1Sasha said:

1Sasha said:

MrNelson7 said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

1Sasha said:

Can't we all agree that Prince was not a recreational drug user but someone who used drugs to alleviate at least one medical/emotional condition, that his position and fame caused him to act in a way that contributed to his death (use of street drugs) because he did not want his addiction to become front page, tabloid news? He was human. He had flaws like we all do. But he also was a very ethical and moral person. He had good character. And he was a musical genius.

Yes...

Yes,

PennyPurple said:

Dibblekins said:

Just as an aside: withdrawal can cause seizures.

.

I know this because I run a health organisation for women with chronic conditions and a couple of them who had been on industrial strength pain-relief were (erroneously) told to just come straight off them, with no gradual weaning.

.

The result was seizures (like epilepsy). Fortunately, both were able to access a hospital and were then monitored and put on a programme which enabled slow, steady reduction of the drugs. The point being that it is incredible how fast the body can become addicted to these meds, and just how powerful their effects can be. Tryling to stop cold turkey, with no medical supervision is a very bad idea.

.
I mention this because P was described as having a 'recent history of withdrawals', AND it had been mentioned that his seizures were recommencing...It could be that his seizures at this late stage in life were actually initiated by drug withdrawal. We know he had an underlying epileptic condition; repeatedly going cold turkey might have reignited symptoms.

Where besides this forum has it been mentioned that he was having seizures again?

Exactly! And it is common knowledge-whether or not you're in the medical field, that benzodiazepines, be it Xanax or Valium are prescribed in conjunction with pain meds 9 out of 10 times for anxiety.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

1Sasha said:

Can't we all agree that Prince was not a recreational drug user but someone who used drugs to alleviate at least one medical/emotional condition, that his position and fame caused him to act in a way that contributed to his death (use of street drugs) because he did not want his addiction to become front page, tabloid news? He was human. He had flaws like we all do. But he also was a very ethical and moral person. He had good character. And he was a musical genius.

Yes...

....and that street drugs are mixed up by fools who do stupid things and that this is a terrible, terrible accident that happened to him as a result.

sonshine said:

laurarichardson said:

So what if he's the poster boy for opiate addiction

This. Right. Here. You are a sick person Laura. It's obvious your u rational bias towards drugs and addiction consumes you and makes it impossible for you to understand this entire topic. You need to excuse yourself from this thread now. Your opinions are flawed by your judgemental attitude towards people who suffer from a serious legitimate disease. You are done here.

Not everyone considers addiction a disease. Some see it as a character flaw. A weakness. Agree or not, that's how many people see it. Personally I think taking pain meds for physical pain is ok, that is what these meds were made for. Taking them for "emotional pain" (whatever that means) is not ok, because these meds were not meant for that. My opinion.

sonshine said:

1Sasha said:

Can't we all agree that Prince was not a recreational drug user but someone who used drugs to alleviate at least one medical/emotional condition, that his position and fame caused him to act in a way that contributed to his death (use of street drugs) because he did not want his addiction to become front page, tabloid news? He was human. He had flaws like we all do. But he also was a very ethical and moral person. He had good character. And he was a musical genius.

I would only add that I want the source of these fentanyl laced pills found, stopped, and put in prison for the rest of their lives so no other innocent lives are lost and so no one else has to go thru the grief that we all have this last year. His death has left a void nothing can fill and the pain of his passing will never completely go away.

One of biggest fears his that other people have died or will die from these pills. I pray the police can find who is selling them and maybe who made them. If another year goes by means more people died.

One of the things that bugs me about Kirk. If he knows where those pills came from say something even if you have to do it on the down low. I mean how can he live with himself.

1Sasha said:

laurarichardson said:

You must be reading Japanese. I am asking you a question. I did not say you said anything.

Here is another question. You seem to be pondering what Jill could be mad at?

I kind of think she would be mad at Kirk for helping Prince kill himself by obtaining those meds.

(may thoughts on what she might be mad about)

Don't make fun of people with dyslexia.

I remember reading a comment from Jill that at Denise's memorial service she saw Prince, and she thought he was on something or something was wrong with him medically. Apparently, the other girls from the 80s thought the same thing.

Not really what she said. She said something about himwas off. She attributed this feeling to her own outstandig sensitivity and almost psyshic abillity took pick up small signs. So it wasn't obvious at all.

precioux said:

PennyPurple said:

Where besides this forum has it been mentioned that he was having seizures again?

Exactly! And it is common knowledge-whether or not you're in the medical field, that benzodiazepines, be it Xanax or Valium are prescribed in conjunction with pain meds 9 out of 10 times for anxiety.

Actually it is not common knowledge. What a thing to assume. I asked numerous times would it be normal to prescribe a total of 3 anxiety drugs for a person going thru withdrawal.

Now Dr S is saying he never prescribed any controlled substances to Prince only to Kirk which now makes no sense because Prince was the one going thru the withdrawals.

[Edited 4/18/17 11:00am]

But the issue isn't whether or not it's OK. CLEARLY it's not "OK" to develop an addiction, buy black-market drugs and die of an overdose, no matter the reason you first started taking opioids. By "OK," I don't meam morally; I mean in a "life is precious" kind of way.

-

The fact is, some people are attempting to self-medicate mental-health problems with opioids, and it's causing suffering to themselves and others. The question is, as a society, how do we address this? How do we help people find other ways of dealing with mental-health issues, rather than via dangerous attempts at self-medication? Can we show these people compassion and not stigma and ridicule, because we want to save their lives?

paulludvig said:

sonshine said:

laurarichardson said: This. Right. Here. You are a sick person Laura. It's obvious your u rational bias towards drugs and addiction consumes you and makes it impossible for you to understand this entire topic. You need to excuse yourself from this thread now. Your opinions are flawed by your judgemental attitude towards people who suffer from a serious legitimate disease. You are done here.

Not everyone considers addiction a disease. Some see it as a character flaw. A weakness. Agree or not, that's how many people see it. Personally I think taking pain meds for physical pain is ok, that is what these meds were made for. Taking them for "emotional pain" (whatever that means) is not ok, because these meds were not meant for that. My opinion.

1Sasha said:

Can't we all agree that Prince was not a recreational drug user but someone who used drugs to alleviate at least one medical/emotional condition, that his position and fame caused him to act in a way that contributed to his death (use of street drugs) because he did not want his addiction to become front page, tabloid news? He was human. He had flaws like we all do. But he also was a very ethical and moral person. He had good character. And he was a musical genius.

Well, yes. Minus the "emotional condition". I don't agree with that. The rest I agree with.

paulludvig said:

sonshine said:

laurarichardson said: This. Right. Here. You are a sick person Laura. It's obvious your u rational bias towards drugs and addiction consumes you and makes it impossible for you to understand this entire topic. You need to excuse yourself from this thread now. Your opinions are flawed by your judgemental attitude towards people who suffer from a serious legitimate disease. You are done here.

Not everyone considers addiction a disease. Some see it as a character flaw. A weakness. Agree or not, that's how many people see it. Personally I think taking pain meds for physical pain is ok, that is what these meds were made for. Taking them for "emotional pain" (whatever that means) is not ok, because these meds were not meant for that. My opinion.

Thank you. The masses will take this issue and make him out to be a monster.

laurarichardson said:

precioux said:

Exactly! And it is common knowledge-whether or not you're in the medical field, that benzodiazepines, be it Xanax or Valium are prescribed in conjunction with pain meds 9 out of 10 times for anxiety.

Actually is not common knowledge. What a thing to assume. I asked numerous times would it be normal to prescribe a total of 3 anxiety drugs for a person going thru withdrawal.

Now Dr S is saying he never prescribed any controlled substances to Prince only to Kirk which now makes no sense because Prince was the one going thru the withdrawals.

Because the Dr. didn't prescribe them to Prince, he prescribed them to Kirk, so actually those scripts were Kirks, either Kirk gave them to Prince OR Prince stole some from Kirk.

Agreed

disch said:

But the issue isn't whether or not it's OK. CLEARLY it's not "OK" to develop an addiction, buy black-market drugs and die of an overdose, no matter the reason you first started taking opioids. By "OK," I don't meam morally; I mean in a "life is precious" kind of way.

-

The fact is, some people are attempting to self-medicate mental-health problems with opioids, and it's causing suffering to themselves and others. The question is, as a society, how do we address this? How do we help people find other ways of dealing with mental-health issues, rather than via dangerous attempts at self-medication? Can we show these people compassion and not stigma and ridicule, because we want to save their lives?

paulludvig said:

Not everyone considers addiction a disease. Some see it as a character flaw. A weakness. Agree or not, that's how many people see it. Personally I think taking pain meds for physical pain is ok, that is what these meds were made for. Taking them for "emotional pain" (whatever that means) is not ok, because these meds were not meant for that. My opinion.

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

Actually is not common knowledge. What a thing to assume. I asked numerous times would it be normal to prescribe a total of 3 anxiety drugs for a person going thru withdrawal.

Now Dr S is saying he never prescribed any controlled substances to Prince only to Kirk which now makes no sense because Prince was the one going thru the withdrawals.

Because the Dr. didn't prescribe them to Prince, he prescribed them to Kirk, so actually those scripts were Kirks, either Kirk gave them to Prince OR Prince stole some from Kirk.

Do we know that. The drug he died from came from a different source. Maybe Kirk has medical issues of his own?

Some people are trying to deal with their physical pain when they have no other alternative. Everyone cannot afford to sit in a rocker in pain all day. Not everyone taking pain meds is doing it due to mental health issues or recreational use their is a difference and it is not fair to lump everybody in together.

More research needs to be done on alternatives to pain treatment. This type of research has nothing to do with treating recreational drug use. I am not saying people with those issue are not important it is just not the same root cause.

disch said:

But the issue isn't whether or not it's OK. CLEARLY it's not "OK" to develop an addiction, buy black-market drugs and die of an overdose, no matter the reason you first started taking opioids. By "OK," I don't meam morally; I mean in a "life is precious" kind of way.

-

The fact is, some people are attempting to self-medicate mental-health problems with opioids, and it's causing suffering to themselves and others. The question is, as a society, how do we address this? How do we help people find other ways of dealing with mental-health issues, rather than via dangerous attempts at self-medication? Can we show these people compassion and not stigma and ridicule, because we want to save their lives?

paulludvig said:

Not everyone considers addiction a disease. Some see it as a character flaw. A weakness. Agree or not, that's how many people see it. Personally I think taking pain meds for physical pain is ok, that is what these meds were made for. Taking them for "emotional pain" (whatever that means) is not ok, because these meds were not meant for that. My opinion.

disch said:

But the issue isn't whether or not it's OK. CLEARLY it's not "OK" to develop an addiction, buy black-market drugs and die of an overdose, no matter the reason you first started taking opioids. By "OK," I don't meam morally; I mean in a "life is precious" kind of way.

-

The fact is, some people are attempting to self-medicate mental-health problems with opioids, and it's causing suffering to themselves and others. The question is, as a society, how do we address this? How do we help people find other ways of dealing with mental-health issues, rather than via dangerous attempts at self-medication? Can we show these people compassion and not stigma and ridicule, because we want to save their lives?

paulludvig said:

Not everyone considers addiction a disease. Some see it as a character flaw. A weakness. Agree or not, that's how many people see it. Personally I think taking pain meds for physical pain is ok, that is what these meds were made for. Taking them for "emotional pain" (whatever that means) is not ok, because these meds were not meant for that. My opinion.

The very definition of an "addiction" is that the body develops physical cravings for something and physical withdrawals symptoms when it doesn't get it. It is not A CHOICE one makes to become addicted. ALL pain meds are meant as a temporary measure but Drs know they are addictive and you get 3 pages of "warning" info when you fill a prescription. So the "stigma" around pain meds "addiction" is misplaced.

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said:

Because the Dr. didn't prescribe them to Prince, he prescribed them to Kirk, so actually those scripts were Kirks, either Kirk gave them to Prince OR Prince stole some from Kirk.

Do we know that. The drug he died from came from a different source. Maybe Kirk has medical issues of his own?

The thing that is strange is that the doctor was interviewed in the warrant it states that he told the police he wrote those scripts for Kirk to protect Prince's privacy. I thougth this was a crazy thing for a doctor to admit to and now he is saying he did not say it

Maybe I need to go back and read it again. Why would it be in there if he did not say it and the police would verify since Kirk told them the exact same thing?

None of it tells us where the Watson's came from.

Laura, I'm asking a favor: Please stop twisting what I or others say. It derails the discussion when you do that because it becomes confusing to follow.

-

No where did I say did I say "everyone" who takes opioids is self-medicating mental health issues; I specifically said "some people." And I agree we shouldn't "lump people together," but probably for a different reason than you. You come at this from an extremely conservative, moral-judgment-based place (I know this from readinng dozens upon dozens of your posts.). For you, it's very important not to "lump everyone in together" because you view some people with opioid addiction as morally repulsive and other people with opioid addition as morally acceptable.

-

For me, I don't classify people in moral buckets. What interests me is how, as a society, we can help ALL these struggling people be healthy and happy, and save ANY of their lives when we can. ALL of their lives have value. And insofar as there may be different tactics that can help pepole, depending on what specific issues the person is dealing with, I'm all for not "lumping them" together.

laurarichardson said:

Some people are trying to deal with their physical pain when they have no other alternative. Everyone cannot afford to sit in a rocker in pain all day. Not everyone taking pain meds is doing it due to mental health issues or recreational use their is a difference and it is not fair to lump everybody in together.

More research needs to be done on alternatives to pain treatment. This type of research has nothing to do with treating recreational drug use. I am not saying people with those issue are not important it is just not the same root cause.

disch said:

But the issue isn't whether or not it's OK. CLEARLY it's not "OK" to develop an addiction, buy black-market drugs and die of an overdose, no matter the reason you first started taking opioids. By "OK," I don't meam morally; I mean in a "life is precious" kind of way.

-

The fact is, some people are attempting to self-medicate mental-health problems with opioids, and it's causing suffering to themselves and others. The question is, as a society, how do we address this? How do we help people find other ways of dealing with mental-health issues, rather than via dangerous attempts at self-medication? Can we show these people compassion and not stigma and ridicule, because we want to save their lives?

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said:

Because the Dr. didn't prescribe them to Prince, he prescribed them to Kirk, so actually those scripts were Kirks, either Kirk gave them to Prince OR Prince stole some from Kirk.

Do we know that. The drug he died from came from a different source. Maybe Kirk has medical issues of his own?

Yes we know the drug he died from was a different source.....

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

paulludvig said:

Do we know that. The drug he died from came from a different source. Maybe Kirk has medical issues of his own?

Yes we know the drug he died from was a different source.....

So how do we know that Prince took drugs prescribed to Kirk? Maybe Kirk was using them himself?

laurarichardson said:

paulludvig said:

Do we know that. The drug he died from came from a different source. Maybe Kirk has medical issues of his own?

The thing that is strange is that the doctor was interviewed in the warrant it states that he told the police he wrote those scripts for Kirk to protect Prince's privacy. I thougth this was a crazy thing for a doctor to admit to and now he is saying he did not say it

Maybe I need to go back and read it again. Why would it be in there if he did not say it and the police would verify since Kirk told them the exact same thing?

None of it tells us where the Watson's came from.

It also says - somewhere in there - that Dr S actually MET with Prince twice, before making out the relevant prescriptions and putting them in KJ's name to protect P's privacy.

Dibblekins said:

laurarichardson said:

The thing that is strange is that the doctor was interviewed in the warrant it states that he told the police he wrote those scripts for Kirk to protect Prince's privacy. I thougth this was a crazy thing for a doctor to admit to and now he is saying he did not say it

Maybe I need to go back and read it again. Why would it be in there if he did not say it and the police would verify since Kirk told them the exact same thing?

None of it tells us where the Watson's came from.

It also says - somewhere in there - that Dr S actually MET with Prince twice, before making out the relevant prescriptions and putting them in KJ's name to protect P's privacy.

Someone on this board said yesterday that Dr S put a press release saying he only wrote Rxs for Kirk for controlled substances and no controlled substances for Prince. I cannot find anything on the internet so maybe this was bogus.

I am still very surprised that Dr. S would admit to something like that or why he even did it in the first place. If Prince had been going to Walgreens for a year why worry about your privacy now. It does not make any sense. The cameras in the store, people who worked their saw him and if he signed for stuff even if it was non-controlled substances their is a record.

MissBoop24 said:

Dibblekins said:

Dr. S' rep made a statement yesterday:

http://www.fox9.com/news/...9591-story

he said: "Dr. Schulenberg never directly prescribed opioids to Prince, nor did he ever prescribe opioids to any other person with the intent that they would be given to Prince."

-

That's all I've seen from Dr. S about this

laurarichardson said:

Dibblekins said:

It also says - somewhere in there - that Dr S actually MET with Prince twice, before making out the relevant prescriptions and putting them in KJ's name to protect P's privacy.

Someone on this board said yesterday that Dr S put a press release saying he only wrote Rxs for Kirk for controlled substances and no controlled substances for Prince. I cannot find anything on the internet so maybe this was bogus.

I am still very surprised that Dr. S would admit to something like that or why he even did it in the first place. If Prince had been going to Walgreens for a year why worry about your privacy now. It does not make any sense. The cameras in the store, people who worked their saw him and if he signed for stuff even if it was non-controlled substances their is a record.

Kirk has a lawyer. oh oh. I knew it. We have to sadly admit Prince was an addict and broke the law.

laurarichardson said: