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Thread started 09/15/10 9:45am

Astasheiks

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If u are a Christain, Would u Witness to Prince?

"Witnessing to "the Witnesses"

By Ed Decker

It's a rare door that hasn't felt the knock of the Jehovah's Witnesses more than once and it's an even rarer Jehovah's Witness who has heard the gospel message at one of those doors from the resident Christian.

The reason is simply that it is a far from simple task to witness to a Witness. It's easier to just close the door and avoid the difficult task of sorting through a maze of confusing doctrines. Let's try to make it a bit simpler.

There are five important facts to remember about the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Organization.

1. They have accepted the Organization as the Prophet of God.
2. They have accepted the Organization as God's sole channel for His truth.
3. They believe that to reject the Organization is to reject God.
4. They believe that only the Organization can interpret the Bible; as individuals they are unable to do so.
5. They believe the Watchtower Magazine contains God's truth, directed by Him, through the Organization.

What does the Organization and Watchtower Magazine teach that is in conflict with Orthodox Christianity?

1. That Jesus is a created being/a creature.
2. That Jesus is actually Michael the Archangel
3. That Jesus was not resurrected bodily, but as a spirit being.
4. That Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 (secretly to the Organization)
5. That Jesus was only a man when on earth, not the Word Become flesh.
6. That the Holy Spirit is only an active force, not the person of God.
7. That Hell is simply the grave.
8. That Heaven's doors is open to only 144,000.
9. That the majority of Witnesses must remain on earth.
10. That salvation is found only through the Organization.
11. That it must be maintained by energetic works for the Organization until the end when one may merit eternal life on a paradise earth.
12. That Satan is the author of the doctrine of the Trinity.
13. That Jesus cannot be given worship, but only honor as Jehovah's first creation.

The Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe or teach some of the very basic tenets of Christian doctrine.

They deny what The Bible Teaches as Truth...

1. That God exists in a Trinity of three eternal and coequal persons:

Father: "To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be Saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ." (Romans 1:7)

Son: "Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28)

Holy Spirit: "Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God." (Acts 5:3,4)

"For there are three that testify" (1 John 5:7)

2. Jesus is no less than God in human flesh

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity

lives in bodily form" (Colossians 2:9)

3. God, the Holy Spirit, is the third member of the Holy Trinity

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (Matt. 28:19)

"While they were worshipping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." (Acts 13:2)

4. Jesus Christ rose bodily from the grave

"The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" But the temple he had spoken of was his body." (John 2:20,21)

"Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." (Luke 24:39)

5. Jesus is visibly coming again to set up His Kingdom on earth

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory." (Matt. 24:30)

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." (Acts 1:8)

"Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen." (Rev.1:7).

6. Salvation is in the person of Jesus Christ and comes through faith in Him.

"They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved -you and your household."(Acts 16:31).

7. It's the work of God for man, not a work of man for God

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior" (Titus 3:4-6).

8. Jesus was and should be worshipped

"A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" (Jn.20:26-28)

"When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh. And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route." (Matt. 2:10-12)

"Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God." (Matt. 14:33)

Witnessing to a Witness.

We need to remember that anyone who denies the full divinity of Jesus Christ and carries the heavy burden of a false, religious spirit is going through a lot of highs and lows. True believers, empowered by the companionship of God, the Holy Spirit have a constant presence of the Lord about them that seems to act like a magnet at times.

When a Watchtower member comes to your front door and you open it, what are they thinking about? What do they think when you talk about Christianity? First, it's impossible to offer them any hope of heaven

It doesn't matter what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe about Jesus. One day, every single one of them, including every leader who perpetuated this gross heresy, will have to meet the Master. On that day, "every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Whether it's at the banqueting table of joy or at the great white throne judgment of the damned, every knee will bow.

Our prayer as Christians is that God would open up the hearts and minds of these people who are ensnared in this foolishly created, man-made system and organization, as they believe the lie and try to earn their salvation through the watchtower, apart from Jesus Christ. We pray that they would come to know the triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who loves us and desires that we come into a personal relationship with Him. We pray for the lost members of the Jehovah's Witnesses, people ensnared by lying leaders.

The Word of God says : "Those who guide this people mislead them, and those who are guided are led astray." (Isa. 9:16) The King James Version says that they are destroyed. What an ignoble end for a misled people who only seek to serve God. What a tragedy.

We thank God for Jesus Christ, who took our sin and nailed it to the cross and covered it with His shed blood as the infinite payment, the eternal lamb of God once for all time. We thank the Lord for the Holy Spirit, who comes and lives in us and gives us new life. To God be the honor and glory and praise.. We worship Him alone and we thank you, Lord we love you, Lord. "Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Note from Ed: This study is excerpted from my book, Fast Facts on False Teachings, written with my friend and great Christian apologist, Dr. Ron Carlson. Our full teaching on Witnessing to the Witnesses is available there, with a special method for breaking through their wall of unbelief. This book contains the key to witnessing to 15 such false religious groups. Pick up a copy at our online bookstore today

Distributed by www.worldviewweekend.com

http://www.worldviewweeke...cleid=6504

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Reply #1 posted 09/15/10 10:34am

rudedog

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What kills me is that of the major religions like Christianity, Judaism and Islam...fine they may all be mythical...but they have lasted for thousands of years. Now comes the new religions on the block like Jehovah's Witness, Mormons and Scientology....wouldn't you disregard newer religions especially since they were JUST invented within 100 years?? It never ends with religion, something new, something better and something 'right'.

Why do ppl need religion to believe in God? Especially with religious doctrine written and invented by men?

"The voter is less important than the man who provides money to the candidate," - Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens
Rudedog no no no!
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Reply #2 posted 09/15/10 10:40am

skywalker

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5. They believe the Watchtower Magazine contains God's truth, directed by Him, through the Organization.

God's truth delivered to us by a magazine? Nikki was so ahead of her time.... smile

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #3 posted 09/15/10 10:43am

ludwig

rudedog said:

What kills me is that of the major religions like Christianity, Judaism and Islam...fine they may all be mythical...but they have lasted for thousands of years. Now comes the new religions on the block like Jehovah's Witness, Mormons and Scientology....wouldn't you disregard newer religions especially since they were JUST invented within 100 years?? It never ends with religion, something new, something better and something 'right'.

Why do ppl need religion to believe in God? Especially with religious doctrine written and invented by men?

You don't have to believe in god at all. Old or new religions, it's all bullcrap anyway.

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Reply #4 posted 09/15/10 1:21pm

PurpleLove7

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moderator

*retracted*

[Edited 9/21/10 10:31am]

Peace ... & Stay Funky ...

~* The only love there is, is the love "we" make *~

www.facebook.com/purplefunklover
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Reply #5 posted 09/15/10 1:33pm

JesusFreak

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Astasheiks said:

7. That Hell is simply the grave.

Then why would Prince write:

"I know there is a heaven, I know there is a hell
Listen 2 me people, I got a story 2 tell
I know there was confusion, lightnin' all around me
That's when I called His name
Don't U know He found me?"

Nonetheless, I would deffinantly make it a point to discuss religious views to see if he does the Bible buffet style or not and tell him truth.

"Not to sound cosmic, but I've made plans for the next 3,000 years," he says. "Before, it was only three days at a time."
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Reply #6 posted 09/15/10 2:15pm

datdude

i would and i have. not sure if he ever got it but i sent a lengthy note via the NPGMC years ago

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Reply #7 posted 09/15/10 4:28pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

Our family went through a Witness phase.

I always found these items especially confusing.

8. That Heaven's doors is open to only 144,000.
9. That the majority of Witnesses must remain on earth.
10. That salvation is found only through the Organization.
11. That it must be maintained by energetic works for the Organization until the end when one may merit eternal life on a paradise earth.

So basically what the JW teaches is that you must be a JW to get saved. Your chances for getting into heaven are slim but you must be a JW to get there in the first place. And if you don't get into Heaven you will live eternally on earths' paradise but only if you've been a steadfast workerbee for the JW faith.

disbelief Prince would so have been better off being a 7th Day Adventist. Oh well.

I wonder if the JWs have guaranteed Prince entry into Heaven....despite his whoring ways.

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Reply #8 posted 09/15/10 5:20pm

rbrpm

Astasheiks i hear what u r saying and 2 add 2 that i wish he would have stayed what he was but again oh well also i hope and pray his eyes get opened b4 that faithful day! As 4 me i am spiritually free and suscribe 2 no religion and that's how i c prince free not confined like he is but we can only hope and pray his eyes get opened in time! Yes prince He found u but did u really find HIM?smile

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Reply #9 posted 09/15/10 5:23pm

Spinlight

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eek

can't read all dat shit

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Reply #10 posted 09/15/10 5:52pm

robinhood

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Astasheiks said:

The Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe or teach some of the very basic tenets of Christian doctrine.

They deny what The Bible Teaches as Truth...

lol

this too shall pass
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Reply #11 posted 09/15/10 6:11pm

Chiquetet

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Astasheiks said:

Our full teaching on Witnessing to the Witnesses is available there, with a special method for breaking through their wall of unbelief.

Why is it so important to you to change someone else's belief (particularly when you're just switching one religious doctrine for another)?

In any case, this strikes me as religious propaganda thinly veiled as a Prince topic that really belongs in another forum.

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Reply #12 posted 09/15/10 6:14pm

Chiquetet

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skywalker said:


5. They believe the Watchtower Magazine contains God's truth, directed by Him, through the Organization.

God's truth delivered to us by a magazine? Nikki was so ahead of her time.... smile

Oh, so very wrong...

...and yet made reading the thread entirely worthwhile falloff

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Reply #13 posted 09/15/10 7:45pm

Billmenever

Witness the fact that's Prince you're refering to. whip

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Reply #14 posted 09/15/10 8:01pm

jaybendy

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rudedog said:

What kills me is that of the major religions like Christianity, Judaism and Islam...fine they may all be mythical...but they have lasted for thousands of years. Now comes the new religions on the block like Jehovah's Witness, Mormons and Scientology....wouldn't you disregard newer religions especially since they were JUST invented within 100 years?? It never ends with religion, something new, something better and something 'right'.

Why do ppl need religion to believe in God? Especially with religious doctrine written and invented by men?

THIS.

I don't think I'll ever understand his choice to become a JW after being such a free spirit up until that point. Anyone with common sense would seriously consider your above statement before emersing themselves into one of these "new" religions. I get that he was looking for some kind of spiritual guidance, but REALLY Prince? Really? I thought he was smarter that this. sad

Prince esta muerto...
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Reply #15 posted 09/15/10 8:53pm

DaphneLovesPR1
NCE

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Hmmm, I would definately discuss beliefs and scripture with Prince. I find him to be very wise and I respect him, so of course I'd like to see what he has to say and what he believes as truth. And I would share with him what I believe. I'm not an all knowing Christian person, I'm still learning after 13yrs of being saved and enjoy discussing with other believers different aspects of the Christian faith and The Bible. I wouldn't necessarily "witness" to Prince as I don't believe women should be ministering to men, but I do think a friendly discussion would be alot of fun!

Prince is GORGEOUS. I'm inspired. GOD is GREAT. Is there anything else to say? lol
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Reply #16 posted 09/15/10 11:41pm

robinhood

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DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

I wouldn't necessarily "witness" to Prince as I don't believe women should be ministering to men

falloff

this too shall pass
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Reply #17 posted 09/16/10 11:29am

DesireeNevermi
nd

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Hmmm, I would definately discuss beliefs and scripture with Prince. I find him to be very wise and I respect him, so of course I'd like to see what he has to say and what he believes as truth. And I would share with him what I believe. I'm not an all knowing Christian person, I'm still learning after 13yrs of being saved and enjoy discussing with other believers different aspects of the Christian faith and The Bible. I wouldn't necessarily "witness" to Prince as I don't believe women should be ministering to men, but I do think a friendly discussion would be alot of fun!

Okay:

#1 Why don't you think women should minister to men? Do you think women are inferior to men or cannot comprehend biblical teachings as easily as men can?

#2 What is witnessing other than a friendly discussion? If witnessing is badgering and psychological manipulation then yeah....let's leave that to the men because they are so good at it.

rolleyes

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Reply #18 posted 09/16/10 6:36pm

noize

I guess the problem for me is why does organized religion even exists? And NO! Christianity is not a religion and if anyone read the Bible you would find that out for yourselves. Because what was imposed (forced) on people as Christianity had NOTHING to do with the BIBLE. Ive read the bible and there is nothing.......NOTHING there that tells you to subscribe to RELIGION(legalism). Apostle Paul said in the book of Corinthians chapter 1 verse 10 "that there be no divisions among you" Jesus said in Mathew 16:18, "and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" He never gave the CHURCH a title or name. Thats the problem today people are so religion focused and not God Focused. And why would I become a part of a religion that was unsuccessful (3 times I might add) in predicting the comming of Christ? ......................I'm just sayin shrug

[Edited 9/16/10 18:37pm]

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Reply #19 posted 09/16/10 7:31pm

LadyLovely123

Yes i actually would witness to him.... Ima great debater xD... And Also its weird because our religions are quite close but the jehova witnesses bibles nd beliefs are like ours but mixed up.. I would enjoy witnessing to him

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Reply #20 posted 09/16/10 9:23pm

one2vibe

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IF I were a Christian I would PUNCH PRINCE in the balls and tell him to snap out of it!!!!!!!!!

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Reply #21 posted 09/16/10 11:34pm

Spinlight

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DesireeNevermind said:

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Hmmm, I would definately discuss beliefs and scripture with Prince. I find him to be very wise and I respect him, so of course I'd like to see what he has to say and what he believes as truth. And I would share with him what I believe. I'm not an all knowing Christian person, I'm still learning after 13yrs of being saved and enjoy discussing with other believers different aspects of the Christian faith and The Bible. I wouldn't necessarily "witness" to Prince as I don't believe women should be ministering to men, but I do think a friendly discussion would be alot of fun!

Okay:

#1 Why don't you think women should minister to men? Do you think women are inferior to men or cannot comprehend biblical teachings as easily as men can?

#2 What is witnessing other than a friendly discussion? If witnessing is badgering and psychological manipulation then yeah....let's leave that to the men because they are so good at it.

rolleyes

Two words.

Theocratic Order.

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Reply #22 posted 09/17/10 1:30am

robinhood

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Spinlight said:

DesireeNevermind said:

Okay:

#1 Why don't you think women should minister to men? Do you think women are inferior to men or cannot comprehend biblical teachings as easily as men can?

#2 What is witnessing other than a friendly discussion? If witnessing is badgering and psychological manipulation then yeah....let's leave that to the men because they are so good at it.

rolleyes

Two words.

Theocratic Order.

nah you know the JW's hijacked that term and gave it a bad name.

i believe in theocracy when it's pure and unadulterated by man's ignorant interpretations. but i guess thats a convo for a different forum.

anyway, i wouldnt bother "witnessing" to prince. he acts like he knows everything anyway so what would be the point?

anything i'd say would probably go in one ear and out the other and then he'd tell me the net is dead.

yeah real productive conversation that would be lol

this too shall pass
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Reply #23 posted 09/17/10 1:44am

andykeen

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Keenmeister
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Reply #24 posted 09/17/10 2:44am

robinhood

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andykeen said:

'motivational posters': good enough for the idiot who created this one. smile

einstein was not an atheist.

"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish" - Einstein.

looks like he's right about that one. heart

this too shall pass
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Reply #25 posted 09/17/10 5:11am

ludwig

robinhood said:

andykeen said:

'motivational posters': good enough for the idiot who created this one. smile

einstein was not an atheist.

"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish" - Einstein.

looks like he's right about that one. heart

You are totally wrong. Einstein was an atheist. You should read his biography before you post false information.

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Reply #26 posted 09/17/10 5:44am

Chiquetet

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ludwig said:

You are totally wrong. Einstein was an atheist. You should read his biography before you post false information.

Are you a Jesuit by any chance?

http://atheism.about.com/...heist-.htm

Einstein spoke often of God. He just didn't subscribe to a particular doctrine of faith which, in the eyes of religious types, made him an atheist.

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Reply #27 posted 09/17/10 5:54am

ludwig

Chiquetet said:

ludwig said:

You are totally wrong. Einstein was an atheist. You should read his biography before you post false information.

Are you a Jesuit by any chance?

http://atheism.about.com/...heist-.htm

Einstein spoke often of God. He just didn't subscribe to a particular doctrine of faith which, in the eyes of religious types, made him an atheist.

I'm am well educated guy who knows Einsteins biography by heart, and I don't need some fishy internet sources to prove that. Einstein did not believe in god.

And I'm an agnostic, because religion is only for the desperate or dumb people.

and by the way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein#Religious_views

[Edited 9/17/10 5:59am]

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Reply #28 posted 09/17/10 6:01am

robinhood

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  1. I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details

  1. Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.

  1. My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.

  1. The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.

  1. Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.

  1. The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.

  1. There is no logical way to the discovery of elemental laws. There is only the way of intuition, which is helped by a feeling for the order lying behind the appearance.

  1. The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.

  1. The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.

  1. We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality.

  1. Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.

  1. When the solution is simple, God is answering.

  1. God does not play dice with the universe.

  1. God is subtle but he is not malicious.

  1. A human being is a part of the whole, called by us Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest-a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

  1. Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

  1. The man who regards his own life and that of his fellow creatures as meaningless is not merely unfortunate but almost disqualified for life.

  1. Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.

  1. Only a life lived for others is a life worth while.

  1. The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.

  1. The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.

  1. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.

  1. The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenetrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sentiment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself among profoundly religious men.

  1. The real problem is in the hearts and minds of men. It is easier to denature plutonium than to denature the evil spirit of man.

  1. True religion is real living; living with all one’s soul, with all one’s goodness and righteousness.

  1. Intelligence makes clear to us the interrelationship of means and ends. But mere thinking cannot give us a sense of the ultimate and fundamental ends. To make clear these fundamental ends and valuations and to set them fast in the emotional life of the individual, seems to me precisely the most important function which religion has to form in the social life of man.

Albert Einstein

heart

this too shall pass
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Reply #29 posted 09/17/10 6:19am

Chiquetet

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ludwig said:

I'm am well educated guy who knows Einsteins biography by heart, and I don't need some fishy internet sources to prove that.

Which is lucky, because I doubt you'd find any.

Einstein did not believe in god.

Aside from the obvious point that only Einstein truly knows what Einstein believed, every time I've seen him quoted on the topic he's made a point of saying that he didn't believe in a personal god.

And I'm an agnostic, because religion is only for the desperate or dumb people.

...seems like an odd and highly judgemental reason for being agnostic, but ok.

and by the way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein#Religious_views

[Edited 9/17/10 5:59am]

Again, quotes about Einstein not believing in a personal god. What he does say though is:

"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."

I suspect this is becoming an issue of semantics, so it's not really worth continuining, but surely a well educated, biography-memorising agnostic like yourself would appreciate that not following a religious view of God does not necessarily make you an atheist?

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