independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Tue 12th Dec 2017 11:40am
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Was Michael Jackson's fame a little overrated, lol?
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 12 of 12 « First<3456789101112
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #330 posted 12/02/17 4:29pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

avatar

No. There was no internet, no social media. NO One Direction. No boy bands. NO Donny and the Osmonds, no David Cassidy, no Bay City Rollers. But Michael Jackson was as much a phenomenon visually as he was musically...

Back in the 80s, you still had to have a modicum of talent to make it big. MJ had plenty of that. And Thriller was his best album, so if that's the album that made him stratospherically huge, all the more credit to him. smile

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #331 posted 12/02/17 4:45pm

purple05

PeteSilas said:

you don't hear the differene in his singing between off the wall and thriller? he raised his voice through practice and he also lost 40 pounds in that era, they said that he was 105 pounds in that era. those are things he felt he had to do as a black man to be non-threatening and i also think it was his attempt to stay a child. he was different, his natural voice was fuller and lower as we've seen on some songs/interviews. and i was speaking in generalitites as far as body build, a body has an effect on the instrument, like any other instrument that's not electronic, the shape has an effect. Prince was a baritone i've also read things that say guys of his height are rarely great classical singers because they are short.



purple05 said:


PeteSilas said:


a persons body obviously has something to do with the sound of their voice, it's why tall guys are often deep bass singers, it's why heavy guys are often great tenors. His voice was a natural gift, I happen to think the affectations he put on it hurt it.



I understand where you're coming from but that's not true. Prince as small as he was is a baritone. Smiley wasn't a huge guy and his voice is lighter than MJs. Whitney had a huge, powerful voice and she was very slim in size(height she was kinda tall)



Here is a reverb e for his highest and lowest notes. His lowest notes were from the 90s

http://therangeplace.boar...son?page=1
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #332 posted 12/02/17 5:14pm

PeteSilas

fortuneandserendipity said:

No. There was no internet, no social media. NO One Direction. No boy bands. NO Donny and the Osmonds, no David Cassidy, no Bay City Rollers. But Michael Jackson was as much a phenomenon visually as he was musically...

Back in the 80s, you still had to have a modicum of talent to make it big. MJ had plenty of that. And Thriller was his best album, so if that's the album that made him stratospherically huge, all the more credit to him. smile

yup, dude was great, no doubt about it, quite a package as an artist. Great songwriter, great dancer, great singer, great producer, great showman, video visionary. He was no slouch. I only wish he was a stronger person who could have said fuck you to all the Quincy's and been a little more like Prince but that wasn't his training or his upbringing.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #333 posted 12/03/17 2:35am

spacedolphin

avatar

hmmm Probably not, many artists in the good old days had an aura and mythos to them, he happened to be very commercially successful so extrapolate from there. Maybe in the 2000s when he was still trying to call himself the king of pop after getting his ass handed to him by Timberlake, he was more infamous for his embarassing antics by then.

music
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #334 posted 12/03/17 7:31am

bonatoc

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

No. There was no internet, no social media. NO One Direction. No boy bands. NO Donny and the Osmonds, no David Cassidy, no Bay City Rollers. But Michael Jackson was as much a phenomenon visually as he was musically...

Back in the 80s, you still had to have a modicum of talent to make it big. MJ had plenty of that. And Thriller was his best album, so if that's the album that made him stratospherically huge, all the more credit to him. smile


"Off The Wall" is better. It's not trying too hard.
All Michael's voice colors are already there (OK, There's no "Human Nature").
I dunno, I wish Michael had worldwide success with the big afro and his big ol'nose.
That's one thing that bothers me with "Thriller" and its über-fame.
Or maybe "Bad". It's hard to say because he was kind of gracious in his alien skin.
But then again, it's hard to say if the attempt was proto-human or going whitey.

There's no politics, the title song is a kid scared of sex (all things that lurk in the dark: mainly his big brothers humping groupies in the same hotel room, back in the sixties), there are beautiful ballads, a hard rocker, Quincy himself doesn't back up from the fact that it was conceived as a blockbuster.
It's very good craftsmanship, but a bit of artistry is lost in the process.
"Off The Wall" comes from the guts of the guy singing, and pour from everyone's playing.

Spoons, man. You can't beat the spoons.

[Edited 12/3/17 7:32am]

Goodness will guide us if love is inside us
The colors are brighter, the bond is much tighter
You know no child's a failure
Until the blue sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't ever lose, don't ever lose, don't ever lose your dreams
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #335 posted 12/03/17 8:02am

MotownSubdivis
ion

avatar

spacedolphin said:

hmmm Probably not, many artists in the good old days had an aura and mythos to them, he happened to be very commercially successful so extrapolate from there. Maybe in the 2000s when he was still trying to call himself the king of pop after getting his ass handed to him by Timberlake, he was more infamous for his embarassing antics by then.

Eh... Timberlake even at his hottest point was never the King of Pop. By the time of his solo debut, he was the hottest "newcomer" on the block with shades of MJ but he wasn't MJ; MJ owned the title. Besides, JT's biggest hit (or hits) back then was an MJ leftover lol
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #336 posted 12/03/17 9:06am

SoulAlive

bonatoc said:

Back in the 80s, you still had to have a modicum of talent to make it big. MJ had plenty of that. And Thriller was his best album, so if that's the album that made him stratospherically huge, all the more credit to him. smile


"Off The Wall" is better. It's not trying too hard.

I agree,Off The Wall is his best album.I love everything on it.

One crazy thing about me: many times,I prefer the album that comes just before an artist's biggest seller nuts another example,I prefer 1999 to Purple Rain.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #337 posted 12/03/17 1:15pm

PeteSilas

off the wall is my fave too, everything was more natural, it was before synthesizers really took over and no matter how good synths get, they will never be as good as the instruments they imitate. amazing thing is, MJ was only, what, 19 or 20? those songs were phenomenal, q's (hate to admit it) production was perfect.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #338 posted 12/04/17 2:14am

Karo548363



As Jamie said: 'Mayhem'.
Notice not only what he says, but how he does it. When he's reminiscing the excitement is still there as if he entered the stadium right now. The memories are still so fresh and vivid and maybe just because he suplements with some ginseng pills, but it is undisputable when Michael subject comes to the table folks are losing it, especially those who experienced his magic in person.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #339 posted 12/04/17 3:01am

PeteSilas

Karo548363 said:

As Jamie said: 'Mayhem'. Notice not only what he says, but how he does it. When he's reminiscing the excitement is still there as if he entered the stadium right now. The memories are still so fresh and vivid and maybe just because he suplements with some ginseng pills, but it is undisputable when Michael subject comes to the table folks are losing it, especially those who experienced his magic in person.

i remember that, pretty good description of how Michael made people react. God, I've been missing Prince so much now you guys are dragging me back into missing michael, it took a long time to get over Michaels death, the only good thing, if it could be called that was by the time Prince died, i'd lost a couple other boyhood heroes too and so it wasn't unfamiliar territory.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #340 posted 12/04/17 3:55am

daingermouz202
0

bonatoc said:



fortuneandserendipity said:


No. There was no internet, no social media. NO One Direction. No boy bands. NO Donny and the Osmonds, no David Cassidy, no Bay City Rollers. But Michael Jackson was as much a phenomenon visually as he was musically...



Back in the 80s, you still had to have a modicum of talent to make it big. MJ had plenty of that. And Thriller was his best album, so if that's the album that made him stratospherically huge, all the more credit to him. smile




"Off The Wall" is better. It's not trying too hard.
All Michael's voice colors are already there (OK, There's no "Human Nature").
I dunno, I wish Michael had worldwide success with the big afro and his big ol'nose.
That's one thing that bothers me with "Thriller" and its über-fame.
Or maybe "Bad". It's hard to say because he was kind of gracious in his alien skin.
But then again, it's hard to say if the attempt was proto-human or going whitey.

There's no politics, the title song is a kid scared of sex (all things that lurk in the dark: mainly his big brothers humping groupies in the same hotel room, back in the sixties), there are beautiful ballads, a hard rocker, Quincy himself doesn't back up from the fact that it was conceived as a blockbuster.
It's very good craftsmanship, but a bit of artistry is lost in the process.
"Off The Wall" comes from the guts of the guy singing, and pour from everyone's playing.

Spoons, man. You can't beat the spoons.

[Edited 12/3/17 7:32am]



I always thought "Off the Wall" was the better album compared to Thriller vocally.It imo was more soulful. Thriller would come in 2nd for me.

Bad ,Dangerous, HIStory, except for maybe about 3 tracks per album is pretty much what Id call formula album. Each of those albums always used the same gospel chiors of Andre and Saundra Crouch. Each album had a rock guitarist. I get it with Eddie Vanhalen on Beat It but after that on his albums used Steve Stevens. Slash. Carloss Santana. It's like they were interchangeable.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #341 posted 12/04/17 3:48pm

PeteSilas

daingermouz2020 said:

bonatoc said:


"Off The Wall" is better. It's not trying too hard.
All Michael's voice colors are already there (OK, There's no "Human Nature").
I dunno, I wish Michael had worldwide success with the big afro and his big ol'nose.
That's one thing that bothers me with "Thriller" and its über-fame.
Or maybe "Bad". It's hard to say because he was kind of gracious in his alien skin.
But then again, it's hard to say if the attempt was proto-human or going whitey.

There's no politics, the title song is a kid scared of sex (all things that lurk in the dark: mainly his big brothers humping groupies in the same hotel room, back in the sixties), there are beautiful ballads, a hard rocker, Quincy himself doesn't back up from the fact that it was conceived as a blockbuster.
It's very good craftsmanship, but a bit of artistry is lost in the process.
"Off The Wall" comes from the guts of the guy singing, and pour from everyone's playing.

Spoons, man. You can't beat the spoons.

[Edited 12/3/17 7:32am]

I always thought "Off the Wall" was the better album compared to Thriller vocally.It imo was more soulful. Thriller would come in 2nd for me. Bad ,Dangerous, HIStory, except for maybe about 3 tracks per album is pretty much what Id call formula album. Each of those albums always used the same gospel chiors of Andre and Saundra Crouch. Each album had a rock guitarist. I get it with Eddie Vanhalen on Beat It but after that on his albums used Steve Stevens. Slash. Carloss Santana. It's like they were interchangeable.

I've pointed that out several times but some of us MJ fans just can't see anything negative about the man. good albums but not attempting to really stretch out. I think blood on the dance floor had some of his most adventurous stuff but that wasn't really an album. so, the one word titles, the guitarist du jour, the woman on the prowl motif. He could have done so much more.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #342 posted 12/04/17 8:52pm

bboy87

avatar

PeteSilas said:

Karo548363 said:

As Jamie said: 'Mayhem'. Notice not only what he says, but how he does it. When he's reminiscing the excitement is still there as if he entered the stadium right now. The memories are still so fresh and vivid and maybe just because he suplements with some ginseng pills, but it is undisputable when Michael subject comes to the table folks are losing it, especially those who experienced his magic in person.

i remember that, pretty good description of how Michael made people react. God, I've been missing Prince so much now you guys are dragging me back into missing michael, it took a long time to get over Michaels death, the only good thing, if it could be called that was by the time Prince died, i'd lost a couple other boyhood heroes too and so it wasn't unfamiliar territory.

It's pretty obvious from my posts that I've been collecting old articles, adverts, and other artifacts from his career. Kinda like a database lol

Hearing from my friends who were around for the J5, Jacksons, Off The Wall, Thriller, and Bad eras is really interesting.

Hearing them how they were hyped for the Bad tour and were preparing for the shows, and at times, the excitement was too much to take for some other fans. That's what the fainting was. It was the heat of course, but also the emotion and excitement. A friend of mine who went to the '87 leg in Australia said it wasn't like that with people constantly passing out but the excitement was there as the Australian fanbase had gotten bigger with each album but hadn't toured there since the Jackson 5 tour there in '73.




"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #343 posted 12/05/17 11:52pm

MD431Madcat

avatar

You can say the same about BRUNO who gives a F--- as well! wink

MotownSubdivision said:

spacedolphin said:

hmmm Probably not, many artists in the good old days had an aura and mythos to them, he happened to be very commercially successful so extrapolate from there. Maybe in the 2000s when he was still trying to call himself the king of pop after getting his ass handed to him by Timberlake, he was more infamous for his embarassing antics by then.

Eh... Timberlake even at his hottest point was never the King of Pop. By the time of his solo debut, he was the hottest "newcomer" on the block with shades of MJ but he wasn't MJ; MJ owned the title. Besides, JT's biggest hit (or hits) back then was an MJ leftover lol

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #344 posted 12/06/17 9:09am

StrangeButTrue

avatar

Pre-death maybe not so much, post-death abso-friggin-lutely. Its like they took the Elvis model and went nuclear with it.

if it was just a dream, call me a dreamer 2
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #345 posted 12/06/17 6:27pm

purple05

StrangeButTrue said:

Pre-death maybe not so much, post-death abso-friggin-lutely. Its like they took the Elvis model and went nuclear with it.


MJ is one of the few artist who isn't any bigger post death as he was predeath. He was always huge
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #346 posted 12/06/17 8:00pm

PeteSilas

purple05 said:

StrangeButTrue said:

Pre-death maybe not so much, post-death abso-friggin-lutely. Its like they took the Elvis model and went nuclear with it.

MJ is one of the few artist who isn't any bigger post death as he was predeath. He was always huge

he was always huge but his death overnight softened his image, people were suddenly all wishy washy about the child molestation stories which they allowed to taint their opinions pre-death. he is definitely faring better in death although there will be the questions about molestation for a long time. Seems to be proof for each side.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #347 posted 12/06/17 8:58pm

purple05

PeteSilas said:



purple05 said:


StrangeButTrue said:

Pre-death maybe not so much, post-death abso-friggin-lutely. Its like they took the Elvis model and went nuclear with it.



MJ is one of the few artist who isn't any bigger post death as he was predeath. He was always huge

he was always huge but his death overnight softened his image, people were suddenly all wishy washy about the child molestation stories which they allowed to taint their opinions pre-death. he is definitely faring better in death although there will be the questions about molestation for a long time. Seems to be proof for each side.




I agree death softened his image and people give him more respect. But to me there's no proof for each side. He wasn't guilty of what he was accused of. I may sound like Accra ed MJ fan but it's true. I wasn't a huge fan before death but after he died I actually read the court cases and it was a bunch of BS! It also proved to me what I always thought, the media isn't about I informing you of the truth but of whatever narrative they want you to believe.
MJ is guilty of surrounding himself with 'yes men'. I guess they served their purpose for him but all they did was milk him dry and ruin his reputation in the process. He should've surrounded himself with real people and he wouldn't have had those issues he had later in life.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #348 posted 12/08/17 11:45pm

Free2BMe

purple05 said:

PeteSilas said:



purple05 said:


StrangeButTrue said:

Pre-death maybe not so much, post-death abso-friggin-lutely. Its like they took the Elvis model and went nuclear with it.



MJ is one of the few artist who isn't any bigger post death as he was predeath. He was always huge

he was always huge but his death overnight softened his image, people were suddenly all wishy washy about the child molestation stories which they allowed to taint their opinions pre-death. he is definitely faring better in death although there will be the questions about molestation for a long time. Seems to be proof for each side.




I agree death softened his image and people give him more respect. But to me there's no proof for each side. He wasn't guilty of what he was accused of. I may sound like Accra ed MJ fan but it's true. I wasn't a huge fan before death but after he died I actually read the court cases and it was a bunch of BS! It also proved to me what I always thought, the media isn't about I informing you of the truth but of whatever narrative they want you to believe.
MJ is guilty of surrounding himself with 'yes men'. I guess they served their purpose for him but all they did was milk him dry and ruin his reputation in the process. He should've surrounded himself with real people and he wouldn't have had those issues he had later in life.


You are correct. There was never any proof on both sides. The media only reported what they WANTED you to know. The average person who didn't care to know the truth was completely brainwashed by the tabloid media and mainstream media. Of course MJ fans followed every single thing about the false allegations and the scam trial by reading transcripts, looking at the obvious lies and manipulations. The entire thing was complete and utter bullshit. Yes, the proof is there that Michael was completely FRAMED! I'm just glad that a jury- a conservative jury- saw through the crap and found an INNOCENT- 1000% innocent- man NOT GuILTY!
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #349 posted 12/09/17 6:37am

MotownSubdivis
ion

avatar

StrangeButTrue said:

Pre-death maybe not so much, post-death abso-friggin-lutely. Its like they took the Elvis model and went nuclear with it.

You can say this for anybody who dies. There sure were a lot of Prince and George Michael fans suddenly coming out of the woodwork when both of them died.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 12 of 12 « First<3456789101112
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Was Michael Jackson's fame a little overrated, lol?