rednblue said:

peggyon said:

Not making it to 60 was entirely under his control, however.

Though he was deeply spiritual, he actively sought fame and think he enjoyed the perks well into his older years. I think he was continually searching for comfort and peace which seemed to elude him.

He tried fame, immersion in music and eventually drugs. I feel there was a very deep discomfort in him that was difficult to assuage and this may have fueled his attraction to the "hereafter" and eventually drugs.

I think he tired of trying so many ways of finding comfort/peace on this plane of existence. He strikes me as someone who had difficulty manufacturing that internally.

I noticed while he was talking to Judith about the "good old days", it seemed odd to me, as he had just gotten off the stage where his fans were actively giving him so much love...that would have sustained many for several months.

I often compare him to David Bowie (with love). It seemed David could walk away and find contentment in the next phase of his life (domesticity). I do not think Prince was comfortable with monogamy so domesticity would not have been his thing, but how about opening a music school at Paisley (like a Berklee School of Music), or another simple creative outlet. The world has so many simple pleasures that he did not seem to find nourishing.

Another topic of concern for me is his statement that "I have finished all I have come to do here"

Unless he was terminally ill, (he could have been??), then as a staunch believer in his brand of conservative Christianity, he would have known that it was up to God to determine when he was finished.

If his decline was a result of drug use, then his religion would not have condoned that statement as that was cover for "I may die of a drug overdose as a result of my drug use.

It would have been Prince self-mythologizing again.

[Edited 8/31/18 7:01am]

Peggyon, I was mostly struck by this self-mythologizing possibility, as I think it makes at least as much sense as a lot of ideas that are out there, yet I haven't heard it expressed, at least not in this way.

Of course, the "up to God to determine when he was finished" view held by such a religion would be true regarding any serious illness. That's where I find the general perception of substance use conditions that focuses on "lack of control of things that people of character and competence do control" (vs. perception about other serious illnesses) to come into play regarding how P might characterize a situation. P was a very private person. Maybe he would in fact have said the same ("finished all I have come to do here") if his body was breaking down due to e.g., cancer, heart disease or complications of diabetes. I obviously don't know. But I can't help but think that the relative emphasis on control/character/competence would make it relatively more tempting to conceal and/or mythologize.

Also, I have a perception that made your last sentence jump out at me. Of all the things that P's image, and some fans, seem invested in, P being a master of control seems like one of the greatest. That's not in any way to suggest that P wasn't a master of control. But no human is in complete control. It's just that the idea that P virtually always had the power to do things in his way, to execute his plan, with the outcome under his control and ultimately being what he wanted...that idea comes through really strongly in the purple world.

I only note this because it may have affected P's ability/desire to reach out for help for a condition stereotyped as being about people who are pathetically out of control of things over which people of character and competence should be in control.

That said, P may well have reached a point, or points, where he didn't want to change his opiate use. Also, available treatments for addiction often aren't perfect. However, as you noted, there are many available approaches to treating pain, addiction and other conditions.

OK, sorry to be so chatty. Way more than enough of me for a while.

[Edited 8/31/18 10:34am]

[Edited 8/31/18 11:39am]

[Edited 8/31/18 12:01pm]

Across place and time, humans have worshipped gods with myriad characteristics. That can provoke a lot of discussion.

FWIW, what I was trying to get at, not based on having ever met P, but thinking about both human nature and the limitations of being human, is something like this.

Strengths/weaknesses/biases/sensibilities of Prince, the man and artist, mix with characteristics that contingencies of fans relish, to make Prince the star. Prince, the star, is many things, which may well include an enlargement/distortion/alteration of Prince, the man.

The condition Prince, the man, suffers from is distorted (by stigma) relative to other illnesses. It is distorted in an opposite direction (from that described above) with regard to some fan-cherished characteristics.

Seems that, in itself, could be perilous.

PennyPurple said:

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said:

Skipper quoted Cat and Cat only, so she replied to Cat. Either skipper needs to learn how to quote or simply not quote at all and just make a statement. The fact is, she comes at Cat all the time, just like you do.

And your crotchety behind comes at me and you need to stop! Or fly off the rails with CatB and LEAVE. Sounds like you have things at home you need to take care of.

You are abusive. I am reporting you

peggyon said:

muchtoofast said:

And your crotchety behind comes at me and you need to stop! Or fly off the rails with CatB and LEAVE. Sounds like you have things at home you need to take care of.

You are abusive. I am reporting you

Peggy, I think he/she needs to take his/her own advice.

They can dish it but can't take it.

PennyPurple said:

peggyon said:

You are abusive. I am reporting you

Peggy, I think he/she needs to take his/her own advice.

They can dish it but can't take it.

Really

As you can see Cat nor I are going anywhere. You are a follower, all you do is follow us around.

muchtoofast said:

And your crotchety behind comes at me and you need to stop! Or fly off the rails with CatB and LEAVE. Sounds like you have things at home you need to take care o

rednblue said:

rednblue said:

Peggyon, I was mostly struck by this self-mythologizing possibility, as I think it makes at least as much sense as a lot of ideas that are out there, yet I haven't heard it expressed, at least not in this way.

Of course, the "up to God to determine when he was finished" view held by such a religion would be true regarding any serious illness. That's where I find the general perception of substance use conditions that focuses on "lack of control of things that people of character and competence do control" (vs. perception about other serious illnesses) to come into play regarding how P might characterize a situation. P was a very private person. Maybe he would in fact have said the same ("finished all I have come to do here") if his body was breaking down due to e.g., cancer, heart disease or complications of diabetes. I obviously don't know. But I can't help but think that the relative emphasis on control/character/competence would make it relatively more tempting to conceal and/or mythologize.

Also, I have a perception that made your last sentence jump out at me. Of all the things that P's image, and some fans, seem invested in, P being a master of control seems like one of the greatest. That's not in any way to suggest that P wasn't a master of control. But no human is in complete control. It's just that the idea that P virtually always had the power to do things in his way, to execute his plan, with the outcome under his control and ultimately being what he wanted...that idea comes through really strongly in the purple world.

I only note this because it may have affected P's ability/desire to reach out for help for a condition stereotyped as being about people who are pathetically out of control of things over which people of character and competence should be in control.

That said, P may well have reached a point, or points, where he didn't want to change his opiate use. Also, available treatments for addiction often aren't perfect. However, as you noted, there are many available approaches to treating pain, addiction and other conditions.

OK, sorry to be so chatty. Way more than enough of me for a while.

[Edited 8/31/18 10:34am]

[Edited 8/31/18 11:39am]

[Edited 8/31/18 12:01pm]

Across place and time, humans have worshipped gods with myriad characteristics. That can provoke a lot of discussion.

FWIW, what I was trying to get at, not based on having ever met P, but thinking about both human nature and the limitations of being human, is something like this.

Strengths/weaknesses/biases/sensibilities of Prince, the man and artist, mix with characteristics that contingencies of fans relish, to make Prince the star. Prince, the star, is many things, which may well include an enlargement/distortion/alteration of Prince, the man.

The condition Prince, the man, suffers from is distorted (by stigma) relative to other illnesses. It is distorted in an opposite direction (from that described above) with regard to some fan-cherished characteristics.

Seems that, in itself, could be perilous.

Hi RednBlue-I want to respond to your thoughtful post. Worked today but will respond tomorrow

Exactly

PennyPurple said:

As you can see Cat nor I are going anywhere. You are a follower, all you do is follow us around.

muchtoofast said:

And your crotchety behind comes at me and you need to stop! Or fly off the rails with CatB and LEAVE. Sounds like you have things at home you need to take care o

PennyPurple said:

CatB said:

muchtoofast said:

I didn’t say a thing until CatB, on the basis of what some 19 year old girl said back in the 90’s,

Which 19 year old girl, if I may ask?

muchtoofast said:

claimed that not only was Prince a cokehead but Mayte was too.

Where did I claim that? Exact quote, please.

muchtoofast said:

We all know CatB was having sex with Prince while Mayte was pregnant.

Interesting what "we all know". Again, exact quote please. You will please bring the quote were I - I, not you or your sidekicks and/or other alias names - have stated that I had sex with Prince while Mayte was pregnant.

muchtoofast said:

Dumb rumors don’t belong here.

Exactly. So let's see how you will prove them.

muchtoofast said:

Get some help.

Yes, you should. Following someone around like a lunatic to ask them to defend your flights of fancy is sick. And you seem obsessed with other people's sex life. I wonder where that comes from.

CatB said:

muchtoofast said:

CatB said:

Yes, you should. Following someone around like a lunatic to ask them to defend your flights of fancy is sick. And you seem obsessed with other people's sex life. I wonder where that comes from.

Let’s keep this thread about Prince and some semblance of REALITY. What he might have done 25 years ago is irrelevant.

Funny - all this time it wasn't so irrelevant to you...

LOL Just as I thought. First having a big mouth, making claims just to stir and then getting back on topic, pretending to care about Prince and the death investigation. Again, please bring quotes for your claims.

[Edited 9/3/18 23:31pm]

CatB said:

It is time this thread died, and the topic along with it. Amateur detectives spouting pseudo-science pulled out of their asses, combined with a select circle of "popular" kids who get off on bullying opposing views out of the conversation. This thread has amounted to an experiment in how far bullshit can travel. There were folks here who were once sceptical of the "popular" kid's ramblings, only to be seduced by them once their exceptance into the circle made them all warm and fuzzy. Now, the few left who have resisted the temptation to be "popular" are either labeled pariahs or satan's arse-breath.

The sober, down to earth discussions surrounding the mysteries of Prince's death have slowly been gobbled up by the self-importance of a vocal minority. Any interesting discussions wiped away by those whose shit don't stink. We have bullies maskerading as scholars and, despite a complete lack of scientific evidence, continue to dump their ridiculous conclusions upon the spongy ears of their doe-eyed followers, each time providing momentum for the "popular" kid's assertion that only they have the right to discuss anything of value. When evidence to the contrary is presented, an uneducated scholar steps forth and pronounces their theory to be so cutting-edge that the scientific community cannot keep up the pace with them. And as ever, the doe-eyed circle of "popular" kids follow blindly, as they come down hard on anyone who dares point out the gaping holes in this intellectual void of a conversation.

This is what the Org has become and it would be sad but for the fact that Prince never really had a very pleasant internet following. So forget everything I have just said and carry on with your empty, self-important bullshit. The Org deserves you and you deserve the org. Good luck you bunch of tossers.

Yes, we are speculating, and yes, we each have an opinion on what might have happened, but no, we aren't being irresponsible in continuing this conversation. IMO anyone with half a brain would realize that things don't add up in this case. It was not a cut-and-dry overdose. Yes, his ultimate cause of death was Fentanyl toxicity, but how did he get there? That is why we are still talking. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[Edited 9/4/18 3:47am]

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said:

Peggy, I think he/she needs to take his/her own advice.

They can dish it but can't take it.

I didn’t say a thing until CatB, on the basis of what some 19 year old girl said back in the 90’s, claimed that not only was Prince a cokehead but Mayte was too. We all know CatB was having sex with Prince while Mayte was pregnant. So what is CatB trying to do here, smear the memory of Prince or smear Mayte, claiming she was a cokehead while she was pregnant? Neither one of these 19 year olds saw Mayte or Prince do coke, so I’m calling BS. Not to mention the fact that getting on any forum and admitting to sleeping with a man who’s wife is PREGNANT, seems self destructive and I question her rationality especially since she blows up at a person who is autistic simply because said person doesn’t swallow her BS hook line and sinker. I think she’s a liar or she’s crazy. Dumb rumors don’t belong here.

What does this have to do with Skippers reply or my reply? Nothing.

BTW, I think you are confused with your timeline.

Who is autistic?

You are way off topic here. If dumb rumors don't belong here, then what are you spreading? Rumor.

muchtoofast said:

Let’s keep this thread about Prince and some semblance of REALITY. What he might have done 25 years ago is irrelevant.

Huh? You brought this all on yourself. YOU made these claims a couple of posts up, and when asked to prove it, ^This is what you come up with?

PennyPurple said:

muchtoofast said:

Let’s keep this thread about Prince and some semblance of REALITY. What he might have done 25 years ago is irrelevant.

Huh? You brought this all on yourself. YOU made these claims a couple of posts up, and when asked to prove it, ^This is what you come up with?

I notice that muchtoofast's writing style seems to change. Could there be several authors here?

I am curious who is autistic as well???

Regarding Prince and cocaine. It has been alluded to byseveral/many over the years.

[Edited 9/4/18 6:20am]

I think it's time to lock this mess up.

JonnyBoyRebel said:

It is time this thread died, and the topic along with it. Amateur detectives spouting pseudo-science pulled out of their asses, combined with a select circle of "popular" kids who get off on bullying opposing views out of the conversation. This thread has amounted to an experiment in how far bullshit can travel. There were folks here who were once sceptical of the "popular" kid's ramblings, only to be seduced by them once their exceptance into the circle made them all warm and fuzzy. Now, the few left who have resisted the temptation to be "popular" are either labeled pariahs or satan's arse-breath.

The sober, down to earth discussions surrounding the mysteries of Prince's death have slowly been gobbled up by the self-importance of a vocal minority. Any interesting discussions wiped away by those whose shit don't stink. We have bullies maskerading as scholars and, despite a complete lack of scientific evidence, continue to dump their ridiculous conclusions upon the spongy ears of their doe-eyed followers, each time providing momentum for the "popular" kid's assertion that only they have the right to discuss anything of value. When evidence to the contrary is presented, an uneducated scholar steps forth and pronounces their theory to be so cutting-edge that the scientific community cannot keep up the pace with them. And as ever, the doe-eyed circle of "popular" kids follow blindly, as they come down hard on anyone who dares point out the gaping holes in this intellectual void of a conversation.

This is what the Org has become and it would be sad but for the fact that Prince never really had a very pleasant internet following. So forget everything I have just said and carry on with your empty, self-important bullshit. The Org deserves you and you deserve the org. Good luck you bunch of tossers.

FWIW, I'm here from time to time, and it's surely possible I've missed something, but I still haven't seen any reference to suggest that lidocaine can operate as suggested when ingested in pill form.

In the last post that I recall on the topic, a reference was offered that described injection of lidocaine into gums in dental settings. I still haven't seen any posts with a reference demonstrating described efficacy of lidocaine in pill form.

Perhaps the thought was that lidocaine was taken in through a method other than pill form, but there was no clear statement of that idea.

Giovanni777 said:

I think it's time to lock this mess up.

Not gonna happen.

JonnyBoyRebel said:

It is time this thread died, and the topic along with it. Amateur detectives spouting pseudo-science pulled out of their asses, combined with a select circle of "popular" kids who get off on bullying opposing views out of the conversation. This thread has amounted to an experiment in how far bullshit can travel. There were folks here who were once sceptical of the "popular" kid's ramblings, only to be seduced by them once their exceptance into the circle made them all warm and fuzzy. Now, the few left who have resisted the temptation to be "popular" are either labeled pariahs or satan's arse-breath.

The sober, down to earth discussions surrounding the mysteries of Prince's death have slowly been gobbled up by the self-importance of a vocal minority. Any interesting discussions wiped away by those whose shit don't stink. We have bullies maskerading as scholars and, despite a complete lack of scientific evidence, continue to dump their ridiculous conclusions upon the spongy ears of their doe-eyed followers, each time providing momentum for the "popular" kid's assertion that only they have the right to discuss anything of value. When evidence to the contrary is presented, an uneducated scholar steps forth and pronounces their theory to be so cutting-edge that the scientific community cannot keep up the pace with them. And as ever, the doe-eyed circle of "popular" kids follow blindly, as they come down hard on anyone who dares point out the gaping holes in this intellectual void of a conversation.

This is what the Org has become and it would be sad but for the fact that Prince never really had a very pleasant internet following. So forget everything I have just said and carry on with your empty, self-important bullshit. The Org deserves you and you deserve the org. Good luck you bunch of tossers.

So the last time you posted was 2002, and now here you are in 2018 telling us this thread needs to be shut down.

PennyPurple said:

leec1 said:

PennyPurple said:

99

So the last time you posted was 2002, and now here you are in 2018 telling us this thread needs to be shut down.

Penny I don't understand why various posters are stating the thread should be closed. If they don't agree with the topic,they shouldn't be here.

People just tryin to stir the pot is all. Heck the one poster hadn't posted since 2002. All of a sudden they just pop up.

leec1 said:

PennyPurple said:

99

So the last time you posted was 2002, and now here you are in 2018 telling us this thread needs to be shut down.

Penny I don't understand why various posters are stating the thread should be closed. If they don't agree with the topic,they shouldn't be here.

I allowed the posting of 'Part 12' for the reasons listed in my initial post on this thread. I still believe there is room for the discussion of Prince's death, as it is still unresolved for some people, and frankly where better to discuss Prince's death, but at the same place we've discussed his life for almost twenty years!

I also planned on moderating the thread, because I'm the one who reopened it, but, from then to now, my laptop screen was cracked and the whole screen is dead. Since I don't have my laptop, moderating a heavy thread with my iPhone is no easy task. As a result, it went unmoderated and over reported.

luv was kind enough to lock the thread for me, but I wanted to make sure that you know what the future of this thread is going to be.

When I get my laptop back, I will start 'Part 13' and will be able to moderate it without issue. I believe no discussion, or the hindrance of a discussion legitimately talking about Prince, on a Prince fansite, is not the way to go. We, as moderators, should never try to stifle conversation, whether we agree with it or not. We should promote healthy conversation and keep the topic moving.

With that in mind, this topic shall return, upon the mending of my screen. Until then, it will remain locked. And maybe, just maybe, the break will allow for some thinking between all of you who posted in 'Part 12' - perhaps some self relfection. Self awareness. Self observation. Well, you know what I mean!! Ha ha!

Anyway - until then. - June7