Rhondab said:

so white folks should not get a tan and nobody should ever get any plastic surgery. sex changes are definitely out of the question. dying your hair is probably signs of self hate, too.

i don't know. i love myself. a lot. if i had the money, though, i'd certainly get a nose job and i would consider getting some chiseled facial structure. i'm a big fan of botox and expect to one day visit the doctor, myself. i suppose if people want to jump to conclusions and make their own assumptions they could decide (for me) that i don't like myself. i know they would be wrong and i suppose that is all that matters.

in the end, its kim's body and its her money and time. reading one thread about not judging people, letting people be themselves, yada yada yada, and then reading this thread gets me kinda confused.
[Edited 8/29/05 8:43am]

TheCrucialExperience said:

Yeah and the irony is that they are the ones who started that whole, "blonde is beautiful" thing. It's no wonder that people of ALL colors struggle with self-hatred, trying to dye hair blonde, have eye surgery, and the like. It affects us all...yes, even white women themselves!

laylow03 said:

I never understood why women of any color who weren't natural blondes would dye their hair for that purpose. Women of any color are more beautiful with their natural hair color. Blonde dye jobs are so poorly done they almost never look good.

SassyBritches said:

sassy...sometimes i think you just play dumb for the sake of argument. Did you take a look at lil kim's pics. You don't think that's about self hatred.


You know...maybe you don't

SassyBritches said:

So what kinda surgery are you gonna get to make you look more Black? Or Asian? Or Latino?

Oh, I'm sorry - that shit never dawned on you right? Maybe b/c it's over the top? Slightly insane? Uh huh...





.
[Edited 8/30/05 1:45am]

CalhounSq said:

um, no. you know what never dawned on me? it never dawned on me to tell someone else they have some serious problems just because they do something that i wouldn't do. that's the shit that never dawned on me.

SassyBritches said:

Oh, so you HAVE thought about a surgery that would make you look more other?? Cool, lets justify this Lil' Kim shit already - tell me, what would you like to have done & why?


You are SO fucking LAME

CalhounSq said:

well, i do aim to please.

and you missed my whole point, by the way. its not for me to "justify" what somebody else does. she does it. great. whoopdy doo. next. why do you care so much? why does what someone else does bother you? why does what someone else does bother anyone when it does not affect anyone else?

SassyBritches said:

It's about what people are conditioned as regards to right and wrong. The media pushes an image that even black women try to attain. Some people do the same thing with their sexuality, trying to be something they are not to be accepted and acceptable. That's the crux of the issue, not so much that she dyed her damn hair.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

so am i left to assume that you think sex change operations are "wrong?" or is that "ok" because you know people in that circle? i'm trying to figure out why some of you are so PC on some issues yet hold completely opposite positions on others.

Maybe if I was a republican trying to morph into a democrat, you'd get it....lol.



Sassy, I still say you understand what we're talking. I just can't believe you don't understand the issue ppl have with Lil Kim and MJ.

Rhondab said:

oh, let's not be misunderstood. i completely understand the issues people have. what i don't understand is why they have them. i say, fuck it...somebody wants to do something to their body that neither affects me or the rest of society...let them do it. they are not killing anyone. they are not robbing anyone. they are certainly not influencing anyone since the majority of the world thinks they are crazy. what's the problem? why not let people live?

SassyBritches said:

Everything you do affects somebody else in some way. When you're a public figure that effect is multiplied, like it or not. I agree it shouldn't be treated like a moral issue of right or wrong/ good or bad.

Regardless, Kim and MJ crossed a line where there's no question they have identity issues. Clearly these two are erasing what they share in common with other Africans. However, in Kim's case it doesn't seem she wants to be totally "white". She seems to want that "ideal" female image which promotes light tan (not white) skin and full lips (not white) as well as the thinner nose and blue eyes. MJ, on the other hand, erased all traces of his former self. In these cases it's not about enhancement but deconstruction. That's what people are taking issue with.

For the record Pam Anderson herself is probably almost as messed up in the head but she hasn't crossed the line where she looks like a freak show. I'm sure she dyes her hair some, she works on her tan, and I know she's had boob jobs. This is an enhancement which, while maybe not ideal, isn't so much about self-hatred as it is insecurity. The lesser of two evils I suppose. Blame it on the makers of the Barbie doll.

At least Kim wasn't going for the Winona Ryder look. Michael, though....

Prospect said:

I guess this is where it ends up when people keep calling you ugly.

TurnItUp said:

When is she gonna learn to be happy and secure about herself and how she looks - and it seems as if she aint happy about her race either; she looks so far from being a black woman. If her name wasnt even printed in the magazine, Id never would've known it was her.[/quote]

I guess this is where it ends up when people keep calling you ugly.[/quote]

Good point indeed. Maybe when she was "natural" she got dissed, so she went for the "assimilated" look and is being criticized for being a "self-hater."

Maybe.

Novabreaker said:

Right, like people from another race are lesser humans.

Aside from all this racial bullshit I wonder if people on this site ever looked at the artistic value of the picture.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I think it's every person's right to do what they want to their body and to decide whether or not they want to be a role model. Why does every black celebrity have to be looked upon as someone who should be a role model?

Novabreaker said:

Well how many white girls do you see nappin' their hair and permanemtly darkening their skin(and I don't mean tanning)? They're very happy with being white. Many blacks have a poor self-image. They'll destroy their looks to attain the American standard of beauty(light skin, blonds hair, blue eyes). At some point in their lives, they got the idea black isn't beautiful. To me, they are a discrace. Some of you will never understand.
[Edited 9/22/05 17:03pm]

I remember on a talk show years (Ronda or Rondell something like that) ago she said that she used to get made fun of for being "ugly and dark" so she definitely has some self-esteem issues.

My father has the same type of issues --he is a dark skin latino and he hates it he's never said it, but he always used to be called negrito and he HATED it.

squirrelscientist said:

Yeah, it's not just blacks who have an issue with color. All my Puerto-Rican friends tell me marrying someone of a lighter shade is considered "marrying-up". Sad.

squirrelscientist said:

Yeah I HAD that problem with a kid..
I liked a boy and he said "I don't like dark skinned girls" so I'd wish more than anything to be white..It's a shame little things like that can affect you.

DAYUM, this thread still runnin?

uPtoWnNY said:

And since when do all "white" people have blonde hair and blue eyes?

If a white woman with dark curly hair is straightening hers and dyeing it blonde it's no problem. If a "black" woman, even if she is bi-racial, does the same all of a sudden it's about her wanting to be white.

uPtoWnNY said:

Thank you...

RepoMan said:

I swear, some of you will just never understand. It's NOT about the singular act of dying one's hair blonde or some simple cosmetic effect. It's about making multiple & permanent changes that erode the features of your race in favor of "European" features. I think some of you are SO conditioned to think White is right (whether you know it or not) that you literally cannot see how fucking crazy & sad this shit is. LAWD

CalhounSq said:

Which permanent changes are you talking about? Her nose job, boob job, what?

Hopefully I will never be able to understand people like you and the less people do, the better it would be. One thing I do agree on. This whole discussion is fucking crazy and sad.

whodknee said:

If Lil Kim is your role model, you're fucked up in the head anyway. She has never conducted herself in a way that I thought "gee, I wish my kids would grow up to be just like her".

Funny, when white people do this stuff it's called "insecurity" and when black people do it it's called "self-hatred".

RepoMan said:

Basically, the "permanent changes" she was talkin bout was erasing what God gave you, using "cosmetic surgery" to rearrange your natural beauty and the natural features to convey some "fantasy" of what you THINK you should look like, which may be opposite of what you are (black to white, white to black, whatever) which most of us know is totally unnatural. Earlier in this thread, I said and I REPEAT there's nothin wrong with enhancing yourself, but damn.....

Bottom line, I believe we as humans were not made to be like Mr. Potato Head.

kiss85 said:

First of all, God has nothing to do with the way you look. Secondly, how does opting cosmetic surgery all of a sudden equal wanting to be white? There's no such thing as a uniform look for "Europeans". Do you think all European women have blonde hair, blue eyes, small waist, big boobs?

White women try to achieve the same "ideal" look and it's just as unnatural to them as it is for women of any other race. Make no mistake, to people like Calhoun this is ALL about race, not cosmetic enhancement vs natural.

CalhounSq said: