URL: http://prince.org/msg/7/454437

Date printed: Sat 23rd Jun 2018 12:22pm PDT

independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Sat 23rd Jun 2018 12:22pm
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Prince's death Investigation Discussion - Continued - Part 10
AuthorMessage
Thread started 05/08/18 9:55am

luv4u

Moderator

moderator

Prince's death Investigation Discussion - Continued - Part 10

Other thread has gotten wayy too long. The discussion will continue here.



Do not derail the thread, stick to the topic. TROLLING will be dealt with harshly.


Be civil. All rules apply.

Thanks.


Carver County Sheriff's Office link: https://www.co.carver.mn....estigation


WARNING: Do NOT post the death picture of Prince (blurred or not), show respect. Those that do will be dealt with harshly.


Press Conference video:
http://video.startribune....480279253/

Edmonton, AB - canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
Reply #1 posted 05/08/18 10:17am

littlemissG

Is there anything else to say?
Unless some documents, video or a confession happens, there will be no change.
It’s fair to assume anything incriminating would have been found by now. Anyone benefiting from contributing to P’s death is going to remain silent except for maybe a deathbed confession. Rest In Peace Prince.
No More Haters on the Internet.
Reply #2 posted 05/08/18 10:26am

Strawberrylova123

Michael Dean/princepodcast will be interviewing chazz Smith tomorrow
Reply #3 posted 05/08/18 11:35am

cloveringold85

MMJ posted this in Part 9. Thanks for posting this, MMJ, and I think there is another storm yet to come! I don't think we will ever see the end of this. neutral

.

MMJas said:

Just came across this, this morning.

https://www.thepetitionsite.com/421/017/009/prince-homicide-grand-jury-investigation-demanded/

"The red flags that we noted include:

1.Failure to take control of and secure Paisley Park until all evidence gathering had been completed – this gave sufficient time for the crime scene to be tampered with, staged (pills and money spread in various locations in Paisley Park), and documents and other evidence destroyed and removed from Paisley Park by parties who sought to cover up;

2.Failure to remove and control all computers and laptops that Prince actively used. Investigators did not remove a laptop that they saw in Prince's bedroom until five days after Prince's death. Again, this gave ample time for email correspondence and files to be deleted by parties who sought to cover up;

3.Failure to take fingerprints of Prince and fingerprints on pills, money and other items at Paisley Park, and investigators touching evidence without wearing gloves;

4.Failure to probe discrepancies in statements provided by witnesses who were present when Prince passed out on the plane from the Atlanta concert, and deferential treatment, including leading and suggesting answers to a witness;

5.Failure to probe an Associate's disclosure that he removed prescribed medication that Prince said was not working for him but could not recall what he did with the medication;

6.Failure to examine the background of various parties that are relevant to the investigation. For example, the drug use history and drugs held by all relevant parties should have been probed;

7.Failure to determine if there had been malfeasance and fraud going on regarding Paisley Park and Prince's assets that may have motivated any party to cause him harm – the spread of cash around Paisley Park, and an employee carrying significant cash belonging to Paisley Park in her handbag suggests laxity in internal controls that could facilitate malfeasance;

8.Failure to examine legal agreements, past and ongoing lawsuits, domestic and international business arrangements, and financial records for evidence of any party that may have been motivated to cause Prince harm. For instance, Prince had a very well documented contentious relationship with a music industry firm. He had engaged in a protracted legal battle and regained control of the master recording copyright of his music in April 2014. This caused considerable anxiety for the executives of the music industry firm.

9.Failure to investigate a CNN report on the morning of April 21, 2016, that gunshots were heard at Paisley Park and believed to involve a Paisley Park employee. All information of this report was deleted from the internet.

10.Failure to follow-up on leads provided by relatives, close friends, and former managers and staff of Paisley Park who reached out to investigators.

11.Failure to properly gather all evidence relevant to the investigation before cremation of the decedent. Prince was cremated 29 hours after he was found dead. According to the FAQ section on the cremationsocietyofmn.com website, "the county Medical Examiner typically takes 2-3 business days to approve cremation…. The only delay would be if a Medical Examiner deemed it necessary to investigate the death or question the cause of death."

12.Failure to establish without a shadow of doubt that Prince himself administered the fatal dose of fentanyl that killed him. Despite an ongoing investigation, the Carver County Medical Examiner deemed Prince's cause of death as "decedent self-administered fentanyl overdose".

What do you guys make of this?

Absolutely SHOCKED..

NO FINGERPRINTS WHAT ???????

The rest of it we have all questioned ourselves at one time or another since the beginning of this Thread Part 1...

But isnt it too late now ?

Evidence has been tampered with..

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #4 posted 05/08/18 11:44am

cloveringold85

UPDATE: This quote is taken from the petition, for those who can't read! rolleyes

.

https://www.thepetitionsi...-demanded/


.

I totally agree with this!!

.

It is believed he could have been dead for more than six hours prior to his discovery, therefore, considering that fentanyl has a half-life of 6-24 hours and continues to metabolize after death, could the level of fentanyl in Prince's body have been more astronomical at time of death than the high level found at autopsy 30 hours later?

.

This would suggest that the potential cause of death should be "homicide by fentanyl toxicity"! The Medical Examiner's report that the decedent self-administered a fatal fentanyl dose as cause of death while there was an active investigation by the Sheriff's Office and DEA is questionable and not considered "standard protocol".

.

The reported high level of fentanyl toxicity that apparently killed Prince also raises questions about why the Sherriff's officers, emergency services staff, and Paisley Park employees were able to handle Prince's body without protective Haz-Mat wear.

.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

.

eek eek

[Edited 5/8/18 17:18pm]

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #5 posted 05/08/18 12:21pm

disch

We've discussed the whole hazmat urban myth many times.

-

Short answer: Fentanyl, like all opioids, doesn't absorb through the skin (unless special absorption agents are added, as they are with the prescription patches, and even then absorption is very gradual).

-

Handling fentanyl pills (or touching someone who ODed) with bare hands is not a risk. Here's a good explanation of it from a Stanford anesthesiologist:

http://reason.com/blog/20...nt-kill-yo

"No, fentanyl is not dangerous to touch. Transdermal fentanyl patches deliver fentanyl across the skin, but they require special absorption enhancers because the skin is an excellent barrier to fentanyl (and all other opioids). However, it is readily absorbed through mucus membranes, so snorted, rubbed in the mouth, or swallowed are all effective ways of administering fentanyl."

cloveringold85 said:

I totally agree with this!!

.

It is believed he could have been dead for more than six hours prior to his discovery, therefore, considering that fentanyl has a half-life of 6-24 hours and continues to metabolize after death, could the level of fentanyl in Prince's body have been more astronomical at time of death than the high level found at autopsy 30 hours later?

.

This would suggest that the potential cause of death should be "homicide by fentanyl toxicity"! The Medical Examiner's report that the decedent self-administered a fatal fentanyl dose as cause of death while there was an active investigation by the Sheriff's Office and DEA is questionable and not considered "standard protocol".

.

The reported high level of fentanyl toxicity that apparently killed Prince also raises questions about why the Sherriff's officers, emergency services staff, and Paisley Park employees were able to handle Prince's body without protective Haz-Mat wear.

.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

.

eek eek

[Edited 5/8/18 12:21pm]

Reply #6 posted 05/08/18 12:26pm

MMJas

Ok. I don't get why I was told to post that online petition here. I already did. The new thread was for highlighting that petition and making it easier for everyone to read and, if so inclined, sign the petition. But whatever.

Reply #7 posted 05/08/18 1:07pm

Bodhitheblackdog

MMJas said:

Ok. I don't get why I was told to post that online petition here. I already did. The new thread was for highlighting that petition and making it easier for everyone to read and, if so inclined, sign the petition. But whatever.

kk

Reply #8 posted 05/08/18 2:07pm

disch

But is it the job of investigators to provide "irrefutable evidence" or prove things "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? I think they're tasked with finding enough evidence to allow the DA to pursue charges against a specific person(s). They didn't have enough evidence for that, per the DA.

-

cloveringold85 said:

.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

.

eek eek

Reply #9 posted 05/08/18 2:16pm

Bodhitheblackdog

disch said:

But is it the job of investigators to provide "irrefutable evidence" or prove things "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? I think they're tasked with finding enough evidence to allow the DA to pursue charges against a specific person(s). They didn't have enough evidence for that, per the DA.

-

cloveringold85 said:

.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

.

eek eek

are you suggesting that parties unknown held Prince down and threw the pills down his throat and forced him to swallow them? did I miss reading about the bruises or other trauma on his body indicating he fought with his murderers? did his clothes get turned inside out during that struggle? including his socks? wow, he really fought for his life!

Reply #10 posted 05/08/18 2:47pm

disch

haha not sure if you're directing that at me, but I'm certainly not suggesting that! No, I think he swallowed the pills on his own volition, with no one forcing him to, not knowing they contained the fatal fentanyl dose.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

disch said:

But is it the job of investigators to provide "irrefutable evidence" or prove things "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? I think they're tasked with finding enough evidence to allow the DA to pursue charges against a specific person(s). They didn't have enough evidence for that, per the DA.

-

are you suggesting that parties unknown held Prince down and threw the pills down his throat and forced him to swallow them? did I miss reading about the bruises or other trauma on his body indicating he fought with his murderers? did his clothes get turned inside out during that struggle? including his socks? wow, he really fought for his life!

Reply #11 posted 05/08/18 3:19pm

cloveringold85

disch said:

We've discussed the whole hazmat urban myth many times.

-

Short answer: Fentanyl, like all opioids, doesn't absorb through the skin (unless special absorption agents are added, as they are with the prescription patches, and even then absorption is very gradual).

-

Handling fentanyl pills (or touching someone who ODed) with bare hands is not a risk. Here's a good explanation of it from a Stanford anesthesiologist:

http://reason.com/blog/20...nt-kill-yo

"No, fentanyl is not dangerous to touch. Transdermal fentanyl patches deliver fentanyl across the skin, but they require special absorption enhancers because the skin is an excellent barrier to fentanyl (and all other opioids). However, it is readily absorbed through mucus membranes, so snorted, rubbed in the mouth, or swallowed are all effective ways of administering fentanyl."

cloveringold85 said:

I totally agree with this!!

.

It is believed he could have been dead for more than six hours prior to his discovery, therefore, considering that fentanyl has a half-life of 6-24 hours and continues to metabolize after death, could the level of fentanyl in Prince's body have been more astronomical at time of death than the high level found at autopsy 30 hours later?

.

This would suggest that the potential cause of death should be "homicide by fentanyl toxicity"! The Medical Examiner's report that the decedent self-administered a fatal fentanyl dose as cause of death while there was an active investigation by the Sheriff's Office and DEA is questionable and not considered "standard protocol".

.

The reported high level of fentanyl toxicity that apparently killed Prince also raises questions about why the Sherriff's officers, emergency services staff, and Paisley Park employees were able to handle Prince's body without protective Haz-Mat wear.

.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

.

eek eek

[Edited 5/8/18 12:21pm]

.

Okay then, thanks! wink

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #12 posted 05/08/18 3:20pm

cloveringold85

MMJas said:

Ok. I don't get why I was told to post that online petition here. I already did. The new thread was for highlighting that petition and making it easier for everyone to read and, if so inclined, sign the petition. But whatever.

.

MMJ: I'm sorry, I saw you posted it in the last thread (#9), but it got too long and was locked, so I thought I would post it here, in case some did not see it and perhaps wanted to discuss further. confused neutral

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #13 posted 05/08/18 3:22pm

cloveringold85

littlemissG said:

Is there anything else to say? Unless some documents, video or a confession happens, there will be no change. It’s fair to assume anything incriminating would have been found by now. Anyone benefiting from contributing to P’s death is going to remain silent except for maybe a deathbed confession. Rest In Peace Prince.

.

The authorities stated the investigation is closed, unless new information develops.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #14 posted 05/08/18 3:23pm

cloveringold85

disch said:

But is it the job of investigators to provide "irrefutable evidence" or prove things "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? I think they're tasked with finding enough evidence to allow the DA to pursue charges against a specific person(s). They didn't have enough evidence for that, per the DA.

-

cloveringold85 said:

.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

.

eek eek

.

Those aren't my words -- it's from the petition.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #15 posted 05/08/18 4:33pm

Bodhitheblackdog

Bodhitheblackdog said:

disch said:

But is it the job of investigators to provide "irrefutable evidence" or prove things "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? I think they're tasked with finding enough evidence to allow the DA to pursue charges against a specific person(s). They didn't have enough evidence for that, per the DA.

-

are you suggesting that parties unknown held Prince down and threw the pills down his throat and forced him to swallow them? did I miss reading about the bruises or other trauma on his body indicating he fought with his murderers? did his clothes get turned inside out during that struggle? including his socks? wow, he really fought for his life!

No disch...this question was directed at Cloverandgold85 who specifically lamented that the police had not proven that Prince took the fatal dose himself...you can't make this c--- up.

cloveringold85 said:

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

.

[Edited 5/8/18 16:35pm]

[Edited 5/8/18 16:35pm]

Reply #16 posted 05/08/18 5:21pm

cloveringold85

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

are you suggesting that parties unknown held Prince down and threw the pills down his throat and forced him to swallow them? did I miss reading about the bruises or other trauma on his body indicating he fought with his murderers? did his clothes get turned inside out during that struggle? including his socks? wow, he really fought for his life!

No disch...this question was directed at Cloverandgold85 who specifically lamented that the police had not proven that Prince took the fatal dose himself...you can't make this c--- up.

cloveringold85 said:

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

.

[Edited 5/8/18 16:35pm]

[Edited 5/8/18 16:35pm]

.

Do you need prescription glasses? I said....That quote was taken from the petition (MMJ posted), and I said they weren't MY words! Capisce??

.

You obviously did not bother to read the previous comment I made to Disch. Why are you trying to stir the pot?? eek confused

.

rolleyes rolleyes

.

[Edited 5/8/18 17:55pm]

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #17 posted 05/08/18 6:29pm

precioux

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



disch said:


But is it the job of investigators to provide "irrefutable evidence" or prove things "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? I think they're tasked with finding enough evidence to allow the DA to pursue charges against a specific person(s). They didn't have enough evidence for that, per the DA. 


-



cloveringold85 said:


 


.


The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death.  The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.


 


.


eek eek



 



are you suggesting that parties unknown held Prince down and threw the pills down his throat and forced him to swallow them?  did I miss reading about the bruises or other trauma on his body indicating he fought with his murderers? did his clothes get turned inside out during that struggle? including his socks? wow, he really fought for his life!





Prince took the pill himself, as explained in JH’s transcript (zip 5 at bottom) same pills in the Bayer bottle on the plane is what was at PP. they were even identified through the “visual testing” done at the hospital in moline. he even argued that “mixing the 2” is what caused him to “fall asleep “. This transcript goes into a lot more detail. I said from the beginning that he took the illicit pills on the plane. He said his soul left him, and had revealed what happened, but the detective shut JH down when he asked JH “anything else Prince said? And you don’t have to go into the spiritual stuff and what not”. Sounds like he had an NDE and I personally would’ve wanted ESPECIALLY to hear of the spiritual things he experienced.
Reply #18 posted 05/08/18 6:54pm

Strawberrylova123

precioux said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



disch said:


But is it the job of investigators to provide "irrefutable evidence" or prove things "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? I think they're tasked with finding enough evidence to allow the DA to pursue charges against a specific person(s). They didn't have enough evidence for that, per the DA. 


-



cloveringold85 said:


 


.


The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death.  The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.


 


.


eek eek



 



are you suggesting that parties unknown held Prince down and threw the pills down his throat and forced him to swallow them?  did I miss reading about the bruises or other trauma on his body indicating he fought with his murderers? did his clothes get turned inside out during that struggle? including his socks? wow, he really fought for his life!





Prince took the pill himself, as explained in JH’s transcript (zip 5 at bottom) same pills in the Bayer bottle on the plane is what was at PP. they were even identified through the “visual testing” done at the hospital in moline. he even argued that “mixing the 2” is what caused him to “fall asleep “. This transcript goes into a lot more detail. I said from the beginning that he took the illicit pills on the plane. He said his soul left him, and had revealed what happened, but the detective shut JH down when he asked JH “anything else Prince said? And you don’t have to go into the spiritual stuff and what not”. Sounds like he had an NDE and I personally would’ve wanted ESPECIALLY to hear of the spiritual things he experienced.

But he wasn't clinically dead, you only have a near death experience if your heart stops and breathing stops
Reply #19 posted 05/08/18 7:03pm

laytonian

disch said:

But is it the job of investigators to provide "irrefutable evidence" or prove things "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? I think they're tasked with finding enough evidence to allow the DA to pursue charges against a specific person(s). They didn't have enough evidence for that, per the DA.

-

cloveringold85 said:

.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

.

eek eek

Exactly. This petition is embarrassing and worthless.
.
The ONLY person who could be convicted of murder would be the producer of the fake pills, and that's undetermined. The people who worked for Prince, who maybe abetted his search for drugs, are NOT guilty of anything but misdemeanors.
The stupidity about handling his body because of the fentanyl has been refuted. Did the petitioner even bother to look things up (rhetorical).

.

People: IF new information surfaces that implicates anyone, the case will be reopened. "DEMANDING" is just silly because there's no further information right now.

There is no statute of limitations on death investigations.

.

It's likely he took fentanyl before the Moline incident, didn't realize WHY he'd almost died. It got out of his system, he took some of the regular prescription drugs (which were found in his urine), and then reached for that "wrong bottle" because it was probably handy.

Just a fucking, sad, useless mess.

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
Reply #20 posted 05/08/18 7:22pm

laytonian

9. Failure to investigate a CNN report on the morning of April 21, 2016, that gunshots were heard at Paisley Park and believed to involve a Paisley Park employee. All information of this report was deleted from the internet.


BS. CNN transcripts do not disappear from the internet. There's another idiotic petition online claiming that the report of shots was by Wolf Blitzer (a petition so stupid that no one else will sign it!)
So I went looking for CNN's 4/21/16 transcripts of the Wolf Blitzer coverage and guess what! There IS a mention of a "shot".

http://transcripts.cnn.co...om.02.html

I hate to disappoint the armchair detectives but it's actually about things being shot at Paisley Park.

Like videos. Like movies.

.

So there you go.



Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
Reply #21 posted 05/08/18 7:22pm

precioux

Strawberrylova123 said:

precioux said:





Prince took the pill himself, as explained in JH’s transcript (zip 5 at bottom) same pills in the Bayer bottle on the plane is what was at PP. they were even identified through the “visual testing” done at the hospital in moline. he even argued that “mixing the 2” is what caused him to “fall asleep “. This transcript goes into a lot more detail. I said from the beginning that he took the illicit pills on the plane. He said his soul left him, and had revealed what happened, but the detective shut JH down when he asked JH “anything else Prince said? And you don’t have to go into the spiritual stuff and what not”. Sounds like he had an NDE and I personally would’ve wanted ESPECIALLY to hear of the spiritual things he experienced.

But he wasn't clinically dead, you only have a near death experience if your heart stops and breathing stops



I’m just repeating what Prince said. The ambulance also supposedly stopped to be able to “take a picture of his heart” because the ride was too rough. JH was so worried because he looked “dead” ..she said he did not “faint”. I was also wondering what she meant when she stated they “hit him” the first time. It almost sounded like she was referring to using the paddles, but then she said he came around after hitting him a second time, so I’m sure she was talking about the Narcan. That transcript is more in depth and really showed how much denial he was in. It astounded me.

Not to get totally off track, but people have reported leaving their bodies when they were not clinically dead. One example is that little boy who the movie “Heaven is real” was made after. He was seriously ill and his heart never stopped beating. I have to make sure that’s the name of the movie..
[Edited 5/8/18 19:37pm]
Reply #22 posted 05/08/18 8:04pm

Strawberrylova123

precioux said:

Strawberrylova123 said:


But he wasn't clinically dead, you only have a near death experience if your heart stops and breathing stops



I’m just repeating what Prince said. The ambulance also supposedly stopped to be able to “take a picture of his heart” because the ride was too rough. JH was so worried because he looked “dead” ..she said he did not “faint”. I was also wondering what she meant when she stated they “hit him” the first time. It almost sounded like she was referring to using the paddles, but then she said he came around after hitting him a second time, so I’m sure she was talking about the Narcan. That transcript is more in depth and really showed how much denial he was in. It astounded me.

Not to get totally off track, but people have reported leaving their bodies when they were not clinically dead. One example is that little boy who the movie “Heaven is real” was made after. He was seriously ill and his heart never stopped beating. I have to make sure that’s the name of the movie..
[Edited 5/8/18 19:37pm]

I dont work as a emt but how does a person take picture of someone's heart???
Reply #23 posted 05/08/18 9:16pm

80tomato

they probably had him hooked up to a heart monitor and the picture is what they see on the monitor

Reply #24 posted 05/08/18 10:43pm

pinkeekeen

delete
[Edited 5/8/18 22:51pm]
Reply #25 posted 05/08/18 11:16pm

bibrose

PRINCE HOMICIDE: Grand Jury investigation DEMANDED

  • by: EMandisa S
  • target: Local and Federal Law Enforcement
871 SUPPORTERS
1,500 GOAL

Mark Metz, County Attorney
Carver County Attorney's Office
604 East Fourth Street
Chaska MN 55318

Dear Mark Metz,


We the undersigned and the signatories to this Petition are writing to respectfully petition that a Grand Jury investigation be undertaken to uncover the complete truth about the death of Prince Rogers Nelson (aka "Prince") whose sad and untimely demise occurred on April 21, 2016.

The Grand Jury investigation will enable relevant parties to be subpoenaed and cross-examined under oath by experienced prosecutors.


On April 19, 2018, we heard the Carver County Attorney, Mark Metz, announce at the press conference held at the Carver County Justice Center the closure of the investigation and that no charges would be filed in relation to the death of Prince.

We noted that Dr. Schulenberg has agreed to pay $30,000 in a civil settlement with the U.S. Attorney's Office for violation of the Controlled Substances Act due to his prescription of a controlled medication under Kirk Johnson's name for Prince.

We also noted that Andrew Kornfeld, was not castigated for violating the Controlled Substances Act. Although he is not a medical doctor, he carried, interstate from California to Minnesota, a controlled substance that he was not authorized to handle or administer and then sought to protect himself by using the "Good Samaritan" law to call 911.

We have reviewed the investigation documents released by Carver County and identified several red flags in the investigation documents and photos taken at Paisley Park. We believe that the investigation was not properly handled.

The red flags indicate that the complexity of the case was beyond the capacity and expertise of the Carver County investigators. The red flags also indicate that the investigation was severely compromised; therefore, Prince has unfairly been denied justice.

The red flags that we noted include:

1.Failure to take control of and secure Paisley Park until all evidence gathering had been completed – this gave sufficient time for the crime scene to be tampered with, staged (pills and money spread in various locations in Paisley Park), and documents and other evidence destroyed and removed from Paisley Park by parties who sought to cover up;

2.Failure to remove and control all computers and laptops that Prince actively used. Investigators did not remove a laptop that they saw in Prince's bedroom until five days after Prince's death. Again, this gave ample time for email correspondence and files to be deleted by parties who sought to cover up;

3.Failure to take fingerprints of Prince and fingerprints on pills, money and other items at Paisley Park, and investigators touching evidence without wearing gloves;

4.Failure to probe discrepancies in statements provided by witnesses who were present when Prince passed out on the plane from the Atlanta concert, and deferential treatment, including leading and suggesting answers to a witness;

5.Failure to probe an Associate's disclosure that he removed prescribed medication that Prince said was not working for him but could not recall what he did with the medication;

6.Failure to examine the background of various parties that are relevant to the investigation. For example, the drug use history and drugs held by all relevant parties should have been probed;

7.Failure to determine if there had been malfeasance and fraud going on regarding Paisley Park and Prince's assets that may have motivated any party to cause him harm – the spread of cash around Paisley Park, and an employee carrying significant cash belonging to Paisley Park in her handbag suggests laxity in internal controls that could facilitate malfeasance;

8.Failure to examine legal agreements, past and ongoing lawsuits, domestic and international business arrangements, and financial records for evidence of any party that may have been motivated to cause Prince harm. For instance, Prince had a very well documented contentious relationship with a music industry firm. He had engaged in a protracted legal battle and regained control of the master recording copyright of his music in April 2014. This caused considerable anxiety for the executives of the music industry firm.

9.Failure to investigate a CNN report on the morning of April 21, 2016, that gunshots were heard at Paisley Park and believed to involve a Paisley Park employee. All information of this report was deleted from the internet.

10.Failure to follow-up on leads provided by relatives, close friends, and former managers and staff of Paisley Park who reached out to investigators.

11.Failure to properly gather all evidence relevant to the investigation before cremation of the decedent. Prince was cremated 29 hours after he was found dead. According to the FAQ section on the cremationsocietyofmn.com website, "the county Medical Examiner typically takes 2-3 business days to approve cremation…. The only delay would be if a Medical Examiner deemed it necessary to investigate the death or question the cause of death."

12.Failure to establish without a shadow of doubt that Prince himself administered the fatal dose of fentanyl that killed him. Despite an ongoing investigation, the Carver County Medical Examiner deemed Prince's cause of death as "decedent self-administered fentanyl overdose".

The Medical Examiner, in this case, is considered a "fentanyl expert" with multiple articles on fentanyl appearing in JAMA. A simple hair follicle test would have established if Prince was a long-term fentanyl user and provided a timeline of fentanyl use going back three months, if such use had occurred. This is a fact one would assume "a fentanyl expert" would know and consider administering during an autopsy.

The Medical Examiner reported that the Fentanyl level in Prince's blood was 67.8 mcg, which is almost 17 times the normal level of 3 to 5 mcg for cancer patients! This high level was discovered during an autopsy examination which occurred 24 hours after Prince was found.

It is believed he could have been dead for more than six hours prior to his discovery, therefore, considering that fentanyl has a half-life of 6-24 hours and continues to metabolize after death, could the level of fentanyl in Prince's body have been more astronomical at time of death than the high level found at autopsy 30 hours later? This would suggest that the potential cause of death should be "homicide by fentanyl toxicity"! The Medical Examiner's report that the decedent self-administered a fatal fentanyl dose as cause of death while there was an active investigation by the Sheriff's Office and DEA is questionable and not considered "standard protocol".

The reported high level of fentanyl toxicity that apparently killed Prince also raises questions about why the Sherriff's officers, emergency services staff, and Paisley Park employees were able to handle Prince's body without protective Haz-Mat wear.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

There is ample evidence to support the fact that Prince had several plans which do not support the narrative that he may have taken his own life. Prince was working with a new band with young musicians on a new album; he released a new album and a song from an upcoming new album; started writing his memoirs for a book which the publisher will release later this year; ordered several new shoes for his Summer tour; received a brand new piano from Yamaha, and a new custom guitar; asked the Musical Director who did orchestral compositions for his albums to block time on his calendar in the Summer so they could work on a new Minneapolis sound following the release of his song "Baltimore"; renovated the Sound Stage at Paisley Park to host his solo 'Piano And A Microphone' concert and planned concerts for various artists; was mentoring several young musicians; and reached out to several previous colleagues.

We humbly request that the Carver County Prosecutor convene a Grand Jury, as soon as possible, to properly investigate Prince's death. All Prince's associates, employees, managers, tour managers, bodyguards, attorneys, relatives, ex-wives, girlfriends, proteges, musicians, close friends, business associates, vendors he collaborated with, and executives of music industry firms that Prince had contractual relationships with should be subpoenaed to testify under oath so that the true circumstances surrounding the untimely and unfortunate death of Prince can be determined without a shadow of doubt!

Anything less is unacceptable!
Otherwise, we are left with a very painful reminder that the State, City and community that Prince so loved abysmally failed to properly investigate his unfortunate passing and grant him the justice he so deserved. Thanks in advance for your kind cooperation and prompt attention to this matter!


Signed by the following who represent various "Truth and Justice for Prince" groups:


E. Mandisa Subira
Audrey Quaye
Francine Amato
Gloria Rott
Laura Veney

Tammy Lenon Young

Dorothy Anthony


Cc:
Sheriff Jim Olson
Carver County Sheriff's Office

Denny Laufenburger, Mayor
City of Chanhassen

Governor Mark Dayton
Office of Governor
State of Minnesota

Attorney General Lori Swanson
Office of the Attorney General
State of Minnesota

U.S. Attorney Gregory G. Brooker
The United States Attorney's Office
District of Minnesota

Brian K. McKnightSpecial Agent in Charge
US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)
Minneapolis District Office

more

https://www.thepetitionsi...-demanded/

“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.” – Albert Einstein
Reply #26 posted 05/09/18 3:46am

kmama07

precioux said:

Strawberrylova123 said:


But he wasn't clinically dead, you only have a near death experience if your heart stops and breathing stops



I’m just repeating what Prince said. The ambulance also supposedly stopped to be able to “take a picture of his heart” because the ride was too rough. JH was so worried because he looked “dead” ..she said he did not “faint”. I was also wondering what she meant when she stated they “hit him” the first time. It almost sounded like she was referring to using the paddles, but then she said he came around after hitting him a second time, so I’m sure she was talking about the Narcan. That transcript is more in depth and really showed how much denial he was in. It astounded me.

Not to get totally off track, but people have reported leaving their bodies when they were not clinically dead. One example is that little boy who the movie “Heaven is real” was made after. He was seriously ill and his heart never stopped beating. I have to make sure that’s the name of the movie..
[Edited 5/8/18 19:37pm]

Yes. The name of the Movie is "Heaven is For Real"

Also, you hit the nail on the head: "That trNscript is more in depth and REALLY SHOWED HOW MUCH DENIAL HE WAS IN..."
Reply #27 posted 05/09/18 3:52am

MMJas

cloveringold85 said:

MMJas said:

Ok. I don't get why I was told to post that online petition here. I already did. The new thread was for highlighting that petition and making it easier for everyone to read and, if so inclined, sign the petition. But whatever.

.

MMJ: I'm sorry, I saw you posted it in the last thread (#9), but it got too long and was locked, so I thought I would post it here, in case some did not see it and perhaps wanted to discuss further. confused neutral

No worries, I was talking about the mods closing the thread I created for the petition. Nevermind, it is not important.

Reply #28 posted 05/09/18 4:32am

PennyPurple

This thread should be a stickey!

Reply #29 posted 05/09/18 5:38am

littlemissG

I agree this should be investigated but no took Prince fingerprints or secured Paisley Park. It is saddenly too late unless the investigators get really really lucky and find enough to get a warrant on ???
No More Haters on the Internet.
Reply #30 posted 05/09/18 5:41am

littlemissG

If the crime was for his fortune, an audit of all his holdings and deals up to his death is the beat bet. But I believe the estate would have to pay for it.
The best idea is follow the money.
No More Haters on the Internet.
Reply #31 posted 05/09/18 7:56am

Bodhitheblackdog

yes yes Penny is 100% right...petition should be a stickey!

[Edited 5/9/18 8:24am]

Reply #32 posted 05/09/18 8:01am

disch

What "crime" are you talking about? An assassination plot by someone to get at his money?

-

littlemissG said:

If the crime was for his fortune, an audit of all his holdings and deals up to his death is the beat bet. But I believe the estate would have to pay for it. The best idea is follow the money.

Reply #33 posted 05/09/18 8:18am

Mumio

Expect to see people pushing the murder aspect now. There's a campaign going on and donations to be had supporting it lol

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
Reply #34 posted 05/09/18 8:23am

Bodhitheblackdog

PennyPurple said:

This thread should be a stickey!

yes

Reply #35 posted 05/09/18 9:07am

1Sasha

There are groups already out there in social media pushing the murder aspect. Really, who would benefit from that? Look at what is going on now with the estate. It's a mess, and whether it was suicide, accidental or murder, the same results would be seen.

Reply #36 posted 05/09/18 9:32am

disch

exactly. If this was a murder plot, the plotters would have to have been clever enough to outsmart 2 years of investigation by local and federal agencies, but dumb enough to think this was a logical way to get their hands on Prince's millions.

1Sasha said:

There are groups already out there in social media pushing the murder aspect. Really, who would benefit from that? Look at what is going on now with the estate. It's a mess, and whether it was suicide, accidental or murder, the same results would be seen.

Reply #37 posted 05/09/18 9:37am

1Sasha

Exactly!

Reply #38 posted 05/09/18 9:44am

PurpleDiamonds1

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



disch said:


But is it the job of investigators to provide "irrefutable evidence" or prove things "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? I think they're tasked with finding enough evidence to allow the DA to pursue charges against a specific person(s). They didn't have enough evidence for that, per the DA. 


-



cloveringold85 said:


 


.


The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death.  The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.


 


.


eek eek



 



are you suggesting that parties unknown held Prince down and threw the pills down his throat and forced him to swallow them?  did I miss reading about the bruises or other trauma on his body indicating he fought with his murderers? did his clothes get turned inside out during that struggle? including his socks? wow, he really fought for his life!


Prince had NO idea he was about to take those fentanyl laced pills....still IMO someone went out of their way to make the pills look like meds he was taking and has gotten away with it so far....
Reply #39 posted 05/09/18 9:46am

PurpleDiamonds1

laytonian said:

 



disch said:


But is it the job of investigators to provide "irrefutable evidence" or prove things "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? I think they're tasked with finding enough evidence to allow the DA to pursue charges against a specific person(s). They didn't have enough evidence for that, per the DA. 


-



cloveringold85 said:


 


.


The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death.  The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.


 


.


eek eek



 



 


Exactly.  This petition is embarrassing and worthless.
.
The ONLY person who could be convicted of murder would be the producer of the fake pills, and that's undetermined.   The people who worked for Prince, who maybe abetted his search for drugs, are NOT guilty of anything but misdemeanors.
The stupidity about handling his body because of the fentanyl has been refuted.  Did the petitioner even bother to look things up (rhetorical).


.


People:   IF new information surfaces that implicates anyone, the case will be reopened.  "DEMANDING" is just silly because there's no further information right now.  


There is no statute of limitations on death investigations.


.


It's likely he took fentanyl before the Moline incident, didn't realize WHY he'd almost died.  It got out of his system, he took some of the regular prescription drugs (which were found in his urine), and then reached for that "wrong bottle" because it was probably handy.


Just a fucking, sad, useless mess. 


The person that deliberately put the fake laced pills so P would take them should be charged as well as who the got them from
Reply #40 posted 05/09/18 9:48am

PurpleDiamonds1

littlemissG said:

I agree this should be investigated but no took Prince fingerprints or secured Paisley Park. It is saddenly too late unless the investigators get really really lucky and find enough to get a warrant on ???

I agree...
Reply #41 posted 05/09/18 9:52am

PurpleDiamonds1

disch said:

exactly. If this was a murder plot, the plotters would have to have been clever enough to outsmart 2 years of investigation by local and federal agencies, but dumb enough to think this was a logical way to get their hands on Prince's millions. 



1Sasha said:


There are groups already out there in social media pushing the murder aspect.  Really, who would benefit from that?  Look at what is going on now with the estate.  It's a mess, and whether it was suicide, accidental or murder, the same results would be seen. 



 


Well the plotters fooled Prince...so yes they are criminal enough to have gotten away so far and look at the botched investigation...not ALL the evidence was collected and who knows what was discarded
Reply #42 posted 05/09/18 9:55am

PennyPurple

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

are you suggesting that parties unknown held Prince down and threw the pills down his throat and forced him to swallow them? did I miss reading about the bruises or other trauma on his body indicating he fought with his murderers? did his clothes get turned inside out during that struggle? including his socks? wow, he really fought for his life!

Prince had NO idea he was about to take those fentanyl laced pills....still IMO someone went out of their way to make the pills look like meds he was taking and has gotten away with it so far....

? Street drugs are made to look like the real deal. That's the problem with buying off the street, you don't know if it's the real thing or poison being cut into them.

Reply #43 posted 05/09/18 9:57am

littlemissG

disch said:

What "crime" are you talking about? An assassination plot by someone to get at his money? 


-


 



littlemissG said:


If the crime was for his fortune, an audit of all his holdings and deals up to his death is the beat bet. But I believe the estate would have to pay for it. The best idea is follow the money.

 


If there were one. It shady that documents were shredded the day after he passed.
What was there to hide?
No More Haters on the Internet.
Reply #44 posted 05/09/18 9:58am

MMJas

Bodhitheblackdog said:

yes yes Penny is 100% right...petition should be a stickey!

[Edited 5/9/18 8:24am]

Wel, I created a seperate thread for it, so that people could sign the petition if they were so inclined, and that thread was closed and then I was redirected to this one. Go figure...

Reply #45 posted 05/09/18 10:35am

1Sasha

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

disch said:

exactly. If this was a murder plot, the plotters would have to have been clever enough to outsmart 2 years of investigation by local and federal agencies, but dumb enough to think this was a logical way to get their hands on Prince's millions.

Well the plotters fooled Prince...so yes they are criminal enough to have gotten away so far and look at the botched investigation...not ALL the evidence was collected and who knows what was discarded

I agree with you on the investigation. "Botched" is putting it mildly. I am stunned by what didn't happen.

Reply #46 posted 05/09/18 10:40am

disch

i disgree that there's ANY evidence that there were people in prince's orbit who were both close enough to even potentially benefit financially by his death AND smart enough to execute a murder plot and get away with it. Just think about the cast of characters who fit criteria #1 and ask yourself if they really fit criteria #2.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

disch said:

exactly. If this was a murder plot, the plotters would have to have been clever enough to outsmart 2 years of investigation by local and federal agencies, but dumb enough to think this was a logical way to get their hands on Prince's millions.

Well the plotters fooled Prince...so yes they are criminal enough to have gotten away so far and look at the botched investigation...not ALL the evidence was collected and who knows what was discarded

Reply #47 posted 05/09/18 10:47am

Strawberrylova123

I'm surprised that they didn't interview Takumi and Bria
Reply #48 posted 05/09/18 11:22am

cloveringold85

precioux said:

Strawberrylova123 said:
But he wasn't clinically dead, you only have a near death experience if your heart stops and breathing stops
I’m just repeating what Prince said. The ambulance also supposedly stopped to be able to “take a picture of his heart” because the ride was too rough. JH was so worried because he looked “dead” ..she said he did not “faint”. I was also wondering what she meant when she stated they “hit him” the first time. It almost sounded like she was referring to using the paddles, but then she said he came around after hitting him a second time, so I’m sure she was talking about the Narcan. That transcript is more in depth and really showed how much denial he was in. It astounded me. Not to get totally off track, but people have reported leaving their bodies when they were not clinically dead. One example is that little boy who the movie “Heaven is real” was made after. He was seriously ill and his heart never stopped beating. I have to make sure that’s the name of the movie.. [Edited 5/8/18 19:37pm]

.

I was also stunned when they said that Prince's heart was only beating like 5 beats per minute! eek

.

I know that movie you are speaking of, and it has happened to a lot of people (NDE). I'm pretty sure I had one, when I was around 8-10 years old. I had to have minor surgery, and I hate being put under anesthesia....anyways, I felt very strange while I was under and this voice in my head said "am i dying". It was a scary feeling for me. I hate that feeling of not being able to wake up. I don't even like going to the dentist and getting local anesthesia. I don't like the feeling of not being in control of my body.

.

I remember Prince saying that he was fighting hard to come back. So sad. sad

.

[Edited 5/9/18 11:22am]

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #49 posted 05/09/18 11:29am

LilaLiebe

[Flame snip - luv4u]

An old soul
Reply #50 posted 05/09/18 11:37am

cloveringold85

It is beyond me that anyone thinks that this petition is worthless and embarrassing, after reading the investigation documents and seeing all the information that was left out of the public files.

.

It's almost as if the authorities would rather sweep this under the carpet and have everyone just forget about it.

.

The embarrassing part is how the authorities let so many people off the hook and did not investigate leads any further.

.

This case has been handled so half-assed since the beginning!

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #51 posted 05/09/18 12:34pm

PurpleDiamonds1

disch said:

i disgree that there's ANY evidence that there were people in prince's orbit who were both close enough to even potentially benefit financially by his death AND smart enough to execute a murder plot and get away with it. Just think about the cast of characters who fit criteria #1 and ask yourself if they really fit criteria #2.



PurpleDiamonds1 said:


disch said:

exactly. If this was a murder plot, the plotters would have to have been clever enough to outsmart 2 years of investigation by local and federal agencies, but dumb enough to think this was a logical way to get their hands on Prince's millions. 


 



Well the plotters fooled Prince...so yes they are criminal enough to have gotten away so far and look at the botched investigation...not ALL the evidence was collected and who knows what was discarded

 


One does stand out IMO...and it's Phaedra just look at her past.
Reply #52 posted 05/09/18 12:43pm

disch

But Phaedra (or anyone) would have had to conspire with at least one other person (probably multiple) to actually carry out this plot. And ALL the conspirators would have to be clever enough to evade detection.

-

I know these kind of successful murder plots seem common from TV and movies but in reality I think they're very very hard to pull off -- especially when your victim is a high-profile celeb with tons of media attention.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

disch said:

i disgree that there's ANY evidence that there were people in prince's orbit who were both close enough to even potentially benefit financially by his death AND smart enough to execute a murder plot and get away with it. Just think about the cast of characters who fit criteria #1 and ask yourself if they really fit criteria #2.

One does stand out IMO...and it's Phaedra just look at her past.

Reply #53 posted 05/09/18 12:57pm

kmama07

PennyPurple said:

 



PurpleDiamonds1 said:


Bodhitheblackdog said:

 


are you suggesting that parties unknown held Prince down and threw the pills down his throat and forced him to swallow them?  did I miss reading about the bruises or other trauma on his body indicating he fought with his murderers? did his clothes get turned inside out during that struggle? including his socks? wow, he really fought for his life!



Prince had NO idea he was about to take those fentanyl laced pills....still IMO someone went out of their way to make the pills look like meds he was taking and has gotten away with it so far....

? Street drugs are made to look like the real deal. That's the problem with buying off the street, you don't know if it's the real thing or poison being cut into them. 



Exactly. I don't believe someone knowingly planted fentanyl laced pills where Prince could get them. Prince did however (in my opinion) knowingly take pills that weren't prescribed by a doctor, thereby taking a chance on whether or not they were legit medication.
[Edited 5/9/18 12:58pm]
[Edited 5/9/18 12:59pm]
Reply #54 posted 05/09/18 1:01pm

kmama07

disch said:

i disgree that there's ANY evidence that there were people in prince's orbit who were both close enough to even potentially benefit financially by his death AND smart enough to execute a murder plot and get away with it. Just think about the cast of characters who fit criteria #1 and ask yourself if they really fit criteria #2.



PurpleDiamonds1 said:


disch said:

exactly. If this was a murder plot, the plotters would have to have been clever enough to outsmart 2 years of investigation by local and federal agencies, but dumb enough to think this was a logical way to get their hands on Prince's millions. 


 



Well the plotters fooled Prince...so yes they are criminal enough to have gotten away so far and look at the botched investigation...not ALL the evidence was collected and who knows what was discarded

 


Agree with you Disch
Reply #55 posted 05/09/18 1:31pm

nelcp777

disch said:

i disgree that there's ANY evidence that there were people in prince's orbit who were both close enough to even potentially benefit financially by his death AND smart enough to execute a murder plot and get away with it. Just think about the cast of characters who fit criteria #1 and ask yourself if they really fit criteria #2.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

disch said: Well the plotters fooled Prince...so yes they are criminal enough to have gotten away so far and look at the botched investigation...not ALL the evidence was collected and who knows what was discarded

I agree

Reply #56 posted 05/09/18 2:19pm

fortuneandserendipity

laytonian said:

9. Failure to investigate a CNN report on the morning of April 21, 2016, that gunshots were heard at Paisley Park and believed to involve a Paisley Park employee. All information of this report was deleted from the internet.


BS. CNN transcripts do not disappear from the internet. There's another idiotic petition online claiming that the report of shots was by Wolf Blitzer (a petition so stupid that no one else will sign it!)
So I went looking for CNN's 4/21/16 transcripts of the Wolf Blitzer coverage and guess what! There IS a mention of a "shot".

http://transcripts.cnn.co...om.02.html

I hate to disappoint the armchair detectives but it's actually about things being shot at Paisley Park.

Like videos. Like movies.

.

So there you go.



Haha lol Assuming it's the same coverage previously referred to here. Unbelievably, multiple times?! Now who was it that kept bringing this up, reaffirming it? Oh yeah, laura frikkin richardson. "Shots were fired" damn it. confused

Jeez I think there's more chance of 'Wolf' Blitzer actually becoming a werewolf than this story ever materializing faint

Reply #57 posted 05/09/18 2:24pm

leec1

Do we know why there are so many redacted files as mentioned in Part 8?

When I looked at the list, I see that there are statues listed next to each file.

The link to these files is below.

https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/itemized-data-withheld.pdf

Reply #58 posted 05/09/18 3:25pm

disch

Here are Minnesota statutes 13.82 and 13.37 (referenced next to the redacted file names). The statutes basically say that some info can remain non-public if certain private info about a person would be revealed in it.

-

Many of the file names reference statute 13.37 2(a), which says:

"The following government data is classified as nonpublic data with regard to data not on individuals, pursuant to section 13.02, subdivision 9, and as private data with regard to data on individuals, pursuant to section 13.02, subdivision 12: Security information; trade secret information; sealed absentee ballots prior to opening by an election judge; sealed bids, including the number of bids received, prior to the opening of the bids; parking space leasing data; and labor relations information, provided that specific labor relations information which relates to a specific labor organization is classified as protected nonpublic data pursuant to section

leec1 said:

Do we know why there are so many redacted files as mentioned in Part 8?

When I looked at the list, I see that there are statues listed next to each file.

The link to these files is below.

https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/itemized-data-withheld.pdf

Reply #59 posted 05/09/18 3:34pm

Bodhitheblackdog

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

disch said:

i disgree that there's ANY evidence that there were people in prince's orbit who were both close enough to even potentially benefit financially by his death AND smart enough to execute a murder plot and get away with it. Just think about the cast of characters who fit criteria #1 and ask yourself if they really fit criteria #2.

One does stand out IMO...and it's Phaedra just look at her past.

are we supposed to entertain the thought that Prince employees would commit a variety of crimes and risk prison to enable Tyka and his half-siblings to inherit more or faster? something here does NOT compute...

Reply #60 posted 05/09/18 3:34pm

precioux

Bodhitheblackdog said:

yes yes Penny is 100% right...petition should be a stickey!

[Edited 5/9/18 8:24am]




MMJAS tried - thread was redirected here (eyeroll)
Reply #61 posted 05/09/18 3:37pm

precioux

MMJas said:

 



Bodhitheblackdog said:


yes yes Penny is 100% right...petition should be a stickey!


[Edited 5/9/18 8:24am]



 


Wel, I created a seperate thread for it, so that people could sign the petition if they were so inclined, and that thread was closed and then I was redirected to this one. Go figure...



Thanks for trying
Reply #62 posted 05/09/18 3:51pm

disch

why would a link to the petition need to be a sticky? The petition isn't associated with prince.org, and nothing's stopping people who want to sign it from signing it, whether it's a sticky post on this site or not. This site doesn't normally make stickies to draw attention to "fan activism" that it's not involved with.

precioux said:

MMJas said:

Wel, I created a seperate thread for it, so that people could sign the petition if they were so inclined, and that thread was closed and then I was redirected to this one. Go figure...

Thanks for trying

Reply #63 posted 05/09/18 4:14pm

leec1

disch said:

Here are Minnesota statutes 13.82 and 13.37 (referenced next to the redacted file names). The statutes basically say that some info can remain non-public if certain private info about a person would be revealed in it.

-

Many of the file names reference statute 13.37 2(a), which says:

"The following government data is classified as nonpublic data with regard to data not on individuals, pursuant to section 13.02, subdivision 9, and as private data with regard to data on individuals, pursuant to section 13.02, subdivision 12: Security information; trade secret information; sealed absentee ballots prior to opening by an election judge; sealed bids, including the number of bids received, prior to the opening of the bids; parking space leasing data; and labor relations information, provided that specific labor relations information which relates to a specific labor organization is classified as protected nonpublic data pursuant to section

leec1 said:

Do we know why there are so many redacted files as mentioned in Part 8?

When I looked at the list, I see that there are statues listed next to each file.

The link to these files is below.

https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/itemized-data-withheld.pdf

Thanks.

Reply #64 posted 05/09/18 7:39pm

Zannaloaf

bibrose said:

PRINCE HOMICIDE: Grand Jury investigation DEMANDED

  • by: EMandisa S
  • target: Local and Federal Law Enforcement
871 SUPPORTERS
1,500 GOAL

Mark Metz, County Attorney
Carver County Attorney's Office
604 East Fourth Street
Chaska MN 55318

Dear Mark Metz,


We the undersigned and the signatories to this Petition are writing to respectfully petition that a Grand Jury investigation be undertaken to uncover the complete truth about the death of Prince Rogers Nelson (aka "Prince") whose sad and untimely demise occurred on April 21, 2016.

The Grand Jury investigation will enable relevant parties to be subpoenaed and cross-examined under oath by experienced prosecutors.


On April 19, 2018, we heard the Carver County Attorney, Mark Metz, announce at the press conference held at the Carver County Justice Center the closure of the investigation and that no charges would be filed in relation to the death of Prince.

We noted that Dr. Schulenberg has agreed to pay $30,000 in a civil settlement with the U.S. Attorney's Office for violation of the Controlled Substances Act due to his prescription of a controlled medication under Kirk Johnson's name for Prince.

We also noted that Andrew Kornfeld, was not castigated for violating the Controlled Substances Act. Although he is not a medical doctor, he carried, interstate from California to Minnesota, a controlled substance that he was not authorized to handle or administer and then sought to protect himself by using the "Good Samaritan" law to call 911.

We have reviewed the investigation documents released by Carver County and identified several red flags in the investigation documents and photos taken at Paisley Park. We believe that the investigation was not properly handled.

The red flags indicate that the complexity of the case was beyond the capacity and expertise of the Carver County investigators. The red flags also indicate that the investigation was severely compromised; therefore, Prince has unfairly been denied justice.

The red flags that we noted include:

1.Failure to take control of and secure Paisley Park until all evidence gathering had been completed – this gave sufficient time for the crime scene to be tampered with, staged (pills and money spread in various locations in Paisley Park), and documents and other evidence destroyed and removed from Paisley Park by parties who sought to cover up;

2.Failure to remove and control all computers and laptops that Prince actively used. Investigators did not remove a laptop that they saw in Prince's bedroom until five days after Prince's death. Again, this gave ample time for email correspondence and files to be deleted by parties who sought to cover up;

3.Failure to take fingerprints of Prince and fingerprints on pills, money and other items at Paisley Park, and investigators touching evidence without wearing gloves;

4.Failure to probe discrepancies in statements provided by witnesses who were present when Prince passed out on the plane from the Atlanta concert, and deferential treatment, including leading and suggesting answers to a witness;

5.Failure to probe an Associate's disclosure that he removed prescribed medication that Prince said was not working for him but could not recall what he did with the medication;

6.Failure to examine the background of various parties that are relevant to the investigation. For example, the drug use history and drugs held by all relevant parties should have been probed;

7.Failure to determine if there had been malfeasance and fraud going on regarding Paisley Park and Prince's assets that may have motivated any party to cause him harm – the spread of cash around Paisley Park, and an employee carrying significant cash belonging to Paisley Park in her handbag suggests laxity in internal controls that could facilitate malfeasance;

8.Failure to examine legal agreements, past and ongoing lawsuits, domestic and international business arrangements, and financial records for evidence of any party that may have been motivated to cause Prince harm. For instance, Prince had a very well documented contentious relationship with a music industry firm. He had engaged in a protracted legal battle and regained control of the master recording copyright of his music in April 2014. This caused considerable anxiety for the executives of the music industry firm.

9.Failure to investigate a CNN report on the morning of April 21, 2016, that gunshots were heard at Paisley Park and believed to involve a Paisley Park employee. All information of this report was deleted from the internet.

10.Failure to follow-up on leads provided by relatives, close friends, and former managers and staff of Paisley Park who reached out to investigators.

11.Failure to properly gather all evidence relevant to the investigation before cremation of the decedent. Prince was cremated 29 hours after he was found dead. According to the FAQ section on the cremationsocietyofmn.com website, "the county Medical Examiner typically takes 2-3 business days to approve cremation…. The only delay would be if a Medical Examiner deemed it necessary to investigate the death or question the cause of death."

12.Failure to establish without a shadow of doubt that Prince himself administered the fatal dose of fentanyl that killed him. Despite an ongoing investigation, the Carver County Medical Examiner deemed Prince's cause of death as "decedent self-administered fentanyl overdose".

The Medical Examiner, in this case, is considered a "fentanyl expert" with multiple articles on fentanyl appearing in JAMA. A simple hair follicle test would have established if Prince was a long-term fentanyl user and provided a timeline of fentanyl use going back three months, if such use had occurred. This is a fact one would assume "a fentanyl expert" would know and consider administering during an autopsy.

The Medical Examiner reported that the Fentanyl level in Prince's blood was 67.8 mcg, which is almost 17 times the normal level of 3 to 5 mcg for cancer patients! This high level was discovered during an autopsy examination which occurred 24 hours after Prince was found.

It is believed he could have been dead for more than six hours prior to his discovery, therefore, considering that fentanyl has a half-life of 6-24 hours and continues to metabolize after death, could the level of fentanyl in Prince's body have been more astronomical at time of death than the high level found at autopsy 30 hours later? This would suggest that the potential cause of death should be "homicide by fentanyl toxicity"! The Medical Examiner's report that the decedent self-administered a fatal fentanyl dose as cause of death while there was an active investigation by the Sheriff's Office and DEA is questionable and not considered "standard protocol".

The reported high level of fentanyl toxicity that apparently killed Prince also raises questions about why the Sherriff's officers, emergency services staff, and Paisley Park employees were able to handle Prince's body without protective Haz-Mat wear.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

There is ample evidence to support the fact that Prince had several plans which do not support the narrative that he may have taken his own life. Prince was working with a new band with young musicians on a new album; he released a new album and a song from an upcoming new album; started writing his memoirs for a book which the publisher will release later this year; ordered several new shoes for his Summer tour; received a brand new piano from Yamaha, and a new custom guitar; asked the Musical Director who did orchestral compositions for his albums to block time on his calendar in the Summer so they could work on a new Minneapolis sound following the release of his song "Baltimore"; renovated the Sound Stage at Paisley Park to host his solo 'Piano And A Microphone' concert and planned concerts for various artists; was mentoring several young musicians; and reached out to several previous colleagues.

We humbly request that the Carver County Prosecutor convene a Grand Jury, as soon as possible, to properly investigate Prince's death. All Prince's associates, employees, managers, tour managers, bodyguards, attorneys, relatives, ex-wives, girlfriends, proteges, musicians, close friends, business associates, vendors he collaborated with, and executives of music industry firms that Prince had contractual relationships with should be subpoenaed to testify under oath so that the true circumstances surrounding the untimely and unfortunate death of Prince can be determined without a shadow of doubt!

Anything less is unacceptable!
Otherwise, we are left with a very painful reminder that the State, City and community that Prince so loved abysmally failed to properly investigate his unfortunate passing and grant him the justice he so deserved. Thanks in advance for your kind cooperation and prompt attention to this matter!


Signed by the following who represent various "Truth and Justice for Prince" groups:


E. Mandisa Subira
Audrey Quaye
Francine Amato
Gloria Rott
Laura Veney

Tammy Lenon Young

Dorothy Anthony


Cc:
Sheriff Jim Olson
Carver County Sheriff's Office

Denny Laufenburger, Mayor
City of Chanhassen

Governor Mark Dayton
Office of Governor
State of Minnesota

Attorney General Lori Swanson
Office of the Attorney General
State of Minnesota

U.S. Attorney Gregory G. Brooker
The United States Attorney's Office
District of Minnesota

Brian K. McKnightSpecial Agent in Charge
US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)
Minneapolis District Office

more

https://www.thepetitionsi...-demanded/

demand. lol

Reply #65 posted 05/10/18 6:29am

Bodhitheblackdog

Zannaloaf said:

bibrose said:

PRINCE HOMICIDE: Grand Jury investigation DEMANDED

  • by: EMandisa S
  • target: Local and Federal Law Enforcement
871 SUPPORTERS
1,500 GOAL

Mark Metz, County Attorney
Carver County Attorney's Office
604 East Fourth Street
Chaska MN 55318

Dear Mark Metz,


We the undersigned and the signatories to this Petition are writing to respectfully petition that a Grand Jury investigation be undertaken to uncover the complete truth about the death of Prince Rogers Nelson (aka "Prince") whose sad and untimely demise occurred on April 21, 2016.

The Grand Jury investigation will enable relevant parties to be subpoenaed and cross-examined under oath by experienced prosecutors.


On April 19, 2018, we heard the Carver County Attorney, Mark Metz, announce at the press conference held at the Carver County Justice Center the closure of the investigation and that no charges would be filed in relation to the death of Prince.

We noted that Dr. Schulenberg has agreed to pay $30,000 in a civil settlement with the U.S. Attorney's Office for violation of the Controlled Substances Act due to his prescription of a controlled medication under Kirk Johnson's name for Prince.

We also noted that Andrew Kornfeld, was not castigated for violating the Controlled Substances Act. Although he is not a medical doctor, he carried, interstate from California to Minnesota, a controlled substance that he was not authorized to handle or administer and then sought to protect himself by using the "Good Samaritan" law to call 911.

We have reviewed the investigation documents released by Carver County and identified several red flags in the investigation documents and photos taken at Paisley Park. We believe that the investigation was not properly handled.

The red flags indicate that the complexity of the case was beyond the capacity and expertise of the Carver County investigators. The red flags also indicate that the investigation was severely compromised; therefore, Prince has unfairly been denied justice.

The red flags that we noted include:

1.Failure to take control of and secure Paisley Park until all evidence gathering had been completed – this gave sufficient time for the crime scene to be tampered with, staged (pills and money spread in various locations in Paisley Park), and documents and other evidence destroyed and removed from Paisley Park by parties who sought to cover up;

2.Failure to remove and control all computers and laptops that Prince actively used. Investigators did not remove a laptop that they saw in Prince's bedroom until five days after Prince's death. Again, this gave ample time for email correspondence and files to be deleted by parties who sought to cover up;

3.Failure to take fingerprints of Prince and fingerprints on pills, money and other items at Paisley Park, and investigators touching evidence without wearing gloves;

4.Failure to probe discrepancies in statements provided by witnesses who were present when Prince passed out on the plane from the Atlanta concert, and deferential treatment, including leading and suggesting answers to a witness;

5.Failure to probe an Associate's disclosure that he removed prescribed medication that Prince said was not working for him but could not recall what he did with the medication;

6.Failure to examine the background of various parties that are relevant to the investigation. For example, the drug use history and drugs held by all relevant parties should have been probed;

7.Failure to determine if there had been malfeasance and fraud going on regarding Paisley Park and Prince's assets that may have motivated any party to cause him harm – the spread of cash around Paisley Park, and an employee carrying significant cash belonging to Paisley Park in her handbag suggests laxity in internal controls that could facilitate malfeasance;

8.Failure to examine legal agreements, past and ongoing lawsuits, domestic and international business arrangements, and financial records for evidence of any party that may have been motivated to cause Prince harm. For instance, Prince had a very well documented contentious relationship with a music industry firm. He had engaged in a protracted legal battle and regained control of the master recording copyright of his music in April 2014. This caused considerable anxiety for the executives of the music industry firm.

9.Failure to investigate a CNN report on the morning of April 21, 2016, that gunshots were heard at Paisley Park and believed to involve a Paisley Park employee. All information of this report was deleted from the internet.

10.Failure to follow-up on leads provided by relatives, close friends, and former managers and staff of Paisley Park who reached out to investigators.

11.Failure to properly gather all evidence relevant to the investigation before cremation of the decedent. Prince was cremated 29 hours after he was found dead. According to the FAQ section on the cremationsocietyofmn.com website, "the county Medical Examiner typically takes 2-3 business days to approve cremation…. The only delay would be if a Medical Examiner deemed it necessary to investigate the death or question the cause of death."

12.Failure to establish without a shadow of doubt that Prince himself administered the fatal dose of fentanyl that killed him. Despite an ongoing investigation, the Carver County Medical Examiner deemed Prince's cause of death as "decedent self-administered fentanyl overdose".

The Medical Examiner, in this case, is considered a "fentanyl expert" with multiple articles on fentanyl appearing in JAMA. A simple hair follicle test would have established if Prince was a long-term fentanyl user and provided a timeline of fentanyl use going back three months, if such use had occurred. This is a fact one would assume "a fentanyl expert" would know and consider administering during an autopsy.

The Medical Examiner reported that the Fentanyl level in Prince's blood was 67.8 mcg, which is almost 17 times the normal level of 3 to 5 mcg for cancer patients! This high level was discovered during an autopsy examination which occurred 24 hours after Prince was found.

It is believed he could have been dead for more than six hours prior to his discovery, therefore, considering that fentanyl has a half-life of 6-24 hours and continues to metabolize after death, could the level of fentanyl in Prince's body have been more astronomical at time of death than the high level found at autopsy 30 hours later? This would suggest that the potential cause of death should be "homicide by fentanyl toxicity"! The Medical Examiner's report that the decedent self-administered a fatal fentanyl dose as cause of death while there was an active investigation by the Sheriff's Office and DEA is questionable and not considered "standard protocol".

The reported high level of fentanyl toxicity that apparently killed Prince also raises questions about why the Sherriff's officers, emergency services staff, and Paisley Park employees were able to handle Prince's body without protective Haz-Mat wear.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

There is ample evidence to support the fact that Prince had several plans which do not support the narrative that he may have taken his own life. Prince was working with a new band with young musicians on a new album; he released a new album and a song from an upcoming new album; started writing his memoirs for a book which the publisher will release later this year; ordered several new shoes for his Summer tour; received a brand new piano from Yamaha, and a new custom guitar; asked the Musical Director who did orchestral compositions for his albums to block time on his calendar in the Summer so they could work on a new Minneapolis sound following the release of his song "Baltimore"; renovated the Sound Stage at Paisley Park to host his solo 'Piano And A Microphone' concert and planned concerts for various artists; was mentoring several young musicians; and reached out to several previous colleagues.

We humbly request that the Carver County Prosecutor convene a Grand Jury, as soon as possible, to properly investigate Prince's death. All Prince's associates, employees, managers, tour managers, bodyguards, attorneys, relatives, ex-wives, girlfriends, proteges, musicians, close friends, business associates, vendors he collaborated with, and executives of music industry firms that Prince had contractual relationships with should be subpoenaed to testify under oath so that the true circumstances surrounding the untimely and unfortunate death of Prince can be determined without a shadow of doubt!

Anything less is unacceptable!
Otherwise, we are left with a very painful reminder that the State, City and community that Prince so loved abysmally failed to properly investigate his unfortunate passing and grant him the justice he so deserved. Thanks in advance for your kind cooperation and prompt attention to this matter!


Signed by the following who represent various "Truth and Justice for Prince" groups:


E. Mandisa Subira
Audrey Quaye
Francine Amato
Gloria Rott
Laura Veney

Tammy Lenon Young

Dorothy Anthony


Cc:
Sheriff Jim Olson
Carver County Sheriff's Office

Denny Laufenburger, Mayor
City of Chanhassen

Governor Mark Dayton
Office of Governor
State of Minnesota

Attorney General Lori Swanson
Office of the Attorney General
State of Minnesota

U.S. Attorney Gregory G. Brooker
The United States Attorney's Office
District of Minnesota

Brian K. McKnightSpecial Agent in Charge
US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)
Minneapolis District Office

more

https://www.thepetitionsi...-demanded/

demand. lol

yeah, maybe that was a little counter-productive...how about 'respectfully request'...more flies with honey and all that...

Reply #66 posted 05/10/18 7:31am

1Sasha

I can't argue with this.

Reply #67 posted 05/10/18 7:35am

bondno9

Kirk is a bald headed untruthful human being!!! The more I re-read his statement mad

Reply #68 posted 05/10/18 7:37am

disch

It doesn't really matter whether they "demand" or "politely request" or whatever. The DA is not going to convene a grand jury unless he feels there's enough evidence to pursue federal charges against someone

-

The petitioners' time would be better spent by doing some research into how investigations and grand juries work, and, if they feel a petition would be effective, creating a cohesive document that doesn't include a jumble of urban myths and general complaints about things they feel weren't done properly in the immediate death aftermath. Those things don't support their ask.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Zannaloaf said:

demand. lol

yeah, maybe that was a little counter-productive...how about 'respectfully request'...more flies with honey and all that...

Reply #69 posted 05/10/18 7:39am

Bodhitheblackdog

disch said:

It doesn't really matter whether they "demand" or "politely request" or whatever. The DA is not going to convene a grand jury unless he feels there's enough evidence to pursue federal charges against someone

-

The petitioners' time would be better spent by doing some research into how investigations and grand juries work, and, if they feel a petition would be effective, creating a cohesive document that doesn't include a jumble of urban myths and general complaints about things they feel weren't done properly in the immediate death aftermath. Those things don't support their ask.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

yeah, maybe that was a little counter-productive...how about 'respectfully request'...more flies with honey and all that...

my face is red, I stand corrected...

Reply #70 posted 05/10/18 7:53am

PennyPurple

Bodhitheblackdog said:

my face is red, I stand corrected...

lol

Reply #71 posted 05/10/18 9:24am

PurpleDiamonds1

bondno9 said:

Kirk is a bald headed untruthful human being!!! The more I re-read his statement  mad


yeahthat
Reply #72 posted 05/10/18 9:26am

PurpleDiamonds1

disch said:

But Phaedra (or anyone) would have had to conspire with at least one other person (probably multiple) to actually carry out this plot. And ALL the conspirators would have to be clever enough to evade detection.


-


I know these kind of successful murder plots seem common from TV and movies but in reality I think they're very very hard to pull off -- especially when your victim is a high-profile celeb with tons of media attention.



PurpleDiamonds1 said:


disch said:

i disgree that there's ANY evidence that there were people in prince's orbit who were both close enough to even potentially benefit financially by his death AND smart enough to execute a murder plot and get away with it. Just think about the cast of characters who fit criteria #1 and ask yourself if they really fit criteria #2.


 



One does stand out IMO...and it's Phaedra just look at her past.

 


Well she and the others also stayed to clean up...unreal...
Reply #73 posted 05/10/18 10:37am

precioux

disch said:

It doesn't really matter whether they "demand" or "politely request" or whatever. The DA is not going to convene a grand jury unless he feels there's enough evidence to pursue federal charges against someone

-

The petitioners' time would be better spent by doing some research into how investigations and grand juries work, and, if they feel a petition would be effective, creating a cohesive document that doesn't include a jumble of urban myths and general complaints about things they feel weren't done properly in the immediate death aftermath. Those things don't support their ask.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

yeah, maybe that was a little counter-productive...how about 'respectfully request'...more flies with honey and all that...

This was no "investigatoin", sweeheart. This, my dear was a joke.....ask Richrd Pryor how those "work"

Reply #74 posted 05/10/18 11:12am

1Sasha

I still say they thought he had a "simple death" - heart attack, stroke, aneurysm - nothing "special." Go in, remove the body, lock the door, that's it. And then everything hit the fan and they were in serious trouble. The feds should have been called in immediately due to Prince's status in the world. I don't think there is any way they could determine what exactly happened.

Reply #75 posted 05/10/18 11:22am

disch

I think they knew (strongly suspected) almost immediately it was an OD. One of the 3 people there was from a drug clinic, there to help with an intervention. Another doctor arrived on the scene who had treated him the prior day for withdrawal symptoms. The warrant issued on April 21 said specifically that officers wanted to "collect any and all illicit narcotics that could explain the cause of the decedent’s death" along with drug-related paraphernalia and records, and they did inventory a bunch of pills that day after they executed the warrant.

1Sasha said:

I still say they thought he had a "simple death" - heart attack, stroke, aneurysm - nothing "special." Go in, remove the body, lock the door, that's it. And then everything hit the fan and they were in serious trouble. The feds should have been called in immediately due to Prince's status in the world. I don't think there is any way they could determine what exactly happened.

Reply #76 posted 05/10/18 11:39am

PurpleDiamonds1

1Sasha said:

I still say they thought he had a "simple death" - heart attack, stroke, aneurysm - nothing "special."  Go in, remove the body, lock the door, that's it.  And then everything hit the fan and they were in serious trouble.  The feds should have been called in immediately due to Prince's status in the world.  I don't think there is any way they could determine what exactly happened.


agree....his house was also staged to look as if he was doing drugs...then the autopsy showed the truth a different picture than what they saw.
Reply #77 posted 05/10/18 11:45am

PurpleDiamonds1

You would think just the fact that this was Prince the authorities would have made everyone leave and secure the place so they could do a proper investigation.
I don't understand those associates that decided after they knew Prince was dead thought to stay to clean up, shred documents etc. if you were truly upset about his death you would have wanted to leave, not cover your a$$
[Edited 5/10/18 11:47am]
Reply #78 posted 05/10/18 3:20pm

PennyPurple

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

1Sasha said:

I still say they thought he had a "simple death" - heart attack, stroke, aneurysm - nothing "special." Go in, remove the body, lock the door, that's it. And then everything hit the fan and they were in serious trouble. The feds should have been called in immediately due to Prince's status in the world. I don't think there is any way they could determine what exactly happened.

agree....his house was also staged to look as if he was doing drugs...then the autopsy showed the truth a different picture than what they saw.

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs. Let's at least stick to the facts.

Reply #79 posted 05/10/18 7:07pm

Bodhitheblackdog

PennyPurple said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

1Sasha said: agree....his house was also staged to look as if he was doing drugs...then the autopsy showed the truth a different picture than what they saw.

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs. Let's at least stick to the facts.

His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.

Reply #80 posted 05/10/18 7:14pm

Morgaine

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



PennyPurple said:


 



PurpleDiamonds1 said:


1Sasha said: agree....his house was also staged to look as if he was doing drugs...then the autopsy showed the truth a different picture than what they saw.

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs.  Let's at least stick to the facts.



His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.



Bravo!!!
I totally agree and could not have said it better!
Thanks, Bodhi for keeping it real 💜
The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #81 posted 05/10/18 7:20pm

Strawberrylova123

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



PennyPurple said:


 



PurpleDiamonds1 said:


1Sasha said: agree....his house was also staged to look as if he was doing drugs...then the autopsy showed the truth a different picture than what they saw.

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs.  Let's at least stick to the facts.



His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.


Many people are in denial
Reply #82 posted 05/10/18 7:51pm

Krystalkisses

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs. Let's at least stick to the facts.

His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.

Yes. nod

Reply #83 posted 05/10/18 8:05pm

Menes

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs. Let's at least stick to the facts.

His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.

A vicious addiction that was fueled by a vain pompous attitude that "all will be well" when I get ready for it to be well.

All roads lead to "Rome". The denial, the lies, the manipulation, the childhood history, the personality traits, the mal-treatment of subordinates...

Lastly, the unequivocal science and math that directly correlates to addiction.

I have softened my position only because I know that this is a disease. Where I will not bend is where the evidence from an autopsy takes precedence over a "crash and burn" thought process. Nothing in an autopsy would/can determine his state of mind. He lost everything he worked so hard to preserve when he was exposed. His profile matters most.

If you still think he didn't know what he was taking( after understanding the time frames , the decades of use and the shear lengths he went to conceal his usage ) , disregard the science and math and impose your own informal logic that is void of any critical thinking.

Reply #84 posted 05/10/18 8:59pm

Bodhitheblackdog

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.

A vicious addiction that was fueled by a vain pompous attitude that "all will be well" when I get ready for it to be well.

All roads lead to "Rome". The denial, the lies, the manipulation, the childhood history, the personality traits, the mal-treatment of subordinates...

Lastly, the unequivocal science and math that directly correlates to addiction.

I have softened my position only because I know that this is a disease. Where I will not bend is where the evidence from an autopsy takes precedence over a "crash and burn" thought process. Nothing in an autopsy would/can determine his state of mind. He lost everything he worked so hard to preserve when he was exposed. His profile matters most.

If you still think he didn't know what he was taking( after understanding the time frames , the decades of use and the shear lengths he went to conceal his usage ) , disregard the science and math and impose your own informal logic that is void of any critical thinking.

MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.

The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.

I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.

Reply #85 posted 05/10/18 9:24pm

Krystalkisses

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

A vicious addiction that was fueled by a vain pompous attitude that "all will be well" when I get ready for it to be well.

All roads lead to "Rome". The denial, the lies, the manipulation, the childhood history, the personality traits, the mal-treatment of subordinates...

Lastly, the unequivocal science and math that directly correlates to addiction.

I have softened my position only because I know that this is a disease. Where I will not bend is where the evidence from an autopsy takes precedence over a "crash and burn" thought process. Nothing in an autopsy would/can determine his state of mind. He lost everything he worked so hard to preserve when he was exposed. His profile matters most.

If you still think he didn't know what he was taking( after understanding the time frames , the decades of use and the shear lengths he went to conceal his usage ) , disregard the science and math and impose your own informal logic that is void of any critical thinking.

MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.

The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.

I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.

wow. Yes I think he was ill equipt to actually even feel his feelings. As so many addicts are, even so many everyday people do this with all kinds of vices. But I can imagine long term opiate use really numbs your emotions it was probably very scary and daunting for him to imagine part of the recovery process is breaking down your ego and actually processing emotion again.

[Edited 5/10/18 21:34pm]

Reply #86 posted 05/10/18 9:33pm

PurpleDiamonds1

PennyPurple said:

 



PurpleDiamonds1 said:


1Sasha said:

I still say they thought he had a "simple death" - heart attack, stroke, aneurysm - nothing "special."  Go in, remove the body, lock the door, that's it.  And then everything hit the fan and they were in serious trouble.  The feds should have been called in immediately due to Prince's status in the world.  I don't think there is any way they could determine what exactly happened.



agree....his house was also staged to look as if he was doing drugs...then the autopsy showed the truth a different picture than what they saw.

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs.  Let's at least stick to the facts.


It's to bad they did not finger print what was found in his house...
Reply #87 posted 05/10/18 9:38pm

Bodhitheblackdog

Krystalkisses said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.

The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.

I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.

wow. Yes I think he was ill equipt to actually even feel his feelings. As so many addicts are, even so many everyday people do this with all kinds of vices. But I can imagine long term opiate use really numbs your emotions it proably very scary and daunting for him to imagine part of the recovery process is breaking down your ego and actually processing emotion again.

I think this is a brilliant and quite origional observation, KK, a big contribution to the conversation. It is SO TRUE that addicts become emotionally numb either intentionally (drugging to dull emotional pain) or as a side-effect of the drug use. After years of use..HOW CAN ONE KNOW HOW to feel and process authentic emotion??? As challenging as is the thought of rehab for physical withdrawel...imagine the fears associated with the NECESSARY ACCOMPANYING THERAPY to insure that the addict can function as a HUMAN BEING once again. At that point in his life, I don't think Prince had the strength and focus necessary to go down that path...I think he wanted to crawl into Gods' lap and rest in peace.

Reply #88 posted 05/10/18 9:44pm

Menes

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

A vicious addiction that was fueled by a vain pompous attitude that "all will be well" when I get ready for it to be well.

All roads lead to "Rome". The denial, the lies, the manipulation, the childhood history, the personality traits, the mal-treatment of subordinates...

Lastly, the unequivocal science and math that directly correlates to addiction.

I have softened my position only because I know that this is a disease. Where I will not bend is where the evidence from an autopsy takes precedence over a "crash and burn" thought process. Nothing in an autopsy would/can determine his state of mind. He lost everything he worked so hard to preserve when he was exposed. His profile matters most.

If you still think he didn't know what he was taking( after understanding the time frames , the decades of use and the shear lengths he went to conceal his usage ) , disregard the science and math and impose your own informal logic that is void of any critical thinking.

MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.

The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.

I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.

Missed you too! Yea, I never bought into that "I am taking opiates simply to numb pain " business.

Pain , was the excuse. Addiction, the catalyst.

As far as points (1),(2) and (3), you are correct. No amount of brief ideas about opiate cessation could undermine the need to feed that addiction. All bets were off when he got busted. All of the preaching, the lectures, the admonishments, must have presented themselves as a repetitive cacophony... a hymnal of "swallow your own words". This must have been torture to be so exposed.

God , the Elohim, will not interfere with what the human with free will intends to do. Touch it , and it shall touch you...whatever that may be. Poor thing was heavily misguided . Prince , "created" Prince. Duality is not governed by impunity ,but by hypocrisy.

On to the music... It is the only thing I care to remember. If I were to lump his music into the same pot as his personal life, the whole pot would go to shit. The music and the performances are without rival for a generation. Though this too shall pass, it is our generation that preserves it. We will always be able to have a moment in time where upon hearing a certain song that he created, the translation will remain the same ... hypnotic.

Reply #89 posted 05/10/18 9:51pm

Krystalkisses

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



Krystalkisses said:


 



Bodhitheblackdog said:


 


MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.


 


The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.


 


I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.



 


wow. Yes I think he was ill equipt to actually even feel his feelings. As so many addicts are, even so many everyday people do this with all kinds of vices. But I can imagine long term opiate use really numbs your emotions it proably very scary and daunting for him to imagine part of the recovery process is breaking down your ego and actually processing emotion again.



I think this is a brilliant and quite origional observation, KK, a big contribution to the conversation. It is SO TRUE that addicts become emotionally numb either intentionally (drugging to dull emotional pain) or as a side-effect of the drug use. After years of use..HOW CAN ONE KNOW HOW to feel and process authentic emotion??? As challenging as is the thought of rehab for physical withdrawel...imagine the fears associated with the NECESSARY ACCOMPANYING THERAPY to insure that the addict can function as a HUMAN BEING once again.  At that point in his life, I don't think Prince had the strength and focus necessary to go down that path...I think he wanted to crawl into Gods' lap and rest in peace.



Yes, or deep down he did not trust himself enough.sad
Reply #90 posted 05/10/18 10:03pm

Bodhitheblackdog

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.

The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.

I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.

Missed you too! Yea, I never bought into that "I am taking opiates simply to numb pain " business.

Pain , was the excuse. Addiction, the catalyst.

As far as points (1),(2) and (3), you are correct. No amount of brief ideas about opiate cessation could undermine the need to feed that addiction. All bets were off when he got busted. All of the preaching, the lectures, the admonishments, must have presented themselves as a repetitive cacophony... a hymnal of "swallow your own words". This must have been torture to be so exposed.

God , the Elohim, will not interfere with what the human with free will intends to do. Touch it , and it shall touch you...whatever that may be. Poor thing was heavily misguided . Prince , "created" Prince. Duality is not governed by impunity ,but by hypocrisy.

On to the music... It is the only thing I care to remember. If I were to lump his music into the same pot as his personal life, the whole pot would go to shit. The music and the performances are without rival for a generation. Though this too shall pass, it is our generation that preserves it. We will always be able to have a moment in time where upon hearing a certain song that he created, the translation will remain the same ... hypnotic.

...and erotic! yes yes eye

Reply #91 posted 05/11/18 4:11am

purplerabbithole

Let's not forget that he "felt his feelings" through his music. But it was his music/performance that had physically started breaking him down and unfortunately the drugs were making the performances harder as well. When I listen to the P and M tour, I don't hear a man devoid of emotion or numb at all or just going through the paces. I hear a man full of life, memories, and even regret. However, the natural high of music (as well as its emotional catharsis) can not be dublicated in daily life. Many artists have this problem--coming down from an artistic high. Music was a safe haven where he could cryptically explore and express his emotions (even if they are more basic, hopeful, and nostalgic than what was going on in his life.) I am not going to fight with people here, but I do sometimes think that folks obsessed with the bleakness of his last days forget that PRince's life always had a particular struggle--the ability to live without music was unfathomable 30 years ago and it remained that way to the end. Prince said in 1986 that people thought he might die because of his workaholic ways. People have known about this crutch for years. But did he or anyone else around him know any other way for him to be?? It is in my humble opinion, Prince's fear of getting mental health treatment (psychairists) and well as some of his sub-culture's/upbringing's attitude about seeing mental health professionals and admitting vulnerability (as if admitting that you don't have control over everything and need mental health is like painting a big target for the "man" or whomever" to aim his attack at). Prince had a degree of paranoia and fear that would have been decreased had he gotten the mental health he needed. Prince created a rock star to hide behind and at times I do think he made himself believe sincerely that God would take care of him, that the asperger syndrome-like obsessions with the rhythms and melodies in his head was God's gift rather than his own mental burdern. All this being said, he made a decent run of it for 57 years. And despite his moody personality and the up and downs of his personal relationships, there were quite a few warm bonding moments between him and others that many people on this thread (I believe) choose to either disbelieve or ignore just because they assume that everyone around him were completley callous about his struggles. I contend these other artists understood them perhaps more than we think but also may have went through them themselves. Artists do go into art for a reason. they knew that without being able to work and maintain control of over his image and privacy,, prince psychologically and emotionally (without professional help) would have died anyhow. Massive conundrum for those around him who understood this but also needed to keep their jobs and their own artistic expression in tact. Big lesson here-- don't surround yourself with artists or inspiring artists at all times--they don't have the objectivity to help you. Not saying callous folks weren't working from (his two assistants in particular strike me that way), but even after reading the report, I don't think it was that simple because the man himself was not that simple. When not one person knows more tha 15% of you and you have a tight reign over your image, its hard for others to know how to help you, how bad things are getting, and what every behavior indicates at all times. Sure there were people who didn't care, but I still suspect that there were just as many people who did care but felt powerless to do anything because P's psychology was the root of the problem.



Krystalkisses said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.

The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.

I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.

wow. Yes I think he was ill equipt to actually even feel his feelings. As so many addicts are, even so many everyday people do this with all kinds of vices. But I can imagine long term opiate use really numbs your emotions it was probably very scary and daunting for him to imagine part of the recovery process is breaking down your ego and actually processing emotion again.

[Edited 5/10/18 21:34pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 4:16am]

Reply #92 posted 05/11/18 5:24am

PennyPurple

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs. Let's at least stick to the facts.

His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.

I can't believe people believe that his house was 'staged' to look like he did drugs. mad Staged, my arse.

Reply #93 posted 05/11/18 5:28am

PennyPurple

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PennyPurple said:

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs. Let's at least stick to the facts.

It's to bad they did not finger print what was found in his house...

I agree with that. They should've done a lot more then they did, and sooner. It was a shoddy investigation.

Reply #94 posted 05/11/18 7:19am

bondno9

PennyPurple said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.

I can't believe people believe that his house was 'staged' to look like he did drugs. mad Staged, my arse.

Umm I wouldn't take the green room as evidence of an individual that had been doing drugs for a long time. To say that we would need to know when he started "liviing" in the green room because it is in stark contrast to the other bedroom that leads into the green room. The other bedrrom has mirrors, a couch, mini refrigerator and looked to be very neat and orderly. In addition his office upstairs appeared to be tidy and orderly. Even everything in his refrigerator was lined up and orderly. Items on the kichen counter also. Even the meal on the table was "perfect" and orderly. I mean the containers were lined up nice and neat. Even the little container of sauce. I don't believe the green room was his main "bedroom."

Reply #95 posted 05/11/18 7:43am

Morgaine

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



Krystalkisses said:


 



Bodhitheblackdog said:


 


MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.


 


The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.


 


I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.



 


wow. Yes I think he was ill equipt to actually even feel his feelings. As so many addicts are, even so many everyday people do this with all kinds of vices. But I can imagine long term opiate use really numbs your emotions it proably very scary and daunting for him to imagine part of the recovery process is breaking down your ego and actually processing emotion again.



I think this is a brilliant and quite origional observation, KK, a big contribution to the conversation. It is SO TRUE that addicts become emotionally numb either intentionally (drugging to dull emotional pain) or as a side-effect of the drug use. After years of use..HOW CAN ONE KNOW HOW to feel and process authentic emotion??? As challenging as is the thought of rehab for physical withdrawel...imagine the fears associated with the NECESSARY ACCOMPANYING THERAPY to insure that the addict can function as a HUMAN BEING once agan.  At that point in his life, I don't think Prince had the strength and focus necessary to go down that path...I think he wanted to crawl into Gods' lap and rest in peace.


I cannot imagine Prince ever exposing himself as is necessary in recovery; he always seemed to want and need to be in total control which goes against what is necesssry for recovery.
For him to surrender and let go of his ego? I'm not sure he could've done it honestly. I think his best shot for it was while married to Mayte.
The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #96 posted 05/11/18 7:50am

Strawberrylova123

bondno9 said:

 



PennyPurple said:


 



Bodhitheblackdog said:


 


His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.



I can't believe people believe that his house was 'staged' to look like he did drugs.  mad  Staged, my arse. 



 


Umm I wouldn't take the green room as evidence of an individual that had been doing drugs for a long time.  To say that we would need to know when he started "liviing" in the green room because it is in stark contrast to the other bedroom that leads into the green room.  The other bedrrom has mirrors, a couch, mini refrigerator and looked to be very neat and orderly. In addition his office upstairs appeared to be tidy and orderly. Even everything in his refrigerator was lined up and orderly.  Items on the kichen counter also. Even the meal on the table was "perfect" and orderly.  I mean the containers were lined up nice and neat.  Even the little container of sauce.  I don't believe the green room was his main "bedroom." 


Green room was his main room according to the reports
Reply #97 posted 05/11/18 7:50am

Morgaine

Krystalkisses said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



Krystalkisses said:


 



Bodhitheblackdog said:


 


MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.


 


The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.


 


I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.



 


wow. Yes I think he was ill equipt to actually even feel his feelings. As so many addicts are, even so many everyday people do this with all kinds of vices. But I can imagine long term opiate use really numbs your emotions it proably very scary and daunting for him to imagine part of the recovery process is breaking down your ego and actually processing emotion again.



I think this is a brilliant and quite origional observation, KK, a big contribution to the conversation. It is SO TRUE that addicts become emotionally numb either intentionally (drugging to dull emotional pain) or as a side-effect of the drug use. After years of use..HOW CAN ONE KNOW HOW to feel and process authentic emotion??? As challenging as is the thought of rehab for physical withdrawel...imagine the fears associated with the NECESSARY ACCOMPANYING THERAPY to insure that the addict can function as a HUMAN BEING once again.  At that point in his life, I don't think Prince had the strength and focus necessary to go down that path...I think he wanted to crawl into Gods' lap and rest in peace.



Yes, or deep down he did not trust himself enough.sad


Unfortunately, I do not believe he had enough faith in anything to truly trust. And addiction doesn't help that process. Faith without works is dead is a phrase that comes to mind.
I am not suggesting he had no faith, but that he did not allow himself to truly surrender to a power greater than himself. How could he if he were to remain being Prince?
My opinion. wink
[Edited 5/11/18 7:56am]
The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #98 posted 05/11/18 8:26am

littlemissG

Krystalkisses said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



Krystalkisses said:


 



Bodhitheblackdog said:


 


MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.


 


The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.


 


I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.



 


wow. Yes I think he was ill equipt to actually even feel his feelings. As so many addicts are, even so many everyday people do this with all kinds of vices. But I can imagine long term opiate use really numbs your emotions it proably very scary and daunting for him to imagine part of the recovery process is breaking down your ego and actually processing emotion again.



I think this is a brilliant and quite origional observation, KK, a big contribution to the conversation. It is SO TRUE that addicts become emotionally numb either intentionally (drugging to dull emotional pain) or as a side-effect of the drug use. After years of use..HOW CAN ONE KNOW HOW to feel and process authentic emotion??? As challenging as is the thought of rehab for physical withdrawel...imagine the fears associated with the NECESSARY ACCOMPANYING THERAPY to insure that the addict can function as a HUMAN BEING once again.  At that point in his life, I don't think Prince had the strength and focus necessary to go down that path...I think he wanted to crawl into Gods' lap and rest in peace.



Yes, or deep down he did not trust himself enough.sad
i
At some point everyone has a relapse and there are too many people around to ‘help’ him just this once so the show can go on. I think he knew that wouldn’t change.
No More Haters on the Internet.
Reply #99 posted 05/11/18 8:34am

littlemissG

There is ample evidence to support the fact that Prince had several plans which do not support the narrative that he may have taken his own life. Prince was working with a new band with young musicians on a new album; he released a new album and a song from an upcoming new album; started writing his memoirs for a book which the publisher will release later this year; ordered several new shoes for his Summer tour; received a brand new piano from Yamaha, and a new custom guitar; asked the Musical Director who did orchestral compositions for his albums to block time on his calendar in the Summer so they could work on a new Minneapolis sound following the release of his song "Baltimore"; renovated the Sound Stage at Paisley Park to host his solo 'Piano And A Microphone' concert and planned concerts for various artists; was mentoring several young musicians; and reached out to several previous colleagues.

Sorry that is not prove of not having a drug dependency. No one every thinks their habit is going to kill them. Michael Jackson planned a world tour and had to be put under like he was having a appendectomy every night. Denial and addiction goes hand in hand. Prince when home after Moline remember? If a out of body experience didn’t make him cancel a thing, he was in either denial or acceptance.
[Edited 5/11/18 8:36am]
No More Haters on the Internet.
Reply #100 posted 05/11/18 8:54am

bondno9

Prince did cancel some engagements after Moline. Also, in looking at the computer data he sent an email to Meron on 4/19 stating that someone wanted him 2 sing The Most Beautiful Girl in the World 4 a Mother's dAy special with Queen Latifah. He inferred that he declined because of being "grounded."

Reply #101 posted 05/11/18 8:55am

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame

PennyPurple said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PennyPurple said: It's to bad they did not finger print what was found in his house...

I agree with that. They should've done a lot more then they did, and sooner. It was a shoddy investigation.



They did take fingerprints from items in his house.

However, they didnt take Prince's fingerprints.

But they did complete DNA testing.

And Ps DNA was all over the Bayer and Aleve bottles.

Reply #102 posted 05/11/18 9:03am

bondno9

Going through an incident report that lists names of subjects involved on 4/21. Who is Diane Tamara Frappier? She was 44 at the time and had an address listed in Oakland, CA.

[Edited 5/11/18 9:05am]

Reply #103 posted 05/11/18 9:10am

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame

bondno9 said:

Going through an incident report that lists names of subjects involved on 4/21. Who is Diane Tamara Frappier? She was 44 at the time and had an address listed in Oakland, CA.



She is an attorney that works with Phaedra.

Reply #104 posted 05/11/18 9:35am

bondno9

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

I agree with that. They should've done a lot more then they did, and sooner. It was a shoddy investigation.



They did take fingerprints from items in his house.

However, they didnt take Prince's fingerprints.

But they did complete DNA testing.

And Ps DNA was all over the Bayer and Aleve bottles.

A very poor investigation. No fingerprints from elevator???? Also, a Lt. Eric Kittelson #804 in his incident report dated 4/26 he observed on 4/21 on a nightstand an opened bag of Halls cough drops and a tube of lipstick in a bedroom (soutwest corner of Paisley). He pointed it out to a Sgt Magnuson but the items were not collected for testing eek

Reply #105 posted 05/11/18 9:58am

bondno9

Strawberrylova123 said:

bondno9 said:

Umm I wouldn't take the green room as evidence of an individual that had been doing drugs for a long time. To say that we would need to know when he started "liviing" in the green room because it is in stark contrast to the other bedroom that leads into the green room. The other bedrrom has mirrors, a couch, mini refrigerator and looked to be very neat and orderly. In addition his office upstairs appeared to be tidy and orderly. Even everything in his refrigerator was lined up and orderly. Items on the kichen counter also. Even the meal on the table was "perfect" and orderly. I mean the containers were lined up nice and neat. Even the little container of sauce. I don't believe the green room was his main "bedroom."

Green room was his main room according to the reports

Yeah, but I wonder if it really was his main room. As substainted by the photos and according to the incident report by Sergeant DeWitt Moler (#813) there was a doorway that had a sign on the side stating that only "authorized" personnel were allowed. The room appeared to be a private receiving/dressing room with a bed on the north side of the room. There were couches and chairs along with an open suitcase of beauty products. The next room was Prince's bedroom according to Kirk. As we know, this is the green room. It's really weird because if no one was allowed into his private living area of Paisely why would you need a sign stating only "authorized" personnel were allowed. This appeared to be the only room on the "private" side that had such a sign. Essentially, to get to the green room you had to go through the "authorized" room it appears. Interesting.

[Edited 5/11/18 9:59am]

Reply #106 posted 05/11/18 10:23am

Strawberrylova123

prince did hint about his struggles with addiction in 2014 from this interview with rolling stone magazine , it went over so many peoples heads neutral here's an excerpt

Afterward, the band does a photo shoot in Studio C – one shot is intended for the cover of a "Stopthistrain" single that never actually comes out. Prince disappears for a while before returning with a MacBook that has Delilah live on Skype – he shows her the shoot via webcam. It's past midnight when we begin talking again. He mentions a desire to mentor Chris Brown, says he invited him to Paisley Park. I note that some people think what Brown did to Rihanna was unforgivable. He's shocked. "Unforgivable?" he says. "Goodness. That's when we go check the master, Christ. ... Have you ever instantly forgiven somebody?" I shake my head. "It's the best feeling in the world, and it totally dismantles that person's whole stance." He talks more about mentoring and helping peers, so I wonder aloud if he thinks he could've forestalled Michael Jackson's fate. "I don't want to talk about it," Prince says at first. "I'm too close to it." He goes on: "He is just one of many who have gone through that door – Amy Winehouse and folks. We're all connected, right, we're all brothers and sisters, and the minute we lock that in, we wouldn't let anybody in our family fall. That's why I called Chris Brown. All of us need to be able to reach out and just fix stuff. There's nothing that's unforgivable."

Reply #107 posted 05/11/18 10:25am

purplerabbithole

Rita Ora said the green room was his room as well and she knew this because she asked to use a hairdryer and he let her go into his bathroom to use his. Is she part of a conspiracy?? Prince was a complicated and compartmentalized man. Sonetimes he probably allowed people into his personal space with permission and sometimes he probably didn’t. sometimes he lived the glamorous life and sometimes he probably did not. Judith said the green room was his as well.
Reply #108 posted 05/11/18 10:56am

bondno9

purplerabbithole said:

Rita Ora said the green room was his room as well and she knew this because she asked to use a hairdryer and he let her go into his bathroom to use his. Is she part of a conspiracy?? Prince was a complicated and compartmentalized man. Sonetimes he probably allowed people into his personal space with permission and sometimes he probably didn’t. sometimes he lived the glamorous life and sometimes he probably did not. Judith said the green room was his as well.

When did Rita make this statement? Before or after his death?

Reply #109 posted 05/11/18 12:26pm

cloveringold85

bondno9 said:

Kirk is a bald headed untruthful human being!!! The more I re-read his statement mad

.

I don't even know where to begin with Kirk's statements. I just can't believe how a grown man can act this way! We are supposed to believe that he didn't know Prince was addicted to pain pills, when his other associates gave statements that they knew about it? Come on! I got so upset when he went on CBS and when he was asked if Prince was in pain, he replied: "I don't know". disbelief

.

The way they were all behaving on 4/21/16 was shady (Kirk, Meron, Phaedra), and how Andrew described the scene; how horrifying!! It's like Kirk saw Prince's body, laying there and did NOTHING! His first reaction should have been to Call 911!! Is he really this clueless in life? Good God! I would not want him as a friend.

.

After reading Andrew's statements, I feel really bad for him that he was put in that situation. You could tell he was very nervous and was worried about this ruining his career/future. His father should have never sent him to PP. Now, he will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

.

Another thing that upsets me is the fact that Kirk threw away the Rx that Dr. Schulenberg gave to Prince on the 20th, because Prince said they weren't working. Why would you throw them away, in less than 24-hours? That's stupid!

.

[Edited 5/11/18 12:49pm]

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #110 posted 05/11/18 12:31pm

cloveringold85

bondno9 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



They did take fingerprints from items in his house.

However, they didnt take Prince's fingerprints.

But they did complete DNA testing.

And Ps DNA was all over the Bayer and Aleve bottles.

A very poor investigation. No fingerprints from elevator???? Also, a Lt. Eric Kittelson #804 in his incident report dated 4/26 he observed on 4/21 on a nightstand an opened bag of Halls cough drops and a tube of lipstick in a bedroom (soutwest corner of Paisley). He pointed it out to a Sgt Magnuson but the items were not collected for testing eek

.

Also, they did not swab the stain inside the elevator wall, until a few days later. eek

.

Amateur investigators at best. rolleyes

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #111 posted 05/11/18 12:58pm

disch

I don't think dusting the elevator (or anywhere in PP, really) for fingerprints was the issue. Tons of people were in and out of that elevator and other parts of PP regularly so finding their fingerprints wouldnt have told the investigators much I don't think.

-

I think the crime that the investigators would be interested in solving would be from whom/how did prince acquire his illegal pills and since it's likely that supplier didn't even interact with Prince on PP property, I think the supply chain would potentially be uncovered through interviews and searching records (computer, mail, phone etc). Those are the investigative tactics that I could see could maybe be done differently or more of to get at answers, rather than the "CSI"-style stuff.

-

One thing I wish we knew was who deleted his email history, and why. That would be indicative to me of someone specifically trying to conceal something.

bondno9 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



They did take fingerprints from items in his house.

However, they didnt take Prince's fingerprints.

But they did complete DNA testing.

And Ps DNA was all over the Bayer and Aleve bottles.

A very poor investigation. No fingerprints from elevator???? Also, a Lt. Eric Kittelson #804 in his incident report dated 4/26 he observed on 4/21 on a nightstand an opened bag of Halls cough drops and a tube of lipstick in a bedroom (soutwest corner of Paisley). He pointed it out to a Sgt Magnuson but the items were not collected for testing eek

[Edited 5/11/18 13:09pm]

Reply #112 posted 05/11/18 1:33pm

TrcikyChristopher

cloveringold85 said:

bondno9 said:

Kirk is a bald headed untruthful human being!!! The more I re-read his statement mad

.

I don't even know where to begin with Kirk's statements. I just can't believe how a grown man can act this way! We are supposed to believe that he didn't know Prince was addicted to pain pills, when his other associates gave statements that they knew about it? Come on! I got so upset when he went on CBS and when he was asked if Prince was in pain, he replied: "I don't know". disbelief

.

The way they were all behaving on 4/21/16 was shady (Kirk, Meron, Phaedra), and how Andrew described the scene; how horrifying!! It's like Kirk saw Prince's body, laying there and did NOTHING! His first reaction should have been to Call 911!! Is he really this clueless in life? Good God! I would not want him as a friend.

.

After reading Andrew's statements, I feel really bad for him that he was put in that situation. You could tell he was very nervous and was worried about this ruining his career/future. His father should have never sent him to PP. Now, he will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

.

Another thing that upsets me is the fact that Kirk threw away the Rx that Dr. Schulenberg gave to Prince on the 20th, because Prince said they weren't working. Why would you throw them away, in less than 24-hours? That's stupid!

.

[Edited 5/11/18 12:49pm]

Kirk knows a lot more than he's let on - you can take that to the bank. He knows more than a lot of people but will never say anything, maybe out of respect to P, but most likely due to other ulterior motives.

Reply #113 posted 05/11/18 2:32pm

Bodhitheblackdog

TrcikyChristopher said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I don't even know where to begin with Kirk's statements. I just can't believe how a grown man can act this way! We are supposed to believe that he didn't know Prince was addicted to pain pills, when his other associates gave statements that they knew about it? Come on! I got so upset when he went on CBS and when he was asked if Prince was in pain, he replied: "I don't know". disbelief

.

The way they were all behaving on 4/21/16 was shady (Kirk, Meron, Phaedra), and how Andrew described the scene; how horrifying!! It's like Kirk saw Prince's body, laying there and did NOTHING! His first reaction should have been to Call 911!! Is he really this clueless in life? Good God! I would not want him as a friend.

.

After reading Andrew's statements, I feel really bad for him that he was put in that situation. You could tell he was very nervous and was worried about this ruining his career/future. His father should have never sent him to PP. Now, he will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

.

Another thing that upsets me is the fact that Kirk threw away the Rx that Dr. Schulenberg gave to Prince on the 20th, because Prince said they weren't working. Why would you throw them away, in less than 24-hours? That's stupid!

.

[Edited 5/11/18 12:49pm]

Kirk knows a lot more than he's let on - you can take that to the bank. He knows more than a lot of people but will never say anything, maybe out of respect to P, but most likely due to other ulterior motives.

my take is that Kirk and P shared a LOT for a long time...the longest relationship of his life...full stop.

Reply #114 posted 05/11/18 3:55pm

purplerabbithole

Reasonable doubt theories... (trying to prove that less cynical explanations might actually exist...but none of these are in any way confirmable, I admit.Life's nuances are sometimes even more complicated than conspiracies.)

a.) when Michael stated that kirk came back from finding Prince, kirk looked like he was stressed about interrupting P, and then brought Meron back...and then later Michael hearing Meron scream. ---- Here's my reasonable doubt theory. Kirk got a quick glance of P laying on his side in the elevator, thought he was either sleeping, passed out or stoned but wasn't sure. Went back to get Meron, they both got a second closer looker, and he was stiff, no heartbeat, rigor had set in etc...all the tell tale signs of death...Then she screamed. Michael came over (and with his background as a med student, knew right away that Prince was dead. The warmth on his face was strictly from the heat in the building. the stiff arm/no heartbeat was a tell tale sign.) they freaked out for about ten or 20 minutes but realized quickly that a celebrity death will be covered by press, so they cleaned him up by turning his clothes around so that the vomit covered side was not noticeable, crying and upset the whole time.

b.) Prince's computer. Now, if I recall correctly, Prince's lawyer told the investigators that they coud look at P's computer if the lawyer was around to watch them (to double check that only prevalent information was included in their investigation.) the cops refused for whatever reason..came back 5 days later with a search warrant and everything was cleared. Is it possible that the lawyer told folks about how these investigations will be made public and all the private personal info will be exposed to public as a result. Fearing for P's privacy or even information that would P look like a chronic procurer of drugs coming out, they had no time to peruse the gmails for personal non-prevalent gmails, so they just quickly deleted everything.



3.) What people know or don't know about P's drug problem...he may have had an addiction that come and went but nothing quite as bad as it got at the end. In the past..He may have seemed to be taking pills strictly for pain but occassionally overdid it. THerefore, his musicians and casual friends knew but yet thought that since he was not a recreational user and for a while was under doctor supervision (and bcause of his use of less dangerous forms of pain control as well (vitamins, chiropactic table, arm braces etc) , he would do his best to keep it under control and himself as healthy as possible. At one point however, he may have been cut off from the drugs (due to doctor's fears and the long time nature of the need). Then when his health first started to go down hill, maybe some people reasoned that perhaps his health issues and maybe even psychological issues were because of the lack of drugs for relief. In other words, a belief that his dealing with chronic pain minus the drugs had become physically and emotionally difficult and causing mood shifts and isolated behavior. . I say this because Prince was doing sit-down piano tours, stopped playing guitar, and was telling folks that he was going to downsize because he was getting older etc--all behaviors that seem to indicate a man with pain trying to give his body a break.. Maybe this was an initial feeling until his symptoms became too obviously drugs (extreme thinness, cancelled shows, and finally the first overdose.) At some point in 2015, Prince (who did carry his own bags --see St. Bart's pictures and did have cash stashes hidden in his vault etc) decided to ask someone on the road or some "friend" of his out of Europe or from the industry if they had anything for pain and that person gave him 4 or 5 bottles of that scary street shit he started taking. Kirk may not have known entirely what was going on--(knew he had a history but didn't know about the counterfit shit) after all, folks called him a man who got overwhelmed sometimes at his job..and why create a paper trail to yourself for 15 percocet if you were procuring illegal counterfit pills that were much more than 15. Prince kept that man pretty busy and his mood swings could have seemd to him to be for a number of reasons (that is, for a little while until it became painfully obvious he was using again.) . Meron probably knew more than him because she probably bought the enemas.



4.) Judith's girlfriend status...maybe it is true. P was one secretive man. Maybe they wanted it to be a secret between the two of them--thus the reason she went back to L.A the next day. If she stuck around, people would know they were closer than they thought. there are indications that she kept tabs on him from L.A. Not saying she shouldn't have stayed but we don't know all the details. And hte only people who could be totally knowledgable about this stuff are P and herself. She was gone for 2 weeks out of the month so maybe when she was around he tried to stay as clean as possible. There was something said about a lipstick and cough drops in his room. Those were probably hers and used to keep her throat lozenged for singing.



5.) Larry Graham's insenstive statement to Manuela...who knows what he felt when he said. Maybe he was trying to make her feel better (and did the opposite) whilst he was still concerned himself. DOn't know enough about it. I am still inclined to think he is an insensitive dick but who knows?

cloveringold85 said:

bondno9 said:

Kirk is a bald headed untruthful human being!!! The more I re-read his statement mad

.

I don't even know where to begin with Kirk's statements. I just can't believe how a grown man can act this way! We are supposed to believe that he didn't know Prince was addicted to pain pills, when his other associates gave statements that they knew about it? Come on! I got so upset when he went on CBS and when he was asked if Prince was in pain, he replied: "I don't know". disbelief

.

The way they were all behaving on 4/21/16 was shady (Kirk, Meron, Phaedra), and how Andrew described the scene; how horrifying!! It's like Kirk saw Prince's body, laying there and did NOTHING! His first reaction should have been to Call 911!! Is he really this clueless in life? Good God! I would not want him as a friend.

.

After reading Andrew's statements, I feel really bad for him that he was put in that situation. You could tell he was very nervous and was worried about this ruining his career/future. His father should have never sent him to PP. Now, he will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

.

Another thing that upsets me is the fact that Kirk threw away the Rx that Dr. Schulenberg gave to Prince on the 20th, because Prince said they weren't working. Why would you throw them away, in less than 24-hours? That's stupid!

.

[Edited 5/11/18 12:49pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 16:08pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 16:09pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 16:23pm]

Reply #115 posted 05/11/18 5:16pm

PurpleDiamonds1

TrcikyChristopher said:

 



cloveringold85 said:


 



bondno9 said:


Kirk is a bald headed untruthful human being!!! The more I re-read his statement  mad



.


I don't even know where to begin with Kirk's statements.  I just can't believe how a grown man can act this way!  We are supposed to believe that he didn't know Prince was addicted to pain pills, when his other associates gave statements that they knew about it?  Come on!  I got so upset when he went on CBS and when he was asked if Prince was in pain, he replied: "I don't know".   disbelief


.


The way they were all behaving on 4/21/16 was shady (Kirk, Meron, Phaedra), and how Andrew described the scene; how horrifying!!  It's like Kirk saw Prince's body, laying there and did NOTHING!  His first reaction should have been to Call 911!!  Is he really this clueless in life?  Good God!  I would not want him as a friend. 


.


After reading Andrew's statements, I feel really bad for him that he was put in that situation.  You could tell he was very nervous and was worried about this ruining his career/future.  His father should have never sent him to PP.  Now, he will have to live with this for the rest of his life.


.


Another thing that upsets me is the fact that Kirk threw away the Rx that Dr. Schulenberg gave to Prince on the 20th, because Prince said they weren't working.  Why would you throw them away, in less than 24-hours?  That's stupid! 


.


 


 


[Edited 5/11/18 12:49pm]



Kirk knows a lot more than he's let on - you can take that to the bank. He knows more than a lot of people but will never say anything, maybe out of respect to P, but most likely due to other ulterior motives.



Agree...he and the others that were there that day...
Reply #116 posted 05/11/18 6:04pm

fortuneandserendipity

Bodhitheblackdog said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

Kirk knows a lot more than he's let on - you can take that to the bank. He knows more than a lot of people but will never say anything, maybe out of respect to P, but most likely due to other ulterior motives.

my take is that Kirk and P shared a LOT for a long time...the longest relationship of his life...full stop.

Yes. It all began with that funny dancing in Purple Rain...


Speaking of relationships P had two going on at the same time when he clocked out.


Prince also kept many secrets. One secret was not telling Dr Schulenberg "Hey Doc, you don't need to prescribe me Vitamin D. I'm already taking it!" smile

Reply #117 posted 05/11/18 7:05pm

Strawberrylova123

People think his opiate use was some deep dark secret but really it wasn't, it was mentioned in the Alex han book years ago
Reply #118 posted 05/11/18 7:25pm

Bodhitheblackdog

Strawberrylova123 said:

People think his opiate use was some deep dark secret but really it wasn't, it was mentioned in the Alex han book years ago

could you please elaborate a little?

Reply #119 posted 05/11/18 7:37pm

Strawberrylova123

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



Strawberrylova123 said:


People think his opiate use was some deep dark secret but really it wasn't, it was mentioned in the Alex han book years ago

could you please elaborate a little? 


Alex Hahns book " possessed" came out around 2002 and it mentions the 1996 overdose incident before maytes book came out, he said an associate told him that prince was taking opiates during the diamonds and pearls era and was writing scripts under his girlfriend's name in the past. Also in the book it was stated that prince was showing erratic behavior due to him taking Percocet during 2001. My point is that many knew they just chose to ignore it
[Edited 5/11/18 19:38pm]
Reply #120 posted 05/11/18 7:42pm

Bodhitheblackdog

Strawberrylova123 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

could you please elaborate a little?

Alex Hahns book " possessed" came out around 2002 and it mentions the 1996 overdose incident before maytes book came out, he said an associate told him that prince was taking opiates during the diamonds and pearls era and was writing scripts under his girlfriend's name in the past. Also in the book it was stated that prince was showing erratic behavior due to him taking Percocet during 2001. My point is that many knew they just chose to ignore it [Edited 5/11/18 19:38pm]

Thanks!I wonder why more Org. members don't reference this info from a book that's widely respected here? This info provides valuable context to his struggles with addiction.

Reply #121 posted 05/11/18 8:02pm

Strawberrylova123

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



Strawberrylova123 said:


Bodhitheblackdog said:

 


could you please elaborate a little? 



Alex Hahns book " possessed" came out around 2002 and it mentions the 1996 overdose incident before maytes book came out, he said an associate told him that prince was taking opiates during the diamonds and pearls era and was writing scripts under his girlfriend's name in the past. Also in the book it was stated that prince was showing erratic behavior due to him taking Percocet during 2001. My point is that many knew they just chose to ignore it [Edited 5/11/18 19:38pm]

Thanks!I wonder why more Org. members don't reference this info from a book that's widely respected here? This info provides valuable context to his struggles with addiction.


Yes this info is out there, i have both books
Reply #122 posted 05/11/18 8:06pm

purplerabbithole

Is that the only associate mentioned in Hahn's book who referenced opiods? Was he or she anonymous? Did he or she mention what everyone else knew or didn't know? Which girlfriend was it? And are 2001,the incident Mayte referenced, and Diamonds and Pearls the only times associates (anoymously) mentioned drug usage in that book? I am not doubting that these things happened. I am just trying to gauge whether everyone thought P's problem was constant and consistent. If you believe Mayte, during her time, it didn't seem to be all the time but he did certiainly have loopy eratic behavior at times. She seemed unable to pin down his behavior at times to a particular use of drugs. How do we know that most folks werent' kind of in the same boat as her? Confused, suspecting at times, experiencing a few incidents and promises to stop, conflicted, and kept somewhat in the dark?Compartmentalized and secretive man that he was.

Strawberrylova123 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

could you please elaborate a little?

Alex Hahns book " possessed" came out around 2002 and it mentions the 1996 overdose incident before maytes book came out, he said an associate told him that prince was taking opiates during the diamonds and pearls era and was writing scripts under his girlfriend's name in the past. Also in the book it was stated that prince was showing erratic behavior due to him taking Percocet during 2001. My point is that many knew they just chose to ignore it [Edited 5/11/18 19:38pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 20:25pm]

Reply #123 posted 05/11/18 8:25pm

Strawberrylova123

purplerabbithole said:

Is that the only associate mentioned in Hahn's book who referenced opiods? Was he or she anonymous? Did he or she mention what everyone else knew or didn't know? Which girlfriend was it? And are 2001,the incident Mayte referenced, and Diamonds and Pearls the only times associates (anoymously) mentioned drug usage in that book? I am not doubting that these things happened. I am just trying to gauge whether everyone thought P's problem was constant and consistent. If you believe Mayte, during her time, it didn't seem to be all the time but he did certiainly have loopy eratic behavior at times. She seemed unable to pin down his behavior at times to a particular use of drugs.  How do we know that most folks werent' kind of in the same boat as her?  Confused, suspecting at times, experiencing a few incidents and promises to stop, conflicted, and kept somewhat in the dark?Compartmentalized man that he was. 


 


 


 



Strawberrylova123 said:


Bodhitheblackdog said:

 


could you please elaborate a little? 



Alex Hahns book " possessed" came out around 2002 and it mentions the 1996 overdose incident before maytes book came out, he said an associate told him that prince was taking opiates during the diamonds and pearls era and was writing scripts under his girlfriend's name in the past. Also in the book it was stated that prince was showing erratic behavior due to him taking Percocet during 2001. My point is that many knew they just chose to ignore it [Edited 5/11/18 19:38pm]

 


 


[Edited 5/11/18 20:16pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 20:18pm]


The 1996 incident didnt come from mayte in the book, the 2002 incident regarding him being hooked on perc was from a paisley park employees and it was bobby z and questlove and D Angelo that talked about prince's erratic behavior around 2002. The D&P was from a band member during that time but he stayed anonymous.the girlfriends stayed anonymous because due to legal issues
Reply #124 posted 05/11/18 8:32pm

purplerabbithole

I am not trying to be annoying here. But I think it is important to look at the nuances here and not make sweeping simplistic generalization about 100's of people who knew him and worked with for 30 years. To clarify, I am not saying that Mayte was the first one to mention the overdose in 96. I am saying that she recently talked about it again. Did Bobby Z, Questlove, and D'Angelo definitely state that they knew the reason for his eratic behavior? The anonymous band member could have been someone who had a bit of a more direct inside look (in other words the person who got him the percocet in the first place.) The way I see it..PRince's several different personalities might make it a bit difficult to know if it was just his own demons or drugs causing particular behaviors. I just doubt he was popping pills in front of his bandmates. I also doubt he could have lived to the ripe old age of 57 as a consistent user who made people sign NDA's while openly and clearly taking drugs in front of them on a consistent basis? Unless you see someone directly taking pills in front of you, how do you confront that person especially if you have only known the man for two years and are just getting to know his ways for example. I want to ask one more thing--do you believe that mystery drug dealer who stated in April 26, 2016 that PRince had a secret addiction to fentanyl for years due to social anxiety and stage fright? To be honest, there are times I do believe it. But that doesn't make it less confusing for those around him especially those who see a man who is constantly working and leading a band. I can't wrap my head around a man being as productive and prolific for that long and being doped up most of the time while doing it. I am inclined to think that when he was experiencing more pain physically and emotionally, he (privately as possible) delved back into that shit, causing his behavior to become eratic (but since he was a compartmentized, eratic, and secretive man to begin with, it made it difficult at times to know what Prince you were dealing with. and then he kicked it for a while or found alternative ways to deal with pain (music etc)


Sorry about the constant edits..but I have lots of thoughts floating around... here are my suspicions.\

--there are people who knew and ignored it because they either didn't care, were users themselves or desperate to keep their jobs.

--there are people who knew but tried to help him in indirect ways (by offering support and hinting at his problem) because they both wanted to keep their jobs and knew that being excised out of his circle would make them completely powerless to help him in anyway.

--there were those who faciliated his usage

--there were people who confronted him directly and either got the run-around or fired if the subject was pushed too directly or hardly.

--there were girlfriends and wives who started to suspect or knew and confronted him and then he slowly excised them out of his life.

--there were newbies who had no idea because they were too young and hadn't known what he was like before.

--there were those who knew or suspected he was on something but knew he wouldn't listen so left to avoid enabling (maybe Sheila ).

--there were those who came in and out of his circle according to whether he seemed clean or not clean (someone like John Blackwell)

--there were those who didn't know bcause they were long distance friends (pen pals, celebrity pals etc.)

--there were those who suspected or heard rumors but didn't feel they had the power or proof to say anything about it (at most "Are you feeling okay?)

--there were those who he suspected were figuring it out, so he released them first.

Strawberrylova123 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Is that the only associate mentioned in Hahn's book who referenced opiods? Was he or she anonymous? Did he or she mention what everyone else knew or didn't know? Which girlfriend was it? And are 2001,the incident Mayte referenced, and Diamonds and Pearls the only times associates (anoymously) mentioned drug usage in that book? I am not doubting that these things happened. I am just trying to gauge whether everyone thought P's problem was constant and consistent. If you believe Mayte, during her time, it didn't seem to be all the time but he did certiainly have loopy eratic behavior at times. She seemed unable to pin down his behavior at times to a particular use of drugs. How do we know that most folks werent' kind of in the same boat as her? Confused, suspecting at times, experiencing a few incidents and promises to stop, conflicted, and kept somewhat in the dark?Compartmentalized man that he was.

[Edited 5/11/18 20:16pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 20:18pm]

The 1996 incident didnt come from mayte in the book, the 2002 incident regarding him being hooked on perc was from a paisley park employees and it was bobby z and questlove and D Angelo that talked about prince's erratic behavior around 2002. The D&P was from a band member during that time but he stayed anonymous.the girlfriends stayed anonymous because due to legal issues

[Edited 5/11/18 21:25pm]

Reply #125 posted 05/11/18 9:27pm

Krystalkisses

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.

Reply #126 posted 05/11/18 9:44pm

purplerabbithole

I don't know how anyone can be a fan of Prince and believe her story. Its too inconsistently told and fantastical. His eyes are rolling back in his head? He worships satan? Items are mysterious and magically flying across the room. Arsenio was his drug dealer but yet when he threatened to sue, her family approached him and asked him to drop the suite due to her being sick. I have a relative who is bipolar and she recently had a psychotic episode (which resulted in time spent in a mental hospital) and they do imagine some crazy shit sometimes. If you believed what she had to say, people were trying to kill her with a forklift at her job,somebody was in her house that night and her husband was trying to kill her. Just because Prince had a lot of problems, doesn't mean we should believe all stories about him. Mayte knew him when Sinead met PRince. She denies it and I believe her.

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.

[Edited 5/11/18 21:45pm]

Reply #127 posted 05/11/18 9:50pm

Krystalkisses

Well, that's cool if you do but I'm saying I'm questioning everything now. That has no bearing on how much I love his art and music. I'm just trying to reconcile my "image" of who Prince was growing up to the possible "reality".

purplerabbithole said:

I don't know how anyone can be a fan of Prince and believe her story. Its too inconsistently told and fantastical. His eyes are rolling back in his head? He worships satan? Items are mysterious and magically flying across the room. Arsenio was his drug dealer but yet when he threatened to sue, her family approached him and asked him to drop the suite due to her being sick. I have a relative who is bipolar and she recently had a psychotic episode (which resulted in time spent in a mental hospital) and they do imagine some crazy shit sometimes. If you believed what she had to say, people were trying to kill her with a forklift at her job,somebody was in her house that night and her husband was trying to kill her. Just because Prince had a lot of problems, doesn't mean we should believe all stories about him. Mayte knew him when Sinead met PRince. She denies it and I believe her.

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.

[Edited 5/11/18 21:45pm]

Reply #128 posted 05/11/18 9:57pm

purplerabbithole

I am questioning things too. but I try to do so while reconciling the contradictions not disbelieving every positive statement made about him after he died (like some I suspect are) and immediately believing the worst stories. Jill JOnes can say some crazy shit but even she said that Prince didn't try to run over MJ with a car. I think someone would have said something if P tried to do that (other than a cheeky and compettive MJ) and I think MJ would avoid working with him due to fear for his life (which we know did not happen). The MJ/car story and the Sinead story lack plausibility IMO (for many reason beyond what associates say) so I don't take them seriously. Now what you said about sheena Easton does make me pause and think. From what I gather, when Sinead met P in Paisley, it didn't go over well and he may have sent her packing by dropping her off in the middle of Minneapolis. She stated this first (I believe) in a press conference immediately afterwards. This might have caused a panic attack or break. She (then in later interviews) tells people he tried to punch her and she ran to a neighbors to get away (does paisley have neighbors). I think you can hide pill popping behind eccentricity. I don't think you can hide beating up a pop star. Then the story gets crazier as she tells it through the years. She says that he also locked in her a room, beat up Wendy (that's a new part that makes no sense and is extremely unlikely considering that Wendy wasn't always a part of his life or playing his music and never signed a NDA). Now he has eyes going white, things flying in the room, a famous comedian as a drug dealer. She also stated two years ago right after he died that women would be coming forward> where are they? NOt plausible.

Krystalkisses said:

Well, that's cool if you do but I'm saying I'm questioning everything now. That has no bearing on how much I love his art and music. I'm just trying to reconcile my "image" of who Prince was growing up to the possible "reality".

purplerabbithole said:

I don't know how anyone can be a fan of Prince and believe her story. Its too inconsistently told and fantastical. His eyes are rolling back in his head? He worships satan? Items are mysterious and magically flying across the room. Arsenio was his drug dealer but yet when he threatened to sue, her family approached him and asked him to drop the suite due to her being sick. I have a relative who is bipolar and she recently had a psychotic episode (which resulted in time spent in a mental hospital) and they do imagine some crazy shit sometimes. If you believed what she had to say, people were trying to kill her with a forklift at her job,somebody was in her house that night and her husband was trying to kill her. Just because Prince had a lot of problems, doesn't mean we should believe all stories about him. Mayte knew him when Sinead met PRince. She denies it and I believe her.

[Edited 5/11/18 21:45pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 22:10pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 22:13pm]

Reply #129 posted 05/11/18 10:27pm

Krystalkisses

purplerabbithole said:

I am questioning things too. but I try to do so while reconciling the contradictions not disbelieving every positive statement made about him after he died (like some I suspect are) and immediately believing the worst stories. Jill JOnes can say some crazy shit but even she said that Prince didn't try to run over MJ with a car. I think someone would have said something if P tried to do that (other than a cheeky and compettive MJ) and I think MJ would avoid working with him due to fear for his life (which we know did not happen). The MJ/car story and the Sinead story lack plausibility IMO (for many reason beyond what associates say) so I don't take them seriously. Now what you said about sheena Easton does make me pause and think. From what I gather, when Sinead met P in Paisley, it didn't go over well and he may have sent her packing by dropping her off in the middle of Minneapolis. She stated this first (I believe) in a press conference immediately afterwards. This might have caused a panic attack or break. She (then in later interviews) tells people he tried to punch her and she ran to a neighbors to get away (does paisley have neighbors). I think you can hide pill popping behind eccentricity. I don't think you can hide beating up a pop star. Then the story gets crazier as she tells it through the years. She says that he also locked in her a room, beat up Wendy (that's a new part that makes no sense and is extremely unlikely considering that Wendy wasn't always a part of his life or playing his music and never signed a NDA). Now he has eyes going white, things flying in the room, a famous comedian as a drug dealer. She also stated two years ago right after he died that women would be coming forward> where are they? NOt plausible.

Krystalkisses said:

Well, that's cool if you do but I'm saying I'm questioning everything now. That has no bearing on how much I love his art and music. I'm just trying to reconcile my "image" of who Prince was growing up to the possible "reality".

[Edited 5/11/18 22:10pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 22:13pm]

Well I suppose lots of Prince fans would agree with you and don't find Sinead crediable. I however think Prince had many sides to himself and compartmentalized many people in his life including us fans. I read in Alex Hahn's updated book that a childhood friend observed that Prince learned how to manipulate early in his life , especially any authority figure. I think that is a survival mechanism he picked up in a chaotic enviroment and it served him well all thoughout his life. Maybe Sinead triggered something in him and he lashed out or maybe he really was under the influence of something. All of it only has be asking who was the real Prince?????

Reply #130 posted 05/11/18 10:34pm

PeteSilas

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said: Alex Hahns book " possessed" came out around 2002 and it mentions the 1996 overdose incident before maytes book came out, he said an associate told him that prince was taking opiates during the diamonds and pearls era and was writing scripts under his girlfriend's name in the past. Also in the book it was stated that prince was showing erratic behavior due to him taking Percocet during 2001. My point is that many knew they just chose to ignore it [Edited 5/11/18 19:38pm]

Thanks!I wonder why more Org. members don't reference this info from a book that's widely respected here? This info provides valuable context to his struggles with addiction.

that book wasn't credible, check the old reviews on here, the author had an axe to grind and there were enough typos in it, which were really not that big a deal but enough to make you question everything else in it.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #131 posted 05/11/18 10:38pm

purplerabbithole

My skeptism of her story goes beyond a basic belief that he wasn't a violent man. I look at her behaviors when it comes to this ever-changing story and her mental illness. Do you know there was even a point when she stated that that bad stories about him were exagerrated. She is not a good credible source, period.

Krystalkisses said:

purplerabbithole said:

I am questioning things too. but I try to do so while reconciling the contradictions not disbelieving every positive statement made about him after he died (like some I suspect are) and immediately believing the worst stories. Jill JOnes can say some crazy shit but even she said that Prince didn't try to run over MJ with a car. I think someone would have said something if P tried to do that (other than a cheeky and compettive MJ) and I think MJ would avoid working with him due to fear for his life (which we know did not happen). The MJ/car story and the Sinead story lack plausibility IMO (for many reason beyond what associates say) so I don't take them seriously. Now what you said about sheena Easton does make me pause and think. From what I gather, when Sinead met P in Paisley, it didn't go over well and he may have sent her packing by dropping her off in the middle of Minneapolis. She stated this first (I believe) in a press conference immediately afterwards. This might have caused a panic attack or break. She (then in later interviews) tells people he tried to punch her and she ran to a neighbors to get away (does paisley have neighbors). I think you can hide pill popping behind eccentricity. I don't think you can hide beating up a pop star. Then the story gets crazier as she tells it through the years. She says that he also locked in her a room, beat up Wendy (that's a new part that makes no sense and is extremely unlikely considering that Wendy wasn't always a part of his life or playing his music and never signed a NDA). Now he has eyes going white, things flying in the room, a famous comedian as a drug dealer. She also stated two years ago right after he died that women would be coming forward> where are they? NOt plausible.

[Edited 5/11/18 22:10pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 22:13pm]

Well I suppose lots of Prince fans would agree with you and don't find Sinead crediable. I however think Prince had many sides to himself and compartmentalized many people in his life including us fans. I read in Alex Hahn's updated book that a childhood friend observed that Prince learned how to manipulate early in his life , especially any authority figure. I think that is a survival mechanism he picked up in a chaotic enviroment and it served him well all thoughout his life. Maybe Sinead triggered something in him and he lashed out or maybe he really was under the influence of something. All of it only has be asking who was the real Prince?????

Reply #132 posted 05/11/18 10:40pm

PeteSilas

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.

come on, sinead is such a headcase that anything she says is questionable. she said Prince made things float around with his magic, you believe that too? the xcstasy story for susan has been out there since the late eighties and sounds believable but at that time we didn't here about those kinds of things too often.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #133 posted 05/11/18 10:45pm

purplerabbithole

Most of the folks on this thread who talk only about his death and his wrongdoings where Mayte was concerned (and ignore the more positive aspects of his life--like the bonding moments and prolific work output) believe that book, so unfortunately they are going to defend it. i see it this way. If you have an axe to grind, you might not lie but you tend to cherry pick the hell out of things. I imagine he told half the story (and it wasnt the amusing or funny moments) . Alan Leeds contributed to the book and even though he wasn't too upset about the book: he did contend that the intrepretation set forth in that book wasn't exactly how he saw Prince. In other words, he probably meant it was agenda based and limited in its perspective.

It sounds like the newer version is bit more well-rounded and sympathetic however (at least during the part of his life it covered.)

PeteSilas said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Thanks!I wonder why more Org. members don't reference this info from a book that's widely respected here? This info provides valuable context to his struggles with addiction.

that book wasn't credible, check the old reviews on here, the author had an axe to grind and there were enough typos in it, which were really not that big a deal but enough to make you question everything else in it.

Reply #134 posted 05/11/18 10:48pm

purplerabbithole

Thank you. I guess because sometimes he didn't give credit to contributors, we should believe that he didnt really write any of his songs too. LOL> Folks are disillusioned so they are jumping from A to Z. I am not sure why they are that disillusioned. Its not like Prince wasn't a bit of an oddball mixed-bag image-wise..LOL.

PeteSilas said:

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.

come on, sinead is such a headcase that anything she says is questionable. she said Prince made things float around with his magic, you believe that too? the xcstasy story for susan has been out there since the late eighties and sounds believable but at that time we didn't here about those kinds of things too often.

Reply #135 posted 05/12/18 12:00am

PeteSilas

for those not in the know, alex hahn had some grudge against prince for being forced to shutdown his fanzine. Anything he wrote could be taken with a grain of salt really, and there wasn't really a whole lot that hadn't been covered in earlier bios. hahn was also one of the early ones to release a book post death, he also came on here when prince had his triumphant comeback with musicology, trying to drum up interest in his book along with renewed interest with prince, but I told him, the premise of his whole book was that prince was a has been and that he had no business trying to sell his book after he's being proved wrong. all you gotta do is use the search function, not an honest guy. he also got shouted down on here after p's death, he went on Michael Dean's podcast full of more drama that we "scared" him. My post is probably still there on the page, i told him nobody has time to come do anything to his worthless ass.

purplerabbithole said:

Most of the folks on this thread who talk only about his death and his wrongdoings where Mayte was concerned (and ignore the more positive aspects of his life--like the bonding moments and prolific work output) believe that book, so unfortunately they are going to defend it. i see it this way. If you have an axe to grind, you might not lie but you tend to cherry pick the hell out of things. I imagine he told half the story (and it wasnt the amusing or funny moments) . Alan Leeds contributed to the book and even though he wasn't too upset about the book: he did contend that the intrepretation set forth in that book wasn't exactly how he saw Prince. In other words, he probably meant it was agenda based and limited in its perspective.

It sounds like the newer version is bit more well-rounded and sympathetic however (at least during the part of his life it covered.)

PeteSilas said:

that book wasn't credible, check the old reviews on here, the author had an axe to grind and there were enough typos in it, which were really not that big a deal but enough to make you question everything else in it.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #136 posted 05/12/18 2:21am

MMJas

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Krystalkisses said:

wow. Yes I think he was ill equipt to actually even feel his feelings. As so many addicts are, even so many everyday people do this with all kinds of vices. But I can imagine long term opiate use really numbs your emotions it proably very scary and daunting for him to imagine part of the recovery process is breaking down your ego and actually processing emotion again.

I think this is a brilliant and quite origional observation, KK, a big contribution to the conversation. It is SO TRUE that addicts become emotionally numb either intentionally (drugging to dull emotional pain) or as a side-effect of the drug use. After years of use..HOW CAN ONE KNOW HOW to feel and process authentic emotion??? As challenging as is the thought of rehab for physical withdrawel...imagine the fears associated with the NECESSARY ACCOMPANYING THERAPY to insure that the addict can function as a HUMAN BEING once again. At that point in his life, I don't think Prince had the strength and focus necessary to go down that path...I think he wanted to crawl into Gods' lap and rest in peace.

The other day I had to take my daughter to the hospital and as we waited for her to be examined, it occurred to me that fear might have played a huge part in all this. Imagine Prince, after years of controlling absolutely every single detail of his life (and even other peoples'), all of a sudden found himself in the midst of something he was no longer controlling and about to hand his life and body to the expertise of another. To surrender. To expose himself and his weaknesses. To not know what was coming next. That fear alone could have driven him to desperate measures.
My grandad died of lung cancer. He had been a heavy smoker all his life. One day he got a fever and a bad cold he could not shake. The day the doctor told him he had lung cancer, my grandad, a heavy smoker for over 50 years, immediately put his cigarretes to the side and vowed never to smoke again. He cried like a baby and did not even feel the need to smoke, which, as those of you who smoke surely know, it's pretty hard to do. The fear of dying made him give up everything that was doing him harm, right on the spot.
Prince, on the other hand, facing rehab the following day and most likely a cure for his problems, decided to be alone and take a fatal dose of fentanyl.

Reply #137 posted 05/12/18 5:29am

fortuneandserendipity

PeteSilas said:

for those not in the know, alex hahn had some grudge against prince for being forced to shutdown his fanzine. Anything he wrote could be taken with a grain of salt really, and there wasn't really a whole lot that hadn't been covered in earlier bios. hahn was also one of the early ones to release a book post death, he also came on here when prince had his triumphant comeback with musicology, trying to drum up interest in his book along with renewed interest with prince, but I told him, the premise of his whole book was that prince was a has been and that he had no business trying to sell his book after he's being proved wrong. all you gotta do is use the search function, not an honest guy. he also got shouted down on here after p's death, he went on Michael Dean's podcast full of more drama that we "scared" him. My post is probably still there on the page, i told him nobody has time to come do anything to his worthless ass.

purplerabbithole said:

Most of the folks on this thread who talk only about his death and his wrongdoings where Mayte was concerned (and ignore the more positive aspects of his life--like the bonding moments and prolific work output) believe that book, so unfortunately they are going to defend it. i see it this way. If you have an axe to grind, you might not lie but you tend to cherry pick the hell out of things. I imagine he told half the story (and it wasnt the amusing or funny moments) . Alan Leeds contributed to the book and even though he wasn't too upset about the book: he did contend that the intrepretation set forth in that book wasn't exactly how he saw Prince. In other words, he probably meant it was agenda based and limited in its perspective.

It sounds like the newer version is bit more well-rounded and sympathetic however (at least during the part of his life it covered.)

Ah now there was a hater wink. I wonder if Hahn sourced any Bart quotes for his material?

Reply #138 posted 05/12/18 7:39am

PennyPurple

PeteSilas said:

for those not in the know, alex hahn had some grudge against prince for being forced to shutdown his fanzine. Anything he wrote could be taken with a grain of salt really, and there wasn't really a whole lot that hadn't been covered in earlier bios. hahn was also one of the early ones to release a book post death, he also came on here when prince had his triumphant comeback with musicology, trying to drum up interest in his book along with renewed interest with prince, but I told him, the premise of his whole book was that prince was a has been and that he had no business trying to sell his book after he's being proved wrong. all you gotta do is use the search function, not an honest guy. he also got shouted down on here after p's death, he went on Michael Dean's podcast full of more drama that we "scared" him. My post is probably still there on the page, i told him nobody has time to come do anything to his worthless ass.

Laura Richardson used to say that Hahn got most of his info from people on this board. If you notice in the credits of the book there are some org members mentioned.


When I did the book club, he and Laura T. were cooperative at 1st, then towards the end, Hahn told me he wouldn't answer any questions and was basically done with it.


There were several things Hahn got wrong and when questioned about it, he didn't want to talk.

Reply #139 posted 05/12/18 9:27am

laytonian

bondno9 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Rita Ora said the green room was his room as well and she knew this because she asked to use a hairdryer and he let her go into his bathroom to use his. Is she part of a conspiracy?? Prince was a complicated and compartmentalized man. Sonetimes he probably allowed people into his personal space with permission and sometimes he probably didn’t. sometimes he lived the glamorous life and sometimes he probably did not. Judith said the green room was his as well.

When did Rita make this statement? Before or after his death?

.

Hasn't EVERYONE read that great GQ interview article YET? I've posted the link here several times (sigh). December 2016 issue with EVEN MORE in the online edition: https://www.gq.com/story/prince-stories

About that green bedroom.

It makes perfect sense if you all THINK.
First of all, this is a man who went to bed about 5am and got up at 11-12 noon.
Look at those two fancy bedrooms: huge windows and fancy bedding that would be all messy if you slept in it (and you didn't have full-time help to make your bed).
The green bedroom had no windows to the outside, which meant it would be dark. It also was simple, so he could just get up and leave without worrying about fixing all the fancy crap.
The green bedroom actually looks a bit like mine: FUNCTIONAL. I don't make my bed, either, unless there's company coming. Why should I be bound by silly rules like "make your bed" when there are only two of us here?

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
Reply #140 posted 05/12/18 9:38am

laytonian

purplerabbithole said:

"There was something said about a lipstick and cough drops in his room. Those were probably hers and used to keep her throat lozenged for singing."

.

The lipstick: It would be Prince's. He used lipstick and lip balms generously. Who DOESN'T have something like that on their nightstand?
This is why my bedroom looks more like P's little green room than those overblown fancy "guest" apartments at PP: functionality. lol lol lol lol lol

.

(gentle snippage because it's NOT necessary to quote 72.5 paragraphs!)

.


Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
Reply #141 posted 05/12/18 9:39am

MMJas

laytonian said:

bondno9 said:

When did Rita make this statement? Before or after his death?

.

Hasn't EVERYONE read that great GQ interview article YET? I've posted the link here several times (sigh). December 2016 issue with EVEN MORE in the online edition: https://www.gq.com/story/prince-stories

About that green bedroom.

It makes perfect sense if you all THINK.
First of all, this is a man who went to bed about 5am and got up at 11-12 noon.
Look at those two fancy bedrooms: huge windows and fancy bedding that would be all messy if you slept in it (and you didn't have full-time help to make your bed).
The green bedroom had no windows to the outside, which meant it would be dark. It also was simple, so he could just get up and leave without worrying about fixing all the fancy crap.
The green bedroom actually looks a bit like mine: FUNCTIONAL. I don't make my bed, either, unless there's company coming. Why should I be bound by silly rules like "make your bed" when there are only two of us here?

Was the no windows rule so he could sleep better, with no light, or was it for privacy? I found it strange that he would put that huge piece of furniture right in front of the window, in his bathroom.

Reply #142 posted 05/12/18 9:48am

laytonian

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back.

You have that all wrong.

They stopped at a restaurant, not a "spooky" house.

The "dark house" thing happened later after he dropped her back off at the hotel.
It was in Laurel Canyon and I always figured it was Joni's house -- which is a total wreck of a place in Laurel Canyon.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/...-date.html

.

As for his drug use: WATCH HIM PERFORM. If you don't think that tiny body was already a wreck after the Purple Rain tour, you're not paying attention. That "pimp walk" was his left hip breaking down.

.

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
Reply #143 posted 05/12/18 9:50am

laytonian

MMJas said:

Was the no windows rule so he could sleep better, with no light, or was it for privacy? I found it strange that he would put that huge piece of furniture right in front of the window, in his bathroom.

.

It's WELL-KNOWN that he had the windows in hotels covered with aluminum foil to darken the rooms so he could sleep.

[Edited 5/12/18 9:51am]

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
Reply #144 posted 05/12/18 10:01am

MMJas

laytonian said:

MMJas said:

Was the no windows rule so he could sleep better, with no light, or was it for privacy? I found it strange that he would put that huge piece of furniture right in front of the window, in his bathroom.

.

It's WELL-KNOWN that he had the windows in hotels covered with aluminum foil to darken the rooms so he could sleep.

[Edited 5/12/18 9:51am]

I know. Can you look beyond that, please? What I'm trying to say is that the piece of furniture in his bathroom seems to be for privacy purposes and was wondering whether there was a bit of privacy reasons in that as well, like Prince not wanting to be seen/photographed sleeping/showering/bathing.

Reply #145 posted 05/12/18 11:26am

PeteSilas

well there ya go.

PennyPurple said:

PeteSilas said:

for those not in the know, alex hahn had some grudge against prince for being forced to shutdown his fanzine. Anything he wrote could be taken with a grain of salt really, and there wasn't really a whole lot that hadn't been covered in earlier bios. hahn was also one of the early ones to release a book post death, he also came on here when prince had his triumphant comeback with musicology, trying to drum up interest in his book along with renewed interest with prince, but I told him, the premise of his whole book was that prince was a has been and that he had no business trying to sell his book after he's being proved wrong. all you gotta do is use the search function, not an honest guy. he also got shouted down on here after p's death, he went on Michael Dean's podcast full of more drama that we "scared" him. My post is probably still there on the page, i told him nobody has time to come do anything to his worthless ass.

Laura Richardson used to say that Hahn got most of his info from people on this board. If you notice in the credits of the book there are some org members mentioned.


When I did the book club, he and Laura T. were cooperative at 1st, then towards the end, Hahn told me he wouldn't answer any questions and was basically done with it.


There were several things Hahn got wrong and when questioned about it, he didn't want to talk.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #146 posted 05/12/18 11:30am

PeteSilas

laytonian said:

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back.

You have that all wrong.

They stopped at a restaurant, not a "spooky" house.

The "dark house" thing happened later after he dropped her back off at the hotel.
It was in Laurel Canyon and I always figured it was Joni's house -- which is a total wreck of a place in Laurel Canyon.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/...-date.html

.

As for his drug use: WATCH HIM PERFORM. If you don't think that tiny body was already a wreck after the Purple Rain tour, you're not paying attention. That "pimp walk" was his left hip breaking down.

.

think so? after purple rain huh? I don't know, he went on to perform like that for years but maybe.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #147 posted 05/12/18 11:45am

cloveringold85

TrcikyChristopher said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I don't even know where to begin with Kirk's statements. I just can't believe how a grown man can act this way! We are supposed to believe that he didn't know Prince was addicted to pain pills, when his other associates gave statements that they knew about it? Come on! I got so upset when he went on CBS and when he was asked if Prince was in pain, he replied: "I don't know". disbelief

.

The way they were all behaving on 4/21/16 was shady (Kirk, Meron, Phaedra), and how Andrew described the scene; how horrifying!! It's like Kirk saw Prince's body, laying there and did NOTHING! His first reaction should have been to Call 911!! Is he really this clueless in life? Good God! I would not want him as a friend.

.

After reading Andrew's statements, I feel really bad for him that he was put in that situation. You could tell he was very nervous and was worried about this ruining his career/future. His father should have never sent him to PP. Now, he will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

.

Another thing that upsets me is the fact that Kirk threw away the Rx that Dr. Schulenberg gave to Prince on the 20th, because Prince said they weren't working. Why would you throw them away, in less than 24-hours? That's stupid!

.

[Edited 5/11/18 12:49pm]

Kirk knows a lot more than he's let on - you can take that to the bank. He knows more than a lot of people but will never say anything, maybe out of respect to P, but most likely due to other ulterior motives.

.

You got that right! nod

.

The statements that Judith and Kirk gave just do not add up, per the investigation transcripts.

.

Judith paints a picture of Prince being depressed. I think she took his comments the wrong way. When he told her "This summer, if I'm not there--will you still be there?" -- He could have been referring to the possibility that he might have other obligations and might not be able to go; I don't think he was telling her that he was dying, imo.

.

Judith also stated that Tyka told her that she knew for 2-years that Prince was dying. Now, any rational person would have asked Tyka to clarify what she said. It just irritates me that the investigators did not push for more answers.

.

Also, if Prince was in fact making these odd statements to Judith in Atlanta, WHY didn't she question him? Who lets their friend talk that way and not ask them what they mean or what's going on??!! eek

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #148 posted 05/12/18 11:54am

cloveringold85

purplerabbithole said:

Reasonable doubt theories... (trying to prove that less cynical explanations might actually exist...but none of these are in any way confirmable, I admit.Life's nuances are sometimes even more complicated than conspiracies.)

a.) when Michael stated that kirk came back from finding Prince, kirk looked like he was stressed about interrupting P, and then brought Meron back...and then later Michael hearing Meron scream. ---- Here's my reasonable doubt theory. Kirk got a quick glance of P laying on his side in the elevator, thought he was either sleeping, passed out or stoned but wasn't sure. Went back to get Meron, they both got a second closer looker, and he was stiff, no heartbeat, rigor had set in etc...all the tell tale signs of death...Then she screamed. Michael came over (and with his background as a med student, knew right away that Prince was dead. The warmth on his face was strictly from the heat in the building. the stiff arm/no heartbeat was a tell tale sign.) they freaked out for about ten or 20 minutes but realized quickly that a celebrity death will be covered by press, so they cleaned him up by turning his clothes around so that the vomit covered side was not noticeable, crying and upset the whole time.

b.) Prince's computer. Now, if I recall correctly, Prince's lawyer told the investigators that they coud look at P's computer if the lawyer was around to watch them (to double check that only prevalent information was included in their investigation.) the cops refused for whatever reason..came back 5 days later with a search warrant and everything was cleared. Is it possible that the lawyer told folks about how these investigations will be made public and all the private personal info will be exposed to public as a result. Fearing for P's privacy or even information that would P look like a chronic procurer of drugs coming out, they had no time to peruse the gmails for personal non-prevalent gmails, so they just quickly deleted everything.



3.) What people know or don't know about P's drug problem...he may have had an addiction that come and went but nothing quite as bad as it got at the end. In the past..He may have seemed to be taking pills strictly for pain but occassionally overdid it. THerefore, his musicians and casual friends knew but yet thought that since he was not a recreational user and for a while was under doctor supervision (and bcause of his use of less dangerous forms of pain control as well (vitamins, chiropactic table, arm braces etc) , he would do his best to keep it under control and himself as healthy as possible. At one point however, he may have been cut off from the drugs (due to doctor's fears and the long time nature of the need). Then when his health first started to go down hill, maybe some people reasoned that perhaps his health issues and maybe even psychological issues were because of the lack of drugs for relief. In other words, a belief that his dealing with chronic pain minus the drugs had become physically and emotionally difficult and causing mood shifts and isolated behavior. . I say this because Prince was doing sit-down piano tours, stopped playing guitar, and was telling folks that he was going to downsize because he was getting older etc--all behaviors that seem to indicate a man with pain trying to give his body a break.. Maybe this was an initial feeling until his symptoms became too obviously drugs (extreme thinness, cancelled shows, and finally the first overdose.) At some point in 2015, Prince (who did carry his own bags --see St. Bart's pictures and did have cash stashes hidden in his vault etc) decided to ask someone on the road or some "friend" of his out of Europe or from the industry if they had anything for pain and that person gave him 4 or 5 bottles of that scary street shit he started taking. Kirk may not have known entirely what was going on--(knew he had a history but didn't know about the counterfit shit) after all, folks called him a man who got overwhelmed sometimes at his job..and why create a paper trail to yourself for 15 percocet if you were procuring illegal counterfit pills that were much more than 15. Prince kept that man pretty busy and his mood swings could have seemd to him to be for a number of reasons (that is, for a little while until it became painfully obvious he was using again.) . Meron probably knew more than him because she probably bought the enemas.



4.) Judith's girlfriend status...maybe it is true. P was one secretive man. Maybe they wanted it to be a secret between the two of them--thus the reason she went back to L.A the next day. If she stuck around, people would know they were closer than they thought. there are indications that she kept tabs on him from L.A. Not saying she shouldn't have stayed but we don't know all the details. And hte only people who could be totally knowledgable about this stuff are P and herself. She was gone for 2 weeks out of the month so maybe when she was around he tried to stay as clean as possible. There was something said about a lipstick and cough drops in his room. Those were probably hers and used to keep her throat lozenged for singing.



5.) Larry Graham's insenstive statement to Manuela...who knows what he felt when he said. Maybe he was trying to make her feel better (and did the opposite) whilst he was still concerned himself. DOn't know enough about it. I am still inclined to think he is an insensitive dick but who knows?

cloveringold85 said:

.

I don't even know where to begin with Kirk's statements. I just can't believe how a grown man can act this way! We are supposed to believe that he didn't know Prince was addicted to pain pills, when his other associates gave statements that they knew about it? Come on! I got so upset when he went on CBS and when he was asked if Prince was in pain, he replied: "I don't know". disbelief

.

The way they were all behaving on 4/21/16 was shady (Kirk, Meron, Phaedra), and how Andrew described the scene; how horrifying!! It's like Kirk saw Prince's body, laying there and did NOTHING! His first reaction should have been to Call 911!! Is he really this clueless in life? Good God! I would not want him as a friend.

.

After reading Andrew's statements, I feel really bad for him that he was put in that situation. You could tell he was very nervous and was worried about this ruining his career/future. His father should have never sent him to PP. Now, he will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

.

Another thing that upsets me is the fact that Kirk threw away the Rx that Dr. Schulenberg gave to Prince on the 20th, because Prince said they weren't working. Why would you throw them away, in less than 24-hours? That's stupid!

.

[Edited 5/11/18 12:49pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 16:08pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 16:09pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 16:23pm]

.

I think you are over-analyzing things here.

.

If Kirk actually did what you described, then he should be in jail for tampering with a crime scene! Who moves a dead body??!! Call 911!!

.

Deleted files to protect Prince's privacy? Prince was gone; so, there is nothing to protect anymore.

.

Prince was struggling with pain, and he's no longer here because he had enablers around him.

.

Judith Hill was not Prince's GF. She went back to LA. If you love someone, you would not leave them in their time of need.

.

Larry Graham is full of it.

.

Larry, Kirk, Meron, Phaedra -- none of them were Prince's friends. More like wolves in sheep clothing. rolleyes

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #149 posted 05/12/18 11:56am

cloveringold85

fortuneandserendipity said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

my take is that Kirk and P shared a LOT for a long time...the longest relationship of his life...full stop.

Yes. It all began with that funny dancing in Purple Rain...


Speaking of relationships P had two going on at the same time when he clocked out.


Prince also kept many secrets. One secret was not telling Dr Schulenberg "Hey Doc, you don't need to prescribe me Vitamin D. I'm already taking it!" smile

.

Prince and Kirk were not close. The investigation documents have proven that.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #150 posted 05/12/18 11:56am

cloveringold85

Strawberrylova123 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

could you please elaborate a little?

Alex Hahns book " possessed" came out around 2002 and it mentions the 1996 overdose incident before maytes book came out, he said an associate told him that prince was taking opiates during the diamonds and pearls era and was writing scripts under his girlfriend's name in the past. Also in the book it was stated that prince was showing erratic behavior due to him taking Percocet during 2001. My point is that many knew they just chose to ignore it [Edited 5/11/18 19:38pm]

.

Is this fact or just hearsay?

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #151 posted 05/12/18 12:00pm

PeteSilas

cloveringold85 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Yes. It all began with that funny dancing in Purple Rain...


Speaking of relationships P had two going on at the same time when he clocked out.


Prince also kept many secrets. One secret was not telling Dr Schulenberg "Hey Doc, you don't need to prescribe me Vitamin D. I'm already taking it!" smile

.

Prince and Kirk were not close. The investigation documents have proven that.

what makes you say that? i haven't made my way past page 75 myself.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #152 posted 05/12/18 12:04pm

cloveringold85

PeteSilas said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Prince and Kirk were not close. The investigation documents have proven that.

what makes you say that? i haven't made my way past page 75 myself.

.

Kirk was an enabler; that's why he got a lawyer. He said that Prince was very private.

.

No one can convince me that Kirk did not know Prince was addicted to opiates. Kirk did not see all those bottles of pills in various rooms? Nope, sorry -- not buying that for one second!! disbelief

.

B.S.!! mad

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #153 posted 05/12/18 12:22pm

bondno9

laytonian said:

purplerabbithole said:

"There was something said about a lipstick and cough drops in his room. Those were probably hers and used to keep her throat lozenged for singing."

.

The lipstick: It would be Prince's. He used lipstick and lip balms generously. Who DOESN'T have something like that on their nightstand?
This is why my bedroom looks more like P's little green room than those overblown fancy "guest" apartments at PP: functionality. lol lol lol lol lol

.

(gentle snippage because it's NOT necessary to quote 72.5 paragraphs!)

.


The lipstick and cough drops were found in a different bedroom not the green room

Reply #154 posted 05/12/18 12:47pm

purplerabbithole

I don't think they were that close either but I don't think he was completely heartless either.

cloveringold85 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Yes. It all began with that funny dancing in Purple Rain...


Speaking of relationships P had two going on at the same time when he clocked out.


Prince also kept many secrets. One secret was not telling Dr Schulenberg "Hey Doc, you don't need to prescribe me Vitamin D. I'm already taking it!" smile

.

Prince and Kirk were not close. The investigation documents have proven that.

[Edited 5/12/18 12:57pm]

Reply #155 posted 05/12/18 12:49pm

purplerabbithole

I am over-analysing???... as if anything revolving around Prince is simple. You are jumping from A to Z when there could be plausible, less cynical reasons for things. You are under-analysing. Yes, they were enablers..but "enabling" is complicated is all I am saying.

cloveringold85 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Reasonable doubt theories... (trying to prove that less cynical explanations might actually exist...but none of these are in any way confirmable, I admit.Life's nuances are sometimes even more complicated than conspiracies.)

a.) when Michael stated that kirk came back from finding Prince, kirk looked like he was stressed about interrupting P, and then brought Meron back...and then later Michael hearing Meron scream. ---- Here's my reasonable doubt theory. Kirk got a quick glance of P laying on his side in the elevator, thought he was either sleeping, passed out or stoned but wasn't sure. Went back to get Meron, they both got a second closer looker, and he was stiff, no heartbeat, rigor had set in etc...all the tell tale signs of death...Then she screamed. Michael came over (and with his background as a med student, knew right away that Prince was dead. The warmth on his face was strictly from the heat in the building. the stiff arm/no heartbeat was a tell tale sign.) they freaked out for about ten or 20 minutes but realized quickly that a celebrity death will be covered by press, so they cleaned him up by turning his clothes around so that the vomit covered side was not noticeable, crying and upset the whole time.

b.) Prince's computer. Now, if I recall correctly, Prince's lawyer told the investigators that they coud look at P's computer if the lawyer was around to watch them (to double check that only prevalent information was included in their investigation.) the cops refused for whatever reason..came back 5 days later with a search warrant and everything was cleared. Is it possible that the lawyer told folks about how these investigations will be made public and all the private personal info will be exposed to public as a result. Fearing for P's privacy or even information that would P look like a chronic procurer of drugs coming out, they had no time to peruse the gmails for personal non-prevalent gmails, so they just quickly deleted everything.



3.) What people know or don't know about P's drug problem...he may have had an addiction that come and went but nothing quite as bad as it got at the end. In the past..He may have seemed to be taking pills strictly for pain but occassionally overdid it. THerefore, his musicians and casual friends knew but yet thought that since he was not a recreational user and for a while was under doctor supervision (and bcause of his use of less dangerous forms of pain control as well (vitamins, chiropactic table, arm braces etc) , he would do his best to keep it under control and himself as healthy as possible. At one point however, he may have been cut off from the drugs (due to doctor's fears and the long time nature of the need). Then when his health first started to go down hill, maybe some people reasoned that perhaps his health issues and maybe even psychological issues were because of the lack of drugs for relief. In other words, a belief that his dealing with chronic pain minus the drugs had become physically and emotionally difficult and causing mood shifts and isolated behavior. . I say this because Prince was doing sit-down piano tours, stopped playing guitar, and was telling folks that he was going to downsize because he was getting older etc--all behaviors that seem to indicate a man with pain trying to give his body a break.. Maybe this was an initial feeling until his symptoms became too obviously drugs (extreme thinness, cancelled shows, and finally the first overdose.) At some point in 2015, Prince (who did carry his own bags --see St. Bart's pictures and did have cash stashes hidden in his vault etc) decided to ask someone on the road or some "friend" of his out of Europe or from the industry if they had anything for pain and that person gave him 4 or 5 bottles of that scary street shit he started taking. Kirk may not have known entirely what was going on--(knew he had a history but didn't know about the counterfit shit) after all, folks called him a man who got overwhelmed sometimes at his job..and why create a paper trail to yourself for 15 percocet if you were procuring illegal counterfit pills that were much more than 15. Prince kept that man pretty busy and his mood swings could have seemd to him to be for a number of reasons (that is, for a little while until it became painfully obvious he was using again.) . Meron probably knew more than him because she probably bought the enemas.



4.) Judith's girlfriend status...maybe it is true. P was one secretive man. Maybe they wanted it to be a secret between the two of them--thus the reason she went back to L.A the next day. If she stuck around, people would know they were closer than they thought. there are indications that she kept tabs on him from L.A. Not saying she shouldn't have stayed but we don't know all the details. And hte only people who could be totally knowledgable about this stuff are P and herself. She was gone for 2 weeks out of the month so maybe when she was around he tried to stay as clean as possible. There was something said about a lipstick and cough drops in his room. Those were probably hers and used to keep her throat lozenged for singing.



5.) Larry Graham's insenstive statement to Manuela...who knows what he felt when he said. Maybe he was trying to make her feel better (and did the opposite) whilst he was still concerned himself. DOn't know enough about it. I am still inclined to think he is an insensitive dick but who knows?

[Edited 5/11/18 16:08pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 16:09pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 16:23pm]

.

I think you are over-analyzing things here.

.

If Kirk actually did what you described, then he should be in jail for tampering with a crime scene! Who moves a dead body??!! Call 911!!

.

Deleted files to protect Prince's privacy? Prince was gone; so, there is nothing to protect anymore.

.

Prince was struggling with pain, and he's no longer here because he had enablers around him.

.

Judith Hill was not Prince's GF. She went back to LA. If you love someone, you would not leave them in their time of need.

.

Larry Graham is full of it.

.

Larry, Kirk, Meron, Phaedra -- none of them were Prince's friends. More like wolves in sheep clothing. rolleyes

Reply #156 posted 05/12/18 12:54pm

Bodhitheblackdog

purplerabbithole said:

I am over-analysing???... as if anything revolving around Prince is simple. You are jumping from A to Z when there could be plausible, less cynical reasons for things. You are under-analysing. Yes, they were enablers..but "enabling" is complicated is all I am saying.

cloveringold85 said:

.

I think you are over-analyzing things here.

.

If Kirk actually did what you described, then he should be in jail for tampering with a crime scene! Who moves a dead body??!! Call 911!!

.

Deleted files to protect Prince's privacy? Prince was gone; so, there is nothing to protect anymore.

.

Prince was struggling with pain, and he's no longer here because he had enablers around him.

.

Judith Hill was not Prince's GF. She went back to LA. If you love someone, you would not leave them in their time of need.

.

Larry Graham is full of it.

.

Larry, Kirk, Meron, Phaedra -- none of them were Prince's friends. More like wolves in sheep clothing. rolleyes

Wasn't it Prince who said something along the lines that "friends are not people who are on your payroll"?..he knew.

Reply #157 posted 05/12/18 1:22pm

PeteSilas

sure they know, i just watched a thin lizzy docu, phil knew he had a problem and he knew it was serious. However, the thing with prince, he never sounded better, never played better, which is what i said from the beginning, i know that drugs effect everyone different but most of these guys will say it fucks up everything, from relationships, to their musicianship and it doesn't take until 57 to catch up to most of them. Phil died at 35. Prince had to know he had a problem, he went to enough trouble to keep it all hush hush, i'm not saying the things people say, i'm talking a deeper level, where peoples souls know. not what they say, how they act.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #158 posted 05/12/18 3:18pm

cloveringold85

purplerabbithole said:

I am over-analysing???... as if anything revolving around Prince is simple. You are jumping from A to Z when there could be plausible, less cynical reasons for things. You are under-analysing. Yes, they were enablers..but "enabling" is complicated is all I am saying.

cloveringold85 said:

.

I think you are over-analyzing things here.

.

If Kirk actually did what you described, then he should be in jail for tampering with a crime scene! Who moves a dead body??!! Call 911!!

.

Deleted files to protect Prince's privacy? Prince was gone; so, there is nothing to protect anymore.

.

Prince was struggling with pain, and he's no longer here because he had enablers around him.

.

Judith Hill was not Prince's GF. She went back to LA. If you love someone, you would not leave them in their time of need.

.

Larry Graham is full of it.

.

Larry, Kirk, Meron, Phaedra -- none of them were Prince's friends. More like wolves in sheep clothing. rolleyes

.

I apologize if I offended you; that was not my intent.

.

I just think that a lot of people dissect Prince's life a bit too much, and try to figure out what made him tick. I don't think he was really that complicated, imo. He was a huge rock star and a legend, but he was only human, like the rest of us.

.

At the end of the day, Prince had problems, just like everyone else; he had his faults, regrets, insecurities, heartbreak, being used by people, etc.........only thing different was that he had money, and lots of it; but that doesn't buy happiness.

.

He enjoyed books, watching movies and talking about life, just like the rest of us--just regular stuff. It seemed like he was pretty-much a regular guy when he wasn't on the road being "Prince".

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #159 posted 05/12/18 3:42pm

bondno9

1. Why didn't they obtain a search warrant for Kirk Johnson's residence??? They found scripts issued in his name but didn't search his residence??? DUMB DUMB!!!

2. Also where was the Percocet that Dr. S. prescribed in KJ's name? It obviously wasn't found at Paisley or any of Prince's possessions. So what happened to it?

[Edited 5/12/18 15:45pm]

Reply #160 posted 05/12/18 3:49pm

cloveringold85

bondno9 said:

Why didn't they issue a warrant for Kirk Johnson's residence??? They found scripts issued in his name but didn't search his residence??? DUMB DUMB!!!

.

Good question! Kirk was manager of PP and had full-access to that place, 24/7. The fact that they did not conduct a search warrant on his residence is beyond me!

.

He was giving Percocet to Prince, which was prescribed in Kirk's name, so there is no telling what else he was giving him. rolleyes

.

Kirk said he dropped Prince off around 8PM, but Meron stated that she and Kirk left around 10:30PM. eek

.

Kirk & Meron picked up Andrew at his hotel on the 21st, and went for Breakfast, while Prince was in dire need of medical attention. Does this sound like they were worried about Prince? mad confused

.

[Edited 5/12/18 15:50pm]

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #161 posted 05/12/18 4:18pm

bondno9

cloveringold85 said:

bondno9 said:

Why didn't they issue a warrant for Kirk Johnson's residence??? They found scripts issued in his name but didn't search his residence??? DUMB DUMB!!!

.

Good question! Kirk was manager of PP and had full-access to that place, 24/7. The fact that they did not conduct a search warrant on his residence is beyond me!

.

He was giving Percocet to Prince, which was prescribed in Kirk's name, so there is no telling what else he was giving him. rolleyes

.

Kirk said he dropped Prince off around 8PM, but Meron stated that she and Kirk left around 10:30PM. eek

.

Kirk & Meron picked up Andrew at his hotel on the 21st, and went for Breakfast, while Prince was in dire need of medical attention. Does this sound like they were worried about Prince? mad confused

.

[Edited 5/12/18 15:50pm]

He probably also had access to a computer at home ... but they solely focused on Prince's laptop. Also, Prince had a desktop in the upstairs office I believe. That should have also been seized.

-

The morning timeline of the 21st is still bothering me. A significant amount of time unaccounted for. In reviewing KJ'S cell phone records it looks like Andrew made several attempts to contact Kirk after landing from 6:22 a.m. - 7:42 a.m. I"m going to assume Kirk didn't p/u him up until after 7:42 a.m. Kirk then made two phone calls at 7:49 a.m. and 7:51 a.m. to Prince's bedroom and kitchen. After that no more attempts. What's even more strange is that Andrew didn't check in until 8:45 a.m. So what was going on between Andrew, Kirk, and Meron from 7:42 a.m. - 8:45 a.m. Andrew says that Kirk and Meron check him into the hotel and then they had breakfast. So, they had breakfast for maybe 15 mins? 8:45 a.m. - 9:00 a.m. and then headed for Paisley arriving at 9:15 a.m. approximately according to Andrew hmmm

--

Andrew was taking to an office on the West side of the building. It was a larger office located off one of the larger recording studios. Yet, he was able to hear Meron scream and find his way towards the elevator?

--

Also, Kirk stated looking in the black bag after the emergency landing but only finding medicine/prescription for something called Nyozen or something like that but couldn't remember the name ... UMM HMM

Reply #162 posted 05/12/18 5:56pm

cloveringold85

bondno9 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Good question! Kirk was manager of PP and had full-access to that place, 24/7. The fact that they did not conduct a search warrant on his residence is beyond me!

.

He was giving Percocet to Prince, which was prescribed in Kirk's name, so there is no telling what else he was giving him. rolleyes

.

Kirk said he dropped Prince off around 8PM, but Meron stated that she and Kirk left around 10:30PM. eek

.

Kirk & Meron picked up Andrew at his hotel on the 21st, and went for Breakfast, while Prince was in dire need of medical attention. Does this sound like they were worried about Prince? mad confused

.

[Edited 5/12/18 15:50pm]

He probably also had access to a computer at home ... but they solely focused on Prince's laptop. Also, Prince had a desktop in the upstairs office I believe. That should have also been seized.

-

The morning timeline of the 21st is still bothering me. A significant amount of time unaccounted for. In reviewing KJ'S cell phone records it looks like Andrew made several attempts to contact Kirk after landing from 6:22 a.m. - 7:42 a.m. I"m going to assume Kirk didn't p/u him up until after 7:42 a.m. Kirk then made two phone calls at 7:49 a.m. and 7:51 a.m. to Prince's bedroom and kitchen. After that no more attempts. What's even more strange is that Andrew didn't check in until 8:45 a.m. So what was going on between Andrew, Kirk, and Meron from 7:42 a.m. - 8:45 a.m. Andrew says that Kirk and Meron check him into the hotel and then they had breakfast. So, they had breakfast for maybe 15 mins? 8:45 a.m. - 9:00 a.m. and then headed for Paisley arriving at 9:15 a.m. approximately according to Andrew hmmm

--

Andrew was taking to an office on the West side of the building. It was a larger office located off one of the larger recording studios. Yet, he was able to hear Meron scream and find his way towards the elevator?

--

Also, Kirk stated looking in the black bag after the emergency landing but only finding medicine/prescription for something called Nyozen or something like that but couldn't remember the name ... UMM HMM

.

That is a very good point -- why wasn't Kirk's personal home computer checked? hmmm

.

I recall in the documents, Judith mentioned Prince's office, where he would leave in the middle of the night and go on his personal computer.

.

I was reading Kirk's and Andrew's statements the other day, but I can't quite recall what time he picked-up Andrew. I think it's fair to say that the timeline does not add up. Why would Kirk be ringing Prince at 7:49AM? So, he just shrugged it off, and went for breakfast with Andrew and Meron? hmmm

.

Yes, Andrew claimed he got to PP around 9-9:15AM-ish. It took them 30-minutes to locate Prince?! eek hmmm

.

Andrew stated that he did not have any information on Prince's condition, only that he was struggling with opiates. neutral

.

Andrew also stated that he was not aware that Dr. Shulenberg was making a visit on the 21st. This just keeps getting more and more weird. neutral

.

But, Carver County Sheriff stated that they would leave no stone unturned. confused neutral

.

.

[Edited 5/12/18 17:59pm]

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #163 posted 05/12/18 7:22pm

zenarose

bondno9 said:

1. Why didn't they obtain a search warrant for Kirk Johnson's residence??? They found scripts issued in his name but didn't search his residence??? DUMB DUMB!!!

2. Also where was the Percocet that Dr. S. prescribed in KJ's name? It obviously wasn't found at Paisley or any of Prince's possessions. So what happened to it?

[Edited 5/12/18 15:45pm]

I'm not sure why everyone is saying Percocet. The pharmacy RX History says 2 scripts were filled for KJ on 4/14 at 2 different pharmacies. ( One Prescribed by a Dentist Dr. Boo and one by Dr. Schulenberg)

1. Oxycodone-Acetaminophen - 10

2. Acetaminophen- COD 3 - 15

One script filled at Walgreen @ 7845 Portland Ave S Bloomington, Mn

one script filled at CVS@ 7765 Galpin Blvd Chanhassen, Mn

It is stated in the narratives that investigators found the scripts in the dumpster at PP and all pills were accounted for. The 3 scripts written for Prince on 4/20 were NOT found at PP. KJ admitted to taking them to his home.... after first stating that he had thrown them away because Prince had said they weren't working for him. LE took one of KJ's relatives to his house @ 2178 Redfox Circle to retreave those 3 scripts and put them into evidence.

Reply #164 posted 05/12/18 9:06pm

bondno9

zenarose said:

bondno9 said:

1. Why didn't they obtain a search warrant for Kirk Johnson's residence??? They found scripts issued in his name but didn't search his residence??? DUMB DUMB!!!

2. Also where was the Percocet that Dr. S. prescribed in KJ's name? It obviously wasn't found at Paisley or any of Prince's possessions. So what happened to it?

[Edited 5/12/18 15:45pm]

I'm not sure why everyone is saying Percocet. The pharmacy RX History says 2 scripts were filled for KJ on 4/14 at 2 different pharmacies. ( One Prescribed by a Dentist Dr. Boo and one by Dr. Schulenberg)

1. Oxycodone-Acetaminophen - 10

2. Acetaminophen- COD 3 - 15

One script filled at Walgreen @ 7845 Portland Ave S Bloomington, Mn

one script filled at CVS@ 7765 Galpin Blvd Chanhassen, Mn

It is stated in the narratives that investigators found the scripts in the dumpster at PP and all pills were accounted for. The 3 scripts written for Prince on 4/20 were NOT found at PP. KJ admitted to taking them to his home.... after first stating that he had thrown them away because Prince had said they weren't working for him. LE took one of KJ's relatives to his house @ 2178 Redfox Circle to retreave those 3 scripts and put them into evidence.

What do you mean you don't understand why everyone is saying Percocet? It happends to be the brand name used by Dr. S and others in the investigation report. Dr S said he felt comfortable prescribing Prince 15 PERCOCET. He didn't say oxycodone-acetaminophen rolleyes Due to a typo in the stamp number from one of the incident reports I didn't see it listed in the evidence list We are aware of the 3 scripts (in Prince's name) being recovered from KJ's residence. However, that shouldn't have negated a search warrant being issued upon KJ's residence. The fact that other scripts issued in KJ' name were found at Paisley sholulhd have necessitated a warrant. If anything, to find evidence or knowledge of counterfeit pills. Instead, investigators limited their search instead of expanding it to include search warrants upon the residences of KJ, Ray Roberts, Meron (hotel, parents house), and even the Weltons. You don't leave any stone unturned in a criminal investigation ... and that includes EVERYONE associated with the victim.

[Edited 5/12/18 21:08pm]

Reply #165 posted 05/12/18 10:09pm

NotACleverName

Goodness....google Percocet and you will find it is oxycodone and acetaminophen. I believe Percocet is the generic, or off brand name. In other words, they are one in the same.

Also, this opioid WAS found at PP in amongst other pills. I would have to look at the docs for the specifics but this has been discussed many, many times.
"Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence......." ~ DESIDERATA ~ Max Ehrmann
Reply #166 posted 05/12/18 11:21pm

Astasheiks

bondno9 said:

zenarose said:

I'm not sure why everyone is saying Percocet. The pharmacy RX History says 2 scripts were filled for KJ on 4/14 at 2 different pharmacies. ( One Prescribed by a Dentist Dr. Boo and one by Dr. Schulenberg)

1. Oxycodone-Acetaminophen - 10

2. Acetaminophen- COD 3 - 15

One script filled at Walgreen @ 7845 Portland Ave S Bloomington, Mn

one script filled at CVS@ 7765 Galpin Blvd Chanhassen, Mn

It is stated in the narratives that investigators found the scripts in the dumpster at PP and all pills were accounted for. The 3 scripts written for Prince on 4/20 were NOT found at PP. KJ admitted to taking them to his home.... after first stating that he had thrown them away because Prince had said they weren't working for him. LE took one of KJ's relatives to his house @ 2178 Redfox Circle to retreave those 3 scripts and put them into evidence.

What do you mean you don't understand why everyone is saying Percocet? It happends to be the brand name used by Dr. S and others in the investigation report. Dr S said he felt comfortable prescribing Prince 15 PERCOCET. He didn't say oxycodone-acetaminophen rolleyes Due to a typo in the stamp number from one of the incident reports I didn't see it listed in the evidence list We are aware of the 3 scripts (in Prince's name) being recovered from KJ's residence. However, that shouldn't have negated a search warrant being issued upon KJ's residence. The fact that other scripts issued in KJ' name were found at Paisley sholulhd have necessitated a warrant. If anything, to find evidence or knowledge of counterfeit pills. Instead, investigators limited their search instead of expanding it to include search warrants upon the residences of KJ, Ray Roberts, Meron (hotel, parents house), and even the Weltons. You don't leave any stone unturned in a criminal investigation ... and that includes EVERYONE associated with the victim.

[Edited 5/12/18 21:08pm]

Amen!!! to the bolded part!!!

Reply #167 posted 05/12/18 11:28pm

Astasheiks

cloveringold85 said:

bondno9 said:

Why didn't they issue a warrant for Kirk Johnson's residence??? They found scripts issued in his name but didn't search his residence??? DUMB DUMB!!!

.

Good question! Kirk was manager of PP and had full-access to that place, 24/7. The fact that they did not conduct a search warrant on his residence is beyond me!

.

He was giving Percocet to Prince, which was prescribed in Kirk's name, so there is no telling what else he was giving him. rolleyes

.

Kirk said he dropped Prince off around 8PM, but Meron stated that she and Kirk left around 10:30PM. eek

.

Kirk & Meron picked up Andrew at his hotel on the 21st, and went for Breakfast, while Prince was in dire need of medical attention. Does this sound like they were worried about Prince? mad confused

.

[Edited 5/12/18 15:50pm]

Something ain't adding up and sounds very fishy

Reply #168 posted 05/12/18 11:51pm

Astasheiks

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.

Your last sentence, Whats that about and where did you learn about that? confused

Reply #169 posted 05/13/18 12:08am

Krystalkisses

Astasheiks said:

 



Krystalkisses said:


Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.



 


Your last sentence, Whats that about and where did you learn about that? confused



I read it in Possessed by Alex Hahn, actually I don't think it was an assistant but Susan Rogers.
Reply #170 posted 05/13/18 3:19am

zenarose

bondno9 said:

zenarose said:

I'm not sure why everyone is saying Percocet. The pharmacy RX History says 2 scripts were filled for KJ on 4/14 at 2 different pharmacies. ( One Prescribed by a Dentist Dr. Boo and one by Dr. Schulenberg)

1. Oxycodone-Acetaminophen - 10

2. Acetaminophen- COD 3 - 15

One script filled at Walgreen @ 7845 Portland Ave S Bloomington, Mn

one script filled at CVS@ 7765 Galpin Blvd Chanhassen, Mn

It is stated in the narratives that investigators found the scripts in the dumpster at PP and all pills were accounted for. The 3 scripts written for Prince on 4/20 were NOT found at PP. KJ admitted to taking them to his home.... after first stating that he had thrown them away because Prince had said they weren't working for him. LE took one of KJ's relatives to his house @ 2178 Redfox Circle to retreave those 3 scripts and put them into evidence.

What do you mean you don't understand why everyone is saying Percocet? It happends to be the brand name used by Dr. S and others in the investigation report. Dr S said he felt comfortable prescribing Prince 15 PERCOCET. He didn't say oxycodone-acetaminophen rolleyes Due to a typo in the stamp number from one of the incident reports I didn't see it listed in the evidence list We are aware of the 3 scripts (in Prince's name) being recovered from KJ's residence. However, that shouldn't have negated a search warrant being issued upon KJ's residence. The fact that other scripts issued in KJ' name were found at Paisley sholulhd have necessitated a warrant. If anything, to find evidence or knowledge of counterfeit pills. Instead, investigators limited their search instead of expanding it to include search warrants upon the residences of KJ, Ray Roberts, Meron (hotel, parents house), and even the Weltons. You don't leave any stone unturned in a criminal investigation ... and that includes EVERYONE associated with the victim.

[Edited 5/12/18 21:08pm]

I was referring to the information directly from the investigation files. In Electronics Records File #5, under the Misc. Documents is the actual RX History Form. The information came directly from pharmacy records. MB's Country Inn Suits room should have been searched as well as KJ's home, I fully agree with that. I have been researching this case since the beginning. I know how thorough investigations are conducted. The interviews were not so much fact finding as they were gossipy. As an example, if you read the Welton's interview, they were not separated and the detective was not in control of the situation. The detective asked very few questions. It was more of the Weltons endlessly chattering and the detective saying "yeah" every now and then. I noticed that during some of the interviews the sessions were interupted or stopped to be resumed later. YOU DON'T DO THAT!! Once an interview starts it should never be interupted or allowed to end without being completed. Something that I don't understand is that we have access to some statement transcripts from KJ,MB, RR,TN, but the audio was not released. The initial interviews from these folks were interupted and ended without completion, set aside for another time. That gave them time to confer with others and "think". I certainly have no alterior motive here other than to share truth and FACTS. I have spent the past 2 yrs...pretty much 24/7, investigating and researching. I was not questioning you BONDNO9. I was quoting verbatim what is stated in the RX History. Dr.S in his statement said Percocet. I am part of the "WE" here and have been. I respect others and was only commenting, giving information. Not everyone has downloaded the investigation files in it's entirety. I apologize if you mistook my post and were offended.

Reply #171 posted 05/13/18 6:00am

PennyPurple

zenarose said:

I was referring to the information directly from the investigation files. In Electronics Records File #5, under the Misc. Documents is the actual RX History Form. The information came directly from pharmacy records. MB's Country Inn Suits room should have been searched as well as KJ's home, I fully agree with that. I have been researching this case since the beginning. I know how thorough investigations are conducted. The interviews were not so much fact finding as they were gossipy. As an example, if you read the Welton's interview, they were not separated and the detective was not in control of the situation. The detective asked very few questions. It was more of the Weltons endlessly chattering and the detective saying "yeah" every now and then. I noticed that during some of the interviews the sessions were interupted or stopped to be resumed later. YOU DON'T DO THAT!! Once an interview starts it should never be interupted or allowed to end without being completed. Something that I don't understand is that we have access to some statement transcripts from KJ,MB, RR,TN, but the audio was not released. The initial interviews from these folks were interupted and ended without completion, set aside for another time. That gave them time to confer with others and "think". I certainly have no alterior motive here other than to share truth and FACTS. I have spent the past 2 yrs...pretty much 24/7, investigating and researching. I was not questioning you BONDNO9. I was quoting verbatim what is stated in the RX History. Dr.S in his statement said Percocet. I am part of the "WE" here and have been. I respect others and was only commenting, giving information. Not everyone has downloaded the investigation files in it's entirety. I apologize if you mistook my post and were offended.

And they let Kirk take phone calls on his cell phone when they were interviewing him.

Reply #172 posted 05/13/18 6:48am

Bodhitheblackdog

PennyPurple said:

zenarose said:

I was referring to the information directly from the investigation files. In Electronics Records File #5, under the Misc. Documents is the actual RX History Form. The information came directly from pharmacy records. MB's Country Inn Suits room should have been searched as well as KJ's home, I fully agree with that. I have been researching this case since the beginning. I know how thorough investigations are conducted. The interviews were not so much fact finding as they were gossipy. As an example, if you read the Welton's interview, they were not separated and the detective was not in control of the situation. The detective asked very few questions. It was more of the Weltons endlessly chattering and the detective saying "yeah" every now and then. I noticed that during some of the interviews the sessions were interupted or stopped to be resumed later. YOU DON'T DO THAT!! Once an interview starts it should never be interupted or allowed to end without being completed. Something that I don't understand is that we have access to some statement transcripts from KJ,MB, RR,TN, but the audio was not released. The initial interviews from these folks were interupted and ended without completion, set aside for another time. That gave them time to confer with others and "think". I certainly have no alterior motive here other than to share truth and FACTS. I have spent the past 2 yrs...pretty much 24/7, investigating and researching. I was not questioning you BONDNO9. I was quoting verbatim what is stated in the RX History. Dr.S in his statement said Percocet. I am part of the "WE" here and have been. I respect others and was only commenting, giving information. Not everyone has downloaded the investigation files in it's entirety. I apologize if you mistook my post and were offended.

And they let Kirk take phone calls on his cell phone when they were interviewing him.

Much love and respect to everyone here who is drilling down into the death investigation files with heart, intelligence and love. Let the light in...xoxo

Reply #173 posted 05/13/18 7:11am

zenarose

PennyPurple said:

zenarose said:

I was referring to the information directly from the investigation files. In Electronics Records File #5, under the Misc. Documents is the actual RX History Form. The information came directly from pharmacy records. MB's Country Inn Suits room should have been searched as well as KJ's home, I fully agree with that. I have been researching this case since the beginning. I know how thorough investigations are conducted. The interviews were not so much fact finding as they were gossipy. As an example, if you read the Welton's interview, they were not separated and the detective was not in control of the situation. The detective asked very few questions. It was more of the Weltons endlessly chattering and the detective saying "yeah" every now and then. I noticed that during some of the interviews the sessions were interupted or stopped to be resumed later. YOU DON'T DO THAT!! Once an interview starts it should never be interupted or allowed to end without being completed. Something that I don't understand is that we have access to some statement transcripts from KJ,MB, RR,TN, but the audio was not released. The initial interviews from these folks were interupted and ended without completion, set aside for another time. That gave them time to confer with others and "think". I certainly have no alterior motive here other than to share truth and FACTS. I have spent the past 2 yrs...pretty much 24/7, investigating and researching. I was not questioning you BONDNO9. I was quoting verbatim what is stated in the RX History. Dr.S in his statement said Percocet. I am part of the "WE" here and have been. I respect others and was only commenting, giving information. Not everyone has downloaded the investigation files in it's entirety. I apologize if you mistook my post and were offended.

And they let Kirk take phone calls on his cell phone when they were interviewing him.

Yes and that should not have been allowed. Interviews are supposed to be conducted where there are no distractions. no no no! no no no! no no no!

Reply #174 posted 05/13/18 8:07am

MMJas

zenarose said:

bondno9 said:

What do you mean you don't understand why everyone is saying Percocet? It happends to be the brand name used by Dr. S and others in the investigation report. Dr S said he felt comfortable prescribing Prince 15 PERCOCET. He didn't say oxycodone-acetaminophen rolleyes Due to a typo in the stamp number from one of the incident reports I didn't see it listed in the evidence list We are aware of the 3 scripts (in Prince's name) being recovered from KJ's residence. However, that shouldn't have negated a search warrant being issued upon KJ's residence. The fact that other scripts issued in KJ' name were found at Paisley sholulhd have necessitated a warrant. If anything, to find evidence or knowledge of counterfeit pills. Instead, investigators limited their search instead of expanding it to include search warrants upon the residences of KJ, Ray Roberts, Meron (hotel, parents house), and even the Weltons. You don't leave any stone unturned in a criminal investigation ... and that includes EVERYONE associated with the victim.

[Edited 5/12/18 21:08pm]

I was referring to the information directly from the investigation files. In Electronics Records File #5, under the Misc. Documents is the actual RX History Form. The information came directly from pharmacy records. MB's Country Inn Suits room should have been searched as well as KJ's home, I fully agree with that. I have been researching this case since the beginning. I know how thorough investigations are conducted. The interviews were not so much fact finding as they were gossipy. As an example, if you read the Welton's interview, they were not separated and the detective was not in control of the situation. The detective asked very few questions. It was more of the Weltons endlessly chattering and the detective saying "yeah" every now and then. I noticed that during some of the interviews the sessions were interupted or stopped to be resumed later. YOU DON'T DO THAT!! Once an interview starts it should never be interupted or allowed to end without being completed. Something that I don't understand is that we have access to some statement transcripts from KJ,MB, RR,TN, but the audio was not released. The initial interviews from these folks were interupted and ended without completion, set aside for another time. That gave them time to confer with others and "think". I certainly have no alterior motive here other than to share truth and FACTS. I have spent the past 2 yrs...pretty much 24/7, investigating and researching. I was not questioning you BONDNO9. I was quoting verbatim what is stated in the RX History. Dr.S in his statement said Percocet. I am part of the "WE" here and have been. I respect others and was only commenting, giving information. Not everyone has downloaded the investigation files in it's entirety. I apologize if you mistook my post and were offended.

There was nothing professional about those interviews. It was like the Police had already made up their minds about what had happened and were just going through the motions.

Reply #175 posted 05/13/18 8:17am

precioux

cloveringold85 said:

 



PeteSilas said:


 



cloveringold85 said:


 


.


Prince and Kirk were not close.  The investigation documents have proven that.


 


 



what makes you say that?  i haven't made my way past page 75 myself.  



.


Kirk was an enabler; that's why he got a lawyer.  He said that Prince was very private.  


.


No one can convince me that Kirk did not know Prince was addicted to opiates.  Kirk did not see all those bottles of pills in various rooms?  Nope, sorry -- not buying that for one second!!  disbelief


.


B.S.!! mad



Page 32 of the transcripts (last paragraph),JH states that at the memorial KJ said “he knew all along”. Same paragraph, she said Prince asked in a prior conversation with KJ if he “would continue the shows if he (Prince) was not here.
Reply #176 posted 05/13/18 8:20am

precioux

bondno9 said:

 



laytonian said:


purplerabbithole said:


"There was something said about a lipstick and cough drops in his room. Those were probably hers and used to keep her throat lozenged for singing."


.


The lipstick:   It would be Prince's.  He used lipstick and lip balms generously.  Who DOESN'T have something like that on their nightstand?
This is why my bedroom looks more like P's little green room than those overblown fancy "guest" apartments at PP:   functionality.     lol lol lol lol lol


.


(gentle snippage because it's NOT necessary to quote 72.5 paragraphs!)


.





 


The lipstick and cough drops were found in a different bedroom not the green room 




Speaking of the green room, when JH was interviewed, she stated that P never ever had medicine in that room, nor in his bathroom anytime they spent time together. She said his bathroom did not have a medicine cabinet and was “simple” - toothpaste, listerine, etc etc -no pills ever
Reply #177 posted 05/13/18 10:16am

purplerabbithole

I don't doubt that he "knew" all along. I am just wondering what exactly "knew" meant. Maybe he used to pick up pills for p in his name, then stopped and P seemed to go off pills, but his health went to shit, people suspected it was pain and withdrawal, then KJ gave in again getting those 15 percocet, and then realized P had gotten other pills elsewhere..and was like "Oh, no, not this shit again". We don't know the ins and outs and ups and down's of this shit. We also shouldn't assume that P didn't take his own actions to get pills. He was carrying his own bags, he did have disguised bottles in those bags, he did have a vault with cash in it. He wasn't an invalid. He knew a lot of celebrities and others musicians other than Kirk Johnson and despite the looks of Paisley at the end of his life, his last two years weren't necessarily the same as the last weeks of severe denial. I was just watching the clips from his Baltimore concert for Peace in May of 2015. He knew a lot of frigging people. For all we know, he got drugs from doug e. fresh (doubtful, I am just throwing out one of many celebrities he knew and had casual friendships with.).

Image result for Prince st. barts

Image result for Prince st. barts

precioux said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Kirk was an enabler; that's why he got a lawyer. He said that Prince was very private.

.

No one can convince me that Kirk did not know Prince was addicted to opiates. Kirk did not see all those bottles of pills in various rooms? Nope, sorry -- not buying that for one second!! disbelief

.

B.S.!! mad

Page 32 of the transcripts (last paragraph),JH states that at the memorial KJ said “he knew all along”. Same paragraph, she said Prince asked in a prior conversation with KJ if he “would continue the shows if he (Prince) was not here.

Reply #178 posted 05/13/18 10:23am

Krystalkisses

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



PennyPurple said:


 



zenarose said:


 


 


I was referring to the information directly from the investigation files. In Electronics Records File #5, under the Misc. Documents is the actual RX History Form. The information came directly from pharmacy records. MB's Country Inn Suits room should have been searched as well as KJ's home, I fully agree with that.  I have been researching this case since the beginning. I know how thorough investigations are conducted. The interviews were not so much fact finding as they were gossipy. As an example, if you read the Welton's interview, they were not separated and the detective was not in control of the situation. The detective asked very few questions. It was more of the Weltons endlessly chattering and the detective saying "yeah" every now and then. I noticed that during some of the interviews the sessions were interupted or stopped to be resumed later. YOU DON'T DO THAT!! Once an interview starts it should never be interupted or allowed to end without being completed. Something that I don't understand is that we have access to some statement transcripts from KJ,MB, RR,TN, but the audio was not released. The initial interviews from these folks were interupted and ended without completion, set aside for another time. That gave them time to confer with others and "think". I certainly have no alterior motive here other than to share truth and FACTS. I have spent the past 2 yrs...pretty much 24/7, investigating and researching. I was not questioning you BONDNO9. I was quoting verbatim what is stated in the RX History. Dr.S in his statement said Percocet. I am part of the "WE" here and have been. I respect others and was only commenting, giving information. Not everyone has downloaded the investigation files in it's entirety. I apologize if you mistook my post and were offended. 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 



And they let Kirk take phone calls on his cell phone when they were interviewing him.



Much love and respect to everyone here who is drilling down into the death investigation files with heart, intelligence and love. Let the light in...xoxo



Yes! Thanks for acknowledging that! I second that. It is quite a lot of info to sift through. Thanks for all you orgers for your dedication and pointing out all the important info. I rely on your work to stay up to date on all of this. Prince sure had many fans who really loved him, I'm sure he appreciated you all much more than you will ever realise. smile
[Edited 5/13/18 10:24am]
Reply #179 posted 05/13/18 11:31am

Strawberrylova123

purplerabbithole said:

I don't doubt that he "knew" all along. I am just wondering what exactly "knew" meant. Maybe he used to pick up pills for p in his name, then stopped and P seemed to go off pills, but his health went to shit, people suspected it was pain and withdrawal, then KJ gave in again getting those 15 percocet, and then realized P had gotten other pills elsewhere..and was like "Oh, no, not this shit again".  We don't know the ins and outs and ups and down's of this shit.  We also shouldn't assume that P didn't take his own actions to get pills. He was carrying his own bags, he did have disguised bottles in those bags, he did have a vault with cash in it.  He wasn't an invalid. He knew a lot of celebrities and others musicians other than Kirk Johnson and despite the looks of Paisley at the end of his life, his last two years weren't necessarily the same as the last weeks of severe denial.  I was just watching the clips from his Baltimore concert for Peace in May of 2015. He knew a lot of frigging people. For all we know, he got drugs from doug e. fresh (doubtful, I am just throwing out one of many celebrities he knew and had casual friendships with.). 


 


 


Image result for Prince st. barts


 


Image result for Prince st. barts



precioux said:


cloveringold85 said:

 


.


Kirk was an enabler; that's why he got a lawyer.  He said that Prince was very private.  


.


No one can convince me that Kirk did not know Prince was addicted to opiates.  Kirk did not see all those bottles of pills in various rooms?  Nope, sorry -- not buying that for one second!!  disbelief


.


B.S.!! mad



Page 32 of the transcripts (last paragraph),JH states that at the memorial KJ said “he knew all along”. Same paragraph, she said Prince asked in a prior conversation with KJ if he “would continue the shows if he (Prince) was not here.

 


Prince knew a lot of different people and knew many famous faces, in the investagative files Manuela said during their marriage prince's drug dealer was a well known producer, this same producer tried to attend the memorial she put together but she blocked him/her from going. Who knows where prince got those pills
[Edited 5/13/18 11:35am]
Reply #180 posted 05/13/18 12:25pm

bondno9

So Housequake on Twitter is encouraging the ORG (and others) to RT or follow in their footsteps to block and bann Prince 'fams' still claiming that Prince was killed by WB or believes in some kind of consipracy that resulted in Prince's death. In additon, those who claim or believe need to get a reality check and move on! confused

Reply #181 posted 05/13/18 1:08pm

PeteSilas

Krystalkisses said:

Astasheiks said:

Your last sentence, Whats that about and where did you learn about that? confused

I read it in Possessed by Alex Hahn, actually I don't think it was an assistant but Susan Rogers.

the (not so) odd thing is that when susan is asked about that incident today, she seems to defer and say she doesn't quite know. Honestly, i think she is just reluctant to say anything negative now that Prince is gone.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #182 posted 05/13/18 1:21pm

Strawberrylova123

Strawberrylova123 said:

purplerabbithole said:

I don't doubt that he "knew" all along. I am just wondering what exactly "knew" meant. Maybe he used to pick up pills for p in his name, then stopped and P seemed to go off pills, but his health went to shit, people suspected it was pain and withdrawal, then KJ gave in again getting those 15 percocet, and then realized P had gotten other pills elsewhere..and was like "Oh, no, not this shit again".  We don't know the ins and outs and ups and down's of this shit.  We also shouldn't assume that P didn't take his own actions to get pills. He was carrying his own bags, he did have disguised bottles in those bags, he did have a vault with cash in it.  He wasn't an invalid. He knew a lot of celebrities and others musicians other than Kirk Johnson and despite the looks of Paisley at the end of his life, his last two years weren't necessarily the same as the last weeks of severe denial.  I was just watching the clips from his Baltimore concert for Peace in May of 2015. He knew a lot of frigging people. For all we know, he got drugs from doug e. fresh (doubtful, I am just throwing out one of many celebrities he knew and had casual friendships with.). 


 


 


Image result for Prince st. barts


 


Image result for Prince st. barts



precioux said:


cloveringold85 said:

 


.


Kirk was an enabler; that's why he got a lawyer.  He said that Prince was very private.  


.


No one can convince me that Kirk did not know Prince was addicted to opiates.  Kirk did not see all those bottles of pills in various rooms?  Nope, sorry -- not buying that for one second!!  disbelief


.


B.S.!! mad



Page 32 of the transcripts (last paragraph),JH states that at the memorial KJ said “he knew all along”. Same paragraph, she said Prince asked in a prior conversation with KJ if he “would continue the shows if he (Prince) was not here.

 


Prince knew a lot of different people and knew many famous faces, in the investagative files Manuela said during their marriage prince's drug dealer was a well known producer, this same producer tried to attend the memorial she put together but she blocked him/her from going. Who knows where prince got those pills
[Edited 5/13/18 11:35am]

I also wanted to add is that certain people weren't around him 24/7
Reply #183 posted 05/13/18 1:49pm

PennyPurple

bondno9 said:

So Housequake on Twitter is encouraging the ORG (and others) to RT or follow in their footsteps to block and bann Prince 'fams' still claiming that Prince was killed by WB or believes in some kind of consipracy that resulted in Prince's death. In additon, those who claim or believe need to get a reality check and move on! confused

Seriously? WTH. sad

Reply #184 posted 05/13/18 2:05pm

LilaLiebe

bondno9 said:

So Housequake on Twitter is encouraging the ORG (and others) to RT or follow in their footsteps to block and bann Prince 'fams' still claiming that Prince was killed by WB or believes in some kind of consipracy that resulted in Prince's death. In additon, those who claim or believe need to get a reality check and move on! confused

clapping

An old soul
Reply #185 posted 05/13/18 2:24pm

zenarose

cloveringold85 said:

PeteSilas said:

what makes you say that? i haven't made my way past page 75 myself.

.

Kirk was an enabler; that's why he got a lawyer. He said that Prince was very private.

.

No one can convince me that Kirk did not know Prince was addicted to opiates. Kirk did not see all those bottles of pills in various rooms? Nope, sorry -- not buying that for one second!! disbelief

.

B.S.!! mad

OK Clover... Let's go with that thought for a moment..... hmmm hmmm hmmm

IF and I say "IF", KJ had no idea that P was addicted to opiates, then WHY on the morning of 4/14 did he get 2 prescriptions for pain meds from 2 different doctors? And WHY did he have those scripts filled at 2 different pharmacies??? In my opinion, KJ dang well knew!! Either that or HE is the one with the addiction. This wasn't his first time. He was experienced at this as he knew exactly what to do. I agree with you on " KJ not knowing"... that is pure doody doody doody I don't believe that KJ was alone in this fiasco, there were a few others. They are all culpable in this. I don't know what the statutes are in other states but in the Texas Penal Code Culpability it states

"A person commits an offense if he/she INTENTIONALLY, KNOWINGLY, RECKLESSLY, WILLINGLY, OR WITH CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE". If the investigation had been handled differently with experienced detectives there may have been grand jury indictments.

I have been lurking on a site that does research in chemical use. U47700, Fentanyl, ect. after spending maybe 5 hours on this site, I found web addresses to several suppliers that make Watson 853 laced with fent by buttloads. They were also discussing "presses". Why can't the DEA and CCSO find these sites??? That's a damn head scratcher.......

Sorry for rambling. So much info in my head headache headache headache

[Edited 5/13/18 16:49pm]

Reply #186 posted 05/13/18 3:01pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2

I remember right after he passed laura posted a video that Meron had posted on her social media at around 11 p.m. On the night of the 20th. At the time this was discussed we did not know that Meron was at paisley on the night of the 20th. So we now know she more than likely posted that video as she was leaving paisley. It was her, Meron, in her car crying and very upset and singing a song in her native language. I would be curious to know the subject matter of the song, and find it interesting that she would post something so emotional as she was leaving, especially because according to the investigation docs no one ever tried to contact prince that night...why would she be sobbing on camera? I don't know how to find that stuff, maybe someone out there can repost it...just wonder about all of it now...
Reply #187 posted 05/13/18 3:02pm

bondno9

PennyPurple said:

bondno9 said:

So Housequake on Twitter is encouraging the ORG (and others) to RT or follow in their footsteps to block and bann Prince 'fams' still claiming that Prince was killed by WB or believes in some kind of consipracy that resulted in Prince's death. In additon, those who claim or believe need to get a reality check and move on! confused

Seriously? WTH. sad

Exactly. Whatever. If they don't like what people are posting in their fan community via Twitter, FB, IG, whatever, That's THEIR community. But don't go starting drama simply because you don't like what's being said. no no no!

Reply #188 posted 05/13/18 3:19pm

PeteSilas

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

I remember right after he passed laura posted a video that Meron had posted on her social media at around 11 p.m. On the night of the 20th. At the time this was discussed we did not know that Meron was at paisley on the night of the 20th. So we now know she more than likely posted that video as she was leaving paisley. It was her, Meron, in her car crying and very upset and singing a song in her native language. I would be curious to know the subject matter of the song, and find it interesting that she would post something so emotional as she was leaving, especially because according to the investigation docs no one ever tried to contact prince that night...why would she be sobbing on camera? I don't know how to find that stuff, maybe someone out there can repost it...just wonder about all of it now...

are you sure? the "shots fired at paisley" sounds as if it were debunked. we shouldn't have gotten rid of laura.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #189 posted 05/13/18 3:23pm

precioux

bondno9 said:

 



cloveringold85 said:


 



bondno9 said:


Why didn't they issue a warrant for Kirk Johnson's residence??? They found scripts issued in his name but didn't search his residence??? DUMB DUMB!!!



.


Good question!  Kirk was manager of PP and had full-access to that place, 24/7.  The fact that they did not conduct a search warrant on his residence is beyond me!


.


He was giving Percocet to Prince, which was prescribed in Kirk's name, so there is no telling what else he was giving him. rolleyes


.


Kirk said he dropped Prince off around 8PM, but Meron stated that she and Kirk left around 10:30PM.  eek


.


Kirk & Meron picked up Andrew at his hotel on the 21st, and went for Breakfast, while Prince was in dire need of medical attention.  Does this sound like they were worried about Prince?   mad  confused


.


 


 


[Edited 5/12/18 15:50pm]



 


He probably also had access to a computer at home ... but they solely focused on Prince's laptop.  Also, Prince had a desktop in the upstairs office I believe.  That should have also been seized.


 


-


 


The morning timeline of the 21st is still bothering me.  A significant amount of time unaccounted for.  In reviewing KJ'S cell phone records it looks like Andrew made several attempts to contact Kirk after landing from 6:22 a.m. - 7:42 a.m.  I"m going to assume Kirk didn't p/u him up until after 7:42 a.m.  Kirk then made two phone calls at 7:49 a.m. and 7:51 a.m. to Prince's bedroom and kitchen. After that no more attempts.  What's even more strange is that Andrew didn't check in until 8:45 a.m.  So what was going on between Andrew, Kirk, and Meron from 7:42 a.m. - 8:45 a.m. Andrew says that Kirk and Meron check him into the hotel and then they had breakfast.  So, they had breakfast for maybe 15 mins? 8:45 a.m. - 9:00 a.m.  and then headed for Paisley arriving at 9:15 a.m. approximately according to Andrew  hmmm


 


--


 


Andrew was taking to an office on the West side of the building.  It was a larger office located off one of the larger recording studios.  Yet, he was able to hear Meron scream and find his way towards the elevator? 


 


--


 


Also, Kirk stated looking in the black bag after the emergency landing but only finding medicine/prescription for something called Nyozen or something like that but couldn't remember the name ... UMM HMM 




In regards to the computers- JH was also asked about a “red laptop”. She knew about the thin silver MacBook laptop and the desktop in his office that “he would get up in the middle of the night” to send emails because he never slept through the night, but apparently there was a red laptop-anyone??
Reply #190 posted 05/13/18 3:24pm

precioux

bondno9 said:

1. Why didn't they obtain a search warrant for Kirk Johnson's residence??? They found scripts issued in his name but didn't search his residence??? DUMB DUMB!!!


2. Also where was the Percocet that Dr. S. prescribed in KJ's name? It obviously wasn't found at Paisley or any of Prince's possessions. So what happened to it?  

[Edited 5/12/18 15:45pm]




If I’m not mistaken, 10 of the 15 Percocet were found
Reply #191 posted 05/13/18 3:25pm

cloveringold85

zenarose said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Kirk was an enabler; that's why he got a lawyer. He said that Prince was very private.

.

No one can convince me that Kirk did not know Prince was addicted to opiates. Kirk did not see all those bottles of pills in various rooms? Nope, sorry -- not buying that for one second!! disbelief

.

B.S.!! mad

OK Clover... Let's go with that thought for a moment..... hmmm hmmm hmmm

IF and I say "IF", KJ had no idea that P was addicted to opiates, then WHY on the morning of 4/20 did he get 2 prescriptions for pain meds from 2 different doctors? And WHY did he have those scripts filled at 2 different pharmacies??? In my opinion, KJ dang well knew!! Either that or HE is the one with the addiction. This wasn't his first time. He was experienced at this as he knew exactly what to do. I agree with you on " KJ not knowing"... that is pure doody doody doody I don't believe that KJ was alone in this fiasco, there were a few others. They are all culpable in this. I don't know what the statutes are in other states but in the Texas Penal Code Culpability it states

"A person commits an offense if he/she INTENTIONALLY, KNOWINGLY, RECKLESSLY, WILLINGLY, OR WITH CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE". If the investigation had been handled differently with experienced detectives there may have been grand jury indictments.

I have been lurking on a site that does research in chemical use. U47700, Fentanyl, ect. after spending maybe 5 hours on this site, I found web addresses to several suppliers that make Watson 853 laced with fent by buttloads. They were also discussing "presses". Why can't the DEA and CCSO find these sites??? That's a damn head scratcher.......

Sorry for rambling. So much info in my head headache headache headache

.

Hey, Zena! You've been MIA lately! lol

.

KJ knew what was going on. Phaedra and Meron knew too. Did Prince seek-out these illicit pills on his own? He must have had a trusted source; either that, of KJ was facilitating the pills for him. The 20th & 21st just reek of foul-play, imo.

.

KJ said the morning of the 21st did not feel right and Andrew noted that KJ was acting nervous when they went searching for Prince. Kirk knows where Prince slept at night, so why didn't get his ass upstairs and knock on the damn door??!! You just have to wonder what is wrong with these people??!! In the amount of time they were prancing up and down the corridor at PP, they could have found Prince. The fact that they took the time to eat breakfast is another big head-scratcher!! confuse disbelief

.

Amazing, you were able to find those sites, but the DEA can't? confused hmmm

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #192 posted 05/13/18 3:31pm

precioux

Strawberrylova123 said:

purplerabbithole said:

I don't doubt that he "knew" all along. I am just wondering what exactly "knew" meant. Maybe he used to pick up pills for p in his name, then stopped and P seemed to go off pills, but his health went to shit, people suspected it was pain and withdrawal, then KJ gave in again getting those 15 percocet, and then realized P had gotten other pills elsewhere..and was like "Oh, no, not this shit again".  We don't know the ins and outs and ups and down's of this shit.  We also shouldn't assume that P didn't take his own actions to get pills. He was carrying his own bags, he did have disguised bottles in those bags, he did have a vault with cash in it.  He wasn't an invalid. He knew a lot of celebrities and others musicians other than Kirk Johnson and despite the looks of Paisley at the end of his life, his last two years weren't necessarily the same as the last weeks of severe denial.  I was just watching the clips from his Baltimore concert for Peace in May of 2015. He knew a lot of frigging people. For all we know, he got drugs from doug e. fresh (doubtful, I am just throwing out one of many celebrities he knew and had casual friendships with.). 


 


 


Image result for Prince st. barts


 


Image result for Prince st. barts



precioux said:


cloveringold85 said:

 


.


Kirk was an enabler; that's why he got a lawyer.  He said that Prince was very private.  


.


No one can convince me that Kirk did not know Prince was addicted to opiates.  Kirk did not see all those bottles of pills in various rooms?  Nope, sorry -- not buying that for one second!!  disbelief


.


B.S.!! mad



Page 32 of the transcripts (last paragraph),JH states that at the memorial KJ said “he knew all along”. Same paragraph, she said Prince asked in a prior conversation with KJ if he “would continue the shows if he (Prince) was not here.

 


Prince knew a lot of different people and knew many famous faces, in the investagative files Manuela said during their marriage prince's drug dealer was a well known producer, this same producer tried to attend the memorial she put together but she blocked him/her from going. Who knows where prince got those pills
[Edited 5/13/18 11:35am]




Lest we not forget that the “little black bag” has been known for a long time. Mayte thought he may have even carried his will in it, but nevertheless, it always had cash in it and went with him wherever he went. This was stated in Maytes book.
Reply #193 posted 05/13/18 3:31pm

PennyPurple

bondno9 said:

PennyPurple said:

Seriously? WTH. sad

Exactly. Whatever. If they don't like what people are posting in their fan community via Twitter, FB, IG, whatever, That's THEIR community. But don't go starting drama simply because you don't like what's being said. no no no!

Yeah, and don't go suggesting that every other social media do the same just because they are. Oh well, to each their own.

Reply #194 posted 05/13/18 3:31pm

cloveringold85

Bondno9 said something that poses yet another red flag:

.

Kirk then made two phone calls at 7:49 a.m. and 7:51 a.m. to Prince's bedroom and kitchen. After that no more attempts.

.

Now, why didn't he keep calling Prince's room, or get his ass up there and knock on the damn door? confused mad

.

The investigators let this case slip right through their hands like sand!! disbelief

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #195 posted 05/13/18 3:36pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2

PeteSilas said:

 



LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:


I remember right after he passed laura posted a video that Meron had posted on her social media at around 11 p.m. On the night of the 20th. At the time this was discussed we did not know that Meron was at paisley on the night of the 20th. So we now know she more than likely posted that video as she was leaving paisley. It was her, Meron, in her car crying and very upset and singing a song in her native language. I would be curious to know the subject matter of the song, and find it interesting that she would post something so emotional as she was leaving, especially because according to the investigation docs no one ever tried to contact prince that night...why would she be sobbing on camera? I don't know how to find that stuff, maybe someone out there can repost it...just wonder about all of it now...

are you sure?  the "shots fired at paisley" sounds as if it were debunked.  we shouldn't have gotten rid of laura.




Yes I remember it for sure and laura was the one that posted it. I also remember it just got lost in all the details at the time and no one really said much about it...I would really like to see that post again, but I have no idea how to find it
Reply #196 posted 05/13/18 3:36pm

Strawberrylova123

precioux said:

Strawberrylova123 said:


Prince knew a lot of different people and knew many famous faces, in the investagative files Manuela said during their marriage prince's drug dealer was a well known producer, this same producer tried to attend the memorial she put together but she blocked him/her from going. Who knows where prince got those pills
[Edited 5/13/18 11:35am]


Yep! And also mayte mentions that prince had aspirin bottles

Lest we not forget that the “little black bag” has been known for a long time. Mayte thought he may have even carried his will in it, but nevertheless, it always had cash in it and went with him wherever he went. This was stated in Maytes book.
Reply #197 posted 05/13/18 3:39pm

precioux

cloveringold85 said:

Bondno9 said something that poses yet another red flag:


.


Kirk then made two phone calls at 7:49 a.m. and 7:51 a.m. to Prince's bedroom and kitchen. After that no more attempts. 


.


Now, why didn't he keep calling Prince's room, or get his ass up there and knock on the damn door?  confused mad


.


The investigators let this case slip right through their hands like sand!!   disbelief


 


 


 


 



Because, and I quote Kirky was “waiting for him to wake up to give him something to take the edge off/get rid of the jitters”
Reply #198 posted 05/13/18 4:21pm

bondno9

precioux said:

bondno9 said:

1. Why didn't they obtain a search warrant for Kirk Johnson's residence??? They found scripts issued in his name but didn't search his residence??? DUMB DUMB!!!

2. Also where was the Percocet that Dr. S. prescribed in KJ's name? It obviously wasn't found at Paisley or any of Prince's possessions. So what happened to it?

[Edited 5/12/18 15:45pm]

If I’m not mistaken, 10 of the 15 Percocet were found

I have a headache.com. According to Dr. S, the prescription from 4-14-16 was Percocet 5-325 and 15 pills. This is proven by the RX History Report. Now this is where it gets weird. In the bedroom/mirror/dressing room which adjoins the green room they discovered a dark colored bag. Inside, were two prescriptions in KJ's name and prescribed by Dr. S on 4-7-16. One was labeled Vitamin D2 and contained (7) green capsules and (8) oval yellow pills believed to be Ondansetron Hydrochloride 8 mg which is used to prevent nausea and vomiting. The SECOND bottle located in the suitcase in KJ's name was prescribed on 4-7-16 by Dr. S. The bottle was labeled Ondansetron HC. Inside of the bottle was one yellow pill identifed as Ondansetron Hydrochloride 8 mg. There were also eight whole white round pills along with four halves. The white round pills were identified as acetaminophen oxycodone hydrochloride 325 mg (Percocet). So the SECOND bottle contained the Percocet frm 4-14-16 but was mixed in with a script from 4-7-16?? If true, what happened to the original prescription bottle from 4/14??? Why were the pills mixed in and not kept in original bottle? hmmm

Reply #199 posted 05/13/18 4:35pm

PennyPurple

Don't forget about the script that Kirk's dentist wrote.

Reply #200 posted 05/13/18 4:38pm

Bodhitheblackdog

PeteSilas said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

I remember right after he passed laura posted a video that Meron had posted on her social media at around 11 p.m. On the night of the 20th. At the time this was discussed we did not know that Meron was at paisley on the night of the 20th. So we now know she more than likely posted that video as she was leaving paisley. It was her, Meron, in her car crying and very upset and singing a song in her native language. I would be curious to know the subject matter of the song, and find it interesting that she would post something so emotional as she was leaving, especially because according to the investigation docs no one ever tried to contact prince that night...why would she be sobbing on camera? I don't know how to find that stuff, maybe someone out there can repost it...just wonder about all of it now...

are you sure? the "shots fired at paisley" sounds as if it were debunked. we shouldn't have gotten rid of laura.

You realize, Pete, you're speaking for yourself.

Reply #201 posted 05/13/18 4:38pm

Krystalkisses

I wonder what would have happened if Prince's people staged an intervention with him. Like the set up on that A& E show Intervention.
Reply #202 posted 05/13/18 4:52pm

zenarose

cloveringold85 said:

zenarose said:

OK Clover... Let's go with that thought for a moment..... hmmm hmmm hmmm

IF and I say "IF", KJ had no idea that P was addicted to opiates, then WHY on the morning of 4/20 did he get 2 prescriptions for pain meds from 2 different doctors? And WHY did he have those scripts filled at 2 different pharmacies??? In my opinion, KJ dang well knew!! Either that or HE is the one with the addiction. This wasn't his first time. He was experienced at this as he knew exactly what to do. I agree with you on " KJ not knowing"... that is pure doody doody doody I don't believe that KJ was alone in this fiasco, there were a few others. They are all culpable in this. I don't know what the statutes are in other states but in the Texas Penal Code Culpability it states

"A person commits an offense if he/she INTENTIONALLY, KNOWINGLY, RECKLESSLY, WILLINGLY, OR WITH CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE". If the investigation had been handled differently with experienced detectives there may have been grand jury indictments.

I have been lurking on a site that does research in chemical use. U47700, Fentanyl, ect. after spending maybe 5 hours on this site, I found web addresses to several suppliers that make Watson 853 laced with fent by buttloads. They were also discussing "presses". Why can't the DEA and CCSO find these sites??? That's a damn head scratcher.......

Sorry for rambling. So much info in my head headache headache headache

.

Hey, Zena! You've been MIA lately! lol

.

KJ knew what was going on. Phaedra and Meron knew too. Did Prince seek-out these illicit pills on his own? He must have had a trusted source; either that, of KJ was facilitating the pills for him. The 20th & 21st just reek of foul-play, imo.

.

KJ said the morning of the 21st did not feel right and Andrew noted that KJ was acting nervous when they went searching for Prince. Kirk knows where Prince slept at night, so why didn't get his ass upstairs and knock on the damn door??!! You just have to wonder what is wrong with these people??!! In the amount of time they were prancing up and down the corridor at PP, they could have found Prince. The fact that they took the time to eat breakfast is another big head-scratcher!! confuse disbelief

.

Amazing, you were able to find those sites, but the DEA can't? confused hmmm

Hey Clover!! I had to edit my post because I initialy listed the date KJ got scripts as 4/20. I changed it to 4/14. LOL too many exit and onramps in my head today. err

Reply #203 posted 05/13/18 4:53pm

stlmuziqlvr

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PeteSilas said:

are you sure? the "shots fired at paisley" sounds as if it were debunked. we shouldn't have gotten rid of laura.

You realize, Pete, you're speaking for yourself.

No, he's not.

Reply #204 posted 05/13/18 4:55pm

cloveringold85

precioux said:

cloveringold85 said:

Bondno9 said something that poses yet another red flag:

.

Kirk then made two phone calls at 7:49 a.m. and 7:51 a.m. to Prince's bedroom and kitchen. After that no more attempts.

.

Now, why didn't he keep calling Prince's room, or get his ass up there and knock on the damn door? confused mad

.

The investigators let this case slip right through their hands like sand!! disbelief

Because, and I quote Kirky was “waiting for him to wake up to give him something to take the edge off/get rid of the jitters”

.

Yea, another red flag. Something to take the edge off? Hmmm.....almost seems like this was routine for Kirk or something....... hmmm

.

What did he mean by that? What was he planning to give Prince to "take the edge off"? confused eek

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #205 posted 05/13/18 4:55pm

zenarose

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

PeteSilas said:

are you sure? the "shots fired at paisley" sounds as if it were debunked. we shouldn't have gotten rid of laura.

Yes I remember it for sure and laura was the one that posted it. I also remember it just got lost in all the details at the time and no one really said much about it...I would really like to see that post again, but I have no idea how to find it

Do you remember if it was a post on Twitter or Instagram?? Maybe we could backtrack through the posts although it may take a bit.

[Edited 5/13/18 18:05pm]

Reply #206 posted 05/13/18 4:59pm

cloveringold85

bondno9 said:

precioux said:

bondno9 said: If I’m not mistaken, 10 of the 15 Percocet were found

I have a headache.com. According to Dr. S, the prescription from 4-14-16 was Percocet 5-325 and 15 pills. This is proven by the RX History Report. Now this is where it gets weird. In the bedroom/mirror/dressing room which adjoins the green room they discovered a dark colored bag. Inside, were two prescriptions in KJ's name and prescribed by Dr. S on 4-7-16. One was labeled Vitamin D2 and contained (7) green capsules and (8) oval yellow pills believed to be Ondansetron Hydrochloride 8 mg which is used to prevent nausea and vomiting. The SECOND bottle located in the suitcase in KJ's name was prescribed on 4-7-16 by Dr. S. The bottle was labeled Ondansetron HC. Inside of the bottle was one yellow pill identifed as Ondansetron Hydrochloride 8 mg. There were also eight whole white round pills along with four halves. The white round pills were identified as acetaminophen oxycodone hydrochloride 325 mg (Percocet). So the SECOND bottle contained the Percocet frm 4-14-16 but was mixed in with a script from 4-7-16?? If true, what happened to the original prescription bottle from 4/14??? Why were the pills mixed in and not kept in original bottle? hmmm

.

Thanks for being so detailed. Very interesting that the pills were mixed, but why? Why would anyone mix Rx's? That's just crazy!! eek nuts

.

I mean, even when I take my vitamins, I look to see what I'm taking! neutral

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #207 posted 05/13/18 4:59pm

PennyPurple

stlmuziqlvr said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

You realize, Pete, you're speaking for yourself.

No, he's not.

Yeah he is. Unless you want him to speak for you.

Reply #208 posted 05/13/18 4:59pm

cloveringold85

PennyPurple said:

Don't forget about the script that Kirk's dentist wrote.

.

Yes, yes!! yes yes nod

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #209 posted 05/13/18 5:04pm

cloveringold85

Krystalkisses said:

I wonder what would have happened if Prince's people staged an intervention with him. Like the set up on that A& E show Intervention.

.

Good Lord! Those people are incapable of doing any such thing! Sorry to sound so insensitive, but it's the truth!! I would not want any of these people working on my behalf or in-charge of getting me medical treatment!! No thanks! disbelief

.

What should have happened is Dr. Schulenberg should have grabbed the bull by the horn and said to Kirk: "Look, we gotta get Prince into treatment NOW!"" mad mad

.

If I was a doctor, that's what I would do -- otherwise, I would want nothing to do with it -- just not worth risking your career over. No. disbelief

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #210 posted 05/13/18 5:06pm

cloveringold85

zenarose said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Hey, Zena! You've been MIA lately! lol

.

KJ knew what was going on. Phaedra and Meron knew too. Did Prince seek-out these illicit pills on his own? He must have had a trusted source; either that, of KJ was facilitating the pills for him. The 20th & 21st just reek of foul-play, imo.

.

KJ said the morning of the 21st did not feel right and Andrew noted that KJ was acting nervous when they went searching for Prince. Kirk knows where Prince slept at night, so why didn't get his ass upstairs and knock on the damn door??!! You just have to wonder what is wrong with these people??!! In the amount of time they were prancing up and down the corridor at PP, they could have found Prince. The fact that they took the time to eat breakfast is another big head-scratcher!! confuse disbelief

.

Amazing, you were able to find those sites, but the DEA can't? confused hmmm

Hey Clover!! I had to edit my post because I initialy listed the date KJ got scripts as 4/20. I changed it to 4/14. LOL too many exit and onramps in my head today. err

.

It's understandable. wink

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #211 posted 05/13/18 5:06pm

ThatWhiteDude

PennyPurple said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

No, he's not.

Yeah he is. Unless you want him to speak for you.

yeahthat

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
Reply #212 posted 05/13/18 5:07pm

ThatWhiteDude

PennyPurple said:

Don't forget about the script that Kirk's dentist wrote.

Did I miss something? I haven't been on this thread for a while tho, what script? eek

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
Reply #213 posted 05/13/18 5:09pm

cloveringold85

zenarose said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

PeteSilas said: Yes I remember it for sure and laura was the one that posted it. I also remember it just got lost in all the details at the time and no one really said much about it...I would really like to see that post again, but I have no idea how to find it

Do you remember if it was a post on Twitter or Instagram?? Maybe we could backtrack through the osts although it may take a bit.

.

We've already tried, to no avail. It was a lot of hearsay, but no real proof that it actually happened. CNN has their transcripts online, but there is nothing there about shots being fired at Paisley. I guess we will just have to throw that one into the big crystal ball of mystery!! neutral

.

[Edited 5/13/18 17:57pm]

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #214 posted 05/13/18 5:10pm

cloveringold85

PennyPurple said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

No, he's not.

Yeah he is. Unless you want him to speak for you.

.

Sorry, I had to laugh at that one! lol

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #215 posted 05/13/18 5:13pm

cloveringold85

ThatWhiteDude said:

PennyPurple said:

Don't forget about the script that Kirk's dentist wrote.

Did I miss something? I haven't been on this thread for a while tho, what script? eek

.

Hey, WD! We've missed you around these parts! cool

.

Per the docs, Kirky called up his Dentist on the day they were heading to ATL (April 14th), and he asked his dentist for something to help with his tooth pain for a cracked tooth.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #216 posted 05/13/18 5:20pm

cloveringold85

I was thinking about the pills that were found in Prince's room (Green Room) in his black bag--and, the fact that there were no other pills in his room, but they were scattered around in various other rooms in various bottles -- it just does not strike me at all as something Prince would do. Why would he have them out, in plain sight and not hidden? Usually an addict will hide everything. I mean, someone (i.e. Kirk) would have seen them, or at least the cleaning lady, or whatever. I just find it very odd. neutral eek

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #217 posted 05/13/18 5:22pm

ThatWhiteDude

cloveringold85 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Did I miss something? I haven't been on this thread for a while tho, what script? eek

.

Hey, WD! We've missed you around these parts! cool

.

Per the docs, Kirky called up his Dentist on the day they were heading to ATL (April 14th), and he asked his dentist for something to help with his tooth pain for a cracked tooth.

Hey Clover, I missed ya'll 2 smile Thanks for the update, there's been so much info that I probably failed to see it when I read the docs.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
Reply #218 posted 05/13/18 5:24pm

PennyPurple

ThatWhiteDude said:

PennyPurple said:

Don't forget about the script that Kirk's dentist wrote.

Did I miss something? I haven't been on this thread for a while tho, what script? eek

Kirk had a cracked tooth and had an appointment with his dentist to get it fixed. He had to go to Atlanta with Prince and had to cancel at the last minute. He asked his dentist for a script for pain pills and she gave it to him. When the dentist found out about Moline she called Kirk cuz she was pissed about the pills she gave him. She advised Kirk to get him into rehab.


Heck thinking back about the dentist, it seems like she cared more then P's friends/employees did.

Reply #219 posted 05/13/18 5:25pm

Bodhitheblackdog

ThatWhiteDude said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Hey, WD! We've missed you around these parts! cool

.

Per the docs, Kirky called up his Dentist on the day they were heading to ATL (April 14th), and he asked his dentist for something to help with his tooth pain for a cracked tooth.

Hey Clover, I missed ya'll 2 smile Thanks for the update, there's been so much info that I probably failed to see it when I read the docs.

WD is Back!!!!! yes xoxo

Reply #220 posted 05/13/18 5:26pm

Krystalkisses

cloveringold85 said:

 



Krystalkisses said:


I wonder what would have happened if Prince's people staged an intervention with him. Like the set up on that A& E show Intervention.

.


Good Lord!  Those people are incapable of doing any such thing!  Sorry to sound so insensitive, but it's the truth!!  I would not want any of these people working on my behalf or in-charge of getting me medical treatment!!  No thanks!  disbelief


.


What should have happened is Dr. Schulenberg should have grabbed the bull by the horn and said to  Kirk:  "Look, we gotta get Prince into treatment NOW!"" mad mad


.


If I was a doctor, that's what I would do -- otherwise, I would want nothing to do with it -- just not worth risking your career over.  No.  disbelief


 


 


 


 



I know. I can't believe the doctor was willing to take such a risk. I can only imagine his sense of dread when he showed up to PP that morning by coincidence seeing the police there. If I were him I would have felt like I was in deep shit right then, right there.
[Edited 5/13/18 17:27pm]
Reply #221 posted 05/13/18 5:28pm

ThatWhiteDude

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Did I miss something? I haven't been on this thread for a while tho, what script? eek

Kirk had a cracked tooth and had an appointment with his dentist to get it fixed. He had to go to Atlanta with Prince and had to cancel at the last minute. He asked his dentist for a script for pain pills and she gave it to him. When the dentist found out about Moline she called Kirk cuz she was pissed about the pills she gave him. She advised Kirk to get him into rehab.


Heck thinking back about the dentist, it seems like she cared more then P's friends/employees did.

This is exactly the reason why I took a pause from this thread, the whole thing is just too depressing sad

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
Reply #222 posted 05/13/18 5:28pm

PennyPurple

Bodhitheblackdog said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Hey Clover, I missed ya'll 2 smile Thanks for the update, there's been so much info that I probably failed to see it when I read the docs.

WD is Back!!!!! yes xoxo

About time he's back. I start to worry when I don't see the regulars on the forum for a few days.

Reply #223 posted 05/13/18 5:29pm

ThatWhiteDude

Bodhitheblackdog said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Hey Clover, I missed ya'll 2 smile Thanks for the update, there's been so much info that I probably failed to see it when I read the docs.

WD is Back!!!!! yes xoxo

hug hug

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
Reply #224 posted 05/13/18 5:30pm

ThatWhiteDude

PennyPurple said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

WD is Back!!!!! yes xoxo

About time he's back. I start to worry when I don't see the regulars on the forum for a few days.

I was here but not on this thread tho, I just needed a break from all of that. hug

[Edited 5/13/18 17:40pm]

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
Reply #225 posted 05/13/18 5:58pm

cloveringold85

ThatWhiteDude said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Hey, WD! We've missed you around these parts! cool

.

Per the docs, Kirky called up his Dentist on the day they were heading to ATL (April 14th), and he asked his dentist for something to help with his tooth pain for a cracked tooth.

Hey Clover, I missed ya'll 2 smile Thanks for the update, there's been so much info that I probably failed to see it when I read the docs.

.

You're not alone. I've had to go back and re-read stuff. I have to stop when my eyes start to burn! LOL lol

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #226 posted 05/13/18 6:00pm

cloveringold85

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Did I miss something? I haven't been on this thread for a while tho, what script? eek

Kirk had a cracked tooth and had an appointment with his dentist to get it fixed. He had to go to Atlanta with Prince and had to cancel at the last minute. He asked his dentist for a script for pain pills and she gave it to him. When the dentist found out about Moline she called Kirk cuz she was pissed about the pills she gave him. She advised Kirk to get him into rehab.


Heck thinking back about the dentist, it seems like she cared more then P's friends/employees did.

.

Yes, she was mad!! mad

.

Then, Kirk tells her he's gonna take Prince to see his doctor, and we know how well that went. rolleyes

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #227 posted 05/13/18 6:04pm

zenarose

bondno9 said:

precioux said:

bondno9 said: If I’m not mistaken, 10 of the 15 Percocet were found

I have a headache.com. According to Dr. S, the prescription from 4-14-16 was Percocet 5-325 and 15 pills. This is proven by the RX History Report. Now this is where it gets weird. In the bedroom/mirror/dressing room which adjoins the green room they discovered a dark colored bag. Inside, were two prescriptions in KJ's name and prescribed by Dr. S on 4-7-16. One was labeled Vitamin D2 and contained (7) green capsules and (8) oval yellow pills believed to be Ondansetron Hydrochloride 8 mg which is used to prevent nausea and vomiting. The SECOND bottle located in the suitcase in KJ's name was prescribed on 4-7-16 by Dr. S. The bottle was labeled Ondansetron HC. Inside of the bottle was one yellow pill identifed as Ondansetron Hydrochloride 8 mg. There were also eight whole white round pills along with four halves. The white round pills were identified as acetaminophen oxycodone hydrochloride 325 mg (Percocet). So the SECOND bottle contained the Percocet frm 4-14-16 but was mixed in with a script from 4-7-16?? If true, what happened to the original prescription bottle from 4/14??? Why were the pills mixed in and not kept in original bottle? hmmm

Exactly!!! When detectives went dumpster diving after the weekend memorial service at PP the scripts to KJ were found. They... PEL,TN, KJ, MB and whoever else were smooth cleaning out PP in a sonic rush. I mean looking at the pics of the items found in the dumpster tore me up. They wasted no time throwing away his contacts, solution, shampoo, lotions, ect. Imma tell ya my mother has been gone for 3 years and there are still things that we have not and cannot go through even now. They were some cold blooded SOB's and that don't stand for short of breath!!!! Something else that is a bit confusing is that I found in looking at the pics in the Electronics Records, I figured out that I had to look at the date each pic was taken. Im separating them into 4/21-5/9 folder and 5/10-5/12 folder. In the first pics of PP it looks fairly well kept in most locations. In the pics taken when the feds went back, it was a mess from what appears that someone was going through each room and packing things up. Each room was photographed as they entered, so according to the pics it was a mess before the feds got there. An example of this would be say the conference room and P's office. In the first pics it was tidy but when the feds went back the pics show things piled all over the table, counters, and floor. I went through the list of "drugs" found at PP. I still get a bit confused about how they were scattered haphazardly and then there were the pills that were found in white plastic wrap in a jewelry box. If you put yourself "outside looking in", you would think that the person who lives there is a very health minded individual. There were bottles on end of vitamins and supplements. There was even natural male enhacement supplements. Looking in the fridge, you see a very healthy eater. 5 hours, gensing, ect. for energy. There were a few nasal sprays and every box (not in the trash) of enimas were opened which seemed strange to me. There were leaks early on that P had U47700 in his system at autopsy. From my research I found that this can be administered several ways. Snorting, orally, nasal spray, plugging. Now if I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say that someone could have spiked nasal spray, or used a small needle and spiked the Fleets. If he were using this of his own accord, most likely he would have used the nasal or plugging method as it is the path that is the least painful when mixed with water. It is said that the U47700 burns.

It is just so hard to think that as much of a "perfectionist" Prince was that he didn't keep his meds straight. That just doesn't compute. I lost a very dear friend to an overdose. He was very picky about his pills. Maybe not so much everything else but he had his meds just so.

Reply #228 posted 05/13/18 6:06pm

cloveringold85

Krystalkisses said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Good Lord! Those people are incapable of doing any such thing! Sorry to sound so insensitive, but it's the truth!! I would not want any of these people working on my behalf or in-charge of getting me medical treatment!! No thanks! disbelief

.

What should have happened is Dr. Schulenberg should have grabbed the bull by the horn and said to Kirk: "Look, we gotta get Prince into treatment NOW!"" mad mad

.

If I was a doctor, that's what I would do -- otherwise, I would want nothing to do with it -- just not worth risking your career over. No. disbelief

I know. I can't believe the doctor was willing to take such a risk. I can only imagine his sense of dread when he showed up to PP that morning by coincidence seeing the police there. If I were him I would have felt like I was in deep shit right then, right there. [Edited 5/13/18 17:27pm]

.

You just have to shake your head at this stuff, because it is so unbelievable!! disbelief

.

Dr. Shulenberg has been Kirk's doctor a long time, so I'm sure he was well-aware of Kirk's association with Prince.

.

I do feel bad for Dr. Schulenberg and he said he didn't want to be a "celebrity" doctor. neutral

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #229 posted 05/13/18 6:07pm

cloveringold85

ThatWhiteDude said:

PennyPurple said:

Kirk had a cracked tooth and had an appointment with his dentist to get it fixed. He had to go to Atlanta with Prince and had to cancel at the last minute. He asked his dentist for a script for pain pills and she gave it to him. When the dentist found out about Moline she called Kirk cuz she was pissed about the pills she gave him. She advised Kirk to get him into rehab.


Heck thinking back about the dentist, it seems like she cared more then P's friends/employees did.

This is exactly the reason why I took a pause from this thread, the whole thing is just too depressing sad

.

I know. sad hug

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #230 posted 05/13/18 6:50pm

zenarose

Hey Clover if you have the 214 page file scroll down to the heading CONCERT HALL ROOM A2 GARBAGE CAN. Start with item #123.

This was "After" the weekend memorial that was on that Saturday or Sunday. Evidentally it was thought the cops were long gone and no worries. Anyway, give it a look. It will twist your head!!

Reply #231 posted 05/13/18 7:03pm

stlmuziqlvr

Pete I are not alone in thinking Laura contributed to the org. as others have replied in the past. Whether you like her or agree with what she brought, she was definitely here for Prince and that’s becoming a rare commodity.

PennyPurple said:

 



stlmuziqlvr said:


 



Bodhitheblackdog said:


 


You realize, Pete, you're speaking for yourself.



No, he's not. 



Yeah he is. Unless you want him to speak for you.

Reply #232 posted 05/13/18 7:05pm

purplerabbithole

I don't know about all that. I just re-read Judith's 57 page interview. She sounded pretty upset and much more forthcoming than I remembered.. In fact, the accounts of her behavior from EMT folks, hospital witnesses, etc, reveal a woman traumatized and worried by what was happening to Prince.


One point I think a few of you got wrong--She wasn't saying that Kirk (at the memorial) told her that he (Kirk) knew all along--she was saying that Kirk said that he thought that he (Prince) knew all along. (Go back and read again in context) I think she was saying that Kirk thought in retrospect that PRince knew he might die. I do think perhaps his longing to save his own life was in fact 50/50. (in a way this is reinforced by his mixing of pills. I think he knew that shit in his Bayer bottle was strong (whether he knew it was fentanyl, I don't know) so he asked for stuff he knew was milder from Kirk. He might have thought he could soften its impact by instead of taking two counterfit pills, he would take one legit percocet and one stronger pill. On the 21st, he just took the Bayer stuff (whether or not he knew how lethal it was would be hard to know.)

One other thing that struck me was that she stated that Kirk stated that getting P to see his doctor at all or even consider rehab was a real step for P. I think they were afraid if they came on too strong with the way they verbally addressed the issue, he would back out of it or disassociate himself from them (either through firing or just making new friends) . So, they had a "dinner'" with him, emailed frequently, kept tabs etc. They talked around Prince, addressed the issue with one another, but keep things vague when talking with him most of the time--except for making appointments and reminding hiim to go.. According to Judith, Prince (at one point) was telling Meron and Phaedra a different story about the plane landing and Judith had to inform them that he nearly died and it wasn't just a passed-out type scenario. This dude was secretive with those paid to turn their heads. Its probably hard to believe how compartmentalized that man was. But I truely think he kept a great deal of stuff to himself and it took either a total meltdown (like his running around naked after the percocet withdrawal in 2010) or a literal overdose to cue most people (except assistants or the people assigned the task of getting the drugs) into the extent of his problem (or that the problem had started back up again). Also, we have to remember that Kirk was in and out of P's life. He was mostly responsible for working on things outside of Paisley while he did his own things (with the bands he was involved with and his training classes). He had him multi-tasking like crazy. They had their friendly moments (P still had a greeding card from Kirk's family in his belongings) but I wouldn't say P was opening his heart to this man...which might have been Kirk's point when he stated that he wished he knew Prince better. For my piece of my mind (and I know people are going to disagree here), I think people "knew" he had a history with drugs, knew he wasn't feeling good, but I think there is good reason to believe that at some point he was cut off from the doctor's supplies of pills and he went his own way to get some. (if he had been cut off, one could have justified his illnesses etc as the symptoms of withdrawal, older age, and untreated pain issues--which is why he stopped playing guitar and dancing...after all, its reasonable for some folks to believe that had he been on pain pills, his hands wouldn't have hurt enough to stop the guitar playing) . I think he got the pills from some "friend" in Europe and paid for them with cash out of his little back bag. And some point, he might have started to worry about the strength of the pills and asked KJ to get him percocet. BTW, Kirk got P Dr. Stuhlbarg on the 7th and no drugs were prescribed I believe so he might have thought it was not necessarily drug releated.. Meron may have turned a blind eye to enemas and petty cash withdrawals because she was probably too busy working, stealing little stashes of money and thinking about herself to notice until it was too late. Kirk may or may not have provided percocet under his name at various points, but I do think he kept his enabling under a degree of control. Phaedra -- I have no idea what she did or did not do although she might be shady in terms of her WB influence and could be a little underhanded with money. But who knows. Judith probably romanticized their association but I do think she is mostly being honest but was just too chicken shit and under his spell to stay with him that week (I literally think he pushed her out the door to do damage control and keep working on this career of hers that he too was invested in.). I do know she kept calling in on him and checking in on him from LA for the next week however.. and seemed geniunely concerned. I wonder if these people knew the power they had to help Prince. and how dependent he was on them at that point.. I think he created such a environment of privacy and secrecy that they didn't know any other way to be around him.

As for the computer, had the cops let the lawyer stand there while they opened it, they would seen everything they needed. If the stuff in the computer was so damning, why didn't Kirk destroy files before they even called 9-11 to report an already dead prince. I think its possible they were just protecting his privacy (call me naive) and pretty much knew finding the dealer would be impossible because he knew too many damn people. Think about it. They asked judith who his friends and inner circle were (she responded with "that's complicated". She listed the people who saw him daily but also implied that people were always talking to Prince on tour, musicians were visiting PP, and he had an active emailing/pen-paling life.

cloveringold85 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

This is exactly the reason why I took a pause from this thread, the whole thing is just too depressing sad

.

I know. sad hug

[Edited 5/13/18 19:13pm]

[Edited 5/13/18 19:20pm]

Reply #233 posted 05/13/18 7:07pm

purplerabbithole

What is in there I dont have time to look again?

zenarose said:

Hey Clover if you have the 214 page file scroll down to the heading CONCERT HALL ROOM A2 GARBAGE CAN. Start with item #123.

This was "After" the weekend memorial that was on that Saturday or Sunday. Evidentally it was thought the cops were long gone and no worries. Anyway, give it a look. It will twist your head!!

Reply #234 posted 05/13/18 7:31pm

precioux

PennyPurple said:

Don't forget about the script that Kirk's dentist wrote.



That was Tylenol #3, no? Not Percocet
Reply #235 posted 05/13/18 7:33pm

purplerabbithole

Another thing that occured to me after reading Judith's interview, the cops asked who the could contact about P's personal life etc and she listed former assistants (including Kiran Sharma). When they talked to Kiran, she threw the current staff under the bus. BUt I do recall Prizedfight stating that Kiran had no room to talk. So perhaps, (I could be wrong), the current staff enabled less than the older staff who in turn assumed the current staff was doing the same things they were doing. Wasn't it one of the older staff members who said that P never carried anything for himself (well, we know that's not true now don't we?) MOrris said Prince usually didn't carry money to go shopping, but MOrris left in 2012 I believe. I guess what I am saying is that P was withdrawing in 2010 and had doctors getting him pills in 2012. But during this current staff, he had to get them illegally to attain them at all (other than 15 percocet and withdrawal drugs and a start at rehab). Interesting. Its like the older staff was saying that Prince didn't die on their watch so therefore since P died on the current staff's watch, they must be enabling worse than we were. Not sure if that was case. I have a feeling that folks are feeling guilty and defensive about mistakes they made.

[Edited 5/13/18 19:34pm]

[Edited 5/13/18 19:37pm]

Reply #236 posted 05/13/18 7:33pm

precioux

cloveringold85 said:

 



precioux said:


cloveringold85 said:

Bondno9 said something that poses yet another red flag:


.


Kirk then made two phone calls at 7:49 a.m. and 7:51 a.m. to Prince's bedroom and kitchen. After that no more attempts. 


.


Now, why didn't he keep calling Prince's room, or get his ass up there and knock on the damn door?  confused mad


.


The investigators let this case slip right through their hands like sand!!   disbelief


 


 


 


 



Because, and I quote Kirky was “waiting for him to wake up to give him something to take the edge off/get rid of the jitters”

.


Yea, another red flag.  Something to take the edge off?  Hmmm.....almost seems like this was routine for Kirk or something..... hmmm


.


What did he mean by that?  What was he planning to give Prince to "take the edge off"?  confused eek


 




Maybe the Valium that he took home with him because he felt Prince needed to be given those in a “supervised environment”
Reply #237 posted 05/13/18 7:35pm

purplerabbithole

Michael had stuff in his bag as well. I think they might have been trying to ease him off. I don't think they were going to just give him some counterfit pills or percocet or something.

precioux said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yea, another red flag. Something to take the edge off? Hmmm.....almost seems like this was routine for Kirk or something....... hmmm

.

What did he mean by that? What was he planning to give Prince to "take the edge off"? confused eek

Maybe the Valium that he took home with him because he felt Prince needed to be given those in a “supervised environment”

Reply #238 posted 05/13/18 7:41pm

purplerabbithole

Another thing--they had no reason to believe that P was dead. Remember his hours, folks. He went to bed extremely late and sleep in to about 10. They made a few calls and probably did wait to wake him up, but for some reason since the doctor was there, they went looking for him (making instinctively thought they should get the ball rolling.) Yes, it was a health crisis but he made it for five days without dying and he was probably anxious the whole time and he had finally agreed to rehab at some point that week. I think they thought his head was in a better place (despite his anxiety) . THe withdrawal drugs were given on the 20th because that was when the appointment was scheduled with Shulbarg, I imagine.

Reply #239 posted 05/13/18 8:06pm

precioux

purplerabbithole said:

Another thing--they had no reason to believe that P was dead. Remember his hours, folks. He went to bed extremely late and sleep in to about 10. They made a few calls and probably did wait to wake him up, but for some reason since the doctor was there, they went looking for him (making instinctively thought they should get the ball rolling.) Yes, it was a health crisis but he made it for five days without dying and he was probably anxious the whole time and he had finally agreed to rehab at some point that week. I think they thought his head was in a better place (despite his anxiety) . THe withdrawal drugs were given on the 20th because that was when the appointment was scheduled with Shulbarg, I imagine.


 


 



One of the original appointments with Dr S took place at 6:45 am. If it was up to Prince, it would’ve been at 5:45 am, but Dr S was not comfortable giving fluids at PP, and requested they go to his office.

On a normal day, it was stated that P didn’t start moving around until around 2 pm.


Also, was there or wasn’t there an appointment for a holistic Dr around 10 am on 4/21?
Reply #240 posted 05/13/18 8:29pm

purplerabbithole

Whatever time P requested in the beginning. they decided on the day before for the Shulbarg appointment . On the 21st,, he had no appointment until 10. There is no reason to believe he wouldn't have slept in a bit on that morning. Maybe until 9. the dude had to sleep and they knew his late hours. I am not saying it was wise to wait, but I can't understand their mindset if they wanted to give him some time to sleep.

precioux said:

purplerabbithole said:

Another thing--they had no reason to believe that P was dead. Remember his hours, folks. He went to bed extremely late and sleep in to about 10. They made a few calls and probably did wait to wake him up, but for some reason since the doctor was there, they went looking for him (making instinctively thought they should get the ball rolling.) Yes, it was a health crisis but he made it for five days without dying and he was probably anxious the whole time and he had finally agreed to rehab at some point that week. I think they thought his head was in a better place (despite his anxiety) . THe withdrawal drugs were given on the 20th because that was when the appointment was scheduled with Shulbarg, I imagine.

One of the original appointments with Dr S took place at 6:45 am. If it was up to Prince, it would’ve been at 5:45 am, but Dr S was not comfortable giving fluids at PP, and requested they go to his office. On a normal day, it was stated that P didn’t start moving around until around 2 pm. Also, was there or wasn’t there an appointment for a holistic Dr around 10 am on 4/21?

[Edited 5/13/18 20:30pm]

Reply #241 posted 05/13/18 9:25pm

NotACleverName

zenarose said:

 



LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:


PeteSilas said:

are you sure?  the "shots fired at paisley" sounds as if it were debunked.  we shouldn't have gotten rid of laura.


Yes I remember it for sure and laura was the one that posted it. I also remember it just got lost in all the details at the time and no one really said much about it...I would really like to see that post again, but I have no idea how to find it

Do you remember if it was a post on Twitter or Instagram?? Maybe we could backtrack through the posts although it may take a bit.[Edited 5/13/18 18:05pm]


Regarding the "shots fired at paisley", laytonian has provided a very plausible theory which debunks this entire shots fired at PP....

Reply #20 of this very thread laytonian writes:

"BS. CNN transcripts do not disappear from the internet. There's another idiotic petition online claiming that the report of shots was by Wolf Blitzer (a petition so stupid that no one else will sign it!)
So I went looking for CNN's 4/21/16 transcripts of the Wolf Blitzer coverage and guess what! There IS a mention of a "shot".

http://transcripts.cnn.co...om.02.html

I hate to disappoint the armchair detectives but it's actually about things being shot at Paisley Park.

Like videos. Like movies.

So there you go
".

"Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence......." ~ DESIDERATA ~ Max Ehrmann
Reply #242 posted 05/13/18 9:30pm

Mumio

stlmuziqlvr said:

Pete I are not alone in thinking Laura contributed to the org. as others have replied in the past. Whether you like her or agree with what she brought, she was definitely here for Prince and that’s becoming a rare commodity. PennyPurple said:

Yeah he is. Unless you want him to speak for you.



Agreed stlmuziqlvr. But Penny has also brought up laurarichardson in the past and said she missed her posting here. Maybe she was just kidding around with you.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
Reply #243 posted 05/13/18 9:33pm

dreamer5

Krystalkisses said:

Astasheiks said:

Your last sentence, Whats that about and where did you learn about that? confused

I read it in Possessed by Alex Hahn, actually I don't think it was an assistant but Susan Rogers.

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancol...ineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 22:05pm]

Reply #244 posted 05/13/18 9:36pm

peggyon

kirk Johnson is not my favorite but for God's sake, why is he responsible for a grown man?

These behaviors were all Prince. He needs to be held accountable. I am a grown up, I don't hold others accountable for my behavior

Reply #245 posted 05/13/18 10:03pm

PeteSilas

stlmuziqlvr said:

Pete I are not alone in thinking Laura contributed to the org. as others have replied in the past. Whether you like her or agree with what she brought, she was definitely here for Prince and that’s becoming a rare commodity. PennyPurple said:

Yeah he is. Unless you want him to speak for you.

laura rubbed everyone wrong at some point but for me she was an acquired taste, i grew to love seeing her around and yes, i know she could be a bore much of the time but she also was serious in her interest.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #246 posted 05/13/18 10:05pm

PeteSilas

dreamer5 said:

Krystalkisses said:

Astasheiks said: I read it in Possessed by Alex Hahn, actually I don't think it was an assistant but Susan Rogers.

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancollective.blogspot.com/2018/04/charles-rivers-show-prince-engineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 21:47pm]

i'll check it out, thanks.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #247 posted 05/13/18 10:08pm

purplerabbithole

My dad said the same thing, but then I said, "he was held accountable. He died". Maybe death is a little too much accountability for having an addiction. Addiction doesn't happen in a vacuum. That being said, Prince's compartmentalized nature is why this happened and that is what is sad. I was reading some comments on Elisa's facebook and someone who claims they knew him from 2010-2013 was debating with someone else who never met him and who had said that P died from megalomania not being held in check by his "friends". To which this person said, it was not megalomania that killed Prince, it was "multiplicity"..They also said he was lovely when they knew him. that resonated with me because it is kind how I feel. Its tragic. After all, There are a lot of enabled megalomaniacs who live long lives..our president is one of them.

peggyon said:

kirk Johnson is not my favorite but for God's sake, why is he responsible for a grown man?

These behaviors were all Prince. He needs to be held accountable. I am a grown up, I don't hold others accountable for my behavior

[Edited 5/13/18 22:11pm]

Reply #248 posted 05/13/18 10:30pm

Dimitri10

peggyon said:

kirk Johnson is not my favorite but for God's sake, why is he responsible for a grown man?


These behaviors were all Prince. He needs to be held accountable. I am a grown up, I don't hold others accountable for my behavior



Agree,
The behaviour by Prince was his downfall in the end
Still can’t believe an iconic figure didn’t have his own Doctor and Kirk had to take him to his, he should have had the best in the business looking after his health, seems he went from doc to doc for years, However had his clothes, shoes custom made, personal chef, hairdresser and all that stuff, unbelievable.
"Prince don't know how many hits he got"
Reply #249 posted 05/13/18 10:42pm

peggyon

I agree that Prince could be lovely at times. I just think there is so much criticism of Kirk...I don't think Prince would have offered much if the roles were reversed...too selfish. Why did Kirk have to baby-sit a grown man?

Though I was too often entranced by him and his magnetism, I think he was likely a narcissist. I stuggle with his treatment of women, subordinants, his self-centeredness and try to square that with his transcendant art.

Reply #250 posted 05/14/18 12:05am

PeteSilas

PeteSilas said:

dreamer5 said:

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancollective.blogspot.com/2018/04/charles-rivers-show-prince-engineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 21:47pm]

i'll check it out, thanks.

hell, susan comes real real close to saying he committed suicide but stops just short of it at the end. she also reiterates that he was fully clean in the 80's.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #251 posted 05/14/18 3:26am

purplerabbithole

I don't want to derail the thread in an attempt to analyze Prince's nature. I don't think he was a narcissist any more than most performers (pure narcissists, in my opinion, don't compensate for preceived shortcomings through working hard and living in disguise--so like most performers he probably had compensory narcissism--Remember the mythological Narcissus didn't run over to his makeup counter, throw on heels, get decked out, work nine hours on a song and bust his butt rehearsing before he got to the point that he couldn't stop staring at his own reflection--he was in love with himself as is) I think the bigger problem was that he was on the autistic spectrum, had abandonment issues, was deeply insecure, and had trust issues. As for Kirk babysitting him, he did pay him. Nobody was doing anything for Free for Prince even his girlfriends. Since Prince died, I think its become more apparent that folks around him are rather self-serving themselves (either making money off him or dropping his name for recognition) . I am not saying they are unfeeling people or didn't have sympathy or affection for the man, but remember the Weltons, Larry, and even Kirk I believe lived in homes PRince paid for. His sister acts like she is broke, but a week before he died he deposited 10,000 dollars in her account,(and I imagine this happened frequently due to the "job" he gave her.). She might have even lived in a house he owned as welll, his half brother did. Tyka had blown the car and other money he gave her because of her addiction.(he also paid for her rehab ironically>)


Definition of compensory narcissism--The basic trait of the Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Type is a pattern of overtly narcissistic behaviours (that) derive from an underlying sense of insecurity and weakness, rather than from genuine feelings of self-confidence and high self-esteem." But I don't think Prince was just that...too complicated. I think he knew he was a badass as a musician (in terms of how he felt about himself in other areas..I can't say the same.) Also pcould be quietly generous especially when people did not want anything from him.

peggyon said:

I agree that Prince could be lovely at times. I just think there is so much criticism of Kirk...I don't think Prince would have offered much if the roles were reversed...too selfish. Why did Kirk have to baby-sit a grown man?

Though I was too often entranced by him and his magnetism, I think he was likely a narcissist. I stuggle with his treatment of women, subordinants, his self-centeredness and try to square that with his transcendant art.

[Edited 5/14/18 3:59am]

[Edited 5/14/18 4:04am]

[Edited 5/14/18 4:43am]

Reply #252 posted 05/14/18 3:34am

purplerabbithole

I think she was saying it was either suicide or Prince being purposely careless. I think she is right.

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

i'll check it out, thanks.

hell, susan comes real real close to saying he committed suicide but stops just short of it at the end. she also reiterates that he was fully clean in the 80's.

Reply #253 posted 05/14/18 3:44am

MMJas

dreamer5 said:

Krystalkisses said:

Astasheiks said: I read it in Possessed by Alex Hahn, actually I don't think it was an assistant but Susan Rogers.

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancol...ineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 22:05pm]

Great interview. And yes, she is very direct. Prince was never interested in recreational drugs. He felt no need to get high. He abused his body by being a perfectionist and could never admit to being ill, because he saw it as a weakness. He had excrutiating pain from bone on bone grating, in his hips, knees and ankles. We know from JH that the same was happening with his hands and wrists. He took pain medicine to deal with all that and became addicted. To the point of no return. Susan also spoke with people who were around him in the last year of his life and from what they told her three things stand out for me:

- he was a man nobody could say no to;

- nobody could tell him what to do;

- he was done.

[Edited 5/14/18 3:45am]

Reply #254 posted 05/14/18 3:47am

purplerabbithole

One of her observations you didn't mention was really important to me-- she said she could tell that THEY LOVED HIM AS MUCH AS SUSAN AND OTHERS DID. I wanted to add that Judith added that prince’s tendencies and abilities to rationalize his choices made it hard to change his mind. Susan did say prince would listen but he would still up ultimately make his own decisions..

MMJas said:

dreamer5 said:

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancol...ineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 22:05pm]

Great interview. And yes, she is very direct. Prince was never interested in recreational drugs. He felt no need to get high. He abused his body by being a perfectionist and could never admit to being ill, because he saw it as a weakness. He had excrutiating pain from bone on bone grating, in his hips, knees and ankles. We know from JH that the same was happening with his hands and wrists. He took pain medicine to deal with all that and became addicted. To the point of no return. Susan also spoke with people who were around him in the last year of his life and from what they told her three things stand out for me:

- he was a man nobody could say no to;

- nobody could tell him what to do;

- he was done.

[Edited 5/14/18 3:45am]

[Edited 5/14/18 3:49am]

[Edited 5/14/18 3:51am]

[Edited 5/14/18 6:08am]

Reply #255 posted 05/14/18 3:50am

fortuneandserendipity

peggyon said:

I agree that Prince could be lovely at times. I just think there is so much criticism of Kirk...I don't think Prince would have offered much if the roles were reversed...too selfish. Why did Kirk have to baby-sit a grown man?

Though I was too often entranced by him and his magnetism, I think he was likely a narcissist. I stuggle with his treatment of women, subordinants, his self-centeredness and try to square that with his transcendant art.


I think Kirk actually comes out of this with some credit. He got nearer to getting prince the help he needed than anyone. And I don't believe him to be a true enabler, at worst a middleman semi-enabler. Prince was after all ordering these pills over the internet (most likely explanation, not a fact).

Reply #256 posted 05/14/18 3:53am

purplerabbithole

I agree. I think Prince got those pills by himself, but I doubt he even had to order them online. I imagine there is some person in the industry taking those pills and he literally just physically asked for a hookup over his little phone.

fortuneandserendipity said:

peggyon said:

I agree that Prince could be lovely at times. I just think there is so much criticism of Kirk...I don't think Prince would have offered much if the roles were reversed...too selfish. Why did Kirk have to baby-sit a grown man?

Though I was too often entranced by him and his magnetism, I think he was likely a narcissist. I stuggle with his treatment of women, subordinants, his self-centeredness and try to square that with his transcendant art.


I think Kirk actually comes out of this with some credit. He got nearer to getting prince the help he needed than anyone. And I don't believe him to be a true enabler, at worst a middleman semi-enabler. Prince was after all ordering these pills over the internet (most likely explanation, not a fact).

Reply #257 posted 05/14/18 4:07am

fortuneandserendipity

purplerabbithole said:

I don't want to derail the thread in an attempt to analyze Prince's nature. I don't think he was a narcissist any more than most performers (pure narcissists, in my opinion, don't compensate for preceived shortcomings through working hard and living in disguise--so like most performers he probably had compensory narcissism--Remember narcississ didn't run over to his makeup counter, throw on heels, get decked out, work nine hours on a song and bust his butt rehearsing before he he got to the point that he couldn't stop staring at his own reflection--he was in love with himself as is) I think the bigger problem was that he was on the autistic spectrum, had abandonment issues, was deeply insecure, and had trust issues. As for Kirk babysitting him, he did pay him. Nobody was doing anything for Free for Prince. Since Prince died, I think its become more apparent that folks around him are rather self-serving themselves. I am not saying they are unfeeling people but remember the Weltons, Larry, and even Kirk I believe lived in homes PRince paid for. His sister acts like she is broke, but a week before he died he deposited 10,000 dollars in her account,(and I imagine this happened frequently due to the "job" he gave her.) She has blown the cars and other money he gave her because of her addiction.(he also paid for her rehab ironically>)


I believe Prince was borderline autistic which is not the same as being on the spectrum. Unless we go with the idea it's a 1 in 10 problem, not 1:100. And the reason I say that is because, based on recent evidence, there is strong indication that the number of people who score low? on empathy quotient tests is much higher than previously thought. Conversely, to paraphrase an 'expert' with decades of experience, if you think someone is autistic because they're eccentric or socially awkward it's highly likely they're not autistic (statistically).


And to look at Prince's personality, as far as we're able, there's a lot of control and manipulation going on throughout his life. Which, if we're being honest, is a feature commonly associated with personality disorders, but one that is at odds with the 'autistic' personality. Trust me. I should know. I'm a doctor.

Reply #258 posted 05/14/18 4:18am

fortuneandserendipity

^^ Forgot to add, there is also the gaussian curve to consider: There are going to be far more people in the population who are 'borderline autistic' than those with genuine autism. As per the bell curve model.



Reply #259 posted 05/14/18 4:39am

PennyPurple

Mumio said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

Pete I are not alone in thinking Laura contributed to the org. as others have replied in the past. Whether you like her or agree with what she brought, she was definitely here for Prince and that’s becoming a rare commodity.



Agreed stlmuziqlvr. But Penny has also brought up laurarichardson in the past and said she missed her posting here. Maybe she was just kidding around with you.

My point is, nobody speaks for me, but me. So stlmuziqlvr comment that he (pete) speaks for 'us' , no he doesn't.

Laura had lots of knowledge, but the way she put forth herself, turned a lot of us off.


I don't like the whole banning business, especially for life...unless they committed a crime, or threatened murder etc.

Reply #260 posted 05/14/18 4:40am

zenarose

NotACleverName said:

zenarose said:

Do you remember if it was a post on Twitter or Instagram?? Maybe we could backtrack through the posts although it may take a bit.[Edited 5/13/18 18:05pm]

Regarding the "shots fired at paisley", laytonian has provided a very plausible theory which debunks this entire shots fired at PP.... Reply #20 of this very thread laytonian writes: "BS. CNN transcripts do not disappear from the internet. There's another idiotic petition online claiming that the report of shots was by Wolf Blitzer (a petition so stupid that no one else will sign it!) So I went looking for CNN's 4/21/16 transcripts of the Wolf Blitzer coverage and guess what! There IS a mention of a "shot". http://transcripts.cnn.co...om.02.html I hate to disappoint the armchair detectives but it's actually about things being shot at Paisley Park. Like videos. Like movies. So there you go".

Thanks NACN! I was knew about the "shots fired" deal with CNN. I was interested in the 4/20 MB social media post that was referred to. Have you seen that or have any knowledge of it??

Reply #261 posted 05/14/18 4:40am

purplerabbithole

fortuneandserendipity said:

^^ Forgot to add, there is also the gaussian curve to consider: There are going to be far more people in the population who are 'borderline autistic' than those with genuine autism. As per the bell curve model. 





I see your point. Autistic folks struggle with social cues. How can they manipulate? But maybe what people construed as manipulating was P’s weird delusional world view. Talking about personality disorders. I just read about some. It is not an exact science and they blur together. Prince joked that he had several personalities. I reckon one could say he had avoidance personality as well.
Reply #262 posted 05/14/18 4:44am

zenarose

purplerabbithole said:

What is in there I dont have time to look again?

zenarose said:

Hey Clover if you have the 214 page file scroll down to the heading CONCERT HALL ROOM A2 GARBAGE CAN. Start with item #123.

This was "After" the weekend memorial that was on that Saturday or Sunday. Evidentally it was thought the cops were long gone and no worries. Anyway, give it a look. It will twist your head!!

Page 144 start at item # 123. I tried to copy and paste but my pc was not having it!!! wink

Reply #263 posted 05/14/18 4:55am

fortuneandserendipity

zenarose said:



LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:


PeteSilas said:

are you sure? the "shots fired at paisley" sounds as if it were debunked. we shouldn't have gotten rid of laura.


Yes I remember it for sure and laura was the one that posted it. I also remember it just got lost in all the details at the time and no one really said much about it...

I would really like to see that post again, but I have no idea how to find it


Do you remember if it was a post on Twitter or Instagram??


Maybe we could backtrack through the posts although it may take a bit.[Edited 5/13/18 18:05pm]



Reply #264 posted 05/14/18 7:16am

stlmuziqlvr

Mumio said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

Pete I are not alone in thinking Laura contributed to the org. as others have replied in the past. Whether you like her or agree with what she brought, she was definitely here for Prince and that’s becoming a rare commodity. PennyPurple said:



Agreed stlmuziqlvr. But Penny has also brought up laurarichardson in the past and said she missed her posting here. Maybe she was just kidding around with you.

Thanks, mumio. Yes, I remember the comments and that's why I found it so ironic, however, I don't think any kidding was involved.

Reply #265 posted 05/14/18 7:21am

stlmuziqlvr

PennyPurple said:

Mumio said:



Agreed stlmuziqlvr. But Penny has also brought up laurarichardson in the past and said she missed her posting here. Maybe she was just kidding around with you.

My point is, nobody speaks for me, but me. So stlmuziqlvr comment that he (pete) speaks for 'us' , no he doesn't.

Laura had lots of knowledge, but the way she put forth herself, turned a lot of us off.


I don't like the whole banning business, especially for life...unless they committed a crime, or threatened murder etc.

Penny, where exactly did I "comment that he (pete) speaks for 'us' "?

Reply #266 posted 05/14/18 7:25am

stlmuziqlvr

Agreed, pete.

PeteSilas said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

Pete I are not alone in thinking Laura contributed to the org. as others have replied in the past. Whether you like her or agree with what she brought, she was definitely here for Prince and that’s becoming a rare commodity. PennyPurple said:

laura rubbed everyone wrong at some point but for me she was an acquired taste, i grew to love seeing her around and yes, i know she could be a bore much of the time but she also was serious in her interest.

Reply #267 posted 05/14/18 7:34am

bondno9

MMJas said:

dreamer5 said:

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancol...ineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 22:05pm]

Great interview. And yes, she is very direct. Prince was never interested in recreational drugs. He felt no need to get high. He abused his body by being a perfectionist and could never admit to being ill, because he saw it as a weakness. He had excrutiating pain from bone on bone grating, in his hips, knees and ankles. We know from JH that the same was happening with his hands and wrists. He took pain medicine to deal with all that and became addicted. To the point of no return. Susan also spoke with people who were around him in the last year of his life and from what they told her three things stand out for me:

- he was a man nobody could say no to;

- nobody could tell him what to do;

- he was done.

[Edited 5/14/18 3:45am]

Okay. Folk like Susan Rogers need to stop with the hearsay. Who are these "people" she spoke with??? Stop being a scaredy cat and give up names. If not, she and others with their gossip mouths need to keep it moving down the yellow brick road

Reply #268 posted 05/14/18 7:39am

purplerabbithole

bondno9 said:

 



MMJas said:


 



dreamer5 said:


 


 


Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.


 


 


This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.  


 


 


http://thegoodamericancollective.blogspot.com/2018/04/charles-rivers-show-prince-engineer.html


 


[Edited 5/13/18 22:05pm]



 


Great interview. And yes, she is very direct. Prince was never interested in recreational drugs. He felt no need to get high. He abused his body by being a perfectionist and could never admit to being ill, because he saw it as a weakness. He had excrutiating pain from bone on bone grating, in his hips, knees and ankles. We know from JH that the same was happening with his hands and wrists. He took pain medicine to deal with all that and became addicted. To the point of no return. Susan also spoke with people who were around him in the last year of his life and from what they told her three things stand out for me:


- he was a man nobody could say no to;


- nobody could tell him what to do;


- he was done.


 


 


[Edited 5/14/18 3:45am]



 


Okay. Folk like Susan Rogers need to stop with the hearsay.  Who are these "people" she spoke with??? Stop being a scaredy cat and give up names.  If not, she and others with their gossip mouths need to keep it moving down the yellow brick road



Sounds like her conclusions do not correspond with your theories. She was an outsider at the end of P’s life but I am sure his younger crowd discussed this stuff with the older crowd.
[Edited 5/14/18 7:40am]
Reply #269 posted 05/14/18 8:16am

PennyPurple

stlmuziqlvr said:

PennyPurple said:

My point is, nobody speaks for me, but me. So stlmuziqlvr comment that he (pete) speaks for 'us' , no he doesn't.

Laura had lots of knowledge, but the way she put forth herself, turned a lot of us off.


I don't like the whole banning business, especially for life...unless they committed a crime, or threatened murder etc.

Penny, where exactly did I "comment that he (pete) speaks for 'us' "?

Look at post 203

Reply #270 posted 05/14/18 9:12am

1Sasha

stlmuziqlvr said:

Mumio said:



Agreed stlmuziqlvr. But Penny has also brought up laurarichardson in the past and said she missed her posting here. Maybe she was just kidding around with you.

Thanks, mumio. Yes, I remember the comments and that's why I found it so ironic, however, I don't think any kidding was involved.

So was Laura banned? If so, for what? Thanks.

Reply #271 posted 05/14/18 9:18am

stlmuziqlvr

I did read post 203 and I did not imply that Pete was speaking on behalf of everyone on the org. What my comment does imply is that not everyone on the org is happy that Laura is gone.

I know what I wrote and what I meant, if you chose to interpret it otherwise then so be it.

PennyPurple said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

Penny, where exactly did I "comment that he (pete) speaks for 'us' "?

Look at post 203

Reply #272 posted 05/14/18 9:20am

stlmuziqlvr

I'm not sure, 1Sasha but she hasn't been around for awhile and she was an org regular.

1Sasha said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

Thanks, mumio. Yes, I remember the comments and that's why I found it so ironic, however, I don't think any kidding was involved.

So was Laura banned? If so, for what? Thanks.

Reply #273 posted 05/14/18 9:43am

1Sasha

stlmuziqlvr said:

I'm not sure, 1Sasha but she hasn't been around for awhile and she was an org regular.

1Sasha said:

So was Laura banned? If so, for what? Thanks.

That bothers me if she was. She was ALWAYS in Prince's corner.

Reply #274 posted 05/14/18 9:53am

stlmuziqlvr

Agreed, 1Sasha.

1Sasha said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

I'm not sure, 1Sasha but she hasn't been around for awhile and she was an org regular.

That bothers me if she was. She was ALWAYS in Prince's corner.

Reply #275 posted 05/14/18 10:36am

nelcp777

fortuneandserendipity said:

 



peggyon said:


I agree that Prince could be lovely at times. I just think there is so much criticism of Kirk...I don't think Prince would have offered much if the roles were reversed...too selfish. Why did Kirk have to baby-sit a grown man?


Though I was too often entranced by him and his magnetism, I think he was likely a narcissist. I stuggle with his treatment of women, subordinants, his self-centeredness and try to square that with his transcendant art. 




I think Kirk actually comes out of this with some credit. He got nearer to getting prince the help he needed than anyone. And I don't believe him to be a true enabler, at worst a middleman semi-enabler. Prince was after all ordering these pills over the internet (most likely explanation, not a fact). 


I agree with you. Perhaps Andrew describing Kirk as nervous that morning was because of the possible intervention and Kirk not knowing how Prince may act. Kirk trying to get Prince help at the last minute may have been hard on Kirk.
Reply #276 posted 05/14/18 11:17am

PennyPurple

To me that's not what you were implying. When Bodhi told Pete he was speaking for himself, you replied No, he's not. You might know what you meant, but others didn't.

stlmuziqlvr said:

I did read post 203 and I did not imply that Pete was speaking on behalf of everyone on the org. What my comment does imply is that not everyone on the org is happy that Laura is gone.

I know what I wrote and what I meant, if you chose to interpret it otherwise then so be it.

PennyPurple said:

Look at post 203

stlmuziqlvr said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

You realize, Pete, you're speaking for yourself.

No, he's not.

Reply #277 posted 05/14/18 11:23am

Bodhitheblackdog

PennyPurple said:

To me that's not what you were implying. When Bodhi told Pete he was speaking for himself, you replied No, he's not. You might know what you meant, but others didn't.

stlmuziqlvr said:

I did read post 203 and I did not imply that Pete was speaking on behalf of everyone on the org. What my comment does imply is that not everyone on the org is happy that Laura is gone.

I know what I wrote and what I meant, if you chose to interpret it otherwise then so be it.

stlmuziqlvr said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

You realize, Pete, you're speaking for yourself.

No, he's not.

I think we can all agree that LR was a polarizing figure. In Prince's 'corner'...sure...even when she was inaccurate, misinformed, hostile to those who held and articulated a different opinion, stubborn, repetitive, aggressive, frequently unpleasant, talked down to people, showed no respect for compromise or normal back-and-forth conversation, etc. IMO, that level of cult-like support, excuse and myth making is what killed him.

Reply #278 posted 05/14/18 11:58am

PeteSilas

PennyPurple said:

To me that's not what you were implying. When Bodhi told Pete he was speaking for himself, you replied No, he's not. You might know what you meant, but others didn't.

stlmuziqlvr said:

I did read post 203 and I did not imply that Pete was speaking on behalf of everyone on the org. What my comment does imply is that not everyone on the org is happy that Laura is gone.

I know what I wrote and what I meant, if you chose to interpret it otherwise then so be it.

stlmuziqlvr said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

You realize, Pete, you're speaking for yourself.

No, he's not.

either way, we can't ask her about Meron's post now, and the very real possibility that P died on the night of the 20th and that people knew long beforehand and took their sweet time figuring out what to do. a real possibility I think.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #279 posted 05/14/18 11:59am

cloveringold85

zenarose said:

Hey Clover if you have the 214 page file scroll down to the heading CONCERT HALL ROOM A2 GARBAGE CAN. Start with item #123.

This was "After" the weekend memorial that was on that Saturday or Sunday. Evidentally it was thought the cops were long gone and no worries. Anyway, give it a look. It will twist your head!!

.

Yes; I've seen the pics. sad

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #280 posted 05/14/18 12:00pm

bondno9

nelcp777 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


I think Kirk actually comes out of this with some credit. He got nearer to getting prince the help he needed than anyone. And I don't believe him to be a true enabler, at worst a middleman semi-enabler. Prince was after all ordering these pills over the internet (most likely explanation, not a fact).

I agree with you. Perhaps Andrew describing Kirk as nervous that morning was because of the possible intervention and Kirk not knowing how Prince may act. Kirk trying to get Prince help at the last minute may have been hard on Kirk.

According to Kirk Prince requested help after meeting with KJ, Larry Graham, and Meron on the 19th. Also, he sent Prince an email early a.m. hours of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged. Sooo Kirky shouldn't have been nervous cause like he told Dr. S (morning of 4/21) he was waiting to give Prince something to take the edge off.

Reply #281 posted 05/14/18 12:02pm

PeteSilas

anyway, i'm still finding it intriguing what susan rogers said, that she spoke to people who were around him in the last year (no names of course) and she thought he was "done" in his own mind, she said everything except the word suicide, i wonder what the people close to him told her that they didn't tell the police.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #282 posted 05/14/18 12:06pm

1Sasha

Are we talking clinical depression here? I just saw an article on Robin Williams. someone who should have been on top of the world, and his medical issues were only part of what was ailing him.

Reply #283 posted 05/14/18 12:07pm

cloveringold85

MMJas said:

dreamer5 said:

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancol...ineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 22:05pm]

Great interview. And yes, she is very direct. Prince was never interested in recreational drugs. He felt no need to get high. He abused his body by being a perfectionist and could never admit to being ill, because he saw it as a weakness. He had excrutiating pain from bone on bone grating, in his hips, knees and ankles. We know from JH that the same was happening with his hands and wrists. He took pain medicine to deal with all that and became addicted. To the point of no return. Susan also spoke with people who were around him in the last year of his life and from what they told her three things stand out for me:

- he was a man nobody could say no to;

- nobody could tell him what to do;

- he was done.

[Edited 5/14/18 3:45am]

.

I guess in Prince's mind, he thought that taking pills was okay and not considered "drugs". confused eek

.

If only he had gone into treatment, he would most-likely still be here. Help came too late.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #284 posted 05/14/18 12:09pm

cloveringold85

fortuneandserendipity said:

purplerabbithole said:

I don't want to derail the thread in an attempt to analyze Prince's nature. I don't think he was a narcissist any more than most performers (pure narcissists, in my opinion, don't compensate for preceived shortcomings through working hard and living in disguise--so like most performers he probably had compensory narcissism--Remember narcississ didn't run over to his makeup counter, throw on heels, get decked out, work nine hours on a song and bust his butt rehearsing before he he got to the point that he couldn't stop staring at his own reflection--he was in love with himself as is) I think the bigger problem was that he was on the autistic spectrum, had abandonment issues, was deeply insecure, and had trust issues. As for Kirk babysitting him, he did pay him. Nobody was doing anything for Free for Prince. Since Prince died, I think its become more apparent that folks around him are rather self-serving themselves. I am not saying they are unfeeling people but remember the Weltons, Larry, and even Kirk I believe lived in homes PRince paid for. His sister acts like she is broke, but a week before he died he deposited 10,000 dollars in her account,(and I imagine this happened frequently due to the "job" he gave her.) She has blown the cars and other money he gave her because of her addiction.(he also paid for her rehab ironically>)


I believe Prince was borderline autistic which is not the same as being on the spectrum. Unless we go with the idea it's a 1 in 10 problem, not 1:100. And the reason I say that is because, based on recent evidence, there is strong indication that the number of people who score low? on empathy quotient tests is much higher than previously thought. Conversely, to paraphrase an 'expert' with decades of experience, if you think someone is autistic because they're eccentric or socially awkward it's highly likely they're not autistic (statistically).


And to look at Prince's personality, as far as we're able, there's a lot of control and manipulation going on throughout his life. Which, if we're being honest, is a feature commonly associated with personality disorders, but one that is at odds with the 'autistic' personality. Trust me. I should know. I'm a doctor.

.

Borderline autistic?? eek eek

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #285 posted 05/14/18 12:09pm

PeteSilas

1Sasha said:

Are we talking clinical depression here? I just saw an article on Robin Williams. someone who should have been on top of the world, and his medical issues were only part of what was ailing him.

very possibly, lots of people say that he was depressed. It was obvious from reading Elvis' bio that he was too. I guess part of it is after all that fast living, what does life hold in store for them, what can they do that they haven't already done a million times? As Judith said, Prince called his brilliant final performance "boring". As for me, i'll save a little more sympathy for all of us schmucks who have to trudge through everyday drudgery and misery.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #286 posted 05/14/18 12:10pm

cloveringold85

fortuneandserendipity said:

peggyon said:

I agree that Prince could be lovely at times. I just think there is so much criticism of Kirk...I don't think Prince would have offered much if the roles were reversed...too selfish. Why did Kirk have to baby-sit a grown man?

Though I was too often entranced by him and his magnetism, I think he was likely a narcissist. I stuggle with his treatment of women, subordinants, his self-centeredness and try to square that with his transcendant art.


I think Kirk actually comes out of this with some credit. He got nearer to getting prince the help he needed than anyone. And I don't believe him to be a true enabler, at worst a middleman semi-enabler. Prince was after all ordering these pills over the internet (most likely explanation, not a fact).

.

Just curious; how do you consider someone who is a liar to be someone with credibility?? confused

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #287 posted 05/14/18 12:12pm

luvsexy4all

hope laurarichardson is doing what needs to be done...even if elsewhere

Reply #288 posted 05/14/18 12:13pm

cloveringold85

bondno9 said:

MMJas said:

Great interview. And yes, she is very direct. Prince was never interested in recreational drugs. He felt no need to get high. He abused his body by being a perfectionist and could never admit to being ill, because he saw it as a weakness. He had excrutiating pain from bone on bone grating, in his hips, knees and ankles. We know from JH that the same was happening with his hands and wrists. He took pain medicine to deal with all that and became addicted. To the point of no return. Susan also spoke with people who were around him in the last year of his life and from what they told her three things stand out for me:

- he was a man nobody could say no to;

- nobody could tell him what to do;

- he was done.

[Edited 5/14/18 3:45am]

Okay. Folk like Susan Rogers need to stop with the hearsay. Who are these "people" she spoke with??? Stop being a scaredy cat and give up names. If not, she and others with their gossip mouths need to keep it moving down the yellow brick road

.

I agree! I wish they would all just shut the hell up already!! rolleyes

.

They aren't helping anything; only adding to the drama.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #289 posted 05/14/18 12:17pm

cloveringold85

nelcp777 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


I think Kirk actually comes out of this with some credit. He got nearer to getting prince the help he needed than anyone. And I don't believe him to be a true enabler, at worst a middleman semi-enabler. Prince was after all ordering these pills over the internet (most likely explanation, not a fact).

I agree with you. Perhaps Andrew describing Kirk as nervous that morning was because of the possible intervention and Kirk not knowing how Prince may act. Kirk trying to get Prince help at the last minute may have been hard on Kirk.

.

Did you read the investigation documents? Kirk only rang Prince's room ONCE on the morning of April 21st. Does that sound like someone who is concerened about his friend? Why didn't he just go upstairs and knock on his door? confused

.

I don't understand how some of y'all are giving Kirk a free pass on his strange behavior, not to mention his inconsistent statements. Have you read the investigation docs and Kirk's statements that were released 3-weeks ago?? confused

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #290 posted 05/14/18 12:18pm

cloveringold85

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

To me that's not what you were implying. When Bodhi told Pete he was speaking for himself, you replied No, he's not. You might know what you meant, but others didn't.

I think we can all agree that LR was a polarizing figure. In Prince's 'corner'...sure...even when she was inaccurate, misinformed, hostile to those who held and articulated a different opinion, stubborn, repetitive, aggressive, frequently unpleasant, talked down to people, showed no respect for compromise or normal back-and-forth conversation, etc. IMO, that level of cult-like support, excuse and myth making is what killed him.

.

^^^^ I agree with you on that one. ^^^^ nod

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #291 posted 05/14/18 12:23pm

cloveringold85

PeteSilas said:

PennyPurple said:

To me that's not what you were implying. When Bodhi told Pete he was speaking for himself, you replied No, he's not. You might know what you meant, but others didn't.

either way, we can't ask her about Meron's post now, and the very real possibility that P died on the night of the 20th and that people knew long beforehand and took their sweet time figuring out what to do. a real possibility I think.

.

I get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach to think of the possibility that Prince was already gone on the 20th, and they all knew, and then had to concot a story that would be believable.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #292 posted 05/14/18 12:24pm

cloveringold85

bondno9 said:

nelcp777 said:

fortuneandserendipity said: I agree with you. Perhaps Andrew describing Kirk as nervous that morning was because of the possible intervention and Kirk not knowing how Prince may act. Kirk trying to get Prince help at the last minute may have been hard on Kirk.

According to Kirk Prince requested help after meeting with KJ, Larry Graham, and Meron on the 19th. Also, he sent Prince an email early a.m. hours of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged. Sooo Kirky shouldn't have been nervous cause like he told Dr. S (morning of 4/21) he was waiting to give Prince something to take the edge off.

.

nod

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #293 posted 05/14/18 12:25pm

1Sasha

cloveringold85 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I think we can all agree that LR was a polarizing figure. In Prince's 'corner'...sure...even when she was inaccurate, misinformed, hostile to those who held and articulated a different opinion, stubborn, repetitive, aggressive, frequently unpleasant, talked down to people, showed no respect for compromise or normal back-and-forth conversation, etc. IMO, that level of cult-like support, excuse and myth making is what killed him.

.

^^^^ I agree with you on that one. ^^^^ nod

I think we butted heads once or twice, but after that we got along, and even org-noted from time to time. I do miss her contribution to the forums. I hope she is well.

Reply #294 posted 05/14/18 12:27pm

cloveringold85

PeteSilas said:

1Sasha said:

Are we talking clinical depression here? I just saw an article on Robin Williams. someone who should have been on top of the world, and his medical issues were only part of what was ailing him.

very possibly, lots of people say that he was depressed. It was obvious from reading Elvis' bio that he was too. I guess part of it is after all that fast living, what does life hold in store for them, what can they do that they haven't already done a million times? As Judith said, Prince called his brilliant final performance "boring". As for me, i'll save a little more sympathy for all of us schmucks who have to trudge through everyday drudgery and misery.

.

I think JH took Prince's comments out of context. He actually said his performance in ATL was the best he'd ever done. He was said to be upbeat and happy when he left ATL.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #295 posted 05/14/18 12:30pm

Strawberrylova123

purplerabbithole said:

bondno9 said:

 



MMJas said:


 



dreamer5 said:


 


 


Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.


 


 


This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.  


 


 


http://thegoodamericancollective.blogspot.com/2018/04/charles-rivers-show-prince-engineer.html


 


[Edited 5/13/18 22:05pm]



 


Great interview. And yes, she is very direct. Prince was never interested in recreational drugs. He felt no need to get high. He abused his body by being a perfectionist and could never admit to being ill, because he saw it as a weakness. He had excrutiating pain from bone on bone grating, in his hips, knees and ankles. We know from JH that the same was happening with his hands and wrists. He took pain medicine to deal with all that and became addicted. To the point of no return. Susan also spoke with people who were around him in the last year of his life and from what they told her three things stand out for me:


- he was a man nobody could say no to;


- nobody could tell him what to do;


- he was done.


 


 


[Edited 5/14/18 3:45am]



 


Okay. Folk like Susan Rogers need to stop with the hearsay.  Who are these "people" she spoke with??? Stop being a scaredy cat and give up names.  If not, she and others with their gossip mouths need to keep it moving down the yellow brick road



Sounds like her conclusions do not correspond with your theories. She was an outsider at the end of P’s life but I am sure his younger crowd discussed this stuff with the older crowd.
[Edited 5/14/18 7:40am]

Such a great interview that deserves its own thread
Reply #296 posted 05/14/18 12:30pm

zenarose

cloveringold85 said:

zenarose said:

Hey Clover if you have the 214 page file scroll down to the heading CONCERT HALL ROOM A2 GARBAGE CAN. Start with item #123.

This was "After" the weekend memorial that was on that Saturday or Sunday. Evidentally it was thought the cops were long gone and no worries. Anyway, give it a look. It will twist your head!!

.

Yes; I've seen the pics. sad

Yes the photos are in a different Record #. I was referring to the list of scripts found in the trash in that area.

Reply #297 posted 05/14/18 12:50pm

disch

Oh she's living it up over on Lipstick alley (and I'm sure many a facebook group). You can go visit her on that site anytime.

-

I stopped there as a lurker recently and was surprised to see not only good ol Laura up to her usual shenanigans, but that she mentioned me by name in a thread and tried to drum up a convo about what "my deal" is (apparently I'm both "pro drug" and may even be a stealth member of the Carver County Sheriff's office!).

-

And that is literally all I will say here about her. Laura I know you're lurking here so hello! wave

1Sasha said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

^^^^ I agree with you on that one. ^^^^ nod

I think we butted heads once or twice, but after that we got along, and even org-noted from time to time. I do miss her contribution to the forums. I hope she is well.

[Edited 5/14/18 12:51pm]

Reply #298 posted 05/14/18 1:17pm

PurpleDiamonds1

zenarose said:

 



cloveringold85 said:


 



zenarose said:


Hey Clover if you have the 214 page file scroll down to the heading CONCERT HALL ROOM A2 GARBAGE CAN. Start with item #123. 


This was "After" the weekend memorial that was on that Saturday or Sunday. Evidentally it was thought the cops were long gone and no worries. Anyway, give it a look. It will twist your head!!


 



.


Yes; I've seen the pics.  sad



Yes the photos are in a different Record #. I was referring to the list of scripts found in the trash in that area.  


Hey Zena...glad to see you back. I have not downloaded the files, what scrips were found in the trash? And did they. Entire who's name was on them?
Reply #299 posted 05/14/18 1:22pm

PurpleDiamonds1

PennyPurple said:

 



bondno9 said:


So Housequake on Twitter is encouraging the ORG (and others) to RT or follow in their footsteps to block and bann Prince 'fams' still claiming that Prince was killed by WB or believes in some kind of consipracy that resulted in Prince's death.  In additon, those who claim or believe need to get a reality check and move on!  confused



Seriously? WTH.  sad


WTH ... No reality check needed for those but a check of sorts is needed for those not thinking that he was killed by someone.
Reply #300 posted 05/14/18 1:22pm

bondno9

purplerabbithole said:

bondno9 said:

Okay. Folk like Susan Rogers need to stop with the hearsay. Who are these "people" she spoke with??? Stop being a scaredy cat and give up names. If not, she and others with their gossip mouths need to keep it moving down the yellow brick road

Sounds like her conclusions do not correspond with your theories. She was an outsider at the end of P’s life but I am sure his younger crowd discussed this stuff with the older crowd. [Edited 5/14/18 7:40am]

At least I'm not a scaredy cat about my theory. Trust me. I have no fear of calling associates out. And I wouldn't mind doing it face to face. If you want to talk about somebody then be man/woman enough to do it in public. More importantly, while the person is alive. Don't hide and spead gossip behind closed doors. Chickens.

[Edited 5/14/18 13:23pm]

Reply #301 posted 05/14/18 1:25pm

nelcp777

cloveringold85 said:

 



bondno9 said:


 



nelcp777 said:


fortuneandserendipity said: I agree with you. Perhaps Andrew describing Kirk as nervous that morning was because of the possible intervention and Kirk not knowing how Prince may act. Kirk trying to get Prince help at the last minute may have been hard on Kirk.

 


According to Kirk Prince requested help after meeting with KJ, Larry Graham, and Meron on the 19th.  Also, he sent Prince an email early a.m. hours of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged. Sooo Kirky shouldn't have been nervous cause like he told Dr. S (morning of 4/21) he was waiting to give Prince something to take the edge off. 



.


nod


 


I thought Larry said the meeting was only about some shows and not Princes health. I will have to reread that. I am not giving Kirk a pass. My comment was to look at different avenues. Kirk was supposedly afraid or scared of Phaedra. He could have felt the same of Prince. I am not sure that Kirk and Meron were aware that Prince had passed already as some are saying. I guess the possibility is there.
Reply #302 posted 05/14/18 1:25pm

PurpleDiamonds1

PeteSilas said:

 



LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:


I remember right after he passed laura posted a video that Meron had posted on her social media at around 11 p.m. On the night of the 20th. At the time this was discussed we did not know that Meron was at paisley on the night of the 20th. So we now know she more than likely posted that video as she was leaving paisley. It was her, Meron, in her car crying and very upset and singing a song in her native language. I would be curious to know the subject matter of the song, and find it interesting that she would post something so emotional as she was leaving, especially because according to the investigation docs no one ever tried to contact prince that night...why would she be sobbing on camera? I don't know how to find that stuff, maybe someone out there can repost it...just wonder about all of it now...

are you sure?  the "shots fired at paisley" sounds as if it were debunked.  we shouldn't have gotten rid of laura.


I remember that video too...and we thought Prince was alone that night. It seems She knew what was going to happen to him.
Reply #303 posted 05/14/18 2:10pm

PurpleDiamonds1

bondno9 said:

 



precioux said:


bondno9 said:

1. Why didn't they obtain a search warrant for Kirk Johnson's residence??? They found scripts issued in his name but didn't search his residence??? DUMB DUMB!!!


2. Also where was the Percocet that Dr. S. prescribed in KJ's name? It obviously wasn't found at Paisley or any of Prince's possessions. So what happened to it?  


[Edited 5/12/18 15:45pm]



If I’m not mistaken, 10 of the 15 Percocet were found

 


I have a headache.com.  According to Dr. S, the prescription from 4-14-16 was Percocet 5-325 and 15 pills.  This is proven by the RX History Report.  Now this is where it gets weird.  In the bedroom/mirror/dressing room which adjoins the green room they discovered a dark colored bag.  Inside, were two prescriptions in KJ's name and prescribed by Dr. S on 4-7-16. One was labeled Vitamin D2 and contained (7) green capsules and (8) oval yellow pills believed to be Ondansetron Hydrochloride 8 mg which is used to prevent nausea and vomiting.  The SECOND bottle located in the suitcase in KJ's name was prescribed on 4-7-16 by Dr. S. The bottle was labeled Ondansetron HC.  Inside of the bottle was one yellow pill identifed as Ondansetron Hydrochloride 8 mg.  There were also eight whole white round pills along with four halves.  The white round pills were identified as acetaminophen oxycodone hydrochloride 325 mg (Percocet).  So the SECOND bottle contained the Percocet frm 4-14-16 but was mixed in with a script from 4-7-16??  If true, what happened to the original prescription bottle from 4/14??? Why were the pills mixed in and not kept in original bottle? hmmm


 


 


 


Hmmmm seems someone didn't want P to know??? Could those be the scripts found in the trash? And again wonder if KJs name is also on those.
Reply #304 posted 05/14/18 2:15pm

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame

nelcp777 said:

I thought Larry said the meeting was only about some shows and not Princes health. I will have to reread that. I am not giving Kirk a pass. My comment was to look at different avenues. Kirk was supposedly afraid or scared of Phaedra. He could have felt the same of Prince. I am not sure that Kirk and Meron were aware that Prince had passed already as some are saying. I guess the possibility is there.




Larry is a liar, liar, pants on fire.

Pete, Meron's video was on her Instagram account.

You dont need Laura to look for it.

I cant say for certain it was posted on April 20th though.




[Edited 5/14/18 14:20pm]

Reply #305 posted 05/14/18 2:21pm

luvsexy4all

now its too late...anything that was concealed has been....but the truth always gets out...it will be interesting to see how

Reply #306 posted 05/14/18 2:27pm

zenarose

OK here ya go! I could not get my pc to copy and paste so I typed it out for ya. biggrin lol lol

Not responsible for typos......

////

CONCERT HALL ROOM # A2 garbage can:

////

123.) During the search , DEA task force officers Voller and Lombardi searched the first floor concert hall identified for the warrant as Room A2. During their search the located a garbage can by a back door exit near the loading dock area. Inside of the garbage bag, they located CVS prescription documents along with 2 bottles of prescription medications in the name of Kirk Johnson and dated 4/14/16 ( the same day of the Atlnta concert/ emergency plane landing in Moline, Il). The 2 prescriptions were issued to Kirk Johnson by Sarah Elizabeth Boo. We knew that Dr. Schulenberg has already given Kirk Johnson a prescription that same day (4/14/16) for a controlled substance for Prince. Sarah Boo was another doctor who on the same day had prescribed a controlled substance to Kirk Johnson, Item # 27 which was identified as a prescription bottle for Acetaminophen-Codine #3 with RX # c499516. Th quantity showed 10 pills. Inside the bottle was 10 white round pills stamped 3/TV150 which according to drugs.com pill identifier search showed the pills to be Acetaminophen-Codine #3, the same as what was listed in the bottle

////

124.) The second prescription bottle located in Kirk Johnson's name was also issued on 4/14/16 by Sarah Elizabeth Boo and was for Clindamycin HCL ( used for bacterial infections according to drugs.com) with a quantity of 28. Upon examining the contents of the bottle I observed green and blue capsules stamped with C39. I counted 33 capsules, 5 more capsules than what was prescribed on the bottle.

////

125.) I observed a third prescription document for medication which was also in the name of Kirk Johnson with the prescriber Michael Schulenberg for 4/19/16. The prescription documentation was for Valacyclovir HCL 500 mg. ( according to drugs.com used for the treatment of herpes, cold sores, and shingles)

////

126.) While speaking with Officers Voller and Lombardi, I observed a business card for Carver County Sheriff's Officer Lt. Eric Kittelson in the garbage along with the prescription bottles in Kirk Johnson's name. I knew that Lt. Kittelson was at the scene on 4/21/16 and had been one of the first to arrive on scene. I also observed in the same garbage bag as the prescriptions and Lt. Kittelson's business card, an empty Welchs Grape Juice bottle and an empty water bottle. I recalled during the initial scene search on 4/21/16, there was an empty Welch's Grape Juice bottle and water bottle near Princ's bed. Based on discovering the prescription bottles with the business card, I collected the grape juice bottle and the water bottle in case they were removed from Prince's room and needed to be tested. ( these items were placed in the trash after 4/22/16.

[Edited 5/14/18 14:29pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 14:31pm]

Reply #307 posted 05/14/18 2:35pm

purplerabbithole

He could have been nervous because he thought P would change his mind, or he started to think something was wrong or he couldn't find P in his room when he took the stairs. Who knows. It doesn't necessarily mean its a conspiracy. Calling people out for making mistakes or insensitivity (because none of us are perfect) is fine, but I think some of you almost hope P was murdered or that he didn't have a friend in the world who gave a shit if he died.

bondno9 said:

nelcp777 said:

fortuneandserendipity said: I agree with you. Perhaps Andrew describing Kirk as nervous that morning was because of the possible intervention and Kirk not knowing how Prince may act. Kirk trying to get Prince help at the last minute may have been hard on Kirk.

According to Kirk Prince requested help after meeting with KJ, Larry Graham, and Meron on the 19th. Also, he sent Prince an email early a.m. hours of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged. Sooo Kirky shouldn't have been nervous cause like he told Dr. S (morning of 4/21) he was waiting to give Prince something to take the edge off.

Reply #308 posted 05/14/18 2:36pm

ThatWhiteDude

cloveringold85 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


I believe Prince was borderline autistic which is not the same as being on the spectrum. Unless we go with the idea it's a 1 in 10 problem, not 1:100. And the reason I say that is because, based on recent evidence, there is strong indication that the number of people who score low? on empathy quotient tests is much higher than previously thought. Conversely, to paraphrase an 'expert' with decades of experience, if you think someone is autistic because they're eccentric or socially awkward it's highly likely they're not autistic (statistically).


And to look at Prince's personality, as far as we're able, there's a lot of control and manipulation going on throughout his life. Which, if we're being honest, is a feature commonly associated with personality disorders, but one that is at odds with the 'autistic' personality. Trust me. I should know. I'm a doctor.

.

Borderline autistic?? eek eek

Never heard of that 2 eek Okay, I found something about it: https://www.dealwithautis...ne-autism/

[Edited 5/14/18 14:43pm]

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
Reply #309 posted 05/14/18 2:40pm

purplerabbithole

Speaking for myself, I have two lovely kids and a family I know loves me for who I am and not my money or fame. So, I wouldn't exchange that for a great piano performance. Anyhow, from what I read in those papers, he was pretty happy after the first show in Atlanta but "Bored" after the second show. People did say that the second show wasn't nearly as warm and spontaneous as the first. I have heard the first one and it was fun. I have not heard the last show.

PeteSilas said:

1Sasha said:

Are we talking clinical depression here? I just saw an article on Robin Williams. someone who should have been on top of the world, and his medical issues were only part of what was ailing him.

very possibly, lots of people say that he was depressed. It was obvious from reading Elvis' bio that he was too. I guess part of it is after all that fast living, what does life hold in store for them, what can they do that they haven't already done a million times? As Judith said, Prince called his brilliant final performance "boring". As for me, i'll save a little more sympathy for all of us schmucks who have to trudge through everyday drudgery and misery.

Reply #310 posted 05/14/18 2:45pm

purplerabbithole

These people knew Prince personally and he died. Maybe, she is just respecting their anonymity. The reality is that suicide is a very viable possibility--more so than a murder conspiracy.

bondno9 said:

purplerabbithole said:

bondno9 said: Sounds like her conclusions do not correspond with your theories. She was an outsider at the end of P’s life but I am sure his younger crowd discussed this stuff with the older crowd. [Edited 5/14/18 7:40am]

At least I'm not a scaredy cat about my theory. Trust me. I have no fear of calling associates out. And I wouldn't mind doing it face to face. If you want to talk about somebody then be man/woman enough to do it in public. More importantly, while the person is alive. Don't hide and spead gossip behind closed doors. Chickens.

[Edited 5/14/18 13:23pm]

Reply #311 posted 05/14/18 2:48pm

purplerabbithole

I imagine the stuff was tested. And the documents go into Kirk's dentist giving him pills for a cracked tooth. This is not some smoking gun.

zenarose said:

OK here ya go! I could not get my pc to copy and paste so I typed it out for ya. biggrin lol lol

Not responsible for typos......

////

CONCERT HALL ROOM # A2 garbage can:

////

123.) During the search , DEA task force officers Voller and Lombardi searched the first floor concert hall identified for the warrant as Room A2. During their search the located a garbage can by a back door exit near the loading dock area. Inside of the garbage bag, they located CVS prescription documents along with 2 bottles of prescription medications in the name of Kirk Johnson and dated 4/14/16 ( the same day of the Atlnta concert/ emergency plane landing in Moline, Il). The 2 prescriptions were issued to Kirk Johnson by Sarah Elizabeth Boo. We knew that Dr. Schulenberg has already given Kirk Johnson a prescription that same day (4/14/16) for a controlled substance for Prince. Sarah Boo was another doctor who on the same day had prescribed a controlled substance to Kirk Johnson, Item # 27 which was identified as a prescription bottle for Acetaminophen-Codine #3 with RX # c499516. Th quantity showed 10 pills. Inside the bottle was 10 white round pills stamped 3/TV150 which according to drugs.com pill identifier search showed the pills to be Acetaminophen-Codine #3, the same as what was listed in the bottle

////

124.) The second prescription bottle located in Kirk Johnson's name was also issued on 4/14/16 by Sarah Elizabeth Boo and was for Clindamycin HCL ( used for bacterial infections according to drugs.com) with a quantity of 28. Upon examining the contents of the bottle I observed green and blue capsules stamped with C39. I counted 33 capsules, 5 more capsules than what was prescribed on the bottle.

////

125.) I observed a third prescription document for medication which was also in the name of Kirk Johnson with the prescriber Michael Schulenberg for 4/19/16. The prescription documentation was for Valacyclovir HCL 500 mg. ( according to drugs.com used for the treatment of herpes, cold sores, and shingles)

////

126.) While speaking with Officers Voller and Lombardi, I observed a business card for Carver County Sheriff's Officer Lt. Eric Kittelson in the garbage along with the prescription bottles in Kirk Johnson's name. I knew that Lt. Kittelson was at the scene on 4/21/16 and had been one of the first to arrive on scene. I also observed in the same garbage bag as the prescriptions and Lt. Kittelson's business card, an empty Welchs Grape Juice bottle and an empty water bottle. I recalled during the initial scene search on 4/21/16, there was an empty Welch's Grape Juice bottle and water bottle near Princ's bed. Based on discovering the prescription bottles with the business card, I collected the grape juice bottle and the water bottle in case they were removed from Prince's room and needed to be tested. ( these items were placed in the trash after 4/22/16.

[Edited 5/14/18 14:29pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 14:31pm]

Reply #312 posted 05/14/18 2:49pm

fortuneandserendipity

purplerabbithole said:

He could have been nervous because he thought P would change his mind, or he started to think something was wrong or he couldn't find P in his room when he took the stairs. Who knows. It doesn't necessarily mean its a conspiracy. Calling people out for making mistakes or insensitivity (because none of us are perfect) is fine, but I think some of you almost hope P was murdered or that he didn't have a friend in the world who gave a shit if he died.

bondno9 said:

According to Kirk Prince requested help after meeting with KJ, Larry Graham, and Meron on the 19th. Also, he sent Prince an email early a.m. hours of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged. Sooo Kirky shouldn't have been nervous cause like he told Dr. S (morning of 4/21) he was waiting to give Prince something to take the edge off.


I've always thought that on that morning the last place you would think to look is the elevator. You're expecting to find Prince alive somewhere in the building (a very large complex). Why on earth would you expect to locate him there? Unless he had set off the elevator alarm. And I'm assuming he was found inside the elevator behind closed doors. Is that right though?

[Edited 5/14/18 15:40pm]

Reply #313 posted 05/14/18 2:51pm

PeteSilas

purplerabbithole said:

These people knew Prince personally and he died. Maybe, she is just respecting their anonymity. The reality is that suicide is a very viable possibility--more so than a murder conspiracy.

bondno9 said:

At least I'm not a scaredy cat about my theory. Trust me. I have no fear of calling associates out. And I wouldn't mind doing it face to face. If you want to talk about somebody then be man/woman enough to do it in public. More importantly, while the person is alive. Don't hide and spead gossip behind closed doors. Chickens.

[Edited 5/14/18 13:23pm]

i've never been convinced that he didn't kill himself, it's dissapointing as an idea, (as susan said) but it's possible. Now, we have to deal with all the people going "well, they ruled it..," which only means so much really. I've said from the beginning that people lie whenver they see fit, even doctors. the doctor who did the autopsy on marilyn monroe and the doctor who did the autopsy on Hendrix both came out years later and said they were murdered, why? for attention more than likely. like i said, doctors are just people.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #314 posted 05/14/18 2:59pm

fortuneandserendipity

ThatWhiteDude said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Borderline autistic?? eek eek

Never heard of that 2 eek Okay, I found something about it: https://www.dealwithautis...ne-autism/

[Edited 5/14/18 14:43pm]


I didn't mean 'borderline autism' as a label. I don't believe it's in the offical psychiatic manual. What I mean to say was regarding the gaussian curve, there are bound to be many more people with a couple of autistic tendencies than people who are definitely on the spectrum. Prince seemed to be more that way than average guy.

Reply #315 posted 05/14/18 3:02pm

disch

I do think that someone saying he was "bored" or even "over it" (paraphrasing what Susan Rogers said) isnt the same as saying "he committed suicide." It could mean that he was down and unmotivated, perhaps, and as such perhaps behaved more carelessly or recklessly that typical, but not necessarily as a plan to end his life.

-

I still find the planned-suicide theory unconvincing not because Prince wouldn't do that (I don't claim to be able to climb his or anyone's mind) but because the sequence of events, such as his visiting the doctor and Walgreens on April 20, doesn't sound like someone experiencing his last planned day on earth.

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

These people knew Prince personally and he died. Maybe, she is just respecting their anonymity. The reality is that suicide is a very viable possibility--more so than a murder conspiracy.

i've never been convinced that he didn't kill himself, it's dissapointing as an idea, (as susan said) but it's possible. Now, we have to deal with all the people going "well, they ruled it..," which only means so much really. I've said from the beginning that people lie whenver they see fit, even doctors. the doctor who did the autopsy on marilyn monroe and the doctor who did the autopsy on Hendrix both came out years later and said they were murdered, why? for attention more than likely. like i said, doctors are just people.

Reply #316 posted 05/14/18 3:03pm

zenarose

purplerabbithole said:

I imagine the stuff was tested. And the documents go into Kirk's dentist giving him pills for a cracked tooth. This is not some smoking gun.

zenarose said:

OK here ya go! I could not get my pc to copy and paste so I typed it out for ya. biggrin lol lol

Not responsible for typos......

////

CONCERT HALL ROOM # A2 garbage can:

////

123.) During the search , DEA task force officers Voller and Lombardi searched the first floor concert hall identified for the warrant as Room A2. During their search the located a garbage can by a back door exit near the loading dock area. Inside of the garbage bag, they located CVS prescription documents along with 2 bottles of prescription medications in the name of Kirk Johnson and dated 4/14/16 ( the same day of the Atlnta concert/ emergency plane landing in Moline, Il). The 2 prescriptions were issued to Kirk Johnson by Sarah Elizabeth Boo. We knew that Dr. Schulenberg has already given Kirk Johnson a prescription that same day (4/14/16) for a controlled substance for Prince. Sarah Boo was another doctor who on the same day had prescribed a controlled substance to Kirk Johnson, Item # 27 which was identified as a prescription bottle for Acetaminophen-Codine #3 with RX # c499516. Th quantity showed 10 pills. Inside the bottle was 10 white round pills stamped 3/TV150 which according to drugs.com pill identifier search showed the pills to be Acetaminophen-Codine #3, the same as what was listed in the bottle

////

124.) The second prescription bottle located in Kirk Johnson's name was also issued on 4/14/16 by Sarah Elizabeth Boo and was for Clindamycin HCL ( used for bacterial infections according to drugs.com) with a quantity of 28. Upon examining the contents of the bottle I observed green and blue capsules stamped with C39. I counted 33 capsules, 5 more capsules than what was prescribed on the bottle.

////

125.) I observed a third prescription document for medication which was also in the name of Kirk Johnson with the prescriber Michael Schulenberg for 4/19/16. The prescription documentation was for Valacyclovir HCL 500 mg. ( according to drugs.com used for the treatment of herpes, cold sores, and shingles)

////

126.) While speaking with Officers Voller and Lombardi, I observed a business card for Carver County Sheriff's Officer Lt. Eric Kittelson in the garbage along with the prescription bottles in Kirk Johnson's name. I knew that Lt. Kittelson was at the scene on 4/21/16 and had been one of the first to arrive on scene. I also observed in the same garbage bag as the prescriptions and Lt. Kittelson's business card, an empty Welchs Grape Juice bottle and an empty water bottle. I recalled during the initial scene search on 4/21/16, there was an empty Welch's Grape Juice bottle and water bottle near Princ's bed. Based on discovering the prescription bottles with the business card, I collected the grape juice bottle and the water bottle in case they were removed from Prince's room and needed to be tested. ( these items were placed in the trash after 4/22/16.

[Edited 5/14/18 14:29pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 14:31pm]

You are right. It isn't a smoking gun. There are oodles of red flags tho. This little tidbit just twists my head. I don't understand getting meds, not using them, then throwing them away. Makes no sense. Maybe KJ had some problems of his own.(medical)

Reply #317 posted 05/14/18 3:17pm

zenarose

disch said:

I do think that someone saying he was "bored" or even "over it" (paraphrasing what Susan Rogers said) isnt the same as saying "he committed suicide." It could mean that he was down and unmotivated, perhaps, and as such perhaps behaved more carelessly or recklessly that typical, but not necessarily as a plan to end his life.

-

I still find the planned-suicide theory unconvincing not because Prince wouldn't do that (I don't claim to be able to climb his or anyone's mind) but because the sequence of events, such as his visiting the doctor and Walgreens on April 20, doesn't sound like someone experiencing his last planned day on earth.

PeteSilas said:

i've never been convinced that he didn't kill himself, it's dissapointing as an idea, (as susan said) but it's possible. Now, we have to deal with all the people going "well, they ruled it..," which only means so much really. I've said from the beginning that people lie whenver they see fit, even doctors. the doctor who did the autopsy on marilyn monroe and the doctor who did the autopsy on Hendrix both came out years later and said they were murdered, why? for attention more than likely. like i said, doctors are just people.

Maybe Prince thought the concert was boring to the fans or maybe he himself wasn't as excited as in the past. The concerts in the past were so over the top and high energy. I can imagine it was a HUGE change for him to be sitting and just singing. Im sure he knew that he was on his A game the night of the 14th but even so it wasn't the same as what used to be. Maybe having to slow down was a blow to his ego, finally realizing that his body was tuckin' tail. That would be hard for anyone to accept but I bet it was huge to Prince. sad

Reply #318 posted 05/14/18 3:21pm

fortuneandserendipity

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

These people knew Prince personally and he died. Maybe, she is just respecting their anonymity. The reality is that suicide is a very viable possibility--more so than a murder conspiracy.

i've never been convinced that he didn't kill himself, it's dissapointing as an idea, (as susan said) but it's possible. Now, we have to deal with all the people going "well, they ruled it..," which only means so much really. I've said from the beginning that people lie whenver they see fit, even doctors. the doctor who did the autopsy on marilyn monroe and the doctor who did the autopsy on Hendrix both came out years later and said they were murdered, why? for attention more than likely. like i said, doctors are just people.

Susan Rogers is as genuine as they come. And she spoke to recent insiders about it.


Because buprenorphine - the recommended treatment for Prince - is itself paradoxically an opioid, I now believe that would have been the wrong path to take, considering he may have been on opiate drugs for decades. Like you say, doctors are just people (and I should know). And yet every case is different. CNN debate the day after Prince's death, there was this woman who claimed to have taken them for decades for pain relief and under doctor supervision. So it is possible. But I doubt high energy genius could endure for that long. This woman wasn't exactly buzzing and her speech was labored.


Going off on another tangent, the isolate from cannabis, CBD (not THC) apparently gives enormous pain relief, without getting people high or psychologically addicted. But unfortunately it's not properly on the market. Yet I believe it probably would have saved him had he got past 'rehab shame'. Assuming that it becomes standard treatment everywhere, it's still probably 10-20 years out.

Reply #319 posted 05/14/18 5:08pm

purplerabbithole

It sounds like his thoughts were eratic. Judith said he was 50/50 where suicide was concerned. Another theory --he wanted them to give him some privacy so he convinced them that the rehab was something he was interested in and then he did the deed when everyone was gone. Or maybe he wanted the anti-anxiety stuff because he was trying to be calm when he made the next decisions that either prolonged or ended his life and then when the stuff kirk gave him didn't work, he didn't want the bottles. Or maybe, he was just playing Russian Roulette (not planning on dying but not worrying about it if it happened.)

The thing to remember is that the doctors didn't know jack about Prince. If they were led to believe that he didn't know what was in those bottles and that he thought the earlier mixing of pills is what caused Molene, then it would be standard to think it wasn't suicide. Those who know him might feel differently because they know that his mind operated a bit differently than others and that he was cryptic and pretty damn secretive. Also, the elevator thing, I actually think, sounds a lot like a symbolic gesture of Prince's. I guess if he entered it from the lower floor, then he was punching the floor up. If he entered it from the upper floor, he was letting the elevator bring him down. I hope it was first case scenario if that is the case.

disch said:

I do think that someone saying he was "bored" or even "over it" (paraphrasing what Susan Rogers said) isnt the same as saying "he committed suicide." It could mean that he was down and unmotivated, perhaps, and as such perhaps behaved more carelessly or recklessly that typical, but not necessarily as a plan to end his life.

-

I still find the planned-suicide theory unconvincing not because Prince wouldn't do that (I don't claim to be able to climb his or anyone's mind) but because the sequence of events, such as his visiting the doctor and Walgreens on April 20, doesn't sound like someone experiencing his last planned day on earth.

PeteSilas said:

i've never been convinced that he didn't kill himself, it's dissapointing as an idea, (as susan said) but it's possible. Now, we have to deal with all the people going "well, they ruled it..," which only means so much really. I've said from the beginning that people lie whenver they see fit, even doctors. the doctor who did the autopsy on marilyn monroe and the doctor who did the autopsy on Hendrix both came out years later and said they were murdered, why? for attention more than likely. like i said, doctors are just people.

Reply #320 posted 05/14/18 5:56pm

PeteSilas

yup, i was likewise never convinced that the elevator as a place was no accident.

purplerabbithole said:

It sounds like his thoughts were eratic. Judith said he was 50/50 where suicide was concerned. Another theory --he wanted them to give him some privacy so he convinced them that the rehab was something he was interested in and then he did the deed when everyone was gone. Or maybe he wanted the anti-anxiety stuff because he was trying to be calm when he made the next decisions that either prolonged or ended his life and then when the stuff kirk gave him didn't work, he didn't want the bottles. Or maybe, he was just playing Russian Roulette (not planning on dying but not worrying about it if it happened.)

The thing to remember is that the doctors didn't know jack about Prince. If they were led to believe that he didn't know what was in those bottles and that he thought the earlier mixing of pills is what caused Molene, then it would be standard to think it wasn't suicide. Those who know him might feel differently because they know that his mind operated a bit differently than others and that he was cryptic and pretty damn secretive. Also, the elevator thing, I actually think, sounds a lot like a symbolic gesture of Prince's. I guess if he entered it from the lower floor, then he was punching the floor up. If he entered it from the upper floor, he was letting the elevator bring him down. I hope it was first case scenario if that is the case.

disch said:

I do think that someone saying he was "bored" or even "over it" (paraphrasing what Susan Rogers said) isnt the same as saying "he committed suicide." It could mean that he was down and unmotivated, perhaps, and as such perhaps behaved more carelessly or recklessly that typical, but not necessarily as a plan to end his life.

-

I still find the planned-suicide theory unconvincing not because Prince wouldn't do that (I don't claim to be able to climb his or anyone's mind) but because the sequence of events, such as his visiting the doctor and Walgreens on April 20, doesn't sound like someone experiencing his last planned day on earth.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #321 posted 05/14/18 6:26pm

Bodhitheblackdog

PeteSilas said:

yup, i was likewise never convinced that the elevator as a place was no accident.

purplerabbithole said:

It sounds like his thoughts were eratic. Judith said he was 50/50 where suicide was concerned. Another theory --he wanted them to give him some privacy so he convinced them that the rehab was something he was interested in and then he did the deed when everyone was gone. Or maybe he wanted the anti-anxiety stuff because he was trying to be calm when he made the next decisions that either prolonged or ended his life and then when the stuff kirk gave him didn't work, he didn't want the bottles. Or maybe, he was just playing Russian Roulette (not planning on dying but not worrying about it if it happened.)

The thing to remember is that the doctors didn't know jack about Prince. If they were led to believe that he didn't know what was in those bottles and that he thought the earlier mixing of pills is what caused Molene, then it would be standard to think it wasn't suicide. Those who know him might feel differently because they know that his mind operated a bit differently than others and that he was cryptic and pretty damn secretive. Also, the elevator thing, I actually think, sounds a lot like a symbolic gesture of Prince's. I guess if he entered it from the lower floor, then he was punching the floor up. If he entered it from the upper floor, he was letting the elevator bring him down. I hope it was first case scenario if that is the case.

Of ALL the places in the world where Prince may have been found dead...on stage, in bed, in a bathtub, at his T&C estate, in an airplane (hmmmm), in a lovers' arms, in his favorite recording studio, at a piano...fill in 100 more...IN AN ELEVATOR? REALLY?? BY ACCIDENT??? eye

Reply #322 posted 05/14/18 6:34pm

PennyPurple

Out of all people why would Prince include Larry Graham in a meeting about what to do with his drug problem? Especially if nobody knew Prince had drug problems.....I thought he and Larry were on the outs?

Reply #323 posted 05/14/18 6:37pm

disch

Wait, what meeting was Larry at about Prince's drug problem? I thought at the get-together the week Prince died, Larry et al talked about other stuff and Prince didn't get into health issues, the plane landing, etc (per Larry's police interview)?

PennyPurple said:

Out of all people why would Prince include Larry Graham in a meeting about what to do with his drug problem? Especially if nobody knew Prince had drug problems.....I thought he and Larry were on the outs?

Reply #324 posted 05/14/18 6:46pm

ThatWhiteDude

^^ I have a question for those of you who believe in suicide. We got the things he told Judith and she said there's a 50/50 chance that it was suicide, and the point that a doctor couldn't know for sure that Prince didn't or did know that the pills were toxic. How is it, that, with all these points, that the police still ruled out suicide? Think about it, Judith's comment and the fact that he died of an OD alone, could've made them say: "Okay, this was a suicide." Because, if people OD on Pills it's usually a suicide. Case closed. But they didn't, I bet that after Judiths comments, that they thought it was a suicide but something must've make them go in a different direction, and I am 100% sure that it's not only the missing suicide letter.

So what made the police make this whole case an open murder investigation? Or another question: Why wouldn't they say suicide when there's evidence pointing to it? They didn't have to make this a two years investigation if it was that simple and if it was indeed suicide I'm sure they would've said this on the press conference this year.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
Reply #325 posted 05/14/18 6:48pm

PennyPurple

disch said:

Wait, what meeting was Larry at about Prince's drug problem? I thought at the get-together the week Prince died, Larry et al talked about other stuff and Prince didn't get into health issues, the plane landing, etc (per Larry's police interview)?

PennyPurple said:

Out of all people why would Prince include Larry Graham in a meeting about what to do with his drug problem? Especially if nobody knew Prince had drug problems.....I thought he and Larry were on the outs?

It's what Bondno said.

bondno9 said:

According to Kirk Prince requested help after meeting with KJ, Larry Graham, and Meron on the 19th. Also, he sent Prince an email early a.m. hours of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged. Sooo Kirky shouldn't have been nervous cause like he told Dr. S (morning of 4/21) he was waiting to give Prince something to take the edge off.

Reply #326 posted 05/14/18 6:48pm

ThatWhiteDude

PennyPurple said:

Out of all people why would Prince include Larry Graham in a meeting about what to do with his drug problem? Especially if nobody knew Prince had drug problems.....I thought he and Larry were on the outs?

That is a good question.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
Reply #327 posted 05/14/18 6:51pm

PeteSilas

ThatWhiteDude said:

^^ I have a question for those of you who believe in suicide. We got the things he told Judith and she said there's a 50/50 chance that it was suicide, and the point that a doctor couldn't know for sure that Prince didn't or did know that the pills were toxic. How is it, that, with all these points, that the police still ruled out suicide? Think about it, Judith's comment and the fact that he died of an OD alone, could've made them say: "Okay, this was a suicide." Because, if people OD on Pills it's usually a suicide. Case closed. But they didn't, I bet that after Judiths comments, that they thought it was a suicide but something must've make them go in a different direction, and I am 100% sure that it's not only the missing suicide letter.

So what made the police make this whole case an open murder investigation? Or another question: Why wouldn't they say suicide when there's evidence pointing to it? They didn't have to make this a two years investigation if it was that simple and if it was indeed suicide I'm sure they would've said this on the press conference this year.

i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything. As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide. With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all. And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #328 posted 05/14/18 6:53pm

ThatWhiteDude

PeteSilas said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

^^ I have a question for those of you who believe in suicide. We got the things he told Judith and she said there's a 50/50 chance that it was suicide, and the point that a doctor couldn't know for sure that Prince didn't or did know that the pills were toxic. How is it, that, with all these points, that the police still ruled out suicide? Think about it, Judith's comment and the fact that he died of an OD alone, could've made them say: "Okay, this was a suicide." Because, if people OD on Pills it's usually a suicide. Case closed. But they didn't, I bet that after Judiths comments, that they thought it was a suicide but something must've make them go in a different direction, and I am 100% sure that it's not only the missing suicide letter.

So what made the police make this whole case an open murder investigation? Or another question: Why wouldn't they say suicide when there's evidence pointing to it? They didn't have to make this a two years investigation if it was that simple and if it was indeed suicide I'm sure they would've said this on the press conference this year.

i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything. As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide. With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all. And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.

That's why I said, the suicide letter isn't the only thing that made them rule out suicide, because they know not everyone writes one. And they even had Judiths comments, what he said to her, and then the OD and still said: "Nope, no suicide."

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
Reply #329 posted 05/14/18 7:17pm

petalthecat

disch said:

Oh she's living it up over on Lipstick alley (and I'm sure many a facebook group). You can go visit her on that site anytime.


-


I stopped there as a lurker recently and was surprised to see not only good ol Laura up to her usual shenanigans, but that she mentioned me by name in a thread and tried to drum up a convo about what "my deal" is (apparently I'm both "pro drug" and may even be a stealth member of the Carver County Sheriff's office!). 


-


And that is literally all I will say here about her. Laura I know you're lurking here so hello!  wave



1Sasha said:


 



cloveringold85 said:


 


.


^^^^ I agree with you on that one. ^^^^ nod


 



I think we butted heads once or twice, but after that we got along, and even org-noted from time to time.  I do miss her contribution to the forums.  I hope she is well.



 

[Edited 5/14/18 12:51pm]


I've also popped over to lipstick alleys Prince forum and find it amusing how she's changed her tune on a few things. Ex orger nursev is also a regular contributor there too.
There's always a rainbow 🌈 , at the end of every rain ☔️
Reply #330 posted 05/14/18 7:29pm

purplerabbithole

ThatWhiteDude said:

^^ I have a question for those of you who believe in suicide. We got the things he told Judith and she said there's a 50/50 chance that it was suicide, and the point that a doctor couldn't know for sure that Prince didn't or did know that the pills were toxic. How is it, that, with all these points, that the police still ruled out suicide? Think about it, Judith's comment and the fact that he died of an OD alone, could've made them say: "Okay, this was a suicide." Because, if people OD on Pills it's usually a suicide. Case closed. But they didn't, I bet that after Judiths comments, that they thought it was a suicide but something must've make them go in a different direction, and I am 100% sure that it's not only the missing suicide letter.

So what made the police make this whole case an open murder investigation? Or another question: Why wouldn't they say suicide when there's evidence pointing to it? They didn't have to make this a two years investigation if it was that simple and if it was indeed suicide I'm sure they would've said this on the press conference this year.

Only Prince knows what was going through PRince's mind. HE was a high profile guy and the circumstances around his death were weird. Also, the cops and DEA have an opiod crisis they are dealing with (one in which people do accidently die from intaking the wrong stuff). they might have just errored on the side of caution so they could use him to trace hte original source..It didn't work obviously. Tax dollars pay for those investigations..its no skin off their backs.

. I am just speculating that maybe Kirk knew Prince's suicidal leanings (from the emails etc) but kept it to himself..if he told the cops everyone would know and it would be released to the public. He had to protect the brand but also maybe Prince a little bit too. Prince might not have known it was fentanly or he might have. But without PRince's own words, it would be impossible to just rule it as a suicide or not... All we can do is wonder until we hear more about PRince's thoughts or conversations at the time. LIke Judith said, its 50/50. On that evidence, cops just can't confirm suicide in a high profile case.People would be pissed if they didn't look into his death.

Reply #331 posted 05/14/18 7:31pm

disch

Ah Ok. Where did that info about Kirk come from? I don't remember that from the police transcript but I might have missed it. Was it in there?

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

Wait, what meeting was Larry at about Prince's drug problem? I thought at the get-together the week Prince died, Larry et al talked about other stuff and Prince didn't get into health issues, the plane landing, etc (per Larry's police interview)?

It's what Bondno said.

bondno9 said:

According to Kirk Prince requested help after meeting with KJ, Larry Graham, and Meron on the 19th. Also, he sent Prince an email early a.m. hours of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged. Sooo Kirky shouldn't have been nervous cause like he told Dr. S (morning of 4/21) he was waiting to give Prince something to take the edge off.

Reply #332 posted 05/14/18 7:32pm

purplerabbithole

For once, we agree..LOL

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PeteSilas said:

yup, i was likewise never convinced that the elevator as a place was no accident.

Of ALL the places in the world where Prince may have been found dead...on stage, in bed, in a bathtub, at his T&C estate, in an airplane (hmmmm), in a lovers' arms, in his favorite recording studio, at a piano...fill in 100 more...IN AN ELEVATOR? REALLY?? BY ACCIDENT??? eye

Reply #333 posted 05/14/18 7:35pm

purplerabbithole

Find out what the lyrics of her song were. Maybe he fired her that night and she knew that she was out of a job and helpless in terms of helping him. It is not confirmation that she knew he was dead. The coroner said he had probably been dead for 6 hours when they found him, setting his time of death to around 3 am. He wasn't dead by 11.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said:

are you sure? the "shots fired at paisley" sounds as if it were debunked. we shouldn't have gotten rid of laura.

I remember that video too...and we thought Prince was alone that night. It seems She knew what was going to happen to him.

Reply #334 posted 05/14/18 7:38pm

PeteSilas

purplerabbithole said:

Find out what the lyrics of her song were. Maybe he fired her that night and she knew that she was out of a job and helpless in terms of helping him. It is not confirmation that she knew he was dead. The coroner said he had probably been dead for 6 hours when they found him, setting his time of death to around 3 am. He wasn't dead by 11.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said: I remember that video too...and we thought Prince was alone that night. It seems She knew what was going to happen to him.

ya, but we don't know if the vid story is true, i want proof.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #335 posted 05/14/18 7:39pm

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame

disch said:

Ah Ok. Where did that info about Kirk come from? I don't remember that from the police transcript but I might have missed it. Was it in there?

Yes, it was there.

Reply #336 posted 05/14/18 7:46pm

purplerabbithole

Why would he be afraid of her? He knew Prince since the 80's. And Prince hired and fired and rehired him all the time. He wasn't the brightest bulb, but those descriptions by his earlier staff members sound like the earlier camp throwing shade at the later camp becuase Prince died on their watch.

A lot of people not wanting to admit that they could have been more proactive or tougher where Prince's pill taking was concerned. Like someone saying, I quit because I didn't want to get him doctors willing to treat him with pills for chronic pain on perpetual basis...Well, I say, lady, it sounds like you were willing to do it for a little while...and now you feel guilty that you did at all.Guilty consciences redirected at others. BTW, I am not even judging the "enabling". It would be tough to tell someone to just deal with chronic pain (especially a boss who felt like shit..) And please people stop acting like pain wasn't a constant part of his life (he had a chiropactors table in one of his rooms, wrist braces, hip surgery, a possible second hip hurting, a change from guitar playing to piano playing, a change from dancing to sitting while performing, ice buckets near his piano while he played, and a history of painful knees, ankles etc. His feet look like shit too..when he didn't have shoes on and a costume designer once described how knobby and arthritic his hands were. How do you take away the one thing that connected him to others and gave him a reason to exist. The tragedy is that Prince didn't know how to live without being a performer but sadly performing was killing him. Talk about a conundrum.


Maybe what PRince needed first was a very persuasive person who could get it through his thick skull that musicial perfectionism was not the only thing as a human being he had to offer. He needed a non-musician, non-artist and a non-employee in his life.I think (honestly) that at times Manuela was trying to do that but her super fandom from the past made PRince not trust her, and then her being a bit greedy during the divorce didn't help. (I know that is controversial belief since she is supposed to be the Jezebel that ruined his previous marriage but I do find it interesting that she was one of teh few non-musicians he dated and in some of her pictures with him, he actually isn't wearing makeup--to me, that is significant as hell. The problem with him being surrounded by artist and aspiring artists is that many of them live for their art and performing as well. they see things through that lens.

nelcp777 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

nod

I thought Larry said the meeting was only about some shows and not Princes health. I will have to reread that. I am not giving Kirk a pass. My comment was to look at different avenues. Kirk was supposedly afraid or scared of Phaedra. He could have felt the same of Prince. I am not sure that Kirk and Meron were aware that Prince had passed already as some are saying. I guess the possibility is there.

[Edited 5/14/18 19:57pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 19:59pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 20:17pm]

Reply #337 posted 05/14/18 7:49pm

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

disch said:

Ah Ok. Where did that info about Kirk come from? I don't remember that from the police transcript but I might have missed it. Was it in there?

Yes, it was there.

The audio of Larry's interview is interesting. He said P was busy touring the past 5-6 years so their contact was limited.

Larry said P looked good on the Monday he saw him (WTF?). There were no discussions about the Moline incident. Thought he just had the flu like the news reports stated.

Then Larry excused himself at one point to get a cup of coffee. You can hear him talking to his wife in the kitchen in hushed tones.

Larry then comes back and states Kirk had mentioned coming back from Atlanta there was an emergency stop and P was taken to hospital. He was unresponsive. Kirk suspected, P had taken something. Larry said he thought Kirk didnt know what he P took and that was the problem.



Clearly, not the whole story. The detective didnt push Larry for more information.

Reply #338 posted 05/14/18 7:53pm

purplerabbithole

Larry defintely knew he had a history and probably knew he was struggling again with pills by the time they had that meeting, but it doesn't mean he knew all the details before that. . LG is a bit of a dick *who ignored the problem for too long and was telling his wife to do the same, but I don't think he was quit an enabler. I think he used P for career advancement and liked his religious conversion but I imagine he stayed away from the drugs or any discussion of it with PRince.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Yes, it was there.

The audio of Larry's interview is interesting. He said P was busy touring the past 5-6 years so their contact was limited.

Larry said P looked good on the Monday he saw him (WTF?). There were no discussions about the Moline incident. Thought he just had the flu like the news reports stated.

Then Larry excused himself at one point to get a cup of coffee. You can hear him talking to his wife in the kitchen in hushed tones.

Larry then comes back and states Kirk had mentioned coming back from Atlanta there was an emergency stop and P was taken to hospital. He was unresponsive. Kirk suspected, P had taken something. Larry said he thought Kirk didnt know what he P took and that was the problem.



Clearly, not the whole story. The detective didnt push Larry for more information.

[Edited 5/14/18 20:01pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 20:03pm]

Reply #339 posted 05/14/18 8:19pm

Mumio

1Sasha said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

I'm not sure, 1Sasha but she hasn't been around for awhile and she was an org regular.

That bothers me if she was. She was ALWAYS in Prince's corner.

Yes, she was banned from what I understand.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
Reply #340 posted 05/14/18 8:20pm

Strive

My first thought was suicide but after reading a bunch of stuff related to the case I don't believe that anymore.

- Judith Hill. There's a melodramatic email she sent Prince months after he passed. While he may have been as despondent as she claimed at the Atlanta show, it's possible her recollection was colored by her own issues or that he was reflecting her mindset. She ended her email with a positive affirmation which sounds like a trait she learned from Prince.

- The first overdose. The thing that jumped out at me was how Prince thought he would wake up on his own and how he was concerned that the shot they gave him would throw his body off balance. Long term drug abuse and the nutty thoughts he had about self, he could've thought that the issue was the narcan shots...not the drugs. Even if he was coming to the conclusion that he needed outside help to break the habit and deal with his chronic pain.

- The drugs. The hospital told him that the pills he took were percocets based off the pharmacist looking at them but they didn't have the ability to test them before Prince left. If Prince thought that the pills were percocets, he could have taken them with the idea of getting some sleep before the storm, felt them come on too heavy and laid down where he was at. Which happened to be the elevator he used all the time. Apparently blacking out was a normal occurrence for him. If there was times he was walking around Paisley nude because he felt overheated, laying down in the elevator for a simple nap doesn't sound that crazy.

- New information. Stay Cool wasn't actually left in Studio A. Backwards clothes were normal for him. Green Bedroom and the stage bedroom both had a phone in them so there wasn't a chance that he was trying to find help like people speculated.



Hubris killing Prince makes more sense (at the moment) than Prince killing Prince.

no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
Reply #341 posted 05/14/18 8:34pm

purplerabbithole

Judith hill being emotional after PRince's death doesn't mean he wasn't despondent. Listen to his lyrics in AOA and listen to what his sister had to say. I know Tyka is odd, but I think Prince was the type to send cryptic shit like that and then isolate himself.


Prince might have said that stuff about the narcan, but it doesnt mean he meant it. He might have been feeding them shit so that they would leave him alone, and not take away his preferred narcotic (the one in the Bayer bottle). He must have known it was stronger...else, why did he even ask for percocet if he already had a stash. I suspect that he knew that stuff in Bayer bottles was stronger and he was trying to lighten his usage by mixing with less potent drugs.

Hubris? A drug addict in denial is not untypical. He probably didn't want to believe that Bayer stuff was killing him because he probably found it to be the most effective. He was addicted to fentanyl. Whether he knew it or not. There might have been moments in which P was willing to admit that maybe it was source of the problem (when he informed Kirk of the other bottle, when he agreed to treatment) but the counterfit pills were what he was addicted to and he knew it. He had been doing anything he could think of to avoid giving them up. on the 21th, he might have said F it, I give up. I am taking this stuff anyway, I can't deal with going off it and I can't deal with rehab. It might have been an epiphany of sorts after taking a few other pills that werent' working.. Like a realization that this stuff almost killed him and he was going to have to give it up the next day and give up presumably a lot of things that were a part of his life. and then he said, let it take me and laid down in his elevator to die. He gave into the drug. Speculation of course. But not UNREASONABLE. Another thought, maybe he had always mixed the drugs to lighten the stronger stuff. Didn't he have a bottle of just lidocaine. Maybe on the 21st, he didn't mix as much. In other words, maybe he double downed on the Bayer stuff (thus the high content in his body.) The police aren't necessarily see it as anything other than a misinformed user making a mistake, but he might not have been misinformed at all.

Strive said:

My first thought was suicide but after reading a bunch of stuff related to the case I don't believe that anymore.

- Judith Hill. There's a melodramatic email she sent Prince months after he passed. While he may have been as despondent as she claimed at the Atlanta show, it's possible her recollection was colored by her own issues or that he was reflecting her mindset. She ended her email with a positive affirmation which sounds like a trait she learned from Prince.

- The first overdose. The thing that jumped out at me was how Prince thought he would wake up on his own and how he was concerned that the shot they gave him would throw his body off balance. Long term drug abuse and the nutty thoughts he had about self, he could've thought that the issue was the narcan shots...not the drugs. Even if he was coming to the conclusion that he needed outside help to break the habit and deal with his chronic pain.

- The drugs. The hospital told him that the pills he took were percocets based off the pharmacist looking at them but they didn't have the ability to test them before Prince left. If Prince thought that the pills were percocets, he could have taken them with the idea of getting some sleep before the storm, felt them come on too heavy and laid down where he was at. Which happened to be the elevator he used all the time. Apparently blacking out was a normal occurrence for him. If there was times he was walking around Paisley nude because he felt overheated, laying down in the elevator for a simple nap doesn't sound that crazy.

- New information. Stay Cool wasn't actually left in Studio A. Backwards clothes were normal for him. Green Bedroom and the stage bedroom both had a phone in them so there wasn't a chance that he was trying to find help like people speculated.



Hubris killing Prince makes more sense (at the moment) than Prince killing Prince.

[Edited 5/14/18 21:47pm]

Reply #342 posted 05/15/18 2:43am

MMJas

PeteSilas said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

^^ I have a question for those of you who believe in suicide. We got the things he told Judith and she said there's a 50/50 chance that it was suicide, and the point that a doctor couldn't know for sure that Prince didn't or did know that the pills were toxic. How is it, that, with all these points, that the police still ruled out suicide? Think about it, Judith's comment and the fact that he died of an OD alone, could've made them say: "Okay, this was a suicide." Because, if people OD on Pills it's usually a suicide. Case closed. But they didn't, I bet that after Judiths comments, that they thought it was a suicide but something must've make them go in a different direction, and I am 100% sure that it's not only the missing suicide letter.

So what made the police make this whole case an open murder investigation? Or another question: Why wouldn't they say suicide when there's evidence pointing to it? They didn't have to make this a two years investigation if it was that simple and if it was indeed suicide I'm sure they would've said this on the press conference this year.

i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything. As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide. With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all. And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.

He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...

Reply #343 posted 05/15/18 2:52am

MMJas

ThatWhiteDude said:

^^ I have a question for those of you who believe in suicide. We got the things he told Judith and she said there's a 50/50 chance that it was suicide, and the point that a doctor couldn't know for sure that Prince didn't or did know that the pills were toxic. How is it, that, with all these points, that the police still ruled out suicide? Think about it, Judith's comment and the fact that he died of an OD alone, could've made them say: "Okay, this was a suicide." Because, if people OD on Pills it's usually a suicide. Case closed. But they didn't, I bet that after Judiths comments, that they thought it was a suicide but something must've make them go in a different direction, and I am 100% sure that it's not only the missing suicide letter.

So what made the police make this whole case an open murder investigation? Or another question: Why wouldn't they say suicide when there's evidence pointing to it? They didn't have to make this a two years investigation if it was that simple and if it was indeed suicide I'm sure they would've said this on the press conference this year.

This is something that has baffled me from the beginning. How can they be so sure it wasn't? He was sending money to former associates. Telling people to come and collect some of their stuff at PP. Planned out the museum. Got in touch with old friends. He told JH that if he did not continue taking the pills he would not be able to perform, full stop. Imo, he had "strayed" from the JW faith (i think that was one of the reasons he and LG were no longer as close), even Elisa F says so in her recent interview, that Prince was kind of moving away from it.

How can the Police know for sure? He either took the fentanyl knowingly or unknowingly. If he knew the dosage was that high, it was suicide. If he did not know, it was an accident.

Reply #344 posted 05/15/18 2:53am

MMJas

purplerabbithole said:

Find out what the lyrics of her song were. Maybe he fired her that night and she knew that she was out of a job and helpless in terms of helping him. It is not confirmation that she knew he was dead. The coroner said he had probably been dead for 6 hours when they found him, setting his time of death to around 3 am. He wasn't dead by 11.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said: I remember that video too...and we thought Prince was alone that night. It seems She knew what was going to happen to him.

He sent emails around 10 pm. Unless he did not.

Reply #345 posted 05/15/18 2:55am

MMJas

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Yes, it was there.

The audio of Larry's interview is interesting. He said P was busy touring the past 5-6 years so their contact was limited.

Larry said P looked good on the Monday he saw him (WTF?). There were no discussions about the Moline incident. Thought he just had the flu like the news reports stated.

Then Larry excused himself at one point to get a cup of coffee. You can hear him talking to his wife in the kitchen in hushed tones.

Larry then comes back and states Kirk had mentioned coming back from Atlanta there was an emergency stop and P was taken to hospital. He was unresponsive. Kirk suspected, P had taken something. Larry said he thought Kirk didnt know what he P took and that was the problem.



Clearly, not the whole story. The detective didnt push Larry for more information.

The detectives didn't push anyone for more information. It seems as though they had already made up their minds about what had happened and were just going through the motions. Since they ruled out suicide, what made them so sure it was an accident?

Reply #346 posted 05/15/18 3:16am

purplerabbithole

Yep. I agree.

MMJas said:

PeteSilas said:

i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything. As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide. With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all. And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.

He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...

Reply #347 posted 05/15/18 3:58am

1Sasha

Mumio said:

1Sasha said:

That bothers me if she was. She was ALWAYS in Prince's corner.

Yes, she was banned from what I understand.

Thanks, Mumio.

Reply #348 posted 05/15/18 4:06am

1Sasha

MMJas said:

purplerabbithole said:

Find out what the lyrics of her song were. Maybe he fired her that night and she knew that she was out of a job and helpless in terms of helping him. It is not confirmation that she knew he was dead. The coroner said he had probably been dead for 6 hours when they found him, setting his time of death to around 3 am. He wasn't dead by 11.

He sent emails around 10 pm. Unless he did not.

I have not read all of the investigative report. Did it ever say what time Will Smith spoke with him? Also, I agree that finding him in the elevator was significant. I think he planned to be found there, as in "Let's Go Crazy." His mind worked that way. Plus for the last year of his life it seems he was planning the end of his days. JMO

Reply #349 posted 05/15/18 4:20am

zenarose

purplerabbithole said:

Why would he be afraid of her? He knew Prince since the 80's. And Prince hired and fired and rehired him all the time. He wasn't the brightest bulb, but those descriptions by his earlier staff members sound like the earlier camp throwing shade at the later camp becuase Prince died on their watch.

A lot of people not wanting to admit that they could have been more proactive or tougher where Prince's pill taking was concerned. Like someone saying, I quit because I didn't want to get him doctors willing to treat him with pills for chronic pain on perpetual basis...Well, I say, lady, it sounds like you were willing to do it for a little while...and now you feel guilty that you did at all.Guilty consciences redirected at others. BTW, I am not even judging the "enabling". It would be tough to tell someone to just deal with chronic pain (especially a boss who felt like shit..) And please people stop acting like pain wasn't a constant part of his life (he had a chiropactors table in one of his rooms, wrist braces, hip surgery, a possible second hip hurting, a change from guitar playing to piano playing, a change from dancing to sitting while performing, ice buckets near his piano while he played, and a history of painful knees, ankles etc. His feet look like shit too..when he didn't have shoes on and a costume designer once described how knobby and arthritic his hands were. How do you take away the one thing that connected him to others and gave him a reason to exist. The tragedy is that Prince didn't know how to live without being a performer but sadly performing was killing him. Talk about a conundrum.


Maybe what PRince needed first was a very persuasive person who could get it through his thick skull that musicial perfectionism was not the only thing as a human being he had to offer. He needed a non-musician, non-artist and a non-employee in his life.I think (honestly) that at times Manuela was trying to do that but her super fandom from the past made PRince not trust her, and then her being a bit greedy during the divorce didn't help. (I know that is controversial belief since she is supposed to be the Jezebel that ruined his previous marriage but I do find it interesting that she was one of teh few non-musicians he dated and in some of her pictures with him, he actually isn't wearing makeup--to me, that is significant as hell. The problem with him being surrounded by artist and aspiring artists is that many of them live for their art and performing as well. they see things through that lens.

nelcp777 said:

cloveringold85 said: I thought Larry said the meeting was only about some shows and not Princes health. I will have to reread that. I am not giving Kirk a pass. My comment was to look at different avenues. Kirk was supposedly afraid or scared of Phaedra. He could have felt the same of Prince. I am not sure that Kirk and Meron were aware that Prince had passed already as some are saying. I guess the possibility is there.

[Edited 5/14/18 19:57pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 19:59pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 20:17pm]

Purplerabbithole: yeahthat

Reply #350 posted 05/15/18 5:03am

fortuneandserendipity

purplerabbithole said:

It sounds like his thoughts were eratic. Judith said he was 50/50 where suicide was concerned. Another theory --he wanted them to give him some privacy so he convinced them that the rehab was something he was interested in and then he did the deed when everyone was gone. Or maybe he wanted the anti-anxiety stuff because he was trying to be calm when he made the next decisions that either prolonged or ended his life and then when the stuff kirk gave him didn't work, he didn't want the bottles. Or maybe, he was just playing Russian Roulette (not planning on dying but not worrying about it if it happened.)

The thing to remember is that the doctors didn't know jack about Prince. If they were led to believe that he didn't know what was in those bottles and that he thought the earlier mixing of pills is what caused Molene, then it would be standard to think it wasn't suicide. Those who know him might feel differently because they know that his mind operated a bit differently than others and that he was cryptic and pretty damn secretive. Also, the elevator thing, I actually think, sounds a lot like a symbolic gesture of Prince's. I guess if he entered it from the lower floor, then he was punching the floor up. If he entered it from the upper floor, he was letting the elevator bring him down. I hope it was first case scenario if that is the case.

Yes true. I believe the former to be better. That way he could have smashed through the glass ceiling Hillary Clinton style and kept on going a la Willy Wonka from the chocolate factory smile


(Sorry I've just dropped by nursev's posts on lipstickalley and i'm all weirded out)

Reply #351 posted 05/15/18 6:30am

kmama07

disch said:

I don't think dusting the elevator (or anywhere in PP, really) for fingerprints was the issue. Tons of people were in and out of that elevator and other parts of PP regularly so finding their fingerprints wouldnt have told the investigators much I don't think. 


-


I think the crime that the investigators would be interested in solving would be from whom/how did prince acquire his illegal pills and since it's likely that supplier didn't even interact with Prince on PP property, I think the supply chain would potentially be uncovered through interviews and searching records (computer, mail, phone etc). Those are the investigative tactics that I could see could maybe be done differently or more of to get at answers, rather than the "CSI"-style stuff.


-


One thing I wish we knew was who deleted his email history, and why. That would be indicative to me of someone specifically trying to conceal something.


 



bondno9 said:


 



ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:


 




They did take fingerprints from items in his house.


However, they didnt take Prince's fingerprints.


But they did complete DNA testing.


And Ps DNA was all over the Bayer and Aleve bottles.



 


A very poor investigation.  No fingerprints from elevator???? Also, a Lt. Eric Kittelson #804 in his incident report dated 4/26 he observed on 4/21 on a nightstand an opened bag of Halls cough drops and a tube of lipstick in a bedroom (soutwest corner of Paisley). He pointed it out to a Sgt Magnuson but the items were not collected for testing  eek  


 


 



 

[Edited 5/11/18 13:09pm]


Agreed on the email pulling...why didn't the investigators find this questionable and follow up?
Reply #352 posted 05/15/18 6:49am

Bodhitheblackdog

kmama07 said:

disch said:

I don't think dusting the elevator (or anywhere in PP, really) for fingerprints was the issue. Tons of people were in and out of that elevator and other parts of PP regularly so finding their fingerprints wouldnt have told the investigators much I don't think.

-

I think the crime that the investigators would be interested in solving would be from whom/how did prince acquire his illegal pills and since it's likely that supplier didn't even interact with Prince on PP property, I think the supply chain would potentially be uncovered through interviews and searching records (computer, mail, phone etc). Those are the investigative tactics that I could see could maybe be done differently or more of to get at answers, rather than the "CSI"-style stuff.

-

One thing I wish we knew was who deleted his email history, and why. That would be indicative to me of someone specifically trying to conceal something.

[Edited 5/11/18 13:09pm]

Agreed on the email pulling...why didn't the investigators find this questionable and follow up?

I still think there was a vibe of 'let's protect the hometown hero' about this whole"investigation" in that 'accident' sounds so much more innocent and less violent that 'suicide.' It's also puzzling to me that given the expertise of the ME re Fent she still saw the MASSIVE, almost without precendant levels of Fent in his system as accidental rather than the result of a purposeful act.

I think in a misguided spasm of caring they were trying to protect his reputation.

Reply #353 posted 05/15/18 7:38am

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame

1Sasha said:

MMJas said:

He sent emails around 10 pm. Unless he did not.

I have not read all of the investigative report. Did it ever say what time Will Smith spoke with him? Also, I agree that finding him in the elevator was significant. I think he planned to be found there, as in "Let's Go Crazy." His mind worked that way. Plus for the last year of his life it seems he was planning the end of his days. JMO



The phone records show Will called on the 19th and not the 20th.

Reply #354 posted 05/15/18 8:34am

1Sasha

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

1Sasha said:

I have not read all of the investigative report. Did it ever say what time Will Smith spoke with him? Also, I agree that finding him in the elevator was significant. I think he planned to be found there, as in "Let's Go Crazy." His mind worked that way. Plus for the last year of his life it seems he was planning the end of his days. JMO



The phone records show Will called on the 19th and not the 20th.

Thank you.

Reply #355 posted 05/15/18 8:37am

1Sasha

My sister lived for eight years in Eden Prairie, which is basically next door to Chanhassen. At first, the local talk was that his death was accidental. Within weeks, that had changed to suicide. So if the locals were at that point, why would the authorities actually not consider it?

[Edited 5/15/18 8:38am]

Reply #356 posted 05/15/18 8:43am

disch

Re: the fentanyl: One reason perhaps for the "accident" determination is because the ME also knew, based on the pill analysis, that each laced pill contained a massive amount of fentanyl. So it's not like he swallowed a dozen pills or whatever like an average suicide-by-pill might entail. He probably took a relatively small number of pills, what for another person (or an opioid addict with high tolerance) would be a typical dose -- if they actually were the pills they appeared to be and not laced counterfeits.

-

I still don't see any evidence that Prince knew the composition of these counterfeit pills or their potential toxicity. I still think our previous discussions that he didn't actually understand why he had the plane crisis (due to lack of testing or either him or the pills) is most in line with the facts that have come out in the investigation. (No one actually knows with certainty precisely what opioid caused the plane OD but i feel it was most likely a fentanyl-laced pill.)

Bodhitheblackdog said:

kmama07 said:

disch said: Agreed on the email pulling...why didn't the investigators find this questionable and follow up?

I still think there was a vibe of 'let's protect the hometown hero' about this whole"investigation" in that 'accident' sounds so much more innocent and less violent that 'suicide.' It's also puzzling to me that given the expertise of the ME re Fent she still saw the MASSIVE, almost without precendant levels of Fent in his system as accidental rather than the result of a purposeful act.

I think in a misguided spasm of caring they were trying to protect his reputation.

Reply #357 posted 05/15/18 8:51am

bondno9

disch said:

Ah Ok. Where did that info about Kirk come from? I don't remember that from the police transcript but I might have missed it. Was it in there?

PennyPurple said:

In a follow-up report submitted by Detective Chris Wagner (ICR: 1600012559). He stated: "Kirk told me he did not see Prince again until Tuesday evening, April 19th, 2016, around 2000-2030 hours when they had a meeting with Prince, Larry Graham, Meron Bekure and Kirk. Kirk said Prince had canceled shows on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday of that week (April 18-22nd, 2016) because of what happened in Atlanta and they were trying to urge Prince to take a break. Kirk said Prince was the one who wanted the help and they urged Prince to get physical exam by a doctor. That was why Kirk made the appointment with Dr. Schulenberg."

---

Now, in the transcipt of the taped statement ... Kirk stated Prince wanted to talk to somebody and tha'ts why they reached out to Recovery Without Walls ...

---

CW: Okay who is Andrew and how does Andrew come into this.

KJ:Andrew was from the company that we had called to um come out here and try to help him get you know, possibly you know, talk to him to see if he can get off any of these pain pills.

CW:Okay so you guys, was this during the meeting with Larry..

KJ:No this was just like just yesterday we were just trying to reach out because Prince said he wanted to talk to somebody, so just yesterday we just reached out to..I think the name is, this guy in San Francisco, How..Howard, I'm just trying to find out..

---

now why would KJ act like he didn't know Howard Kornfeld's last name when he sent a text to Dr. S around 11:30 pm on 4/20 stating to fax test restults to him??? and also sent an email to P early am of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged and to call him when he got the email???

[Edited 5/15/18 9:11am]

Reply #358 posted 05/15/18 11:55am

PeteSilas

MMJas said:

PeteSilas said:

i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything. As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide. With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all. And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.

He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...

i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility. Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe. If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #359 posted 05/15/18 11:57am

laytonian

Prince would not have committed suicide, based on his lifelong religious beliefs. He was depressed, obviously--but he was still planning.
He was told the Bayer bottle had Percocet, so he likely took a few at once.
He always woke up before.
Until he didn't.

I'm thinking whatever was in that Bayer bottle was a relatively new acquisition, or else he'd have died before.

He didn't get those drugs in Minnesota.
Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
Reply #360 posted 05/15/18 12:00pm

purplerabbithole

PeteSilas said:

 



MMJas said:


 



PeteSilas said:


 


i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything.  As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide.  With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all.  And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.  



 


He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...



i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility.  Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe.  If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.  



There are a lot of football players who struggle when they leave; plus they don’t still play in some capacity when they are 52. Plus physical pain is easier to deal with when you got trusted family around. Maybe because I am a newer fan, I don’t have those kind of high standards in terms of prince’s strength.
Reply #361 posted 05/15/18 12:03pm

purplerabbithole

laytonian said:

Prince would not have committed suicide, based on his lifelong religious beliefs. He was depressed, obviously--but he was still planning.
He was told the Bayer bottle had Percocet, so he likely took a few at once.
He always woke up before.
Until he didn't.

I'm thinking whatever was in that Bayer bottle was a relatively new acquisition, or else he'd have died before.

He didn't get those drugs in Minnesota.


They could not have been that new.there was a lot of fentanyl in his liver. He had a tolerance. I think at very least he knew it was not the standard Percocet
Reply #362 posted 05/15/18 12:09pm

PeteSilas

purplerabbithole said:

PeteSilas said:

i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility. Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe. If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.

There are a lot of football players who struggle when they leave; plus they don’t still play in some capacity when they are 52. Plus physical pain is easier to deal with when you got trusted family around. Maybe because I am a newer fan, I don’t have those kind of high standards in terms of prince’s strength.

even if you got family, doesn't mean they can help, those kinds of things you have to go through alone. we all have to struggle with some real issues alone, it's part of being human. Brett Favre quit pills cold turkey, so it's doable, little richard claimed to quit all his drugs cold turkey.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #363 posted 05/15/18 12:11pm

PeteSilas

purplerabbithole said:

laytonian said:
Prince would not have committed suicide, based on his lifelong religious beliefs. He was depressed, obviously--but he was still planning. He was told the Bayer bottle had Percocet, so he likely took a few at once. He always woke up before. Until he didn't. I'm thinking whatever was in that Bayer bottle was a relatively new acquisition, or else he'd have died before. He didn't get those drugs in Minnesota.
They could not have been that new.there was a lot of fentanyl in his liver. He had a tolerance. I think at very least he knew it was not the standard Percocet

also, i know Prince, the master manipulator, if he wanted to make it look accidental, he very easily could have. Maybe someday Susan and all these others will just say what's on there minds instead of riling us up like this.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #364 posted 05/15/18 12:12pm

disch

Where did you get the info about excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists at the end of his life? I know this is often assumed, but all that Dr S reported him complaining about was numbness in his hands (he told judith he had hand issues), and some vomiting. At his last appointment Dr S recording Prince's top complaint was "feeling antsy."

-

I'm not saying he didn't have other physical issues, but for whatever reason, he didn't discuss really them with the doctor, as far as I can tell. The issues with the doctor were mostly digestive and anxiety/agitation-related.

MMJas said:

PeteSilas said:

i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything. As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide. With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all. And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.

He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...

Reply #365 posted 05/15/18 12:25pm

laytonian

purplerabbithole said:

laytonian said:

Prince would not have committed suicide, based on his lifelong religious beliefs. He was depressed, obviously--but he was still planning.
He was told the Bayer bottle had Percocet, so he likely took a few at once.
He always woke up before.
Until he didn't.

I'm thinking whatever was in that Bayer bottle was a relatively new acquisition, or else he'd have died before.

He didn't get those drugs in Minnesota.


They could not have been that new.there was a lot of fentanyl in his liver. He had a tolerance. I think at very least he knew it was not the standard Percocet


You are confusing what I said and trying to justify your position.

Bull. He had no fentanyl in his urine. Only Percocet/hydro.
You need to learn how the body metabolizes. Fentanyl stays in the body for about four days.
The only traces were in his gastric system and liver. If he was taking it all the time, it would have been in his urine. It would only take a few pills, if they were pure fentanyl, to kill a human.
I REPEAT: he took the prescribed Percocet sometime during the week and just likely reached for the handy Bayer bottle. He'd been told in Moline it looked like Percocet.
Suicide would be a mortal sin to him.
[Edited 5/15/18 12:27pm]
Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
Reply #366 posted 05/15/18 12:34pm

Strawberrylova123

PeteSilas said:

 



MMJas said:


 



PeteSilas said:


 


i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything.  As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide.  With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all.  And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.  



 


He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...



i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility.  Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe.  If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.  


Prince...did..not...have...a..terminal...illness, Dr. S said their wasn't anything significant in his blood test besides slight anemia. A disease would've shown up in his blood and urine test.
Reply #367 posted 05/15/18 12:35pm

cloveringold85

bondno9 said:

disch said:

Ah Ok. Where did that info about Kirk come from? I don't remember that from the police transcript but I might have missed it. Was it in there?

In a follow-up report submitted by Detective Chris Wagner (ICR: 1600012559). He stated: "Kirk told me he did not see Prince again until Tuesday evening, April 19th, 2016, around 2000-2030 hours when they had a meeting with Prince, Larry Graham, Meron Bekure and Kirk. Kirk said Prince had canceled shows on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday of that week (April 18-22nd, 2016) because of what happened in Atlanta and they were trying to urge Prince to take a break. Kirk said Prince was the one who wanted the help and they urged Prince to get physical exam by a doctor. That was why Kirk made the appointment with Dr. Schulenberg."

---

Now, in the transcipt of the taped statement ... Kirk stated Prince wanted to talk to somebody and tha'ts why they reached out to Recovery Without Walls ...

---

CW: Okay who is Andrew and how does Andrew come into this.

KJ:Andrew was from the company that we had called to um come out here and try to help him get you know, possibly you know, talk to him to see if he can get off any of these pain pills.

CW:Okay so you guys, was this during the meeting with Larry..

KJ:No this was just like just yesterday we were just trying to reach out because Prince said he wanted to talk to somebody, so just yesterday we just reached out to..I think the name is, this guy in San Francisco, How..Howard, I'm just trying to find out..

---

now why would KJ act like he didn't know Howard Kornfeld's last name when he sent a text to Dr. S around 11:30 pm on 4/20 stating to fax test restults to him??? and also sent an email to P early am of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged and to call him when he got the email???

[Edited 5/15/18 9:11am]

.

..........Because, when someone speaks the truth, they don't have to remember and thus having inconsistent statements. Kirk, Meron, Phaedra, Larry, Tyka -- none of them are being truthful.

.

Thieves, crooks, liars, wolves in sheep clothing. mad

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #368 posted 05/15/18 12:36pm

cloveringold85

laytonian said:

Prince would not have committed suicide, based on his lifelong religious beliefs. He was depressed, obviously--but he was still planning. He was told the Bayer bottle had Percocet, so he likely took a few at once. He always woke up before. Until he didn't. I'm thinking whatever was in that Bayer bottle was a relatively new acquisition, or else he'd have died before. He didn't get those drugs in Minnesota.

.

yeahthat

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #369 posted 05/15/18 12:38pm

cloveringold85

disch said:

Where did you get the info about excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists at the end of his life? I know this is often assumed, but all that Dr S reported him complaining about was numbness in his hands (he told judith he had hand issues), and some vomiting. At his last appointment Dr S recording Prince's top complaint was "feeling antsy."

-

I'm not saying he didn't have other physical issues, but for whatever reason, he didn't discuss really them with the doctor, as far as I can tell. The issues with the doctor were mostly digestive and anxiety/agitation-related.

MMJas said:

He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...

.

I would feel "antsy" too if I was drinking those 5-Hour Energy Drinks!! eek

.

To think that he was drinking that stuff, along with taking Prescription Rx's! eek no no no!

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #370 posted 05/15/18 12:39pm

PeteSilas

Strawberrylova123 said:

PeteSilas said:

i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility. Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe. If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.

Prince...did..not...have...a..terminal...illness, Dr. S said their wasn't anything significant in his blood test besides slight anemia. A disease would've shown up in his blood and urine test.

all depends on what they were testing for, without the autopsy, i'm not 100 percent convinced.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #371 posted 05/15/18 12:40pm

cloveringold85

Strawberrylova123 said:

PeteSilas said:

i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility. Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe. If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.

Prince...did..not...have...a..terminal...illness, Dr. S said their wasn't anything significant in his blood test besides slight anemia. A disease would've shown up in his blood and urine test.

.

Exactly!! nod

.

No diseases, only mild anemia. I don't understand why this is still even a discussion or debate? confused

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #372 posted 05/15/18 12:43pm

purplerabbithole

disch said:

Where did you get the info about excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists at the end of his life? I know this is often assumed, but all that Dr S reported him complaining about was numbness in his hands (he told judith he had hand issues), and some vomiting. At his last appointment Dr S recording Prince's top complaint was "feeling antsy."


-


I'm not saying he didn't have other physical issues, but for whatever reason, he didn't discuss really them with the doctor, as far as I can tell. The issues with the doctor were mostly digestive and anxiety/agitation-related.



MMJas said:


 



PeteSilas said:


 


i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything.  As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide.  With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all.  And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.  



 


He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...



 


The only pain he might have worried about was his hands because he was using them.
Kirk got the Percocet for his hips. The stuff I mentioned was stuff he dealt with in the past. But without surgery or significant decline in work habits , those will flare up again.
Reply #373 posted 05/15/18 12:59pm

Strawberrylova123

cloveringold85 said:

 



Strawberrylova123 said:


PeteSilas said:

 


i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility.  Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe.  If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.  



Prince...did..not...have...a..terminal...illness, Dr. S said their wasn't anything significant in his blood test besides slight anemia. A disease would've shown up in his blood and urine test.

.


Exactly!!  nod


.


No diseases, only mild anemia.  I don't understand why this is still even a discussion or debate?  confused


It's there black and white! Prince suffered dealing with excruciating pain, I'm in medical school right now people need to understand that everything is found in the blood
Reply #374 posted 05/15/18 1:59pm

PeteSilas

jesus, i'm listening to some of the phone calls, what a bunch of fucking wackos.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #375 posted 05/15/18 2:29pm

PurpleDiamonds1

laytonian said:

purplerabbithole said:



They could not have been that new.there was a lot of fentanyl in his liver. He had a tolerance. I think at very least he knew it was not the standard Percocet


You are confusing what I said and trying to justify your position.

Bull. He had no fentanyl in his urine. Only Percocet/hydro.
You need to learn how the body metabolizes. Fentanyl stays in the body for about four days.
The only traces were in his gastric system and liver. If he was taking it all the time, it would have been in his urine. It would only take a few pills, if they were pure fentanyl, to kill a human.
I REPEAT: he took the prescribed Percocet sometime during the week and just likely reached for the handy Bayer bottle. He'd been told in Moline it looked like Percocet.
Suicide would be a mortal sin to him.
[Edited 5/15/18 12:27pm]

AGREE with you^^^^^
He had no idea he was being given pills laced with the fentanyl and IMO someone did.
Reply #376 posted 05/15/18 2:47pm

PurpleDiamonds1

zenarose said:

 



purplerabbithole said:


I imagine the stuff was tested.  And the documents go into Kirk's dentist giving him pills for a cracked tooth. This is not some smoking gun.


 



zenarose said:


OK here ya go! I could not get my pc to copy and paste so I typed it out for ya.  biggrin lol lol


Not responsible for typos.....


 


 


////


 


 


CONCERT HALL ROOM # A2 garbage can:


 


////


 


 


123.)  During the search , DEA task force officers Voller and Lombardi searched the first floor concert hall identified for the warrant as Room A2. During their search the located a garbage can by a back door exit near the loading dock area. Inside of the garbage bag, they located CVS prescription documents along with 2 bottles of prescription medications in the name of Kirk Johnson and dated 4/14/16 ( the same day of the Atlnta concert/ emergency plane landing in Moline, Il). The 2 prescriptions were issued to Kirk Johnson by Sarah Elizabeth Boo. We knew that Dr. Schulenberg has already given Kirk Johnson a prescription that same day (4/14/16) for a controlled substance for Prince. Sarah Boo was another doctor who on the same day had prescribed a controlled substance to Kirk Johnson, Item # 27 which was identified as a prescription bottle for Acetaminophen-Codine #3 with RX # c499516. Th quantity showed 10 pills. Inside the bottle was 10 white round pills stamped 3/TV150 which according to drugs.com pill identifier search showed the pills to be Acetaminophen-Codine #3, the same as what was listed in the bottle


 


////


 


124.)  The second prescription bottle located in Kirk Johnson's name was also issued on 4/14/16 by Sarah Elizabeth Boo and was for Clindamycin HCL ( used for bacterial infections according to drugs.com) with a quantity of 28. Upon examining the contents of the bottle I observed green and blue capsules stamped with C39. I counted 33 capsules, 5 more capsules than what was prescribed on the bottle.


 


 


////


 


125.) I observed a third prescription document for medication which was also in the name of Kirk Johnson with the prescriber Michael Schulenberg for 4/19/16. The prescription documentation was for Valacyclovir HCL 500 mg. ( according to drugs.com used for the treatment of herpes, cold sores, and shingles)


 


////


 


 


126.)  While speaking with Officers Voller and Lombardi, I observed a business card for Carver County Sheriff's Officer Lt. Eric Kittelson in the garbage along with the prescription bottles in Kirk Johnson's name. I knew that Lt. Kittelson was at the scene on 4/21/16 and had been one of the first to arrive on scene. I also observed in the same garbage bag as the prescriptions and Lt. Kittelson's business card, an empty Welchs Grape Juice bottle and an empty water bottle. I recalled during the initial scene search on 4/21/16, there was an empty Welch's Grape Juice bottle and water bottle near Princ's bed. Based on discovering the prescription bottles with the business card, I collected the grape juice bottle and the water bottle in case they were removed from Prince's room and needed to be tested. ( these items were placed in the trash after 4/22/16.


[Edited 5/14/18 14:29pm]


[Edited 5/14/18 14:31pm]



 



You are right. It isn't a smoking gun. There are oodles of red flags tho. This little tidbit just twists my head. I don't understand getting meds, not using them, then throwing them away. Makes no sense. Maybe KJ had some problems of his own.(medical)


Does seem KJ has his own problem or was gathering meds to make it appear that P had a problem. The scripts in the garbage can, the dates and what appears to be what P was going to take was not what was given, it appears Kirk did the switching on at least the moline incident and the prior date P had cancelled the show on the 7th due to feeling sick.
Reply #377 posted 05/15/18 2:51pm

kmama07

PeteSilas said:

 



Strawberrylova123 said:


PeteSilas said:

 


i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility.  Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe.  If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.  



Prince...did..not...have...a..terminal...illness, Dr. S said their wasn't anything significant in his blood test besides slight anemia. A disease would've shown up in his blood and urine test.

all depends on what they were testing for, without the autopsy, i'm not 100 percent convinced.


There was a time I thought it was a possibility, but after reading the interviews, don't you think it (a chronic/terminal illness) would have been brought up to the staff who worked on him in Moline? JMO
[Edited 5/15/18 14:53pm]
Reply #378 posted 05/15/18 3:00pm

PeteSilas

kmama07 said:

PeteSilas said:

all depends on what they were testing for, without the autopsy, i'm not 100 percent convinced.

There was a time I thought it was a possibility, but after reading the interviews, don't you think it (a chronic/terminal illness) would have been brought up to the staff who worked on him in Moline? JMO [Edited 5/15/18 14:53pm]

ya, that's the point that i see that makes that unlikely, i'm not 100 percent there yet though. I'm not 100 percent that he committed suicide or that he accidentally did it either. Only 100 percent that he's dead.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #379 posted 05/15/18 3:08pm

cloveringold85

PeteSilas said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

PeteSilas said: Prince...did..not...have...a..terminal...illness, Dr. S said their wasn't anything significant in his blood test besides slight anemia. A disease would've shown up in his blood and urine test.

all depends on what they were testing for, without the autopsy, i'm not 100 percent convinced.

.

I am sure Dr. Schulenberg did a thorough scan on Prince's bloodwork on the 20th. Usually doctor's will do that, especially when a Patient is taking Rx (mine does)--they look for anything unusual or out of balance. Prince had mild anemia and the urine test on the 20th tested postive for Opioids.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #380 posted 05/15/18 3:16pm

disch

My thought is, it would have also come up in the investigation files. A terminal illness would have been found in the autopsy, and it seems that would have set off some new investigative paths (since that might have been central to why and how he got opioids). But there's nothing in the investigation files that hint at anything like that.

kmama07 said:

PeteSilas said:

all depends on what they were testing for, without the autopsy, i'm not 100 percent convinced.

There was a time I thought it was a possibility, but after reading the interviews, don't you think it (a chronic/terminal illness) would have been brought up to the staff who worked on him in Moline? JMO [Edited 5/15/18 14:53pm]

Reply #381 posted 05/15/18 3:30pm

benni

Strawberrylova123 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Exactly!! nod

.

No diseases, only mild anemia. I don't understand why this is still even a discussion or debate? confused

It's there black and white! Prince suffered dealing with excruciating pain, I'm in medical school right now people need to understand that everything is found in the blood



It is if they order the specific tests.

A CBC could have been ordered which would have shown that he had slight anemia. Now it may suggest cancer if too few or too many of a type of blood cell are found, or abnormal cells, but it may not show up in a CBC. And dependent upon the cancer itself, it may not show in a CBC. A CBC would indicate whether there was any infection going on.

CBC is the standard "go to" blood tests that doctor's normally chose because it tests for a multiple of factors.

However, my condition (clotting) would not show up with a CBC. Just to get my condition to show up the doctor would have to order a very specific type of test; a d-Dimer test. Nothing has stated what kind of blood work was done on Prince. We can assume they probably looked at liver function, did a drug test to see what would show up in Prince, maybe a urinalysis. I doubt that they ordered specific tests to look for other diseases or conditions, as that is not the norm when looking at possible addictions and the effects those addictions may have had upon the body.

Reply #382 posted 05/15/18 3:30pm

PeteSilas

disch said:

My thought is, it would have also come up in the investigation files. A terminal illness would have been found in the autopsy, and it seems that would have set off some new investigative paths (since that might have been central to why and how he got opioids). But there's nothing in the investigation files that hint at anything like that.

kmama07 said:

PeteSilas said: There was a time I thought it was a possibility, but after reading the interviews, don't you think it (a chronic/terminal illness) would have been brought up to the staff who worked on him in Moline? JMO [Edited 5/15/18 14:53pm]

i would think so too but what if for some reason they didn't want to put it in there? The autopsy would be the best evidence and we won't get that until were all either dead or very old.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #383 posted 05/15/18 3:34pm

disch

yeah i don't think there's a hidden bombshell in the full autopsy. Whatever's in there didn't merit mention as even a contributing cause on the autopsy summary, and like I said i think it would have triggered something in the investigation.

-

Even tho some investigation files were dedacted, the office listed every file that was redacted and nothing on that list strikes me as hinting at a terminal illness issue. And no one in the interviews mentioned anything like that, and as far as we can tell, the cops didn't ask anyone anything about that even after they got the full autopsy.

PeteSilas said:

disch said:

My thought is, it would have also come up in the investigation files. A terminal illness would have been found in the autopsy, and it seems that would have set off some new investigative paths (since that might have been central to why and how he got opioids). But there's nothing in the investigation files that hint at anything like that.

i would think so too but what if for some reason they didn't want to put it in there? The autopsy would be the best evidence and we won't get that until were all either dead or very old.

Reply #384 posted 05/15/18 3:35pm

kmama07

disch said:

My thought is, it would have also come up in the investigation files. A terminal illness would have been found in the autopsy, and it seems that would have set off some new investigative paths (since that might have been central to why and how he got opioids). But there's nothing in the investigation files that hint at anything like that.



kmama07 said:


PeteSilas said:

 


all depends on what they were testing for, without the autopsy, i'm not 100 percent convinced.



There was a time I thought it was a possibility, but after reading the interviews, don't you think it (a chronic/terminal illness) would have been brought up to the staff who worked on him in Moline? JMO [Edited 5/15/18 14:53pm]

 


Yup.
Reply #385 posted 05/15/18 3:39pm

PeteSilas

disch said:

yeah i don't think there's a hidden bombshell in the full autopsy. Whatever's in there didn't merit mention as even a contributing cause on the autopsy summary, and like I said i think it would have triggered something in the investigation.

-

Even tho some investigation files were dedacted, the office listed every file that was redacted and nothing on that list strikes me as hinting at a terminal illness issue. And no one in the interviews mentioned anything like that, and as far as we can tell, the cops didn't ask anyone anything about that even after they got the full autopsy.

PeteSilas said:

i would think so too but what if for some reason they didn't want to put it in there? The autopsy would be the best evidence and we won't get that until were all either dead or very old.

if that's the case they or the family should just tell everything there is to tell. I know the state law etc.., but that doesn't preclude the family from going on the record i don't think. Any way you cut it, prince will be just as dead and that's just soooo dissapointing, was dissapointing on the 21 or april/16 and it's just as dissapointing now.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #386 posted 05/15/18 3:41pm

benni

disch said:

yeah i don't think there's a hidden bombshell in the full autopsy. Whatever's in there didn't merit mention as even a contributing cause on the autopsy summary, and like I said i think it would have triggered something in the investigation.

-

Even tho some investigation files were dedacted, the office listed every file that was redacted and nothing on that list strikes me as hinting at a terminal illness issue. And no one in the interviews mentioned anything like that, and as far as we can tell, the cops didn't ask anyone anything about that even after they got the full autopsy.

PeteSilas said:

i would think so too but what if for some reason they didn't want to put it in there? The autopsy would be the best evidence and we won't get that until were all either dead or very old.


I agree. Though, I was told by someone close to him originally, that he had prepared them and they were expecting it, but thought it would be "some time" yet. I think it's possible that the effects of the drugs on Prince's body might have led him to believe that it was soon, or knowing Prince it was some play on the number 7. For instance, MJ had passed 7 years earlier from drugs. Maybe Prince believed it was some kind of curse for stars born in 1958, that they'd die within 7 years of each other. eek Okay, that's not a real thing folks! But the person that mentioend it to me, I do know was friends with Prince, and they were pretty convinced that there was something going on and that he had prepared them.

Reply #387 posted 05/15/18 3:51pm

PeteSilas

well, who was it benni? we're all tired of this "people close to him" shit.

benni said:

disch said:

yeah i don't think there's a hidden bombshell in the full autopsy. Whatever's in there didn't merit mention as even a contributing cause on the autopsy summary, and like I said i think it would have triggered something in the investigation.

-

Even tho some investigation files were dedacted, the office listed every file that was redacted and nothing on that list strikes me as hinting at a terminal illness issue. And no one in the interviews mentioned anything like that, and as far as we can tell, the cops didn't ask anyone anything about that even after they got the full autopsy.


I agree. Though, I was told by someone close to him originally, that he had prepared them and they were expecting it, but thought it would be "some time" yet. I think it's possible that the effects of the drugs on Prince's body might have led him to believe that it was soon, or knowing Prince it was some play on the number 7. For instance, MJ had passed 7 years earlier from drugs. Maybe Prince believed it was some kind of curse for stars born in 1958, that they'd die within 7 years of each other. eek Okay, that's not a real thing folks! But the person that mentioend it to me, I do know was friends with Prince, and they were pretty convinced that there was something going on and that he had prepared them.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #388 posted 05/15/18 4:12pm

benni

PeteSilas said:

well, who was it benni? we're all tired of this "people close to him" shit.

benni said:


I agree. Though, I was told by someone close to him originally, that he had prepared them and they were expecting it, but thought it would be "some time" yet. I think it's possible that the effects of the drugs on Prince's body might have led him to believe that it was soon, or knowing Prince it was some play on the number 7. For instance, MJ had passed 7 years earlier from drugs. Maybe Prince believed it was some kind of curse for stars born in 1958, that they'd die within 7 years of each other. eek Okay, that's not a real thing folks! But the person that mentioend it to me, I do know was friends with Prince, and they were pretty convinced that there was something going on and that he had prepared them.


Pete, it wasn't anyone that anyone on here would know. She was "just a fan" that Prince took an interest in and befriended. And no, it wasn't one of the fake Prince's that used to frequent the internet, pretending to be him. She actually used to hang at PP and had pictures of private areas of PP that you wouldn't see if you were just there for one of the concerts. I didn't ask her for details, didn't want to know details. And unfortunately, in this situation, I don't feel that I am free to give her name since she isn't a well-known person. She doesn't post on the org either, as far as I know, but I wouldn't want to violate her privacy if she does.

[Edited 5/15/18 16:14pm]

Reply #389 posted 05/15/18 4:20pm

cloveringold85

benni said:

PeteSilas said:

well, who was it benni? we're all tired of this "people close to him" shit.


Pete, it wasn't anyone that anyone on here would know. She was "just a fan" that Prince took an interest in and befriended. And no, it wasn't one of the fake Prince's that used to frequent the internet, pretending to be him. She actually used to hang at PP and had pictures of private areas of PP that you wouldn't see if you were just there for one of the concerts. I didn't ask her for details, didn't want to know details. And unfortunately, in this situation, I don't feel that I am free to give her name since she isn't a well-known person. She doesn't post on the org either, as far as I know, but I wouldn't want to violate her privacy if she does.

[Edited 5/15/18 16:14pm]

.

You said it was someone close to Prince and they were expecting it. Expecting what? That he was going to take illegal Fentanyl and overdose? Did this person speak to the investigators?

.

I don't think a "fan" would have such close & personal information about Prince. All this is just hearsay and it's not credible.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #390 posted 05/15/18 4:26pm

benni

cloveringold85 said:

benni said:


Pete, it wasn't anyone that anyone on here would know. She was "just a fan" that Prince took an interest in and befriended. And no, it wasn't one of the fake Prince's that used to frequent the internet, pretending to be him. She actually used to hang at PP and had pictures of private areas of PP that you wouldn't see if you were just there for one of the concerts. I didn't ask her for details, didn't want to know details. And unfortunately, in this situation, I don't feel that I am free to give her name since she isn't a well-known person. She doesn't post on the org either, as far as I know, but I wouldn't want to violate her privacy if she does.

[Edited 5/15/18 16:14pm]

.

You said it was someone close to Prince and they were expecting it. Expecting what? That he was going to take illegal Fentanyl and overdose? Did this person speak to the investigators?

.

I don't think a "fan" would have such close & personal information about Prince. All this is just hearsay and it's not credible.


They were "friends' with Prince. I don't know if she spoke with investigators, as I didn't ask. No, they weren't expecting the overdose. Something else. As I said, I didn't ask details, didn't want to know details, and I doubt they would have given them to me, because I was merely asking if they were okay. And yes, it's hearsay, from this individual to me, so take it for what it is worth. I'm not telling anyone to believe me, just sharing what was told to me.

Reply #391 posted 05/15/18 4:34pm

PeteSilas

benni said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

You said it was someone close to Prince and they were expecting it. Expecting what? That he was going to take illegal Fentanyl and overdose? Did this person speak to the investigators?

.

I don't think a "fan" would have such close & personal information about Prince. All this is just hearsay and it's not credible.


They were "friends' with Prince. I don't know if she spoke with investigators, as I didn't ask. No, they weren't expecting the overdose. Something else. As I said, I didn't ask details, didn't want to know details, and I doubt they would have given them to me, because I was merely asking if they were okay. And yes, it's hearsay, from this individual to me, so take it for what it is worth. I'm not telling anyone to believe me, just sharing what was told to me.

thank you benni, but i was just pointing out how tired some of us are of the old "people close to him" line. of course you shouldn't tell us but for most of these like statements, they should say or keep their mouths shut.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #392 posted 05/15/18 4:37pm

purplerabbithole

If Prince took fentanyl on the 15th and didn't take any fentanyl until the 21th, then the original batch of fentanyl would have had time to leave his urine and the last batch may not have made it to his urine yet (makes sense since he tested positive for opiods at Shulbarg's office but apparently did not test positive for fentanyl) . Am I getting that wrong? I don't know much about how long it stays in the liver and gastric system so perhaps you are correct that he didn't take any of his Bayer pills on the 16th, 17th, 18, and 19th and 20th. But there was so much in his liver, it makes me think he had the tolerance to consume that much in the first place. I believe he may have taken it more than once during the later half of the 20th and early hours of the 21st for so much to be his liver, blood and his stomach.I assumed that the junk in his stomach hadn't metabolized yet but the stuff in his liver and blood had. Correct me (politely please) if you know more about the science. Anyhow, none of that proves whether it was on accident or on purpose. He may have wanted to live that week but changed his mind and busted out the more dangerous stuff on the 21st.


As for the suicide question, I can't speak definitively that he killed himself but you can't speak definitively either that he did not committ suicide. His religion is also against drug usage, promiscuity etc. Prince thought the way PRince thought. He may have justified it to himself that God would forgive him. ONly he knew what he felt about suicide at the end of his life. the fact that he busted out the more potent stuff (when he had the milder stuff around) the night before his rehab (and after a doctor had already tested him) seems disconcerting to me. He went without the strong stuff for 5 days (why couldn't he make it one more night?) especially if lidocaine and percocet was lying around. Also, disconcerting is that fact that Bayer bottles had one thing and Aleve bottles had another thing. They weren't all just mixed together as much as people are saying.

laytonian said:

purplerabbithole said:
They could not have been that new.there was a lot of fentanyl in his liver. He had a tolerance. I think at very least he knew it was not the standard Percocet
You are confusing what I said and trying to justify your position. Bull. He had no fentanyl in his urine. Only Percocet/hydro. You need to learn how the body metabolizes. Fentanyl stays in the body for about four days. The only traces were in his gastric system and liver. If he was taking it all the time, it would have been in his urine. It would only take a few pills, if they were pure fentanyl, to kill a human. I REPEAT: he took the prescribed Percocet sometime during the week and just likely reached for the handy Bayer bottle. He'd been told in Moline it looked like Percocet. Suicide would be a mortal sin to him. [Edited 5/15/18 12:27pm]

[Edited 5/15/18 16:38pm]

[Edited 5/15/18 16:41pm]

[Edited 5/15/18 17:06pm]

Reply #393 posted 05/15/18 4:41pm

benni

PeteSilas said:

benni said:


They were "friends' with Prince. I don't know if she spoke with investigators, as I didn't ask. No, they weren't expecting the overdose. Something else. As I said, I didn't ask details, didn't want to know details, and I doubt they would have given them to me, because I was merely asking if they were okay. And yes, it's hearsay, from this individual to me, so take it for what it is worth. I'm not telling anyone to believe me, just sharing what was told to me.

thank you benni, but i was just pointing out how tired some of us are of the old "people close to him" line. of course you shouldn't tell us but for most of these like statements, they should say or keep their mouths shut.


I know, Pete. I get that, "the tired of it". I've seen a few that I wish would just say, but I also try to understand from their perspective. In some instances, things are told in confidence and if they reveal the "source" of who it was that was "close to Prince', and it gets back to that person, that person wouldn't trust them any more to share any stories about Prince with them.

In my situation, I never questioned this person about Prince before, never asked questions about their relationship with Prince, and this person never shared any of the stories with me. I only know about the pictures because I've seen them since his passing and know they came from this person. And I've seen associates "talk" with this person and ask if this person is okay following the death and they've shared inside "jokes" or "comments" with each other. I'm on the fringe of this person's fringe, if that makes sense.

Reply #394 posted 05/15/18 4:46pm

Krystalkisses

cloveringold85 said:

PennyPurple said:

Kirk had a cracked tooth and had an appointment with his dentist to get it fixed. He had to go to Atlanta with Prince and had to cancel at the last minute. He asked his dentist for a script for pain pills and she gave it to him. When the dentist found out about Moline she called Kirk cuz she was pissed about the pills she gave him. She advised Kirk to get him into rehab.


Heck thinking back about the dentist, it seems like she cared more then P's friends/employees did.

.

Yes, she was mad!! mad

.

Then, Kirk tells her he's gonna take Prince to see his doctor, and we know how well that went. rolleyes

Oh wow! Good for her though. She didn't have to mince any words...finally someone was like "Quit screwing around he needs rehab. What are you guys doing????" I'm sure the dentist wanted to protect herself too though.

Reply #395 posted 05/15/18 4:54pm

purplerabbithole

She was a doctor. She had the professional knowledge and objectivity. He obviously was concerned enough to take P to the doctor after that conversation. Is it possible that Kirk didn't know that the Bayer bottle didn't just contain more percocet (or something else of similar potency) and that he thought after the hospital stay, PRince's evasiveness and the pharmacists saying it was percocet that P had downed more than he was willing to admit on the 15th...that is, until the dentist said, there is no way that was just percocet and you had better look into it.

Krystalkisses said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yes, she was mad!! mad

.

Then, Kirk tells her he's gonna take Prince to see his doctor, and we know how well that went. rolleyes

Oh wow! Good for her though. She didn't have to mince any words...finally someone was like "Quit screwing around he needs rehab. What are you guys doing????" I'm sure the dentist wanted to protect herself too though.

[Edited 5/15/18 16:58pm]

Reply #396 posted 05/15/18 4:57pm

LilaLiebe

Strawberrylova123 said:

PeteSilas said:

i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility. Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe. If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.

Prince...did..not...have...a..terminal...illness, Dr. S said their wasn't anything significant in his blood test besides slight anemia. A disease would've shown up in his blood and urine test.

You honestly believe that every single more serious disease and condition a human being can have will be revealed by doing basic blood work and urine tests? That's not so.

An old soul
Reply #397 posted 05/15/18 4:59pm

LilaLiebe

benni said:

PeteSilas said:

well, who was it benni? we're all tired of this "people close to him" shit.


Pete, it wasn't anyone that anyone on here would know. She was "just a fan" that Prince took an interest in and befriended. And no, it wasn't one of the fake Prince's that used to frequent the internet, pretending to be him. She actually used to hang at PP and had pictures of private areas of PP that you wouldn't see if you were just there for one of the concerts. I didn't ask her for details, didn't want to know details. And unfortunately, in this situation, I don't feel that I am free to give her name since she isn't a well-known person. She doesn't post on the org either, as far as I know, but I wouldn't want to violate her privacy if she does.

[Edited 5/15/18 16:14pm]

hmmm penguin

An old soul
Reply #398 posted 05/15/18 5:00pm

purplerabbithole

They may have known Prince's longing to go but not how or when he was going to do it.

cloveringold85 said:

benni said:


Pete, it wasn't anyone that anyone on here would know. She was "just a fan" that Prince took an interest in and befriended. And no, it wasn't one of the fake Prince's that used to frequent the internet, pretending to be him. She actually used to hang at PP and had pictures of private areas of PP that you wouldn't see if you were just there for one of the concerts. I didn't ask her for details, didn't want to know details. And unfortunately, in this situation, I don't feel that I am free to give her name since she isn't a well-known person. She doesn't post on the org either, as far as I know, but I wouldn't want to violate her privacy if she does.

[Edited 5/15/18 16:14pm]

.

You said it was someone close to Prince and they were expecting it. Expecting what? That he was going to take illegal Fentanyl and overdose? Did this person speak to the investigators?

.

I don't think a "fan" would have such close & personal information about Prince. All this is just hearsay and it's not credible.

Reply #399 posted 05/15/18 5:01pm

cloveringold85

benni said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

You said it was someone close to Prince and they were expecting it. Expecting what? That he was going to take illegal Fentanyl and overdose? Did this person speak to the investigators?

.

I don't think a "fan" would have such close & personal information about Prince. All this is just hearsay and it's not credible.


They were "friends' with Prince. I don't know if she spoke with investigators, as I didn't ask. No, they weren't expecting the overdose. Something else. As I said, I didn't ask details, didn't want to know details, and I doubt they would have given them to me, because I was merely asking if they were okay. And yes, it's hearsay, from this individual to me, so take it for what it is worth. I'm not telling anyone to believe me, just sharing what was told to me.

.

Okay, I understand.

.

I just wish these so-called "friends" of Prince would stop making these generalized statements, and yet want to hide their identity--it just feeds to the gossip and misinformation. Ya know what I'm saying?

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #400 posted 05/15/18 5:02pm

Krystalkisses

purplerabbithole said:

She was a doctor. She had the professional knowledge and objectivity. He obviously was concerned enough to take P to the doctor after that conversation.

Krystalkisses said:

Oh wow! Good for her though. She didn't have to mince any words...finally someone was like "Quit screwing around he needs rehab. What are you guys doing????" I'm sure the dentist wanted to protect herself too though.

Yes I can understand it was a delicate minefield for Kirk to navigate.

Reply #401 posted 05/15/18 5:05pm

benni

LilaLiebe said:

benni said:


Pete, it wasn't anyone that anyone on here would know. She was "just a fan" that Prince took an interest in and befriended. And no, it wasn't one of the fake Prince's that used to frequent the internet, pretending to be him. She actually used to hang at PP and had pictures of private areas of PP that you wouldn't see if you were just there for one of the concerts. I didn't ask her for details, didn't want to know details. And unfortunately, in this situation, I don't feel that I am free to give her name since she isn't a well-known person. She doesn't post on the org either, as far as I know, but I wouldn't want to violate her privacy if she does.

[Edited 5/15/18 16:14pm]

hmmm penguin


:LOL: No, NO penguins were involved! eek

Reply #402 posted 05/15/18 5:06pm

cloveringold85

purplerabbithole said:

They may have known Prince's longing to go but not how or when he was going to do it.

cloveringold85 said:

.

You said it was someone close to Prince and they were expecting it. Expecting what? That he was going to take illegal Fentanyl and overdose? Did this person speak to the investigators?

.

I don't think a "fan" would have such close & personal information about Prince. All this is just hearsay and it's not credible.

.

And, they were all such caring and good friends, that they all just stood by and "waited" for him to go? hmmm

.

Then, when Prince dies, no one seems to have a clue that he was abusing pain pills. eek confused

.

I'm being sarcastic here, but you know what I'm saying.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #403 posted 05/15/18 5:09pm

benni

cloveringold85 said:

benni said:


They were "friends' with Prince. I don't know if she spoke with investigators, as I didn't ask. No, they weren't expecting the overdose. Something else. As I said, I didn't ask details, didn't want to know details, and I doubt they would have given them to me, because I was merely asking if they were okay. And yes, it's hearsay, from this individual to me, so take it for what it is worth. I'm not telling anyone to believe me, just sharing what was told to me.

.

Okay, I understand.

.

I just wish these so-called "friends" of Prince would stop making these generalized statements, and yet want to hide their identity--it just feeds to the gossip and misinformation. Ya know what I'm saying?


I know. Personally, since more has come out about his passing, from what we knew in the very beginning, I'm not sure what to think. I honestly think Prince was probably being his usual cryptic self, those comments of "Having done everything he came to do" and after he passed, they interpreted as he was warning them.

I honestly take that comment alone as him not feeling compelled to keep putting out music, "I've done all I've come to do", meaning that he's put out the music he wanted to put out and he was starting to sleep without waking up and rushing off to record, it just mean he was finally just being himself without the music as the biggest drive in his life.

Reply #404 posted 05/15/18 5:15pm

LilaLiebe

benni said:

LilaLiebe said:

hmmm penguin


:LOL: No, NO penguins were involved! eek

lol That's good! smile

An old soul
Reply #405 posted 05/15/18 5:18pm

cloveringold85

benni said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Okay, I understand.

.

I just wish these so-called "friends" of Prince would stop making these generalized statements, and yet want to hide their identity--it just feeds to the gossip and misinformation. Ya know what I'm saying?


I know. Personally, since more has come out about his passing, from what we knew in the very beginning, I'm not sure what to think. I honestly think Prince was probably being his usual cryptic self, those comments of "Having done everything he came to do" and after he passed, they interpreted as he was warning them.

I honestly take that comment alone as him not feeling compelled to keep putting out music, "I've done all I've come to do", meaning that he's put out the music he wanted to put out and he was starting to sleep without waking up and rushing off to record, it just mean he was finally just being himself without the music as the biggest drive in his life.

.

I agree. I think Prince's words were taken out of context and Tyka got those words from Judith--at least, that is what it sounds like to me.

.

Saying "I've done all that I came to do" can mean a plethora of things -- not necessarily meaning they are checking-out of this life.

.

It's like they are just trying to put the pieces together, and concluded "Yea, that's what Prince meant"?? confused

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #406 posted 05/15/18 5:18pm

benni

LilaLiebe said:

benni said:


:LOL: No, NO penguins were involved! eek

lol That's good! smile



lol I saw that penguin come up and I thought, "Oh NO! Please don't let her be thinking I'm talking about penguin girl!" eek I think her 15 minutes of fame have come and gone!

Reply #407 posted 05/15/18 5:27pm

purplerabbithole

Maybe you guys are right. But consider one thing. You all state that his saying he had done all he needed to do was his belief that he was giving up the work. But then when we mention suicide, some of you counter that he was making plans so therefore suicide doesn't make sense. He was making plans but many of those plans started involving looking back. Even Lisa Coleman was unsettled by the intimacy and nostalgic nature of the piano and microphone tour. But then again, he played many new songs on that tour. Prince's emotions might have been eratic and conflicting, but giving up was something new to his vocabulary...however, he wasn't exactly relaxing. He worked til nearly the end. My belief is that suicidal notions may come and go..but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Maybe before that last week, he wanted to cram a lot in... And PRN wriitng a memoir--that was rather unusual.

cloveringold85 said:

benni said:


I know. Personally, since more has come out about his passing, from what we knew in the very beginning, I'm not sure what to think. I honestly think Prince was probably being his usual cryptic self, those comments of "Having done everything he came to do" and after he passed, they interpreted as he was warning them.

I honestly take that comment alone as him not feeling compelled to keep putting out music, "I've done all I've come to do", meaning that he's put out the music he wanted to put out and he was starting to sleep without waking up and rushing off to record, it just mean he was finally just being himself without the music as the biggest drive in his life.

.

I agree. I think Prince's words were taken out of context and Tyka got those words from Judith--at least, that is what it sounds like to me.

.

Saying "I've done all that I came to do" can mean a plethora of things -- not necessarily meaning they are checking-out of this life.

.

It's like they are just trying to put the pieces together, and concluded "Yea, that's what Prince meant"?? confused

[Edited 5/15/18 17:28pm]

Reply #408 posted 05/15/18 5:38pm

benni

purplerabbithole said:

Maybe you guys are right. But consider one thing. You all state that his saying he had done all he needed to do was his belief that he was giving up the work. But then when we mention suicide, some of you counter that he was making plans so therefore suicide doesn't make sense. He was making plans but many of those plans started involving looking back. Even Lisa Coleman was unsettled by the intimacy and nostalgic nature of the piano and microphone tour. But then again, he played many new songs on that tour. Prince's emotions might have been eratic and conflicting, but giving up was something new to his vocabulary...however, he wasn't exactly relaxing. He worked til nearly the end. My belief is that suicidal notions may come and go..but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Maybe before that last week, he wanted to cram a lot in... And PRN wriitng a memoir--that was rather unusual.

cloveringold85 said:

.

I agree. I think Prince's words were taken out of context and Tyka got those words from Judith--at least, that is what it sounds like to me.

.

Saying "I've done all that I came to do" can mean a plethora of things -- not necessarily meaning they are checking-out of this life.

.

It's like they are just trying to put the pieces together, and concluded "Yea, that's what Prince meant"?? confused

[Edited 5/15/18 17:28pm]


purplerabbithole, the one reason why I don't give any credibility to the idea of suicide is because of who Prince was. Everything else aside, Prince was a deeply spiritual and religious man. Everything he did, he was always pointing to God. God was his inspiration. His music, his gift, came from God. The pain pills, I can even understand, given that associates have described that Prince was in pain, though there were no official documentation related to the pain. I've taken pain pills for chronic pain, and I've seen how easy it would be to get addicted to them. When you are used to hurting all the time, having those moments of no pain, being able to move without pain, it's a ... it's a relief. But no one, no one, will ever convince me that Prince committed suicide, knowing how deeply spiritual and religious he was. Suicide goes against everything that man believed in. Everything.

As far as looking back, it happens when we get older, when we feel we've done everything we've set out to accomplish. We look back at our lives to try to figure out, "was it all worth it? did I miss something in my pursuit to achieve what I've accomplished?" And he may even have been thinking about the ending...."When I finally die, can I face God and say, "I've lived a good life"?"

I know there are those that want to believe Prince was so miserable in his life, all of the pain, the heartache, the fear of not ever performing again, whatever reasons they may put to it, the loss of Denise, whatever it might be, that it would cause Prince to kill himself.

But when you have lived the life Prince did in the beginning, it makes you stronger. It makes you face life head on and on your own terms. You don't run from that life for anything. And Prince was not someone that had ever ran from life.

Reply #409 posted 05/15/18 6:06pm

LilaLiebe

benni said:

LilaLiebe said:

lol That's good! smile



lol I saw that penguin come up and I thought, "Oh NO! Please don't let her be thinking I'm talking about penguin girl!" eek I think her 15 minutes of fame have come and gone!

lol I think she's old news too, thank goodness! (it appears she hasn't given up on her fanfic yet though)

An old soul
Reply #410 posted 05/15/18 6:14pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2

benni said:

 



purplerabbithole said:


Maybe you guys are right. But consider one thing. You all state that his saying he had done all he needed to do was his belief that he was giving up the work. But then when we mention suicide, some of you counter that he was making plans so therefore suicide doesn't make sense. He was making plans but many of those plans started involving looking back. Even Lisa Coleman was unsettled by the intimacy and nostalgic nature of the piano and microphone tour. But then again, he played many new songs on that tour.  Prince's emotions might have been eratic and conflicting, but giving up was something new to his vocabulary...however, he wasn't exactly relaxing. He worked til nearly the end. My belief is that suicidal notions may come and go..but that doesn't mean they don't exist.  Maybe before that last week, he wanted to cram a lot in... And PRN wriitng a memoir--that was rather unusual. 


 


 


 


 


 


 



cloveringold85 said:


 


.


I agree.  I think Prince's words were taken out of context and Tyka got those words from Judith--at least, that is what it sounds like to me.


.


Saying "I've done all that I came to do" can mean a plethora of things -- not necessarily meaning they are checking-out of this life.


.


It's like they are just trying to put the pieces together, and concluded "Yea, that's what Prince meant"??  confused


 


 



 


[Edited 5/15/18 17:28pm]




purplerabbithole, the one reason why I don't give any credibility to the idea of suicide is because of who Prince was.  Everything else aside, Prince was a deeply spiritual and religious man.  Everything he did, he was always pointing to God.  God was his inspiration.  His music, his gift, came from God.  The pain pills, I can even understand, given that associates have described that Prince was in pain, though there were no official documentation related to the pain.  I've taken pain pills for chronic pain, and I've seen how easy it would be to get addicted to them.  When you are used to hurting all the time, having those moments of no pain, being able to move without pain, it's a ... it's a relief.  But no one, no one, will ever convince me that Prince committed suicide, knowing how deeply spiritual and religious he was.  Suicide goes against everything that man believed in.  Everything.  

As far as looking back, it happens when we get older, when we feel we've done everything we've set out to accomplish.  We look back at our lives to try to figure out, "was it all worth it?  did I miss something in my pursuit to achieve what I've accomplished?"  And he may even have been thinking about the ending...."When I finally die, can I face God and say, "I've lived a good life"?"  

I know there are those that want to believe Prince was so miserable in his life, all of the pain, the heartache, the fear of not ever performing again, whatever reasons they may put to it, the loss of Denise, whatever it might be, that it would cause Prince to kill himself.  

But when you have lived the life Prince did in the beginning, it makes you stronger.  It makes you face life head on and on your own terms.  You don't run from that life for anything.  And Prince was not someone that had ever ran from life.  




I have no idea what happened, for me any scenario could be the truth. However I do not think anyone deep in addiction is "facing their life head on"...drug addiction is the definition of "running from your life". Whatever happened he was not in a good or healthy place
Reply #411 posted 05/15/18 6:25pm

benni

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

benni said:


purplerabbithole, the one reason why I don't give any credibility to the idea of suicide is because of who Prince was. Everything else aside, Prince was a deeply spiritual and religious man. Everything he did, he was always pointing to God. God was his inspiration. His music, his gift, came from God. The pain pills, I can even understand, given that associates have described that Prince was in pain, though there were no official documentation related to the pain. I've taken pain pills for chronic pain, and I've seen how easy it would be to get addicted to them. When you are used to hurting all the time, having those moments of no pain, being able to move without pain, it's a ... it's a relief. But no one, no one, will ever convince me that Prince committed suicide, knowing how deeply spiritual and religious he was. Suicide goes against everything that man believed in. Everything.

As far as looking back, it happens when we get older, when we feel we've done everything we've set out to accomplish. We look back at our lives to try to figure out, "was it all worth it? did I miss something in my pursuit to achieve what I've accomplished?" And he may even have been thinking about the ending...."When I finally die, can I face God and say, "I've lived a good life"?"

I know there are those that want to believe Prince was so miserable in his life, all of the pain, the heartache, the fear of not ever performing again, whatever reasons they may put to it, the loss of Denise, whatever it might be, that it would cause Prince to kill himself.

But when you have lived the life Prince did in the beginning, it makes you stronger. It makes you face life head on and on your own terms. You don't run from that life for anything. And Prince was not someone that had ever ran from life.

I have no idea what happened, for me any scenario could be the truth. However I do not think anyone deep in addiction is "facing their life head on"...drug addiction is the definition of "running from your life". Whatever happened he was not in a good or healthy place


I still go back and forth between addiction and dependence. Dependence fits more, when you consider that Prince continued to work, was able to function completely, put out music, performed, etc. Addicts usually have their lives and their livelihoods disrupted, aren't able to continue to perform at their jobs, and live and breathe for their drug of choice. With dependence, your body has grown accustomed to the drug and needs it to be able to function normally. With addiction, it's a compulsive use of the drug with a disruption to social, work, and family obligations. Dependence can occur, even if you take the medication as prescribed. And withdrawals can occur if you stop the drug if you are dependent upon it.

When I look at Prince, the way he was able to function, the way no one knew of his use, I lean towards dependence. There is no way an addict can hide their usage. And if he was dependent upon it, he would require more of it over time to achieve the same effects (to rid himself of the pain). For the addict, it's the psychological impact of that drug that drives them. For the dependent, it's just the desire to be able to function normally.

Reply #412 posted 05/15/18 6:25pm

PennyPurple

cloveringold85 said:

.

And, they were all such caring and good friends, that they all just stood by and "waited" for him to go? hmmm

.

Then, when Prince dies, no one seems to have a clue that he was abusing pain pills. eek confused

.

I'm being sarcastic here, but you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, that pisses me off too. And let's add to it a bit more....apply for a trademark days if not hours after he died, let's plan some reunion tours and make $$ off Prince while we're at it, and hey why not write a book. sad

Reply #413 posted 05/15/18 6:48pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2

benni said:

 



LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:


benni said:

 



purplerabbithole, the one reason why I don't give any credibility to the idea of suicide is because of who Prince was.  Everything else aside, Prince was a deeply spiritual and religious man.  Everything he did, he was always pointing to God.  God was his inspiration.  His music, his gift, came from God.  The pain pills, I can even understand, given that associates have described that Prince was in pain, though there were no official documentation related to the pain.  I've taken pain pills for chronic pain, and I've seen how easy it would be to get addicted to them.  When you are used to hurting all the time, having those moments of no pain, being able to move without pain, it's a ... it's a relief.  But no one, no one, will ever convince me that Prince committed suicide, knowing how deeply spiritual and religious he was.  Suicide goes against everything that man believed in.  Everything.  

As far as looking back, it happens when we get older, when we feel we've done everything we've set out to accomplish.  We look back at our lives to try to figure out, "was it all worth it?  did I miss something in my pursuit to achieve what I've accomplished?"  And he may even have been thinking about the ending...."When I finally die, can I face God and say, "I've lived a good life"?"  

I know there are those that want to believe Prince was so miserable in his life, all of the pain, the heartache, the fear of not ever performing again, whatever reasons they may put to it, the loss of Denise, whatever it might be, that it would cause Prince to kill himself.  

But when you have lived the life Prince did in the beginning, it makes you stronger.  It makes you face life head on and on your own terms.  You don't run from that life for anything.  And Prince was not someone that had ever ran from life.  



I have no idea what happened, for me any scenario could be the truth. However I do not think anyone deep in addiction is "facing their life head on"...drug addiction is the definition of "running from your life". Whatever happened he was not in a good or healthy place


I still go back and forth between addiction and dependence.  Dependence fits more, when you consider that Prince continued to work, was able to function completely, put out music, performed, etc.  Addicts usually have their lives and their livelihoods disrupted, aren't able to continue to perform at their jobs, and live and breathe for their drug of choice.  With dependence, your body has grown accustomed to the drug and needs it to be able to function normally.  With addiction, it's a compulsive use of the drug with a disruption to social, work, and family obligations.  Dependence can occur, even if you take the medication as prescribed.  And withdrawals can occur if you stop the drug if you are dependent upon it.  

When I look at Prince, the way he was able to function, the way no one knew of his use, I lean towards dependence.  There is no way an addict can hide their usage.  And if he was dependent upon it, he would require more of it over time to achieve the same effects (to rid himself of the pain).  For the addict, it's the psychological impact of that drug that drives them.  For the dependent, it's just the desire to be able to function normally.




No one here knows what was going on, but psychologically speaking he looked horrifically impacted by his drug use, and though he may have been functioning, based on his physical appearance nothing was normal...
Reply #414 posted 05/15/18 6:51pm

Bodhitheblackdog

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

benni said:


purplerabbithole, the one reason why I don't give any credibility to the idea of suicide is because of who Prince was. Everything else aside, Prince was a deeply spiritual and religious man. Everything he did, he was always pointing to God. God was his inspiration. His music, his gift, came from God. The pain pills, I can even understand, given that associates have described that Prince was in pain, though there were no official documentation related to the pain. I've taken pain pills for chronic pain, and I've seen how easy it would be to get addicted to them. When you are used to hurting all the time, having those moments of no pain, being able to move without pain, it's a ... it's a relief. But no one, no one, will ever convince me that Prince committed suicide, knowing how deeply spiritual and religious he was. Suicide goes against everything that man believed in. Everything.

As far as looking back, it happens when we get older, when we feel we've done everything we've set out to accomplish. We look back at our lives to try to figure out, "was it all worth it? did I miss something in my pursuit to achieve what I've accomplished?" And he may even have been thinking about the ending...."When I finally die, can I face God and say, "I've lived a good life"?"

I know there are those that want to believe Prince was so miserable in his life, all of the pain, the heartache, the fear of not ever performing again, whatever reasons they may put to it, the loss of Denise, whatever it might be, that it would cause Prince to kill himself.

But when you have lived the life Prince did in the beginning, it makes you stronger. It makes you face life head on and on your own terms. You don't run from that life for anything. And Prince was not someone that had ever ran from life.

I have no idea what happened, for me any scenario could be the truth. However I do not think anyone deep in addiction is "facing their life head on"...drug addiction is the definition of "running from your life". Whatever happened he was not in a good or healthy place

co-sign and thanks for your comments...

[Edited 5/15/18 19:55pm]

Reply #415 posted 05/15/18 7:30pm

Strawberrylova123

LilaLiebe said:[quote]

 



Strawberrylova123 said:


PeteSilas said:

 


i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility.  Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe.  If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.  



Prince...did..not...have...a..terminal...illness, Dr. S said their wasn't anything significant in his blood test besides slight anemia. A disease would've shown up in his blood and urine test.

You honestly believe that every single more serious disease and condition a human being can have will be revealed by doing basic blood work and urine tests? That's not so.

[/
It's not basic blood work because blood isn't basic
[Edited 5/15/18 19:34pm]
Reply #416 posted 05/15/18 8:12pm

Krystalkisses

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

benni said:

 



purplerabbithole said:


Maybe you guys are right. But consider one thing. You all state that his saying he had done all he needed to do was his belief that he was giving up the work. But then when we mention suicide, some of you counter that he was making plans so therefore suicide doesn't make sense. He was making plans but many of those plans started involving looking back. Even Lisa Coleman was unsettled by the intimacy and nostalgic nature of the piano and microphone tour. But then again, he played many new songs on that tour.  Prince's emotions might have been eratic and conflicting, but giving up was something new to his vocabulary...however, he wasn't exactly relaxing. He worked til nearly the end. My belief is that suicidal notions may come and go..but that doesn't mean they don't exist.  Maybe before that last week, he wanted to cram a lot in... And PRN wriitng a memoir--that was rather unusual. 


 


 


 


 


 


 



cloveringold85 said:


 


.


I agree.  I think Prince's words were taken out of context and Tyka got those words from Judith--at least, that is what it sounds like to me.


.


Saying "I've done all that I came to do" can mean a plethora of things -- not necessarily meaning they are checking-out of this life.


.


It's like they are just trying to put the pieces together, and concluded "Yea, that's what Prince meant"??  confused


 


 



 


[Edited 5/15/18 17:28pm]




purplerabbithole, the one reason why I don't give any credibility to the idea of suicide is because of who Prince was.  Everything else aside, Prince was a deeply spiritual and religious man.  Everything he did, he was always pointing to God.  God was his inspiration.  His music, his gift, came from God.  The pain pills, I can even understand, given that associates have described that Prince was in pain, though there were no official documentation related to the pain.  I've taken pain pills for chronic pain, and I've seen how easy it would be to get addicted to them.  When you are used to hurting all the time, having those moments of no pain, being able to move without pain, it's a ... it's a relief.  But no one, no one, will ever convince me that Prince committed suicide, knowing how deeply spiritual and religious he was.  Suicide goes against everything that man believed in.  Everything.  

As far as looking back, it happens when we get older, when we feel we've done everything we've set out to accomplish.  We look back at our lives to try to figure out, "was it all worth it?  did I miss something in my pursuit to achieve what I've accomplished?"  And he may even have been thinking about the ending...."When I finally die, can I face God and say, "I've lived a good life"?"  

I know there are those that want to believe Prince was so miserable in his life, all of the pain, the heartache, the fear of not ever performing again, whatever reasons they may put to it, the loss of Denise, whatever it might be, that it would cause Prince to kill himself.  

But when you have lived the life Prince did in the beginning, it makes you stronger.  It makes you face life head on and on your own terms.  You don't run from that life for anything.  And Prince was not someone that had ever ran from life.  




I have no idea what happened, for me any scenario could be the truth. However I do not think anyone deep in addiction is "facing their life head on"...drug addiction is the definition of "running from your life". Whatever happened he was not in a good or healthy place


Yes! Thank You!
Reply #417 posted 05/15/18 8:35pm

purplerabbithole

I don't know the total context of the trademark. From what I gather she had been using the phrase to get money for charitable projects because the trademark had lapsed--whether she was aware at the time that Mayte was still on the board is unknown.. The thread on here about the trademark never really came to a clear conclusion. From what I hear the start-up money from PRince for IAPW isn't being used or even spent on stuff for Manuela, but the interest is being used towards partnerships with other non-profits. Maybe she is trying to make sure the money doesn't go too quickly to one charity and can be used and spread out over the long run.

As for the exploitation of PRince's death...it happens to all of these uber famous folks. The demands for interviews, the offers to publish etc..come rollingin. . Sometimes, I think his associates are a bunch of self-serving pricks, sometimes I see where they are coming from. Its like they were mourning the loss or trying to figure out how to react and then someone says "Why don't you write a book or do a tribute concert-tour etc. And then the loss is made easier when the money starts rolling in. Then they start self-justifying by saying that Prince would want them to honor his charities or his musicial support through such and such thing. These people are still working musicians. If they spent all their time honoring Prince for free, they would be broke. But if they don't honor him, then they come off callous and ungrateful. As for selling his stuff, his old costumes are fine. His childhood pictures seem like they should be off-limits. If your grandfather dies and you sell his old suits in a garage sale, it doesn't mean you don't love him. If you sell his pictures, that is kind of cold. . Self-serving tell-alls. that's is kind of low (if they are indeed just about self aggrandizement at the expense of Prince's privacy, but then again, maybe that is not how the writer/prince associate sees it or what they tell themselves.

PennyPurple said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

And, they were all such caring and good friends, that they all just stood by and "waited" for him to go? hmmm

.

Then, when Prince dies, no one seems to have a clue that he was abusing pain pills. eek confused

.

I'm being sarcastic here, but you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, that pisses me off too. And let's add to it a bit more....apply for a trademark days if not hours after he died, let's plan some reunion tours and make $$ off Prince while we're at it, and hey why not write a book. sad

[Edited 5/15/18 20:38pm]

Reply #418 posted 05/15/18 9:48pm

80tomato

benni said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Okay, I understand.

.

I just wish these so-called "friends" of Prince would stop making these generalized statements, and yet want to hide their identity--it just feeds to the gossip and misinformation. Ya know what I'm saying?


I know. Personally, since more has come out about his passing, from what we knew in the very beginning, I'm not sure what to think. I honestly think Prince was probably being his usual cryptic self, those comments of "Having done everything he came to do" and after he passed, they interpreted as he was warning them.

I honestly take that comment alone as him not feeling compelled to keep putting out music, "I've done all I've come to do", meaning that he's put out the music he wanted to put out and he was starting to sleep without waking up and rushing off to record, it just mean he was finally just being himself without the music as the biggest drive in his life.

the part about sleeping better ...I wonder if the meds were putting him in a deep sleep ... he seemed to think he would have just woken up by himself sfter taking the tablets on the plane

Reply #419 posted 05/15/18 10:19pm

purplerabbithole

Good point. The man should have used Ambien instead.

80tomato said:

benni said:


I know. Personally, since more has come out about his passing, from what we knew in the very beginning, I'm not sure what to think. I honestly think Prince was probably being his usual cryptic self, those comments of "Having done everything he came to do" and after he passed, they interpreted as he was warning them.

I honestly take that comment alone as him not feeling compelled to keep putting out music, "I've done all I've come to do", meaning that he's put out the music he wanted to put out and he was starting to sleep without waking up and rushing off to record, it just mean he was finally just being himself without the music as the biggest drive in his life.

the part about sleeping better ...I wonder if the meds were putting him in a deep sleep ... he seemed to think he would have just woken up by himself sfter taking the tablets on the plane

Reply #420 posted 05/15/18 10:29pm

purplerabbithole

I have posted that I think P might have decided to hang up his gloves and call it a day so to speak at the end due to exhaustion and depression. But I don't want to give the impression that I think that the last two years (since the cryptic AOA lyrics about death came out) were all gloom and doom. I think those of us who spend a lot of time on this thread (even ignoring the other threadds) need to remember that life has its ups and downs. Here are some pictures to remind us... (p cracking up his friends Damaris and Ida at a tennis match)

Damaris-Lewis.jpg

Le-chanteur-Prince-et-sa-fiancee-Damaris-Lewis-a-Roland-Garros-a-Paris-le-2-juin-2014_exact1024x768_l.jpg

main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=900171&g2_serialNumber=2

bcc928c9c023efd64ec8f2e38f800fcc.jpg

o-PRINCE-facebook.jpg

damaris-prince-825x580.jpgPrince-et-Damaris-Lewis.jpg_prince-and-damaris-lewis-watch-the-mens-singles-match-between-rafael-nadal-of-spain-and-dusan-lajovic-of-serbia-on-day-nine-of-the-french-open-at-roland-garros-in-paris-france.jpg?itok=ElVDxsEb

[Edited 5/15/18 22:40pm]

Reply #421 posted 05/15/18 11:02pm

PeteSilas

Krystalkisses said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yes, she was mad!! mad

.

Then, Kirk tells her he's gonna take Prince to see his doctor, and we know how well that went. rolleyes

Oh wow! Good for her though. She didn't have to mince any words...finally someone was like "Quit screwing around he needs rehab. What are you guys doing????" I'm sure the dentist wanted to protect herself too though.

i saw that, she said it as plain as it could be said, good for her. Kirk probably didn't tell that to prince though.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #422 posted 05/15/18 11:09pm

PeteSilas

benni said:

LilaLiebe said:

lol That's good! smile



lol I saw that penguin come up and I thought, "Oh NO! Please don't let her be thinking I'm talking about penguin girl!" eek I think her 15 minutes of fame have come and gone!

there was also some strange woman on here who said the same thing and she had twitter posts, i looked at her fb page and she looked like a real obsessive, the kind prince wouldn't want to be bothered with. this woman was told to stop posting the twitters where prince was saying he would plan a suicide and make it look accidental, she was told that that would be easy to fake (very true) and that if she had info she should go to the police, i don't know if she was banned or not but i don't see her anymore.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #423 posted 05/16/18 2:02am

MMJas

PeteSilas said:

MMJas said:

He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...

i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility. Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe. If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.

Prince could not kick the pills. His physical appearance and physical problems tell us that.

You said ilness as something that would/could make him commit suicide. I say excrutiating pain.

Reply #424 posted 05/16/18 2:24am

MMJas

disch said:

Where did you get the info about excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists at the end of his life? I know this is often assumed, but all that Dr S reported him complaining about was numbness in his hands (he told judith he had hand issues), and some vomiting. At his last appointment Dr S recording Prince's top complaint was "feeling antsy."

-

I'm not saying he didn't have other physical issues, but for whatever reason, he didn't discuss really them with the doctor, as far as I can tell. The issues with the doctor were mostly digestive and anxiety/agitation-related.

MMJas said:

He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...

Many associates have mentioned pain throughout the years, Kirk told the Police about hip pain and pain medication for it (if I'm not mistaken), JH added to it by mentioning wrist and hand pain (Prince told her he could not play if he stopped taking the pills), Prince told someone else he could no longer play the guitar and was concentrating on the piano (which allowed him to sit more), Susan mentioned bone on bone friction, he had hip surgery (and according to the autopsy's first page there was one other scar on his leg), he was wearing orthopedic shoes and loose clothes, someone else mentioned him wearing wrist and hip braces underneath the loose clothing and wrist jewelry AND he was addicted to pain medication.

Reply #425 posted 05/16/18 2:29am

MMJas

purplerabbithole said:

If Prince took fentanyl on the 15th and didn't take any fentanyl until the 21th, then the original batch of fentanyl would have had time to leave his urine and the last batch may not have made it to his urine yet (makes sense since he tested positive for opiods at Shulbarg's office but apparently did not test positive for fentanyl) . Am I getting that wrong? I don't know much about how long it stays in the liver and gastric system so perhaps you are correct that he didn't take any of his Bayer pills on the 16th, 17th, 18, and 19th and 20th. But there was so much in his liver, it makes me think he had the tolerance to consume that much in the first place. I believe he may have taken it more than once during the later half of the 20th and early hours of the 21st for so much to be his liver, blood and his stomach.I assumed that the junk in his stomach hadn't metabolized yet but the stuff in his liver and blood had. Correct me (politely please) if you know more about the science. Anyhow, none of that proves whether it was on accident or on purpose. He may have wanted to live that week but changed his mind and busted out the more dangerous stuff on the 21st.


As for the suicide question, I can't speak definitively that he killed himself but you can't speak definitively either that he did not committ suicide. His religion is also against drug usage, promiscuity etc. Prince thought the way PRince thought. He may have justified it to himself that God would forgive him. ONly he knew what he felt about suicide at the end of his life. the fact that he busted out the more potent stuff (when he had the milder stuff around) the night before his rehab (and after a doctor had already tested him) seems disconcerting to me. He went without the strong stuff for 5 days (why couldn't he make it one more night?) especially if lidocaine and percocet was lying around. Also, disconcerting is that fact that Bayer bottles had one thing and Aleve bottles had another thing. They weren't all just mixed together as much as people are saying.

laytonian said:

purplerabbithole said: You are confusing what I said and trying to justify your position. Bull. He had no fentanyl in his urine. Only Percocet/hydro. You need to learn how the body metabolizes. Fentanyl stays in the body for about four days. The only traces were in his gastric system and liver. If he was taking it all the time, it would have been in his urine. It would only take a few pills, if they were pure fentanyl, to kill a human. I REPEAT: he took the prescribed Percocet sometime during the week and just likely reached for the handy Bayer bottle. He'd been told in Moline it looked like Percocet. Suicide would be a mortal sin to him. [Edited 5/15/18 12:27pm]

[Edited 5/15/18 16:38pm]

[Edited 5/15/18 16:41pm]

[Edited 5/15/18 17:06pm]

Exactly. You can't say. Which is why I wonder why the Police were so sure about "an accident" after only a couple of hours.
I too think they might have wanted to protect his reputation and since there was no hard proof one way or the other, they might have thought "accidental overdose" would do less damage, while at the same time triggering a further investigation into Fentanyl illegal usage.
Or someone could have planted the meds to make it look like an accident based on a painkiller dependency, believing it was suicide and feeling guilty for not having prevented it. It's a theory.

Reply #426 posted 05/16/18 3:35am

Lovejunky

purplerabbithole said:

Another thing--they had no reason to believe that P was dead. Remember his hours, folks. He went to bed extremely late and sleep in to about 10. They made a few calls and probably did wait to wake him up, but for some reason since the doctor was there, they went looking for him (making instinctively thought they should get the ball rolling.) Yes, it was a health crisis but he made it for five days without dying and he was probably anxious the whole time and he had finally agreed to rehab at some point that week. I think they thought his head was in a better place (despite his anxiety) . THe withdrawal drugs were given on the 20th because that was when the appointment was scheduled with Shulbarg, I imagine.

This is shady as F...

Did Prince Know that Andrew was coming ?

Did Prince Know that Schulenberg was coming ?

This was never asked in any of the Police interviews...

If Prince didnt know both of them were coming,

Why would it have been arranged for so early in the morning knowing that Prince always slept late ?

When Kirk mentioned to Schulenberg at 8.30am That he was here waiting for Prince to wake up to give him something to take the edge off"

Why would Kirk be expecting Prince to wake up THAT early ???

If Prince did know they were coming, I WOULD ASK THE SAME QUESTION

.Ok so they called it a medical emergency...fine

but it was so well known that Prince was a night owl Why schedule them at THAT time...

The whole thing just STINKS....

and Im so bothered by it all that I vowed not top come back to this thread..yet her I am

AGAIN !

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
Reply #427 posted 05/16/18 4:15am

1Sasha

As an aside, Damaris is in Spike Lee's new movie.

Reply #428 posted 05/16/18 6:45am

Bassette

PeteSilas said:

benni said:



lol I saw that penguin come up and I thought, "Oh NO! Please don't let her be thinking I'm talking about penguin girl!" eek I think her 15 minutes of fame have come and gone!

there was also some strange woman on here who said the same thing and she had twitter posts, i looked at her fb page and she looked like a real obsessive, the kind prince wouldn't want to be bothered with. this woman was told to stop posting the twitters where prince was saying he would plan a suicide and make it look accidental, she was told that that would be easy to fake (very true) and that if she had info she should go to the police, i don't know if she was banned or not but i don't see her anymore.

So he was playing with the idea?

[Edited 5/16/18 6:46am]

Reply #429 posted 05/16/18 7:08am

disch

I agree with what you wrote about his history with pain (the only thing was the the guitar-playing -- I believe what he said was he was choosing not to play guitar to focus on piano practice for the Piano & Mic tour. He did play guitar at the Chanhassan dinner theater a month before he died).

-

I definitely think he changed his physical approach in his last years (no high heels, etc. And no more splits!) to accomodate his issues.

-

I guess what I don't have info on is that he spent his last months in "excrutiating pain" in all those body parts. The steps he took -- surgery, different shoes etc -- would be in ways to ameliorate pain and/or prevent worsening. Hopefully those steps were effective in doing that.

-

If he were debilitated by pain in his last months, I certainly wish he had brought this to the attention of Dr S or another doctor (he had surgery, so clearly he wasn't averse to that) instead of concocting his own treatment plan with black-market pills.

MMJas said:

disch said:

Where did you get the info about excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists at the end of his life? I know this is often assumed, but all that Dr S reported him complaining about was numbness in his hands (he told judith he had hand issues), and some vomiting. At his last appointment Dr S recording Prince's top complaint was "feeling antsy."

-

I'm not saying he didn't have other physical issues, but for whatever reason, he didn't discuss really them with the doctor, as far as I can tell. The issues with the doctor were mostly digestive and anxiety/agitation-related.

Many associates have mentioned pain throughout the years, Kirk told the Police about hip pain and pain medication for it (if I'm not mistaken), JH added to it by mentioning wrist and hand pain (Prince told her he could not play if he stopped taking the pills), Prince told someone else he could no longer play the guitar and was concentrating on the piano (which allowed him to sit more), Susan mentioned bone on bone friction, he had hip surgery (and according to the autopsy's first page there was one other scar on his leg), he was wearing orthopedic shoes and loose clothes, someone else mentioned him wearing wrist and hip braces underneath the loose clothing and wrist jewelry AND he was addicted to pain medication.

Reply #430 posted 05/16/18 10:47am

PeteSilas

i don't know, we all assumed the poster was faking the twitter pics that she posted, which seemed more than likely.

Bassette said:

PeteSilas said:

there was also some strange woman on here who said the same thing and she had twitter posts, i looked at her fb page and she looked like a real obsessive, the kind prince wouldn't want to be bothered with. this woman was told to stop posting the twitters where prince was saying he would plan a suicide and make it look accidental, she was told that that would be easy to fake (very true) and that if she had info she should go to the police, i don't know if she was banned or not but i don't see her anymore.

So he was playing with the idea?

[Edited 5/16/18 6:46am]

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #431 posted 05/16/18 10:54am

PennyPurple

If he was in the much pain, he should've just went to a Dr.

Reply #432 posted 05/16/18 11:48am

cloveringold85

purplerabbithole said:

Maybe you guys are right. But consider one thing. You all state that his saying he had done all he needed to do was his belief that he was giving up the work. But then when we mention suicide, some of you counter that he was making plans so therefore suicide doesn't make sense. He was making plans but many of those plans started involving looking back. Even Lisa Coleman was unsettled by the intimacy and nostalgic nature of the piano and microphone tour. But then again, he played many new songs on that tour. Prince's emotions might have been eratic and conflicting, but giving up was something new to his vocabulary...however, he wasn't exactly relaxing. He worked til nearly the end. My belief is that suicidal notions may come and go..but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Maybe before that last week, he wanted to cram a lot in... And PRN wriitng a memoir--that was rather unusual.

cloveringold85 said:

.

I agree. I think Prince's words were taken out of context and Tyka got those words from Judith--at least, that is what it sounds like to me.

.

Saying "I've done all that I came to do" can mean a plethora of things -- not necessarily meaning they are checking-out of this life.

.

It's like they are just trying to put the pieces together, and concluded "Yea, that's what Prince meant"?? confused

[Edited 5/15/18 17:28pm]

.

Writing a memoir at age 57 is not at all unusual. Sheila wrote a book. A lot of celebs write books.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #433 posted 05/16/18 11:51am

cloveringold85

benni said:

purplerabbithole said:

Maybe you guys are right. But consider one thing. You all state that his saying he had done all he needed to do was his belief that he was giving up the work. But then when we mention suicide, some of you counter that he was making plans so therefore suicide doesn't make sense. He was making plans but many of those plans started involving looking back. Even Lisa Coleman was unsettled by the intimacy and nostalgic nature of the piano and microphone tour. But then again, he played many new songs on that tour. Prince's emotions might have been eratic and conflicting, but giving up was something new to his vocabulary...however, he wasn't exactly relaxing. He worked til nearly the end. My belief is that suicidal notions may come and go..but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Maybe before that last week, he wanted to cram a lot in... And PRN wriitng a memoir--that was rather unusual.

[Edited 5/15/18 17:28pm]


purplerabbithole, the one reason why I don't give any credibility to the idea of suicide is because of who Prince was. Everything else aside, Prince was a deeply spiritual and religious man. Everything he did, he was always pointing to God. God was his inspiration. His music, his gift, came from God. The pain pills, I can even understand, given that associates have described that Prince was in pain, though there were no official documentation related to the pain. I've taken pain pills for chronic pain, and I've seen how easy it would be to get addicted to them. When you are used to hurting all the time, having those moments of no pain, being able to move without pain, it's a ... it's a relief. But no one, no one, will ever convince me that Prince committed suicide, knowing how deeply spiritual and religious he was. Suicide goes against everything that man believed in. Everything.

As far as looking back, it happens when we get older, when we feel we've done everything we've set out to accomplish. We look back at our lives to try to figure out, "was it all worth it? did I miss something in my pursuit to achieve what I've accomplished?" And he may even have been thinking about the ending...."When I finally die, can I face God and say, "I've lived a good life"?"

I know there are those that want to believe Prince was so miserable in his life, all of the pain, the heartache, the fear of not ever performing again, whatever reasons they may put to it, the loss of Denise, whatever it might be, that it would cause Prince to kill himself.

But when you have lived the life Prince did in the beginning, it makes you stronger. It makes you face life head on and on your own terms. You don't run from that life for anything. And Prince was not someone that had ever ran from life.

.

Yes! yes

yeahthat

nod

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #434 posted 05/16/18 11:58am

disch

yeah while it was unusual for him, there's actually been quite a trend in the last several years of rock stars writing memoirs, often to great acclaim (bob dylan, keith richards, springsteen, patti smith etc etc).

cloveringold85 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Maybe you guys are right. But consider one thing. You all state that his saying he had done all he needed to do was his belief that he was giving up the work. But then when we mention suicide, some of you counter that he was making plans so therefore suicide doesn't make sense. He was making plans but many of those plans started involving looking back. Even Lisa Coleman was unsettled by the intimacy and nostalgic nature of the piano and microphone tour. But then again, he played many new songs on that tour. Prince's emotions might have been eratic and conflicting, but giving up was something new to his vocabulary...however, he wasn't exactly relaxing. He worked til nearly the end. My belief is that suicidal notions may come and go..but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Maybe before that last week, he wanted to cram a lot in... And PRN wriitng a memoir--that was rather unusual.

[Edited 5/15/18 17:28pm]

.

Writing a memoir at age 57 is not at all unusual. Sheila wrote a book. A lot of celebs write books.

Reply #435 posted 05/16/18 11:59am

cloveringold85

purplerabbithole said:

I don't know the total context of the trademark. From what I gather she had been using the phrase to get money for charitable projects because the trademark had lapsed--whether she was aware at the time that Mayte was still on the board is unknown.. The thread on here about the trademark never really came to a clear conclusion. From what I hear the start-up money from PRince for IAPW isn't being used or even spent on stuff for Manuela, but the interest is being used towards partnerships with other non-profits. Maybe she is trying to make sure the money doesn't go too quickly to one charity and can be used and spread out over the long run.

As for the exploitation of PRince's death...it happens to all of these uber famous folks. The demands for interviews, the offers to publish etc..come rollingin. . Sometimes, I think his associates are a bunch of self-serving pricks, sometimes I see where they are coming from. Its like they were mourning the loss or trying to figure out how to react and then someone says "Why don't you write a book or do a tribute concert-tour etc. And then the loss is made easier when the money starts rolling in. Then they start self-justifying by saying that Prince would want them to honor his charities or his musicial support through such and such thing. These people are still working musicians. If they spent all their time honoring Prince for free, they would be broke. But if they don't honor him, then they come off callous and ungrateful. As for selling his stuff, his old costumes are fine. His childhood pictures seem like they should be off-limits. If your grandfather dies and you sell his old suits in a garage sale, it doesn't mean you don't love him. If you sell his pictures, that is kind of cold. . Self-serving tell-alls. that's is kind of low (if they are indeed just about self aggrandizement at the expense of Prince's privacy, but then again, maybe that is not how the writer/prince associate sees it or what they tell themselves.

PennyPurple said:

Yeah, that pisses me off too. And let's add to it a bit more....apply for a trademark days if not hours after he died, let's plan some reunion tours and make $$ off Prince while we're at it, and hey why not write a book. sad

[Edited 5/15/18 20:38pm]

.

Yes, that is true; however, I will never understand why Prince's family invited people into PP that Prince didn't want there.

.

I understand that some of Prince's associates want to continue honoring him, and doing their tributes, etc., etc., but at what point do you say "enough"? The fact of the matter is that Prince will always be their cash cow.

.

Some of Prince's past associates act as though they are entitled to a piece of the Purple pie; like, they feel Prince owe's them something. He does not.

.

At some point, they all need to move on with their lives and let Prince's legacy and his music speak for itself.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #436 posted 05/16/18 12:02pm

cloveringold85

80tomato said:

benni said:


I know. Personally, since more has come out about his passing, from what we knew in the very beginning, I'm not sure what to think. I honestly think Prince was probably being his usual cryptic self, those comments of "Having done everything he came to do" and after he passed, they interpreted as he was warning them.

I honestly take that comment alone as him not feeling compelled to keep putting out music, "I've done all I've come to do", meaning that he's put out the music he wanted to put out and he was starting to sleep without waking up and rushing off to record, it just mean he was finally just being himself without the music as the biggest drive in his life.

the part about sleeping better ...I wonder if the meds were putting him in a deep sleep ... he seemed to think he would have just woken up by himself sfter taking the tablets on the plane

.

I thought that was strange too; he was like "I was sleeping" but no; he was actually overdosing!

.

There are so many treatments available today for pain management and I'm unsure why Prince did not seek them out?

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #437 posted 05/16/18 12:06pm

cloveringold85

MMJas said:

disch said:

Where did you get the info about excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists at the end of his life? I know this is often assumed, but all that Dr S reported him complaining about was numbness in his hands (he told judith he had hand issues), and some vomiting. At his last appointment Dr S recording Prince's top complaint was "feeling antsy."

-

I'm not saying he didn't have other physical issues, but for whatever reason, he didn't discuss really them with the doctor, as far as I can tell. The issues with the doctor were mostly digestive and anxiety/agitation-related.

Many associates have mentioned pain throughout the years, Kirk told the Police about hip pain and pain medication for it (if I'm not mistaken), JH added to it by mentioning wrist and hand pain (Prince told her he could not play if he stopped taking the pills), Prince told someone else he could no longer play the guitar and was concentrating on the piano (which allowed him to sit more), Susan mentioned bone on bone friction, he had hip surgery (and according to the autopsy's first page there was one other scar on his leg), he was wearing orthopedic shoes and loose clothes, someone else mentioned him wearing wrist and hip braces underneath the loose clothing and wrist jewelry AND he was addicted to pain medication.

.

Yes, but a lot of musicians play the guitar, sitting down. Remember Prince did that Unplugged session--I think that was just before or around the time of his hip surgery.

.

Why would he buy a new piano and guitar? confused

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #438 posted 05/16/18 12:09pm

cloveringold85

MMJas said:

purplerabbithole said:

If Prince took fentanyl on the 15th and didn't take any fentanyl until the 21th, then the original batch of fentanyl would have had time to leave his urine and the last batch may not have made it to his urine yet (makes sense since he tested positive for opiods at Shulbarg's office but apparently did not test positive for fentanyl) . Am I getting that wrong? I don't know much about how long it stays in the liver and gastric system so perhaps you are correct that he didn't take any of his Bayer pills on the 16th, 17th, 18, and 19th and 20th. But there was so much in his liver, it makes me think he had the tolerance to consume that much in the first place. I believe he may have taken it more than once during the later half of the 20th and early hours of the 21st for so much to be his liver, blood and his stomach.I assumed that the junk in his stomach hadn't metabolized yet but the stuff in his liver and blood had. Correct me (politely please) if you know more about the science. Anyhow, none of that proves whether it was on accident or on purpose. He may have wanted to live that week but changed his mind and busted out the more dangerous stuff on the 21st.


As for the suicide question, I can't speak definitively that he killed himself but you can't speak definitively either that he did not committ suicide. His religion is also against drug usage, promiscuity etc. Prince thought the way PRince thought. He may have justified it to himself that God would forgive him. ONly he knew what he felt about suicide at the end of his life. the fact that he busted out the more potent stuff (when he had the milder stuff around) the night before his rehab (and after a doctor had already tested him) seems disconcerting to me. He went without the strong stuff for 5 days (why couldn't he make it one more night?) especially if lidocaine and percocet was lying around. Also, disconcerting is that fact that Bayer bottles had one thing and Aleve bottles had another thing. They weren't all just mixed together as much as people are saying.

[Edited 5/15/18 16:38pm]

[Edited 5/15/18 16:41pm]

[Edited 5/15/18 17:06pm]

Exactly. You can't say. Which is why I wonder why the Police were so sure about "an accident" after only a couple of hours.
I too think they might have wanted to protect his reputation and since there was no hard proof one way or the other, they might have thought "accidental overdose" would do less damage, while at the same time triggering a further investigation into Fentanyl illegal usage.
Or someone could have planted the meds to make it look like an accident based on a painkiller dependency, believing it was suicide and feeling guilty for not having prevented it. It's a theory.

.

What's even more strange is the fact that they cremated his body so quickly, and while an investigation was going on--very unusual.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #439 posted 05/16/18 12:13pm

cloveringold85

Lovejunky said:

purplerabbithole said:

Another thing--they had no reason to believe that P was dead. Remember his hours, folks. He went to bed extremely late and sleep in to about 10. They made a few calls and probably did wait to wake him up, but for some reason since the doctor was there, they went looking for him (making instinctively thought they should get the ball rolling.) Yes, it was a health crisis but he made it for five days without dying and he was probably anxious the whole time and he had finally agreed to rehab at some point that week. I think they thought his head was in a better place (despite his anxiety) . THe withdrawal drugs were given on the 20th because that was when the appointment was scheduled with Shulbarg, I imagine.

This is shady as F...

Did Prince Know that Andrew was coming ?

Did Prince Know that Schulenberg was coming ?

This was never asked in any of the Police interviews...

If Prince didnt know both of them were coming,

Why would it have been arranged for so early in the morning knowing that Prince always slept late ?

When Kirk mentioned to Schulenberg at 8.30am That he was here waiting for Prince to wake up to give him something to take the edge off"

Why would Kirk be expecting Prince to wake up THAT early ???

If Prince did know they were coming, I WOULD ASK THE SAME QUESTION

.Ok so they called it a medical emergency...fine

but it was so well known that Prince was a night owl Why schedule them at THAT time...

The whole thing just STINKS....

and Im so bothered by it all that I vowed not top come back to this thread..yet her I am

AGAIN !

.

Lovejunky: I know how you feel -- it's agonizing!! mad

.

Keep in mind, Andrew, Kirk & Meron all went for breakfast, and chit-chatting, while Prince was having a medical emergency. eek

.

Something is askew here. neutral hmmm

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #440 posted 05/16/18 12:14pm

cloveringold85

PeteSilas said:

i don't know, we all assumed the poster was faking the twitter pics that she posted, which seemed more than likely.

Bassette said:

So he was playing with the idea?

[Edited 5/16/18 6:46am]

.

It's probably all bullshit.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #441 posted 05/16/18 12:17pm

cloveringold85

disch said:

yeah while it was unusual for him, there's actually been quite a trend in the last several years of rock stars writing memoirs, often to great acclaim (bob dylan, keith richards, springsteen, patti smith etc etc).

cloveringold85 said:

.

Writing a memoir at age 57 is not at all unusual. Sheila wrote a book. A lot of celebs write books.

.

Prince was always WAY too busy to write a book. He was too busy writing music! I think he probably felt it was the right time in his life to finally write his memoirs, after a fulfulling life and music career. He was in his late 50s, and that's a time in most people's lives when they start reflecting. The man really had nothing more to prove to anyone or the world. He was the greatest artist of our time.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #442 posted 05/16/18 12:20pm

cloveringold85

Purplerabbit: Thank you for posting those sweet pictures of Prince's smile. I would have loved to be sitting there and hearing what they were all laughing about. lol

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #443 posted 05/16/18 12:35pm

Strawberrylova123

cloveringold85 said:

 



80tomato said:


 



benni said:


 



I know.  Personally, since more has come out about his passing, from what we knew in the very beginning, I'm not sure what to think.  I honestly think Prince was probably being his usual cryptic self, those comments of "Having done everything he came to do" and after he passed, they interpreted as he was warning them.  

I honestly take that comment alone as him not feeling compelled to keep putting out music, "I've done all I've come to do", meaning that he's put out the music he wanted to put out and he was starting to sleep without waking up and rushing off to record, it just mean he was finally just being himself without the music as the biggest drive in his life.  



the part about sleeping better ...I wonder if the meds were putting him in a deep sleep ... he seemed to think he would have just woken up by himself sfter taking the tablets on the plane



.


I thought that was strange too; he was like "I was sleeping" but no; he was actually overdosing!  


.


There are so many treatments available today for pain management and I'm unsure why Prince did not seek them out?


 


 


 


 


Prince was seeing a chiropractor in 2010 and 2016 so he was seeing help for pain management
Reply #444 posted 05/16/18 12:42pm

MMJas

disch said:

I agree with what you wrote about his history with pain (the only thing was the the guitar-playing -- I believe what he said was he was choosing not to play guitar to focus on piano practice for the Piano & Mic tour. He did play guitar at the Chanhassan dinner theater a month before he died).

-

I definitely think he changed his physical approach in his last years (no high heels, etc. And no more splits!) to accomodate his issues.

-

I guess what I don't have info on is that he spent his last months in "excrutiating pain" in all those body parts. The steps he took -- surgery, different shoes etc -- would be in ways to ameliorate pain and/or prevent worsening. Hopefully those steps were effective in doing that.

-

If he were debilitated by pain in his last months, I certainly wish he had brought this to the attention of Dr S or another doctor (he had surgery, so clearly he wasn't averse to that) instead of concocting his own treatment plan with black-market pills.

MMJas said:

Many associates have mentioned pain throughout the years, Kirk told the Police about hip pain and pain medication for it (if I'm not mistaken), JH added to it by mentioning wrist and hand pain (Prince told her he could not play if he stopped taking the pills), Prince told someone else he could no longer play the guitar and was concentrating on the piano (which allowed him to sit more), Susan mentioned bone on bone friction, he had hip surgery (and according to the autopsy's first page there was one other scar on his leg), he was wearing orthopedic shoes and loose clothes, someone else mentioned him wearing wrist and hip braces underneath the loose clothing and wrist jewelry AND he was addicted to pain medication.

I hear what you're saying. However, the fact the he was taking high dosages shows that he was becoming tolerant and feeling the pain still, right?

Reply #445 posted 05/16/18 12:46pm

MMJas

Strawberrylova123 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I thought that was strange too; he was like "I was sleeping" but no; he was actually overdosing!

.

There are so many treatments available today for pain management and I'm unsure why Prince did not seek them out?

Prince was seeing a chiropractor in 2010 and 2016 so he was seeing help for pain management

Which means he was in pain, right? And he was used to blacking out whilst taking pain medication. Isn't that of real concern? It probably means the pain was heavy and he had to black out to stop feeling it. It's not like you take a painkiller for a headache and then continue working or doing whatever you were doing. He regarded it as normal to black out. I would be really scared of suffocating in vomit, for instance....

Reply #446 posted 05/16/18 12:47pm

Krystalkisses

disch said:

Where did you get the info about excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists at the end of his life? I know this is often assumed, but all that Dr S reported him complaining about was numbness in his hands (he told judith he had hand issues), and some vomiting. At his last appointment Dr S recording Prince's top complaint was "feeling antsy."


-


I'm not saying he didn't have other physical issues, but for whatever reason, he didn't discuss really them with the doctor, as far as I can tell. The issues with the doctor were mostly digestive and anxiety/agitation-related.



MMJas said:


 



PeteSilas said:


 


i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything.  As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide.  With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all.  And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.  



 


He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...



 



Yeah thanks for bringing that up. I wondered in the investigation where there were medical reports of chronic pain/inflammation/ arthritis or whatever but did see surgery was included. Were any of those conditions recorded in his medical reports?
[Edited 5/16/18 18:31pm]
Reply #447 posted 05/16/18 12:52pm

80tomato

MMJas said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

cloveringold85 said: Prince was seeing a chiropractor in 2010 and 2016 so he was seeing help for pain management

Which means he was in pain, right? And he was used to blacking out whilst taking pain medication. Isn't that of real concern? It probably means the pain was heavy and he had to black out to stop feeling it. It's not like you take a painkiller for a headache and then continue working or doing whatever you were doing. He regarded it as normal to black out. I would be really scared of suffocating in vomit, for instance....

Yes , and he seemed to ENJOY and look forward to this deep sleep and he talked of seeing people who had passed while asleep .

Reply #448 posted 05/16/18 12:59pm

Strawberrylova123

MMJas said:

 



Strawberrylova123 said:


cloveringold85 said:

 


.


I thought that was strange too; he was like "I was sleeping" but no; he was actually overdosing!  


.


There are so many treatments available today for pain management and I'm unsure why Prince did not seek them out?


 


 


 


 



Prince was seeing a chiropractor in 2010 and 2016 so he was seeing help for pain management

 


Which means he was in pain, right? And he was used to blacking out whilst taking pain medication. Isn't that of real concern? It probably means the pain was heavy and he had to black out to stop feeling it. It's not like you take a painkiller for a headache and then continue working or doing whatever you were doing. He regarded it as normal to black out. I would be really scared of suffocating in vomit, for instance....


Yes from reading the 2014 pages of the files this seems to be the case
Reply #449 posted 05/16/18 1:40pm

Bodhitheblackdog

80tomato said:

MMJas said:

Which means he was in pain, right? And he was used to blacking out whilst taking pain medication. Isn't that of real concern? It probably means the pain was heavy and he had to black out to stop feeling it. It's not like you take a painkiller for a headache and then continue working or doing whatever you were doing. He regarded it as normal to black out. I would be really scared of suffocating in vomit, for instance....

Yes , and he seemed to ENJOY and look forward to this deep sleep and he talked of seeing people who had passed while asleep .

Does anyone else here see the bright line between Prince using drugs to render himself unconscious and MJ's use of propofol to render himself unconscious every night SO HE COULD SLEEP????? No wonder Prince didn't want to comment on MJ's death, saying he was "too close" to the situation. Geeez...this was not a trail of breadcrumbs...this was a trail of bread trucks...

Reply #450 posted 05/16/18 1:44pm

disch

I couldn't say -- when someone develops a dependence or addiction, they need to take the drugs (and more of them) to stave off debilitating withdrawal symptoms (things like vomiting, anxiety etc -- the kind of stuff he was complaining of Dr S and what Dr S prescribed drugs on 4/20 to combat). Dependence/addiction itself introduces another set of physical issues in addition to possible underlying pain issues.

-

What still is confusing to me is why if the physical pain was incapacitating, he didn't address it with a doctor (Dr S or someone else). Wouldn't this have been the very first thing he told Dr S when he first met with him?

MMJas said:

disch said:

I agree with what you wrote about his history with pain (the only thing was the the guitar-playing -- I believe what he said was he was choosing not to play guitar to focus on piano practice for the Piano & Mic tour. He did play guitar at the Chanhassan dinner theater a month before he died).

-

I definitely think he changed his physical approach in his last years (no high heels, etc. And no more splits!) to accomodate his issues.

-

I guess what I don't have info on is that he spent his last months in "excrutiating pain" in all those body parts. The steps he took -- surgery, different shoes etc -- would be in ways to ameliorate pain and/or prevent worsening. Hopefully those steps were effective in doing that.

-

If he were debilitated by pain in his last months, I certainly wish he had brought this to the attention of Dr S or another doctor (he had surgery, so clearly he wasn't averse to that) instead of concocting his own treatment plan with black-market pills.

I hear what you're saying. However, the fact the he was taking high dosages shows that he was becoming tolerant and feeling the pain still, right?

[Edited 5/16/18 13:46pm]

Reply #451 posted 05/16/18 2:12pm

PennyPurple

Strawberrylova123 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I thought that was strange too; he was like "I was sleeping" but no; he was actually overdosing!

.

There are so many treatments available today for pain management and I'm unsure why Prince did not seek them out?

Prince was seeing a chiropractor in 2010 and 2016 so he was seeing help for pain management

A chiropractor is not the same as a pain management specialist.

Reply #452 posted 05/16/18 2:42pm

cloveringold85

MMJas said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

cloveringold85 said: Prince was seeing a chiropractor in 2010 and 2016 so he was seeing help for pain management

Which means he was in pain, right? And he was used to blacking out whilst taking pain medication. Isn't that of real concern? It probably means the pain was heavy and he had to black out to stop feeling it. It's not like you take a painkiller for a headache and then continue working or doing whatever you were doing. He regarded it as normal to black out. I would be really scared of suffocating in vomit, for instance....

.

Yes, and we don't even know how many times he came close to being in that "black out" state and near overdose. eek

.

It's almost like an alcoholic who needs to drink more and more to get the same effect and feeling no pain, until the point of blacking-out.

.

Sad. sad

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #453 posted 05/16/18 2:44pm

cloveringold85

80tomato said:

MMJas said:

Which means he was in pain, right? And he was used to blacking out whilst taking pain medication. Isn't that of real concern? It probably means the pain was heavy and he had to black out to stop feeling it. It's not like you take a painkiller for a headache and then continue working or doing whatever you were doing. He regarded it as normal to black out. I would be really scared of suffocating in vomit, for instance....

Yes , and he seemed to ENJOY and look forward to this deep sleep and he talked of seeing people who had passed while asleep .

.

As sad as this sounds, he probably enjoyed when he could sleep and thus, feel no pain. When you again awake, you feel the pain again and repeat the cycle.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #454 posted 05/16/18 2:45pm

cloveringold85

Bodhitheblackdog said:

80tomato said:

Yes , and he seemed to ENJOY and look forward to this deep sleep and he talked of seeing people who had passed while asleep .

Does anyone else here see the bright line between Prince using drugs to render himself unconscious and MJ's use of propofol to render himself unconscious every night SO HE COULD SLEEP????? No wonder Prince didn't want to comment on MJ's death, saying he was "too close" to the situation. Geeez...this was not a trail of breadcrumbs...this was a trail of bread trucks...

.

Very true, only that MJ was doing it for other reasons. Prince had real, physical pain(s).

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #455 posted 05/16/18 2:49pm

cloveringold85

disch said:

I couldn't say -- when someone develops a dependence or addiction, they need to take the drugs (and more of them) to stave off debilitating withdrawal symptoms (things like vomiting, anxiety etc -- the kind of stuff he was complaining of Dr S and what Dr S prescribed drugs on 4/20 to combat). Dependence/addiction itself introduces another set of physical issues in addition to possible underlying pain issues.

-

What still is confusing to me is why if the physical pain was incapacitating, he didn't address it with a doctor (Dr S or someone else). Wouldn't this have been the very first thing he told Dr S when he first met with him?

MMJas said:

I hear what you're saying. However, the fact the he was taking high dosages shows that he was becoming tolerant and feeling the pain still, right?

[Edited 5/16/18 13:46pm]

.

And, this is what I've been saying all along; why didn't Dr. Schulenberg contact the family and tell them that Prince needs to get into treatment, ASAP?? Was he too afraid to tell Prince this?? I'm sure Dr. Schulenberg knows well-qualified addiction specialist in MN.

.

We will never know "why". sad

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
Reply #456 posted 05/16/18 3:06pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



80tomato said:


 



MMJas said:


 


 


Which means he was in pain, right? And he was used to blacking out whilst taking pain medication. Isn't that of real concern? It probably means the pain was heavy and he had to black out to stop feeling it. It's not like you take a painkiller for a headache and then continue working or doing whatever you were doing. He regarded it as normal to black out. I would be really scared of suffocating in vomit, for instance....



 


 


Yes , and he seemed to ENJOY and look forward to this deep  sleep and he talked of seeing people who had passed while asleep  .



Does anyone else here see the bright line between Prince using drugs to render himself unconscious and MJ's use of propofol to render himself unconscious every night SO HE COULD SLEEP????? No wonder Prince didn't want to comment on MJ's death, saying he was "too close" to the situation. Geeez...this was not a trail of breadcrumbs...this was a trail of bread trucks...




Where did he talk about wanting to sleep other than to Judith on the Atlanta trip? I thought it was the opposite he was antsy and agitated and was not sleeping much at all in the last few months. I may have missed the sleeping more discussion...did associates or prince say his sleeping patterns had changed?
Reply #457 posted 05/16/18 3:11pm

Bodhitheblackdog

cloveringold85 said:

disch said:

I couldn't say -- when someone develops a dependence or addiction, they need to take the drugs (and more of them) to stave off debilitating withdrawal symptoms (things like vomiting, anxiety etc -- the kind of stuff he was complaining of Dr S and what Dr S prescribed drugs on 4/20 to combat). Dependence/addiction itself introduces another set of physical issues in addition to possible underlying pain issues.

-

What still is confusing to me is why if the physical pain was incapacitating, he didn't address it with a doctor (Dr S or someone else). Wouldn't this have been the very first thing he told Dr S when he first met with him?

[Edited 5/16/18 13:46pm]

.

And, this is what I've been saying all along; why didn't Dr. Schulenberg contact the family and tell them that Prince needs to get into treatment, ASAP?? Was he too afraid to tell Prince this?? I'm sure Dr. Schulenberg knows well-qualified addiction specialist in MN.

.

We will never know "why". sad

WHY? Because it's the LAW to protect patient privacy...duh.I'm not sure that spilling the beans re the health of an adult to 'family members' OR ANY OTHER SENTIENT BEING lines up with HIPPA Privacy protections....would you want your private medical information shared with a half-sibling, for example, with whom you had no contact and who had never been in your home? Would you want your struggles with addiction shared with your not-too-bright sister who had drug addiction issues of her own? I mean, where would such a violation end? Would it be OK to tell Rolling Stone or TMZ just so those entities could light a fire under Prince? Unless someone is specifically named as a health care representative...they are not entitled to ANY medical information about an individual....and that goes for a spouse. Get real.This sounds like the drival posted by some orgers to the effect that if they had been around, they would have kidnapped Prince and taken him, against his will, to a hospital. Hey, while you're at it...why not sexually molest him in the car on the way over? I mean, you're a fan, right???You can do no wrong.

[Edited 5/16/18 15:13pm]

Reply #458 posted 05/16/18 3:14pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2

cloveringold85 said:

 



Bodhitheblackdog said:


 



80tomato said:


 


 


 


Yes , and he seemed to ENJOY and look forward to this deep  sleep and he talked of seeing people who had passed while asleep  .



Does anyone else here see the bright line between Prince using drugs to render himself unconscious and MJ's use of propofol to render himself unconscious every night SO HE COULD SLEEP????? No wonder Prince didn't want to comment on MJ's death, saying he was "too close" to the situation. Geeez...this was not a trail of breadcrumbs...this was a trail of bread trucks...



.


Very true, only that MJ was doing it for other reasons.  Prince had real, physical pain(s).


 


 





You know lots lots of people addicted to drugs say they are in terrible pain to get drugs or to get sympathy/less judgment for their addiction. Isn't it possible that he initially did take them to ease the pain, but in the end the drug use had very little to do with pain, and much more to do with total dependency. Which would be why he did not discuss pain with Dr S, because Dr S was the inroads to rehab so maybe tell him the truth...and as usual I have no idea what happened, just a thought...
Reply #459 posted 05/16/18 3:24pm

nelcp777

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Very true, only that MJ was doing it for other reasons. Prince had real, physical pain(s).

You know lots lots of people addicted to drugs say they are in terrible pain to get drugs or to get sympathy/less judgment for their addiction. Isn't it possible that he initially did take them to ease the pain, but in the end the drug use had very little to do with pain, and much more to do with total dependency. Which would be why he did not discuss pain with Dr S, because Dr S was the inroads to rehab so maybe tell him the truth...and as usual I have no idea what happened, just a thought...

Interesting perspective.

Reply #460 posted 05/16/18 3:35pm

Morgaine

After reading the investigation files, I believe he was in an ongoing state of withdrawal due to the varying ingredients in the street pills that were tested: some with only lidocaine, some with hydrocodone and lidocaine, some with different amounts of Fentanyl, etc.
For someone with constant pain in need of medication this is one of the worst things they can do. He should've had a chronic pain doctor & been on something long acting plus something for break through pain.
It is extremely sad to me, that his pain was treatable but he chose to do it alone, which I believe this had to do with his need to control everything.
As for Kirk, I believe he knew there were issues in the past but did not know about Prince's street meds. I believe he was doing his best to help him and I can't imagine the guilt and pain he feels from his death. I do not think Kirk is heartless, but I am well aware that people did not argue with Prince - it's quite obvious that this was a huge no-no and got many fired.

I believe he knew he was addicted. I believe it began as dependence, but in not allowing others - professionals who know more - to help & treat him, he didn't do himself any favors.
I also believe he began taking meds during the Purple Rain tour after he was injured from the tub falling.

I beleive he used it off and on for years, when it was necessary for him to perform. He was not God.

I believe after his son died, he started again, with the motivator being physical pain (mid 30s, 10+ years of jumping off speakers, etc) but opiates also make mental and emotional pain float away on a nice puffy cloud, which is one of the reasons they are so addicting

He was brilliant. A musical genius who was & always be a huge part of my life.
I do not care if he was addicted, dependent, or killed himself; many think addiction is slow suicide, anyway, and none of it will change my appreciation and love for the music he created.

I would also note there is something to be said for the masses (including myself) believing his image was his totality. I beleive that illusion, combined with his need to control his life and environment snowballed into, ultimately, his death.
Peace.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #461 posted 05/16/18 3:41pm

Bodhitheblackdog

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Very true, only that MJ was doing it for other reasons. Prince had real, physical pain(s).

You know lots lots of people addicted to drugs say they are in terrible pain to get drugs or to get sympathy/less judgment for their addiction. Isn't it possible that he initially did take them to ease the pain, but in the end the drug use had very little to do with pain, and much more to do with total dependency. Which would be why he did not discuss pain with Dr S, because Dr S was the inroads to rehab so maybe tell him the truth...and as usual I have no idea what happened, just a thought...

I have known several people addicted to opioids and the origional reason for use, usually physical pain, very quickly got lost in the fog of how good the pills made them feel physically and emotionally. If you want to hear mega shaggy dog tales, just listen to an addict riff on all the reasons they "need" the pills to ease their "pain." They never tell the truth, like good addicts, that they want the pills because they like the way they make them feel and, incidentally, 'my brain is craving them so bad I'd kill my mother for her stash.' Energy drinks 24/7 to stay awake? Tells his doc he's 'feeling antsy'? The narcan made him sick? The soup made him ill? Grow up, folks, he was an addict.

Reply #462 posted 05/16/18 3:42pm

80tomato

nelcp777 said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

cloveringold85 said: You know lots lots of people addicted to drugs say they are in terrible pain to get drugs or to get sympathy/less judgment for their addiction. Isn't it possible that he initially did take them to ease the pain, but in the end the drug use had very little to do with pain, and much more to do with total dependency. Which would be why he did not discuss pain with Dr S, because Dr S was the inroads to rehab so maybe tell him the truth...and as usual I have no idea what happened, just a thought...

Interesting perspective.

From a nytimes article may 4 2016
Prince’s representatives asked Jeremiah Freed, a blogger who runs drfunkenberry.com, to help spread the word of the party on Saturday night. Before that night, Mr. Freed said, he never really had any concerns about Prince’s condition, though he was struck by something that the musician told him in January. Prince spoke of David Bowie’s death, Mr. Freed recalled, saying he was having lucid dreams in which he communicated with people who died

And I agree with lovesymbol that maybe the pain became an easy excuse...my mum liked to have her morphine before bedtime, when she was dying from cancer, because she said she had deeper sleeps

Reply #463 posted 05/16/18 3:45pm

Morgaine

bondno9 said:

nelcp777 said:

fortuneandserendipity said: I agree with you. Perhaps Andrew describing Kirk as nervous that morning was because of the possible intervention and Kirk not knowing how Prince may act. Kirk trying to get Prince help at the last minute may have been hard on Kirk.

According to Kirk Prince requested help after meeting with KJ, Larry Graham, and Meron on the 19th. Also, he sent Prince an email early a.m. hours of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged. Sooo Kirky shouldn't have been nervous cause like he told Dr. S (morning of 4/21) he was waiting to give Prince something to take the edge off.

I don't think Kirk believed Prince had any opiates at PP. He stated he took all of the meds with him. Remember they were in various bottles, etc scattered throughout PP. I also do not believe Kirk had anything to do with the street meds, either.

Imho, he stuck his neck out for Prince by getting him the meds from Dr S and the dentist.

I don't think Kirk is a bad guy but I do think he was in way over his head.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #464 posted 05/16/18 3:46pm

Bodhitheblackdog

Morgaine said:

After reading the investigation files, I believe he was in an ongoing state of withdrawal due to the varying ingredients in the street pills that were tested: some with only lidocaine, some with hydrocodone and lidocaine, some with different amounts of Fentanyl, etc.
For someone with constant pain in need of medication this is one of the worst things they can do. He should've had a chronic pain doctor & been on something long acting plus something for break through pain.
It is extremely sad to me, that his pain was treatable but he chose to do it alone, which I believe this had to do with his need to control everything.
As for Kirk, I believe he knew there were issues in the past but did not know about Prince's street meds. I believe he was doing his best to help him and I can't imagine the guilt and pain he feels from his death. I do not think Kirk is heartless, but I am well aware that people did not argue with Prince - it's quite obvious that this was a huge no-no and got many fired.

I believe he knew he was addicted. I believe it began as dependence, but in not allowing others - professionals who know more - to help & treat him, he didn't do himself any favors.
I also believe he began taking meds during the Purple Rain tour after he was injured from the tub falling.

I beleive he used it off and on for years, when it was necessary for him to perform. He was not God.

I believe after his son died, he started again, with the motivator being physical pain (mid 30s, 10+ years of jumping off speakers, etc) but opiates also make mental and emotional pain float away on a nice puffy cloud, which is one of the reasons they are so addicting

He was brilliant. A musical genius who was & always be a huge part of my life.
I do not care if he was addicted, dependent, or killed himself; many think addiction is slow suicide, anyway, and none of it will change my appreciation and love for the music he created.

I would also note there is something to be said for the masses (including myself) believing his image was his totality. I beleive that illusion, combined with his need to control his life and environment snowballed into, ultimately, his death.
Peace.

Thank you for this great summation; especially for the bolded above. Thank God for Prince and the music.

Reply #465 posted 05/16/18 3:54pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2

Morgaine said:

 



bondno9 said:


 



nelcp777 said:


fortuneandserendipity said: I agree with you. Perhaps Andrew describing Kirk as nervous that morning was because of the possible intervention and Kirk not knowing how Prince may act. Kirk trying to get Prince help at the last minute may have been hard on Kirk.

 


According to Kirk Prince requested help after meeting with KJ, Larry Graham, and Meron on the 19th.  Also, he sent Prince an email early a.m. hours of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged. Sooo Kirky shouldn't have been nervous cause like he told Dr. S (morning of 4/21) he was waiting to give Prince something to take the edge off. 



 


I don't think Kirk believed Prince had any opiates at PP. He stated he took all of the meds with him. Remember they were in various bottles, etc scattered throughout PP. I also do not believe Kirk had anything to do with the street meds, either. 


Imho, he stuck his neck out for Prince by getting him the meds from Dr S and the dentist. 


I don't think Kirk is a bad guy but I do think he was in way over his head.  


 





Kirk may or may not be a bad guy, but he does have eye balls, and if he could walk around looking at prince the last year and not notice there was a serious problem, then Kirk has mental problems. Prince looked scary sick and to not do anything or say anything for fear of losing his job...ya, leaning towards bad guy...it defies logic for anyone to look at him and not know something was very wrong...
Reply #466 posted 05/16/18 3:59pm

purplerabbithole

I agree with a lot of what you said, except that I don't think is image and need to control were his totality. I think they were his shelter. He was neurotic, even he admitted it. Unfortunately, this "shelter" or bubble suffocated him. As for people getting fired over mentioning the drugs, there seems to be some evidence that people did try to help in subtle, non-pushy ways and weren't fired. And NDA's don't hold when a crime is committed. Firings could happen but that would not mean that the person fired could not still "out" him to the press for his drug usage--Prince being unable to successfully sue. I really think confronting him about drugs was complicated by the lack of direct evidence. Hear me out..he showed symptoms and overdosed but unless he was popping pills right in front of them it would be hard to prove in a legal sense. He could very easily make excuses, claim it was medicinal or an accident. It is only the people who would belabor the point who might actually get the truth but those people (of course) would probably be let go for invading his privacy before they would get any confirmation from him.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Morgaine said:

After reading the investigation files, I believe he was in an ongoing state of withdrawal due to the varying ingredients in the street pills that were tested: some with only lidocaine, some with hydrocodone and lidocaine, some with different amounts of Fentanyl, etc.
For someone with constant pain in need of medication this is one of the worst things they can do. He should've had a chronic pain doctor & been on something long acting plus something for break through pain.
It is extremely sad to me, that his pain was treatable but he chose to do it alone, which I believe this had to do with his need to control everything.
As for Kirk, I believe he knew there were issues in the past but did not know about Prince's street meds. I believe he was doing his best to help him and I can't imagine the guilt and pain he feels from his death. I do not think Kirk is heartless, but I am well aware that people did not argue with Prince - it's quite obvious that this was a huge no-no and got many fired.

I believe he knew he was addicted. I believe it began as dependence, but in not allowing others - professionals who know more - to help & treat him, he didn't do himself any favors.
I also believe he began taking meds during the Purple Rain tour after he was injured from the tub falling.

I beleive he used it off and on for years, when it was necessary for him to perform. He was not God.

I believe after his son died, he started again, with the motivator being physical pain (mid 30s, 10+ years of jumping off speakers, etc) but opiates also make mental and emotional pain float away on a nice puffy cloud, which is one of the reasons they are so addicting

He was brilliant. A musical genius who was & always be a huge part of my life.
I do not care if he was addicted, dependent, or killed himself; many think addiction is slow suicide, anyway, and none of it will change my appreciation and love for the music he created.

I would also note there is something to be said for the masses (including myself) believing his image was his totality. I beleive that illusion, combined with his need to control his life and environment snowballed into, ultimately, his death.
Peace.

Thank you for this great summation; especially for the bolded above. Thank God for Prince and the music.

[Edited 5/16/18 16:16pm]

Reply #467 posted 05/16/18 4:00pm

Morgaine

Bodhitheblackdog said:

kmama07 said:

disch said: Agreed on the email pulling...why didn't the investigators find this questionable and follow up?

I still think there was a vibe of 'let's protect the hometown hero' about this whole"investigation" in that 'accident' sounds so much more innocent and less violent that 'suicide.' It's also puzzling to me that given the expertise of the ME re Fent she still saw the MASSIVE, almost without precendant levels of Fent in his system as accidental rather than the result of a purposeful act.

I think in a misguided spasm of caring they were trying to protect his reputation.

I agree but would also add that I believe there are details they know that they are not releasing that led them to the idea if accidental OD from the beginning.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #468 posted 05/16/18 4:06pm

Morgaine

disch said:

Re: the fentanyl: One reason perhaps for the "accident" determination is because the ME also knew, based on the pill analysis, that each laced pill contained a massive amount of fentanyl. So it's not like he swallowed a dozen pills or whatever like an average suicide-by-pill might entail. He probably took a relatively small number of pills, what for another person (or an opioid addict with high tolerance) would be a typical dose -- if they actually were the pills they appeared to be and not laced counterfeits.

-

I still don't see any evidence that Prince knew the composition of these counterfeit pills or their potential toxicity. I still think our previous discussions that he didn't actually understand why he had the plane crisis (due to lack of testing or either him or the pills) is most in line with the facts that have come out in the investigation. (No one actually knows with certainty precisely what opioid caused the plane OD but i feel it was most likely a fentanyl-laced pill.)

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I still think there was a vibe of 'let's protect the hometown hero' about this whole"investigation" in that 'accident' sounds so much more innocent and less violent that 'suicide.' It's also puzzling to me that given the expertise of the ME re Fent she still saw the MASSIVE, almost without precendant levels of Fent in his system as accidental rather than the result of a purposeful act.

I think in a misguided spasm of caring they were trying to protect his reputation.

The released documents stated the tested pills contained differening amounts of Fentanyl so there's no consistency which means no reliable way for her (or anyone) to know whether he took one or two or three pills and how much Fentanyl they contained.

I do not think he had any idea how much he was taking. How could he? Some of the tested pills had only lidocaine. It seems obvious to me that he took a pill (or 2 or 3) because he was in pain and ended up dying because he had no idea how much Fentanyl/opiods the pill(s) contained.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #469 posted 05/16/18 4:12pm

Morgaine

laytonian said:

purplerabbithole said:
They could not have been that new.there was a lot of fentanyl in his liver. He had a tolerance. I think at very least he knew it was not the standard Percocet
You are confusing what I said and trying to justify your position. Bull. He had no fentanyl in his urine. Only Percocet/hydro. You need to learn how the body metabolizes. Fentanyl stays in the body for about four days. The only traces were in his gastric system and liver. If he was taking it all the time, it would have been in his urine. It would only take a few pills, if they were pure fentanyl, to kill a human. I REPEAT: he took the prescribed Percocet sometime during the week and just likely reached for the handy Bayer bottle. He'd been told in Moline it looked like Percocet. Suicide would be a mortal sin to him. [Edited 5/15/18 12:27pm]

Not to be a stickler but the street/bad meds were made to look like Norco/Vicodin. The pills Dr S prescribed in Kirk's name for Prince was Percocet.

Moline only IDd a pill by the markings - it wad not tested to see what it contained. If it had been, someone would've been in a lot of trouble, but Prince might still be alive, too.

I do not think he thought he was taking Fentanyl - does anyone really think that he'd hand over meds he thought were something else to be tested? I doubt it.

More and more it appears to me that he really had no idea what he was taking.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #470 posted 05/16/18 4:16pm

Morgaine

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

zenarose said:

You are right. It isn't a smoking gun. There are oodles of red flags tho. This little tidbit just twists my head. I don't understand getting meds, not using them, then throwing them away. Makes no sense. Maybe KJ had some problems of his own.(medical)

Does seem KJ has his own problem or was gathering meds to make it appear that P had a problem. The scripts in the garbage can, the dates and what appears to be what P was going to take was not what was given, it appears Kirk did the switching on at least the moline incident and the prior date P had cancelled the show on the 7th due to feeling sick.

You're (obviously) entitled to your own opinion, but I really do not think Kirk has an opiate problem and/or was trying to make it look like Prince had one. I'm not sure where you come up with that theory, but I don't agree based on what is piblically known right now.

I think he was trying to help Prince the best way he knew how and was way out of his depth. It's an extremely difficult situation to be in. At least he tried - it doens't look like anyone else ever did.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #471 posted 05/16/18 4:20pm

purplerabbithole

Others might have tried as well (perhaps in subtle or non-pushy ways). there is no way for us to know that. I know Sheila refused to enable and Morris Hayes asked him years ago and got a denial followed by Prince taking his first vacation ever..(1994). I think when he was younger, it was probably easier to hide usage behind eccentricity and isolation. When he was older, it seems to have started to catch up with him.

Morgaine said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

zenarose said: Does seem KJ has his own problem or was gathering meds to make it appear that P had a problem. The scripts in the garbage can, the dates and what appears to be what P was going to take was not what was given, it appears Kirk did the switching on at least the moline incident and the prior date P had cancelled the show on the 7th due to feeling sick.

You're (obviously) entitled to your own opinion, but I really do not think Kirk has an opiate problem and/or was trying to make it look like Prince had one. I'm not sure where you come up with that theory, but I don't agree based on what is piblically known right now.

I think he was trying to help Prince the best way he knew how and was way out of his depth. It's an extremely difficult situation to be in. At least he tried - it doens't look like anyone else ever did.

Reply #472 posted 05/16/18 4:22pm

purplerabbithole

He may not have known it was fentanyl, but he had to have known it was stronger. Maybe, he didn't care until it almost killed him in Molene and then he wondered. But I wonder whether or not he cared on the 21st.

What I find odd is that Prince said to Kirk that the overdose was because he mixed meds. But if he was mixing the percocet from Shulbarg with the Bayer pills labeled as percocet, why would he call that mixing?

Morgaine said:

laytonian said:

purplerabbithole said: You are confusing what I said and trying to justify your position. Bull. He had no fentanyl in his urine. Only Percocet/hydro. You need to learn how the body metabolizes. Fentanyl stays in the body for about four days. The only traces were in his gastric system and liver. If he was taking it all the time, it would have been in his urine. It would only take a few pills, if they were pure fentanyl, to kill a human. I REPEAT: he took the prescribed Percocet sometime during the week and just likely reached for the handy Bayer bottle. He'd been told in Moline it looked like Percocet. Suicide would be a mortal sin to him. [Edited 5/15/18 12:27pm]

Not to be a stickler but the street/bad meds were made to look like Norco/Vicodin. The pills Dr S prescribed in Kirk's name for Prince was Percocet.

Moline only IDd a pill by the markings - it wad not tested to see what it contained. If it had been, someone would've been in a lot of trouble, but Prince might still be alive, too.

I do not think he thought he was taking Fentanyl - does anyone really think that he'd hand over meds he thought were something else to be tested? I doubt it.

More and more it appears to me that he really had no idea what he was taking.

[Edited 5/16/18 16:24pm]

Reply #473 posted 05/16/18 4:29pm

Morgaine

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Morgaine said:

After reading the investigation files, I believe he was in an ongoing state of withdrawal due to the varying ingredients in the street pills that were tested: some with only lidocaine, some with hydrocodone and lidocaine, some with different amounts of Fentanyl, etc.
For someone with constant pain in need of medication this is one of the worst things they can do. He should've had a chronic pain doctor & been on something long acting plus something for break through pain.
It is extremely sad to me, that his pain was treatable but he chose to do it alone, which I believe this had to do with his need to control everything.
As for Kirk, I believe he knew there were issues in the past but did not know about Prince's street meds. I believe he was doing his best to help him and I can't imagine the guilt and pain he feels from his death. I do not think Kirk is heartless, but I am well aware that people did not argue with Prince - it's quite obvious that this was a huge no-no and got many fired.

I believe he knew he was addicted. I believe it began as dependence, but in not allowing others - professionals who know more - to help & treat him, he didn't do himself any favors.
I also believe he began taking meds during the Purple Rain tour after he was injured from the tub falling.

I beleive he used it off and on for years, when it was necessary for him to perform. He was not God.

I believe after his son died, he started again, with the motivator being physical pain (mid 30s, 10+ years of jumping off speakers, etc) but opiates also make mental and emotional pain float away on a nice puffy cloud, which is one of the reasons they are so addicting

He was brilliant. A musical genius who was & always be a huge part of my life.
I do not care if he was addicted, dependent, or killed himself; many think addiction is slow suicide, anyway, and none of it will change my appreciation and love for the music he created.

I would also note there is something to be said for the masses (including myself) believing his image was his totality. I beleive that illusion, combined with his need to control his life and environment snowballed into, ultimately, his death.
Peace.

Thank you for this great summation; especially for the bolded above. Thank God for Prince and the music.

Thank you for yur continuing honesty Bodhi!

I only have time to post occasionally but I've kept on reading through every one of these and am very grateful that you and several others have kept it real.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #474 posted 05/16/18 4:35pm

Morgaine

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Morgaine said:

I don't think Kirk believed Prince had any opiates at PP. He stated he took all of the meds with him. Remember they were in various bottles, etc scattered throughout PP. I also do not believe Kirk had anything to do with the street meds, either.

Imho, he stuck his neck out for Prince by getting him the meds from Dr S and the dentist.

I don't think Kirk is a bad guy but I do think he was in way over his head.

Kirk may or may not be a bad guy, but he does have eye balls, and if he could walk around looking at prince the last year and not notice there was a serious problem, then Kirk has mental problems. Prince looked scary sick and to not do anything or say anything for fear of losing his job...ya, leaning towards bad guy...it defies logic for anyone to look at him and not know something was very wrong...

I'm not suggesting what he did was right, I'm suggesting he did what he thought was right, without ill intention(s) which is all any of us can do.

Wasn't every single person who argued with Prince fired? How do help someone like that? If you confront them, they fire you and you can't help them.

It reminds me of an interview Lisa Marie did about MJ on Oprah after Michael died. She was talking about how angry she was for so long with the poeple around her Dad - why didn't they do more, how could they just watch, etc. She said she'd finally realized that the problem was MJ's & Elvis' reluctance and denial to change (I am very much paraphrasing).

I'm not going to blame anyone he knew for his death. As far as I can tell Prince took the drugs that killed him. No one was keeping him from seeing a legitimate doctor, he made those decisions.

If you want a person to blame, blame Prince. I love him, but he really messed up.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #475 posted 05/16/18 4:40pm

Morgaine

purplerabbithole said:

I agree with a lot of what you said, except that I don't think is image and need to control were his totality. I think they were his shelter. He was neurotic, even he admitted it. Unfortunately, this "shelter" or bubble suffocated him. As for people getting fired over mentioning the drugs, there seems to be some evidence that people did try to help in subtle, non-pushy ways and weren't fired. And NDA's don't hold when a crime is committed. Firings could happen but that would not mean that the person fired could not still "out" him to the press for his drug usage--Prince being unable to successfully sue. I really think confronting him about drugs was complicated by the lack of direct evidence. Hear me out..he showed symptoms and overdosed but unless he was popping pills right in front of them it would be hard to prove in a legal sense. He could very easily make excuses, claim it was medicinal or an accident. It is only the people who would belabor the point who might actually get the truth but those people (of course) would probably be let go for invading his privacy before they would get any confirmation from him.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Thank you for this great summation; especially for the bolded above. Thank God for Prince and the music.

[Edited 5/16/18 16:16pm]

I would add that his image was what so many people (myself included at times) believed was HIM. As a dancer and someone who is shy, I have taken on a persona to dance in front of people and I think most performers do this, including Prince. I am saying that what he presented onstage, in records, and in (most) interviews was his image, not the totality of the man, Prince.

I agree with everything you said, especially about confronting him.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #476 posted 05/16/18 4:42pm

Krystalkisses

Morgaine said:

 



Bodhitheblackdog said:


 



Morgaine said:


After reading the investigation files, I believe he was in an ongoing state of withdrawal due to the varying ingredients in the street pills that were tested: some with only lidocaine, some with hydrocodone and lidocaine, some with different amounts of Fentanyl, etc. 
For someone with constant pain in need of medication this is one of the worst things they can do. He should've had a chronic pain doctor & been on something long acting plus something for break through pain. 
It is extremely sad to me, that his pain was treatable but he chose to do it alone, which I believe this had to do with his need to control everything.   
As for Kirk, I believe he knew there were issues in the past but did not know about Prince's street meds. I believe he was doing his best to help him and I can't imagine the guilt and pain he feels from his death. I do not think Kirk is heartless, but I am well aware that people did not argue with Prince - it's quite obvious that this was a huge no-no and got many fired.   


I believe he knew he was addicted. I believe it began as dependence, but in not allowing others - professionals who know more - to help & treat him, he didn't do himself any favors.  
I also believe he began taking meds during the Purple Rain tour after he was injured from the tub falling. 


I beleive he used it off and on for years, when it was necessary for him to perform. He was not God. 


I believe after his son died, he started again, with the motivator being physical pain (mid 30s, 10+ years of jumping off speakers, etc) but opiates also make mental and emotional pain float away on a nice puffy cloud, which is one of the reasons they are so addicting


He was brilliant. A musical genius who was & always be a huge part of my life. 
I do not care if he was addicted, dependent, or killed himself; many think addiction is slow suicide, anyway, and none of it will change my appreciation and love for the music he created. 


I would also note there is something to be said for the masses (including myself) believing his image was his totality. I beleive that illusion, combined with his need to control his life and environment snowballed into, ultimately, his death.       
Peace.



Thank you for this great summation; especially for the bolded above. Thank God for Prince and the music.



Thank you for yur continuing honesty Bodhi! 


I only have time to post occasionally but I've kept on reading through every one of these and am very grateful that you and several others have kept it real. 



heart I loved what you had to say as well and agree with all of it .
[Edited 5/16/18 16:43pm]
[Edited 5/16/18 16:44pm]
Reply #477 posted 05/16/18 4:53pm

Morgaine

purplerabbithole said:

Others might have tried as well (perhaps in subtle or non-pushy ways). there is no way for us to know that. I know Sheila refused to enable and Morris Hayes asked him years ago and got a denial followed by Prince taking his first vacation ever..(1994). I think when he was younger, it was probably easier to hide usage behind eccentricity and isolation. When he was older, it seems to have started to catch up with him.

Morgaine said:

You're (obviously) entitled to your own opinion, but I really do not think Kirk has an opiate problem and/or was trying to make it look like Prince had one. I'm not sure where you come up with that theory, but I don't agree based on what is piblically known right now.

I think he was trying to help Prince the best way he knew how and was way out of his depth. It's an extremely difficult situation to be in. At least he tried - it doens't look like anyone else ever did.

There were others who confronted him, but as far as what is known publically, no one ever took him to see their doctor, called a recovery center, etc.

I'm not sugggesting a medal or brownie points, just another perspective than Kirk is some horrible guy who wanted Prince dead. If new evidence, etc becomes available, my pov could change as well.

It's too bad there weren't more people around who could see him - I think he had that 'something' that tends to blind a lot of people - throw in fame, money, good looks, smart, talented, sense of humor, etc. it can be hard for people to see past it.

Was it Jill or Wendy who had seen him in Australia for the P & M date(s) and said he was surrounded by young people who didn't really know him.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #478 posted 05/16/18 5:01pm

Mumio

Lovejunky said:

This is shady as F...

Did Prince Know that Andrew was coming ?

Did Prince Know that Schulenberg was coming ?

This was never asked in any of the Police interviews...

If Prince didnt know both of them were coming,

Why would it have been arranged for so early in the morning knowing that Prince always slept late ?

When Kirk mentioned to Schulenberg at 8.30am That he was here waiting for Prince to wake up to give him something to take the edge off"

Why would Kirk be expecting Prince to wake up THAT early ???

If Prince did know they were coming, I WOULD ASK THE SAME QUESTION

.Ok so they called it a medical emergency...fine

but it was so well known that Prince was a night owl Why schedule them at THAT time...

The whole thing just STINKS....

and Im so bothered by it all that I vowed not top come back to this thread..yet her I am

AGAIN !



Because Prince supposedly had an appointment to be seeing another doctor that morning, someone who is as yet unnamed. There may have been some coordination that was happening for him to see a doc who was qualified to start treatment with the suboxone that Andrew had brought. Schulenberg was not a drug treatment practitioner and Andrew is not a doctor.




Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
Reply #479 posted 05/16/18 5:09pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2

Morgaine said:

 



LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:


Morgaine said:

 


 


I don't think Kirk believed Prince had any opiates at PP. He stated he took all of the meds with him. Remember they were in various bottles, etc scattered throughout PP. I also do not believe Kirk had anything to do with the street meds, either. 


Imho, he stuck his neck out for Prince by getting him the meds from Dr S and the dentist. 


I don't think Kirk is a bad guy but I do think he was in way over his head.  


 



Kirk may or may not be a bad guy, but he does have eye balls, and if he could walk around looking at prince the last year and not notice there was a serious problem, then Kirk has mental problems. Prince looked scary sick and to not do anything or say anything for fear of losing his job...ya, leaning towards bad guy...it defies logic for anyone to look at him and not know something was very wrong...

I'm not suggesting what he did was right, I'm suggesting he did what he thought was right, without ill intention(s) which is all any of us can do. 


Wasn't every single person who argued with Prince fired? How do help someone like that? If you confront them, they fire you and you can't help them.


It reminds me of an interview Lisa Marie did about MJ on Oprah after Michael died. She was talking about how angry she was for so long with the poeple around her Dad - why didn't they do more, how could they just watch, etc. She said she'd finally realized that the problem was MJ's & Elvis' reluctance and denial to change (I am very much paraphrasing).


I'm not going to blame anyone he knew for his death. As far as I can tell Prince took the drugs that killed him. No one was keeping him from seeing a legitimate doctor, he made those decisions.


If you want a person to blame, blame Prince. I love him, but he really messed up.  





I just personally don't get it...of course prince is responsible, but everyone talks endlessly about addiction being a disease, but it is literally the only disease where people associated with the sick person get to say...oh well nothing I can do, I might get fired...certainly you may try to help the addict and fail, but if you never try then failure is certain...and one day before death is way too little, way too late. But just my opinion...if he was dying of heart failure and no one helped him, I am sure there would be very few people saying...but what could they have done
Reply #480 posted 05/16/18 6:11pm

bondno9

My thoughts thus far ... Kirk Johnson knew that the decedent Prince Rogers Nelson had an opiod addiction and assisted him in obtaining controlled and illegal substances. He knowingly and willingly obtained a controlled substance for Percocet on April 14, 2016 in his name. This prescription was mixed in with ANOTHER prescription for nausea and vomiting that was in his name. In an attempt to concel this fact the prescription bottle for the Percocet was discarded. As a result, it was never found. Mr. Johsnon communicated with paramedics in Moline, IL after the emrgency landing that the decedent Prince Rogers Nelson took one or two Percocet. Furthermore, on April 20th he observed the decedent Prince Rogers Nelson having "withdrawal" symptoms after visiting Dr. S but failed to obtain prompt medical assistance. Instead, he took the decedent home and did not formulate a plan to monitor the status of his health after the visit with Dr. S. Mr. Johnson's history of illegally obtaining prescriptions in his name for the usage of another person and mixing prescriptions is evidence of obtaining and concealing illegal medications for the decedent.

Reply #481 posted 05/16/18 6:13pm

LilaLiebe

Bodhitheblackdog said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

And, this is what I've been saying all along; why didn't Dr. Schulenberg contact the family and tell them that Prince needs to get into treatment, ASAP?? Was he too afraid to tell Prince this?? I'm sure Dr. Schulenberg knows well-qualified addiction specialist in MN.

.

We will never know "why". sad

WHY? Because it's the LAW to protect patient privacy...duh.I'm not sure that spilling the beans re the health of an adult to 'family members' OR ANY OTHER SENTIENT BEING lines up with HIPPA Privacy protections....would you want your private medical information shared with a half-sibling, for example, with whom you had no contact and who had never been in your home? Would you want your struggles with addiction shared with your not-too-bright sister who had drug addiction issues of her own? I mean, where would such a violation end? Would it be OK to tell Rolling Stone or TMZ just so those entities could light a fire under Prince? Unless someone is specifically named as a health care representative...they are not entitled to ANY medical information about an individual....and that goes for a spouse. Get real.This sounds like the drival posted by some orgers to the effect that if they had been around, they would have kidnapped Prince and taken him, against his will, to a hospital. Hey, while you're at it...why not sexually molest him in the car on the way over? I mean, you're a fan, right???You can do no wrong.

[Edited 5/16/18 15:13pm]

Totally THIS, and specifically to the bolded: the doctors and nurses at my clinic (and I have a lot of health problems and they know me and my spouse very well for years) will NOT speak with my husband even about refills on prescriptions or arranging certain appointments, they will ONLY speak directly to me. Unless Prince filled out forms that legally gave permission for his medical team to talk to [whoever] about his condition, by HIPPA laws no doctor can go outside patient confidentiality no no matter what the situation or how serious or dire things are.

An old soul
Reply #482 posted 05/16/18 6:23pm

Morgaine

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Morgaine said:

I'm not suggesting what he did was right, I'm suggesting he did what he thought was right, without ill intention(s) which is all any of us can do.

Wasn't every single person who argued with Prince fired? How do help someone like that? If you confront them, they fire you and you can't help them.

It reminds me of an interview Lisa Marie did about MJ on Oprah after Michael died. She was talking about how angry she was for so long with the poeple around her Dad - why didn't they do more, how could they just watch, etc. She said she'd finally realized that the problem was MJ's & Elvis' reluctance and denial to change (I am very much paraphrasing).

I'm not going to blame anyone he knew for his death. As far as I can tell Prince took the drugs that killed him. No one was keeping him from seeing a legitimate doctor, he made those decisions.

If you want a person to blame, blame Prince. I love him, but he really messed up.

I just personally don't get it...of course prince is responsible, but everyone talks endlessly about addiction being a disease, but it is literally the only disease where people associated with the sick person get to say...oh well nothing I can do, I might get fired...certainly you may try to help the addict and fail, but if you never try then failure is certain...and one day before death is way too little, way too late. But just my opinion...if he was dying of heart failure and no one helped him, I am sure there would be very few people saying...but what could they have done

Addiction is a very sad disease in many ways - it harms not only the addict but so many others and there's such a fine line between what the addict is responsible for and what they aren't. For example, most people would not find a schizophrenic culpable of robbery, not the best example but you get the point.

You're right about what people would say had he died from heart disease but addiction and heart disease are very different: heart disease is not a brain disease in which the individual is controlled via their thought processes as well as having a physical reaction (such as withdrawal).

Addiction is both simple and complicated imho and it is something that needs to be discussed more often so that more people can be made aware of it. It is sad to me that addiction and addicts are so stigmatized in society that the most prolific musician in my lifetime has been written off as a junkie by a large percentage of people.

One of the best things people who love/care for addicts can do is to learn more about the disease and how to really help them. There is usually a dynamic that occurs that the addict controls (or tries to) that enables them to continue using. Most of the people that continue to surround those who use are also sick. It is very important to note that he did not take pills around people, but hid them; this puts a huge burden on those who love him – how do you confront someone if they aren’t doing it in front of you? What’s your proof? Others have stated this in previous threads.

It is difficult to know when to help as well but there is usually a window/opportunity that occurs as the result of consequences (like Moline and people trying to find him help) when it is possible to have a conversation about it. What happens from that is up to the addict, and at some point, sometimes, you just get to accept they won't stop, they don't want to.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #483 posted 05/16/18 6:36pm

Bodhitheblackdog

Morgaine said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Morgaine said: I just personally don't get it...of course prince is responsible, but everyone talks endlessly about addiction being a disease, but it is literally the only disease where people associated with the sick person get to say...oh well nothing I can do, I might get fired...certainly you may try to help the addict and fail, but if you never try then failure is certain...and one day before death is way too little, way too late. But just my opinion...if he was dying of heart failure and no one helped him, I am sure there would be very few people saying...but what could they have done

Addiction is a very sad disease in many ways - it harms not only the addict but so many others and there's such a fine line between what the addict is responsible for and what they aren't. For example, most people would not find a schizophrenic culpable of robbery, not the best example but you get the point.

You're right about what people would say had he died from heart disease but addiction and heart disease are very different: heart disease is not a brain disease in which the individual is controlled via their thought processes as well as having a physical reaction (such as withdrawal).

Addiction is both simple and complicated imho and it is something that needs to be discussed more often so that more people can be made aware of it. It is sad to me that addiction and addicts are so stigmatized in society that the most prolific musician in my lifetime has been written off as a junkie by a large percentage of people.

One of the best things people who love/care for addicts can do is to learn more about the disease and how to really help them. There is usually a dynamic that occurs that the addict controls (or tries to) that enables them to continue using. Most of the people that continue to surround those who use are also sick. It is very important to note that he did not take pills around people, but hid them; this puts a huge burden on those who love him – how do you confront someone if they aren’t doing it in front of you? What’s your proof? Others have stated this in previous threads.

It is difficult to know when to help as well but there is usually a window/opportunity that occurs as the result of consequences (like Moline and people trying to find him help) when it is possible to have a conversation about it. What happens from that is up to the addict, and at some point, sometimes, you just get to accept they won't stop, they don't want to.

YES, the heartbreaking, devestating kernal of truth at the core of all our why? why? why?...so desperate are we to know the answer to the question of U, dear Prince....

Reply #484 posted 05/16/18 6:44pm

Morgaine

bondno9 said:

My thoughts thus far ... Kirk Johnson knew that the decedent Prince Rogers Nelson had an opiod addiction and assisted him in obtaining controlled and illegal substances. He knowingly and willingly obtained a controlled substance for Percocet on April 14, 2016 in his name. This prescription was mixed in with ANOTHER prescription for nausea and vomiting that was in his name. In an attempt to concel this fact the prescription bottle for the Percocet was discarded. As a result, it was never found. Mr. Johsnon communicated with paramedics in Moline, IL after the emrgency landing that the decedent Prince Rogers Nelson took one or two Percocet. Furthermore, on April 20th he observed the decedent Prince Rogers Nelson having "withdrawal" symptoms after visiting Dr. S but failed to obtain prompt medical assistance. Instead, he took the decedent home and did not formulate a plan to monitor the status of his health after the visit with Dr. S. Mr. Johnson's history of illegally obtaining prescriptions in his name for the usage of another person and mixing prescriptions is evidence of obtaining and concealing illegal medications for the decedent.

Dr S knowingly wrote a prescription for 15 Percocet for Prince in Kirk's name on 4-14-16 to protect Prince's privacy.

There is no proof Kirk knew Prince had an opiod addiction at that time. I personally believe he knew Prince had taken it in the past and it's possible he knew he'd had issues with it.

What do you mean by 'mixed'? That could be interpreted so many ways….

There is no proof the Percocet prescription bottle was "discarded" to "attempt to conceal" anything. Dr S knew he was writing the prescription for Prince in Kirk's name and Kirk *must* be smart enough to know his name would be in the system as having a Percocet prescription filled on 4-1-4-16.

The files say the paramedics asked Kirk what Prince took, and Kirk said he thought "maybe" Prince took Percocet.

Your statement "Kirk saw Prince having withdrawal symptoms after visiting Dr S and failed to give him prompt medical attention" is confusing to me. What was he supposed to do? Take Prince to the hospital? They'd just come from the doctor's...how do you know Prince didn't tell him 'no, I'm ok, go home?'

I think Kirk made a HUGE mistake leaving Prince alone and have thought so from the start. I believe, after reading the files, Kirk thought Prince wasn;t in any danger: Kirk even took the valium with him so Prince couldn't abuse it. He made a gigantic mistake. And he gets to live, for the rest of his life, wishing he'd stayed, done, or said something different. I do not envy him - his actions and the lack thereof were instrumental in the loss of Prince.

BUT Kirk is not legally or morally or ethically responsible for Prince. Prince is responsible for Prince.

You might be mad, I am too, but I am not going to try to make things fit where they don't to justify slander for someone who tried because I’m in pain over the loss of Prince.

Everyone makes mistakes. But Prince's mistake was so much greater than Kirk's will ever be imho.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #485 posted 05/16/18 6:48pm

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2

Bodhitheblackdog said:

 



Morgaine said:


 



LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:


Morgaine said: I just personally don't get it...of course prince is responsible, but everyone talks endlessly about addiction being a disease, but it is literally the only disease where people associated with the sick person get to say...oh well nothing I can do, I might get fired...certainly you may try to help the addict and fail, but if you never try then failure is certain...and one day before death is way too little, way too late. But just my opinion...if he was dying of heart failure and no one helped him, I am sure there would be very few people saying...but what could they have done

Addiction is a very sad disease in many ways - it harms not only the addict but so many others and there's such a fine line between what the addict is responsible for and what they aren't. For example, most people would not find a schizophrenic culpable of robbery, not the best example but you get the point.


You're right about what people would say had he died from heart disease but addiction and heart disease are very different: heart disease is not a brain disease in which the individual is controlled via their thought processes as well as having a physical reaction (such as withdrawal).


Addiction is both simple and complicated imho and it is something that needs to be discussed more often so that more people can be made aware of it. It is sad to me that addiction and addicts are so stigmatized in society that the most prolific musician in my lifetime has been written off as a junkie by a large percentage of people. 


One of the best things people who love/care for addicts can do is to learn more about the disease and how to really help them. There is usually a dynamic that occurs that the addict controls (or tries to) that enables them to continue using. Most of the people that continue to surround those who use are also sick. It is very important to note that he did not take pills around people, but hid them; this puts a huge burden on those who love him – how do you confront someone if they aren’t doing it in front of you? What’s your proof? Others have stated this in previous threads.


It is difficult to know when to help as well but there is usually a window/opportunity that occurs as the result of consequences (like Moline and people trying to find him help) when it is possible to have a conversation about it. What happens from that is up to the addict, and at some point, sometimes, you just get to accept they won't stop, they don't want to. 


 


 



YES, the heartbreaking, devestating kernal of truth at the core of all our why? why? why?...so desperate are we to know the answer to the question of U, dear Prince....





And I could agree to that if one damn person had actually beat their head into the ground trying to help him...that did not happen...so every person he knew accepted the fact that they could not help without ever trying to help..it takes balls to take action, a coward does nothing
Reply #486 posted 05/16/18 7:01pm

TrcikyChristopher

cloveringold85 said:

MMJas said:

Which means he was in pain, right? And he was used to blacking out whilst taking pain medication. Isn't that of real concern? It probably means the pain was heavy and he had to black out to stop feeling it. It's not like you take a painkiller for a headache and then continue working or doing whatever you were doing. He regarded it as normal to black out. I would be really scared of suffocating in vomit, for instance....

.

Yes, and we don't even know how many times he came close to being in that "black out" state and near overdose. eek

.

It's almost like an alcoholic who needs to drink more and more to get the same effect and feeling no pain, until the point of blacking-out.

.

Sad. sad

As I've stated before, and I really don't care at this point what records may or may not state or who doesn't believe it: Prince overdosed in LA around 2010/2011. His stomach was pumped at Cedars-Sinai. We almost lost him THEN. People in the camp knew about it. Trust me on this.

Prince had an issue with painkillers for years. Lord knows how long.

However, that still does NOT discount any underlying health issues he may have had - no matter the denial. There were other things going on that made his painkiller problem worse. It's easier for people to point to the painkillers because, theoretically, that IS what ultimately killed him. Technically.

[Edited 5/16/18 19:04pm]

[Edited 5/16/18 19:07pm]

Reply #487 posted 05/16/18 7:03pm

Morgaine

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Morgaine said:

Addiction is a very sad disease in many ways - it harms not only the addict but so many others and there's such a fine line between what the addict is responsible for and what they aren't. For example, most people would not find a schizophrenic culpable of robbery, not the best example but you get the point.

You're right about what people would say had he died from heart disease but addiction and heart disease are very different: heart disease is not a brain disease in which the individual is controlled via their thought processes as well as having a physical reaction (such as withdrawal).

Addiction is both simple and complicated imho and it is something that needs to be discussed more often so that more people can be made aware of it. It is sad to me that addiction and addicts are so stigmatized in society that the most prolific musician in my lifetime has been written off as a junkie by a large percentage of people.

One of the best things people who love/care for addicts can do is to learn more about the disease and how to really help them. There is usually a dynamic that occurs that the addict controls (or tries to) that enables them to continue using. Most of the people that continue to surround those who use are also sick. It is very important to note that he did not take pills around people, but hid them; this puts a huge burden on those who love him – how do you confront someone if they aren’t doing it in front of you? What’s your proof? Others have stated this in previous threads.

It is difficult to know when to help as well but there is usually a window/opportunity that occurs as the result of consequences (like Moline and people trying to find him help) when it is possible to have a conversation about it. What happens from that is up to the addict, and at some point, sometimes, you just get to accept they won't stop, they don't want to.

YES, the heartbreaking, devestating kernal of truth at the core of all our why? why? why?...so desperate are we to know the answer to the question of U, dear Prince....

To be completely honest, I've had to learn to accept that some people will choose the path of using rather than the path of sobriety/abstinence. I still love them.

Maybe that's what he meant by he was done, I don't know. It's possible he had surrendered in a sense - it sounds as if he was willing to at least try to change, and I think he knew he needed to.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #488 posted 05/16/18 7:15pm

Bodhitheblackdog

TrcikyChristopher said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yes, and we don't even know how many times he came close to being in that "black out" state and near overdose. eek

.

It's almost like an alcoholic who needs to drink more and more to get the same effect and feeling no pain, until the point of blacking-out.

.

Sad. sad

As I've stated before, and I really don't care at this point what records may or may not state or who doesn't believe it: Prince overdosed in LA around 2010/2011. His stomach was pumped at Cedars-Sinai. We almost lost him THEN. People in the camp knew about it. Trust me on this.

Prince had an issue with painkillers for years. Lord knows how long.

However, that still does NOT discount any underlying health issues he may have had - no matter the denial. There were other things going on that made his painkiller problem worse. It's easier for people to point to the painkillers because, theoretically, that IS what ultimately killed him. Technically.

[Edited 5/16/18 19:04pm]

[Edited 5/16/18 19:07pm]

Exactly WHAT underlying health issue?, don't be shy, it's just us here...are you taking us to the HIV dance perhaps?

Reply #489 posted 05/16/18 7:25pm

PennyPurple

TrcikyChristopher said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yes, and we don't even know how many times he came close to being in that "black out" state and near overdose. eek

.

It's almost like an alcoholic who needs to drink more and more to get the same effect and feeling no pain, until the point of blacking-out.

.

Sad. sad

As I've stated before, and I really don't care at this point what records may or may not state or who doesn't believe it: Prince overdosed in LA around 2010/2011. His stomach was pumped at Cedars-Sinai. We almost lost him THEN. People in the camp knew about it. Trust me on this.

Prince had an issue with painkillers for years. Lord knows how long.

However, that still does NOT discount any underlying health issues he may have had - no matter the denial. There were other things going on that made his painkiller problem worse. It's easier for people to point to the painkillers because, theoretically, that IS what ultimately killed him. Technically.

[Edited 5/16/18 19:04pm]

[Edited 5/16/18 19:07pm]

The only other thing that was going on, that made his pain pill problem worse was fentanyl in the pills.


There is no other underlying cause such as a disease, that any test or any person with knowledge has stated.


I think he was dabbling with pain pills long before 2010. sad And the associates can FO, I'm so sick of those lyin fake azz people.

Reply #490 posted 05/16/18 7:27pm

TrcikyChristopher

Bodhitheblackdog said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

As I've stated before, and I really don't care at this point what records may or may not state or who doesn't believe it: Prince overdosed in LA around 2010/2011. His stomach was pumped at Cedars-Sinai. We almost lost him THEN. People in the camp knew about it. Trust me on this.

Prince had an issue with painkillers for years. Lord knows how long.

However, that still does NOT discount any underlying health issues he may have had - no matter the denial. There were other things going on that made his painkiller problem worse. It's easier for people to point to the painkillers because, theoretically, that IS what ultimately killed him. Technically.

[Edited 5/16/18 19:04pm]

[Edited 5/16/18 19:07pm]

Exactly WHAT underlying health issue?, don't be shy, it's just us here...are you taking us to the HIV dance perhaps?

No

Reply #491 posted 05/16/18 7:29pm

TrcikyChristopher

PennyPurple said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

As I've stated before, and I really don't care at this point what records may or may not state or who doesn't believe it: Prince overdosed in LA around 2010/2011. His stomach was pumped at Cedars-Sinai. We almost lost him THEN. People in the camp knew about it. Trust me on this.

Prince had an issue with painkillers for years. Lord knows how long.

However, that still does NOT discount any underlying health issues he may have had - no matter the denial. There were other things going on that made his painkiller problem worse. It's easier for people to point to the painkillers because, theoretically, that IS what ultimately killed him. Technically.

[Edited 5/16/18 19:04pm]

[Edited 5/16/18 19:07pm]

The only other thing that was going on, that made his pain pill problem worse was fentanyl in the pills.


There is no other underlying cause such as a disease, that any test or any person with knowledge has stated.


I think he was dabbling with pain pills long before 2010. sad And the associates can FO, I'm so sick of those lyin fake azz people.

If we all live 28 years on, it'll be revealed. Unless someone else decides to speak up.

Reply #492 posted 05/16/18 7:31pm

Morgaine

TrcikyChristopher said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yes, and we don't even know how many times he came close to being in that "black out" state and near overdose. eek

.

It's almost like an alcoholic who needs to drink more and more to get the same effect and feeling no pain, until the point of blacking-out.

.

Sad. sad

As I've stated before, and I really don't care at this point what records may or may not state or who doesn't believe it: Prince overdosed in LA around 2010/2011. His stomach was pumped at Cedars-Sinai. We almost lost him THEN. People in the camp knew about it. Trust me on this.

Prince had an issue with painkillers for years. Lord knows how long.

However, that still does NOT discount any underlying health issues he may have had - no matter the denial. There were other things going on that made his painkiller problem worse. It's easier for people to point to the painkillers because, theoretically, that IS what ultimately killed him. Technically.

[Edited 5/16/18 19:04pm]

[Edited 5/16/18 19:07pm]

This doesn't surprise me at all. There are other stories of him having adverse reactions to taking medications and ending up in the hospital. I think it was kept very quiet and though some knew, I doubt many did - if too many had, he wouldn't have been able to continue it. It’s another great way to keep people away when they get too close, too.

The wear & tear of 30+ years - splits, dancing, jumping off pianos, etc. I don't think it's physically possible or at all realistic to assume he did not have tremendous pain way before 57.

I would not discount an underlying illness. There are various points from the late 1980s on when his appearance - mainly his face and posture/how he moved and held himself - where he doesn't look healthy such as during the WB legal war.

It would be nice if you would share your information, though – I think a lot of people here are tired of cryptic/anonymous info. Including me wink

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #493 posted 05/16/18 7:38pm

TrcikyChristopher

Morgaine said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

As I've stated before, and I really don't care at this point what records may or may not state or who doesn't believe it: Prince overdosed in LA around 2010/2011. His stomach was pumped at Cedars-Sinai. We almost lost him THEN. People in the camp knew about it. Trust me on this.

Prince had an issue with painkillers for years. Lord knows how long.

However, that still does NOT discount any underlying health issues he may have had - no matter the denial. There were other things going on that made his painkiller problem worse. It's easier for people to point to the painkillers because, theoretically, that IS what ultimately killed him. Technically.

[Edited 5/16/18 19:04pm]

[Edited 5/16/18 19:07pm]

This doesn't surprise me at all. There are other stories of him having adverse reactions to taking medications and ending up in the hospital. I think it was kept very quiet and though some knew, I doubt many did - if too many had, he wouldn't have been able to continue it. It’s another great way to keep people away when they get too close, too.

The wear & tear of 30+ years - splits, dancing, jumping off pianos, etc. I don't think it's physically possible or at all realistic to assume he did not have tremendous pain way before 57.

I would not discount an underlying illness. There are various points from the late 1980s on when his appearance - mainly his face and posture/how he moved and held himself - where he doesn't look healthy such as during the WB legal war.

It would be nice if you would share your information, though – I think a lot of people here are tired of cryptic/anonymous info. Including me wink

I've said plenty in previous posts without being very cryptic or specific.

It just bothers me to no end that this need to safeguard Prince's privacy at all costs (either by Prince himself or those in the know) not only inadvertently caused his passing, but continues the narrative that our dear Prince just happened to accidentally die from an overdose for no other reason than pain - and then allow pictures and video to be publically displayed - all in the name of said privacy and narrative.

Reply #494 posted 05/16/18 7:56pm

Bodhitheblackdog

TrcikyChristopher said:

Morgaine said:

This doesn't surprise me at all. There are other stories of him having adverse reactions to taking medications and ending up in the hospital. I think it was kept very quiet and though some knew, I doubt many did - if too many had, he wouldn't have been able to continue it. It’s another great way to keep people away when they get too close, too.

The wear & tear of 30+ years - splits, dancing, jumping off pianos, etc. I don't think it's physically possible or at all realistic to assume he did not have tremendous pain way before 57.

I would not discount an underlying illness. There are various points from the late 1980s on when his appearance - mainly his face and posture/how he moved and held himself - where he doesn't look healthy such as during the WB legal war.

It would be nice if you would share your information, though – I think a lot of people here are tired of cryptic/anonymous info. Including me wink

I've said plenty in previous posts without being very cryptic or specific.

It just bothers me to no end that this need to safeguard Prince's privacy at all costs (either by Prince himself or those in the know) not only inadvertently caused his passing, but continues the narrative that our dear Prince just happened to accidentally die from an overdose for no other reason than pain - and then allow pictures and video to be publically displayed - all in the name of said privacy and narrative.

If the narrative is inaccurate or offensive it's up to the family to speak out. I'm actually astounded that not one of them has spilled the beans...yet. The 'real story' must be quite a shocker...But, I'm sure if some entity came up with enough money, we would know it all.

Reply #495 posted 05/16/18 7:56pm

Morgaine

TrcikyChristopher said:

Morgaine said:

This doesn't surprise me at all. There are other stories of him having adverse reactions to taking medications and ending up in the hospital. I think it was kept very quiet and though some knew, I doubt many did - if too many had, he wouldn't have been able to continue it. It’s another great way to keep people away when they get too close, too.

The wear & tear of 30+ years - splits, dancing, jumping off pianos, etc. I don't think it's physically possible or at all realistic to assume he did not have tremendous pain way before 57.

I would not discount an underlying illness. There are various points from the late 1980s on when his appearance - mainly his face and posture/how he moved and held himself - where he doesn't look healthy such as during the WB legal war.

It would be nice if you would share your information, though – I think a lot of people here are tired of cryptic/anonymous info. Including me wink

I've said plenty in previous posts without being very cryptic or specific.

It just bothers me to no end that this need to safeguard Prince's privacy at all costs (either by Prince himself or those in the know) not only inadvertently caused his passing, but continues the narrative that our dear Prince just happened to accidentally die from an overdose for no other reason than pain - and then allow pictures and video to be publically displayed - all in the name of said privacy and narrative.

You've spoken about an underlying health issue? I remember reading your posts about the OD in LA in 2012, but not specifics about an illness.

The kind of love that takes over your body, mind, & soul
Reply #496 posted 05/16/18 8:00pm

TrcikyChristopher

Morgaine said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

I've said plenty in previous posts without being very cryptic or specific.

It just bothers me to no end that this need to safeguard Prince's privacy at all costs (either by Prince himself or those in the know) not only inadvertently caused his passing, but continues the narrative that our dear Prince just happened to accidentally die from an overdose for no other reason than pain - and then allow pictures and video to be publically displayed - all in the name of said privacy and narrative.

You've spoken about an underlying health issue? I remember reading your posts about the OD in LA in 2012, but not specifics about an illness.

Yes

Reply #497 posted 05/16/18 8:09pm

Strawberrylova123

TrcikyChristopher said:

 



Morgaine said:


 



TrcikyChristopher said:


 


I've said plenty in previous posts without being very cryptic or specific.


It just bothers me to no end that this need to safeguard Prince's privacy at all costs (either by Prince himself or those in the know) not only inadvertently caused his passing, but continues the narrative that our dear Prince just happened to accidentally die from an overdose for no other reason than pain - and then allow pictures and video to be publically displayed - all in the name of said privacy and narrative.



You've spoken about an underlying health issue? I remember reading your posts about the OD in LA in 2012, but not specifics about an illness. 



Yes


rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes
Reply #498 posted 05/16/18 8:13pm

TrcikyChristopher

Strawberrylova123 said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

Yes

rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

ok...

Reply #499 posted 05/16/18 8:18pm

Mumio

TrcikyChristopher said:

Yes

Evidence of one thing does not negate evidence of another....correct?

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
Reply #500 posted 05/16/18 8:24pm

TrcikyChristopher

Mumio said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

Yes

Evidence of one thing does not negate evidence of another....correct?

Correct.

Reply #501 posted 05/16/18 8:33pm

2004Fan

TrcikyChristopher said:

 



Mumio said:


 



TrcikyChristopher said:


Yes



 


Evidence of one thing does not negate evidence of another....correct?



Correct.



I agree with both of you.
I am here! Where R U?! Gotta broken heart again...
Reply #502 posted 05/16/18 8:44pm

80tomato

why not fill us in with what u know, Trciky?

[Edited 5/16/18 20:46pm]

Reply #503 posted 05/16/18 8:45pm

PeteSilas

good post but where is there any evidence he was taking pain pills during purple rain? Susan rogers and others close to him state he didn't take anything during that era.

Morgaine said:

After reading the investigation files, I believe he was in an ongoing state of withdrawal due to the varying ingredients in the street pills that were tested: some with only lidocaine, some with hydrocodone and lidocaine, some with different amounts of Fentanyl, etc.
For someone with constant pain in need of medication this is one of the worst things they can do. He should've had a chronic pain doctor & been on something long acting plus something for break through pain.
It is extremely sad to me, that his pain was treatable but he chose to do it alone, which I believe this had to do with his need to control everything.
As for Kirk, I believe he knew there were issues in the past but did not know about Prince's street meds. I believe he was doing his best to help him and I can't imagine the guilt and pain he feels from his death. I do not think Kirk is heartless, but I am well aware that people did not argue with Prince - it's quite obvious that this was a huge no-no and got many fired.

I believe he knew he was addicted. I believe it began as dependence, but in not allowing others - professionals who know more - to help & treat him, he didn't do himself any favors.
I also believe he began taking meds during the Purple Rain tour after he was injured from the tub falling.

I beleive he used it off and on for years, when it was necessary for him to perform. He was not God.

I believe after his son died, he started again, with the motivator being physical pain (mid 30s, 10+ years of jumping off speakers, etc) but opiates also make mental and emotional pain float away on a nice puffy cloud, which is one of the reasons they are so addicting

He was brilliant. A musical genius who was & always be a huge part of my life.
I do not care if he was addicted, dependent, or killed himself; many think addiction is slow suicide, anyway, and none of it will change my appreciation and love for the music he created.

I would also note there is something to be said for the masses (including myself) believing his image was his totality. I beleive that illusion, combined with his need to control his life and environment snowballed into, ultimately, his death.
Peace.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #504 posted 05/16/18 8:47pm

PeteSilas

i woulda kidnapped him homeboy. I wouldn't want to molest him but i'd get the fucker clean, i'd chain him to a redwood while he's going through withdrawals like a bad pitbull.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

And, this is what I've been saying all along; why didn't Dr. Schulenberg contact the family and tell them that Prince needs to get into treatment, ASAP?? Was he too afraid to tell Prince this?? I'm sure Dr. Schulenberg knows well-qualified addiction specialist in MN.

.

We will never know "why". sad

WHY? Because it's the LAW to protect patient privacy...duh.I'm not sure that spilling the beans re the health of an adult to 'family members' OR ANY OTHER SENTIENT BEING lines up with HIPPA Privacy protections....would you want your private medical information shared with a half-sibling, for example, with whom you had no contact and who had never been in your home? Would you want your struggles with addiction shared with your not-too-bright sister who had drug addiction issues of her own? I mean, where would such a violation end? Would it be OK to tell Rolling Stone or TMZ just so those entities could light a fire under Prince? Unless someone is specifically named as a health care representative...they are not entitled to ANY medical information about an individual....and that goes for a spouse. Get real.This sounds like the drival posted by some orgers to the effect that if they had been around, they would have kidnapped Prince and taken him, against his will, to a hospital. Hey, while you're at it...why not sexually molest him in the car on the way over? I mean, you're a fan, right???You can do no wrong.

[Edited 5/16/18 15:13pm]

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #505 posted 05/16/18 8:59pm

2004Fan

PeteSilas said:[quote]

i woulda kidnapped him homeboy.  I wouldn't want to molest him but i'd get the fucker clean, i'd chain him to a redwood while he's going through withdrawals like a bad pitbull.



Allright but what about the pain that P would still have? That would not go away... sad
BTW I would molest him... Just kidding... wink
I am here! Where R U?! Gotta broken heart again...
Reply #506 posted 05/16/18 9:00pm

TrcikyChristopher

80tomato said:

why not fill us in with what u know?

I've shared everything I am able to share without compromising my multiple sources. I'm only hoping that the charade ends soon. It's getting ridiculous at this point. 10 threads deep and 2 years in, and we're here discussing something that could easily be put to rest by a press release or interview. It's really that simple.

Instead, we're just unnecessarily tiptoeing around shit while arguing about half-assed "new" releases because they're too busy arguing among themselves.

It's a damned shame.

Reply #507 posted 05/16/18 9:17pm

PeteSilas

well, that's a tough one, he'd have to learn to live with it or i'd blow the whistle.

2004Fan said:

PeteSilas said:

i woulda kidnapped him homeboy. I wouldn't want to molest him but i'd get the fucker clean, i'd chain him to a redwood while he's going through withdrawals like a bad pitbull.

Allright but what about the pain that P would still have? That would not go away... sad BTW I would molest him... Just kidding... wink

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #508 posted 05/16/18 9:19pm

Bodhitheblackdog

PeteSilas said:

i woulda kidnapped him homeboy. I wouldn't want to molest him but i'd get the fucker clean, i'd chain him to a redwood while he's going through withdrawals like a bad pitbull.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

WHY? Because it's the LAW to protect patient privacy...duh.I'm not sure that spilling the beans re the health of an adult to 'family members' OR ANY OTHER SENTIENT BEING lines up with HIPPA Privacy protections....would you want your private medical information shared with a half-sibling, for example, with whom you had no contact and who had never been in your home? Would you want your struggles with addiction shared with your not-too-bright sister who had drug addiction issues of her own? I mean, where would such a violation end? Would it be OK to tell Rolling Stone or TMZ just so those entities could light a fire under Prince? Unless someone is specifically named as a health care representative...they are not entitled to ANY medical information about an individual....and that goes for a spouse. Get real.This sounds like the drival posted by some orgers to the effect that if they had been around, they would have kidnapped Prince and taken him, against his will, to a hospital. Hey, while you're at it...why not sexually molest him in the car on the way over? I mean, you're a fan, right???You can do no wrong.

[Edited 5/16/18 15:13pm]

OMG Pete, you are SOOOOOOOO romantic!

Reply #509 posted 05/16/18 9:21pm

PeteSilas

TrcikyChristopher said:

80tomato said:

why not fill us in with what u know?

I've shared everything I am able to share without compromising my multiple sources. I'm only hoping that the charade ends soon. It's getting ridiculous at this point. 10 threads deep and 2 years in, and we're here discussing something that could easily be put to rest by a press release or interview. It's really that simple.

Instead, we're just unnecessarily tiptoeing around shit while arguing about half-assed "new" releases because they're too busy arguing among themselves.

It's a damned shame.

Well, i do have hope that prince wasn't JUST a drug addict, I really do hope if he had to die, it was really something serious that he couldn't have avoided. Out of all the guys who were my heroes, there were a couple i couldn't see ever falling prey to drugs, Prince was one, Bruce Lee is another, both were done in by drugs along with the rest. Prince and Bruce were like supermen to me, that's a lot to expect out of anyone but they set that bar themselves. I do hope Prince had cancer or something and that it comes out soon.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #510 posted 05/16/18 9:24pm

TrcikyChristopher

PeteSilas said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

I've shared everything I am able to share without compromising my multiple sources. I'm only hoping that the charade ends soon. It's getting ridiculous at this point. 10 threads deep and 2 years in, and we're here discussing something that could easily be put to rest by a press release or interview. It's really that simple.

Instead, we're just unnecessarily tiptoeing around shit while arguing about half-assed "new" releases because they're too busy arguing among themselves.

It's a damned shame.

Well, i do have hope that prince wasn't JUST a drug addict, I really do hope if he had to die, it was really something serious that he couldn't have avoided. Out of all the guys who were my heroes, there were a couple i couldn't see ever falling prey to drugs, Prince was one, Bruce Lee is another, both were done in by drugs along with the rest. Prince and Bruce were like supermen to me, that's a lot to expect out of anyone but they set that bar themselves. I do hope Prince had cancer or something and that it comes out soon.

Totally could have been avoided or staved off.

Reply #511 posted 05/16/18 9:26pm

80tomato

Pete , people are living longer with cancer now that we have stem cells , and immunotherapy ...how would u feel if he did have cancer but refused treatment?

Reply #512 posted 05/16/18 9:35pm

PeteSilas

80tomato said:

Pete , people are living longer with cancer now that we have stem cells , and immunotherapy ...how would u feel if he did have cancer but refused treatment?

kidnap him and waterboard him until he changed his mind.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #513 posted 05/16/18 9:38pm

PeteSilas

what makes you so sure? did he have some condition like MS or something? If he had cancer, death is always a possiblility.

TrcikyChristopher said:

PeteSilas said:

Well, i do have hope that prince wasn't JUST a drug addict, I really do hope if he had to die, it was really something serious that he couldn't have avoided. Out of all the guys who were my heroes, there were a couple i couldn't see ever falling prey to drugs, Prince was one, Bruce Lee is another, both were done in by drugs along with the rest. Prince and Bruce were like supermen to me, that's a lot to expect out of anyone but they set that bar themselves. I do hope Prince had cancer or something and that it comes out soon.

Totally could have been avoided or staved off.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #514 posted 05/16/18 9:43pm

TrcikyChristopher

PeteSilas said:

what makes you so sure? did he have some condition like MS or something? If he had cancer, death is always a possiblility.

TrcikyChristopher said:

Totally could have been avoided or staved off.

Death from any illness is always a possibility but can easily turn into just a probability under the right circumstances and proper influences.

Reply #515 posted 05/16/18 9:43pm

Bodhitheblackdog

PeteSilas said:

what makes you so sure? did he have some condition like MS or something? If he had cancer, death is always a possiblility.

TrcikyChristopher said:

Totally could have been avoided or staved off.

Boy, here we go again. It almost seems it's a requirement of Prince fandom that one adopts certain beliefs/behaviors like paranoia, secrecy, smug know-it-all-ness, being in the 'inner circle', control ('I know what really happened and you don't naa naa naa.') manipulation ('I know what really happened...' etc.)...it's exhausting...

Reply #516 posted 05/16/18 9:45pm

Bodhitheblackdog

TrcikyChristopher said:

PeteSilas said:

what makes you so sure? did he have some condition like MS or something? If he had cancer, death is always a possiblility.

Death from any illness is always a possibility but can easily turn into just a probability under the right circumstances and proper influences.

Wowie-Zowie...JUST LIKE LIFE!!!

Reply #517 posted 05/16/18 9:45pm

PeteSilas

TrcikyChristopher said:

PeteSilas said:

what makes you so sure? did he have some condition like MS or something? If he had cancer, death is always a possiblility.

Death from any illness is always a possibility but can easily turn into just a probability under the right circumstances and proper influences.

are you the same person as Funksterr?

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #518 posted 05/16/18 9:51pm

TrcikyChristopher

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PeteSilas said:

what makes you so sure? did he have some condition like MS or something? If he had cancer, death is always a possiblility.

Boy, here we go again. It almost seems it's a requirement of Prince fandom that one adopts certain beliefs/behaviors like paranoia, secrecy, smug know-it-all-ness, being in the 'inner circle', control ('I know what really happened and you don't naa naa naa.') manipulation ('I know what really happened...' etc.)...it's exhausting...

I'm not in any inner circle. I'm not manipulating anyone nor am I being smug or paranoid. I'm stating what's been told to ME by multiple sources within the confines of what I am allowed to discuss. Believe what you want or just wait 28 fucking years because no one in the inner circle who knows what actually happened will open their mouths publically and would rather keep everyone guessing under the guise of "Prince's privacy" but most likely because, as someone alluded to earlier, money talks.

[Edited 5/16/18 21:52pm]

Reply #519 posted 05/16/18 9:51pm

TrcikyChristopher

PeteSilas said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

Death from any illness is always a possibility but can easily turn into just a probability under the right circumstances and proper influences.

are you the same person as Funksterr?

No. I don't even know who that is.

Reply #520 posted 05/16/18 9:53pm

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame

Aye, Aye, Aye.


All this grasping at air only reinforces the speculation.

pimp2

Reply #521 posted 05/16/18 10:09pm

PeteSilas

TrcikyChristopher said:

PeteSilas said:

are you the same person as Funksterr?

No. I don't even know who that is.

well, you're saying the same things he did, i hope it all comes out someday if there is anything to come out. to be honest, I never did feel like the drugs were the only factor, it's not just simple denial with me, it's just that Prince was always Prince, meaning, very demanding, exacting, meticulous, even Meron Bekure in her FB post said how demanding prince was and how it created "a whole new Meron" which is something people have said going back to the time. Then we have the performances which were about as good as humanly possible, none of the fucked up, slopply, lazy shit we see out of most of our drugged out rock stars, name a star who has od'd and more than likely there have been occasion(s) where they are onstage fucking up, either because they are high or because of the effect of the drugs (like whitneys ruined voice) prince showed none, i repeat, none of that, that is the reason people have a hard time reconciling this shit.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #522 posted 05/16/18 10:21pm

TrcikyChristopher

PeteSilas said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

No. I don't even know who that is.

well, you're saying the same things he did, i hope it all comes out someday if there is anything to come out. to be honest, I never did feel like the drugs were the only factor, it's not just simple denial with me, it's just that Prince was always Prince, meaning, very demanding, exacting, meticulous, even Meron Bekure in her FB post said how demanding prince was and how it created "a whole new Meron" which is something people have said going back to the time. Then we have the performances which were about as good as humanly possible, none of the fucked up, slopply, lazy shit we see out of most of our drugged out rock stars, name a star who has od'd and more than likely there have been occasion(s) where they are onstage fucking up, either because they are high or because of the effect of the drugs (like whitneys ruined voice) prince showed none, i repeat, none of that, that is the reason people have a hard time reconciling this shit.

That's the thing. He was never "drugged up" (at least publicly), and everything he was doing was his attempt to deal with something in a restricted way. That's the main reason he never got the actual hip replacement(s). As I stated before, all it really takes is a simple statement. A simple interview. None of this "I knew 2 years before he passed" (which, coincidentally was the year of the release of a very personal album) but not elaborating.

The fact of the matter is that Prince hid a LOT of his life away from even some of the people closest to him and that led us here because I'm pretty sure that not even Kirk knew the extent of what was going on. He was only trying to help the best way he knew how, as fucked up his methods may or may not have been.

In my opinion, the handful of people in the circle who say they know what happened are just playing footsies with each other (and maybe even us) to line their pockets in the meantime.

Reply #523 posted 05/16/18 10:21pm

Lovejunky

PeteSilas said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

No. I don't even know who that is.

well, you're saying the same things he did, i hope it all comes out someday if there is anything to come out. to be honest, I never did feel like the drugs were the only factor, it's not just simple denial with me, it's just that Prince was always Prince, meaning, very demanding, exacting, meticulous, even Meron Bekure in her FB post said how demanding prince was and how it created "a whole new Meron" which is something people have said going back to the time. Then we have the performances which were about as good as humanly possible, none of the fucked up, slopply, lazy shit we see out of most of our drugged out rock stars, name a star who has od'd and more than likely there have been occasion(s) where they are onstage fucking up, either because they are high or because of the effect of the drugs (like whitneys ruined voice) prince showed none, i repeat, none of that, that is the reason people have a hard time reconciling this shit.

The most Profound words that Ive read from you Pete

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
Reply #524 posted 05/16/18 11:00pm

peggyon

I have been meaning to mention this for awhile. I am an RN and have worked extensively with people undergoing hip and knee replacements, usually related to osteoarthritis. Prince probably had traumatic arthritis from years of extreme dancing and jumping etc. I wanted to reassure you that the vast majority of folks feel great after a somewhat painful or uncomfortable recovery of 6-8 weeks. If his other hip hurt alot, I would guess he would have had it replaced as well. The last picture of him walking into the appt with Dr Shulenberg with Kurt showed a strong, even gait with no limping and no cane.

I have been an RN for 30+ years, the other half of which was in the ICU where one sees many types of severe illnesses. Sometimes, one gets a sense of underlying issues.I do not feel that Prince only had an addiction. Addicts tend to be thin, but he was wasting fairly quickly. This is an just an intuition I am having difficulty shaking. I know his labs were essentially normal but something tells me there is more to this story. I know this may upset some folks. It is not my intention. IMHO, it is not coincidence that this thread is so long. There is a need for closure.

Reply #525 posted 05/16/18 11:39pm

Mumio

TrcikyChristopher said:

I'm not in any inner circle. I'm not manipulating anyone nor am I being smug or paranoid. I'm stating what's been told to ME by multiple sources within the confines of what I am allowed to discuss. Believe what you want or just wait 28 fucking years because no one in the inner circle who knows what actually happened will open their mouths publically and would rather keep everyone guessing under the guise of "Prince's privacy" but most likely because, as someone alluded to earlier, money talks.

[Edited 5/16/18 21:52pm]

Ignore that one. The jealousy is strong nod

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
Reply #526 posted 05/17/18 12:10am

peggyon

I love your directness and humor Pete!

Reply #527 posted 05/17/18 12:15am

PeteSilas

peggyon said:

I love your directness and humor Pete!

gee thanks.
Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
Reply #528 posted 05/17/18 1:57am

MMJas

disch said:

I couldn't say -- when someone develops a dependence or addiction, they need to take the drugs (and more of them) to stave off debilitating withdrawal symptoms (things like vomiting, anxiety etc -- the kind of stuff he was complaining of Dr S and what Dr S prescribed drugs on 4/20 to combat). Dependence/addiction itself introduces another set of physical issues in addition to possible underlying pain issues.

-

What still is confusing to me is why if the physical pain was incapacitating, he didn't address it with a doctor (Dr S or someone else). Wouldn't this have been the very first thing he told Dr S when he first met with him?

MMJas said:

I hear what you're saying. However, the fact the he was taking high dosages shows that he was becoming tolerant and feeling the pain still, right?

[Edited 5/16/18 13:46pm]

So why take a high dosage to become unconscious? It seems it was natural for him to do that. Sleep issues? He never slept much, could he also suffer from extreme insomnia in his latter years? So why not tell the doctor also?

Didn't Kirk contact some doctor regarding Prince's hip pain? I seem to remember that...

[Edited 5/17/18 2:39am]

Reply #529 posted 05/17/18 1:58am

MMJas

cloveringold85 said:

MMJas said:

Which means he was in pain, right? And he was used to blacking out whilst taking pain medication. Isn't that of real concern? It probably means the pain was heavy and he had to black out to stop feeling it. It's not like you take a painkiller for a headache and then continue working or doing whatever you were doing. He regarded it as normal to black out. I would be really scared of suffocating in vomit, for instance....

.

Yes, and we don't even know how many times he came close to being in that "black out" state and near overdose. eek

.

It's almost like an alcoholic who needs to drink more and more to get the same effect and feeling no pain, until the point of blacking-out.

.

Sad. sad

Many times, if you consider Kirk's comment at the hospital "we can't keep doing this". What is "this"? Taking him to the hospital unconscious? Trying to wake him up after he dozed off? Hiding his problem? What?

Reply #530 posted 05/17/18 2:02am

MMJas

Bodhitheblackdog said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

And, this is what I've been saying all along; why didn't Dr. Schulenberg contact the family and tell them that Prince needs to get into treatment, ASAP?? Was he too afraid to tell Prince this?? I'm sure Dr. Schulenberg knows well-qualified addiction specialist in MN.

.

We will never know "why". sad

WHY? Because it's the LAW to protect patient privacy...duh.I'm not sure that spilling the beans re the health of an adult to 'family members' OR ANY OTHER SENTIENT BEING lines up with HIPPA Privacy protections....would you want your private medical information shared with a half-sibling, for example, with whom you had no contact and who had never been in your home? Would you want your struggles with addiction shared with your not-too-bright sister who had drug addiction issues of her own? I mean, where would such a violation end? Would it be OK to tell Rolling Stone or TMZ just so those entities could light a fire under Prince? Unless someone is specifically named as a health care representative...they are not entitled to ANY medical information about an individual....and that goes for a spouse. Get real.This sounds like the drival posted by some orgers to the effect that if they had been around, they would have kidnapped Prince and taken him, against his will, to a hospital. Hey, while you're at it...why not sexually molest him in the car on the way over? I mean, you're a fan, right???You can do no wrong.

[Edited 5/16/18 15:13pm]

Exactly. Even more so when that person is Prince.,

Reply #531 posted 05/17/18 2:07am

MMJas

Morgaine said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I still think there was a vibe of 'let's protect the hometown hero' about this whole"investigation" in that 'accident' sounds so much more innocent and less violent that 'suicide.' It's also puzzling to me that given the expertise of the ME re Fent she still saw the MASSIVE, almost without precendant levels of Fent in his system as accidental rather than the result of a purposeful act.

I think in a misguided spasm of caring they were trying to protect his reputation.

I agree but would also add that I believe there are details they know that they are not releasing that led them to the idea if accidental OD from the beginning.

What could that possibly be?

Reply #532 posted 05/17/18 2:20am

MMJas

Bodhitheblackdog said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

I've said plenty in previous posts without being very cryptic or specific.

It just bothers me to no end that this need to safeguard Prince's privacy at all costs (either by Prince himself or those in the know) not only inadvertently caused his passing, but continues the narrative that our dear Prince just happened to accidentally die from an overdose for no other reason than pain - and then allow pictures and video to be publically displayed - all in the name of said privacy and narrative.

If the narrative is inaccurate or offensive it's up to the family to speak out. I'm actually astounded that not one of them has spilled the beans...yet. The 'real story' must be quite a shocker...But, I'm sure if some entity came up with enough money, we would know it all.

Tyka is writing a book. And if she does decide to include unknown info, it will sell like hot cakes. And she knows it. Perhaps that is why she is not saying much.

Reply #533 posted 05/17/18 2:26am

MMJas

TrcikyChristopher said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Boy, here we go again. It almost seems it's a requirement of Prince fandom that one adopts certain beliefs/behaviors like paranoia, secrecy, smug know-it-all-ness, being in the 'inner circle', control ('I know what really happened and you don't naa naa naa.') manipulation ('I know what really happened...' etc.)...it's exhausting...

I'm not in any inner circle. I'm not manipulating anyone nor am I being smug or paranoid. I'm stating what's been told to ME by multiple sources within the confines of what I am allowed to discuss. Believe what you want or just wait 28 fucking years because no one in the inner circle who knows what actually happened will open their mouths publically and would rather keep everyone guessing under the guise of "Prince's privacy" but most likely because, as someone alluded to earlier, money talks.

[Edited 5/16/18 21:52pm]

Is that why certain investigation documents were not released? To protect his privacy due to stuff mentioned in them?

So you are saying people who knowexactly what happened are keeping quiet about it because they were paid to keep quiet? But before you said:
"I'm only hoping that the charade ends soon. It's getting ridiculous at this point. 10 threads deep and 2 years in, and we're here discussing something that could easily be put to rest by a press release or interview. It's really that simple." So do you expect someone to talk or not?

Reply #534 posted 05/17/18 2:30am

PURPLEIZED3121

TrcikyChristopher said:

PeteSilas said:

well, you're saying the same things he did, i hope it all comes out someday if there is anything to come out. to be honest, I never did feel like the drugs were the only factor, it's not just simple denial with me, it's just that Prince was always Prince, meaning, very demanding, exacting, meticulous, even Meron Bekure in her FB post said how demanding prince was and how it created "a whole new Meron" which is something people have said going back to the time. Then we have the performances which were about as good as humanly possible, none of the fucked up, slopply, lazy shit we see out of most of our drugged out rock stars, name a star who has od'd and more than likely there have been occasion(s) where they are onstage fucking up, either because they are high or because of the effect of the drugs (like whitneys ruined voice) prince showed none, i repeat, none of that, that is the reason people have a hard time reconciling this shit.

That's the thing. He was never "drugged up" (at least publicly), and everything he was doing was his attempt to deal with something in a restricted way. That's the main reason he never got the actual hip replacement(s). As I stated before, all it really takes is a simple statement. A simple interview. None of this "I knew 2 years before he passed" (which, coincidentally was the year of the release of a very personal album) but not elaborating.

The fact of the matter is that Prince hid a LOT of his life away from even some of the people closest to him and that led us here because I'm pretty sure that not even Kirk knew the extent of what was going on. He was only trying to help the best way he knew how, as fucked up his methods may or may not have been.

In my opinion, the handful of people in the circle who say they know what happened are just playing footsies with each other (and maybe even us) to line their pockets in the meantime.

This is a heartbreaking thread. Pete, I am on the same page on you in terms of praying that our heroes never went down like 'that'.

Trciky - dude I hope you aren't just playing with our emotions here. Surely if there was anything medical it would have come out in the Carver county reports? I still maintain the balloons released at the end of each 3EG gig by him [Black, White & Purple] were hugely symbolic [he did everything with a hidden meaning]. I saw him at Leeds UK on that tour , front row & he looked awful, in pain & angry..truly heartbreaking to see.

Trciky - your input is intriguing BUT many of us regained some level of closure in terms of cause of death ie he messed up on self medicating & trying to control his own pain. If you have anything definitive isn't best you just say it & be done?

Reply #535 posted 05/17/18 2:33am

PURPLEIZED3121

Bodhitheblackdog said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

I've said plenty in previous posts without being very cryptic or specific.

It just bothers me to no end that this need to safeguard Prince's privacy at all costs (either by Prince himself or those in the know) not only inadvertently caused his passing, but continues the narrative that our dear Prince just happened to accidentally die from an overdose for no other reason than pain - and then allow pictures and video to be publically displayed - all in the name of said privacy and narrative.

If the narrative is inaccurate or offensive it's up to the family to speak out. I'm actually astounded that not one of them has spilled the beans...yet. The 'real story' must be quite a shocker...But, I'm sure if some entity came up with enough money, we would know it all.

I am atually dreading Tykas book!

Reply #536 posted 05/17/18 4:24am

MMJas

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

If the narrative is inaccurate or offensive it's up to the family to speak out. I'm actually astounded that not one of them has spilled the beans...yet. The 'real story' must be quite a shocker...But, I'm sure if some entity came up with enough money, we would know it all.

I am atually dreading Tykas book!

So am I.

Reply #537 posted 05/17/18 4:34am

1Sasha

I know Laura has apparently been banned, but she had been a proponent of a chronic/terminal underlying condition, and I agreed with her. Many people chastised her severely when she said it, but this man had been planning his demise for over a year. Addicts don't do that, as a rule, If the family would release the autopsy report, our speculation would end. JMO

Reply #538 posted 05/17/18 4:51am

benni

TrcikyChristopher said:

80tomato said:

why not fill us in with what u know?

I've shared everything I am able to share without compromising my multiple sources. I'm only hoping that the charade ends soon. It's getting ridiculous at this point. 10 threads deep and 2 years in, and we're here discussing something that could easily be put to rest by a press release or interview. It's really that simple.

Instead, we're just unnecessarily tiptoeing around shit while arguing about half-assed "new" releases because they're too busy arguing among themselves.

It's a damned shame.


Thank you, TrcikyChristopher. You sharing confirms what I was told, too. And I agree, those that know need to come out with the whole story. I think some were just "prepared" and weren't given a lot of details, if any, but others were given the whole story. They could put the speculation to rest.


Reply #539 posted 05/17/18 5:13am

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2

benni said:

 



TrcikyChristopher said:


 



80tomato said:


why not fill us in with what u know?



I've shared everything I am able to share without compromising my multiple sources. I'm only hoping that the charade ends soon. It's getting ridiculous at this point. 10 threads deep and 2 years in, and we're here discussing something that could easily be put to rest by a press release or interview. It's really that simple.


Instead, we're just unnecessarily tiptoeing around shit while arguing about half-assed "new" releases because they're too busy arguing among themselves.


It's a damned shame.




Thank you, TrcikyChristopher.  You sharing confirms what I was told, too.  And I agree, those that know need to come out with the whole story.  I think some were just "prepared" and weren't given a lot of details, if any, but others were given the whole story.  They could put the speculation to rest.







Well apparently there are 2 people who "know" right here. Why can't either of you be the person who stands up and clears prince's name. Why must either of you wait for a relative or insider to "do the right thing". If both of you know what happened and choose to skate around the truth here, than aren't both of you just like every other person who could "clear this up with one statement". Who cares how you learned the information, if negative consequences will arise for you from "telling the truth" isn't that the least you could do for prince, to let the world know he wasn't just another sex drug and rock and roll stereotype drug dead mega star...the negativity you throw at the people who know and don't tell also includes yourselves
Reply #540 posted 05/17/18 5:34am

stlmuziqlvr

Thank you both for stating this fact. I've thought it all along. nod

TrcikyChristopher said:

Mumio said:

Evidence of one thing does not negate evidence of another....correct?

Correct.

Reply #541 posted 05/17/18 5:38am

80tomato

benni said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

I've shared everything I am able to share without compromising my multiple sources. I'm only hoping that the charade ends soon. It's getting ridiculous at this point. 10 threads deep and 2 years in, and we're here discussing something that could easily be put to rest by a press release or interview. It's really that simple.

Instead, we're just unnecessarily tiptoeing around shit while arguing about half-assed "new" releases because they're too busy arguing among themselves.

It's a damned shame.


Thank you, TrcikyChristopher. You sharing confirms what I was told, too. And I agree, those that know need to come out with the whole story. I think some were just "prepared" and weren't given a lot of details, if any, but others were given the whole story. They could put the speculation to rest.


Benni . I have always enjoyed and respected your posts .It seems you are saying there was an underlying illness/problem and yet are opposed to the possibility of suicide

Reply #542 posted 05/17/18 5:40am

stlmuziqlvr

Purpleized3121, did he look this way during the entire concert or just when he was releasing the balloons? I can see why that would be heartbreaking for you.

Also, thank you, I've only seen some of the 3EG concerts on YT; I did not notice that he included black balloons with the purple and white. Agree, he did everything for a reason.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

That's the thing. He was never "drugged up" (at least publicly), and everything he was doing was his attempt to deal with something in a restricted way. That's the main reason he never got the actual hip replacement(s). As I stated before, all it really takes is a simple statement. A simple interview. None of this "I knew 2 years before he passed" (which, coincidentally was the year of the release of a very personal album) but not elaborating.

The fact of the matter is that Prince hid a LOT of his life away from even some of the people closest to him and that led us here because I'm pretty sure that not even Kirk knew the extent of what was going on. He was only trying to help the best way he knew how, as fucked up his methods may or may not have been.

In my opinion, the handful of people in the circle who say they know what happened are just playing footsies with each other (and maybe even us) to line their pockets in the meantime.

This is a heartbreaking thread. Pete, I am on the same page on you in terms of praying that our heroes never went down like 'that'.

Trciky - dude I hope you aren't just playing with our emotions here. Surely if there was anything medical it would have come out in the Carver county reports? I still maintain the balloons released at the end of each 3EG gig by him [Black, White & Purple] were hugely symbolic [he did everything with a hidden meaning]. I saw him at Leeds UK on that tour , front row & he looked awful, in pain & angry..truly heartbreaking to see.

Trciky - your input is intriguing BUT many of us regained some level of closure in terms of cause of death ie he messed up on self medicating & trying to control his own pain. If you have anything definitive isn't best you just say it & be done?

Reply #543 posted 05/17/18 6:06am

MMJas

benni said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

I've shared everything I am able to share without compromising my multiple sources. I'm only hoping that the charade ends soon. It's getting ridiculous at this point. 10 threads deep and 2 years in, and we're here discussing something that could easily be put to rest by a press release or interview. It's really that simple.

Instead, we're just unnecessarily tiptoeing around shit while arguing about half-assed "new" releases because they're too busy arguing among themselves.

It's a damned shame.


Thank you, TrcikyChristopher. You sharing confirms what I was told, too. And I agree, those that know need to come out with the whole story. I think some were just "prepared" and weren't given a lot of details, if any, but others were given the whole story. They could put the speculation to rest.


What exactly were you told, Benni, and by whom?

Reply #544 posted 05/17/18 6:14am

80tomato

stlmuziqlvr said:

Purpleized3121, did he look this way during the entire concert or just when he was releasing the balloons? I can see why that would be heartbreaking for you.

Also, thank you, I've only seen some of the 3EG concerts on YT; I did not notice that he included black balloons with the purple and white. Agree, he did everything for a reason.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

This is a heartbreaking thread. Pete, I am on the same page on you in terms of praying that our heroes never went down like 'that'.

Trciky - dude I hope you aren't just playing with our emotions here. Surely if there was anything medical it would have come out in the Carver county reports? I still maintain the balloons released at the end of each 3EG gig by him [Black, White & Purple] were hugely symbolic [he did everything with a hidden meaning]. I saw him at Leeds UK on that tour , front row & he looked awful, in pain & angry..truly heartbreaking to see.

Trciky - your input is intriguing BUT many of us regained some level of closure in terms of cause of death ie he messed up on self medicating & trying to control his own pain. If you have anything definitive isn't best you just say it & be done?

I just read the reviews on the org for the Leeds concert .It seems there were a few people who thought P was "off" that night

Reply #545 posted 05/17/18 6:15am

benni

MMJas said:

benni said:


Thank you, TrcikyChristopher. You sharing confirms what I was told, too. And I agree, those that know need to come out with the whole story. I think some were just "prepared" and weren't given a lot of details, if any, but others were given the whole story. They could put the speculation to rest.


What exactly were you told, Benni, and by whom?

Exactly what I said on pages 13 and 14 of this thread. Just that a friend was prepared. The person that told me was a friend of Prince's, a fan that Prince took an interest in and befriended. They aren't known and I won't share their name because they aren't known. I do know this person was a friend of Prince's. I didn't ask for any details, and even if I would have, I don't think this person would have shared them with me. I was just told that it didn't come as a surprise because he had been preparing those closest to him, that there was something more going on. That's all I was told, all I know.

[Edited 5/17/18 6:25am]

Reply #546 posted 05/17/18 6:16am

PennyPurple

1Sasha said:

I know Laura has apparently been banned, but she had been a proponent of a chronic/terminal underlying condition, and I agreed with her. Many people chastised her severely when she said it, but this man had been planning his demise for over a year. Addicts don't do that, as a rule, If the family would release the autopsy report, our speculation would end. JMO

Well, that's not what Laura is saying now. She has back tracked quite a bit since the documents were released.

Reply #547 posted 05/17/18 6:20am

1Sasha

PennyPurple said:

1Sasha said:

I know Laura has apparently been banned, but she had been a proponent of a chronic/terminal underlying condition, and I agreed with her. Many people chastised her severely when she said it, but this man had been planning his demise for over a year. Addicts don't do that, as a rule, If the family would release the autopsy report, our speculation would end. JMO

Well, that's not what Laura is saying now. She has back tracked quite a bit since the documents were released.

Really? Well, I am still sticking with it. I may be wrong, and I'll admit it if something comes out that says I am.

Reply #548 posted 05/17/18 6:21am

benni

80tomato said:

benni said:


Thank you, TrcikyChristopher. You sharing confirms what I was told, too. And I agree, those that know need to come out with the whole story. I think some were just "prepared" and weren't given a lot of details, if any, but others were given the whole story. They could put the speculation to rest.


Benni . I have always enjoyed and respected your posts .It seems you are saying there was an underlying illness/problem and yet are opposed to the possibility of suicide

80tomato, thank you. I am opposed to the idea of suicide because it really does go against everything we know about Prince. Prince was deeply spiritual, deeply religious, and suicide is a form of murder, self-murder. Even with an illness, I cannot see Prince going against his beliefs like that. I know we can get desparate when we are hurting, when we have an illness, but Prince is not someone who would have succombed to those dark thoughts. He fought his entire life to get to where he was. He was a fighter in that regard. I cannot even fathom the idea that Prince would stop fighting, much less go against one of his most basic religious / spiritual ideas of respecting all life, loving himself. And the idea of loving yourself is spread throughout the Bible. For Prince to commit suicide, he would have to give up on God, give up on his beliefs. And I cannot see Prince ever doing that.

Reply #549 posted 05/17/18 6:22am

PennyPurple

TrcikyChristopher said:

80tomato said:

why not fill us in with what u know?

I've shared everything I am able to share without compromising my multiple sources. I'm only hoping that the charade ends soon. It's getting ridiculous at this point. 10 threads deep and 2 years in, and we're here discussing something that could easily be put to rest by a press release or interview. It's really that simple.

Instead, we're just unnecessarily tiptoeing around shit while arguing about half-assed "new" releases because they're too busy arguing among themselves.

It's a damned shame.

Just stop. Why come on here and say anything, if you are not willing to tell us what you know?


If you have multiple sources, what makes you think by you telling us what he had, that they would even know who you are on this forum?


I could care less who told you what, just spit out what he had. It's pretty simple to write a sentence. If you can't do that then just stop toying with us.

Reply #550 posted 05/17/18 6:28am

MMJas

benni said:

MMJas said:

What exactly were you told, Benni, and by whom?

Exactly what I said on pages 13 and 14 of this thread. Just that a friend was prepared. The person that told me was a friend of Prince's, a fan that Prince took an interest in and befriended. They aren't known and I won't share their name because they aren't known. I do know this person was a friend of Prince's. I didn't ask for any details, and even if I would have, I don't think this person would have shared them with me. I was just told that it didn't come as a surprise because he had been preparing those closest to him, that there was something more going on. That's all I was told, all I know.

[Edited 5/17/18 6:25am]

Fair enough. So you were not told what he had, only that there was something more going on. This would mean that the painkiller addiction was long known, an open secret known by many, and that besides that, there was something else?

[Edited 5/17/18 6:28am]

Reply #551 posted 05/17/18 6:30am

80tomato

benni said:

80tomato said:

Benni . I have always enjoyed and respected your posts .It seems you are saying there was an underlying illness/problem and yet are opposed to the possibility of suicide

80tomato, thank you. I am opposed to the idea of suicide because it really does go against everything we know about Prince. Prince was deeply spiritual, deeply religious, and suicide is a form of murder, self-murder. Even with an illness, I cannot see Prince going against his beliefs like that. I know we can get desparate when we are hurting, when we have an illness, but Prince is not someone who would have succombed to those dark thoughts. He fought his entire life to get to where he was. He was a fighter in that regard. I cannot even fathom the idea that Prince would stop fighting, much less go against one of his most basic religious / spiritual ideas of respecting all life, loving himself. And the idea of loving yourself is spread throughout the Bible. For Prince to commit suicide, he would have to give up on God, give up on his beliefs. And I cannot see Prince ever doing that.

and yet we also know he always needed to be in control of things...could he have justified the suicide by doing it accidentally I wonder

Reply #552 posted 05/17/18 6:33am

Curt

benni said:

80tomato said:

Benni . I have always enjoyed and respected your posts .It seems you are saying there was an underlying illness/problem and yet are opposed to the possibility of suicide

80tomato, thank you. I am opposed to the idea of suicide because it really does go against everything we know about Prince. Prince was deeply spiritual, deeply religious, and suicide is a form of murder, self-murder. Even with an illness, I cannot see Prince going against his beliefs like that. I know we can get desparate when we are hurting, when we have an illness, but Prince is not someone who would have succombed to those dark thoughts. He fought his entire life to get to where he was. He was a fighter in that regard. I cannot even fathom the idea that Prince would stop fighting, much less go against one of his most basic religious / spiritual ideas of respecting all life, loving himself. And the idea of loving yourself is spread throughout the Bible. For Prince to commit suicide, he would have to give up on God, give up on his beliefs. And I cannot see Prince ever doing that.

I had a very close friend of mine commit suicide whom as very spiritual, studied the bible quite extensively and had a bible next to him when he took his own life. I would totally agree with you and would never expect someone who was this smart, and this well read on religion to do such a thing to themselves. I could not ever see my friend doing something like this, and out of the blue, he did.

Sooooo, I'm not saying at all this is what P did, I'm just saying, the perception that spiritual people would never do this is flawed and I know from first hand experience.

Reply #553 posted 05/17/18 6:34am

benni

MMJas said:

benni said:

Exactly what I said on pages 13 and 14 of this thread. Just that a friend was prepared. The person that told me was a friend of Prince's, a fan that Prince took an interest in and befriended. They aren't known and I won't share their name because they aren't known. I do know this person was a friend of Prince's. I didn't ask for any details, and even if I would have, I don't think this person would have shared them with me. I was just told that it didn't come as a surprise because he had been preparing those closest to him, that there was something more going on. That's all I was told, all I know.

[Edited 5/17/18 6:25am]

Fair enough. So you were not told what he had, only that there was something more going on. This would mean that the painkiller addiction was long known, an open secret known by many, and that besides that, there was something else?

[Edited 5/17/18 6:28am]


That's how I took what was said, yes. They didn't tell me what the "something more going on" was, and I didn't ask. At that time, I think everyone (including me) was still in shock and denial, but I knew this person was "inside" and just wanted to make sure they were doing okay. They were still in shock, hadn't expected anything this soon, but stated that he had been preparing them, that something else was going on with him besides what had been released at that time, and actually ended up comforting me. This person was "ready" even though it still hurt losing him.

Reply #554 posted 05/17/18 6:36am

benni

80tomato said:

benni said:

80tomato, thank you. I am opposed to the idea of suicide because it really does go against everything we know about Prince. Prince was deeply spiritual, deeply religious, and suicide is a form of murder, self-murder. Even with an illness, I cannot see Prince going against his beliefs like that. I know we can get desparate when we are hurting, when we have an illness, but Prince is not someone who would have succombed to those dark thoughts. He fought his entire life to get to where he was. He was a fighter in that regard. I cannot even fathom the idea that Prince would stop fighting, much less go against one of his most basic religious / spiritual ideas of respecting all life, loving himself. And the idea of loving yourself is spread throughout the Bible. For Prince to commit suicide, he would have to give up on God, give up on his beliefs. And I cannot see Prince ever doing that.

and yet we also know he always needed to be in control of things...could he have justified the suicide by doing it accidentally I wonder


True, he did need to be in control. But speaking as someone who has worked in mental health, dealt with suicidal people, there are generally "tells" that give away suicidal ideation or contemplation. I never saw any evidence of that with Prince.

Reply #555 posted 05/17/18 6:38am

benni

Curt said:

benni said:

80tomato, thank you. I am opposed to the idea of suicide because it really does go against everything we know about Prince. Prince was deeply spiritual, deeply religious, and suicide is a form of murder, self-murder. Even with an illness, I cannot see Prince going against his beliefs like that. I know we can get desparate when we are hurting, when we have an illness, but Prince is not someone who would have succombed to those dark thoughts. He fought his entire life to get to where he was. He was a fighter in that regard. I cannot even fathom the idea that Prince would stop fighting, much less go against one of his most basic religious / spiritual ideas of respecting all life, loving himself. And the idea of loving yourself is spread throughout the Bible. For Prince to commit suicide, he would have to give up on God, give up on his beliefs. And I cannot see Prince ever doing that.

I had a very close friend of mine commit suicide whom as very spiritual, studied the bible quite extensively and had a bible next to him when he took his own life. I would totally agree with you and would never expect someone who was this smart, and this well read on religion to do such a thing to themselves. I could not ever see my friend doing something like this, and out of the blue, he did.

Sooooo, I'm not saying at all this is what P did, I'm just saying, the perception that spiritual people would never do this is flawed and I know from first hand experience.


Curt, that's very true. However, there are usually "tells" and I never saw any of them with Prince. Of course, I wasn't close enough to him to really determine whether those tells were evident in personal relationships, but even publically, I think we would have seen something that would have indicated that he was suicidal or having suicidal ideations. It just doesn't fit with the evidence.

Reply #556 posted 05/17/18 6:47am

benni

Curt said:

benni said:

80tomato, thank you. I am opposed to the idea of suicide because it really does go against everything we know about Prince. Prince was deeply spiritual, deeply religious, and suicide is a form of murder, self-murder. Even with an illness, I cannot see Prince going against his beliefs like that. I know we can get desparate when we are hurting, when we have an illness, but Prince is not someone who would have succombed to those dark thoughts. He fought his entire life to get to where he was. He was a fighter in that regard. I cannot even fathom the idea that Prince would stop fighting, much less go against one of his most basic religious / spiritual ideas of respecting all life, loving himself. And the idea of loving yourself is spread throughout the Bible. For Prince to commit suicide, he would have to give up on God, give up on his beliefs. And I cannot see Prince ever doing that.

I had a very close friend of mine commit suicide whom as very spiritual, studied the bible quite extensively and had a bible next to him when he took his own life. I would totally agree with you and would never expect someone who was this smart, and this well read on religion to do such a thing to themselves. I could not ever see my friend doing something like this, and out of the blue, he did.

Sooooo, I'm not saying at all this is what P did, I'm just saying, the perception that spiritual people would never do this is flawed and I know from first hand experience.


And Curt, I just wanted to say, I'm so sorry for your loss. It's never easy losing anyone, much less to suicide. I'm so sorry.

Reply #557 posted 05/17/18 6:55am

disch

So to believe the "terminal illness" theory (let's say here, cancer) theory we need to believe:

-

1. That this disease went unmentioned or even alluded to anywhere in the invesigation docs, including the sections where the investigator recounts specific conversations with the medical examiner about Prince's death (the only thing in those discussions was drugs). The investigative reports don't indicate anything was redacted from those sections.

-

2. That lots of people know about this terminal illness, but have successfully agreed to complete public silence, even though some of the people aren't particularly media savvy and are prone to bickering over other (estate) stuff.

-

3. That Prince doesn't appear, based on anything made public, to have been receiving conventional treatment for this disease (even palliative care) but instead was self-medicating it with opioids he aquired on the black market or under other guises.

-

4. That in his final weeks Prince voluntarily meet with and discussed various medical complaints with a new doctor, all without mentioning his terminal illness, and he agreed to be examined and have his blood taken by the doctor, even though keeping his disease secret was of the highest importance to him.

-

5. That if the public knew about his underlying illness, everyone would immediately get "closure" and have no more questions -- rather than having lots MORE questions about why and how did the final month(s) of his life transpire in the way they did.

-

Look, I'm not saying it's impossible. It just is implausible and those who are claiming here that they have inside info about it should be willing to offer more details that can help address the points above.

Reply #558 posted 05/17/18 7:07am

stlmuziqlvr

Curt, I am so sorry for your loss and I can relate because I had the same thing happen to me. The spiritual person that I knew was my favorite Sunday School teacher and when I heard about it, I was shocked. She was gentle, kind, caring and gave of her self because she wanted to serve God.

I found our about it when I returned to my home state to visit my parents...and then they told me that she had been battling a profound depression and had even stated "I hope I don't do anything that will bring shame to God" and her words fell on deaf ears. I'm not surprised, as the church that I attended as a child had a very judgemental attitude when it came to mental health issues. They defi