Other thread has gotten wayy too long. The discussion will continue here.

Link from Part 5: http://prince.org/msg/7/453739

Link from Part 6: http://prince.org/msg/7/453931

Link from Part 7: http://prince.org/msg/7/454023

Do not derail the thread, stick to the topic. TROLLING will be dealt with harshly.

Be civil. All rules apply.

Thanks.

Carver County Sheriff's Office link: https://www.co.carver.mn....estigation

WARNING: Do NOT post the death picture of Prince (blurred or not), show respect. Those that do will be dealt with harshly.

Press Conference video:
http://video.startribune....480279253/

Please post on new thread - Part 9 http://prince.org/msg/7/454164 to continue discussion. Part 8 got wayyyy too long.

shednz said:

jtfolden said:

I'm not sure what you mean... it seems pretty clear that Prince didn't know there was Fentanyl in only specific pills and he had absolutely no way of nowing one pill from another just by looking at them. The lgitimate pills, the counterfeit with lidocaine, and the counterfeit with lidocaine and fentanyl all looked the same.

He knew because the pills in the Bayer bottle were all of one type - fentanyl and licodaine; and the pills in the Aleve bottle were all licodaine. If he was actually after hydrocodone/oxycodone, as the counterfeit pills were marked, he could have taken legitimate versions of those - a bottle written out to Kirk was there - they had just got them from Walgreens. That's my understanding of events having gone through all the documentation on the NYT website. Of course, noone alive really knows, well maybe Kirk. But that's just my reading of the evidence. Which parts of the evidence makes you think he was actually after real watson 853s and took the fentanyl thinking it was hydrocodone?

If Prince wanted Fentanyl, he could have just bought that...

There's no evidence Prince knew he was buying pills that contained Fentenyl and even more importantly there's no evidence he thought they contained anything but hydrocodone. His seeming pushback in Moline (I know my body) and to Judith and Dr S seems to support that too (it wasn't the pills, it was the narcan... it wasn't the pills, it was the soup).

If you look at all the other pills tested from the various other locations, there were pills of all three types spread around the residence and sometimes mixed - including two CVS Vitamin C bottles each containing something different AND one of them containing a mix of REAL and counterfeit hydrocodone tablets). So things really weren't organized all that well. It seems more practical a reason that they are seperated as that's how he received them (and each bottle contained a mixture of two DNA samples - one was Prince's and the other could have been the supplier...) OR Prince simply put them in different bottles each time as they came into his possession. On the night of 4/20 both the Aleve and Bayer bottles ended up on his nightstand. It really was 50/50 which one he might grab to take pills from...

The final conclusion by the sheriff's office was that Prince did NOT know they had Fentanyl in them, either.

I don't think the family are aiming their lawsuit at the right people, Walgreens were just doing the prescription the Dr. had given.

If it's against anyone is should be Dr. Schulenberg for illegally prescribing under another name. The hospital in Moline actually sounded very comptetent and Dr's repeatedly asked Prince searching queations about his feelings and for blood and EKG samples but he refused.

They also wanted him to stay longer but he refused, that's not their fault.

They should be aiming any lawsuit at the police for making a lot of bungling errors such as not sealing off Paisley Park from everyone on 4/21, not taking his computer before it was tampered with and not arresting for quetioning the key players - Meron, Phaedra and Kirk after they refused to give proper police statements.

They also failed to get fingerprints from Prince which would have significantly aided the investigation.

Remember that the police never spoke to the person who actually found the body, allegedly it was Shaun Powell, a bodyguard, so without this info I don't really know how conclusions can be made about where he was, as when the police arrived he had already been moved by paramedics in order to resuscitate him.

[Edited 4/23/18 22:53pm]

[Edited 4/23/18 22:54pm]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Another theory, pure conjecture but just came up - thre is a suspiciously long time gap from Kirk going to the airport and returning to PP with Andrew on the morning of 4/21. Are we sure they weren't already at PP, Andrew was 'experimenting' by trying to work on Prince but using drugs he wasn't licenced to give but it went wrong so to protect his name and reputation they made it out that he had OD'ed himself?

There's no evidence to base any of this on at all and really not that long of a gap after arrival. They know when AK arrived, when he checked into the airport, where they ate breakfast, etc... they know when Kirk and others tried calling PP, etc...

Also, ummm, they know which drugs Prince had taken and none of them were anything AK brought with him. They also have an estimated time of death, which was likely well before AK even landed in the airport. Also, Prince's last known contact with anyone in the world was at 10:03PM the night prior.

Remember that the police never spoke to the person who actually found the body, allegedgly it was Shaun Powell, a bodyguard, so without this info I don't really know how conclusions can be made about where he was, as when the police arrived he had already been moved by paramedics in order to resuscitate him.

[Edited 4/23/18 22:25pm]

So the info they received from the Fire Chief and paramedics (in addition to KJ, MB, and AK) are unreliable? Also, there was evidence in the elevator that what happened to Prince happened there.

jtfolden said:

shednz said:

He knew because the pills in the Bayer bottle were all of one type - fentanyl and licodaine; and the pills in the Aleve bottle were all licodaine. If he was actually after hydrocodone/oxycodone, as the counterfeit pills were marked, he could have taken legitimate versions of those - a bottle written out to Kirk was there - they had just got them from Walgreens. That's my understanding of events having gone through all the documentation on the NYT website. Of course, noone alive really knows, well maybe Kirk. But that's just my reading of the evidence. Which parts of the evidence makes you think he was actually after real watson 853s and took the fentanyl thinking it was hydrocodone?

If Prince wanted Fentanyl, he could have just bought that...

There's no evidence Prince knew he was buying pills that contained Fentenyl and even more importantly there's no evidence he thought they contained anything but hydrocodone. His seeming pushback in Moline (I know my body) and to Judith and Dr S seems to support that too (it wasn't the pills, it was the narcan... it wasn't the pills, it was the soup).

If you look at all the other pills tested from the various other locations, there were pills of all three types spread around the residence and sometimes mixed - including two CVS Vitamin C bottles each containing something different AND one of them containing a mix of REAL and counterfeit hydrocodone tablets). So things really weren't organized all that well. It seems more practical a reason that they are seperated as that's how he received them (and each bottle contained a mixture of two DNA samples - one was Prince's and the other could have been the supplier...) OR Prince simply put them in different bottles each time as they came into his possession. On the night of 4/20 both the Aleve and Bayer bottles ended up on his nightstand. It really was 50/50 which one he might grab to take pills from...

The final conclusion by the sheriff's office was that Prince did NOT know they had Fentanyl in them, either.

The push back from Prince is classic addict behaviour - deceit and denial. The bottle that did have mixed drugs had lidocaine and hydrocodone in the same vitamin bottle. No fentanyl in there. There were other pills that were the fentanyl/lidocaine mix around the place - e.g. in the tissue. It was the bayer bottle that he seemed to be clinging to. Yep, the county attorney argues that "Prince had no idea he was taking a counterfeit pill that could kill him" and that's what'll go in the history books, but my reading of the evidence argues that he did know what he was taking. I couldn't guess whether this was "addiction rules over risk" behaviour, or he was doing something more purposeful. Of course, my reading is coloured by my own experiences of 36 years of Prince famdom and my own experience with people with addictions, so it ain't gospel, it's just my reading and I don't have the legitimacy that the county attorney has. Prince is the only one who knew for sure. Oh, and Kirk probably has some idea. RIP. Back to the music.

Lovejunky said:

errr ????

NotACleverName said:
That first quote is funny....thanks for the chuckle. You have a different view of it, I'll admit.

And the computer, grave error. You are correct. I'm going to check my notes (if I can't find it there, will go back to the files), but didn't someone mention that the MacBook was an innocuous computer and Prince only used it for show reviews, etc?

Nah, still doesn't make it ok. Thanks for reminding me. At least they were professional enough to admit they made an enormous error.

THANKS FOR taking my response in such great spirit NOTACLEVERNAME

Prince's Friends Fiercely Guarded His Privacy, Complicating Overdose Investigation

https://mobile.nytimes.co...ation.html

Prince heirs sue Illinois hospital over care during overdose

AMY FORLITI,Associated Press 5 hours ago

Prince's heirs file wrong...s death »

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — Prince's heirs have sued Walgreens and the Illinois hospital that treated the music superstar after he suffered from an opioid overdose, alleging that a doctor and various pharmacists failed to provide Prince with reasonable care, contributing to his death.

luv4u said:

Is this a legit quote or irony?

It just reminds me of a quote from either Tyka or Sharon Nelson from the Liz Jones bio from the late 90s, Slave To The Rhythm, where she said all his friends are on the payroll.

[Edited 4/24/18 1:17am]

SoulAlive said:

Prince heirs sue Illinois hospital over care during overdose

AMY FORLITI,Associated Press 5 hours ago

Prince's heirs file wrong...s death »

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — Prince's heirs have sued Walgreens and the Illinois hospital that treated the music superstar after he suffered from an opioid overdose, alleging that a doctor and various pharmacists failed to provide Prince with reasonable care, contributing to his death.

Let's not forget those confidentiality agreements Prince made everyone sign. Could it be possible there's something in them which states the person cannot divulge anything related to his personal life, his habits, etc, and for that reason some people are refusing to acnowledge anything related to his pain pill dependency? Would they not be obliged to break confidentiality both once Prince was dead and there was a police investigation going on?
I remember Meron stating something to that intent, like she was not sure how much she could actually say. Still, she later chose not to say anything at all, perhaps after consulting with a lawyer, (they all lawyered up pretty soon) and the Police did not follow up interviews with the 3 people who actually dealt with Prince on a daily basis, two of them having been the persons who actually found him dead. Oh, mnot to mention the overnight security guard that supposedly found him, he was not interviews also.

There's a lot I don't get in this whole investigation, tbh....

dandan said:

SoulAlive said:

Prince heirs sue Illinois hospital over care during overdose

They are just taking the oppertunity to sue somebody for the payday. If they were genuinely doing it for Prince they would have helped him in life.

I bet they were pouring through the documents going 'who have we got the best chance at suing?'

Instead of suing the doctors and nurses who just went to work that day without knowing what was going to transpire, the family could start asking questions to the people who neglected and enabled Prince. But they won't of course, because that doesn't net them any $$$

At this stage I believe nothing was done for Prince or his memory, it was all for them. Tributes, celebrations, books, songs, tattoos, tshirts. The lot.

MMJas said:

SoulAlive said:

Prince heirs sue Illinois hospital over care during overdose

AMY FORLITI,Associated Press 5 hours ago

Prince's heirs file wrong...s death »

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — Prince's heirs have sued Walgreens and the Illinois hospital that treated the music superstar after he suffered from an opioid overdose, alleging that a doctor and various pharmacists failed to provide Prince with reasonable care, contributing to his death.

They will lose. Prince was treated, left the hospital under his own steam. Should they have held a grown man prisoner?

As for Walgreens, they just dispense prescriptions provided by the doctor.

Throw money away on a frivolous lawsuit, why not?! As i said, they will lose.

"Come back Prizefight,comback"

If you still drop by here prizefight it would great to hear your thoughts in light of the current release of information.

I don't post often but I remember reading Prizefights thoughts when she/he posted and thinking he or she knows and is bang on

I will add before it was common knowledge Prizefight knew Prince had a hip replacement at the Mayo Clinic in late 2009.

When I lived in the States i met some associates Prince's name came up in conversation. One of the groups family members was there.

We were innocently giggling about stories of his designer purple PJ's and the staff calling him Princeypoo.

It does't feel so innocent now as it could well of been the start of a horrid addiction.

bondno9 said:

Andif he did come out and admit having issues .. how do you think people would have treated him? With compassion? or disdain? You admit being "pissed" off ... how do you think he would have received that type of attitude on a larger scale from fans? Probably as a form of judgment.

Rebeljuice said:

I think Prince thought the OD on the plane was due to him mixing his pills. He told JH as much. I think he took a fentanyl laced pill and one of those Tylenol/Codeine pills that he declared to the docs in Moline. It took 4mg of narcan to revive him. That is a lot. If he was convinced the OD was due to the mixing (afterall, the fentanyl pill was labeled as a more innocent Vicodin), he may well have thought the "Vicodin" pills were safe on their own. Hence why he reached for them again.


As his fans we have always thought Prince to be clean living and above the temptations of drugs, alchohol, cigarettes and even meat. We have all been proud of our favourite artist's clean living and often used to mention it when in discussion with non fans. So many greats have died of drug over doses and we were proud that our Prince was not like that. This is why the last two years have been tough. This is also why so many of us have come up with conspiracy theories and alternative realities to try and explain what seems inexplicable. Prince was an habitual drug user? Impossible!

Well, the facts are in. There was no underlying illness. There was no conspiracy for murder. This was not a new problem that started a year or two before his death. Prince was addicted to opioids for a long time and his denial combined with his need for utter secrecy meant that there was no help for him until it was too late. Our clean living Prince wasn't as clean as we thought and in a way that really pisses me off.

I have no doubt it all started with pain. But as someone pointed out in this thread, it seemed that pain was no longer at the forefront of the problem. Prince was simply addicted and needed his drugs to prevent the chaos of withdrawals. I don't think it was about obtaining a high. Opioids are not like heroin or extacy or acid. There isn't really a high as such. But when you get to the stage where you need to take the pills in order to function normally, then you know there is a problem. Without the pills all hell breaks loose. With them life can almost feel normal. Not entirely normal mind you because there are side affects and consequences - constipation, sleeplessness, paranoia, groginess etc. But those side affects are a lot more palitable than withdrawals. And when you think you are in control and in denial about the extent of the problem, there is no reason to seek help.

Maybe someone will grow some balls and tell the truth behind it all one day. Or maybe there isn't anyone to tell the truth behind it all because no one actually knows the full extent of his problems - just how Prince wanted it. And that is what pisses me off. Prince painted a clean living image of himself and put everything at risk to keep that persona alive, even when the walls were crumbling down around him. He would rather be a hypocrite and lie than hold his hand up and say "ok, I got a few issues. im gonna go away for a while, get well and come back even stronger". But he didn't.

After two years of speculation and guess work to try and make Prince, the persona, fit into this drug narrative, we end up back where we started. The only real story here is the one that came out the day he died - Prince died of a drug overdose. And that is all there is to it because if you are addicted to any kind of drug, there is a very good chance that drug will kill you in the end, especially if you deny there is a problem and refuse help from anyone. The hows and whys dont really matter anymore. An investigation took place and there was nothing to find except a deeply secretive drug user who had trouble facing up to his problems. Prince was an addict that lost the fight. It's as simple as that.

It seems to me that fentanyl was his drug of choice and he chose that over reaching out for help until it was too late - the same story that many an addict, past and present has opted to take part in. Addiction does not discriminate against any sector of society. Fame and fortune do not give you a free pass. The final judgement is that he was an addict who overdosed, and that judgement far outweighs any judgement he may have received had he held his hands up and asked for help.*

If he had asked for help no doubt the reaction would have been all over the place with the KKOOL club on one side and the Bart club on the other, and everything else inbetween - judgmental, critical, praise, love, hope, disdain, horror, scepticism, disbelief, humour.... The whole shebang. But once he came back with a new album, all that would have been forgotten and we would all be arguing over the new music instead... Brilliant, genius, shit, sell out, best ever, worst ever, he was better when he was high, never been this good, boring, mediocre, funky, too long, too short etc etc...

The point being, whatever the judgement he received from his fans and the media would have been temporary. This final judgement that hangs over him now is permanent.

Most importantly though, he would have been alive today and that surely has to be better than any sticks and stones that were thrown at him for wanting to stay alive.

Unfortunetely for him he surrounded himself with people that didn't have the balls to tell it to his face. And he didn't have the balls to face the temporary shame he would have felt owning up.*

*I say all this as a recovering heroin addict who has been clean for 25 years. It takes balls, big fucking balls to own up to the problem, and caring family and friends with big enough balls to call time out on your bullshit. Prince didnt have them and neither did his "friends" and family.

OperatingThetan said:

If the heirs suing the hospital and a pharmacy results in Prince's autopsy or even more personal details being released, only they are responsible. The litigation is absurd. Walgreens is merely a pharmacy filing prescriptions issued by doctors. The Illinois hospital found Prince to be non-compliant. They cannot force a patient to have blood tests or any other care or treatment. It's called patient autonomy.

Whilst I have no feelings for the family one way or another, I think the lawyers around them have their claws in deep and are rinsing them left, right and centre. This is just another way of extracting money out of the estate and into their pockets. They surely know there is no winnable case here.

I get that the family see a pot of gold heading their way. I do not think any of them were close to Prince and I imagine there wasn't too much grief at his passing. I get it though. They were blessed with having a rich and famous family member and lucked out due to no will being found and the laws of the land made them heirs. Good on them. They get rich.

But now that they are in this situation show some fucking common sense!

To the family - Stop obstructing things, fire your fucking advisors and lawyers and get this estate mess cleaned up and finished. Then sell your fucking share if you want. Cash in. I don't care. All I want is some more music. Whether it comes from you or from a corporation you sold out to. It matters not. But come on people, stop being so fucking stupid on a daily basis. We now know no one is going to be charged with Prince's death. We now know enough to paint a picture of how things were and why he died. There is no need to keep up any charade that you are "protecting" anything. So just get on with the paperwork, sign what needs to be signed and then move on to pastures green.

OperatingThetan said:

If the heirs suing the hospital and a pharmacy results in Prince's autopsy or even more personal details being released, only they are responsible. The litigation is absurd. Walgreens is merely a pharmacy filing prescriptions issued by doctors. The Illinois hospital found Prince to be non-compliant. They cannot force a patient to have blood tests or any other care or treatment. It's called patient autonomy.

Never mind.

[Edited 4/24/18 3:16am]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

luv4u said:

Is this a legit quote or irony?

It just reminds me of a quote from either Tyka or Sharon Nelson from the Liz Jones bio from the late 90s, Slave To The Rhythm, where she said all his friends are on the payroll.

[Edited 4/24/18 1:17am]

Hummmm, interesting take on it. Irony, did he realize he had one of the biggest moochers on his payroll?

.

There is so much to this story that we don't know with regards to LG and CK.

.

Why isn't anyone suggesting CK and P knew of each others' drug use? They had to have!

.

I admit I never liked the LG and thought he was manipulative and evil, ever since that Larry King interview in 1999, when the first thing LG said on National TV to LK was to congratulate LK on the birth of his son. Clearly putting P in an uncomfortable spot. Then LG went on and presented himself as the star and P was lucky to have him around.....I didn't see the Sinbad Cross episode until after P passed... sheeesh, I have to stop talking

.

~DD55

As Albert Magnoli said after PRINCE died and knowing that just a week earlier he has this "incident" on the plane, he says "There were not enough or any people around him to say NO" in the end the decisions to put things into his body were PRINCE's that is something we have to come to terms with. However the addiction was caused, be it from surgery and recovery, for many that is where it starts. Johnny Mathis had a back surgery many moons ago and got hooked on Pain Killers for awhile. I dont doubt this was where things began, and also as it was said PRINCE was not taking this to "get high" people tend to confuse and eguate someone smoking a joint that kid of high to taking something like this, this all stems from something else and until WE as a society seperate the too, we can start understanding and taking each person as something different.

Forgive me if this has been posted before, but how many of the six heirs are suing? Also, as an opinion, I trust their lawyers have told them this litigation will go on for years ... The defendants are not going to roll over with millions in a quick settlement to make this go away. It is simply ridiculous.

DD55 said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Is this a legit quote or irony?

It just reminds me of a quote from either Tyka or Sharon Nelson from the Liz Jones bio from the late 90s, Slave To The Rhythm, where she said all his friends are on the payroll.

[Edited 4/24/18 1:17am]

Hummmm, interesting take on it. Irony, did he realize he had one of the biggest moochers on his payroll?

.

There is so much to this story that we don't know with regards to LG and CK.

.

Why isn't anyone suggesting CK and P knew of each others' drug use? They had to have!

.

I admit I never liked the LG and thought he was manipulative and evil, ever since that Larry King interview in 1999, when the first thing LG said on National TV to LK was to congratulate LK on the birth of his son. Clearly putting P in an uncomfortable spot. Then LG went on and presented himself as the star and P was lucky to have him around.....I didn't see the Sinbad Cross episode until after P passed... sheeesh, I have to stop talking

.

~DD55

.

.
It's a legitimate quotation - taken from Prince's 2004 Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame induction speech.
.
Just put 'Prince Induction Speech' into YT, and you'll find it.

.

Here's a question? Our 4 shadiest suspects are:

Kirky J

Meron

Phadera

Jill

Were they protecting themselves OR were they trying to protect Prince's privacy?

Kirky we know about him already + he allegedly shredded boxes of docs [WTAF!]

Meron - had a lot of cash on her [stolen?] + seemingly highly non-coperative when questioned

Phadera - according to Omar - took control - shredding docs, quickly putting togther the deals with the banks/ lawyers & accountants + paid off lots of 'suppliers' [i think the day after he passed?]

Jill - hmmmm!

Why - what is the deal here. Worst case = self protection & monetary gain OR best case = protecting Prince?

Suerly there has to be precedent to get them back in giving far more of a grilling?

Prince Received Emails From Protégé and Manager and After His Death: ‘Please Just Come Back’

https://theblast.com/prince-emails-after-death/

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

If they were really shredding boxes of documents, I wonder what could have been so incriminating that was printed on paper? Surely there were no receipts for on-line drug deals? Who has boxes of paper information laying around that would need shredding before the investigators return?

Who knows what they were shredding? could have been Prince's hand written personal notes, diary? lyrics to new songs, who knows? maybe that was more valuable to Prince than anything else - he did write everything down – the incriminating stuff who knows, maybe it was done in person.

what gets me is, how the hell did he give them access to his personal computer/gmail but only he knew the combo to the vault....

Dimitri10 said:

"Kirk has a vault, right here, it's never going to be unlocked" - Kirk Johnson