PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

How do you know drugs were a factor in his life from the beginning?? Were you present with him when he was taking these drugs? Sorry, but I'm going to take the statements of many of those who worked with, and lived with him during that time over someone who never knew him personally....

You mean the same people who are still lying to this day?

How about the other people who worked and lived with him, who said that he's always had a problem with drugs? How about those who have said that he would ask them to go to their Dr. and have a complaint so they can obtain those pills for him.

Why do you choose to believe some and not the others?

Can you specify those individuals who worked/lived with him in the 80's and said he always had a drug problem and/or asked them to get a script from their Doctor? Every statement I have heard from girlfriends, associates, friends, etc who were with him in the 80's have stated there were no drugs and rarely alcohol.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

You mean the same people who are still lying to this day?

How about the other people who worked and lived with him, who said that he's always had a problem with drugs? How about those who have said that he would ask them to go to their Dr. and have a complaint so they can obtain those pills for him.

Why do you choose to believe some and not the others?

Can you specify those individuals who worked/lived with him in the 80's and said he always had a drug problem and/or asked them to get a script from their Doctor? Every statement I have heard from girlfriends, associates, friends, etc who were with him in the 80's have stated there were no drugs and rarely alcohol.

Have you not listened to or read all of the documents?

herb4 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I kind of agree with herb that it would be difficult to imagine P being on opiates 24/7 through 80s and 90s.

I was referring more to uppers, like speed, coke or meth as Trevor seems to be rather aggressively and somewhat pompously implying - that Prince could not have stood up stamina wise against his schedule unless he used "amphetamines" of some sort, which is patently unture and likely would have CUT INTO his ouput rather than helped it, overall.

I was heavily involved in the artistic community in my younger days, as well as the restaurant industry, and had a lot of friends in the music scene. All of which are knee deep with drug users. The speed freaks and coke heads were the most unreliable of the bunch and were notoroiously unreliable. They never turned out shit and called out sick and flaked out more than the potheads, the drinkers or the hippie types combined. I know. I had a cocaine problem for a spell. You don't get SHIT done. You just THINK you are.

I'm not sure even how prevelant vicodin and percocet evenwere during the 80's and early to mid 90's, to be honest, but I know it's not as much as it is today - or at least as documented.

Right herb, exactly. Regardless of how much initial energy the coke or speed gives you, utlimately you are going to crash and also it will have a negative effect on your productivity.

*

Inevitably, regular or long term use of any drug is going to result in losing your ability to function with any type of regularity or routine.

*

The issues with Morris Day's cocaine habit during the filming of PR have been discussed on this thread.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Can you specify those individuals who worked/lived with him in the 80's and said he always had a drug problem and/or asked them to get a script from their Doctor? Every statement I have heard from girlfriends, associates, friends, etc who were with him in the 80's have stated there were no drugs and rarely alcohol.

Have you not listened to or read all of the documents?

I did read the documents - may have missed some of the statments - but what I remember reading were interviews done with the friends/associates in the last several years. I don't recall them going back to speak with people who were with him in the 1980's, as that would not really be relevant to his current situation, and would provide little evidence (ie: the Sinead O'Connor rant).

There is no evidence that he knew what was in those bottles. I never said there was. However, other than what he told associates whom he wasn't being exactly honest with at all times, there is no evidence that he DID NOT know. I am doing some speculation based on how things went down around that time. We can't know either way what he knew and didn't know with all certainty. But I BELIEVE he had to have known that what was in those bottles was not just vicodin or hydrocodone...he wasn't a total idiot. Did he honestly think mixing percocet with a milder drug like hydrocodone would cause him to need 2 narcan shots. The doctor was pretty clear with him in MOlene that there was no way he was taking something that mild. He may have denied it and wanted to blame the narcan but he had to have known. Keep this in mind, the blood test in Dr. Shulbarg's office was probably filled with percocet and milder drugs. The autopsy was filled with stronger stuff. I have a tough time believing that P would think that night that the type of pills he took in Molene which caused a severe overdose were actually milder than what he had been taking the last couple of days.

disch said:

Theres no evidence he knew that those counterfeit vicodins were something other than than the drug they visually mimicked. He knew he had a bad reaction on the plane but didn’t know exactly why, and refused the blood tests that would have shed light on what he ingested. Per his statements he might have thought the situation then was not as dire as it was, or he made the wrong assumption about the cause. — purplerabbithole said:

Okay, but don't forget that Dr. S's drug tests only showed opiods but not fentanyl. He didn't take fentanly again untl the night before his rehab (the night he died obviously) . I know he might have thought he would partake in the stronger stuff before he had to commit to rehab but still it is odd to me that he didn't have any of the stronger stuff in his system the day before. At the very least, he was very very careless the night before his rehab and after having a blood test that day. Its like he didn't want the fentanyl showing up on his blood test with Dr. S. Didnt he refuse blood tests in molene when there was most definitely fentanyl in his blood?

[Edited 6/17/18 12:10pm]

[Edited 6/17/18 12:56pm]

[Edited 6/17/18 13:12pm]

[Edited 6/17/18 13:26pm]

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

This is not accurate. Most Opioid addictions begin under a Dr's care. The issue with the drugs is that they have too strong of an addictive quality, and patients end up needing more and at stronger doses. Once the epidemic had been realized and became a focus for the media, Doctor's became restricted on how much they can prescribe per patient. Consequently, the black market Opioid demand took off, as addicted patients began looking for other ways to obtain the pills when their doctor(s) cut off their supply. This is resulting in more deaths, because people do not know how to control the dosage, and/or the counterfeit drugs are killing them based on how they are made.

I know. I lived it.

Well, then I would say you are probably one of the fewer lucky ones who avoided that "slippery slope", and I'm glad you made it through without a more serious issue.

Sheila said that P had people getting drugs for him in their name...presumably pain pills. She however did not specify what era or time period. She was around off and on for years. It could have been the 90's or 2011 when she left the camp due to suspecting that he was on something. Other than that and stuff said by Manuela, Mayte etc and Susan's account of a one-time estacy trip, there was no indication of anyone from the 80's admitting to drug usage on P's part. There are some 90's stories out there and the estacy story from the 80's, but no 80's associates (as far as I can tell) have admitted to seeing Prince partake in drugs in any habitual way.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

Have you not listened to or read all of the documents?

I did read the documents - may have missed some of the statments - but what I remember reading were interviews done with the friends/associates in the last several years. I don't recall them going back to speak with people who were with him in the 1980's, as that would not really be relevant to his current situation, and would provide little evidence (ie: the Sinead O'Connor rant).

[Edited 6/17/18 13:10pm]

[Edited 6/17/18 13:14pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Sheila said that P had people getting drugs for him in their name...presumably pain pills. She however did not specify what era or time period. She was around off and on for years. It could have been the 90's or 2011 when she left the camp due to suspecting that he was on something. Other than that and stuff said by Manuela, Mayte etc, there was no indication of anyone from the 80's admitting to drug usage on P's part.

violetcrush said:

I did read the documents - may have missed some of the statments - but what I remember reading were interviews done with the friends/associates in the last several years. I don't recall them going back to speak with people who were with him in the 1980's, as that would not really be relevant to his current situation, and would provide little evidence (ie: the Sinead O'Connor rant).

Yes, Sheila performed and worked with him many times beyond the 80's time frame. I have no doubt her comments were referring to later years. I would imagine she left in 2011 for the same reasons that another employee (can't remember her name) had stated she left. Also, I believe it was in 2011 when there was an anonymous call made to 911 regarding Prince's severe drug problem. No action was taken as there was no evidence at that time.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

Have you not listened to or read all of the documents?

I did read the documents - may have missed some of the statments - but what I remember reading were interviews done with the friends/associates in the last several years. I don't recall them going back to speak with people who were with him in the 1980's, as that would not really be relevant to his current situation, and would provide little evidence (ie: the Sinead O'Connor rant).

Have you listened to the interviews? Listen to Crystal's for starters.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

I did read the documents - may have missed some of the statments - but what I remember reading were interviews done with the friends/associates in the last several years. I don't recall them going back to speak with people who were with him in the 1980's, as that would not really be relevant to his current situation, and would provide little evidence (ie: the Sinead O'Connor rant).

Have you listened to the interviews? Listen to Crystal's for starters.

Who is Crystal???

Was Crystal not a recent employee? We were talking about the 80's.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

Have you listened to the interviews? Listen to Crystal's for starters.

Who is Crystal???

purplerabbithole said:

Was Crystal not a recent employee? We were talking about the 80's.

violetcrush said:

Who is Crystal???

Right. I dont' recall anyone named Crystal who worked or lived with him in the 80's, or even 90's.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

I know. I lived it.

Well, then I would say you are probably one of the fewer lucky ones who avoided that "slippery slope", and I'm glad you made it through without a more serious issue.

I guess if you'd read and participated in the previous death threads then you would know the story.

I'm gonna check out of this for a thread but wanna write something while I'm thinking about it that I think is really essential regarding Prince's stance on "drug use".

I don't think this can be emphasized enough either.

When something is legal, prescribed and in a pill form, the mindset about the substance being "dirty" or a something typical that we associate and abscribe to the negative stereotypical image and portray of "someone who uses drugs" is lessened VERY significantly.

I remember when I was a heavy pot smoker and an occasional user of psychadelics, catching a certin level of shit from my mom who was, and still is, a heavy HEAVY user of psychoactive drugs, anti anxiety meds, tranquilzers and anti-depressants. She naivley thought that those drugs are automatically less harmful or addictive since they carry a certain measure of credibility and legality by virute of being "prescribed", and certainly no cop was going to lock her up for 5-10 years for posession of enough Xanax or Valium to knock out a moose.

In the 80's, during the bullshit hysteria of Nancy Reagan's "just say no" propaganda campaign, there were hundreds of thousands of housewives popping "diet pills" that were nothing more than legally prescribed speed along with sedative anti anxiety meds that rendered them into zombies. But, somehow, those same pep pill popping mama's never looked in the mirror when their little Tony got caught with a dime bag of grass in his laundry. It's hypocricy of the highest order and endemic to the seemingly insurmountable, systematic "drug problem" America finds itself STILL facing 30 or 40 years later.

I say with great confidence that Prince was not a "drug user" in the traditional sense and fell victim to this same hypocritical view on the matter. "Druggies" live in smelly apratments that smell like bong water and incense, have mirrors with scratches on them, roaches in their ashtrays, excuse themselves constantly to visit the restroom, sniff a lot and leave dirty spoons lying around. Opening a bottle that carries the credibility of a doctor's signature, the ease of simply chasing a pill with water and the legal loophole that affords the user the plausible deniability of "posessing drugs" allows the them to convince themselves that "it's not really a DRUG" they're using.

It's MEDICINE. In Prince's case, it probably was and I feel certain that this is how he viewed it. As he got more addicted, he likely rationalized it while at the same time giving his entourage shit for smoking grass or cigarettes, drinking to excess or running off to the john to do a bump of the toilet seat. He was naive, I think. And this is nothing new either. Elvis (part of Nixon's anti drug task force for crying out loud), MJ, Anna Nicole Smith, Corey Haim, Heath Ledger, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, ...I could go ON AND ON...

People do this with alcohol to some extent too (rationalize it through its legality, not a prescription) and that's a highly dangerous and addictive drug that's advertised on TV for fuck's sake. Even still, ALCOHOL has more stigma than xanax, valium and MOST THINGS that come out of a bottle with a CVS label on them. I'm not saying that's WRONG. I think all drugs should be legal for the most part, in fact. I'm merely pointing out the hypocritical double standard that the DEA, the courts, the cops and the pharmaceutical industry perpetuate that lead to so much of the binary thinking on this matter; the "good people vs. bad people" thing. I see it in this thread.

This War On Drugs has been going on my entire life and we are losing badly. And, worse, STUPIDLY. Because we are fighting the wrong enemy; one built of strawmen along socio economic and racial battle lines. Our entire nation's attitude and approach to drug usage is arcane, draconian, punative, divisive, ignorant and stigmatic.

That shit with the doc's name on the bottle is more dangerous than what i twist up in a paper. But one makes me somehow unemployable.

fortuneandserendipity said:

pricetag said:

fortuneandserendipity said: You’re right. You should have explained yourself better.

What is your problem?

I do things out in the open. Not in a snivelling back-handed way.

The last 30-odd pages of this thread has been taken up by, like, three people. What a waste.

ladygirl99 said:

herb4 said:

It's more stigma everywhere. People don't understand the brain (or, for that matter, the spine, the CNS and the way nerves and pain work) but, as a sufferer of depression myself and as someone who knows several friends and family members who are afflicted, I see no reason to think Prince battled depression or bi-polar issues.

But you are not part of his social circle so you can't determine what Prince's inner struggles or did he ever saw treatment for any mental illness since he was so private as he even kept things from his closest.

And I am sorry about your depression but your story is your story.

Not saying I am, unlike a lot of others in this thread who post FB gossip and claim to have insider info and shit. Don't be sorry about my depression, thanks. Not seeking sympathy.

I think i've had to less to say about Prince's inner circle and former lovers than most people in this thread and cut them more slack than most. I'm not calling his ex wives names and suggesting his friends were assholes. I'm not calling out his family for What They Should Do regarding the estate.

Maybe he DID have depression of sorts. It'd make sense to some degree. But usually people with that problem go through LONG periods of laziness, detachment, lack of motivation and wallow in self pity. I didn't see that too much with Prince. Maybe the detachment. Sure, it's my story and it's anecdotal and all but I've seen the disease up close so I figured I'd offer up what I know about it.

What the fuck else am I supposed to post or share? I'm not a doctor.

pricetag said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

What is your problem?

I do things out in the open. Not in a snivelling back-handed way.

No you're a sociopath. It's obvious from your posts. You just sneer and misinterpret.

pricetag said:

The last 30-odd pages of this thread has been taken up by, like, three people. What a waste.

Well...YOU could post something.

Or just sit back and criticize the rest of the lurkers for not writing something that entertains you.

Just sayin. Go something to add?

[Edited 6/17/18 14:07pm]

herb4 said:

I'm gonna check out of this for a thread but wanna write something while I'm thinking about it that I think is really essential regarding Prince's stance on "drug use".

I don't think this can be emphasized enough either.

When something is legal, prescribed and in a pill form, the mindset about the substance being "dirty" or a something typical that we associate and abscribe to the negative stereotypical image and portray of "someone who uses drugs" is lessened VERY significantly.

I remember when I was a heavy pot smoker and an occasional user of psychadelics, catching a certin level of shit from my mom who was, and still is, a heavy HEAVY user of psychoactive drugs, anti anxiety meds, tranquilzers and anti-depressants. She naivley thought that those drugs are automatically less harmful or addictive since they carry a certain measure of credibility and legality by virute of being "prescribed", and certainly no cop was going to lock her up for 5-10 years for posession of enough Xanax or Valium to knock out a moose.

In the 80's, during the bullshit hysteria of Nancy Reagan's "just say no" propaganda campaign, there were hundreds of thousands of housewives popping "diet pills" that were nothing more than legally prescribed speed along with sedative anti anxiety meds that rendered them into zombies. But, somehow, those same pep pill popping mama's never looked in the mirror when their little Tony got caught with a dime bag of grass in his laundry. It's hypocricy of the highest order and endemic to the seemingly insurmountable, systematic "drug problem" America finds itself STILL facing 30 or 40 years later.

I say with great confidence that Prince was not a "drug user" in the traditional sense and fell victim to this same hypocritical view on the matter. "Druggies" live in smelly apratments that smell like bong water and incense, have mirrors with scratches on them, roaches in their ashtrays, excuse themselves constantly to visit the restroom, sniff a lot and leave dirty spoons lying around. Opening a bottle that carries the credibility of a doctor's signature, the ease of simply chasing a pill with water and the legal loophole that affords the user the plausible deniability of "posessing drugs" allows the them to convince themselves that "it's not really a DRUG" they're using.

It's MEDICINE. In Prince's case, it probably was and I feel certain that this is how he viewed it. As he got more addicted, he likely rationalized it while at the same time giving his entourage shit for smoking grass or cigarettes, drinking to excess or running off to the john to do a bump of the toilet seat. He was naive, I think. And this is nothing new either. Elvis (part of Nixon's anti drug task force for crying out loud), MJ, Anna Nicole Smith, Corey Haim, Heath Ledger, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, ...I could go ON AND ON...

People do this with alcohol to some extent too (rationalize it through its legality, not a prescription) and that's a highly dangerous and addictive drug that's advertised on TV for fuck's sake. Even still, ALCOHOL has more stigma than xanax, valium and MOST THINGS that come out of a bottle with a CVS label on them. I'm not saying that's WRONG. I think all drugs should be legal for the most part, in fact. I'm merely pointing out the hypocritical double standard that the DEA, the courts, the cops and the pharmaceutical industry perpetuate that lead to so much of the binary thinking on this matter; the "good people vs. bad people" thing. I see it in this thread.

This War On Drugs has been going on my entire life and we are losing badly. And, worse, STUPIDLY. Because we are fighting the wrong enemy; one built of strawmen along socio economic and racial battle lines. Our entire nation's attitude and approach to drug usage is arcane, draconian, punative, divisive, ignorant and stigmatic.

That shit with the doc's name on the bottle is more dangerous than what i twist up in a paper. But one makes me somehow unemployable.

WOW! what a briliant and heart-felt essay...thanks for sharing. U DA MAN!

pricetag said:

The last 30-odd pages of this thread has been taken up by, like, three people. What a waste.

Easier to criticize than to do. I understand.

Chime in.

You seem like a swell person. The sort that never cooks but criticizes the food.

[Edited 6/17/18 14:15pm]

herb4 said:

pricetag said:

The last 30-odd pages of this thread has been taken up by, like, three people. What a waste.

Well...YOU could post something.

Or just sit back and criticize the rest of the lurkers for not writing something that entertains you.

Just sayin. Go something to add?

[Edited 6/17/18 14:07pm]

Those who do not have something essential or worthwhile to add to the conversation usually find it necessary to criticize those who do.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Well, then I would say you are probably one of the fewer lucky ones who avoided that "slippery slope", and I'm glad you made it through without a more serious issue.

I guess if you'd read and participated in the previous death threads then you would know the story.

Sorry, but it is quite impossible to hit every thread on this site - it would require more than 24/7 of my time....

Got a question among the speculation of whether short term or long term drug use.....Does it matter how long he took drugs? Does it make it more acceptable if he had been using for decades? I guess I don't understand what difference it makes in the length of time he used. Unless Prince was sincere in wanting help (and according to KJ, Prince did want help in getting off the pain meds), his story was likely not going to have a happy ending. Even then, it was going to be a day at a time in recovery which can be a slippery slope. Being in recovery myself for a LONG time....I have seen people after surgery have pain meds prescribed and become addicted..it only took a couple of years for them to reach a bad bottom....they had given up their jobs, families, self-respect in order to keep using and in some cases switched drugs (heroin) since ithey was easier to get. Ive seen people with both short term and long term sobriety/clean time, leave a 12-step meeting, go home and load up a needle or a gun and wham that's it, it's over. Who knew? The behavior was there before the relapse...we just didnt see it. I've heard people say before their stint in rehab, theyhad one last big hurrah with their substance of choce. No one knows what was going through Prince's head except him and what happened on 4/20-21/16. Living or working with an addict (such as the associates) and being an addict are two different things; both are hell and it takes one to know one.

herb4 said:

I'm gonna check out of this for a thread but wanna write something while I'm thinking about it that I think is really essential regarding Prince's stance on "drug use".

I don't think this can be emphasized enough either.

When something is legal, prescribed and in a pill form, the mindset about the substance being "dirty" or a something typical that we associate and abscribe to the negative stereotypical image and portray of "someone who uses drugs" is lessened VERY significantly.

I remember when I was a heavy pot smoker and an occasional user of psychadelics, catching a certin level of shit from my mom who was, and still is, a heavy HEAVY user of psychoactive drugs, anti anxiety meds, tranquilzers and anti-depressants. She naivley thought that those drugs are automatically less harmful or addictive since they carry a certain measure of credibility and legality by virute of being "prescribed", and certainly no cop was going to lock her up for 5-10 years for posession of enough Xanax or Valium to knock out a moose.

In the 80's, during the bullshit hysteria of Nancy Reagan's "just say no" propaganda campaign, there were hundreds of thousands of housewives popping "diet pills" that were nothing more than legally prescribed speed along with sedative anti anxiety meds that rendered them into zombies. But, somehow, those same pep pill popping mama's never looked in the mirror when their little Tony got caught with a dime bag of grass in his laundry. It's hypocricy of the highest order and endemic to the seemingly insurmountable, systematic "drug problem" America finds itself STILL facing 30 or 40 years later.

I say with great confidence that Prince was not a "drug user" in the traditional sense and fell victim to this same hypocritical view on the matter. "Druggies" live in smelly apratments that smell like bong water and incense, have mirrors with scratches on them, roaches in their ashtrays, excuse themselves constantly to visit the restroom, sniff a lot and leave dirty spoons lying around. Opening a bottle that carries the credibility of a doctor's signature, the ease of simply chasing a pill with water and the legal loophole that affords the user the plausible deniability of "posessing drugs" allows the them to convince themselves that "it's not really a DRUG" they're using.

It's MEDICINE. In Prince's case, it probably was and I feel certain that this is how he viewed it. As he got more addicted, he likely rationalized it while at the same time giving his entourage shit for smoking grass or cigarettes, drinking to excess or running off to the john to do a bump of the toilet seat. He was naive, I think. And this is nothing new either. Elvis (part of Nixon's anti drug task force for crying out loud), MJ, Anna Nicole Smith, Corey Haim, Heath Ledger, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, ...I could go ON AND ON...

People do this with alcohol to some extent too (rationalize it through its legality, not a prescription) and that's a highly dangerous and addictive drug that's advertised on TV for fuck's sake. Even still, ALCOHOL has more stigma than xanax, valium and MOST THINGS that come out of a bottle with a CVS label on them. I'm not saying that's WRONG. I think all drugs should be legal for the most part, in fact. I'm merely pointing out the hypocritical double standard that the DEA, the courts, the cops and the pharmaceutical industry perpetuate that lead to so much of the binary thinking on this matter; the "good people vs. bad people" thing. I see it in this thread.

This War On Drugs has been going on my entire life and we are losing badly. And, worse, STUPIDLY. Because we are fighting the wrong enemy; one built of strawmen along socio economic and racial battle lines. Our entire nation's attitude and approach to drug usage is arcane, draconian, punative, divisive, ignorant and stigmatic.

That shit with the doc's name on the bottle is more dangerous than what i twist up in a paper. But one makes me somehow unemployable.

Wonderful insights, and I agree 100%

herb4 said:

I'm gonna check out of this for a thread but wanna write something while I'm thinking about it that I think is really essential regarding Prince's stance on "drug use".

I don't think this can be emphasized enough either.

When something is legal, prescribed and in a pill form, the mindset about the substance being "dirty" or a something typical that we associate and abscribe to the negative stereotypical image and portray of "someone who uses drugs" is lessened VERY significantly.

I remember when I was a heavy pot smoker and an occasional user of psychadelics, catching a certin level of shit from my mom who was, and still is, a heavy HEAVY user of psychoactive drugs, anti anxiety meds, tranquilzers and anti-depressants. She naivley thought that those drugs are automatically less harmful or addictive since they carry a certain measure of credibility and legality by virute of being "prescribed", and certainly no cop was going to lock her up for 5-10 years for posession of enough Xanax or Valium to knock out a moose.

In the 80's, during the bullshit hysteria of Nancy Reagan's "just say no" propaganda campaign, there were hundreds of thousands of housewives popping "diet pills" that were nothing more than legally prescribed speed along with sedative anti anxiety meds that rendered them into zombies. But, somehow, those same pep pill popping mama's never looked in the mirror when their little Tony got caught with a dime bag of grass in his laundry. It's hypocricy of the highest order and endemic to the seemingly insurmountable, systematic "drug problem" America finds itself STILL facing 30 or 40 years later.

I say with great confidence that Prince was not a "drug user" in the traditional sense and fell victim to this same hypocritical view on the matter. "Druggies" live in smelly apratments that smell like bong water and incense, have mirrors with scratches on them, roaches in their ashtrays, excuse themselves constantly to visit the restroom, sniff a lot and leave dirty spoons lying around. Opening a bottle that carries the credibility of a doctor's signature, the ease of simply chasing a pill with water and the legal loophole that affords the user the plausible deniability of "posessing drugs" allows the them to convince themselves that "it's not really a DRUG" they're using.

It's MEDICINE. In Prince's case, it probably was and I feel certain that this is how he viewed it. As he got more addicted, he likely rationalized it while at the same time giving his entourage shit for smoking grass or cigarettes, drinking to excess or running off to the john to do a bump of the toilet seat. He was naive, I think. And this is nothing new either. Elvis (part of Nixon's anti drug task force for crying out loud), MJ, Anna Nicole Smith, Corey Haim, Heath Ledger, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, ...I could go ON AND ON...

People do this with alcohol to some extent too (rationalize it through its legality, not a prescription) and that's a highly dangerous and addictive drug that's advertised on TV for fuck's sake. Even still, ALCOHOL has more stigma than xanax, valium and MOST THINGS that come out of a bottle with a CVS label on them. I'm not saying that's WRONG. I think all drugs should be legal for the most part, in fact. I'm merely pointing out the hypocritical double standard that the DEA, the courts, the cops and the pharmaceutical industry perpetuate that lead to so much of the binary thinking on this matter; the "good people vs. bad people" thing. I see it in this thread.

This War On Drugs has been going on my entire life and we are losing badly. And, worse, STUPIDLY. Because we are fighting the wrong enemy; one built of strawmen along socio economic and racial battle lines. Our entire nation's attitude and approach to drug usage is arcane, draconian, punative, divisive, ignorant and stigmatic.

That shit with the doc's name on the bottle is more dangerous than what i twist up in a paper. But one makes me somehow unemployable.

I agree with this post. I was just going to write a post about high functional drug users but you beat me to it. I hope people will read your post and tone down with the Prince wasn't really a drug addict because of his high energy performance. Heck I was too naive about Prince's drug problem too for months after he died before came terms to it.

Some fans also have a hard time accepting that Prince was high functional drug user and he was a pill man.

I think Prince did look down on people who used drugs that are still considered illegal from shade them in his songs to fine or fired them. He was a hypocrite himself but I also believed he wasn't that educated early on about the dangers of abusing medicine drugs and you right that isn't totally his fault. Society in the 1980s focused too much on War on Drugs dealing with cocaine and crack and less on the legals like diet pills and other drugs. But I don't mean to be harsh.

I read articles about people who are high functional drug users and they fit Prince to a T. People on these threads should research this topic too. That explained why some associates were caught off guard about how bad Prince's addiction was because as a high functional drug user he was able to hide it so well.

AA1slot said:

Got a question among the speculation of whether short term or long term drug use.....Does it matter how long he took drugs? Does it make it more acceptable if he had been using for decades? I guess I don't understand what difference it makes in the length of time he used. Unless Prince was sincere in wanting help (and according to KJ, Prince did want help in getting off the pain meds), his story was likely not going to have a happy ending. Even then, it was going to be a day at a time in recovery which can be a slippery slope. Being in recovery myself for a LONG time....I have seen people after surgery have pain meds prescribed and become addicted..it only took a couple of years for them to reach a bad bottom....they had given up their jobs, families, self-respect in order to keep using and in some cases switched drugs (heroin) since ithey was easier to get. Ive seen people with both short term and long term sobriety/clean time, leave a 12-step meeting, go home and load up a needle or a gun and wham that's it, it's over. Who knew? The behavior was there before the relapse...we just didnt see it. I've heard people say before their stint in rehab, theyhad one last big hurrah with their substance of choce. No one knows what was going through Prince's head except him and what happened on 4/20-21/16. Living or working with an addict (such as the associates) and being an addict are two different things; both are hell and it takes one to know one.

Agreed on all points. My only point about the short term vs. long term use on one of my prior comments was that it is unlikely that he had been using Opioids regularly for 20+ yrs, based upon the addictive nature of these drugs.

ladygirl99 said:

herb4 said:

I'm gonna check out of this for a thread but wanna write something while I'm thinking about it that I think is really essential regarding Prince's stance on "drug use".

I don't think this can be emphasized enough either.

When something is legal, prescribed and in a pill form, the mindset about the substance being "dirty" or a something typical that we associate and abscribe to the negative stereotypical image and portray of "someone who uses drugs" is lessened VERY significantly.

I remember when I was a heavy pot smoker and an occasional user of psychadelics, catching a certin level of shit from my mom who was, and still is, a heavy HEAVY user of psychoactive drugs, anti anxiety meds, tranquilzers and anti-depressants. She naivley thought that those drugs are automatically less harmful or addictive since they carry a certain measure of credibility and legality by virute of being "prescribed", and certainly no cop was going to lock her up for 5-10 years for posession of enough Xanax or Valium to knock out a moose.

In the 80's, during the bullshit hysteria of Nancy Reagan's "just say no" propaganda campaign, there were hundreds of thousands of housewives popping "diet pills" that were nothing more than legally prescribed speed along with sedative anti anxiety meds that rendered them into zombies. But, somehow, those same pep pill popping mama's never looked in the mirror when their little Tony got caught with a dime bag of grass in his laundry. It's hypocricy of the highest order and endemic to the seemingly insurmountable, systematic "drug problem" America finds itself STILL facing 30 or 40 years later.

I say with great confidence that Prince was not a "drug user" in the traditional sense and fell victim to this same hypocritical view on the matter. "Druggies" live in smelly apratments that smell like bong water and incense, have mirrors with scratches on them, roaches in their ashtrays, excuse themselves constantly to visit the restroom, sniff a lot and leave dirty spoons lying around. Opening a bottle that carries the credibility of a doctor's signature, the ease of simply chasing a pill with water and the legal loophole that affords the user the plausible deniability of "posessing drugs" allows the them to convince themselves that "it's not really a DRUG" they're using.

It's MEDICINE. In Prince's case, it probably was and I feel certain that this is how he viewed it. As he got more addicted, he likely rationalized it while at the same time giving his entourage shit for smoking grass or cigarettes, drinking to excess or running off to the john to do a bump of the toilet seat. He was naive, I think. And this is nothing new either. Elvis (part of Nixon's anti drug task force for crying out loud), MJ, Anna Nicole Smith, Corey Haim, Heath Ledger, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, ...I could go ON AND ON...

People do this with alcohol to some extent too (rationalize it through its legality, not a prescription) and that's a highly dangerous and addictive drug that's advertised on TV for fuck's sake. Even still, ALCOHOL has more stigma than xanax, valium and MOST THINGS that come out of a bottle with a CVS label on them. I'm not saying that's WRONG. I think all drugs should be legal for the most part, in fact. I'm merely pointing out the hypocritical double standard that the DEA, the courts, the cops and the pharmaceutical industry perpetuate that lead to so much of the binary thinking on this matter; the "good people vs. bad people" thing. I see it in this thread.

This War On Drugs has been going on my entire life and we are losing badly. And, worse, STUPIDLY. Because we are fighting the wrong enemy; one built of strawmen along socio economic and racial battle lines. Our entire nation's attitude and approach to drug usage is arcane, draconian, punative, divisive, ignorant and stigmatic.

That shit with the doc's name on the bottle is more dangerous than what i twist up in a paper. But one makes me somehow unemployable.

I agree with this post. I was just going to write a post about high functional drug users but you beat me to it. I hope people will read your post and tone down with the Prince wasn't really a drug addict because of his high energy performance. Heck I was too naive about Prince's drug problem too for months after he died before came terms to it.

Some fans also have a hard time accepting that Prince was high functional drug user and he was a pill man.

I think Prince did look down on people who used drugs that are still considered illegal from shade them in his songs to fine or fired them. He was a hypocrite himself but I also believed he wasn't that educated early on about the dangers of abusing medicine drugs and you right that isn't totally his fault. Society in the 1980s focused too much on War on Drugs dealing with cocaine and crack and less on the legals like diet pills and other drugs. But I don't mean to be harsh.

I read articles about people who are high functional drug users and they fit Prince to a T. People on these threads should research this topic too. That explained why some associates were caught off guard about how bad Prince's addiction was because as a high functional drug user he was able to hide it so well.

co-sign, great post, 'denial is the strongest human emotion.'

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

I guess if you'd read and participated in the previous death threads then you would know the story.

Sorry, but it is quite impossible to hit every thread on this site - it would require more than 24/7 of my time....

Well, you hop in late on a thread that has 10 parts and say the same things that we all have been saying all along, and act like you are the first to come up with it.

How can you keep commenting on a topic when you haven't heard all the interviews and it has 10 parts. Not only has it wasted your time it's wasted our time by trying to explain everything again.

violetcrush said:

AA1slot said:

Got a question among the speculation of whether short term or long term drug use.....Does it matter how long he took drugs? Does it make it more acceptable if he had been using for decades? I guess I don't understand what difference it makes in the length of time he used. Unless Prince was sincere in wanting help (and according to KJ, Prince did want help in getting off the pain meds), his story was likely not going to have a happy ending. Even then, it was going to be a day at a time in recovery which can be a slippery slope. Being in recovery myself for a LONG time....I have seen people after surgery have pain meds prescribed and become addicted..it only took a couple of years for them to reach a bad bottom....they had given up their jobs, families, self-respect in order to keep using and in some cases switched drugs (heroin) since ithey was easier to get. Ive seen people with both short term and long term sobriety/clean time, leave a 12-step meeting, go home and load up a needle or a gun and wham that's it, it's over. Who knew? The behavior was there before the relapse...we just didnt see it. I've heard people say before their stint in rehab, theyhad one last big hurrah with their substance of choce. No one knows what was going through Prince's head except him and what happened on 4/20-21/16. Living or working with an addict (such as the associates) and being an addict are two different things; both are hell and it takes one to know one.

Agreed on all points. My only point about the short term vs. long term use on one of my prior comments was that it is unlikely that he had been using Opioids regularly for 20+ yrs, based upon the addictive nature of these drugs.

Yep and I agreed with you.