HatrinaHaterwitz said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

You never touch a deceased person's body, especially if the person died without any witnesses! Maybe Kirk was in shock and was freaking-out, but that is a very odd thing to do, especially when you don't know what happened or you could be interfering with an investigation. But, that's just me and my line of thinking anyways....

Nope, it's me and my line of thinking as well. NO ONE should have touched his body other than the people trained on handling such a situation.

.

Yea, and Kirk also carried Prince's body off the plane in Moline, which is odd as well. He should have let the Paramedics do that.

cloveringold85 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Nope, it's me and my line of thinking as well. NO ONE should have touched his body other than the people trained on handling such a situation.

.

Yea, and Kirk also carried Prince's body off the plane in Moline, which is odd as well. He should have let the Paramedics do that.

no, the plane landed first and they waited for the emts.

Strawberrylova123 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

I think Mayte said something about this in her book. I remember reading his name

So his definitely lying if he said he wasn't aware of prince's opiate usage

Yes, something happened in 1996. There was also the incident circa 2010 where he was found on PP grounds wandering naked, saying he was hot and it was excused away as a bad reaction to Percocet. ... and I believe there was one other time referenced that he passed out.

I do think Kirk wanted to help Prince BUT I think he also knew more than he said. There is something implied in Judith Hill's account of the events in Moline that make me think Kirk had been through this before with Prince. I also think, purely conjecture, that Meron knew a heck of a lot more than she said.

jtfolden said:

80tomato said:

can anyone tell me in what position the elevator was in when Prince was found....had he been upstairs and was on the way down or had he been on the lower floor and was on the way up

[Edited 4/22/18 14:12pm]

We can't answer which way he was going BUT we know he had been upstairs at some point. His coat and gloves were found in the hallway upstairs.

He had also used his latop (or computer, I can't remember which) up until around 10PM.

His meal the chef dropped off remained in one of the kitchens uneaten, however.

I believe it was stated that Prince had probably been dead for around 6 hours. So at some point between 10PM and 4AM, at the latest, he passed away in the elevator. He could have been alive but unconcious for a time before passing though, depending on the actual events in the elevator (such as when he vomited).

.

The sad part is that Prince was all alone and had no one to watch over him. Also, the fact that it was very late or in the wee hours of the morning, and no one was around. If only help had come sooner, they probably could have revived him. I know it's really no consolation now.

cloveringold85 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Nope, it's me and my line of thinking as well. NO ONE should have touched his body other than the people trained on handling such a situation.

.

Yea, and Kirk also carried Prince's body off the plane in Moline, which is odd as well. He should have let the Paramedics do that.

NO. Even Judith said it felt like the paramedics were taking too long... they arrived on the tarmac prior to the EMTs and were rushing to get Prince off the plane and to help.

There's no evidence anyone touched Prince in the elevator that shouldn't have *once they knew for sure he was dead* either... unless you count the fire chief.

XxAxX said:

i feel bad that we ORGers were likely also part of why he drove himself so hard and worked so hard at keeping up his image when he was feeling so bad.

we can blame his close associates all we like, but the truth is that Prince is known to have spent time on this site and there were some truly malicious things said about him here.

maybe he felt he coulodn't let his guard down with so many ugly ill-wishers lurking around, poking fun at everything from his hair to his music.

i'm sorry i ever even posted on those joke threads about did he have a rib removed? does he really have six toes? and so on.

i never really believed he was here. nor that he was in any way at all emotionally or physically fragile.

going forward in life i'm going to be super extra careful what i say - even in jest - to anyone here and elsewhere.

I love what you have said XxAxX; it's very self-reflective and accountable.

.

(I did not join the org until after his death, although I knew this site existed.)

.

I think that as much as Prince liked to say that he did not care what others think, he really did care what other people, including his fans, thought. Having watched many videos of his live performances, he feeds off of the energy of the crowd, enjoyed putting smiles on the faces of his fans in the audience, and showed delight in being at the center of their attention and adoration. Few artists besides him allow fans to come into his own home as he allowed fans to come to his shows at Paisley Park. He truly wanted to develop a relationship with his fans.

.

I wonder if he understood how much people loved him and cared for him.

.

I wonder if he spent his entire life trying to develop relationships with his fans, and with various people (especially women), as a way to fill the void of feeling that his parents did not love him, want him, or care for him. It seems that he did not have that secure attachment and trust of his parents to use as a shelter in the storms of life. He seems to have had very insecure attachment to his parents which is not his fault because he was a child when his parents divorced, his mother re-married, and his father kicked him out of his home. Unfortunately, his time as a father was so short that he did not have much of a chance to redeem himself as a father and give children of his own the love that he never received from his own parents. I feel that deep down, he was emotionally fragile due to his trust/abandonment/attachment issues that resulted from the family dysfunction of his childhood. This is not a criticism of him; it's really a criticism of his parents.

.

It's interesting. Neal Karlen wrote the following:

"Because there’s one thing I’m positive I know about Prince. After knowing him in forever alternating cycles of greater, lesser and sometimes not-at-all friendship over the last 31 years: His biggest and perhaps only fear was dying alone."

.

Source:

Letters from Prince: A Minneapolis writer remembers his relationship with a lost star

Link: http://www.startribune.co...377555951/

jtfolden said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

ThatWhiteDude said: So his definitely lying if he said he wasn't aware of prince's opiate usage

Yes, something happened in 1996. There was also the incident circa 2010 where he was found on PP grounds wandering naked, saying he was hot and it was excused away as a bad reaction to Percocet. ... and I believe there was one other time referenced that he passed out.

I do think Kirk wanted to help Prince BUT I think he also knew more than he said. There is something implied in Judith Hill's account of the events in Moline that make me think Kirk had been through this before with Prince. I also think, purely conjecture, that Meron knew a heck of a lot more than she said.

Is this a legit info or a rumor? If that's true, Why did no one feel. the. urge. to. get. him. help?

cloveringold85 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Nope, it's me and my line of thinking as well. NO ONE should have touched his body other than the people trained on handling such a situation.

.

Yea, and Kirk also carried Prince's body off the plane in Moline, which is odd as well. He should have let the Paramedics do that.

Kirk wouldn't let them board the plane.

Asenath said:

I'm interested in only reading the interviews that the police conducted. Is there just a link with the interviews of the weltons, etc all.? If so would someone be kind enough to post or point me in the right direction. I don't want to download the pictures by accident.

The Star Tribune had just the interviews and stuff 214 pages of it. Stories are limited that you can read for free on their site, so I just kept the link open all weekend. I'll try to find it for you.

jtfolden said:

I posted this in the last part of this discussion but it was closed;

Has this been mentioned yet: of all the counterfeit pills they tested only SOME of them contained Fentanyl.

I think this is important and really sad...

From all the interviews in the data dump, it seems Prince had been getting his pills via unofficial means for quite some time. Several people reported that he would obtain prescriptions in other people's names but at some point he must have started getting them "off the street".

However, the last batch he acquired were laced with Fentanyl and this is where the biggest problems began. Given the counterfeit pills both with and without Fentanyl, I think that means whatever source he was using at the end was unreliable BUT earlier batches must have done the job for him to get them again and wind up with some that had the Fentanyl.

It doesn't read at all to me like his addiction was suddenly worse or any different than it had been for quite some time BUT, BUT, BUT the pills he was taking WERE (even though they appeared to be the exact same pills to him).

Even worse, since the less dangerous pills and the Fentanyl laced ones looked the same and he had a good deal of both-every time he took a pill he had no way of knowing which batch he was taking... On the plane he probably took the normal amount of pills he typically did BUT they were the bad ones with Fentanyl. On 4/21, he again probably took the normal amount but they were the bad batch.

I also think the odd behavior that Judith talks about, him wanting to sleep so much, talk oddly, and some of the health issues he discussed during those few weeks were caused by the Fentanyl (such as vomiting during the night that ast week or so.

So, this bad batch of pills made his addiction to pain killers more obvious to everyone around him and more immediately dangerous to him - and t's obvious it was an issue he needed to deal with BUT the reports don't read like his addition or pain was suddenly spiraling out of control.

.

The dangers of Opiate use is that it's only meant to be taken for a short period of time. Prince's body became immune to the effects, much like an alcoholic needs to drink more and more to get the same effect, etc. (although completely different).

.

His body had built-up a tolerance to the Opiates, and that was very dangerous. He probably thought in his mind, "I need just a little more to ween off the pain today.", and then that was it--the last and final pill(s). The fact that he wasn't getting any professional help or treatment was a recipe for disaster. All he had to do was get help, and he would still be with us.

.

With that said...I don't think Prince wanted his life to end.......he just wanted the pain to end.

cloveringold85 said:

.

The sad part is that Prince was all alone and had no one to watch over him. Also, the fact that it was very late or in the wee hours of the morning, and no one was around. If only help had come sooner, they probably could have revived him. I know it's really no consolation now.

If not for the unknowingly fentantyl-laced pills then Prince would have survived to get treatment and that's the very worst thing.

I also wish Judith had stayed that whole week so someone might have been there. There is a comment in one of the reports where I *think* Judith is stating that Prince said it felt like she went back to soon.

The fact is that Meron, and maybe Kirk, were in PP until 10:30-11PM but didn't interact with him or go to the "personal side" of the building.

Of course, if anyone knew what would happen they obviously would have been there BUT this story is just full of too many missed opportunities and "what ifs".

PeteSilas said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yea, and Kirk also carried Prince's body off the plane in Moline, which is odd as well. He should have let the Paramedics do that.

no, the plane landed first and they waited for the emts.

.

I thought Kirk carried Prince off the plane?

they said they give like 3 milligrams of fentanyl to cancer patients, Prince had like 57 grams in his blood and didn't they say the pills had enough to kill him 300 times or something? haven't read everything yet, maybe 50 pages, but it's interesting if boring in parts.

jtfolden said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

ThatWhiteDude said: So his definitely lying if he said he wasn't aware of prince's opiate usage

Yes, something happened in 1996. There was also the incident circa 2010 where he was found on PP grounds wandering naked, saying he was hot and it was excused away as a bad reaction to Percocet. ... and I believe there was one other time referenced that he passed out.

I do think Kirk wanted to help Prince BUT I think he also knew more than he said. There is something implied in Judith Hill's account of the events in Moline that make me think Kirk had been through this before with Prince. I also think, purely conjecture, that Meron knew a heck of a lot more than she said.

.

ThatWhiteDude said:

jtfolden said:

Yes, something happened in 1996. There was also the incident circa 2010 where he was found on PP grounds wandering naked, saying he was hot and it was excused away as a bad reaction to Percocet. ... and I believe there was one other time referenced that he passed out.

I do think Kirk wanted to help Prince BUT I think he also knew more than he said. There is something implied in Judith Hill's account of the events in Moline that make me think Kirk had been through this before with Prince. I also think, purely conjecture, that Meron knew a heck of a lot more than she said.

Is this a legit info or a rumor? If that's true, Why did no one feel. the. urge. to. get. him. help?

It's legit in the sense that it was reported in the Carver County data dump... but it would be second hand info at that point.

jtfolden said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Is this a legit info or a rumor? If that's true, Why did no one feel. the. urge. to. get. him. help?

It's legit in the sense that it was reported in the Carver County data dump... but it would be second hand info at that point.

Oh my god

PennyPurple said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yea, and Kirk also carried Prince's body off the plane in Moline, which is odd as well. He should have let the Paramedics do that.

Kirk wouldn't let them board the plane.

.

OK

PennyPurple said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yea, and Kirk also carried Prince's body off the plane in Moline, which is odd as well. He should have let the Paramedics do that.

Kirk wouldn't let them board the plane.

Where is it stated in the reports that Kirk wouldn't "let them"? Judith says they rushed to get him off the plane to meet the EMT's which were takng too long. Otheriwse, there was no reason to keep them off the plane. One of the crew even administered oxygen to Prince while they were landing.

I'm posting this article on this thread because I think it offers some interesting insight into Prince's life, death, and psyche, all of which we are discussing on this thread.

.

Prince and The Press

by Steve Marsh

December 5, 2016

http://mspmag.com/arts-and-culture/prince-and-the-press/

.

Prince had a love-hate relationship with the local press, which had the unenviable task of covering him in his hometown.

.

.

Excerpts:

NK: Did you find that his best friends didn’t know who his other best friends were? I never had met someone who had a more segmented life.

MK: One thing that [Prince’s manager] Alan Leeds said recently: You know, Prince had classic diagnosable abandonment issues in spades, and he never really got over it. . . . All of the people, all of his lieutenants, had to adopt his MO because they thought, “This is the way it has to be done.”

.

RR [Robyne Robinson]: Always in and creating something new. I think he was lost. . . . I think he was lost for a period in the mid- to the late-’90s because his personal life was falling apart. He married Mayte, his baby died.

NK [Neal Karlen]: He never got over that. Not being able to dance [from hip and ankle problems] killed him. I really think it killed him. His babies and not being able to dance.

.

NK: I think the thing is that anyone who says that they know more than 15 percent of what his life was like is lying. He made it that way—no one knew.

SM: Is that one of the reasons why he stuck around here? Because he was protected?

RR: Yes.

.

^^^^Sure, Prince was far from being perfect. None of us are. I come from a poor, broken home and was raised by my Mother who drank very heavily. I left home when I was 18. All of those things and life experiences has made me who I am today.

.

Prince was dealing with chronic pain, and needed help. He is gone, because that help never came. We all know what mild-to-moderate pain is, but Prince was really suffering with bad, chronic pain that was probably too much to endure on his small body.

.

When you can no longer do the things you love and enjoy life, the world becomes a lonely and sad place. Sure, Prince got sad and even depressed. Losing loved one's will make anyone sad, especially losing a newborn child.

.

He stayed in Minneapolis because it was home to him. He couldn't imagine living anywhere else.

.

Prince had a tough childhood, but he had a dream, a talent and worked his ass off, and made something of himself. He rose above all of that. He was and will continue to be a great inspiration around the world. He was a prime example how you can come from virtually nothing, and change your life around.

.

He made the world a better place, because he was a part of it. He did SO much for people, especially his associates, and they all should be ashamed of themselves and their behavior in these past 2-years.......grueling 2-years!!

.

It certainly did not have to end this way.

.

.

Got this off my chest now, Whew!!

[Edited 4/22/18 15:02pm]

[Edited 4/22/18 15:07pm]

jtfolden said:

We can't answer which way he was going BUT we know he had been upstairs at some point. His coat and gloves were found in the hallway upstairs.

He had also used his latop (or computer, I can't remember which) up until around 10PM.

His meal the chef dropped off remained in one of the kitchens uneaten, however.

I believe it was stated that Prince had probably been dead for around 6 hours. So at some point between 10PM and 4AM, at the latest, he passed away in the elevator. He could have been alive but unconcious for a time before passing though, depending on the actual events in the elevator (such as when he vomited).

Did you work on the case? Just wondering when you used the word 'we' can't answer.

Notice when a celebrity dies of a drug overdose, they always say "Had been dead for about 6-hours".

ThatWhiteDude said:

jtfolden said:

Yes, something happened in 1996. There was also the incident circa 2010 where he was found on PP grounds wandering naked, saying he was hot and it was excused away as a bad reaction to Percocet. ... and I believe there was one other time referenced that he passed out.

I do think Kirk wanted to help Prince BUT I think he also knew more than he said. There is something implied in Judith Hill's account of the events in Moline that make me think Kirk had been through this before with Prince. I also think, purely conjecture, that Meron knew a heck of a lot more than she said.

Is this a legit info or a rumor? If that's true, Why did no one feel. the. urge. to. get. him. help?

sounded legit, it was given by former a manager in the report. also, the one story of the doctor telling kirk that if they had to land a plane to save him they had a class 1 drug addict on their hands (paraphrase). didn't seem to matter. money and power are potent things and most people, 99 percent will buckle under the pressure. Not just with prince but in everyday life.

jtfolden said:

PennyPurple said:

Kirk wouldn't let them board the plane.

Where is it stated in the reports that Kirk wouldn't "let them"? Judith says they rushed to get him off the plane to meet the EMT's which were takng too long. Otheriwse, there was no reason to keep them off the plane. One of the crew even administered oxygen to Prince while they were landing.

In the EMT statements.

jtfolden said:

cloveringold85 said:

jtfolden said:

I posted this in the last part of this discussion but it was closed;

Has this been mentioned yet: of all the counterfeit pills they tested only SOME of them contained Fentanyl.

I think this is important and really sad...

From all the interviews in the data dump, it seems Prince had been getting his pills via unofficial means for quite some time. Several people reported that he would obtain prescriptions in other people's names but at some point he must have started getting them "off the street".

However, the last batch he acquired were laced with Fentanyl and this is where the biggest problems began. Given the counterfeit pills both with and without Fentanyl, I think that means whatever source he was using at the end was unreliable BUT earlier batches must have done the job for him to get them again and wind up with some that had the Fentanyl.

It doesn't read at all to me like his addiction was suddenly worse or any different than it had been for quite some time BUT, BUT, BUT the pills he was taking WERE (even though they appeared to be the exact same pills to him).

Even worse, since the less dangerous pills and the Fentanyl laced ones looked the same and he had a good deal of both-every time he took a pill he had no way of knowing which batch he was taking... On the plane he probably took the normal amount of pills he typically did BUT they were the bad ones with Fentanyl. On 4/21, he again probably took the normal amount but they were the bad batch.

I also think the odd behavior that Judith talks about, him wanting to sleep so much, talk oddly, and some of the health issues he discussed during those few weeks were caused by the Fentanyl (such as vomiting during the night that ast week or so.

So, this bad batch of pills made his addiction to pain killers more obvious to everyone around him and more immediately dangerous to him - and t's obvious it was an issue he needed to deal with BUT the reports don't read like his addition or pain was suddenly spiraling out of control.

.

The dangers of Opiate use is that it's only meant to be taken for a short period of time. Prince's body became immune to the effects, much like an alcoholic needs to drink more and more to get the same effect, etc. (although completely different).

.

His body had built-up a tolerance to the Opiates, and that was very dangerous. He probably thought in his mind, "I need just a little more to ween off the pain today.", and then that was it--the last and final pill(s). The fact that he wasn't getting any professional help or treatment was a recipe for disaster. All he had to do was get help, and he would still be with us.

.

With that said...I don't think Prince wanted his life to end.......he just wanted the pain to end.

With that said...I don't think Prince wanted his life to end.......he just wanted the pain to end.

jtfolden said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

ThatWhiteDude said: So his definitely lying if he said he wasn't aware of prince's opiate usage

Yes, something happened in 1996. There was also the incident circa 2010 where he was found on PP grounds wandering naked, saying he was hot and it was excused away as a bad reaction to Percocet. ... and I believe there was one other time referenced that he passed out.

I do think Kirk wanted to help Prince BUT I think he also knew more than he said. There is something implied in Judith Hill's account of the events in Moline that make me think Kirk had been through this before with Prince. I also think, purely conjecture, that Meron knew a heck of a lot more than she said.

From

Those close to Prince worried about his use of painkillers for years

The star's insistence on privacy may have kept help at bay.

Source: http://www.startribune.co...480428763/

.

This article summarizes information from the Carver Co. investigation into Prince's death.

.

Excerpts:

"Richard Lee Peloquin, a groundskeeper at Prince's Paisley Park recording studios in Chanhassen, where Prince's body was found, told investigators that Prince was prescribed Percocet after the hip replacement surgery but he had a reaction and was running around Paisley Park naked, complaining he was hot."

"Peloquin told authorities that he contacted Prince's chiropractor about Prince's odd behavior and was told it was likely a reaction to "the Percocet leaving Prince's system." Peloquin said he had heard rumors about Prince being addicted to pain pills but that was the only incident he had witnessed."

jtfolden said:

Asenath said:

I'm interested in only reading the interviews that the police conducted. Is there just a link with the interviews of the weltons, etc all.? If so would someone be kind enough to post or point me in the right direction. I don't want to download the pictures by accident.

www.startribune.com/princ...480320833/

NY Times has the Investigation Files, if you don't want to wait to download from Carver County. Some of the text might be hard to read, but you can zoom-in. Until I can get all the files downloaded, this will suffice.

.

https://www.nytimes.com/i...iles1.html