Free2BMe said:

Dasein said:

I see a lot of you do not understand the differences between liquid and fixed assets. Because of
this lack of understanding, you do not comprehend how someone can have, for an example, the
ATV publishing, but still be broke.

Michael Jackson had lots of money in fixed assets but he was spending more than he was making and
was in debt when he died. If you remove his teat from your mouth, and stop navel-gazing, you'd
have a more complete picture of who he was as a person, instead of idolizing him which means you
never know who he really was/is.

Source 1, 2, 3.

Sweetie, I understand the difference. However, I was pointing out that Michael wasn't broke. Michael could have sold his half interest in the Sony/ATV catalogue and received liquid assets (cash).

Hunny, I doubt that you do know the difference. Besides, Michael Jackson didn't sell his interest
in the ATV catalog and was in debt when he died. If you have a million dollars worth of fixed as-
sets but millions of dollars in debt, you most certainly can still be broke. And, you obviously didn't
read the articles I posted: Michael Jackson died in debt despite having fixed assets worth millions
as indicated by a forensic accountant. What will it do to your heart and your attachment to him for
you to acknowledge that?

People are so fucking strange when it comes to their celebrity idols . . .

Dasein said:

Free2BMe said:

Dasein said:

Hunny, I doubt that you do know the difference. Besides, Michael Jackson didn't sell his interest
in the ATV catalog and was in debt when he died. If you have a million dollars worth of fixed as-
sets but millions of dollars in debt, you most certainly can still be broke. And, you obviously didn't
read the articles I posted: Michael Jackson died in debt despite having fixed assets worth millions
as indicated by a forensic accountant. What will it do to your heart and your attachment to him for
you to acknowledge that?

People are so fucking strange when it comes to their celebrity idols . . .

Sweet Thang, I already said that Michael did NOT sell his interest in the Sony/ATV cataloge. What are you talking about, Sugar? I said that Michael COULD have sold his interest in the cataloge, but didn't. What will it do to YOUR psyche for you to admit that Michael was not penniless, as you and others want him to be. What will it do your fragile mind to admit that Michael STILL owned HALF of Sony/ATV when he was murdered. What will it do to your intense hatred of MJ to admit that your hatred does not diminish that FACT. Let's see if you can comprehend this other FACT. Michael's estate just sold his share in the Sony/ATV cataloge for $950 million. Bottomline Sweet Thang is that Michael was not broke. I know it would make you and others like you, feel better if the opposite was true. Continue with your alternative "facts", and I will continue to disagree and check you. Finally, what will it do to YOUR heart and your agenda for you to acknowledge the fact that Michael STILL owned HALF of Sony/ATV when he died.Btw,If any other artist had that many assests, would you detractors say that they were broke? Of course not. You would twist yourselves like a pretzel, trying to defend and make excuses for him or her. Sugar,Your HYPOCRISY is repugnant and it smells. [Edited 7/8/17 7:42am]

I know you said Jackson could have:

Dasein said:

When a celebrity is reported to be "broke",it's not the same as a 'regular' person being broke what I mean is....it's not like Michael was receiving food stamps or anything,lol....he probably just had a simple cash flow problem which he could have easily fixed if he had toured more often.

A few times in Prince's career (1988 and 1994),it was reported that he was having financial problems too.But like I said,it's not really what you may think.It was just a simple cash flow problem,but these guys had many ways to generate income (touring,licensing their songs to movies and commercials,etc) IF things had really gotten that bad.

Free2BMe said:

Dasein said:

My point is that he did not. This means he did not have any liquid assets upon his death despite
having millions in fixed assets. There's no way you could have known the difference between the two
kinds of assets and still make the claim he was not broke upon his death. Or, you don't know what
the word "broke" (having no money) means. Michael Jackson died in debt which means he did not
have any money, i.e., liquid assets - duh.

You don't know what you're talking about; so far, Scorp and I are the only ones in this discussion
who have presented "facts" to support our opinions while you're just talking outta yer asshole.

Duh! Michael was not BROKE when died. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? A billion dollars in assets means you are NOT broke. As Jermaine said, "Michael was NEVER broke". Of course, I didn't need Jermaine to say that. I already knew that Michael could have sold his interest in Sony/ATV at anytime and received cash. The fact that he didn't let me know that he was not "broke". You don't have to be a genius to know that.

anyone can look this fact up for themselves...

even a King of Pop fan had a blog site attesting to this very fact.

in the very end, to secure that contract with AEG for those shows, Michael Jackson had to relinquish everything, everything...or let me put it this way, knowing that Michael hadn't performed a concert in 12 years, the contract was written in a way where if the shows didn't happen, he would lose everything. Essentially, he leveraged a career worth of assets to secure the deal. And the basis for everything was the 10-12 million advance given to him by AEG to agree to make the official accouncement that he would be doing the shows

That house he was living in while "rehearsing" for those shows, that crib was furnished by AEG

it was concert or bust at that point

all that being said, it would have been better for all parties involved if everything would have been reschedule a year later.

Free2BMe said:

Dasein said:

My point is that he did not. This means he did not have any liquid assets upon his death despite
having millions in fixed assets. There's no way you could have known the difference between the two
kinds of assets and still make the claim he was not broke upon his death. Or, you don't know what
the word "broke" (having no money) means. Michael Jackson died in debt which means he did not
have any money, i.e., liquid assets - duh.

You don't know what you're talking about; so far, Scorp and I are the only ones in this discussion
who have presented "facts" to support our opinions while you're just talking outta yer asshole.

Duh! Michael was not BROKE when died. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? A billion dollars in assets means you are NOT broke. As Jermaine said, "Michael was NEVER broke". Of course, I didn't need Jermaine to say that. I already knew that Michael could have sold his interest in Sony/ATV at anytime and received cash. The fact that he didn't let me know that he was not "broke". You don't have to be a genius to know that.

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that just because you have millions of dollars in fixed
assets doesn't mean you have millions of dollars in liquid assets? Do you understand the dif-
ference between "cash on hand" and otherwise? If Jackson is living off of loans using his fixed
assets as collateral, and died in debt, you best believe he was fucking broke.

There is not one single report or newspaper article you can appeal to which suggests that Michael
Jackson wasn't in debt when he died and not experiencing grave financial difficulties upon his death:

in short, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, Carousal-lite.

SoulAlive said:

When a celebrity is reported to be "broke",it's not the same as a 'regular' person being broke what I mean is....it's not like Michael was receiving food stamps or anything,lol....he probably just had a simple cash flow problem which he could have easily fixed if he had toured more often.

Soul, you should take Scorp's advice: anyone can look up the reports on Jackson's financial difficulties
and see that he most certainly had a cash flow problem that would not have been easily fixed by sim-
ply touring more often but by reducing his spending on his lavish lifestyle. He was spending more
money than he was earning and living off of Bank of America cash loans with his fixed assets used as
collateral. It's hard for his fans to accept that the most successful recording artist of all time who was
also one of the most profitable recording artists of all time was in hundreds of millions of dollars in
debt.

Source 1

Source 2

Source 3

Source 4

Source 6

[Edited 7/8/17 10:28am]

Dasein said:

Free2BMe said:

Dasein said: Duh! Michael was not BROKE when died. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? A billion dollars in assets means you are NOT broke. As Jermaine said, "Michael was NEVER broke". Of course, I didn't need Jermaine to say that. I already knew that Michael could have sold his interest in Sony/ATV at anytime and received cash. The fact that he didn't let me know that he was not "broke". You don't have to be a genius to know that.

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that just because you have millions of dollars in fixed
assets doesn't mean you have millions of dollars in liquid assets? Do you understand the dif-
ference between "cash on hand" and otherwise? If Jackson is living off of loans using his fixed
assets as collateral, and died in debt, you best believe he was fucking broke.

There is not one single report or newspaper article you can appeal to which suggests that Michael
Jackson wasn't in debt when he died and not experiencing grave financial difficulties upon his death:

in short, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, Carousal-lite.

.

Agreed. Having a lot of assets is wonderful, but it doesn't pay the bills.

.

Michael lost Neverland and was living in a rented house when he died.

.

The bigger the star you are, the more bills you have and it doesn't matter if you earn 50 thousand per year or 50 Million per year; if you are spending more than you earn and have more bills going out than money coming in.......well, you get the picture.

cloveringold85 said:

^

Says the big mouth who has yet to provide any "FACTS" to back up her claims.

Free2BMe said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Agreed. Having a lot of assets is wonderful, but it doesn't pay the bills.

.

Michael lost Neverland and was living in a rented house when he died.

.

The bigger the star you are, the more bills you have and it doesn't matter if you earn 50 thousand per year or 50 Million per year; if you are spending more than you earn and have more bills going out than money coming in.......well, you get the picture.

Michael didn't lose Neverland while he was alive. The Only reason that he was staying in a rented house was because he refused to even go back there after that SOB Tom Sneddon raided his home. Where do you people come up with the shit that you post? Michael could have gone back to Neverland anytime he wanted; however, he said that it didn't feel like home anymore. Damn, can't you people read and research FACTS, instead of regurgitating gossip and innuendo?

.

You have got to be kidding me, right? Neverland ranch was going into foreclosure in 2008, and Michael's attorney, Londell McMillan found an investment banker who purchased the loan.

.

No one is just pulling this information out of their asses!

.

Of course Neverland didn't feel like "home" anymore because of what happened to him, but he was also having a lot of financial difficulties. Why can't you wrap your head around that fact?

.

Geesh!! No one is here starting "rumors" -- this has been information that has been out there for years!

cloveringold85 said:

Free2BMe said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

You have got to be kidding me, right? Neverland ranch was going into foreclosure in 2008, and Michael's attorney, Londell McMillan found an investment banker who purchased the loan.

.

No one is just pulling this information out of their asses!

.

Of course Neverland didn't feel like "home" anymore because of what happened to him, but he was also having a lot of financial difficulties. Why can't you wrap your head around that fact?

.

Geesh!! No one is here starting "rumors" -- this has been information that has been out there for years!

Today, Neverland Ranch is STILL owned by the Michael Jackson Estate.

.

Yes, that is true, thanks to the investment banker who purchased the loan!!

.

And they still haven't found a buyer yet, and they have to keep dropping the price. No one is interested. It takes a special type of buyer to buy a property like Neverland.

cloveringold85 said:

Free2BMe said:

cloveringold85 said: Today, Neverland Ranch is STILL owned by the Michael Jackson Estate.

.

Yes, that is true, thanks to the investment banker who purchased the loan!!

.

And they still haven't found a buyer yet, and they have to keep dropping the price. No one is interested. It takes a special type of buyer to buy a property like Neverland.

I believe if the estate had been able to find a way to use it as an tourist attraction or whatever, they would've kept it, but from what I hear, the residents are NOT having that so honestly, it's in their best interest to sell it.

What sucks is that so many of his belongings are still in huge storage units

bboy87 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yes, that is true, thanks to the investment banker who purchased the loan!!

.

And they still haven't found a buyer yet, and they have to keep dropping the price. No one is interested. It takes a special type of buyer to buy a property like Neverland.

I believe if the estate had been able to find a way to use it as an tourist attraction or whatever, they would've kept it, but from what I hear, the residents are NOT having that so honestly, it's in their best interest to sell it.

What sucks is that so many of his belongings are still in huge storage units

.

Yes, they wanted to keep it going as an amusement park and museum, much like we have with Graceland and now, Paisley Park. It's a real shame that they could no do something with Neverland; I think it would have been wonderful.

.

OMG, to imagine all MJs wordly posessions in storage......massive!!

Scorp and Dasein manhandled this thread so hard the detractor can't even reply.

Logical Human Beings: 1

The Fanatics: 0

bboy87 said:

[Edited 7/8/17 16:55pm][/
[b][Edited 7/8/17 17:03pm]

LayzieKiddZ said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I don't understand how people keep overlooking the fact that Michael knowingly took Propofol, even though he knew he wasn't supposed to be--should not have...... I don't deny the fact that Conrad was an enabler and he could have walked away.....or better yet, he could have CARED for Michael or found someone who would.

.

Anyways, this is tiring me out now, LOL

.

[Edited 7/6/17 17:41pm]

Edited again...typos!

[Edited 7/6/17 17:41pm]

Hah yeah, I don't see how people can keep having the same discussion.

Either way, MJ and Prince passing marked the end of an era. Would've been great to have another MJ album, specifically done in the style of History (his peak in my opinion). And who knows what more gems Prince would blessed us with now that he finally went back to doing hard rock before he passed.

I'm with you on this and nothig else.

Free2BMe said:

bboy87 said:

I believe if the estate had been able to find a way to use it as an tourist attraction or whatever, they would've kept it, but from what I hear, the residents are NOT having that so honestly, it's in their best interest to sell it.

What sucks is that so many of his belongings are still in huge storage units

Because of access, roads, zoning, etc. , Neverland can't become a tourist attraction. Just think how great that would be if the Estate could so. It would be super successful. Yeah, it sucks that his belongings are in storage. However, it will be left to his children in deciding what to do with his things. Everything belongs to them. The difference between Graceland and Paisley Park becoming tourist attractions is that both are on open streets with easy access. Neverland is on a secluded road, sprawling over almost 3,000 acres. Neverland would have been an awesome attraction with its beautiful grounds, lakes, buildings, train station, movie building, amusement rides, zoo,guest cottages, etc. There are hundreds and hundreds of acres that are nothing but forest. Unbelievable beauty and tranquility. [Edited 7/8/17 16:45pm] [Edited 7/8/17 16:55pm][/ [b][Edited 7/8/17 17:03pm]

.

Yes, Neverland is very remote.......veeeery remote!!

Scorp said:

Dasein said:

Michael Jackson had lots of money in fixed assets but he was spending more than he was making and
was in debt when he died. If you remove his teat from your mouth, and stop navel-gazing, you'd
have a more complete picture of who he was as a person, instead of idolizing him which means you
never know who he really was/is.

Source 1, 2, 3.

as a entertainment columnist said

MJ was a "millionaire" spending like a "billionaire"

and this is why Martin Bashir said in that 2003 Documentary

“It’s very difficult for him, he has been at the very heights of the musical business, and it’s hard for an individual to be that high and then to come down the mountain, and I’m quite worried how the next few years will play out for Michael Jackson, because I think he finds the whole idea of a declining career impossible to cope with.”

there was nothing left in the end, and that's why after all these years, I think about what should have been rather than what became, when these shows were announced, even though it was supposed to be a show, it was all for show

if he had stayed the course after reaching the very pinnacle, none of this would have happened

[Edited 7/7/17 17:07pm]

Sad but true.

214 said:

Scorp said:

as a entertainment columnist said

MJ was a "millionaire" spending like a "billionaire"

and this is why Martin Bashir said in that 2003 Documentary

“It’s very difficult for him, he has been at the very heights of the musical business, and it’s hard for an individual to be that high and then to come down the mountain, and I’m quite worried how the next few years will play out for Michael Jackson, because I think he finds the whole idea of a declining career impossible to cope with.”

there was nothing left in the end, and that's why after all these years, I think about what should have been rather than what became, when these shows were announced, even though it was supposed to be a show, it was all for show

if he had stayed the course after reaching the very pinnacle, none of this would have happened

[Edited 7/7/17 17:07pm]

Sad but true.

.

I agree with what that columnist said, which doesn't happen very often.

Nothing else really matters anymore but music, so please let's get back to that. What fo you think about Destiny album, to me one of his best albums in his whole carreer and the best from The Jacksons.

homesquid said:

ML2016 said:

No, he isn't. MJ's post thriller is mediocre in comparison to P. No question about it. Before Thriller he was the greatest entertainer on Earth, but his work (including performances, recordings, appearances) after that went downhill. MJ BEFORE 1984 is slightly above P. After 1984, P eats MJ alive, nose included.

Nope. Bad and Dangeous are as good as or better than anything Prince post Lovesexy. Prince is a prince but MJ is the king.

And don't forget about HIStory.

Nothing else really matters anymore but music, so please let's get back to that. What fo you think about Destiny album, to me one of his best albums in his whole carreer and the best from The Jacksons.

Since his death, this is what has been released (with unreleased material):

Hello World: The Solo Motown Collection- A 3 CD set of Michael's 1971-1975 albums on Motown, "Got To Be There", "Ben", "Music and Me", "Forever, Michael" as well as the 1984 and 1986 compilations, "Farewell My Summer Love", and "Looking Back at Yesterday". Also included was the original 1973 mixes of the songs included on Farewell My Summer Love and the original 1969 mix of "Twenty Five Miles" which was included on the 1987 remix album, "The Original Soul of Michael Jackson"

I Want You Back: The Unreleased Masters- 2009 compilation that included unreleased songs from 1969 to 1973

The Jackson 5 Live at The Forum- 2010 2 CD set of Jackson 5 concerts from 1970 and 1972

Come and Get It: The Rare Pearls- 2012 boxset released the same day as Bad25. Includes unreleased material from 1969 to 1975

This Is It- the 2009 film and soundtrack chronicling Michael's last rehearsals

Michael- a 2010 compilation of material recorded from 1982, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2001, and 2007. Also known for three songs with "dubious origin"

Bad25- 2012 3 CD/1 DVD boxset re-releasing "Bad", with 8 unreleased songs, 2 alternate versions of "I Just Can't Stop Loving You", and 3 new remixes. Also included is the July 16, 1988 concert at Wembley stadium in video and CD format.

Michael Jackson's Bad25- Spike Lee's documentary on the Bad album, videos, and tours.

Michael Jackson's Journey from Motown to Off The Wall- Spike Lee's 2016 documentary on The Jackson 5's rise, exit from Motown to CBS, and Michael's rise to adult stardom.

Xscape- 2014 compilation of unreleased material recorded from 1981, 1983, 1985, 1991, 1998, 1999, and 2001

Michael Jackson's Vision- 2010 dvd set of most of Jackson's videos. Included Michael's last music video, "One More Chance" and Can You Feel It, Blame It On The Boogie, Enjoy Yourself, and others on DVD for the first time. Not included was Goin' Places, Off The Wall (live), Watzupwithu, and the original version of Blood on The Dancefloor

Michael Jackson: Live at Wembley July 16, 1988- The concert included in Bad25 released as a standalone DVD

bboy87 said:

Free2BMe said:

bboy87 said:

Since his death, this is what has been released (with unreleased material):

Hello World: The Solo Motown Collection- A 3 CD set of Michael's 1971-1975 albums on Motown, "Got To Be There", "Ben", "Music and Me", "Forever, Michael" as well as the 1984 and 1986 compilations, "Farewell My Summer Love", and "Looking Back at Yesterday". Also included was the original 1973 mixes of the songs included on Farewell My Summer Love and the original 1969 mix of "Twenty Five Miles" which was included on the 1987 remix album, "The Original Soul of Michael Jackson"

I Want You Back: The Unreleased Masters- 2009 compilation that included unreleased songs from 1969 to 1973

The Jackson 5 Live at The Forum- 2010 2 CD set of Jackson 5 concerts from 1970 and 1972

Come and Get It: The Rare Pearls- 2012 boxset released the same day as Bad25. Includes unreleased material from 1969 to 1975

This Is It- the 2009 film and soundtrack chronicling Michael's last rehearsals

Michael- a 2010 compilation of material recorded from 1982, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2001, and 2007. Also known for three songs with "dubious origin"

Bad25- 2012 3 CD/1 DVD boxset re-releasing "Bad", with 8 unreleased songs, 2 alternate versions of "I Just Can't Stop Loving You", and 3 new remixes. Also included is the July 16, 1988 concert at Wembley stadium in video and CD format.

Michael Jackson's Bad25- Spike Lee's documentary on the Bad album, videos, and tours.

Michael Jackson's Journey from Motown to Off The Wall- Spike Lee's 2016 documentary on The Jackson 5's rise, exit from Motown to CBS, and Michael's rise to adult stardom.

Xscape- 2014 compilation of unreleased material recorded from 1981, 1983, 1985, 1991, 1998, 1999, and 2001

Michael Jackson's Vision- 2010 dvd set of most of Jackson's videos. Included Michael's last music video, "One More Chance" and Can You Feel It, Blame It On The Boogie, Enjoy Yourself, and others on DVD for the first time. Not included was Goin' Places, Off The Wall (live), Watzupwithu, and the original version of Blood on The Dancefloor

Michael Jackson: Live at Wembley July 16, 1988- The concert included in Bad25 released as a standalone DVD

Was the "Michael Jackson Experience" video game released before Michael's death or after? Btw, bboy great list. Yet, you still have MJ fans complaining. [Edited 7/9/17 18:31pm]

Yeah, it came out in late 2010. In November-December 2010, we had "Michael", "Vision", and "The Michael Jackson Experience" all come out in stores.

bboy87 said: