violetcrush said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Not so different from the secrecy needed to conceal a drug habit then? If that's what happened. Longer time span, harder to pull off, but doable.

His associates may have been intelligent and not easily fooled but they weren't clairvoyant.

I think the difference is that, according to the investigative interviews, and other interviews done by the media, Prince's erratic behavior began around 2010-2011, and he was not concealing it very well from his inner circle (found wandering naked around PP in 2011) from that point forward. This is when I believe his dependence on the meds began. If he had a drug habit/addiction through the 80's and 90's I feel that it would have been revealed. Events/incidents always occur which unveil the curtain, so to speak.

I kind of agree with herb that it would be difficult to imagine P being on opiates 24/7 through 80s and 90s. As geniuses go, they're not particularly analytical, go more on instinct. So big part of me finds it hard believing P was always tapering on and off different substances to try and find a balance that worked, and maintaining that regime throughout the day.

However, that doesn't mean he wasn't using those substances to conquer stage fright, and just taking them occasionally. We know from Chris Moon, Owen Husney, Susan Rogers' accounts just how shy he was in the studio. Not such a stretch to think that extended to public stage. There are plenty of stories btw concerning erratic behaviour from him in the 80s/90s. Maybe the eccentric side to his genius, not necessarily substance use. Btw the naked episode in 2011 was a reaction to meds making him hot flush. Not uncommon for med users and probably menopausal women.

pricetag said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

You're slightly missing the point, so i should have explained better. Fritzl's wife had no idea what was going on in the basement, but they lived together. It went on for decades.

It's a lot easier for a rock star to keep up a manageable drug habit without anyone knowing.

You’re right. You should have explained yourself better.

What is your problem?

pricetag said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

You're slightly missing the point, so i should have explained better. Fritzl's wife had no idea what was going on in the basement, but they lived together. It went on for decades.

It's a lot easier for a rock star to keep up a manageable drug habit without anyone knowing.

You’re right. You should have explained yourself better.

In that case, I think one would have to really examine the intelligence/state of mind of the wife at that time, as the fact that this was happening on the lower floor of her own home leads me to believe something was very wrong with her. That is by no means a typical scenario....

I am inclined to think he knew about the rehab because he gave a blood test willingly at that doctor's office the day before. If he knew about the rehab, I think his death was intentional and he was just trying to get them to leave him alone that night by persuading them that he was taking his treatment seriously. If he didn't know about the rehab, I am inclined to beleive that P's death was completely an accident and a result of self denial

kmama07 said:

PennyPurple said:

I don't think he would've went either. He was too busy making sure everyone thought he was OK in that last week, by riding his bike, and throwing a party.

Me, either. I think he thought he could control things on his own.

kmama07 said:

PennyPurple said:

I don't think he would've went either. He was too busy making sure everyone thought he was OK in that last week, by riding his bike, and throwing a party.

Me, either. I think he thought he could control things on his own.

Oh, right - I wasn't thinking about the bike ride and the PP party. And then there was the "wait a few days before you waste any prayers", which can be taken two ways - either, that he knew his time was limited, or, that he really was in agreement to trying to get help.

violetcrush said:

I think the difference is that, according to the investigative interviews, and other interviews done by the media, Prince's erratic behavior began around 2010-2011, and he was not concealing it very well from his inner circle (found wandering naked around PP in 2011) from that point forward. This is when I believe his dependence on the meds began. If he had a drug habit/addiction through the 80's and 90's I feel that it would have been revealed. Events/incidents always occur which unveil the curtain, so to speak.

There were incidents. When he had to have his stomach pumped because he had too much 'aspirin' and wine. 2. Mayte's pain meds from having the baby would come up missing. 3. He asked Mayte to toss the drugs down a toilet for him.

Being completely naked in front of staff goes beyond just hot flashes and discomfort. That's a crazy moment to say the least. the wiring sounds a bit crossed. I know Prince could be pretty comfortable with his body during his early days but in 2009/2010, he generally kept his clothes on.

fortuneandserendipity said:

violetcrush said:

I think the difference is that, according to the investigative interviews, and other interviews done by the media, Prince's erratic behavior began around 2010-2011, and he was not concealing it very well from his inner circle (found wandering naked around PP in 2011) from that point forward. This is when I believe his dependence on the meds began. If he had a drug habit/addiction through the 80's and 90's I feel that it would have been revealed. Events/incidents always occur which unveil the curtain, so to speak.

I kind of agree with herb that it would be difficult to imagine P being on opiates 24/7 through 80s and 90s. As geniuses go, they're not particularly analytical, go more on instinct. So big part of me finds it hard believing P was always tapering on and off different substances to try and find a balance that worked, and maintaining that regime throughout the day.

However, that doesn't mean he wasn't using those substances to conquer stage fright, and just taking them occasionally. We know from Chris Moon, Owen Husney, Susan Rogers' accounts just how shy he was in the studio. Not such a stretch to think that extended to public stage. There are plenty of stories btw concerning erratic behaviour from him in the 80s/90s. Maybe the eccentric side to his genius, not necessarily substance use. Btw the naked episode in 2011 was a reaction to meds making him hot flush. Not uncommon for med users and probably menopausal women.

fortuneandserendipity said:

violetcrush said:

I think the difference is that, according to the investigative interviews, and other interviews done by the media, Prince's erratic behavior began around 2010-2011, and he was not concealing it very well from his inner circle (found wandering naked around PP in 2011) from that point forward. This is when I believe his dependence on the meds began. If he had a drug habit/addiction through the 80's and 90's I feel that it would have been revealed. Events/incidents always occur which unveil the curtain, so to speak.

I kind of agree with herb that it would be difficult to imagine P being on opiates 24/7 through 80s and 90s. As geniuses go, they're not particularly analytical, go more on instinct. So big part of me finds it hard believing P was always tapering on and off different substances to try and find a balance that worked, and maintaining that regime throughout the day.

However, that doesn't mean he wasn't using those substances to conquer stage fright, and just taking them occasionally. We know from Chris Moon, Owen Husney, Susan Rogers' accounts just how shy he was in the studio. Not such a stretch to think that extended to public stage. There are plenty of stories btw concerning erratic behaviour from him in the 80s/90s. Maybe the eccentric side to his genius, not necessarily substance use. Btw the naked episode in 2011 was a reaction to meds making him hot flush. Not uncommon for med users and probably menopausal women.

Yes, I know the "naked in PP" episode was a reaction to the meds, but he would never in a million years have walked around naked in front of employees/associates. The drugs clearly had an effect on his mind at that point too - maybe too much for him to handle.

*

I know in the beginning he was uncomfortable with singnig and projecting his voice, but not uncomfortable being on stage. I read when he first performed in High School he would just play his guitar but not sing. Chris Moon worked with him to help him with projecting his vocals. It's been said by most people, even Prince himself, that he felt most comfortable when performing on stage - he got a powerful high from it. It makes sense - he's way above the audience - taller than everyone watching him, and they're all cheering and clapping for him. He loved that adoration. I think the harder part was having to "come down" from that natural high after the concert. I think that ties in with starting to do the after shows in the late 80's. He wanted to continue that "high".

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

I think the difference is that, according to the investigative interviews, and other interviews done by the media, Prince's erratic behavior began around 2010-2011, and he was not concealing it very well from his inner circle (found wandering naked around PP in 2011) from that point forward. This is when I believe his dependence on the meds began. If he had a drug habit/addiction through the 80's and 90's I feel that it would have been revealed. Events/incidents always occur which unveil the curtain, so to speak.

There were incidents. When he had to have his stomach pumped because he had too much 'aspirin' and wine. 2. Mayte's pain meds from having the baby would come up missing. 3. He asked Mayte to toss the drugs down a toilet for him.

Yes, I mentioned those events in a prior post with regard to Prince turning to pills to deal with emotional pain throughout the years, but not being a regular user.

Those aren’t the only 2 explanations for that “save your prayers” statement. He might also have meant that the media gets things wrong/exaggerates so in a couple days you’ll see things are fine and not as big a deal as they appeared. In other words, just trying to downplay the reports about the plane incident, something he would’ve preferred the public not know about.

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

I am inclined to think he knew about the rehab because he gave a blood test willingly at that doctor's office the day before. If he knew about the rehab, I think his death was intentional and he was just trying to get them to leave him alone that night by persuading them that he was taking his treatment seriously. If he didn't know about the rehab, I am inclined to beleive that P's death was completely an accident and a result of self denial

kmama07 said:

PennyPurple said: Me, either. I think he thought he could control things on his own.

Yes, but whether he had agreed to the rehab the day before or not, he still needed the meds to avoid withdrawal symptoms. He would not have been able to stop the meds until the Dr's Son arrived with his medication (fouind in his bag) which helps with the withdrawal. I don't think he intentionally took his life. I think the situation that happened on the plane from Atlanta is the same situation that happened at PP on 4/21. The only difference is that there was no one present to get him the emergency narcan shot.

herb4 said:

PeteSilas said:

religion is a drug too, as marx said "the opiate of the masses", it's just another drug... This society of ours though is fucked, it's all built on manipulation and exploitation and that's not something done without some kind of force.

That force would be "advertising and marketing"

sure that's a huge part of it. market something to people make them want it then exploit them with the control you have over them.

disch said:

Those aren’t the only 2 explanations for that “save your prayers” statement. He might also have meant that the media gets things wrong/exaggerates so in a couple days you’ll see things are fine and not as big a deal as they appeared. In other words, just trying to downplay the reports about the plane incident, something he would’ve preferred the public not know about. violetcrush said:

Oh, right - I wasn't thinking about the bike ride and the PP party. And then there was the "wait a few days before you waste any prayers", which can be taken two ways - either, that he knew his time was limited, or, that he really was in agreement to trying to get help.

Agreed - third option, deflect the media reports to remain private.....

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

Okay, why the mind games then? If we know he was definitely doing mind games, do we know why? No, because we don't know what was in his head anymore than W and L do. In fact, I read their accounts of this incident as well as the Tavis Smiley thing, they didn't call it a mind game. they didn't know what it was.

"Mind Game" is just a loose term that can mean many things. His behaviors left them confused and not understanding where he stood with them at any given time. That is a type of mind game toward them. Typical behavior involves communicating directly with someone to tell them how you are feeling about them and any issues you have with them. Prince ddn't do this - he acted out steps 1-4 above....

wendy called one of the 00's summonings a "mind fuck" so yes they knew what was happening, i think she said it was like "psyche!" too, sounds like Prince. Yet and still, W&L were genuinely devestated along with the rest of us when he died.

From my personal experience (sober six years now), I wanted very few people to know I was going to rehab. The night before I went I got bombed out of my mind. I got so bombed I was still drunk when I got to rehab (not one of my finer moments). My point is, even if he had consented to rehab, it is extremely typical for people to "go out with a bang one last time". Some people make it and some people accidentally go too far and never make it. Just a thought.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

"Mind Game" is just a loose term that can mean many things. His behaviors left them confused and not understanding where he stood with them at any given time. That is a type of mind game toward them. Typical behavior involves communicating directly with someone to tell them how you are feeling about them and any issues you have with them. Prince ddn't do this - he acted out steps 1-4 above....

wendy called one of the 00's summonings a "mind fuck" so yes they knew what was happening, i think she said it was like "psyche!" too, sounds like Prince. Yet and still, W&L were genuinely devestated along with the rest of us when he died.

Oh, of course they were devastated. They loved him, and he loved them - "mind games" or not. Wendy and Lisa were smart enough to learn and understand his issues and behaviors. No doubt it was frustrating for them, but they understood. I wrote about the "psyche!" incident in a prior post. That was the Brit awards where he invited them to play, but did not speak to them.

kmama07 said:

From my personal experience (sober six years now), I wanted very few people to know I was going to rehab. The night before I went I got bombed out of my mind. I got so bombed I was still drunk when I got to rehab (not one of my finer moments). My point is, even if he had consented to rehab, it is extremely typical for people to "go out with a bang one last time". Some people make it and some people accidentally go too far and never make it. Just a thought.

Congrats on your sobriety. I think, once addicted to those pain meds, the withdrawal symptoms are so bad that it becomes impossible to refrain from taking them without the proper meds to control thos symptoms, and the need for stronger dose inevitably causes the overdose.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

There were incidents. When he had to have his stomach pumped because he had too much 'aspirin' and wine. 2. Mayte's pain meds from having the baby would come up missing. 3. He asked Mayte to toss the drugs down a toilet for him.

Yes, I mentioned those events in a prior post with regard to Prince turning to pills to deal with emotional pain throughout the years, but not being a regular user.

And it's been mentioned numerous times before you.

violetcrush said:

Yes, I know the "naked in PP" episode was a reaction to the meds, but he would never in a million years have walked around naked in front of employees/associates. The drugs clearly had an effect on his mind at that point too - maybe too much for him to handle.

*

I know in the beginning he was uncomfortable with singnig and projecting his voice, but not uncomfortable being on stage. I read when he first performed in High School he would just play his guitar but not sing. Chris Moon worked with him to help him with projecting his vocals. It's been said by most people, even Prince himself, that he felt most comfortable when performing on stage - he got a powerful high from it. It makes sense - he's way above the audience - taller than everyone watching him, and they're all cheering and clapping for him. He loved that adoration. I think the harder part was having to "come down" from that natural high after the concert. I think that ties in with starting to do the after shows in the late 80's. He wanted to continue that "high".

I don't see from the quote below any explicit mention of a 'psychotic break' or 'employees/associates' stood around. It's all interpretation. I'm sure he wasn't running laps around the block, naked. Then again some fans would probably pay to see that. The fact is that was the only incident mentioned, and to me it points towards two conflicting medications taken at the same time. But maybe it was an allergic reaction.

Richard Lee Peloquin, a groundskeeper at Prince's Paisley Park recording studios in Chanhassen, where Prince's body was found, told investigators that Prince was prescribed Percocet after the hip replacement surgery but he had a reaction and was running around Paisley Park naked, complaining he was hot.

And yes he seemed very comfortable on stage. But we don't know if he was sober and unmedicated. How can we be sure? The Dr D guy said lots of performers are taking stuff to cope with the anxiety.

ladygirl99 said:

Lovejunky said:

Your talking about stuff that happened over 30 years ago

He probably did a lot of stuff then that he no longer did as he matured.

What does it matter ?

Prince was entitled to live his life the way he wanted to

and at the end of the day he

ACHIEVED MORE than any of us here.

That he died from an accidental opiate overdose, is directly related to how much he

was willing to endure in order to keep on giving.

From heresay and conjecture You are all trying to project a charicature

that resembles some drug up effed up self serving selfish wanna be

"Rock Star"

Says a lot about you.

I wasnt shocked by his opiate addiction.

I knew straight away that he had to have been in a LOT of pain

and my heart broke .

He never complained, he just carried on, supporting people

mentoring people

creating ,making people laugh

connecting with God as he gave his heart and Soul

right up until his very last Atlanta show....

Thats the Prince I see..

The grown mature and evolved 57 years of being.

He may have been named Prince at Birth

but he became one at the end

Due to the Noble way he behaved..

He wasnt stuck in the past.

Why are you ?

That is not the point. The point is that people need to be more objective when it comes to celebrities. There is a reason why fan short for fanatic and even Prince hated the word fan. Even Prince told people to worship higher power not him as he might had hinted people shouldn't worship him due to his flaws he had. Prince wasn't a bad person for hiding his drug abuse from a lot of people and I will never going to change how I feel about him. I will take Jill and Wendy's word over fans who had their fantasies of what they want PRince to be rather than what he was.

And what are you talking about dude of being stuck in the past? According to your logic we should just stop talking about anything that regards to Prince from this day forward because you know Prince is now the past no longer present physically. And why are you on this thread if you don't like people discussing Prince as a human since this is a non-music thread?

The irony, Ladygirl, is (and I'm just as guilty too) that this site, and especially this type of thread, are exactly the reason Prince came to the "fan means fanatic" mind set. But really, he was a bit hypocritical in that thinking, because we all know he loved the adoration and attention of his fans/friends - as long as it was only positive praise. He did not want his flaws discussed or criticized. He did not even like any negative critique of his music. The "fanatic" idea came from the story he has told about the woman who sat on the lawn at PP everyday for a long period, and I think also a girl who would write him letters telling him he's her "soul mate".

*

I don't think anyone is stating that Prince was "super human", and most on here recognize he had many issues just like everyone else. However, what put him above most were his musical talent, intense work ethic, and drive to continue his intense performing.

I always thought Lisa was one of those that got Prince the most without expressing I mean just they clicked in a cosmo way. She accepted him the way he was and didn't try to come in and change his personality or anything and she seemed accommodating and she seemed non-judgemental even though I am sure Prince can frustrate her at times. Not trying to put any blame because we need more compassion with battle drug abuse and mental illness. I wish that he would kept in touch with her more as I thought he might stay away from her because of his up and down issues with Sue and Wendy, and Lisa is very tight with the Melvoin twins to this day so if Prince seeked Lisa for advice then you best believe she wasn't going to shut out the info from the twins and Prince might not want them to know about his issues as someone mentioned here Susannah was frustrated that Prince kept a lot from her when she was around. But I am just theorizing here since I know my place of being an outsider of this.

Susannah said on Toure Lisa would have been the one to get him to rehab. From looking at social media and interviews, Wendy and Susannah both can too assertive for Prince and Lisa was more laid back and chilling and level-headed. Lisa seemed like the type that I can pour my problems too and she would listened and be non-judgemental, and even Susannah. Wendy is cool but she has that strong male energy and sometimes it can be too much even for me.

Lisa understood Prince because they both kind of quiet natured and talked riddles at times. But Lisa couldn't help him if he pushed her away. She said in interviews she would helped if she knew the backstory as she got rumors too about his drug abuse.

Jill Jones would be another person too but then again she is very assertive and that could turn Prince off who respond well to feminine energy. Sheila E got that male energy too and Prince might had close out on her as well.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, I mentioned those events in a prior post with regard to Prince turning to pills to deal with emotional pain throughout the years, but not being a regular user.

And it's been mentioned numerous times before you.

No doubt, but my point was that I had posted those incidents a few pages up on this thread....

kmama07 said:

From my personal experience (sober six years now), I wanted very few people to know I was going to rehab. The night before I went I got bombed out of my mind. I got so bombed I was still drunk when I got to rehab (not one of my finer moments). My point is, even if he had consented to rehab, it is extremely typical for people to "go out with a bang one last time". Some people make it and some people accidentally go too far and never make it. Just a thought.

people have said that about Prince, that he wanted to go out with a bang. some others here don't even know for sure if he even knew about the rehab people coming. It's just hard to believe someone as bright as Prince would be so deep in denial that he couldn't see how close to death he came, turns around and takes the same shit that did it to him but yes, that is a possibility.

violetcrush said:

ladygirl99 said:

That is not the point. The point is that people need to be more objective when it comes to celebrities. There is a reason why fan short for fanatic and even Prince hated the word fan. Even Prince told people to worship higher power not him as he might had hinted people shouldn't worship him due to his flaws he had. Prince wasn't a bad person for hiding his drug abuse from a lot of people and I will never going to change how I feel about him. I will take Jill and Wendy's word over fans who had their fantasies of what they want PRince to be rather than what he was.

And what are you talking about dude of being stuck in the past? According to your logic we should just stop talking about anything that regards to Prince from this day forward because you know Prince is now the past no longer present physically. And why are you on this thread if you don't like people discussing Prince as a human since this is a non-music thread?

The irony, Ladygirl, is (and I'm just as guilty too) that this site, and especially this type of thread, are exactly the reason Prince came to the "fan means fanatic" mind set. But really, he was a bit hypocritical in that thinking, because we all know he loved the adoration and attention of his fans/friends - as long as it was only positive praise. He did not want his flaws discussed or criticized. He did not even like any negative critique of his music. The "fanatic" idea came from the story he has told about the woman who sat on the lawn at PP everyday for a long period, and I think also a girl who would write him letters telling him he's her "soul mate".

*

I don't think anyone is stating that Prince was "super human", and most on here recognize he had many issues just like everyone else. However, what put him above most were his musical talent, intense work ethic, and drive to continue his intense performing.

I aware of that people know he was not superhuman but Prince was trying to be one and in result got him into drugs to maintain that energy per Bobby Z and his associates. He couldn't pulled that status on his associates and exes as they saw his flaws and in some interviews, some even wonder why was he acting that way? Just focus on the music and its okay to show some entertainment but chill on being supernatural. That was why he refused to show weakness too because that would remind him of his humanity.

Yeah Prince didn't like the negativity of his music but what I like about him is his I don't give a fuck attitude. He was going to do what he wanted to do most times. But occasionally, he did listen to the fans like when fans wanted him to play certain songs, he ended up playing the songs the next show or so.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

And it's been mentioned numerous times before you.

No doubt, but my point was that I had posted those incidents a few pages up on this thread....

And my point was, it's been posted before you did.

And this is what you just said several posts back.....It has been revealed. This drug use just didn't start in 2010-11. He has been dabbeling for many, many years. Look in the documents where some have said that he used to have people go get them for him, from their very own Drs.

violetcrush said:

I think the difference is that, according to the investigative interviews, and other interviews done by the media, Prince's erratic behavior began around 2010-2011, and he was not concealing it very well from his inner circle (found wandering naked around PP in 2011) from that point forward. This is when I believe his dependence on the meds began. If he had a drug habit/addiction through the 80's and 90's I feel that it would have been revealed. Events/incidents always occur which unveil the curtain, so to speak.

ladygirl99 said:

I always thought Lisa was one of those that got Prince the most without expressing I mean just they clicked in a cosmo way. She accepted him the way he was and didn't try to come in and change his personality or anything and she seemed accommodating and she seemed non-judgemental even though I am sure Prince can frustrate her at times. Not trying to put any blame because we need more compassion with battle drug abuse and mental illness. I wish that he would kept in touch with her more as I thought he might stay away from her because of his up and down issues with Sue and Wendy, and Lisa is very tight with the Melvoin twins to this day so if Prince seeked Lisa for advice then you best believe she wasn't going to shut out the info from the twins and Prince might not want them to know about his issues as someone mentioned here Susannah was frustrated that Prince kept a lot from her when she was around. But I am just theorizing here since I know my place of being an outsider of this.

Susannah said on Toure Lisa would have been the one to get him to rehab. From looking at social media and interviews, Wendy and Susannah both can too assertive for Prince and Lisa was more laid back and chilling and level-headed. Lisa seemed like the type that I can pour my problems too and she would listened and be non-judgemental, and even Susannah. Wendy is cool but she has that strong male energy and sometimes it can be too much even for me.

Lisa understood Prince because they both kind of quiet natured and talked riddles at times. But Lisa couldn't help him if he pushed her away. She said in interviews she would helped if she knew the backstory as she got rumors too about his drug abuse.

Jill Jones would be another person too but then again she is very assertive and that could turn Prince off who respond well to feminine energy. Sheila E got that male energy too and Prince might had close out on her as well.

Agreed. Lisa and Prince seemed to have an unspoken connection. I think her quiet and "ethereal" quality appealed to him and balanced well with his personality. I think Wendy challenged him a quite a bit - in terms of verbal sparring and quick wit. They definitely had that "brother" vibe. Susannah had too much of an emotional/physical history with him. I don't think he would have wanted to appear vulnerable to her at that time (even though I'm sure she already knew his vulnerabilities). I think she knew a lot about him, and he most likely shared personal things with her too back in the day. But many years had passed.

*

Not sure if Lisa could have ultimately gotten him to rehab though. I think that requires a "tough love" situation - someone who would be comfortable in that type of role. Not sure if a gentle approach would have worked. Who knows...hard to say.

PeteSilas said:

kmama07 said:

From my personal experience (sober six years now), I wanted very few people to know I was going to rehab. The night before I went I got bombed out of my mind. I got so bombed I was still drunk when I got to rehab (not one of my finer moments). My point is, even if he had consented to rehab, it is extremely typical for people to "go out with a bang one last time". Some people make it and some people accidentally go too far and never make it. Just a thought.

people have said that about Prince, that he wanted to go out with a bang. some others here don't even know for sure if he even knew about the rehab people coming. It's just hard to believe someone as bright as Prince would be so deep in denial that he couldn't see how close to death he came, turns around and takes the same shit that did it to him but yes, that is a possibility.

I agree. Prince always been meticulously so it was odd he wasn't like, Whoa I got to get my situation under control and make sure it won't happen again' after Moline incident.

Another thing someone on here said he was in the hospital around both times in 2010 and 2014 and I think 2015 and the public didn't knew. So if he gone to rehab, I am sure his privacy would have been protected.

So yup there is indeed more to this...

well, here is why I went that way. The Aleve bottle had the hard shit in it, and it was same bottle he took from when he overdosed earlier that week. the bayer bottle apparenlty had lidocaine and there was of course the 15 percocet that Dr. S. subscribed and other milder drugs laying about (as well as the withdrawal meds that he stated weren't working but Kirk was afraid to just leave them with Prince) . He waits until he has convinced everyone he is getting help, making it easier to force them to leave him alone, and then takes from the bottle of hard shit. Now, investigators might think that he was just too stubborn to realize what was in those bottles and the high was better with that stuff. But these investigators also can't figure where he got the drugs. My contention is that P knew there was some kind of fentanyl cocktail in there and asked for the percocet on the 15th to lessen the impact of the pills...was mixing to avoid overdoing it. When he overdosed, he tried to blame everything but what was in those bottles until he couldn't anymore. I think he started to wonder about hte potency in the pills from that Aleve bottle that night in Molene but then when the hospital pharmacist didn't provide answers (because like an idiot, he merely looked at the engraving), Prince didn't bother figuring it out. I think he might have known someone who had a home lab or something (thus why it can't be traced.) I believe those around P in this camp weren't enabling as much as people think which is why P went another route to get stronger stuff. That week before his death, I think Prince started to realize that his problem could not be hidden anymore and that he would have totally change his life to get better. He might have had a terrible private epiphany on the night of the 20th or 19th that drove him to say "fuck It'...I am done. Judith called him 50/50 suicidal. Makes sense that earlier that week he wanted to live and by the end of the week, he didn't want to anymore. Also, I want to point that when Dr. S. tested his blood on teh 20th, Prince didnt have fentanyl in his system but did have opiods. But he died with strong amounts of fentanly and probably took it more than once that night due to it being still in his stomach but also in his liver.

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

I am inclined to think he knew about the rehab because he gave a blood test willingly at that doctor's office the day before. If he knew about the rehab, I think his death was intentional and he was just trying to get them to leave him alone that night by persuading them that he was taking his treatment seriously. If he didn't know about the rehab, I am inclined to beleive that P's death was completely an accident and a result of self denial

Yes, but whether he had agreed to the rehab the day before or not, he still needed the meds to avoid withdrawal symptoms. He would not have been able to stop the meds until the Dr's Son arrived with his medication (fouind in his bag) which helps with the withdrawal. I don't think he intentionally took his life. I think the situation that happened on the plane from Atlanta is the same situation that happened at PP on 4/21. The only difference is that there was no one present to get him the emergency narcan shot.

[Edited 6/17/18 12:03pm]

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

And my point was, it's been posted before you did.

And this is what you just said several posts back.....It has been revealed. This drug use just didn't start in 2010-11. He has been dabbeling for many, many years. Look in the documents where some have said that he used to have people go get them for him, from their very own Drs.

violetcrush said:

I think the difference is that, according to the investigative interviews, and other interviews done by the media, Prince's erratic behavior began around 2010-2011, and he was not concealing it very well from his inner circle (found wandering naked around PP in 2011) from that point forward. This is when I believe his dependence on the meds began. If he had a drug habit/addiction through the 80's and 90's I feel that it would have been revealed. Events/incidents always occur which unveil the curtain, so to speak.

**My point was that in the past he was not addicted, and more than likely was not taking Opioids. He most likely became addicted to Opioids after the hip surgery.

violetcrush said:

ladygirl99 said:

I always thought Lisa was one of those that got Prince the most without expressing I mean just they clicked in a cosmo way. She accepted him the way he was and didn't try to come in and change his personality or anything and she seemed accommodating and she seemed non-judgemental even though I am sure Prince can frustrate her at times. Not trying to put any blame because we need more compassion with battle drug abuse and mental illness. I wish that he would kept in touch with her more as I thought he might stay away from her because of his up and down issues with Sue and Wendy, and Lisa is very tight with the Melvoin twins to this day so if Prince seeked Lisa for advice then you best believe she wasn't going to shut out the info from the twins and Prince might not want them to know about his issues as someone mentioned here Susannah was frustrated that Prince kept a lot from her when she was around. But I am just theorizing here since I know my place of being an outsider of this.

Susannah said on Toure Lisa would have been the one to get him to rehab. From looking at social media and interviews, Wendy and Susannah both can too assertive for Prince and Lisa was more laid back and chilling and level-headed. Lisa seemed like the type that I can pour my problems too and she would listened and be non-judgemental, and even Susannah. Wendy is cool but she has that strong male energy and sometimes it can be too much even for me.

Lisa understood Prince because they both kind of quiet natured and talked riddles at times. But Lisa couldn't help him if he pushed her away. She said in interviews she would helped if she knew the backstory as she got rumors too about his drug abuse.

Jill Jones would be another person too but then again she is very assertive and that could turn Prince off who respond well to feminine energy. Sheila E got that male energy too and Prince might had close out on her as well.

Agreed. Lisa and Prince seemed to have an unspoken connection. I think her quiet and "ethereal" quality appealed to him and balanced well with his personality. I think Wendy challenged him a quite a bit - in terms of verbal sparring and quick wit. They definitely had that "brother" vibe. Susannah had too much of an emotional/physical history with him. I don't think he would have wanted to appear vulnerable to her at that time (even though I'm sure she already knew his vulnerabilities). I think she knew a lot about him, and he most likely shared personal things with her too back in the day. But many years had passed.

*

Not sure if Lisa could have ultimately gotten him to rehab though. I think that requires a "tough love" situation - someone who would be comfortable in that type of role. Not sure if a gentle approach would have worked. Who knows...hard to say.

Right.