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Reply #240 posted 11/21/17 5:36pm

SoulAlive

did any of you have the ‘Thriller’ leather jacket? I only had the ‘Beat It’ jacket but it was an imitation one...not the real thing smile
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Reply #241 posted 11/21/17 10:09pm

purple05

SoulAlive said:

did any of you have the ‘Thriller’ leather jacket? I only had the ‘Beat It’ jacket but it was an imitation one...not the real thing smile

No too young but I can only imagine lol
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Reply #242 posted 11/21/17 11:46pm

bboy87

avatar

SoulAlive said:

did any of you have the ‘Thriller’ leather jacket? I only had the ‘Beat It’ jacket but it was an imitation one...not the real thing smile

A friend of mine who was around for the J5 era, the Jacksons, Off The Wall, Thriller.... all of it said when the J5 went national with I Want You Back and were on the Ed Sullivan show, all the black kids in his neighborhood all felt like they had a stake in the group. "Something in the air changed" was his words

He said the Thriller period was unreal. He was everywhere but still elusive. The videos were shown on TV, everybody was talking about the Motown 25 performance and he had 7 top 10 singles in '83 before the Thriller single was out yet Michael wasn't out doing loads of interviews, not touring, and wasn't on shows like the Tonight Show or Soul Train or American Bandstand.

He was at the Victory tour and said the....demographic in the audience was a stark difference from the Destiny and Triumph tours lol

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #243 posted 11/22/17 2:28am

SoftSkarlettLo
visa

wow, 9 pages of replies!!! I wasn't expecting a (mostly positive) discussion on this. And I'm certainly not bashing MJ as someone here suggested I was. Like I said, I saw a comment from a random person asking was MJ a little overrated - this was years ago, but it popped into my head recently and I thought it would be juicy discussion material. razz

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Reply #244 posted 11/22/17 7:59am

purple05

NorthC said:


But there is one artist that you hear everywhere in the world.
And that's Bob Marley.

im glad I found an article to back up the absurdity of your statement.
While Bob is very popular because he transcends music. MJ is up there as well. If not more famous. To be very clear.... I'm not comparing the volume of sales but the countries in which they appear

Bob Marley
America
US – 41,935,000
Canada – 4,790,000
Argentina – N/A
Brazil – N/A
Mexico – N/A
Asia – N/A
Japan – N/A
Oceania
Australia – 2,485,000
New Zealand – 1,075,000
Europe – 51,810,000
UK – 9,880,000
France – 10,960,000
Germany – 7,790,000
Italy – 5,020,000
Spain – 2,350,000
Sweden – 1,150,000
Netherland – 2,205,000
Switzerland – 1,235,000
Austria – 805,000
Finland – 380,000
World – 120,150,000

America
US – 83,200,000
Canada – 8,250,000
Argentina – 1,785,000
Brazil – 5,500,000
Mexico – 4,500,000
Asia – 25,690,000
Japan – 10,100,000
Oceania
Australia – 5,360,000
New Zealand – 1,000,000
Europe – 90,730,000
UK – 26,275,000
France – 14,390,000
Germany – 13,750,000
Italy – 6,130,000
Spain – 4,115,000
Sweden – 1,975,000
Netherland – 3,930,000
Switzerland – 1,865,000
Austria – 1,250,000
Finland – 485,000
World – 235,440,000
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Reply #245 posted 11/22/17 8:25am

NorthC

^ I don't understand this post. A long list of Bob Marley's record sales is supposed to prove that saying you see and hear him everywhere in the world is absurd?
[Edited 11/22/17 8:30am]
[Edited 11/22/17 8:35am]
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Reply #246 posted 11/22/17 9:39am

PeteSilas

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

wow, 9 pages of replies!!! I wasn't expecting a (mostly positive) discussion on this. And I'm certainly not bashing MJ as someone here suggested I was. Like I said, I saw a comment from a random person asking was MJ a little overrated - this was years ago, but it popped into my head recently and I thought it would be juicy discussion material. razz

the short answer is, no, his fame was not overrated (artistry wasn't either but that's more subjective) and anyone who was alive and in the US at the time could vouch for this fact.

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Reply #247 posted 11/23/17 6:28am

MD431Madcat

avatar

All True.

bboy87 said:

SoulAlive said:

did any of you have the ‘Thriller’ leather jacket? I only had the ‘Beat It’ jacket but it was an imitation one...not the real thing smile

A friend of mine who was around for the J5 era, the Jacksons, Off The Wall, Thriller.... all of it said when the J5 went national with I Want You Back and were on the Ed Sullivan show, all the black kids in his neighborhood all felt like they had a stake in the group. "Something in the air changed" was his words

He said the Thriller period was unreal. He was everywhere but still elusive. The videos were shown on TV, everybody was talking about the Motown 25 performance and he had 7 top 10 singles in '83 before the Thriller single was out yet Michael wasn't out doing loads of interviews, not touring, and wasn't on shows like the Tonight Show or Soul Train or American Bandstand.

He was at the Victory tour and said the....demographic in the audience was a stark difference from the Destiny and Triumph tours lol

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Reply #248 posted 11/23/17 9:09am

alphastreet

SoulAlive said:

did any of you have the ‘Thriller’ leather jacket? I only had the ‘Beat It’ jacket but it was an imitation one...not the real thing smile



I had thriller video view master slides passed down to me before bad era. I also apparently had sparkly gloves when not old enough to remember
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Reply #249 posted 11/23/17 11:04am

purple05

NorthC said:

^ I don't understand this post. A long list of Bob Marley's record sales is supposed to prove that saying you see and hear him everywhere in the world is absurd?
[Edited 11/22/17 8:30am]
[Edited 11/22/17 8:35am]

Im not discounting the fact that he's popular nor am I talking about sales numbers. I'm only posting that to show the countries the artist albums were purchased. Isn't it safe to assume that if someone is more known than another then music purchases(no matter the amount) should show up in the same or more areas?
Now if we are referring to Bob Marleys image as a cultural icon, that's totally different.
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Reply #250 posted 11/23/17 4:59pm

MD431Madcat

avatar

+1 cool lol lol lol

SoulAlive said:

did any of you have the ‘Thriller’ leather jacket?
I only had the ‘Beat It’ jacket but it was an imitation one...not the real thing smile

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Reply #251 posted 11/24/17 6:04am

novabrkr

Those sales figures posted several posts above indicate that Michael Jackson was about twice as popular as Bob Marley.

You know what that means? Bob Marley has been an incredibly popular artist!

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Reply #252 posted 11/24/17 7:46am

NorthC

Popularity is more than record sales. Plenty of people in the world don't have enough money to buy records. In Africa, Latin America and Asia there is a huge black market; you can buy anything on the streets including bootleg cassettes and later CDs for prices local people can afford. And those are the places where you'll hear Bob Marley coming out of the speakers. Not only him of course, but I remember walking down the streets in Nairobi and thinking, oh no, not Three Little Birds again. biggrin
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Reply #253 posted 11/24/17 8:11am

bonatoc

avatar

It's not Michael that was overrated as much Prince was underrated.
Not to us, obviously. By the general public.
Michael Jackson® is for all ages. Prince is R-rated.

It's easy to understand Warner jealousy of Epic Records.
Here's a guy that know how to capitalize. That waits 5 years between albums.
That willingfully plays the imaginary role of the mega-star (that must be surrounded by the military themselves, or else)
until the brainwashing makes it real.

Prince stayed in Minnie and kicked his butt.
Cuz' Whose butt is it, when the dust settles?

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #254 posted 11/24/17 8:23am

purple05

novabrkr said:

Those sales figures posted several posts above indicate that Michael Jackson was about twice as popular as Bob Marley.

You know what that means? Bob Marley has been an incredibly popular artist!


Exactly! That's all I'm saying. Both are hugely popular though
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Reply #255 posted 11/24/17 8:37am

purple05

NorthC said:

Popularity is more than record sales. Plenty of people in the world don't have enough money to buy records. In Africa, Latin America and Asia there is a huge black market; you can buy anything on the streets including bootleg cassettes and later CDs for prices local people can afford. And those are the places where you'll hear Bob Marley coming out of the speakers. Not only him of course, but I remember walking down the streets in Nairobi and thinking, oh no, not Three Little Birds again. biggrin

America, UK and Japan are the biggest markets. In places like India, China and Africa there are huge black markets but MJ is still huge in those places.
I'm not saying Bob Marley isn't huge. But you're trying to downplay MJ like he isn't one of the most popular figures ever.
China

Brazil @1:40

Africa

India
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Reply #256 posted 11/24/17 8:39am

purple05

bonatoc said:

It's not Michael that was overrated as much Prince was underrated.
Not to us, obviously. By the general public.
Michael Jackson® is for all ages. Prince is R-rated.

It's easy to understand Warner jealousy of Epic Records.
Here's a guy that know how to capitalize. That waits 5 years between albums.
That willingfully plays the imaginary role of the mega-star (that must be surrounded by the military themselves, or else)
until the brainwashing makes it real.

Prince stayed in Minnie and kicked his butt.
Cuz' Whose butt is it, when the dust settles?


How is Prince underrated?
It's widely accepted that Prince is one of the most talented musicians EVER. Now many don't care for his music but that's personal taste. Lots of younger people don't know about Prince because he removed all of his music, videos and performers from the internet.
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Reply #257 posted 11/24/17 9:31am

bonatoc

avatar

purple05 said:

bonatoc said:

It's not Michael that was overrated as much Prince was underrated.
Not to us, obviously. By the general public.
Michael Jackson® is for all ages. Prince is R-rated.

It's easy to understand Warner jealousy of Epic Records.
Here's a guy that know how to capitalize. That waits 5 years between albums.
That willingfully plays the imaginary role of the mega-star (that must be surrounded by the military themselves, or else)
until the brainwashing makes it real.

Prince stayed in Minnie and kicked his butt.
Cuz' Whose butt is it, when the dust settles?

How is Prince underrated? It's widely accepted that Prince is one of the most talented musicians EVER. Now many don't care for his music but that's personal taste. Lots of younger people don't know about Prince because he removed all of his music, videos and performers from the internet.


Yeah, post-urn maybe.
Sorry to be blunt.

Please don't lecture me on Prince's talent.
I thought we were talking about their fame at the time they were living.
Prince was widely ignored. Michael got off better, while doing not so much, but after a childhood in slavery, he deserved some holidays.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #258 posted 11/24/17 9:56am

PeteSilas

wow, that was great, the amazon vid, i'd never have thought they knew him. but you know what, it makes all the sense in the world that they'd know an american entertainer, i'm talking tribal peoples, they'd gravitate towards a shamanistic figure like a MJ or an Elvis. I've said it many times, that you're not Indian if you don't love Elvis, he was so Indian in his aesthetic.

purple05 said:

NorthC said:
Popularity is more than record sales. Plenty of people in the world don't have enough money to buy records. In Africa, Latin America and Asia there is a huge black market; you can buy anything on the streets including bootleg cassettes and later CDs for prices local people can afford. And those are the places where you'll hear Bob Marley coming out of the speakers. Not only him of course, but I remember walking down the streets in Nairobi and thinking, oh no, not Three Little Birds again. biggrin
America, UK and Japan are the biggest markets. In places like India, China and Africa there are huge black markets but MJ is still huge in those places. I'm not saying Bob Marley isn't huge. But you're trying to downplay MJ like he isn't one of the most popular figures ever. China Brazil @1:40 Africa India

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Reply #259 posted 11/24/17 10:06am

purple05

bonatoc said:



purple05 said:


bonatoc said:

It's not Michael that was overrated as much Prince was underrated.
Not to us, obviously. By the general public.
Michael Jackson® is for all ages. Prince is R-rated.

It's easy to understand Warner jealousy of Epic Records.
Here's a guy that know how to capitalize. That waits 5 years between albums.
That willingfully plays the imaginary role of the mega-star (that must be surrounded by the military themselves, or else)
until the brainwashing makes it real.

Prince stayed in Minnie and kicked his butt.
Cuz' Whose butt is it, when the dust settles?



How is Prince underrated? It's widely accepted that Prince is one of the most talented musicians EVER. Now many don't care for his music but that's personal taste. Lots of younger people don't know about Prince because he removed all of his music, videos and performers from the internet.


Yeah, post-urn maybe.
Sorry to be blunt.

Please don't lecture me on Prince's talent.
I thought we were talking about their fame at the time they were living.
Prince was widely ignored. Michael got off better, while doing not so much, but after a childhood in slavery, he deserved some holidays.


Oh you're speaking of fame. I thought you were referring to Prince's stature. I was like huh? He's widely respected.
Prince was never going to be as famous as MJ. MJ as a child was very famous as well. There's no way Prince or really anyone was going to match that. Nor does it matter in the grand scheme of things either(for Prince).
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Reply #260 posted 11/24/17 10:10am

purple05

PeteSilas said:

wow, that was great, the amazon vid, i'd never have thought they knew him. but you know what, it makes all the sense in the world that they'd know an american entertainer, i'm talking tribal peoples, they'd gravitate towards a shamanistic figure like a MJ or an Elvis. I've said it many times, that you're not Indian if you don't love Elvis, he was so Indian in his aesthetic.




I don't think Elvis looked Indian at all.
If anything he probably had a black distant relative from slavery.
But they said they seen MJ in town. I wonder what town they were near.
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Reply #261 posted 11/24/17 10:12am

PeteSilas

purple05 said:

PeteSilas said:

wow, that was great, the amazon vid, i'd never have thought they knew him. but you know what, it makes all the sense in the world that they'd know an american entertainer, i'm talking tribal peoples, they'd gravitate towards a shamanistic figure like a MJ or an Elvis. I've said it many times, that you're not Indian if you don't love Elvis, he was so Indian in his aesthetic.

I don't think Elvis looked Indian at all. If anything he probably had a black distant relative from slavery. But they said they seen MJ in town. I wonder what town they were near.

the black relative thing has been a rumour since the early days too but i think it's possible he had both. He did have a documented strain of cherokee blood.

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Reply #262 posted 11/24/17 10:13am

ThatWhiteDude

avatar

PeteSilas said:

purple05 said:

PeteSilas said:

the black relative thing has been a rumour since the early days too but i think it's possible he had both. He did have a documented strain of cherokee blood.

Interesting, never knew that eek

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Reply #263 posted 11/24/17 10:23am

purple05

PeteSilas said:



purple05 said:


PeteSilas said:

wow, that was great, the amazon vid, i'd never have thought they knew him. but you know what, it makes all the sense in the world that they'd know an american entertainer, i'm talking tribal peoples, they'd gravitate towards a shamanistic figure like a MJ or an Elvis. I've said it many times, that you're not Indian if you don't love Elvis, he was so Indian in his aesthetic.


I don't think Elvis looked Indian at all. If anything he probably had a black distant relative from slavery. But they said they seen MJ in town. I wonder what town they were near.


the black relative thing has been a rumour since the early days too but i think it's possible he had both. He did have a documented strain of cherokee blood.


Everybody think they have Cherokee. They didn't even inhabit the area he's from.
OT: I've been doing geanology research and what most people think is 'Indian' in their blood was mulattos/quadroons that called themselves Indians. Indians didn't really mix with others like that. Even in some Caribbean countries it's not Indian but multigenerationally African/European people. When the genealogy is traced, it's usually started with an African woman and European Make. In America it was taboo to mix like they did in the Caribbean. Which is why we aren't as mixed.
[Edited 11/24/17 10:24am]
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Reply #264 posted 11/24/17 10:39am

PeteSilas

trust me, people have done his geneology and yes he's cherokee, from two different sources i believe, you can google it if you don't believe me. it should be obvious he's indian just from looking at him though. another interesting bit of geneology was that his maternal grandmother was a jewess but for some reason, the jews I spoke to don't want him. Yet, according to their very own rules, he's jewish. People are wierd when it comes to race.

purple05 said:

PeteSilas said:

the black relative thing has been a rumour since the early days too but i think it's possible he had both. He did have a documented strain of cherokee blood.

Everybody think they have Cherokee. They didn't even inhabit the area he's from. OT: I've been doing geanology research and what most people think is 'Indian' in their blood was mulattos/quadroons that called themselves Indians. Indians didn't really mix with others like that. Even in some Caribbean countries it's not Indian but multigenerationally African/European people. When the genealogy is traced, it's usually started with an African woman and European Make. In America it was taboo to mix like they did in the Caribbean. Which is why we aren't as mixed. [Edited 11/24/17 10:24am]

[Edited 11/24/17 10:40am]

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Reply #265 posted 11/24/17 10:43am

PeteSilas

heres some pics of some of what us indians call "breeds" who were elvis' grandparents: http://www.elvis-aron-pre...alogy.html

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Reply #266 posted 11/24/17 3:28pm

purple05

PeteSilas said:

heres some pics of some of what us indians call "breeds" who were elvis' grandparents: http://www.elvis-aron-pre...alogy.html




Hmmm who knows but here's some more information about that subject

'As Riley started to research Morning Dove’s story, though, he says things just didn’t add up. For example, her name. Morning Dove is an English name. Riley notes that not only would the Cherokee have spoken their own language with native names, they usually had one-word names. So he doubts she was a Cherokee.

More importantly, ‘Morning’ was Mansell’s mother’s first name, and ‘White’ was the name of nearby neighbors. He says these are good indicators that Mansell either renamed her or she chose an anglicized name.

And Riley says there are other inconsistencies. “There were no Cherokees in south Alabama, very unlikely that William Mansell rode 900 miles [1450 kilometers] to North Carolina to get a Cherokee Indian woman when they’re all around him in south Alabama. Impossible that William Mansell ever married this Indian, two reasons: one, marrying as we see it, is not an Indian custom, and William Mansell already had a wife. She’s living in Marion County, Alabama, the same time William is living there with the Indian girl.”

Riley also points out that Mansell fought with General Andrew Jackson, later president Jackson, who was well known for waging war on the Indians. One of the way soldiers like Mansell would have been compensated for their service was with land and captured Indians. Riley suggests it is more than likely that Mansell, like most European Americans of the time, viewed Native Americans as second-class citizens.

“The most likely thing that happened,” he concludes, “is that Morning White Dove was a refugee from one of the Creek Indian Villages that were being destroyed in Alabama. And for whatever reason – he liked the way she looked, wanted some domestic help – he just took her and took her home.”

While there is no record that William Mansell married Morning Dove, they did have four children, three of whom survived. She died at the age of 35, most likely in childbirth, delivering their daughter Morning Dizenia. Like her mother, Morning Dizenia helped nurse people in her community, and she married the town doctor. Her older brother, John, would someday become the great great grandfather of Elvis Presley.'

https://en.geneanet.org/g...rises-html

'However, it is not clear if any documentary evidence has been produced that Morning Dove White was of Native American ancestry. At least one census entry for Morning Dove White’s son, John Mansell, describes him as “White”. Several other census listings of Morning’s other children list them as “White” as well. Research has shown that it is unlikely that Morning Dove White was a Cherokee, although it is possible that she had ancestry from another tribe. Background information on this can be found here.'

http://ethnicelebs.com/elvis-presley
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Reply #267 posted 11/24/17 3:31pm

purple05

PeteSilas said:

trust me, people have done his geneology and yes he's cherokee, from two different sources i believe, you can google it if you don't believe me. it should be obvious he's indian just from looking at him though. another interesting bit of geneology was that his maternal grandmother was a jewess but for some reason, the jews I spoke to don't want him. Yet, according to their very own rules, he's jewish. People are wierd when it comes to race.



purple05 said:


PeteSilas said:


the black relative thing has been a rumour since the early days too but i think it's possible he had both. He did have a documented strain of cherokee blood.



Everybody think they have Cherokee. They didn't even inhabit the area he's from. OT: I've been doing geanology research and what most people think is 'Indian' in their blood was mulattos/quadroons that called themselves Indians. Indians didn't really mix with others like that. Even in some Caribbean countries it's not Indian but multigenerationally African/European people. When the genealogy is traced, it's usually started with an African woman and European Make. In America it was taboo to mix like they did in the Caribbean. Which is why we aren't as mixed. [Edited 11/24/17 10:24am]

[Edited 11/24/17 10:40am]



Read those thinks in the post above. They debunk those Cherokee and Jewish myths.
Like I've said, I've done geneology and a red flag is the Cherokee claim. Most people don't have it and there's no evidence of it either.
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Reply #268 posted 11/24/17 7:08pm

PeteSilas

i'lll look at them closer later but i can tell you now, i know an indian when i see one and elvis is indian, also, saying a guy or a woman claimed white (you wouldn't know this) was not unusual and in fact very common for Indians in those days, that kind of confusion exists in my own family it's just called passing. women can get away with that easier than men for a lot of reasons. at any rate, his ancestors look even more indian than he does AND there were two indian ancestors not just morning dove.

purple05 said:

PeteSilas said:

trust me, people have done his geneology and yes he's cherokee, from two different sources i believe, you can google it if you don't believe me. it should be obvious he's indian just from looking at him though. another interesting bit of geneology was that his maternal grandmother was a jewess but for some reason, the jews I spoke to don't want him. Yet, according to their very own rules, he's jewish. People are wierd when it comes to race.

[Edited 11/24/17 10:40am]

Read those thinks in the post above. They debunk those Cherokee and Jewish myths. Like I've said, I've done geneology and a red flag is the Cherokee claim. Most people don't have it and there's no evidence of it either.

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Reply #269 posted 11/24/17 7:08pm

PeteSilas

hell maybe i should pass for white, maybe it would make things easier, but no, i'm proud of what i am and would never do that.

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