i can dig the "no alien theory request" however when speaking of life on earth as opposed to the existance of the universe .. you have to acknowledge that more likely than not .. those who mastered the understanding of dna and its ability to transform atoms into life .. e.g. any seed, sperm turns into a full living organism .. created this world for us. this may have and very likely happened a rediculously long time ago as it is likely that our existence (along with animals and plants) was meant to come to be over a very very long period of time and perhaps was the only way to carry on as a species that was doomed to extinction or perhaps the dna was sent to this planet and visitors still return here to check on things ... none the less .. our design and the design of most every living thing is impeccable. it is likely that each species is a clone with a variable intact .. including our own .. and it is likely that our bodies are designed to live in this atmosphere. it is also very likely that information or intellectually evolution was programmed into our dna to prepare us to advance at a certain time .. there are likely other life forms we cannot comprehend living in atmospheres we would die in .. kind like we dont live under water but fish do just fine .. so if the discussion is "intelligent design" i say 100 percent yes .. but not by a spiritual god but more from a species that fully figured out much of what we are publically coming to know now. thats not to say there is no spiritual energy that connects all to everything or to say that we are not spiritual beings in a human vessel .. its simply to say we are likely here on earth due to ancient astronaut intelligent design as opposed to a magic "god" going abracadabra. as for the origins of all and everything .. well if u say its god then who made god? perhaps we will figure it all out someday but at this point we need to explore the universe and other planes of existance far more than we already have before we would ever have even the smallest clue to the bigger questions .. are u willing to do the work?

and so until then i think we know enuf to unravel the mysteries of the many religions and take some of the fear of god out of the practical reasons we exist here on earth

TrevorAyer said:

i can dig the "no alien theory request" however when speaking of life on earth as opposed to the existance of the universe .. you have to acknowledge that more likely than not .. those who mastered the understanding of dna and its ability to transform atoms into life .. e.g. any seed, sperm turns into a full living organism .. created this world for us. this may have and very likely happened a rediculously long time ago as it is likely that our existence (along with animals and plants) was meant to come to be over a very very long period of time and perhaps was the only way to carry on as a species that was doomed to extinction or perhaps the dna was sent to this planet and visitors still return here to check on things ... none the less .. our design and the design of most every living thing is impeccable. it is likely that each species is a clone with a variable intact .. including our own .. and it is likely that our bodies are designed to live in this atmosphere. it is also very likely that information or intellectually evolution was programmed into our dna to prepare us to advance at a certain time .. there are likely other life forms we cannot comprehend living in atmospheres we would die in .. kind like we dont live under water but fish do just fine .. so if the discussion is "intelligent design" i say 100 percent yes .. but not by a spiritual god but more from a species that fully figured out much of what we are publically coming to know now. thats not to say there is no spiritual energy that connects all to everything or to say that we are not spiritual beings in a human vessel .. its simply to say we are likely here on earth due to ancient astronaut intelligent design as opposed to a magic "god" going abracadabra. as for the origins of all and everything .. well if u say its god then who made god? perhaps we will figure it all out someday but at this point we need to explore the universe and other planes of existance far more than we already have before we would ever have even the smallest clue to the bigger questions .. are u willing to do the work?

and so until then i think we know enuf to unravel the mysteries of the many religions and take some of the fear of god out of the practical reasons we exist here on earth

Very well said. Over the timescale of billions of centuries, there is no way little beings like us can really KNOW. And either way...nobody can deny that whether by chance or design, natural processes have produced the planets, water, land, and chemistry that makes life possible. Who or what began these natural processes and who created those that began those processes? We will never know.

I think religious people expect an all encompassing, dogmatically "true" answer from science...or nothing at all. Because that's how it works in religion. Without the evidence. Why do creationists always turn it into a question of believe or be damned or believe or be unhappy? Maybe we really ARE the products of a universe trying to make sense of itself. I do not think my happiness is related to some questionable higher power or whether it exists or not. This realization, actually, is quite happifying in itself.

I love the natural world and I consider its beauty a blessing…wherever it came from!

i agree that 'intelligent design' doesnt necessarily indicate the intervention of 'god himself', but possibly the interbreeding of alien races with apes,

but perhaps the term GOD is used due to our opportunity to aquire cosmic intelligence due to the extra string of DNA.

robinhood said:

i agree that 'intelligent design' doesnt necessarily indicate the intervention of 'god himself', but possibly the interbreeding of alien races with apes,

but perhaps the term GOD is used due to our opportunity to aquire cosmic intelligence due to the extra string of DNA.

i love the ancient astro art

Q: How do we know "Jesus saves?"

A: Because the Bible says so.

Q: How do we know what the Bible says is true?

A: ...because... its the Bible.

TrevorAyer said:

...to transform atoms into life...

What's the difference, really? Herein lies the presumption that "life" or "what exists" is made out of "stuff" i.e. atoms, or as the Bible states "clay." This is a highly dubious outlook when you actually stop and think about it. I say we move on. Both science and the Bible need to be seriously reconsidered.

TrevorAyer said:

robinhood said:

i agree that 'intelligent design' doesnt necessarily indicate the intervention of 'god himself', but possibly the interbreeding of alien races with apes,

but perhaps the term GOD is used due to our opportunity to aquire cosmic intelligence due to the extra string of DNA.

i love the ancient astro art

me too.

"Everything you have been taught in history class was a lie. Our true history has been suppressed and withheld from the majority of the people. We have been taught that humans evolved out of an ape like species 40,000 years ago and then fumbled around with primitive tools to build the most advanced structures and society in ancient Egypt 4500 years ago.

If what they taught in history class were true then we should have the most advanced structures today but instead humanity built their most advanced structures right when they got out of the caves and then regressed. Something doesn’t add up. The Great Pyramid remains the largest, most precisely built structure to this day. There is evidence that batteries, lightbulbs and electricity were used in ancient Egypt. This doesn't sound like something a recently cave dwelling ape like race could come up with."

http://www.stoptherobbery...dence.html

Spinlight said:

lmao!!

What is so amazingly wonderful..is that Prince has surpassed being just a musical artist, he makes all of us think, debate and search within...to effin funky. keep it up y'all. keep it up. this post is on fire...whether u dig his religion, are confused by it, fear it or just plain like to type...keep it up!!!

robinhood said: The Great Pyramid remains the largest, most precisely built structure to this day. There is evidence that batteries, lightbulbs and electricity were used in ancient Egypt. This doesn't sound like something a recently cave dwelling ape like race could come up with."

Good old Egyptians. Made the pyramids but never thought of the wheel. It'd been staring them in the face for years in the form of the dung-beetle yet they never clicked. Wood for trees, but in the desert that's an alien term I guess.

iloveannie said:

Good old Egyptians. Made the pyramids but never thought of the wheel. It'd been staring them in the face for years in the form of the dung-beetle yet they never clicked.

Does that mean the dung-beetles were pulling their chariots?

IshmaelB said:

TrevorAyer said:

...to transform atoms into life...

What's the difference, really? Herein lies the presumption that "life" or "what exists" is made out of "stuff" i.e. atoms, or as the Bible states "clay." This is a highly dubious outlook when you actually stop and think about it. I say we move on. Both science and the Bible need to be seriously reconsidered.

i'd like to think we are all made up of positive vibrations

in the meantime .. my 2 favorite movie series

http://www.youtube.com/wa...73ZtRCfYo0

http://www.youtube.com/wa...zrxevGgD_8

lotusboy said:

What is so amazingly wonderful..is that Prince has surpassed being just a musical artist, he makes all of us think, debate and search within...to effin funky. keep it up y'all. keep it up. this post is on fire...whether u dig his religion, are confused by it, fear it or just plain like to type...keep it up!!!

showoff

Spinlight said:

hollywooddove said:

Even if that is true, the construction of a complex protein that delivers any beneficial qualification towards anything resembling life is a highly competitive realization when considering the mutations of mirror compounds, not to mention highly concentrated acids or bases, simple salts, and many others I can't remember, in what would have had to be a chaotic model at the least. Most of those forces simply cancel out others at a very efficient rate. What would protect these proteins? And further more, what would satisfy the conditions that would create a codependency of one protein type to another that would equate in direction that is purely random yet beneficial in the construction not of a single cell, but simply of the many subcelular organelles that constitute specific purposes? It's still all a vast mystery. I think it is way over simplified in the class room in basic biology courses. It's like ... here is the theory, here is some experiments, so it has to be. There is so much more to it. These would be miraculous proteins simply to get this point. Still, it has never been observed. We have never seen life rise from chemicals, protiens or not, on its own. Of course, then we have to push the question back, where did this fortuidous collection of chemicals come from? Where did any of it come from. Are we to believe that everything whimmed itself into existence or was there an intelligence behind it all? (Please no alien theories, that only pushes the question back to what made the aliens) If it were clear cut, there would be no debate.

[Edited 10/2/10 9:40am]

[Edited 10/2/10 9:42am]

I would love to answer your questions, but if I knew the answer to them I would be a billionaire rather than sitting here on Prince.org arguing the merits of intelligent design.

Yeah.... me too.

... humans evolved out of an ape like species 40,000 years ago

Homo Sapien-Sapiens ARE "ape like species" and came onto the scene at least 150,000 years ago.

There is evidence that batteries, lightbulbs and electricity were used in ancient Egypt.

No there isn't.

IshmaelB said:

There is evidence that batteries, lightbulbs and electricity were used in ancient Egypt.

No there isn't.

there's plenty of evidence that the human race has de-evolved. i didnt know evolution could work backwards.

i guess when people's brains get shut down from all the toxic crap that goes into it, its no wonder we're so much dumber, and so much more arrogant, with so much less class, than some of our ancestors.

robinhood said:

IshmaelB said:

No there isn't.

there's plenty of evidence that the human race has de-evolved. i didnt know evolution could work backwards.

i guess when people's brains get shut down from all the toxic crap that goes into it, its no wonder we're so much dumber, and so much more arrogant, with so much less class, than some of our ancestors.

Evolution is all a myth anyway! The Bible said long before the evolutionists existed that man would be wiser and weaker! The only thing the teaching of evolution is good for is to make one learn to use their imagination! The idea of it is absolutely ridiculous if you really think about it!

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Evolution is all a myth anyway! The Bible said long before the evolutionists existed that man would be wiser and weaker! The only thing the teaching of evolution is good for is to make one learn to use their imagination! The idea of it is absolutely ridiculous if you really think about it!

I have always stayed well away from these debates as I generally see them as pointless (being that no one is ever likely to change anyone's view), but there is something I've genuinely always wondered about this perspective, so...I'm going in.

Leaving humans out of it for a moment, do you believe that evolution within the animal kingdom exists? If not (ie. literally the entire notion of evolution is absolutely ridiculous), what do you call it when an animal develops a new physical attribute or ability over time as a means of adapting to its environment?

Chiquetet said:

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Evolution is all a myth anyway! The Bible said long before the evolutionists existed that man would be wiser and weaker! The only thing the teaching of evolution is good for is to make one learn to use their imagination! The idea of it is absolutely ridiculous if you really think about it!

I have always stayed well away from these debates as I generally see them as pointless (being that no one is ever likely to change anyone's view), but there is something I've genuinely always wondered about this perspective, so...I'm going in.

Leaving humans out of it for a moment, do you believe that evolution within the animal kingdom exists? If not (ie. literally the entire notion of evolution is absolutely ridiculous), what do you call it when an animal develops a new physical attribute or ability over time as a means of adapting to its environment?

Well, I don't believe these animals have changed. (I believe the animals have always been 2 different species, kind of like different breeds of dogs) There are no present day animals that can used to accurately and irrefuteably document these changes... The evolutionists say that the changes come from a genetic mutation that the animals go through to adjust to their surroundings. Yet a mutation has never been proven to be anything positive or beneficial. A mutation is considered a defect in a gene that happens randomly, with no specific direction or stimulus in mind. So the animals wouldn't then survive and become better species with a "defect."

If you look at it from purely a scientific perspective... genes don't just pop up into existance. The "fossil evidence" just doesn't exist to prove that an animal has changed to become a completely differernt animal. The "fossils" of many animals are exactly the same as animals of the same species that are alive today. And there are animals today that have mutated/change thousands of times and yet have not changed into completely different animals with any "greater intelligence" or anything significant.

I think the theory of evolution started first innocently, to explain scientist's bafflement over new species that looked so similar to other species. (Just like we find new species of animals everyday, why does it mean they HAVE to come from another species?). The theory then evolved itself when those that rejected GOD needed a way to debunk creationism. Science itself proves evolution to be on more than a myth, a hoax, whatever you want to call it. Evolution isn't able to be tried and proven, so it will remain no more than a creative theory.

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Chiquetet said:

I have always stayed well away from these debates as I generally see them as pointless (being that no one is ever likely to change anyone's view), but there is something I've genuinely always wondered about this perspective, so...I'm going in.

Leaving humans out of it for a moment, do you believe that evolution within the animal kingdom exists? If not (ie. literally the entire notion of evolution is absolutely ridiculous), what do you call it when an animal develops a new physical attribute or ability over time as a means of adapting to its environment?

Well, I don't believe these animals have changed. (I believe the animals have always been 2 different species, kind of like different breeds of dogs) There are no present day animals that can used to accurately and irrefuteably document these changes... The evolutionists say that the changes come from a genetic mutation that the animals go through to adjust to their surroundings. Yet a mutation has never been proven to be anything positive or beneficial. A mutation is considered a defect in a gene that happens randomly, with no specific direction or stimulus in mind. So the animals wouldn't then survive and become better species with a "defect."

If you look at it from purely a scientific perspective... genes don't just pop up into existance. The "fossil evidence" just doesn't exist to prove that an animal has changed to become a completely differernt animal. The "fossils" of many animals are exactly the same as animals of the same species that are alive today. And there are animals today that have mutated/change thousands of times and yet have not changed into completely different animals with any "greater intelligence" or anything significant.

I think the theory of evolution started first innocently, to explain scientist's bafflement over new species that looked so similar to other species. (Just like we find new species of animals everyday, why does it mean they HAVE to come from another species?). The theory then evolved itself when those that rejected GOD needed a way to debunk creationism. Science itself proves evolution to be on more than a myth, a hoax, whatever you want to call it. Evolution isn't able to be tried and proven, so it will remain no more than a creative theory.

Evolution of cells has been proven already in laboratories.

Next?

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

The theory then evolved itself when those that rejected GOD needed a way to debunk creationism.

But how?

Personally, I don't think there's intelligent life on other planets. Why should other planets be any different from this one?

It always makes me laugh when people say we were created by aliens not God.

Ok SO WHAT CREATED THE ALIENS!?

Other aliens?

Ok so what created them...

IshmaelB said:

Q: How do we know "Jesus saves?"

A: Because the Bible says so.

Q: How do we know what the Bible says is true?

A: ...because... its the Bible.

LOL

As a creationist, when christians make stupid statements like this it's just embarasing and damages our cause.

swdee said:

IshmaelB said:

Q: How do we know "Jesus saves?"

A: Because the Bible says so.

Q: How do we know what the Bible says is true?

A: ...because... its the Bible.

LOL

As a creationist, when christians make stupid statements like this it's just embarasing and damages our cause.

It was meant? I thought it was an ironic piss-take. I laughed at it seeing it for the joke it is.

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

iloveannie said:

swdee said:

LOL

As a creationist, when christians make stupid statements like this it's just embarasing and damages our cause.

It was meant? I thought it was an ironic piss-take. I laughed at it seeing it for the joke it is.

Yes I know it was ironic I was laughing with iloveannie, but they do actually say these kind of things.

swdee said:

It always makes me laugh when people say we were created by aliens not God.

Ok SO WHAT CREATED THE ALIENS!?

Other aliens?

Ok so what created them...

From what I know of this topic, most people who believe in alien theories believe the aliens take the place of god. Thus, the aliens are the mythological god creature, figuratively speaking, and the rest was man-made through the bible (and regardless of any mystical claims, the bible was written by men).

Vendetta1 said:

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Evolution is all a myth anyway! The Bible said long before the evolutionists existed that man would be wiser and weaker! The only thing the teaching of evolution is good for is to make one learn to use their imagination! The idea of it is absolutely ridiculous if you really think about it!

the existence of God can't be proven. Maybe we should call creationism a myth too.

wut? have u looked around? the existance of god is well proven .. the definition gets arguable when criticizing the subsections of the all encompassing everything header ..