Bulldog said:

are you serious? - He gave MTV legs to stand on by and validating the music video platform!

NEXT!

LOL! I just said the same thing.

it's a valid question to ask what MJ's music would be like without the music video component

my answer is "very popular!"

Timmy84 said:

He was already a legend before MTV.

I never understood why Human Nature never got a proper video, that's one of my favorite MJ songs.

suga10 said:

I never understood why Human Nature never got a proper video, that's one of my favorite MJ songs.

Really? I was sort of glad there was no official music video of Human Nature...I just thought this song itself, the message of 'Human Nature' could be interpreted in so many different ways that if they were to make a music video, it'd have been hard to pick one solid concept ^_^;;;

I think they should've made a music video of The Lady In My Life >_<♥

babynoz said:

Graycap23 said:

On his career?

On his sales?

On the way people view his career?

Mj did NOT blow up, until Thriller and the video era.

Thoughts?

Gray, you KNOW I luv ya like a play-cousin but you gotta stop the PWI, (posting while intoxicated),

J/K

Let me explain.

I used 2 see Mj quite a bit here and there pre Thriller and he was a well known celeb, but a "normal" celeb. He could go out in public and he would be treated like any other celeb. He had a very nice solo career.

After the success of Thriller he was on a level probably NEVER seen in the music business pre-Thriller. He could NOT go in public the same way as he could before. His concerts were on a completely level and fans just seem 2 go "crazy" after his success with Thriller. Do u understand what I'm saying?

He left an impact BEFORE Thriller.

Marrk said:

Graycap23 said:

Mj did NOT blow up, until Thriller and the video era.

Thoughts?

Neither did Prince, Until Purple Rain in the same era.

I agree. I'm conviced that the movie Purple Rain served as a 90 minute video and helped blow the album up 2 the sales level that it attained. Prince has not sold any other project like he did Purple Rain and I still believe that the movie was main reason 4 that. Purple Rain was NOT Prince's best album yet it has the most sales. Why else would it have the largest sales?

Thriller was just the icing on the cake, when it came to MJ's success.

But he was definitely getting bigger right before that.

I like to think I know good music. MJ had me sold back when he was in The Jackson 5. His whole career is amazing. Checkout some of his rare performances from back in the day on YouTube. I'm tellin' you, dude had so much talent! I realize Thriller put him over the top but to really appreciate Michael, one must look at the whole picture. Miss u MJ!

klick

When he was a little child back with The Jackson Five, they were huge. They were all over the cereal boxes (I think it was Honey Comb or Alpha Bits), they had a cartoon series on TV, and they had a variety show on TV. They even later became the inspiration for folks like New Edition which later sparked New Kids On The Block.

Then during the disco era, "Shake Your Body Down To The Ground" was big, Michael had also starred in "The Wiz", and when he made "Off The Wall", it was absolutely huge. "Triumph" was even moderately successful and his siblings Jermaine and Latoya had even branched out on their own and Janet had already been on "Good Times" and "Different Strokes" which she probably would not have landed if she had not been a part of the Jackson family.

Michael already had made a big impact. The thing is that "Thriller" was so damn unusually hugely successful that it put him on a level where his albums that followed it would never top it but still be huge selling albums that far topped the sales of the albums prior to "Thriller". Actually, music as a whole by other artists would have been better off in the long run if "Thriller" had never happened because everybody kept watering their music down trying to get some of those diverse sales that "Thriller" had. But yes, Michael Jackson had already made a major impact before "Thriller". "Thriller" just upped the sales expectations as to what is considered "successful".

vainandy said:

. But yes, Michael Jackson had already made a major impact before "Thriller". "Thriller" just upped the sales expectations as to what is considered "successful".

Can u honestly compare the Off the Wall Mj 2 the Thriller Mj career wise?

Graycap23 said:

vainandy said:

. But yes, Michael Jackson had already made a major impact before "Thriller". "Thriller" just upped the sales expectations as to what is considered "successful".

Can u honestly compare the Off the Wall Mj 2 the Thriller Mj career wise?

Um, yes. lol. Actually, you can.

Bulldog said:

are you serious? - He gave MTV legs to stand on by and validating the music video platform!

NEXT!

Just look at what he had to go through to get his music played on MTV. He had to get CBS records to threaten to pull all their white artists' videos from the channel if they didn't play his videos. For CBS and Epic Records to stand behind him like that and make threats to MTV, proves what an impact Michael Jackson already had. The label had other black artists besides Michael Jackson and I seriously doubt they would have made a threat like that to MTV is someone like maybe Luther Vandross or Mtume wanted airplay on MTV.

Graycap23 said:

babynoz said:

Gray, you KNOW I luv ya like a play-cousin but you gotta stop the PWI, (posting while intoxicated),

J/K

Let me explain.

I used 2 see Mj quite a bit here and there pre Thriller and he was a well known celeb, but a "normal" celeb. He could go out in public and he would be treated like any other celeb. He had a very nice solo career.

After the success of Thriller he was on a level probably NEVER seen in the music business pre-Thriller. He could NOT go in public the same way as he could before. His concerts were on a completely level and fans just seem 2 go "crazy" after his success with Thriller. Do u understand what I'm saying?

Okay, I think I get where you're coming from a little better.

I would say that for someone like MJ, who has a combination of talent and incredible charisma, the music video format only enhanced what was already there. Like Prince, he has the "it" factor that gives him a compelling presence. Visuals are just an added component which magnifies a quality they already possessed.

To this day, Jermaine doesn't understand why Michael and not him,

PR people try hard to manufacture that quality and the result gets people's attention, but only for a short period of time.

How Prince differs is that he's not as accessible. Prince prefers to draw people through intrigue, mystery and a hint of danger, which is compelling in a different way than Mike who used a more open approach and was perceived to be as approachable as a puppy for most of his career.

Graycap23 said:

vainandy said:

. But yes, Michael Jackson had already made a major impact before "Thriller". "Thriller" just upped the sales expectations as to what is considered "successful".

Can u honestly compare the Off the Wall Mj 2 the Thriller Mj career wise?

"Off The Wall" was huge for it's day. "Thriller" just outsold it and everything else by millions of miles to where things would never be the same again as far as sales expectations go. If "Thriller" had never happened, the expectations for mega huge sales like it would not be out there. "Off The Wall" would have probably been the album associated with his name instead of "Thriller" because it had been a huge selling album.

Graycap23 said:

vainandy said:

. But yes, Michael Jackson had already made a major impact before "Thriller". "Thriller" just upped the sales expectations as to what is considered "successful".

Can u honestly compare the Off the Wall Mj 2 the Thriller Mj career wise?

You honestly think another black artist was having four top ten hits off one album, an album that sold up to seven million copies in the U.S. by 1982, and was as popular as Michael? Michael had fucking Stevie Wonder's number by 1979, same with Rick James. Prince didn't even have it like that COMMERCIALLY either (and we know that as a fact). The man had hits out of his ass with Off the Wall and the two Jacksons albums. Dude was BIG worldwide in '79, '80. Please. Like he was just "another R&B star" when Off the Wall was out. RIGHT. Plus the fact he got robbed at the Grammys. Don't get me started. Didn't you LIVE during that time?

Like trueiopian sometimes says, "you TRIED it".

[Edited 4/4/11 19:26pm]

Timmy84 said:

Graycap23 said:

Can u honestly compare the Off the Wall Mj 2 the Thriller Mj career wise?

You honestly think another black artist was having four top ten hits off one album, an album that sold up to seven million copies in the U.S. by 1982, and was as popular as Michael? Michael had fucking Stevie Wonder's number by 1979, same with Rick James. Prince didn't even have it like that COMMERCIALLY either (and we know that as a fact). The man had hits out of his ass with Off the Wall and the two Jacksons albums. Dude was BIG worldwide in '79, '80. Please. Like he was just "another R&B star" when Off the Wall was out. RIGHT. Plus the fact he got robbed at the Grammys. Don't get me started. Didn't you LIVE during that time?

Like trueiopian sometimes says, "you TRIED it".

[Edited 4/4/11 19:26pm]

I know all of that but I can't compare the Wall Mj 2 the Thriller Mj.

Timmy84 said:

Graycap23 said:

Can u honestly compare the Off the Wall Mj 2 the Thriller Mj career wise?

You honestly think another black artist was having four top ten hits off one album, an album that sold up to seven million copies in the U.S. by 1982, and was as popular as Michael? Michael had fucking Stevie Wonder's number by 1979, same with Rick James. Prince didn't even have it like that COMMERCIALLY either (and we know that as a fact). The man had hits out of his ass with Off the Wall and the two Jacksons albums. Dude was BIG worldwide in '79, '80. Please. Like he was just "another R&B star" when Off the Wall was out. RIGHT. Plus the fact he got robbed at the Grammys. Don't get me started. Didn't you LIVE during that time?

Like trueiopian sometimes says, "you TRIED it".

[Edited 4/4/11 19:26pm]

Calm your inner stan timmy.

Graycap23 said:

Timmy84 said:

You honestly think another black artist was having four top ten hits off one album, an album that sold up to seven million copies in the U.S. by 1982, and was as popular as Michael? Michael had fucking Stevie Wonder's number by 1979, same with Rick James. Prince didn't even have it like that COMMERCIALLY either (and we know that as a fact). The man had hits out of his ass with Off the Wall and the two Jacksons albums. Dude was BIG worldwide in '79, '80. Please. Like he was just "another R&B star" when Off the Wall was out. RIGHT. Plus the fact he got robbed at the Grammys. Don't get me started. Didn't you LIVE during that time?

Like trueiopian sometimes says, "you TRIED it".

[Edited 4/4/11 19:26pm]

I know all of that but I can't compare the Wall Mj 2 the Thriller Mj.

So is what you're really trying to say is that Michael Jackson after "Thiller" didn't even seem like he was the same person that he was before "Thriller"? If so, I totally agree.

But I see the same thing with Prince also. From 1978 to 1984, each album gradually sounded slightly different until they reached on up to a boiling point with "Purple Rain" which totally blew up crossover successwise and made him a huge star. Then, with "Around The World In A Day", he didn't even seem like he was the same person that had previously recorded stuff like "Let's Work", "Lady Cab Driver", "I Wanna Be Your Lover", "Head", "Controversy", etc.

Before and on up through "Purple Rain", he had always been a cool bad ass artist and had cool ass fans too. He had always been extremely talented but was mainly about throwing down hard with his cold ass musical style of his own. He was mainly funk/rock with an occasional slow jam or two but never too "artsy", never too "deep" and even though he had always been mysterious, he wasn't talking in riddles every time he said something. Not only did he change musicwise but a lot of his new fans were totally different than his previous fans. It kinda reminds me Michael Jackson also. I remember around 1988 or so and "Entertainment Tonight" had done a story about someone from Prince's old neighborhood that said Prince never came around anymore and that he wasn't the same person. Well, I can certainly understand that because why the hell would a major entertainer be coming around and hanging out in a neighborhood that they don't have to be in. But then they showed some of the audience that was outside some arena somewhere going to see a Prince concert and talked to some of them. These were some yuppie looking white kids that had on hoods that look like something monks would wear. They looked absolutely crazy as hell and they talked in all that Princebonic talk that made them sound crazy as hell. It definately reminded me of some loony ass Michael Jackson fans and Lord knows it was a total different audience than back in the day when Prince and Rick James fans were having fun trading insults. It just felt like Prince had gone off to La La Land with those loony toons.

I have to agree with what the majority have said here. Michael had made an impact with the "Off The Wall" album before MTV existed. With his talent I believe he would have continued to prosper without the aid of a break out video like "Thriller".

And let me just add that Michael gets a lot of credit for being a great dancer - which is warranted - but he was also a great singer and songwriter. I believe he's in the song writers hall of fame (I'm sure someone will shoot me down if he's not ). My point is a video can be used to showcase dancing ability, but not necessarily great singing and songwriting. Michael was greater than he's given credit for. IMO.

vainandy said:

Graycap23 said:

I know all of that but I can't compare the Wall Mj 2 the Thriller Mj.

So is what you're really trying to say is that Michael Jackson after "Thiller" didn't even seem like he was the same person that he was before "Thriller"? If so, I totally agree.

"On his career?

On his sales?

On the way people view his career?"

He is definitely talking numbers and charts rather than introspection, etc. And he's way off.

MJ opened the door, Prince and Madonna moved in and just took over the house!

[Edited 4/4/11 20:04pm]

Bulldog said:

MJ opened the door, Prince and Madonna moved in and just took over the house!

[Edited 4/4/11 20:04pm]

As far as MTV goes and the other video music outlets of the era such as "Friday Night Videos", Madonna was the female Michael Jackson. Whenever the two of them made a new video, they advertised the hell out of it's "World Premiere" and played the hell out of it afterwards.

Graycap23 said:

I know all of that but I can't compare the Wall Mj 2 the Thriller Mj.

LOL...did you even read what I wrote? The guy always had qualities that videos only magnified. And I still say that Mike impacted video makng more than videos impacted his career. His videos raised the bar.

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

You honestly think another black artist was having four top ten hits off one album, an album that sold up to seven million copies in the U.S. by 1982, and was as popular as Michael? Michael had fucking Stevie Wonder's number by 1979, same with Rick James. Prince didn't even have it like that COMMERCIALLY either (and we know that as a fact). The man had hits out of his ass with Off the Wall and the two Jacksons albums. Dude was BIG worldwide in '79, '80. Please. Like he was just "another R&B star" when Off the Wall was out. RIGHT. Plus the fact he got robbed at the Grammys. Don't get me started. Didn't you LIVE during that time?

Like trueiopian sometimes says, "you TRIED it".

[Edited 4/4/11 19:26pm]

Calm your inner stan timmy.

I think he's trying to say "Michael ain't shit".

Just kidding Gray but damn man.

[Edited 4/4/11 20:30pm]

Timmy84 said:

I think he's trying to say "Michael ain't shit".

Just kidding Gray but damn man.

[Edited 4/4/11 20:30pm]

There is no hidden agenda.

My question is about the IMPACT on video on his career, nothing else.

Any one who would not see the Mj talent and accomplishments pre Thriller is not very bright.

[Edited 4/4/11 20:44pm]

klick2me said:

I like to think I know good music. MJ had me sold back when he was in The Jackson 5. His whole career is amazing. Checkout some of his rare performances from back in the day on YouTube. I'm tellin' you, dude had so much talent! I realize Thriller put him over the top but to really appreciate Michael, one must look at the whole picture. Miss u MJ!

klick

The Jacksons were making big noise from 1969 onwards. And people were crazy about little Mike from day one. I can't see how anyone can compare what was going on with Michael and not think that he would've made little impact had MTV not happened. Hell without Michael, MTV was just another cable channel. They weren't making big money like that.

babynoz said:

Graycap23 said:

I know all of that but I can't compare the Wall Mj 2 the Thriller Mj.

LOL...did you even read what I wrote? The guy always had qualities that videos only magnified. And I still say that Mike impacted video makng more than videos impacted his career. His videos raised the bar.