shednz said:

jtfolden said:

If Prince wanted Fentanyl, he could have just bought that...

There's no evidence Prince knew he was buying pills that contained Fentenyl and even more importantly there's no evidence he thought they contained anything but hydrocodone. His seeming pushback in Moline (I know my body) and to Judith and Dr S seems to support that too (it wasn't the pills, it was the narcan... it wasn't the pills, it was the soup).

If you look at all the other pills tested from the various other locations, there were pills of all three types spread around the residence and sometimes mixed - including two CVS Vitamin C bottles each containing something different AND one of them containing a mix of REAL and counterfeit hydrocodone tablets). So things really weren't organized all that well. It seems more practical a reason that they are seperated as that's how he received them (and each bottle contained a mixture of two DNA samples - one was Prince's and the other could have been the supplier...) OR Prince simply put them in different bottles each time as they came into his possession. On the night of 4/20 both the Aleve and Bayer bottles ended up on his nightstand. It really was 50/50 which one he might grab to take pills from...

The final conclusion by the sheriff's office was that Prince did NOT know they had Fentanyl in them, either.

The push back from Prince is classic addict behaviour - deceit and denial. The bottle that did have mixed drugs had lidocaine and hydrocodone in the same vitamin bottle. No fentanyl in there. There were other pills that were the fentanyl/lidocaine mix around the place - e.g. in the tissue. It was the bayer bottle that he seemed to be clinging to. Yep, the county attorney argues that "Prince had no idea he was taking a counterfeit pill that could kill him" and that's what'll go in the history books, but my reading of the evidence argues that he did know what he was taking. I couldn't guess whether this was "addiction rules over risk" behaviour, or he was doing something more purposeful. Of course, my reading is coloured by my own experiences of 36 years of Prince famdom and my own experience with people with addictions, so it ain't gospel, it's just my reading and I don't have the legitimacy that the county attorney has. Prince is the only one who knew for sure. Oh, and Kirk probably has some idea. RIP. Back to the music.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that Fentanyl IN PILL FORM is always illigetimate in that pharmaceutical F only comes in patches, lollipops and for IV use. SO...if he preferred F because pain relief is almost instant...his path was black market pills.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Rebeljuice said:

bondno9 said:

Andif he did come out and admit having issues .. how do you think people would have treated him? With compassion? or disdain? You admit being "pissed" off ... how do you think he would have received that type of attitude on a larger scale from fans? Probably as a form of judgment.

It seems to me that fentanyl was his drug of choice and he chose that over reaching out for help until it was too late - the same story that many an addict, past and present has opted to take part in. Addiction does not discriminate against any sector of society. Fame and fortune do not give you a free pass. The final judgement is that he was an addict who overdosed, and that judgement far outweighs any judgement he may have received had he held his hands up and asked for help.*

If he had asked for help no doubt the reaction would have been all over the place with the KKOOL club on one side and the Bart club on the other, and everything else inbetween - judgmental, critical, praise, love, hope, disdain, horror, scepticism, disbelief, humour.... The whole shebang. But once he came back with a new album, all that would have been forgotten and we would all be arguing over the new music instead... Brilliant, genius, shit, sell out, best ever, worst ever, he was better when he was high, never been this good, boring, mediocre, funky, too long, too short etc etc...

The point being, whatever the judgement he received from his fans and the media would have been temporary. This final judgement that hangs over him now is permanent.

Most importantly though, he would have been alive today and that surely has to be better than any sticks and stones that were thrown at him for wanting to stay alive.

Unfortunetely for him he surrounded himself with people that didn't have the balls to tell it to his face. And he didn't have the balls to face the temporary shame he would have felt owning up.*

*I say all this as a recovering heroin addict who has been clean for 25 years. It takes balls, big fucking balls to own up to the problem, and caring family and friends with big enough balls to call time out on your bullshit. Prince didnt have them and neither did his "friends" and family.

Rebeljuice...I am always so touched when people bare their soul to tell the truth, such a big-hearted move in an effort to rip away the tissue of lies and manipulation, junkie behaviors, that keep us from being whole and healthy and authentic. Thank you for being so tough and real. You're 100 % correct re Prince and his friends and family and associates...no one had the balls to make a difference. Everyone was weak...and weak people are dangerous.

kmama07 said:

luv4u said:

I think part of the "people roaming free" thing is that the police don't really have unfettered legal authority to deny people access to their private property. They need warrants and probable cause and I don't know they had that.

-

One thing that's weird about the laptop is that it's not like someone needs to go on a certain computer to delete emails from gmail; you can access a gmail account from anywhere. So I don't know if the person used that specific computer because perhaps they didn't know the password but Prince had left the account logged into from there.

Purplebflogirl said:

As it's been documented.. Someone deleted emails on 4/23. Why were people allowed to roam free at P.P.? Why wasn't his manager forced to give the police a statement? She was in control of at least some of money as she sent $ to Susan & Brenda.What was Meron doing with ALOT of money on her? Especially after look in at photos..he had $ laying all over

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

kmama07 said:

Good question. My understanding is you are correct. I work with hospice patients and have never seen those who use fentanyl take it in pill form. That's not to say they don't exist but I've not seen them.

It comes in buccal tablets. It is not meant to be swallowed in this form, but it is a tablet

Oh yeah, remember our back-and-forth positing that he injested the F in a suppository form?...maybe that's why LE was so interested to doing a DNA and drug assay on the half-empty enema bottles...maybe that's how he dosed himself when he was vomiting, couldn't keep food down while telling everyone he had the flu..

Rebeljuice said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Is there different investigation file for the DEA that has not been released yet?

shednz: I don't know but it's possible he was after hydrocodone/oxycodone. If I'm understanding this correctly but according to the ME P's toxicology screening showed prescription medications oxycodone and hydrocodone in his urine but none in the blood. But yet, high level of fentanyl in the blood (????). His visit from 4-20 showed hydrocodone 253 ng/ml and hydromorphone 87 ng/ml but no fentanyl in blood. So it appears both autospy and visit from Dr. S showed hydrocodone.

jtfolden said:

shednz said:

He knew because the pills in the Bayer bottle were all of one type - fentanyl and licodaine; and the pills in the Aleve bottle were all licodaine. If he was actually after hydrocodone/oxycodone, as the counterfeit pills were marked, he could have taken legitimate versions of those - a bottle written out to Kirk was there - they had just got them from Walgreens. That's my understanding of events having gone through all the documentation on the NYT website. Of course, noone alive really knows, well maybe Kirk. But that's just my reading of the evidence. Which parts of the evidence makes you think he was actually after real watson 853s and took the fentanyl thinking it was hydrocodone?

If Prince wanted Fentanyl, he could have just bought that...

There's no evidence Prince knew he was buying pills that contained Fentenyl and even more importantly there's no evidence he thought they contained anything but hydrocodone. His seeming pushback in Moline (I know my body) and to Judith and Dr S seems to support that too (it wasn't the pills, it was the narcan... it wasn't the pills, it was the soup).

If you look at all the other pills tested from the various other locations, there were pills of all three types spread around the residence and sometimes mixed - including two CVS Vitamin C bottles each containing something different AND one of them containing a mix of REAL and counterfeit hydrocodone tablets). So things really weren't organized all that well. It seems more practical a reason that they are seperated as that's how he received them (and each bottle contained a mixture of two DNA samples - one was Prince's and the other could have been the supplier...) OR Prince simply put them in different bottles each time as they came into his possession. On the night of 4/20 both the Aleve and Bayer bottles ended up on his nightstand. It really was 50/50 which one he might grab to take pills from...

The final conclusion by the sheriff's office was that Prince did NOT know they had Fentanyl in them, either.

KiowaTrl said:

"Kirk has a vault, right here, it's never going to be unlocked" - Kirk Johnson

bondno9 said:

shednz: I don't know but it's possible he was after hydrocodone/oxycodone. If I'm understanding this correctly but according to the ME P's toxicology screening showed prescription medications oxycodone and hydrocodone in his urine but none in the blood. But yet, high level of fentanyl in the blood (????). His visit from 4-20 showed hydrocodone 253 ng/ml and hydromorphone 87 ng/ml but no fentanyl in blood. So it appears both autospy and visit from Dr. S showed hydrocodone.

jtfolden said:

If Prince wanted Fentanyl, he could have just bought that...

There's no evidence Prince knew he was buying pills that contained Fentenyl and even more importantly there's no evidence he thought they contained anything but hydrocodone. His seeming pushback in Moline (I know my body) and to Judith and Dr S seems to support that too (it wasn't the pills, it was the narcan... it wasn't the pills, it was the soup).

If you look at all the other pills tested from the various other locations, there were pills of all three types spread around the residence and sometimes mixed - including two CVS Vitamin C bottles each containing something different AND one of them containing a mix of REAL and counterfeit hydrocodone tablets). So things really weren't organized all that well. It seems more practical a reason that they are seperated as that's how he received them (and each bottle contained a mixture of two DNA samples - one was Prince's and the other could have been the supplier...) OR Prince simply put them in different bottles each time as they came into his possession. On the night of 4/20 both the Aleve and Bayer bottles ended up on his nightstand. It really was 50/50 which one he might grab to take pills from...

The final conclusion by the sheriff's office was that Prince did NOT know they had Fentanyl in them, either.

God Bless everyone here for caring so much and for trying so desperately to understand exactly how we lost our beloved Prince...but it seems to me that the only conclusion that will be standing at the end of our endless analyses is that he was a functioning addict whose body was breaking down from long-term drug use...and then he overdosed...not an unusual end to an all-too-common story.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Oh yeah, remember our back-and-forth positing that he injested the F in a suppository form?...maybe that's why LE was so interested to doing a DNA and drug assay on the half-empty enema bottles...maybe that's how he dosed himself when he was vomiting, couldn't keep food down while telling everyone he had the flu..

I thought that the minute I heard that he had a bunch of empty enemas, also I did see some type of suppositories in the evidence photos

The suppositories were from Andrews bag along with the pills he brought with him.

nelcp777 said:

Is there different investigation file for the DEA that has not been released yet?

DEA investigative records and search warrants have not been released.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

kmama07 said: It comes in buccal tablets. It is not meant to be swallowed in this form, but it is a tablet

Oh yeah, remember our back-and-forth positing that he injested the F in a suppository form?...maybe that's why LE was so interested to doing a DNA and drug assay on the half-empty enema bottles...maybe that's how he dosed himself when he was vomiting, couldn't keep food down while telling everyone he had the flu..

Bodhit, you were right on so many fronts and you did it without having access to the actual files. You were astute and could see right thru the mirage, the facade, the lies. Maybe some will recognize how much more important that is vs. downloading a snap shot of his last dayz .

I remember some of the old timers bashing you for what is now public knowledge and FACTS. Some of them wanted you banned. Some preferred to hurl wild accusations and falsehoods thru their secret channels concerning you.

Most of these newcomers have no idea what you went thru to uncover a most sinister and diabolical culture that was buried beneath the vanity. When they were praising him, you knew. When they were praising his friends, you knew. When they were praising his sister, you knew. The resistance was fierce, and by all logical measures, ignorant. Hopefully, the "newbies" will be motivated by your insightful and resourceful spear that has pierced the veil of all things hidden.

Lastly, you have been steadfast in separating the man, who is merely flesh and blood, from the music.


Indeed , a well balanced and clear overview of the duality we now see on display. Onward.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Oh yeah, remember our back-and-forth positing that he injested the F in a suppository form?...maybe that's why LE was so interested to doing a DNA and drug assay on the half-empty enema bottles...maybe that's how he dosed himself when he was vomiting, couldn't keep food down while telling everyone he had the flu..

Bodhit, you were right on so many fronts and you did it without having access to the actual files. You were astute and could see right thru the mirage, the facade, the lies. Maybe some will recognize how much more important that is vs. downloading a snap shot of his last dayz .

I remember some of the old timers bashing you for what is now public knowledge and FACTS. Some of them wanted you banned. Some preferred to hurl wild accusations and falsehoods thru their secret channels concerning you.

Most of these newcomers have no idea what you went thru to uncover a most sinister and diabolical culture that was buried beneath the vanity. When they were praising him, you knew. When they were praising his friends, you knew. When they were praising his sister, you knew. The resistance was fierce, and by all logical measures, ignorant. Hopefully, the "newbies" will be motivated by your insightful and resourceful spear that has pierced the veil of all things hidden.

Lastly, you have been steadfast in separating the man, who is merely flesh and blood, from the music.


Indeed , a well balanced and clear overview of the duality we now see on display. Onward.

That's the truth Menes, people put Bodhi thru hell.

PennyPurple said:

I agree about bodhi's insights -- he's shown a lot of level-headedness

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Bodhit, you were right on so many fronts and you did it without having access to the actual files. You were astute and could see right thru the mirage, the facade, the lies. Maybe some will recognize how much more important that is vs. downloading a snap shot of his last dayz .

I remember some of the old timers bashing you for what is now public knowledge and FACTS. Some of them wanted you banned. Some preferred to hurl wild accusations and falsehoods thru their secret channels concerning you.

Most of these newcomers have no idea what you went thru to uncover a most sinister and diabolical culture that was buried beneath the vanity. When they were praising him, you knew. When they were praising his friends, you knew. When they were praising his sister, you knew. The resistance was fierce, and by all logical measures, ignorant. Hopefully, the "newbies" will be motivated by your insightful and resourceful spear that has pierced the veil of all things hidden.

Lastly, you have been steadfast in separating the man, who is merely flesh and blood, from the music.


Indeed , a well balanced and clear overview of the duality we now see on display. Onward.

That's the truth Menes, people put Bodhi thru hell.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Bodhit, you were right on so many fronts and you did it without having access to the actual files. You were astute and could see right thru the mirage, the facade, the lies. Maybe some will recognize how much more important that is vs. downloading a snap shot of his last dayz .

I remember some of the old timers bashing you for what is now public knowledge and FACTS. Some of them wanted you banned. Some preferred to hurl wild accusations and falsehoods thru their secret channels concerning you.

Most of these newcomers have no idea what you went thru to uncover a most sinister and diabolical culture that was buried beneath the vanity. When they were praising him, you knew. When they were praising his friends, you knew. When they were praising his sister, you knew. The resistance was fierce, and by all logical measures, ignorant. Hopefully, the "newbies" will be motivated by your insightful and resourceful spear that has pierced the veil of all things hidden.

Lastly, you have been steadfast in separating the man, who is merely flesh and blood, from the music.


Indeed , a well balanced and clear overview of the duality we now see on display. Onward.

That's the truth Menes, people put Bodhi thru hell.

Penny, you've done a great job of compiling the facts that some seem to have an adverse reaction to. It is as if their minds are deeply affected by fantasies unabashed. I commend you for having the courage to post it all and letting the chips fall where they may. Ignore the "happy" crowd that thinks that his is a story unscathed. These are those who believe that a mere mortal is impervious to all things .

As we now evidence, most of the naysayers can not handle the truth and have either retreated into the inner regions of a kangaroo pouch, or continually attempt to switch the narrative. At some point, this (3) sided angle of what truth is, will be narrowed down to one singular source.

PennyPurple said:

KiowaTrl said:

"Kirk has a vault, right here, it's never going to be unlocked" - Kirk Johnson

No surprize he wouldn't/couldn't answer the questions from that awful reporter. Interviewers should be better at getting people to talk than that trainwreck. Of course everybody "lawyered up", you would too, even if you saw or knew nothing. The nature of the legal beast.

As far as participating in this thread or not, people will come here and drop off when they want. Suggesting people leave the thread because of their perspective is wrong. No one cares about Prince or "the truth" more than anyone else. We are all flailing around here if you actually read the whole thread.

Using the argument that this is a public website and the records are public so if you don't like it, leave, is flawed. One opinion about the same information is not more valid than another on this forum, period. That's what being public really means, everybody here is at risk of having their perspective challenged. No one is fully in control here, as as the mods would probably agree.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Oh yeah, remember our back-and-forth positing that he injested the F in a suppository form?...maybe that's why LE was so interested to doing a DNA and drug assay on the half-empty enema bottles...maybe that's how he dosed himself when he was vomiting, couldn't keep food down while telling everyone he had the flu..

Bodhit, you were right on so many fronts and you did it without having access to the actual files. You were astute and could see right thru the mirage, the facade, the lies. Maybe some will recognize how much more important that is vs. downloading a snap shot of his last dayz .

I remember some of the old timers bashing you for what is now public knowledge and FACTS. Some of them wanted you banned. Some preferred to hurl wild accusations and falsehoods thru their secret channels concerning you.

Most of these newcomers have no idea what you went thru to uncover a most sinister and diabolical culture that was buried beneath the vanity. When they were praising him, you knew. When they were praising his friends, you knew. When they were praising his sister, you knew. The resistance was fierce, and by all logical measures, ignorant. Hopefully, the "newbies" will be motivated by your insightful and resourceful spear that has pierced the veil of all things hidden.

Lastly, you have been steadfast in separating the man, who is merely flesh and blood, from the music.


Indeed , a well balanced and clear overview of the duality we now see on display. Onward.

Jesus, Menes...first you only save me a swig from that bottle of the good stuff...and now you've made me cry...for real. I am deeply grateful for your sweet words..but they are words of recognition of a kindred spirit for YOU have been an inspiration and solace to me. Just as no one here gets out alive and we are ALL flawed and suffering and trying to figure out how to survive this thing called life...I believe the best, and perhaps the quickest, path forward toward the light is the one marked truth and honesty....and compassion. All Day/All Night. Thank you for everything...it means a lot.

[Edited 4/24/18 8:24am]

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Bodhit, you were right on so many fronts and you did it without having access to the actual files. You were astute and could see right thru the mirage, the facade, the lies. Maybe some will recognize how much more important that is vs. downloading a snap shot of his last dayz .

I remember some of the old timers bashing you for what is now public knowledge and FACTS. Some of them wanted you banned. Some preferred to hurl wild accusations and falsehoods thru their secret channels concerning you.

Most of these newcomers have no idea what you went thru to uncover a most sinister and diabolical culture that was buried beneath the vanity. When they were praising him, you knew. When they were praising his friends, you knew. When they were praising his sister, you knew. The resistance was fierce, and by all logical measures, ignorant. Hopefully, the "newbies" will be motivated by your insightful and resourceful spear that has pierced the veil of all things hidden.

Lastly, you have been steadfast in separating the man, who is merely flesh and blood, from the music.


Indeed , a well balanced and clear overview of the duality we now see on display. Onward.

That's the truth Menes, people put Bodhi thru hell.

Dear Penny...thank you so much for being there for me as I battled through feeling so hurt and confused at the things that were being said about me as I tried to articulate what I saw as Prince's HEROIC journey toward becoming Prince. Just because it ended the way it did did not mean he wasn't a magical soul...it just meant he was human. Much love.

Well, remember Stevie Nicks? People nearly crucified her. Called her every name under the sun.

"“I think when you’re in that much pain, and you’re somebody who has made it your life’s work to preach about the downfall of people that do drugs, that had to be a [burden]. I think that broke his heart.”

"She calls fentanyl, “the worst of the worst; way stronger than heroin, morphine, anything—and [Prince] was having to take it because I think he was probably fractured from his neck down to his feet.”

I myself got a lot of stick for saying I believed Prince had been using pain pills for a long time, that he was a functioning addict, that I thought Kirk was shady, that imo there was something off with Tyka, that I thought the associates were making money off his death, that Sheila had no right add the butterfly to the symbol and sell that as merchandise (instead of limiting it to a personal tattoo), that Prince did not seem close to his relatives, that for some reason I did not trust LG, that I hated the idea of the Prince Food Experience, that i did not think it was right to open up PP to the public whilst there was an ongoing investigation, that there was too many poeple riding the purple wave, and so on.

[Edited 4/24/18 8:36am]

Btw, where is Zenarose?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

That's the truth Menes, people put Bodhi thru hell.

Dear Penny...thank you so much for being there for me as I battled through feeling so hurt and confused at the things that were being said about me as I tried to articulate what I saw as Prince's HEROIC journey toward becoming Prince. Just because it ended the way it did did not mean he wasn't a magical soul...it just meant he was human. Much love.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

That's the truth Menes, people put Bodhi thru hell.

Penny, you've done a great job of compiling the facts that some seem to have an adverse reaction to. It is as if their minds are deeply affected by fantasies unabashed. I commend you for having the courage to post it all and letting the chips fall where they may. Ignore the "happy" crowd that thinks that his is a story unscathed. These are those who believe that a mere mortal is impervious to all things .

As we now evidence, most of the naysayers can not handle the truth and have either retreated into the inner regions of a kangaroo pouch, or continually attempt to switch the narrative. At some point, this (3) sided angle of what truth is, will be narrowed down to one singular source.

I'm not used to people being nice to me.

We were all just so mislead by other posters that we didn't know what to believe.

Rebeljuice said:

bondno9 said:

Andif he did come out and admit having issues .. how do you think people would have treated him? With compassion? or disdain? You admit being "pissed" off ... how do you think he would have received that type of attitude on a larger scale from fans? Probably as a form of judgment.

It seems to me that fentanyl was his drug of choice and he chose that over reaching out for help until it was too late - the same story that many an addict, past and present has opted to take part in. Addiction does not discriminate against any sector of society. Fame and fortune do not give you a free pass. The final judgement is that he was an addict who overdosed, and that judgement far outweighs any judgement he may have received had he held his hands up and asked for help.*

If he had asked for help no doubt the reaction would have been all over the place with the KKOOL club on one side and the Bart club on the other, and everything else inbetween - judgmental, critical, praise, love, hope, disdain, horror, scepticism, disbelief, humour.... The whole shebang. But once he came back with a new album, all that would have been forgotten and we would all be arguing over the new music instead... Brilliant, genius, shit, sell out, best ever, worst ever, he was better when he was high, never been this good, boring, mediocre, funky, too long, too short etc etc...

The point being, whatever the judgement he received from his fans and the media would have been temporary. This final judgement that hangs over him now is permanent.

Most importantly though, he would have been alive today and that surely has to be better than any sticks and stones that were thrown at him for wanting to stay alive.

Unfortunetely for him he surrounded himself with people that didn't have the balls to tell it to his face. And he didn't have the balls to face the temporary shame he would have felt owning up.*

*I say all this as a recovering heroin addict who has been clean for 25 years. It takes balls, big fucking balls to own up to the problem, and caring family and friends with big enough balls to call time out on your bullshit. Prince didnt have them and neither did his "friends" and family.

Rebel, Thank you for this post. It is filled with naked truth, and void of things farcical. As I have said , my anger has turned into sincere sympathy simply because I recognize the struggle was/is real and his denial, was in effect, the catalyst for death. People spend sleeping/waking hours fixated on another drag from a mere cigarette. Genetically, they are pre-disposed to crave "x" substance . The triggers compound daily life and there are innumerable.

I agree with you concerning "shame". Some confuse shame with the " I'll do better next time". For some, there is no allowance for the next time because the brute force of shame jars the psyche in so many ways and may not allow for such compensation. These are very rigid personality types who more than likely will spiral into a world of no consequence. Coupled that with a substance as strong as an opiate that regulates mood and thoughts...you have the perfect nasty mix .

I salute you concerning your (25) year sobriety. It really does take the largest set of "cojones" to pull through. Everything has to line up just right for success. There was nothing about PP that lined up. There was nothing about his lifestyle that lined up. It was just too easy to continue doing it.

Lastly, concerning the judgment of Prince. The point you made in the post above is very pinpointed and probably the most accepted. Had he came out with a new album ( some time after Moline) , we would be debating the chorus, the breakdown, and so forth. The comparison to albums past, would be endless, and we would all bow at the altar of his work. This in fact would make the Moline fiasco temporary. What it wouldn't do is excuse the fact that his addiction would still be ongoing. At some point, we would be discussing his death and wondering what happened all over again.

disch said:

I agree about bodhi's insights -- he's shown a lot of level-headedness

PennyPurple said:

That's the truth Menes, people put Bodhi thru hell.

I cosign as well.