fentanyl, things change.


Does it? Purposeful suicide by Fetanyl is a loaded scenario. Suicide by drug overdose requires some details.

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Reply #453 posted 01/05/20 1:58pm

lavendardrumma
chine

LoveGalore said:

PeggyO said:

Scrutinizing those words does not prove it but when you add a massive dose of Fentanyl, things change.

And scrutinizing the words helps, at least a little, to understand what would lead what most would call an intelligent man to dip from the bottle ever again. His indignation, which needed to be "calmed dowwn" by Judith, and insistance that he would've woken up (lol) is really telling.


Judith's quote is "keeping him calm". Since you're scruntizing words, use her actual words.

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Reply #454 posted 01/05/20 2:34pm

LoveGalore

lavendardrummachine said:



LoveGalore said:



PeggyO said:




Scrutinizing those words does not prove it but when you add a massive dose of Fentanyl, things change.



And scrutinizing the words helps, at least a little, to understand what would lead what most would call an intelligent man to dip from the bottle ever again. His indignation, which needed to be "calmed dowwn" by Judith, and insistance that he would've woken up (lol) is really telling.




Judith's quote is "keeping him calm". Since you're scruntizing words, use her actual words.



[Flame snip - luv4u]
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Reply #455 posted 01/05/20 6:55pm

rednblue

lavendardrummachine said:



Phase3 said:


I think he knew his time was very limited.Because he was reaching out to lots of people he wasn't at peace with


It's definitely something to consider, and I think we all get that this is a possiblity....but also the man wasn't a spring chicken, and he'd started hanging around 19 year olds.



But we also know the idea that he didn't reach out to people from his past is a fan misunderstanding. After his death, we heard similar stories from all but a few that they re-conected with him in a way that was personable and gave old friends some peace. He even brought Morris and Sheila back into his orbit before 2008, before the hip surgery and another rumored OD. Of course, business got in the way again.

So this was another round of reaching out. It's something he did. Us fans didn't have a clue.

He also started using social media, and becoming more self aware. There are other signs (with interviews) he realized talking about his history was a form of entertainement too. We know he used to like talking on the phone for hours at a time.... about something.

You don't start a project writing a book if you think you're dying in 6 months. Hiring a writer and working on the first chapter, then peacing out with suicide isn't typical either. It's possible he knew he didn't have long on the planet by a premonition though, or just feeling lousy...but that still speaks to a person losing control, not making a conscious controlled choice about planning life or death. It could mean he stopped caring about whether he lived, but again, that doesn't correspond with other efforts he made to celebrate his life....which shouldn't be assumed to be someone writing their own obituary.

He was also a spiritual guy and his health was going sideways. We can see that. What caused it, pain, pills, depression, the hoop cough, just getting older, not enough purple dye in his clothing, whatever, it doesn't change that fact. We do know he was on dangerous pills, and too much of them.






Really appreciate this post. Thank you!
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Reply #456 posted 01/05/20 8:14pm

Phase3

Another thing that I just remembered is Prince's last Twitter avatar of his face with a tear coming down from his closed eyes
Does anyone remember how long prince had that particular avatar?
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Reply #457 posted 01/05/20 11:47pm

daingermouz202
0

authorbest said:



PeggyO said:




ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:


The real mystery is P had hydrocodone and oxycodone in his urine and fentanyl in his blood.

At some point that night he took legit script drugs but later decided to take the street drugs.

There were 10 pills left from the oxy script he got from Dr. S in his suitcase by his bed.

He obviously knew the street drugs were stronger, right?





I am curious, do you mean the Fentanyl found in his blood after his death?



I was thinking that he was taking legit drugs through the week (April 15-20) to ward off withdrawal.


(though it was not too effective)



The fact that he did not take the counterfeit pills (Fent-laced) during the week showed me he knew the difference.



IMO, yes he knew the counterfeit pills were stronger than the oxy in the suitcase.






I don't know if I'm persona non grata around here or not.



If I have read the police files numerous times. Read information on leaked toxicology information. Viewed all the photographs. Immersed myself in Prince's artistic output and those of others associated with him and not assoicated with him. Read books of associates. Read written interviews and video and audio interviews. After all that, I believe I am fairly certian of my OPINION, that Prince's death was a suicide. I believe my opionion is based in fact based on evidence in the police file and other items I mention above.



Is this classified as a conspiracy theory?



The moderator does not define what is considered a conspiracy theory.



My Opinion:



Peggy O. is right. He knew the difference between the pills.



Prince did not OD after the airplane incident from Friday to Wednesday even though he had and abundance of Fentanyl as his disposal. Prince had no Fentanyl in his system when giving blood and urine samples to Dr. S. the evening before his death because tests of the blood and urine show there was no Fentanyl.



Yet only a few hours later he dies with 67.8 mcg of Fentanyl in his blood, 435 mcg of Fentanyl in his liver and 14,000 mcg of Fentanyl in his stomach. Notes in the police file that states that the Medical Examiner told police there was "no doubt" that the Fentanyl was ingested "by mouth in pill form".



Can you read the writing on the wall?



Prince knew exactly what he was doing. He knew he was taking Fentanyl. He knew how much Fentanyl he was taking. And he knew what the outcome would be in taking that much Fentanyl.



Here is a link to leaked toxicology information. This article says Fentanyl was in milligrams. I believe that is a wrong calibration as Fentanyl being so powerful in small amounts is calculated in mcg. (However, if it was truely milligrams than that is so large an amount that it is almost beyond belief.)



I estimate that Prince took at least 30 pills and maybe even close to 50 pills in a very short period of time. That is not a mistake. That is not an accident. That is intent.



https://kstp.com/medical/...h/4491091/







I've always thought his death was a suicide. Especially after hearing about that strange statement about giving it a few days and not to waste your prayers. Thats a view imo of his intentions.
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Reply #458 posted 01/06/20 8:25am

Galaxy

He made sure he died on the 21st of April
It was suicide.
He didn't like showing weakness he was always in control and made sure he had full control over his death and the amount of fentanyl he had taken was to make sure nothing can save him.
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Reply #459 posted 01/06/20 8:28am

rednblue

iamafan said:

rednblue said:


One quick note:

There's documented concern about level of opiate use, concern that in time frame goes back many years.

NOT to say you were in any way denying this, but just noting that some people with substance use concerns perform amazingly.

Still, substance use conditions can create and/or contribute to additional health issues, and such additional health issues can become more severe over time.

[Edited 12/26/19 11:08am]

Oh I’m not denying prior drug use, I’m just noting that there seemed to be a drastic change in the year leading to his death. I’m guessing he was either sick or the addiction got out of control. (Or both). I have no idea what to believe regarding how far back his drug use started- I think MT said he was using when they were married. Who knows. Someone else mentioned he’d have his affairs in order if it were suicide. Not sure I agree as it may not have been super premeditated. Who knows also if there was a note or not given the amount of cleaning up that was done (in my opinion). Not to mention that those that are dealing with substance abuse don’t always think rationally like others might. I mean, who would’ve ever thought someone in his position wouldn’t have a will at any age, not just at the age of 57? [Edited 12/26/19 15:27pm] [Edited 12/26/19 15:28pm] [Edited 12/26/19 15:29pm]



As to suicide in general, yes that it may not be "super premeditated."

For example, as noted before and interacting with questions of premeditation, while depressive episodes involve much significant pain, they don't consist of a "single" mood state that is absolutely unchanging in quality and intensity. An internal state that makes for a suicide attempt in one day/hour doesn't mean that has to be the case in the next day/hour.

As to a will, while some say that there had been wills in place in the past, others describe instances of being rebuffed when raising the subject. Obviously, all can be true.

Yes, too, to the bolded.

Also, to add to the bolded possibilites of what may have made for a change, there was the state of the national (U.S.) situation connected to fentanyl.

And as also noted before, addiction can cause and/or worsen other health conditions.

[Edited 1/6/20 8:51am]

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Reply #460 posted 01/06/20 9:05am

PeggyO

rednblue said:

iamafan said:

rednblue said: Oh I’m not denying prior drug use, I’m just noting that there seemed to be a drastic change in the year leading to his death. I’m guessing he was either sick or the addiction got out of control. (Or both). I have no idea what to believe regarding how far back his drug use started- I think MT said he was using when they were married. Who knows. Someone else mentioned he’d have his affairs in order if it were suicide. Not sure I agree as it may not have been super premeditated. Who knows also if there was a note or not given the amount of cleaning up that was done (in my opinion). Not to mention that those that are dealing with substance abuse don’t always think rationally like others might. I mean, who would’ve ever thought someone in his position wouldn’t have a will at any age, not just at the age of 57? [Edited 12/26/19 15:27pm] [Edited 12/26/19 15:28pm] [Edited 12/26/19 15:29pm]



As to suicide in general, yes that it may not be "super premeditated."

For example, as noted before and interacting with questions of premeditation, while depressive episodes involve much significant pain, they don't consist of a "single" mood state that is absolutely unchanging in quality and intensity. An internal state that makes for a suicide attempt in one day/hour doesn't mean that has to be the case in the next day/hour.

As to a will, while some say that there had been wills in place in the past, others describe instances of being rebuffed when raising the subject. Obviously, all can be true.

Yes, too, to the bolded.

Also, to add to the bolded possibilites of what may have made for a change, there was the state of the national (U.S.) situation connected to fentanyl.

And as also noted before, addiction can cause and/or worsen other health conditions.

[Edited 1/6/20 8:51am]

I also don't think it was super-premeditated. The week after Moline must have been very taxing with damage control, trying to regulate after the Narcan, perhaps being quite sick,

feeling as though he would have to answer to the public/fans for drug use etc.

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Reply #461 posted 01/06/20 9:18am

rednblue

PeggyO said:

rednblue said:



As to suicide in general, yes that it may not be "super premeditated."

For example, as noted before and interacting with questions of premeditation, while depressive episodes involve much significant pain, they don't consist of a "single" mood state that is absolutely unchanging in quality and intensity. An internal state that makes for a suicide attempt in one day/hour doesn't mean that has to be the case in the next day/hour.

As to a will, while some say that there had been wills in place in the past, others describe instances of being rebuffed when raising the subject. Obviously, all can be true.

Yes, too, to the bolded.

Also, to add to the bolded possibilites of what may have made for a change, there was the state of the national (U.S.) situation connected to fentanyl.

And as also noted before, addiction can cause and/or worsen other health conditions.

[Edited 1/6/20 8:51am]

I also don't think it was super-premeditated. The week after Moline must have been very taxing with damage control, trying to regulate after the Narcan, perhaps being quite sick,

feeling as though he would have to answer to the public/fans for drug use etc.



What a harsh situation. Just awful. sad

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Reply #462 posted 01/06/20 9:27am

LoveGalore

PeggyO said:

rednblue said:



As to suicide in general, yes that it may not be "super premeditated."

For example, as noted before and interacting with questions of premeditation, while depressive episodes involve much significant pain, they don't consist of a "single" mood state that is absolutely unchanging in quality and intensity. An internal state that makes for a suicide attempt in one day/hour doesn't mean that has to be the case in the next day/hour.

As to a will, while some say that there had been wills in place in the past, others describe instances of being rebuffed when raising the subject. Obviously, all can be true.

Yes, too, to the bolded.

Also, to add to the bolded possibilites of what may have made for a change, there was the state of the national (U.S.) situation connected to fentanyl.

And as also noted before, addiction can cause and/or worsen other health conditions.

[Edited 1/6/20 8:51am]

I also don't think it was super-premeditated. The week after Moline must have been very taxing with damage control, trying to regulate after the Narcan, perhaps being quite sick,

feeling as though he would have to answer to the public/fans for drug use etc.

I guess it depends on what one means when they say super premeditated.

.

Like, was he planning it since September '15? Probably not would be my guess. Was he coming to terms with the notion that he was over it all weeks in advanced? Quite possibly. Did he know by the time he was doing the ATL shows? I have no doubt that if he killed himself, he knew he was gonna do it by then.

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Reply #463 posted 01/06/20 9:43am

rednblue

/.

[Edited 1/6/20 10:44am]

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Reply #464 posted 01/06/20 10:43am

rednblue

rednblue said:

LoveGalore said:

I guess it depends on what one means when they say super premeditated.

.

Like, was he planning it since September '15? Probably not would be my guess. Was he coming to terms with the notion that he was over it all weeks in advanced? Quite possibly. Did he know by the time he was doing the ATL shows? I have no doubt that if he killed himself, he knew he was gonna do it by then.



Great point about how "premeditated" can describe such a wide range of things.

Also (and sorry to sound like a broken record), we know that (as with ideation in general) thoughts related to premeditation may not be constant. They may vary (over large and small time frames) in content and intensity.

On a different subject, the idea of willingness to be somewhat "reckless" in life (obviously not one in the same with wishing/intending to injure oneself) was alluded to earlier. Exactly what rises to the level of being "reckless" in life obviously comes down to individual opinion. But as a general concept, many describe having been more risk averse in some periods of life than in others. I've known people who decided to stop or limit things like sky diving and motorcycle riding in reaction to a relationship with a partner or the birth of a child.

Though when it comes to cases of trying to alleviate significant pain, I'm not sure "reckless" is ever a reasonable word. I'm starting to wander, so I'll stop here.

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Reply #465 posted 01/06/20 12:34pm

bondno9

avatar

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

Is it where the booth is at?



Yes, the booths are in the dinette area downstairs.

Yes, the booths downstaris which were caddy-corner to the elevator. Almost four years later and something about that scene still rubs me the wrong way. Its oodd because the sunglasses (and I believe a set of keys ... have to review photo again) were placed on the corner away from the food. You would expect the sunglasses to have been directly next to the food. A person sits down and then places their eyeglasses/sunglasses next to them. Also, I don't recall any silverware being near the food. Just takeout containers and some sauce. Did P mean to eat the food? or was someone else at Paisely with him the eve of April 20th? Was P seated in the booth (side of sunglasses) and someone else was seated (side of food). Hence, seated face to face? I'm still working on my hypothesis of his demise and it's not inclusive of suicide.

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Reply #466 posted 01/06/20 12:39pm

LoveGalore

rednblue said:

rednblue said:



Great point about how "premeditated" can describe such a wide range of things.

Also (and sorry to sound like a broken record), we know that (as with ideation in general) thoughts related to premeditation may not be constant. They may vary (over large and small time frames) in content and intensity.

On a different subject, the idea of willingness to be somewhat "reckless" in life (obviously not one in the same with wishing/intending to injure oneself) was alluded to earlier. Exactly what rises to the level of being "reckless" in life obviously comes down to individual opinion. But as a general concept, many describe having been more risk averse in some periods of life than in others. I've known people who decided to stop or limit things like sky diving and motorcycle riding in reaction to a relationship with a partner or the birth of a child.

Though when it comes to cases of trying to alleviate significant pain, I'm not sure "reckless" is ever a reasonable word. I'm starting to wander, so I'll stop here.

I think that the things people mention as ongoing projects not indicative of a suicidal man are the sorts of projects someone begins when trying to convince themselves they're not suicidal. If that makes sense. Things to reinvigorate someone. Getting back to basics and doing a piano tour like he always wanted to and that his fans wanted (he mentioned not knowing what he was gonna play cuz he won't have a band which seems exciting). Writing a book with someone, where he gets the opportunity to discuss all the meaningful things in his life with someone who was by no means a lifelong Prince aficionado.

.

Things that would pull a person above water just enough to not be really depressed and irritated by his ongoing health issues, ya know?

.

I've said this before, but I reckon that if it were difficult for me to consider Prince killing himself (it isn't, but if it were), then I'd probably find it easier to believe he wasn't cautious enough to protect himself from a happy accident of sorts. At least then he doesn't have the karmic debt of having killed himself, right? It was an accident! Nevermind that it was from a bottle he knew was lethal and nevermind that he had enough in his stomach to kill a small village.

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Reply #467 posted 01/06/20 12:43pm

LoveGalore

bondno9 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



Yes, the booths are in the dinette area downstairs.

Yes, the booths downstaris which were caddy-corner to the elevator. Almost four years later and something about that scene still rubs me the wrong way. Its oodd because the sunglasses (and I believe a set of keys ... have to review photo again) were placed on the corner away from the food. You would expect the sunglasses to have been directly next to the food. A person sits down and then places their eyeglasses/sunglasses next to them. Also, I don't recall any silverware being near the food. Just takeout containers and some sauce. Did P mean to eat the food? or was someone else at Paisely with him the eve of April 20th? Was P seated in the booth (side of sunglasses) and someone else was seated (side of food). Hence, seated face to face? I'm still working on my hypothesis of his demise and it's not inclusive of suicide.

Why assume that he sat down in the booth?

.

https://www.youtube.com/w...vjK_9qxy1I

.

Imagine he has his glasses and keys in one hand and the food in the other. He stands at the end of the table and places them down. Then he goes upstairs to take his pills because he's about to eat.

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Reply #468 posted 01/06/20 2:18pm

PeggyO

LoveGalore said:

bondno9 said:

Yes, the booths downstaris which were caddy-corner to the elevator. Almost four years later and something about that scene still rubs me the wrong way. Its oodd because the sunglasses (and I believe a set of keys ... have to review photo again) were placed on the corner away from the food. You would expect the sunglasses to have been directly next to the food. A person sits down and then places their eyeglasses/sunglasses next to them. Also, I don't recall any silverware being near the food. Just takeout containers and some sauce. Did P mean to eat the food? or was someone else at Paisely with him the eve of April 20th? Was P seated in the booth (side of sunglasses) and someone else was seated (side of food). Hence, seated face to face? I'm still working on my hypothesis of his demise and it's not inclusive of suicide.

Why assume that he sat down in the booth?

.

https://www.youtube.com/w...vjK_9qxy1I

.

Imagine he has his glasses and keys in one hand and the food in the other. He stands at the end of the table and places them down. Then he goes upstairs to take his pills because he's about to eat.

I think I read the sunglasses were Meron's.

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Reply #469 posted 01/06/20 3:41pm

LoveGalore

PeggyO said:



LoveGalore said:




bondno9 said:




Yes, the booths downstaris which were caddy-corner to the elevator. Almost four years later and something about that scene still rubs me the wrong way. Its oodd because the sunglasses (and I believe a set of keys ... have to review photo again) were placed on the corner away from the food. You would expect the sunglasses to have been directly next to the food. A person sits down and then places their eyeglasses/sunglasses next to them. Also, I don't recall any silverware being near the food. Just takeout containers and some sauce. Did P mean to eat the food? or was someone else at Paisely with him the eve of April 20th? Was P seated in the booth (side of sunglasses) and someone else was seated (side of food). Hence, seated face to face? I'm still working on my hypothesis of his demise and it's not inclusive of suicide.




Why assume that he sat down in the booth?


.


https://www.youtube.com/w...vjK_9qxy1I


.


Imagine he has his glasses and keys in one hand and the food in the other. He stands at the end of the table and places them down. Then he goes upstairs to take his pills because he's about to eat.





I think I read the sunglasses were Meron's.





They do look like lady sunglasses, but you never know with Prince. Lol.
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Reply #470 posted 01/06/20 3:46pm

Madhouse6

He always said if you wanted to know more about him to listen to his music
U Know has the line ‘if you want to know more about this cancer you must rewind. et a second opinion. Then there was way back home
Also look at the backdrop for the P&M gigs. It’s a mandala - The meaning of the word mandala in Sanskrit is circle. Mandala is a spiritual and ritual symbol in Hinduism and Buddhism, representing the universe. The circular designs symbolizes the idea that life is never ending and everything is connected. The mandala also represents spiritual journey within the individual viewer
21/04 had a full cherry moon - he wore the moon phases during the P&M Tour. I believe the Moline overdose was an accident but showed him a peaceful out those that state he wouldn’t due to religion need to understand that also he had a love for god he didn’t follow any real religion to the letter of the law

Finally the year on the avatar was added by Prince and Martin Homent states his version didn’t contain the year
[Edited 1/7/20 0:34am]
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Reply #471 posted 01/06/20 4:49pm

RODSERLING

I am reading right now his memoirs, and it appears to me for the first time that he probably killed himself.
.
This autobiography project was clearly going nowhere, and he knew it.
He wrote like 28 pages in a hurry, and then completely gave up. He already had told the best parts in this 28 pages. The rest of his life was showbusiness, sadness and weirdness.
.
The fact that he wanted to give up playing guitar, give up releasing albums and being a writer (!) But couldn't write a book alone screams out loud that something was clearly dead in him and that he desperately searched for something else, another reason to live other than being a musician.
.
He couldn't dance anymore, couldn t write, couldn't even sell his recent releases more than 30.000 copies worldwide.
.
He was clearly bored and depressed.
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Reply #472 posted 01/06/20 6:25pm

lavendardrumma
chine

Madhouse6 said:

Then there was way back home SLO look at the backdrop for the P&M gigs. It’s a mandala - The meaning of the word mandala in Sanskrit is circle. Mandala is a spiritual and ritual symbol in Hinduism and Buddhism, representing the universe.


Hate to say it but that was a pre-fab (or might as well have been) VJ software running in the background. The way they sell DJ software, they make video software with automated features.

It was like the built in Itunes visualizer.


That wasn't really a straight up Mandala (unless they did it at one of the shows, and I'm totally mistaken), it was just some quasi psychedelic lightshow imagery that had some kind of Eastern shapes mixed in with the "light show".

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Reply #473 posted 01/06/20 8:05pm

AnnaStesia10

avatar

LoveGalore said:



rednblue said:




rednblue said:





Great point about how "premeditated" can describe such a wide range of things.

Also (and sorry to sound like a broken record), we know that (as with ideation in general) thoughts related to premeditation may not be constant. They may vary (over large and small time frames) in content and intensity.

On a different subject, the idea of willingness to be somewhat "reckless" in life (obviously not one in the same with wishing/intending to injure oneself) was alluded to earlier. Exactly what rises to the level of being "reckless" in life obviously comes down to individual opinion. But as a general concept, many describe having been more risk averse in some periods of life than in others. I've known people who decided to stop or limit things like sky diving and motorcycle riding in reaction to a relationship with a partner or the birth of a child.

Though when it comes to cases of trying to alleviate significant pain, I'm not sure "reckless" is ever a reasonable word. I'm starting to wander, so I'll stop here.






I think that the things people mention as ongoing projects not indicative of a suicidal man are the sorts of projects someone begins when trying to convince themselves they're not suicidal. If that makes sense. Things to reinvigorate someone. Getting back to basics and doing a piano tour like he always wanted to and that his fans wanted (he mentioned not knowing what he was gonna play cuz he won't have a band which seems exciting). Writing a book with someone, where he gets the opportunity to discuss all the meaningful things in his life with someone who was by no means a lifelong Prince aficionado.


.


Things that would pull a person above water just enough to not be really depressed and irritated by his ongoing health issues, ya know?


.


I've said this before, but I reckon that if it were difficult for me to consider Prince killing himself (it isn't, but if it were), then I'd probably find it easier to believe he wasn't cautious enough to protect himself from a happy accident of sorts. At least then he doesn't have the karmic debt of having killed himself, right? It was an accident! Nevermind that it was from a bottle he knew was lethal and nevermind that he had enough in his stomach to kill a small village.



LoveGalore-
Yo post makes sense to me. I have had the same thoughts too. And the happy accident possible scenario has played in my mind as well. Like a Russian roulette type of situation in his mind.
[Edited 1/6/20 20:06pm]
[Edited 1/6/20 20:08pm]
"A strong spirit transcends rules." - Prince
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Reply #474 posted 01/06/20 8:17pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

bondno9 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



Yes, the booths are in the dinette area downstairs.

Yes, the booths downstaris which were caddy-corner to the elevator. Almost four years later and something about that scene still rubs me the wrong way. Its oodd because the sunglasses (and I believe a set of keys ... have to review photo again) were placed on the corner away from the food. You would expect the sunglasses to have been directly next to the food. A person sits down and then places their eyeglasses/sunglasses next to them. Also, I don't recall any silverware being near the food. Just takeout containers and some sauce. Did P mean to eat the food? or was someone else at Paisely with him the eve of April 20th? Was P seated in the booth (side of sunglasses) and someone else was seated (side of food). Hence, seated face to face? I'm still working on my hypothesis of his demise and it's not inclusive of suicide.



We dont know if those were P's sunglasses, or whether he had been wearing sunglasses that day.

The video of P entering Dr. S's office that day shows he was not wearing sunglasses when he was outside.




[Edited 1/6/20 20:37pm]

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Reply #475 posted 01/07/20 7:25am

rednblue

LoveGalore said:

rednblue said:

I think that the things people mention as ongoing projects not indicative of a suicidal man are the sorts of projects someone begins when trying to convince themselves they're not suicidal. If that makes sense. Things to reinvigorate someone. Getting back to basics and doing a piano tour like he always wanted to and that his fans wanted (he mentioned not knowing what he was gonna play cuz he won't have a band which seems exciting). Writing a book with someone, where he gets the opportunity to discuss all the meaningful things in his life with someone who was by no means a lifelong Prince aficionado.

.

Things that would pull a person above water just enough to not be really depressed and irritated by his ongoing health issues, ya know?

.

I've said this before, but I reckon that if it were difficult for me to consider Prince killing himself (it isn't, but if it were), then I'd probably find it easier to believe he wasn't cautious enough to protect himself from a happy accident of sorts. At least then he doesn't have the karmic debt of having killed himself, right? It was an accident! Nevermind that it was from a bottle he knew was lethal and nevermind that he had enough in his stomach to kill a small village.



Thanks for your response.

Speaking of writing a book with someone, Dan Piepenbring relates (The Beautiful Ones, p. 103) that Prince told him, "Religion is about self-development. That's all it is."

Perhaps according to that, most everyone does OK, as most everyone grows a fair amount over the course of a lifetime. What do you think?

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Reply #476 posted 01/07/20 7:33am

LoveGalore

rednblue said:

LoveGalore said:

I think that the things people mention as ongoing projects not indicative of a suicidal man are the sorts of projects someone begins when trying to convince themselves they're not suicidal. If that makes sense. Things to reinvigorate someone. Getting back to basics and doing a piano tour like he always wanted to and that his fans wanted (he mentioned not knowing what he was gonna play cuz he won't have a band which seems exciting). Writing a book with someone, where he gets the opportunity to discuss all the meaningful things in his life with someone who was by no means a lifelong Prince aficionado.

.

Things that would pull a person above water just enough to not be really depressed and irritated by his ongoing health issues, ya know?

.

I've said this before, but I reckon that if it were difficult for me to consider Prince killing himself (it isn't, but if it were), then I'd probably find it easier to believe he wasn't cautious enough to protect himself from a happy accident of sorts. At least then he doesn't have the karmic debt of having killed himself, right? It was an accident! Nevermind that it was from a bottle he knew was lethal and nevermind that he had enough in his stomach to kill a small village.



Thanks for your response.

Speaking of writing a book with someone, Dan Piepenbring relates (The Beautiful Ones, p. 103) that Prince told him, "Religion is about self-development. That's all it is."

Perhaps according to that, most everyone does OK, as most everyone grows a fair amount over the course of a lifetime. What do you think?

Yeah, I think it is communal prosperity through the lens of self development, if that makes sense. If you're doing this, this, and this for yourself then not only does the community benefit, but you don't have time to be terrorizing other people anyway. Whether or not that self development ever actually ends (or should end) is in the eye of the beholder, I think.

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Reply #477 posted 01/07/20 8:17am

rednblue

LoveGalore said:

rednblue said:



Thanks for your response.

Speaking of writing a book with someone, Dan Piepenbring relates (The Beautiful Ones, p. 103) that Prince told him, "Religion is about self-development. That's all it is."

Perhaps according to that, most everyone does OK, as most everyone grows a fair amount over the course of a lifetime. What do you think?

Yeah, I think it is communal prosperity through the lens of self development, if that makes sense. If you're doing this, this, and this for yourself then not only does the community benefit, but you don't have time to be terrorizing other people anyway. Whether or not that self development ever actually ends (or should end) is in the eye of the beholder, I think.


Thank you for bringing up community! Going back to The Beautiful Ones, community figures in a big way in that book. Discussion of Ayn Rand and appreciation of DJ's are just two examples that jump to mind at this moment.

The last idea/question that you noted is formidable. On the opposite end of formidable, it's good to reflect that P created so much with potential to propel personal growth, not only for himself, but for others. He was both musical genius and fallible human. He was imperfect, sometimes highly imperfect wink , like every person everywhere. From what I've read and heard, P was striking in his tendency to undermine a person's confidence, and also striking in his tendency to boost a person's confidence. When it comes to the latter, he clearly helped people to recognize their own creative potentials. He helped people to see the possibility of creating things that could fuel their own growth, and the growth of others, too.

Not to get too mushy, but one of the few things most all probably agree on is that Prince's art continues to propel self-development in this earthly place. Writing this helps me see one of the reasons why I'm so wildly eager to introduce other people to more and more of P's work. Yes, "wildly" is the word. Just ask my family. biggrin

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Reply #478 posted 01/07/20 8:21am

rednblue

LoveGalore said:

rednblue said:



Thanks for your response.

Speaking of writing a book with someone, Dan Piepenbring relates (The Beautiful Ones, p. 103) that Prince told him, "Religion is about self-development. That's all it is."

Perhaps according to that, most everyone does OK, as most everyone grows a fair amount over the course of a lifetime. What do you think?

Yeah, I think it is communal prosperity through the lens of self development, if that makes sense. If you're doing this, this, and this for yourself then not only does the community benefit, but you don't have time to be terrorizing other people anyway. Whether or not that self development ever actually ends (or should end) is in the eye of the beholder, I think.


Oh, and though I can joke that some of my previous post contradicts this a little lol , thanks for these great words.

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Reply #479 posted 01/07/20 8:30am

nelcp777

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

bondno9 said:

Yes, the booths downstaris which were caddy-corner to the elevator. Almost four years later and something about that scene still rubs me the wrong way. Its oodd because the sunglasses (and I believe a set of keys ... have to review photo again) were placed on the corner away from the food. You would expect the sunglasses to have been directly next to the food. A person sits down and then places their eyeglasses/sunglasses next to them. Also, I don't recall any silverware being near the food. Just takeout containers and some sauce. Did P mean to eat the food? or was someone else at Paisely with him the eve of April 20th? Was P seated in the booth (side of sunglasses) and someone else was seated (side of food). Hence, seated face to face? I'm still working on my hypothesis of his demise and it's not inclusive of suicide.



We dont know if those were P's sunglasses, or whether he had been wearing sunglasses that day.

The video of P entering Dr. S's office that day shows he was not wearing sunglasses when he was outside.




[Edited 1/6/20 20:37pm]

I was always under the impression the glass, keys and food on the table were Kirks. I also thought Meron's keys were in the Production Room. Prince's food from the chef was in the fridge, untouched. I will have to look again and get the photo numbers.

Anyways, I always thought that Kirk, Meron and Andrew came in the side door. Meron and Andrew waited in the Product Room when Kirk went looking for Prince. I believe that Kirk set his stuff in the dinnette area, then went looking for Prince.

When he could not locate Prince, he came back for Meron to help. My speculation.

As for the clothes on backwards, I am inclined to believe that Prince dressed in a hurry at Dr. S. I do not believe he removed his clothes all night at PP. With so many space heaters, I get the impression he was cold a lot.

We know Prince and Kirk arrived at PP around 8 pm. I think Meron said her and Kirk stayed till around 1030. I wonder what they did. According to the chef, Prince went straight to his private areas. I wonder if Prince used the computer or ipad in the yellow office sometime. It will explain his jacket and gloves on the floor.

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Forums > Prince: Music and More > What Really Happened 2 Prince pt II