Let's just say that if the people around him from the beginning to 2016 would come clean and tell what they saw and/or what they knew ... get the truth out about drug use and/or medical issues ... it would resolve a number of questions we have. He died from a drug overdose and many people wrote him off as another celebrity junkie. That alone would spur me to spill the beans, but these people think it is better to not say anythingand have his character besmirched.

peggyon said:

anangellooksdown said:

Everyone’s depressed. This is why I laugh when doctors or psychiatrists label patients with “depression”. Especially when pointing their fingers. They are at least as depressed as the patient. One thing Susan Rogers wanted to make clear is that Prince was human. He was a man. Yes, some of us can see that he was very in line with God too. But all human life bodily perishes eventually. He came here to live his life and when he felt or knew it was time, I think he didn’t fight it. Remember the pastor at his celebration saying, “Never question God’s timing.” Prince, I believe, didnt. Was there a melancholy feeling that this was “it”? Probably. He had such a good life. (smiles). Perhaps that is why he told Judith he longed for “the good old days”. Things were changing all around him in this world and he knew it. He wasn’t kidding when he began speaking of passing the torch to a younger generation. One he didn’t belong to. He did his job. He left his gift. We should all be so fortunate to achieve so much in whatever quieter realm we may. Being a star or known about isn’t the only way to fulfill our purpose. Some of us may only really help one person and that will be a lot. With Prince, I feel he came to an acceptance of his situation; knew the time was coming. We should too. We can feel sad that he’s not here in the form he was anymore while at the same time being happy. Prince was so wise. He knew in his 40s there was a chance he wouldn’t “make it to 60”. [Edited 8/31/18 5:07am]

Not making it to 60 was entirely under his control, however.

Though he was deeply spiritual, he actively sought fame and think he enjoyed the perks well into his older years. I think he was continually searching for comfort and peace which seemed to elude him.

He tried fame, immersion in music and eventually drugs. I feel there was a very deep discomfort in him that was difficult to assuage and this may have fueled his attraction to the "hereafter" and eventually drugs.

I think he tired of trying so many ways of finding comfort/peace on this plane of existence. He strikes me as someone who had difficulty manufacturing that internally.

I noticed while he was talking to Judith about the "good old days", it seemed odd to me, as he had just gotten off the stage where his fans were actively giving him so much love...that would have sustained many for several months.

I often compare him to David Bowie (with love). It seemed David could walk away and find contentment in the next phase of his life (domesticity). I do not think Prince was comfortable with monogamy so domesticity would not have been his thing, but how about opening a music school at Paisley (like a Berklee School of Music), or another simple creative outlet. The world has so many simple pleasures that he did not seem to find nourishing.

Another topic of concern for me is his statement that "I have finished all I have come to do here"

Unless he was terminally ill, (he could have been??), then as a staunch believer in his brand of conservative Christianity, he would have known that it was up to God to determine when he was finished.

If his decline was a result of drug use, then his religion would not have condoned that statement as that was cover for "I may die of a drug overdose as a result of my drug use.

It would have been Prince self-mythologizing again.

[Edited 8/31/18 7:01am]

Peggyon, I was mostly struck by this self-mythologizing possibility, as I think it makes at least as much sense as a lot of ideas that are out there, yet I haven't heard it expressed, at least not in this way.

Of course, the "up to God to determine when he was finished" view held by such a religion would be true regarding any serious illness. That's where I find the general perception of substance use conditions that focuses on "lack of control of things that people of character and competence do control" (vs. perception about other serious illnesses) to come into play regarding how P might characterize a situation. P was a very private person. Maybe he would in fact have said the same ("finished all I have come to do here") if his body was breaking down due to e.g., cancer, heart disease or complications of diabetes. I obviously don't know. But I can't help but think that the relative emphasis on control/character/competence would make it relatively more tempting to conceal and/or mythologize.

Also, I have a perception that made your last sentence jump out at me. Of all the things that P's image, and some fans, seem invested in, P being a master of control seems like one of the greatest. That's not in any way to suggest that P wasn't a master of control. But no human is in complete control. It's just that the idea that P virtually always had the power to do things in his way, to execute his plan, with the outcome under his control and ultimately being what he wanted...that idea comes through really strongly in the purple world.

I only note this because it may have affected P's ability/desire to reach out for help for a condition stereotyped as being about people who are pathetically out of control of things over which people of character and competence should be in control.

That said, P may well have reached a point, or points, where he didn't want to change his opiate use. Also, available treatments for addiction often aren't perfect. However, as you noted, there are many available approaches to treating pain, addiction and other conditions.

OK, sorry to be so chatty. Way more than enough of me for a while.

[Edited 8/31/18 10:34am]

[Edited 8/31/18 11:39am]

[Edited 8/31/18 12:01pm]

PennyPurple said:

We forget that big Pharma and the Dr.s helped create this opioid crisis. Again people who have severe chronic pain were prescribed these pills, which they didn't know was so highly addicting. Big Pharma hid it from everyone. And here we are.

Yes, and I respect and feel for all sufferers of chronic pain, and family and friends who work so hard to help them. I feel for people who see their loved ones suffer, and I don't judge the desires of friends and loved ones to see someone relieved of immediate, excruciating pain.

PennyPurple, beyond this, I have utmost respect for what you and your husband have been through, and the actions you have taken. I hope beyond hope that medicine will come up with a better treatment, that somehow your husband's excruciating pain can be alleviated.

rednblue said:

peggyon said:

Not making it to 60 was entirely under his control, however.

Though he was deeply spiritual, he actively sought fame and think he enjoyed the perks well into his older years. I think he was continually searching for comfort and peace which seemed to elude him.

He tried fame, immersion in music and eventually drugs. I feel there was a very deep discomfort in him that was difficult to assuage and this may have fueled his attraction to the "hereafter" and eventually drugs.

I think he tired of trying so many ways of finding comfort/peace on this plane of existence. He strikes me as someone who had difficulty manufacturing that internally.

I noticed while he was talking to Judith about the "good old days", it seemed odd to me, as he had just gotten off the stage where his fans were actively giving him so much love...that would have sustained many for several months.

I often compare him to David Bowie (with love). It seemed David could walk away and find contentment in the next phase of his life (domesticity). I do not think Prince was comfortable with monogamy so domesticity would not have been his thing, but how about opening a music school at Paisley (like a Berklee School of Music), or another simple creative outlet. The world has so many simple pleasures that he did not seem to find nourishing.

Another topic of concern for me is his statement that "I have finished all I have come to do here"

Unless he was terminally ill, (he could have been??), then as a staunch believer in his brand of conservative Christianity, he would have known that it was up to God to determine when he was finished.

If his decline was a result of drug use, then his religion would not have condoned that statement as that was cover for "I may die of a drug overdose as a result of my drug use.

It would have been Prince self-mythologizing again.

[Edited 8/31/18 7:01am]

Peggyon, I was mostly struck by this self-mythologizing possibility, as I think it makes at least as much sense as a lot of ideas that are out there, yet I haven't heard it expressed, at least not in this way.

Of course, the "up to God to determine when he was finished" view held by such a religion would be true regarding any serious illness. That's where I find the general perception of substance use conditions that focuses on "lack of control of things that people of character and competence do control" (vs. perception about other serious illnesses) to come into play regarding how P might characterize a situation. P was a very private person. Maybe he would in fact have said the same ("finished all I have come to do here") if his body was breaking down due to e.g., cancer, heart disease or complications of diabetes. I obviously don't know. But I can't help but think that the relative emphasis on control/character/competence would make it relatively more tempting to conceal and/or mythologize.

Also, I have a perception that made your last sentence jump out at me. Of all the things that P's image, and some fans, seem invested in, P being a master of control seems like one of the greatest. That's not in any way to suggest that P wasn't a master of control. But no human is in complete control. It's just that the idea that P virtually always had the power to do things in his way, to execute his plan, with the outcome under his control and ultimately being what he wanted...that idea comes through really strongly in the purple world.

I only note this because it may have affected P's ability/desire to reach out for help for a condition stereotyped as being about people who are pathetically out of control of things over which people of character and competence should be in control.

That said, P may well have reached a point, or points, where he didn't want to change his opiate use. Also, available treatments for addiction often aren't perfect. However, as you noted, there are many available approaches to treating pain, addiction and other conditions.

OK, sorry to be so chatty. Way more than enough of me for a while.

[Edited 8/31/18 10:34am]

[Edited 8/31/18 11:39am]

[Edited 8/31/18 12:01pm]

peggyon said:

rednblue said:

Peggyon, I was mostly struck by this self-mythologizing possibility, as I think it makes at least as much sense as a lot of ideas that are out there, yet I haven't heard it expressed, at least not in this way.

Of course, the "up to God to determine when he was finished" view held by such a religion would be true regarding any serious illness. That's where I find the general perception of substance use conditions that focuses on "lack of control of things that people of character and competence do control" (vs. perception about other serious illnesses) to come into play regarding how P might characterize a situation. P was a very private person. Maybe he would in fact have said the same ("finished all I have come to do here") if his body was breaking down due to e.g., cancer, heart disease or complications of diabetes. I obviously don't know. But I can't help but think that the relative emphasis on control/character/competence would make it relatively more tempting to conceal and/or mythologize.

Also, I have a perception that made your last sentence jump out at me. Of all the things that P's image, and some fans, seem invested in, P being a master of control seems like one of the greatest. That's not in any way to suggest that P wasn't a master of control. But no human is in complete control. It's just that the idea that P virtually always had the power to do things in his way, to execute his plan, with the outcome under his control and ultimately being what he wanted...that idea comes through really strongly in the purple world.

I only note this because it may have affected P's ability/desire to reach out for help for a condition stereotyped as being about people who are pathetically out of control of things over which people of character and competence should be in control.

That said, P may well have reached a point, or points, where he didn't want to change his opiate use. Also, available treatments for addiction often aren't perfect. However, as you noted, there are many available approaches to treating pain, addiction and other conditions.

OK, sorry to be so chatty. Way more than enough of me for a while.

[Edited 8/31/18 10:34am]

[Edited 8/31/18 11:39am]

[Edited 8/31/18 12:01pm]

Though I am a huge fan of Prince and his talent. I sometimes though,think he led us to believe that he was extra special, almost from another realm with different rules. There is some ego in that approach.

He was not a demi-god, nor a prophet or other special being. I am just not interested in treating him with kid gloves. Can you imagine yourself saying "I have done all I have come to do" (unless you were really terminally ill) I know my daughter would burst out laughing.

I just finished watching a Charlie Daniels interview with Dan Rather and I was struck by his sincere

humility. He has had most of the same band members for 20+ years, he stated he was only a member of the band, he's still in love with his wife of many years.There were many other things he said that made me feel he was just a regular guy.

He did talk about drinking/drugs/affairs and how they can limit your longevity in both career and life. His lack of ego, I feel, has kept him emotionally healthy

From the Star Tribune (thanks Latin)

Petition will ask for grand jury investigation into Prince's death

An ad hoc group of Prince fans is gathering signatures on a petition they plan to present next month to state and federal law enforcement demanding a grand jury investigation into the musician's death from an accidental overdose.


http://www.startribune.com/petition-will-ask-for-grand-jury-investigation-into-prince-s-death/492140331/

rednblue said:

PennyPurple said:

We forget that big Pharma and the Dr.s helped create this opioid crisis. Again people who have severe chronic pain were prescribed these pills, which they didn't know was so highly addicting. Big Pharma hid it from everyone. And here we are.

Yes, and I respect and feel for all sufferers of chronic pain, and family and friends who work so hard to help them. I feel for people who see their loved ones suffer, and I don't judge the desires of friends and loved ones to see someone relieved of immediate, excruciating pain.

PennyPurple, beyond this, I have utmost respect for what you and your husband have been through, and the actions you have taken. I hope beyond hope that medicine will come up with a better treatment, that somehow your husband's excruciating pain can be alleviated.

Thank you R&B.

I can't help but wonder if when he had his hip surgery that was the beginning and the end of this round of addiction?

peggyon said:

peggyon said:

Though I am a huge fan of Prince and his talent. I sometimes though,think he led us to believe that he was extra special, almost from another realm with different rules. There is some ego in that approach.

He was not a demi-god, nor a prophet or other special being. I am just not interested in treating him with kid gloves. Can you imagine yourself saying "I have done all I have come to do" (unless you were really terminally ill) I know my daughter would burst out laughing.

I just finished watching a Charlie Daniels interview with Dan Rather and I was struck by his sincere

humility. He has had most of the same band members for 20+ years, he stated he was only a member of the band, he's still in love with his wife of many years.There were many other things he said that made me feel he was just a regular guy.

He did talk about drinking/drugs/affairs and how they can limit your longevity in both career and life. His lack of ego, I feel, has kept him emotionally healthy

I agree Peggy. I think humble is the key word.

peggyon said:

peggyon said:

Though I am a huge fan of Prince and his talent. I sometimes though,think he led us to believe that he was extra special, almost from another realm with different rules. There is some ego in that approach.

He was not a demi-god, nor a prophet or other special being. I am just not interested in treating him with kid gloves. Can you imagine yourself saying "I have done all I have come to do" (unless you were really terminally ill) I know my daughter would burst out laughing.

I just finished watching a Charlie Daniels interview with Dan Rather and I was struck by his sincere

humility. He has had most of the same band members for 20+ years, he stated he was only a member of the band, he's still in love with his wife of many years.There were many other things he said that made me feel he was just a regular guy.

He did talk about drinking/drugs/affairs and how they can limit your longevity in both career and life. His lack of ego, I feel, has kept him emotionally healthy

think of like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. mean of all people who might b aliens or angels.if found out that wasn't of this earth, would not b that surprised. All needed 2 do 2 take over the world again is decided he wanted 2.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

anangellooksdown said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

think of like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. mean of all people who might b aliens or angels.if found out that wasn't of this earth, would not b that surprised. All needed 2 do 2 take over the world again is decided he wanted 2.

I completely get Prince and where he was coming from. If everyone understood, there wouldn’t be anything to get done.

Well said you two...

Me three

PennyPurple said:

peggyon said:

Though I am a huge fan of Prince and his talent. I sometimes though,think he led us to believe that he was extra special, almost from another realm with different rules. There is some ego in that approach.

He was not a demi-god, nor a prophet or other special being. I am just not interested in treating him with kid gloves. Can you imagine yourself saying "I have done all I have come to do" (unless you were really terminally ill) I know my daughter would burst out laughing.

I just finished watching a Charlie Daniels interview with Dan Rather and I was struck by his sincere

humility. He has had most of the same band members for 20+ years, he stated he was only a member of the band, he's still in love with his wife of many years.There were many other things he said that made me feel he was just a regular guy.

He did talk about drinking/drugs/affairs and how they can limit your longevity in both career and life. His lack of ego, I feel, has kept him emotionally healthy

I agree Peggy. I think humble is the key word.

[Edited 9/2/18 8:13am]

PennyPurple said:

peggyon said:

Though I am a huge fan of Prince and his talent. I sometimes though,think he led us to believe that he was extra special, almost from another realm with different rules. There is some ego in that approach.

He was not a demi-god, nor a prophet or other special being. I am just not interested in treating him with kid gloves. Can you imagine yourself saying "I have done all I have come to do" (unless you were really terminally ill) I know my daughter would burst out laughing.

I just finished watching a Charlie Daniels interview with Dan Rather and I was struck by his sincere

humility. He has had most of the same band members for 20+ years, he stated he was only a member of the band, he's still in love with his wife of many years.There were many other things he said that made me feel he was just a regular guy.

He did talk about drinking/drugs/affairs and how they can limit your longevity in both career and life. His lack of ego, I feel, has kept him emotionally healthy

I agree Peggy. I think humble is the key word.

Yes. Humility. And human. Two beautiful words.

rednblue said:

PennyPurple said:

I agree Peggy. I think humble is the key word.

Yes. Humility. And human. Two beautiful words.

Yes, not some mystic God or some demigod.

Prince was princified. Prince did not have to lead people to think he was extra special -- He was and continues to be extra special. His extra-special talents, uniqueness, etc., led fans to princify him into PRINCE. Once on this pedestal, where do you go? It must have been extremely difficult to lead a life that seems to have been based, in large part, on fan expectations.

For a god he died a pretty undignified death.

CatB said:

For a god he died a pretty undignified death.

Unfortunately that's true.

CatB said:

For a god he died a pretty undignified death.

Many "Gods do..

Being crucified is hardly Dignified,

nor is being Castrated as in the case of Kronus the Greek god.

Only their Physical forms can be destroyed, 'they Live on as Immortals

without Physical form...Jesus is more alive today than ever

He is no god. He was special, uber talented and charismatic but was just a man after all. But I have to say that most deaths are undignified. Dying in your sleep is the only one that really is dignified. Even dying in the hospital or in hospice care with your family around has its indignities. I have seen the death pictures. I will never look at them again -- and was pissed that his pix were splashed in the media. I just didn't want to accidentally stumble on gruesome pictures. So, I looked real quick to get it out of the way. I was relieved that he looked peaceful and as if sleeping. But I will never look at them again and I haven't since that one time)

CatB said:

For a god he died a pretty undignified death.

SkipperLove said:

CatB said:

Here we go again... really, are you serious? Why do you come for me again, why not for the deity fans up there, one of which is even saying that Prince didn't care for sexuality anymore as he got older just because it matches her own development. OF COURSE he was human and he had needs and the RIGHT to be human. All that mystifying is what helped to kill him in the end. It certainly did not help him to LIVE. You still seem to think you have to explain Prince to me and now to even lecture me on death. I have had enough people dying in my life and I certainly don't need you to tell me about Prince's talent or charisma. SkipperLove said:

He is no god. He was special, uber talented and charismatic but was just a man after all. But I have to say that most deaths are undignified. Dying in your sleep is the only one that really is dignified. Even dying in the hospital or in hospice care with your family around has its indignities. I have seen the death pictures. I will never look at them again -- and was pissed that his pix were splashed in the media. I just didn't want to accidentally stumble on gruesome pictures. So, I looked real quick to get it out of the way. I was relieved that he looked peaceful and as if sleeping. But I will never look at them again and I haven't since that one time)

peggyon said:

CatB said:

Here we go again... really, are you serious? Why do you come for me again, why not for the deity fans up there, one of which is even saying that Prince didn't care for sexuality anymore as he got older just because it matches her own development. OF COURSE he was human and he had needs and the RIGHT to be human. All that mystifying is what helped to kill him in the end. It certainly did not help him to LIVE. You still seem to think you have to explain Prince to me and now to even lecture me on death. I have had enough people dying in my life and I certainly don't need you to tell me about Prince's talent or charisma. SkipperLove said:

Cat-Many of us are with you.

CatB said:

Here we go again... really, are you serious? Why do you come for me again, why not for the deity fans up there, one of which is even saying that Prince didn't care for sexuality anymore as he got older just because it matches her own development. OF COURSE he was human and he had needs and the RIGHT to be human. All that mystifying is what helped to kill him in the end. It certainly did not help him to LIVE. You still seem to think you have to explain Prince to me and now to even lecture me on death. I have had enough people dying in my life and I certainly don't need you to tell me about Prince's talent or charisma. SkipperLove said:

He is no god. He was special, uber talented and charismatic but was just a man after all. But I have to say that most deaths are undignified. Dying in your sleep is the only one that really is dignified. Even dying in the hospital or in hospice care with your family around has its indignities. I have seen the death pictures. I will never look at them again -- and was pissed that his pix were splashed in the media. I just didn't want to accidentally stumble on gruesome pictures. So, I looked real quick to get it out of the way. I was relieved that he looked peaceful and as if sleeping. But I will never look at them again and I haven't since that one time)

Lecture series

anangellooksdown said:

peggyon said:

I can see I offended you. That definitely wasn’t my intent. Peggyon, do you have any actual experience working through the 12 Steps?

Angel-I wasn't offended at all and no I don't have any experience with 12 steps. I am just somewhat weary of the Prince pedestal. (I was also having difficulty with my contractor that day!) . Men!

[Edited 9/2/18 20:56pm]

[Edited 9/2/18 20:57pm]

peggyon said:

peggyon said:

Cat-Many of us are with you.

Thank you, Peggy. Always appreciated.

peggyon said:

Angel-I wasn't offended at all and no I don't have any experience with 12 steps. I am just somewhat weary of the Prince pedestal. (I was also having difficulty with my contractor that day!) . Men!

Awww.

You were the last one to speak/write when I read the posts today and the one who I both agreed and disagreed with at the same time. I was partly agreeing with you about his being human but disagreeing with you about his death being particularly undignified..because like I said, most death is undignified. Hell, even Jesus's death was undignified. The sacrifice was dignified, but suffocating half-naked on a cross with a thorny crown and spikes through your wrists is not dignified. I am not attacking you or explaining P's charisma etc. I mentioned it to counter the earlier arguments by others but I am not going to respond to each and every one of them. I imagine we would both agree that deities don't have drug addictions and that was probably your point. But it always occurred to me that death by definition has indignities (everything from autospies to coronor preparation)

CatB said:

Here we go again... really, are you serious? Why do you come for me again, why not for the deity fans up there, one of which is even saying that Prince didn't care for sexuality anymore as he got older just because it matches her own development. OF COURSE he was human and he had needs and the RIGHT to be human. All that mystifying is what helped to kill him in the end. It certainly did not help him to LIVE. You still seem to think you have to explain Prince to me and now to even lecture me on death. I have had enough people dying in my life and I certainly don't need you to tell me about Prince's talent or charisma. SkipperLove said:

He is no god. He was special, uber talented and charismatic but was just a man after all. But I have to say that most deaths are undignified. Dying in your sleep is the only one that really is dignified. Even dying in the hospital or in hospice care with your family around has its indignities. I have seen the death pictures. I will never look at them again -- and was pissed that his pix were splashed in the media. I just didn't want to accidentally stumble on gruesome pictures. So, I looked real quick to get it out of the way. I was relieved that he looked peaceful and as if sleeping. But I will never look at them again and I haven't since that one time)

[Edited 9/2/18 21:46pm]

SkipperLove said:

"We both" agree on nothing and please stop putting words in my mouth. What you imagine was not my point. In future, please quote the people you are replying to and don't use me to reply to all. I will put you on ignore from now on.

SkipperLove said:

You were the last one to speak/write when I read the posts today and the one who I both agreed and disagreed with at the same time. I was partly agreeing with you about his being human but disagreeing with you about his death being particularly undignified..because like I said, most death is undignified. Hell, even Jesus's death was undignified. The sacrifice was dignified, but suffocating half-naked on a cross with a thorny crown and spikes through your wrists is not dignified. I am not attacking you or explaining P's charisma etc. I mentioned it to counter the earlier arguments by others but I am not going to respond to each and every one of them. I imagine we would both agree that deities don't have drug addictions and that was probably your point. But it always occurred to me that death by definition has indignities (everything from autospies to coronor preparation)

CatB said:

Here we go again... really, are you serious? Why do you come for me again, why not for the deity fans up there, one of which is even saying that Prince didn't care for sexuality anymore as he got older just because it matches her own development. OF COURSE he was human and he had needs and the RIGHT to be human. All that mystifying is what helped to kill him in the end. It certainly did not help him to LIVE. You still seem to think you have to explain Prince to me and now to even lecture me on death. I have had enough people dying in my life and I certainly don't need you to tell me about Prince's talent or charisma. SkipperLove said:

[Edited 9/2/18 21:46pm]

[Edited 9/3/18 0:33am]

muchtoofast said:

Skipper I realized you were also talking to me and anyone else who bothered a read.

Skipper quoted Cat and Cat only, so she replied to Cat. Either skipper needs to learn how to quote or simply not quote at all and just make a statement. The fact is, she comes at Cat all the time, just like you do.