CynicKill said:

Graycap23 said:

SoftSkarlettLovisa said: Some of those folks were on the payroll.

-

I keep forgetting this fact.

It's widely reported that many of those Bobbysoxers pulling their hair out were paid plants.

And I read somewhere that this thing goes all the way back to the composer Liszt.

the colonel did that with elvis sometimes too, there is a segment of elvis' post-army press conference where a girl comes out and gives elvis her number, it looks so contrived it's ridiculous.

bboy87 said:

2045RadicalMattZ said:

bboy87 said:

Listening to the recent leaks of multitracks, DAMN his voice was such an instrument it's frustrating that around Bad, he started overdoing it with the certain ticks that he became famous for and faux gruff that he was doing (Man had such a smooth voice when you hear the acapellas of Rock With You, Human Nature, P.Y.T., Man In The Mirror, and other songs)

WHOA-AH-AOOOO! MULTI TRACKS? ????!!! Anything non torrent? Could u possibly PM me the info if u have any? That would be AMAZING. ..and maybe someday i could *CORRECT the INVINCIBLE mixes.

In the past...I'd say 2 years, multitracks to these songs have leaked:

I Want You Back

ABC

I'll Be There

Got To Be There

Dancing Machine

Never Can Say Goodbye

Shake Your Body Down To The Ground

Don't Stop Til You Get Enough

Rock With You

Working Day and Night

Get on The Floor

Off The Wall

Girlfriend

She's Out of My Life

Burn This Disco Out

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

Thriller

Billie Jean

Human Nature

P.Y.T.

Black or White

In The Closet

Scream

You Are Not Alone

Ghosts

Blood On The Dancefloor

Much Too Soon

Hollywood Tonight

CynicKill said:

Graycap23 said:

SoftSkarlettLovisa said: Some of those folks were on the payroll.

-

I keep forgetting this fact.

It's widely reported that many of those Bobbysoxers pulling their hair out were paid plants.

And I read somewhere that this thing goes all the way back to the composer Liszt.

Fact?? What fact? Where is the proof? Just someone claiming some shit, doesn't make it factually true. You have to consider the conditions at these stadium shows. Waiting for hours. Little food, little drinking (because at one point you can't go to the restroom anymore). Running. Getting crushed. Heat or cold and rain. Little or only hot air. Then the excitement kicking in when the moment has finally arrived. It's only a matter of time that someone is gonna pass out. And not everyone being pulled and carried out of the front rows at concerts is actually really passed out. Some just can't take it anymore and need to get out. Being pulled out is the easiest way to do that.

Never thought that Michael's fame was overrated. He changed so many aspects of music and pop culture. And he was such a complicated, charismatic personality it just drew all of the attention to his life.

The subject mentioned here: why were all the fangirls fainting? I nearly fainted too seeing my idols. When somebody changed your life, your heart gets off the rails, am I right? And music has that power, surely M.J.'s music delivers it in tones. He was just a god to them; Peter Pan personified who brought them happiness, for one night they had prince in shining armour, untouchable by all of the ugliness of this world. They wanted to get a little bit warm in his presence, in his light, which he was projecting miles ahead. Is it wrong? Oh no. Not at all. Of course, maybe it's silly, naive, etc. But when there's someone you hold onto so bad, 'cause it keeps you going nevermind the darkness around you, it's one of the most beautiful things ever.

bboy87 said:

No. Did it get out of hand at times? Yes but that fame was well deserved.

Let's start with Off The Wall

The first album by a solo artist to have four top 10 singles and was the biggest selling album by a black artist until Thriller came along. The album was critically acclaimed almost 40 years since its release, it's still highly regarded

Thriller... before we talk about the videos and all that, the Thriller album reached #1 before the videos for Billie Jean and Beat It even recieved airplay on MTV. In fact, the songs were being played on radio stations across the US before they were even released as singles. The album was great. You don't sell 68 million copies of an album and it's not a great piece of work.

He was marketed as larger than life, with his videos premiering on network television at primetime, He had that "it" that so many artists want but don't have, and in my opinion, haven't had since Michael, Prince, Madonna, Janet, Whitney, and their generation.

The people passing out at his shows weren't just passing out from overheating. They were passing out from the anticipation and excitement. It was a combination of all three for a lot of people

And the whole, "a lot of songs written by others", Of Michael's 13 #1 singles in the US, Michael wrote eight of them (9 if you include Say Say Say which he co-wrote with McCartney). From 1979 to 2009, Michael released 45 singles as a solo artist. While he didn't write all of his songs, He wrote or co-wrote 32 of them of those singles

All of This.

I don't get why so many on here are so adamant about trying to undermine Michael's success and impact. People continuing to say he wrote none of his own hits when the writing credits to them are available via a quick Google search (and have been available for decades on the albums themselves) are only exhibiting their ignorance and personal bias.

[Edited 11/16/17 9:59am]

NorthC said:

^^Hmmm... I still prefer to keep my senses during a concert and actually hear what the artist is singing (not lip synching.)

And...? What does that have to do with who wrote his songs?

Were you responding to my post?

NorthC said:

^^Hmmm... I still prefer to keep my senses during a concert and actually hear what the artist is singing (not lip synching.)

I didn't say I go to the concerts just to lose touch with reality. I think I'm good at keeping balance between my inner craziness for artist and hearing and seeing things that are actually happening.

But the question was if the Michael's fame was overrated -> no -> the girls had all the rights in this world to faint over that man/artist/entertainer, 'cause he was at the top of his game anytime he got on that damn stage.

MotownSubdivision said:

Karo548363 said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

2045RadicalMattZ said:

Yeah... he did kinda pioneer that sort of artifice...

Breathers and then other songs where singing was secondary to the movement...


it's truly demanding stuff... I've seen youtube vids of the same show.. some are broadcast/edited with overdubs, others are raw feeds... I've always prefered raw feeds/performance...

but stuff like STRANGER IN MOSCOW, JAM, BLOOD ON THE DANCEFLOOR, DANGEROUS, were mostlylip synced... As for BAD... which songs were?

gonna guess... parts of BAD, Most of SMOOTH CRIMINAL, parts of ANOTHER PART OF ME

The BAD tour was the final tour where he DIDN'T lip sync. I was at the MSG show.

He lip synced from the DANGEROUS tour on. Check the Wembley Tour show in 88 and the Bucarest show from 92/3(?) for reference.

Well then you're WRONG. I was at 2 of the MN shows and he DID lip-synch many songs.

sro100 said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

The BAD tour was the final tour where he DIDN'T lip sync. I was at the MSG show.

He lip synced from the DANGEROUS tour on. Check the Wembley Tour show in 88 and the Bucarest show from 92/3(?) for reference.

Well then you're WRONG. I was at 2 of the MN shows and he DID lip-synch many songs.

i didn't want to split hairs but i always thought it was somewhere in the bad tour when he relied on lipsyncing, the exact time doesn't matter so much. He was good enough to do without it even though i know his perfectionism and the intricacy of his moves made it all very hard. Prince did it and james did Mike could have done it. I'd rather hear bad notes or even a great singer having a bad day than i would the same recorded version i've paid for and heard a million times.

again, i hear that he blew his voice out in the bad tour, i have yet to see or hear any real proof of that.

NorthC said:

MotownSubdivision said:

And...? What does that have to do with who wrote his songs?

Were you responding to my post?

No, I was responding to the post above you who said that passing out over seeing your idol on stage is a beautiful thing. I don't think it is. Imagine paying a small fortune for a concert ticket, getting all excited and then, when you finally get there, the combination of a huge crowd all pushing and shoving to get as close as possible to Him, overexcitement and overheating makes you pass out so you miss the concert. I don't think that's beautiful. In fact, it's why The Beatles stopped performing. So the fact that Michael Jackson was more famous than anybody (except maybe Elvis Presley and Bob Marley) is without a doubt, but whether that's a good thing, either for him of his fans is open to debate. One could argue that it was his fame that killed him.

fame killed or maimed most great men, there is a cost for something like that and it is pretty high.

sro100 said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

The BAD tour was the final tour where he DIDN'T lip sync. I was at the MSG show.

He lip synced from the DANGEROUS tour on. Check the Wembley Tour show in 88 and the Bucarest show from 92/3(?) for reference.

Well then you're WRONG. I was at 2 of the MN shows and he DID lip-synch many songs.

Smooth Criminal, Bad, The Way You Make Me Feel, and Man In The Mirror was what he lipsynched on the second and third legs of the tour. The first US shows were completely live

Karo548363 said:

Never thought that Michael's fame was overrated. He changed so many aspects of music and pop culture. And he was such a complicated, charismatic personality it just drew all of the attention to his life.

The subject mentioned here: why were all the fangirls fainting? I nearly fainted too seeing my idols. When somebody changed your life, your heart gets off the rails, am I right? And music has that power, surely M.J.'s music delivers it in tones. He was just a god to them; Peter Pan personified who brought them happiness, for one night they had prince in shining armour, untouchable by all of the ugliness of this world. They wanted to get a little bit warm in his presence, in his light, which he was projecting miles ahead. Is it wrong? Oh no. Not at all. Of course, maybe it's silly, naive, etc. But when there's someone you hold onto so bad, 'cause it keeps you going nevermind the darkness around you, it's one of the most beautiful things ever.

Beautiful stated.

NorthC said:

Karo548363 said:

I didn't say I go to the concerts just to lose touch with reality. I think I'm good at keeping balance between my inner craziness for artist and hearing and seeing things that are actually happening.

But the question was if the Michael's fame was overrated -> no -> the girls had all the rights in this world to faint over that man/artist/entertainer, 'cause he was at the top of his game anytime he got on that damn stage.

No human being should be idolized. Before he went on stage, Mr. Jackson pulled down his glitter pants and took a shit like all other mortal human beings, just like Prince, Jimi, Otis, Marvin, Elvis, Bowie, Bootsy, Madonna, Bono, Jagger, Dylan, they were/are all just human. No need to idolize any of them. They're musicians. Not prophets. Not Idols.

They take no shit, the don't do that don't be blasphemous.

Can't "overrate" MJ's fame. It was/is what it was/is. There's just too many variables you have to consider when even thinking about discussing something like that. People attended the shows, bought the albums, and expressed themselves for a variety of different reasons.

scorp84 said:

laurarichardson said:

purple05 said:

scorp84 said:

Can't "overrate" MJ's fame. It was/is what it was/is. There's just too many variables you have to consider when even thinking about discussing something like that. People attended the shows, bought the albums, and expressed themselves for a variety of different reasons.

No matter how much more talented you think Prince is, he just wasn't MJ. It was a combination of things plus MJs other worldly charisma that put him above his peers. At his peak MJ was the shit and that can't be denied

Prince had charisma too

ThatWhiteDude said:

purple05 said:

scorp84 said: No matter how much more talented you think Prince is, he just wasn't MJ. It was a combination of things plus MJs other worldly charisma that put him above his peers. At his peak MJ was the shit and that can't be denied

Prince had charisma too

all the great stars did, in my opinion, no one had the charisma of michael except for Elvis. It's a mystical thing and it must wear on these men too, men who are insecure and shy yet by the virtue of something they didn't even ask for they can't escape notice. there was an opera singer who quoted her father who had said "some people come on stage and they are put under a spotlight, some people bring it with them".

Mj earned his spot in Pop history.

I really can't see how anyone can claim that he was overrated.

No one gave Mj anything, he EARNED it.

Did he have flaws? Sure.....but show me someone who didn't.

The biggest thing about Mj that I didn't care for was his live act. He did a lot of lip syncing and the basics of his live show was the same from Thriller thru the end of his career.

The other thing that bothered me was his focus on the video aspects of his career as opposed 2 the actual music. I believe the video became more important 2 Mj than the music.

[Edited 11/17/17 8:56am]

Graycap23 said:

Mj earned his spot in Pop history.

I really can't see how anyone can claim they he was overrated.

No one gave Mj anything, he EARNED it.

Did he have flaws? Sure.....but show me someone who didn't.

The biggest thing about Mj that I didn't care for was his live act. He did a lot of lip syncing and the basics of his live show was the same from Thriller thru the end of his career.

The other thing that bothered me was his focus on the video aspects of his career as opposed 2 the actual music. I believe the video became more important 2 Mj than the music.

Great comment

Graycap23 said:

Mj earned his spot in Pop history.

I really can't see how anyone can claim they he was overrated.

No one gave Mj anything, he EARNED it.

Did he have flaws? Sure.....but show me someone who didn't.

The biggest thing about Mj that I didn't care for was his live act. He did a lot of lip syncing and the basics of his live show was the same from Thriller thru the end of his career.

The other thing that bothered me was his focus on the video aspects of his career as opposed 2 the actual music. I believe the video became more important 2 Mj than the music.

i didn't like how he got stuck in the thriller era, he was wearing a jheri curl all the way up to the beginning of dangerous. the vids too, he did some great ones but nothing he hadn't already done. Ghost was just a darker, more personal version of thriller. He was still writing some genius level shit though and in some ways improving sans quincy and crew in areas of production and songwriting. He just didn't put out enough and yes, the lip syncing stuff was kind of a cheat for the fans. His dancing was changing and growing all the way up to history I think. would have been nice if he was a little more like Prince, meaning, that he'd change things up radically with everything from time to time, but what do you expect of someone who's sole purpose was to sell, not take risks. Still, great artist, like any of the greats, when he really brought it, all the stupid shit fell to the side.

ThatWhiteDude said:

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

purple05 said:

it was close enough to a jheri curl and the same style he had for thriller. i think he could have done a more spontaneous show, all that regimented crap with a zillion dancers tired after awhile to me. Maybe he was afraid to be up there by himself, i don't know, not many musicians have the courage to get up all by themselves or even be the front man. lots of musicians, most of them hide from the spotlight because that's where all the attention goes. and before you say it, yes i know he did things alone, but way too much bullshit with a bunch of professional dancers that wasn't even necessary. In fact, it hurts his case, if all those people could do what he's doing then how hard is the shit? Prince apparently tried to tell him in their meeting in vegas that he thought a stripped down show would be the way to go but people don't change, michael was doing more of the useless bells and whistles for the this is it show.

purple05 said:

PeteSilas said:

i didn't like how he got stuck in the thriller era, he was wearing a jheri curl all the way up to the beginning of dangerous. the vids too, he did some great ones but nothing he hadn't already done. Ghost was just a darker, more personal version of thriller. He was still writing some genius level shit though and in some ways improving sans quincy and crew in areas of production and songwriting. He just didn't put out enough and yes, the lip syncing stuff was kind of a cheat for the fans. His dancing was changing and growing all the way up to history I think. would have been nice if he was a little more like Prince, meaning, that he'd change things up radically with everything from time to time, but what do you expect of someone who's sole purpose was to sell, not take risks. Still, great artist, like any of the greats, when he really brought it, all the stupid shit fell to the side.

MJ was not wearing a jerri curl after Thriller lol That was some curly style but it wasn't that god awful jerri lol MJ wasn't going to be like Prince. Let's just establish that first. Have you seen the video of his HBO rehearsals? They were changing his choreography up and it didn't look great at all. Actually some of it is downright horrible. To keep his act fresh MJ would've had to remix the songs and add maybe a new piece here or there. N do stripped down shows or something. The choreography us too iconic to change. [Edited 11/17/17 8:52am]