laurarichardson said:

Morgaine said:

Speaking from my own experience nearly a decade ago, yes. And for some it is fairly easy to 'function' as usual while on many meds. Taking 1-2 pain pills when in pain doesn't necessarily make that person loaded or disoriented or uncoordinated, etc. Depends on the person, meds prescribed, medical condition, etc. Peace & Be Wild

Ah but according to some people on this board he was abusing and abusing is not taking 1-2 pills. Just think about that.

Take your Li and remember what they tell you at sunday service. Idol worship is forbidden! And remember, big difference between use and abuse. Was the woman present and lucid in the audience @CNN special - the very day after P passing - an abuser when she explained her daily opioid programme, which was prescribed by her own doctor?

Rebeljuice said:

I believe Prince had an on and off relationship with opioids for a long time. I also believe that he has managed to beat the problem on his own several times over the years.

We know Prince suffered pain over the years. We know that he had some sort of surgery on one of his hips. We know there has been an oportunity in the past to become dependent on strong pain killers after either a serious injury or surgery. We also know Prince was very private to the point of fear that anyone should find out his business. It therefore isn't a stretch to believe Prince self medicated his way through these periods of pain and used shady sources to obtain the meds. And seeing how KJ was involved in helping Prince get meds this time around, it also isnt a stretch to believe they have done this together before.

Which brings me to the facts and tidbits of the warrants. The pills found seem to be a hodgepodge of mislabelled meds placed in various bottles to disguise them. Hiding pills in vitamin bottles isn't surprising, but having so many differing varieties is. He would have had his preferred pill that he took so why would he have so many different brands and types scattered around? My theory is that his pill of choice was not available and so he was trying different types which were not providing a) the relief he needed and b) the ability to function normally after taking them.

What is the significsance of the Watson 853's and 385's? Well, it could just be a typo by someone along the line or it could be that Prince wanted the older discontinued pill because that was what he had used before and successfully weaned himself off with several years ago. Being discontinued perhaps he sought out something similar and presumed 853's were it? Perhaps not finding his pill of choice he was experimenting with other types looking for that same relief?

If there is anything we know about Prince, whatever pills he was taking he would not want them to intefere with his ability to function. He would have wanted a pill that dulled the pain but kept his drive intact. Juggling different pills looking for the one that brings the best relief, yet none of them succeeding is bound to send the user in a downward spiral. Which may also explain the severe withdrawals Prince was allegedly going through. The pills were either too strong or the side affects too severe that he tried to cut them out. Unfortunately, the grip they had on him at this point was simply too strong to quit, even after trying to halve his dosages by cutting pills up.

If this is true then not only was he juggling with pills that had side affects he did not know about, he was also juggling with dosages. Where he may have popped two pills in the past that gave the right amount of relief, only half of another kind of pill would be required to do the same. If he took two of that pill, then it could lead to an OD on, say, an aeroplane flying back from a concert.

I dont think he was a pill head, I think he was in search of a pill that gave the right amount of relief without the side affects and high that many people attribute to these pills. Unfortunately, he was pill shopping on the streets and gambling with unknown brands and chemical makeups.

All plausible and let's remember, Alan Leeds comment referring to the 80s, that he couldn't remember a tour P did where he wasn't in some kind of pain.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Rebeljuice said:

I believe Prince had an on and off relationship with opioids for a long time. I also believe that he has managed to beat the problem on his own several times over the years.

We know Prince suffered pain over the years. We know that he had some sort of surgery on one of his hips. We know there has been an oportunity in the past to become dependent on strong pain killers after either a serious injury or surgery. We also know Prince was very private to the point of fear that anyone should find out his business. It therefore isn't a stretch to believe Prince self medicated his way through these periods of pain and used shady sources to obtain the meds. And seeing how KJ was involved in helping Prince get meds this time around, it also isnt a stretch to believe they have done this together before.

Which brings me to the facts and tidbits of the warrants. The pills found seem to be a hodgepodge of mislabelled meds placed in various bottles to disguise them. Hiding pills in vitamin bottles isn't surprising, but having so many differing varieties is. He would have had his preferred pill that he took so why would he have so many different brands and types scattered around? My theory is that his pill of choice was not available and so he was trying different types which were not providing a) the relief he needed and b) the ability to function normally after taking them.

What is the significsance of the Watson 853's and 385's? Well, it could just be a typo by someone along the line or it could be that Prince wanted the older discontinued pill because that was what he had used before and successfully weaned himself off with several years ago. Being discontinued perhaps he sought out something similar and presumed 853's were it? Perhaps not finding his pill of choice he was experimenting with other types looking for that same relief?

If there is anything we know about Prince, whatever pills he was taking he would not want them to intefere with his ability to function. He would have wanted a pill that dulled the pain but kept his drive intact. Juggling different pills looking for the one that brings the best relief, yet none of them succeeding is bound to send the user in a downward spiral. Which may also explain the severe withdrawals Prince was allegedly going through. The pills were either too strong or the side affects too severe that he tried to cut them out. Unfortunately, the grip they had on him at this point was simply too strong to quit, even after trying to halve his dosages by cutting pills up.

If this is true then not only was he juggling with pills that had side affects he did not know about, he was also juggling with dosages. Where he may have popped two pills in the past that gave the right amount of relief, only half of another kind of pill would be required to do the same. If he took two of that pill, then it could lead to an OD on, say, an aeroplane flying back from a concert.

I dont think he was a pill head, I think he was in search of a pill that gave the right amount of relief without the side affects and high that many people attribute to these pills. Unfortunately, he was pill shopping on the streets and gambling with unknown brands and chemical makeups.

All plausible and let's remember, Alan Leeds comment referring to the 80s, that he couldn't remember a tour P did where he wasn't in some kind of pain.

Great post, especially the bolded intro. Thanks.

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

Morgaine said: Ah but according to some people on this board he was abusing and abusing is not taking 1-2 pills. Just think about that.

Take your Li and remember what they tell you at sunday service. Idol worship is forbidden! And remember, big difference between use and abuse. Was the woman present and lucid in the audience @CNN special - the very day after P passing - an abuser when she explained her daily opioid programme, which was prescribed by her own doctor?

WTF are you babbling about?

Rebeljuice said:

I believe Prince had an on and off relationship with opioids for a long time. I also believe that he has managed to beat the problem on his own several times over the years.

We know Prince suffered pain over the years. We know that he had some sort of surgery on one of his hips. We know there has been an oportunity in the past to become dependent on strong pain killers after either a serious injury or surgery. We also know Prince was very private to the point of fear that anyone should find out his business. It therefore isn't a stretch to believe Prince self medicated his way through these periods of pain and used shady sources to obtain the meds. And seeing how KJ was involved in helping Prince get meds this time around, it also isnt a stretch to believe they have done this together before.

Which brings me to the facts and tidbits of the warrants. The pills found seem to be a hodgepodge of mislabelled meds placed in various bottles to disguise them. Hiding pills in vitamin bottles isn't surprising, but having so many differing varieties is. He would have had his preferred pill that he took so why would he have so many different brands and types scattered around? My theory is that his pill of choice was not available and so he was trying different types which were not providing a) the relief he needed and b) the ability to function normally after taking them.

What is the significsance of the Watson 853's and 385's? Well, it could just be a typo by someone along the line or it could be that Prince wanted the older discontinued pill because that was what he had used before and successfully weaned himself off with several years ago. Being discontinued perhaps he sought out something similar and presumed 853's were it? Perhaps not finding his pill of choice he was experimenting with other types looking for that same relief?

If there is anything we know about Prince, whatever pills he was taking he would not want them to intefere with his ability to function. He would have wanted a pill that dulled the pain but kept his drive intact. Juggling different pills looking for the one that brings the best relief, yet none of them succeeding is bound to send the user in a downward spiral. Which may also explain the severe withdrawals Prince was allegedly going through. The pills were either too strong or the side affects too severe that he tried to cut them out. Unfortunately, the grip they had on him at this point was simply too strong to quit, even after trying to halve his dosages by cutting pills up.

If this is true then not only was he juggling with pills that had side affects he did not know about, he was also juggling with dosages. Where he may have popped two pills in the past that gave the right amount of relief, only half of another kind of pill would be required to do the same. If he took two of that pill, then it could lead to an OD on, say, an aeroplane flying back from a concert.

I dont think he was a pill head, I think he was in search of a pill that gave the right amount of relief without the side affects and high that many people attribute to these pills. Unfortunately, he was pill shopping on the streets and gambling with unknown brands and chemical makeups.

"We also know Prince was very private to the point of fear that anyone should find out his business. "

Why fear it simply was not anyone's business and what would his friends and associates have been able to do about chronic pain? I will answer the question nothing.

laurarichardson said:

WTF are you babbling about?

And a Happy Turkey Day to you too!

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

Ah but according to some people on this board he was abusing and abusing is not taking 1-2 pills. Just think about that.

Take your Li and remember what they tell you at sunday service. Idol worship is forbidden! And remember, big difference between use and abuse. Was the woman present and lucid in the audience @CNN special - the very day after P passing - an abuser when she explained her daily opioid programme, which was prescribed by her own doctor?

WTF are you babbling about?

The woman in the CNN opioid debate was from the audience. The event took place when it did because P had just passed, but the broader debate was to do with the endemic opiate problem in the country. BTW this woman wasn't mumbling or falling down the stairs. But she was taking a lot more than the odd pill or two.

In fact she was taking opioid medication every day, which is commonplace when you consider these opioid programmes are routinely administered by many doctors througout the western world. Are you saying then, all of these doctors are complicit in their patients' 'drug abuse'? They're not walking into lamp posts, or crashing their cars. Jsuk.

Doubling back...



I have been focusing on the (100) "Watson 853" pills taken into custody from Paisley park. This is the only known opiate mentioned in the warrant that was found @ Paisley Park .

I checked on the drug label information to do some basic calculations in order to find out what amount of this drug by itself would reproduce the effect of an overdose that occurred in Atlanta.

I used a dosing recommendation ( for adults) of approximately (1) 10 milligram tablet of Hydrocodone Bitartrate every 4-6 hours. To produce the similar action of an overdose, Prince would have had to ingest no less than 8-9 times the amount of Hydrocodone within a very short period of time (as in right after the show). I am calculating the time that show ended in conjunction with the time of the call per the flight details.

That type of dosing can only be translated as in:

1. Someone who is in extreme pain.

2. Someone who has a developed very high tolerance and is clearly used to very high doses of Hydrocodone.

3. Someone who took something else that would produce a similar effect to that of 90-100 milligrams of Hydrocone in your system in less than 4-6- hours.

In regards to the (3) three above-mentioned points:

1. If he were in extreme pain, Judith, Kirk, or the unnamed doctor in Moline would have mentioned that as the impetus for the overdose. The incessant rumor mill (about an overdose) would have taken a back seat to the "Prince was in extreme pain" narrative. Further, if he was in extreme pain , it would have been glaringly obvious way before he boarded the plane. Someone would have seen that back at the venue.

2. They were (100) pills of Hydrocodone found at Paisley Park. There is reason to believe that Prince was buying in bulk and did not consume his first pill(s) at the show in Atlanta nor a week before. That being said, there is a high probability that there was long term mental dependence ( addiction) .

3. There is little to no evidence to support that "Watson 853" is known for producing overdoses whether the pill format is prescribed or illicit. There is also no incentive for dealers/pill mills to produce large quantities of said pill when there is no market for it. There is scant evidence to support that watson 853 is used in toxic combination with other illicit opiates. Further, the evidence does not support that a toxic combination pill has been reproduced for large scale distribution.

* There are many reports of long term "Watson 853" users who are able to identify a legitimate "853" pill by various means: Prince would have been familiar with these if buying in bulk.

1. Color (changed in 2013 to white)

2. Texture

3. Taste

4. Effectiveness

There were only two other pills that were largely manufactured and distributed (2015-16) and were a toxic combination mix of high levels of fentanyl and hydrocodone. Those are the "roxy's" and "A215's". None of these were found @ Paisley Park.

There is a high degree of certainty that Prince did not overdose from a watson 853 pill(s), roxys, or a215's.

Conclusion: A separate agent(s) of the fentanyl analogue that was not found.

Menes said:

Doubling back...



I have been focusing on the (100) "Watson 853" pills taken into custody from Paisley park. This is the only known opiate mentioned in the warrant that was found @ Paisley Park .

I checked on the drug label information to do some basic calculations in order to find out what amount of this drug by itself would reproduce the effect of an overdose that occurred in Atlanta.

I used a dosing recommendation ( for adults) of approximately (1) 10 milligram tablet of Hydrocodone Bitartrate every 4-6 hours. To produce the similar action of an overdose, Prince would have had to ingest no less than 8-9 times the amount of Hydrocodone within a very short period of time (as in right after the show). I am calculating the time that show ended in conjunction with the time of the call per the flight details.

That type of dosing can only be translated as in:

1. Someone who is in extreme pain.

2. Someone who has a developed very high tolerance and is clearly used to very high doses of Hydrocodone.

3. Someone who took something else that would produce a similar effect to that of 90-100 milligrams of Hydrocone in your system in less than 4-6- hours.

In regards to the (3) three above-mentioned points:

1. If he were in extreme pain, Judith, Kirk, or the unnamed doctor in Moline would have mentioned that as the impetus for the overdose. The incessant rumor mill (about an overdose) would have taken a back seat to the "Prince was in extreme pain" narrative. Further, if he was in extreme pain , it would have been glaringly obvious way before he boarded the plane. Someone would have seen that back at the venue.

2. They were (100) pills of Hydrocodone found at Paisley Park. There is reason to believe that Prince was buying in bulk and did not consume his first pill(s) at the show in Atlanta nor a week before. That being said, there is a high probability that there was long term mental dependence ( addiction) .

3. There is little to no evidence to support that "Watson 853" is known for producing overdoses whether the pill format is prescribed or illicit. There is also no incentive for dealers/pill mills to produce large quantities of said pill when there is no market for it. There is scant evidence to support that watson 853 is used in toxic combination with other illicit opiates. Further, the evidence does not support that a toxic combination pill has been reproduced for large scale distribution.

* There are many reports of long term "Watson 853" users who are able to identify a legitimate "853" pill by various means: Prince would have been familiar with these if buying in bulk.

1. Color (changed in 2013 to white)

2. Texture

3. Taste

4. Effectiveness

There were only two other pills that were largely manufactured and distributed (2015-16) and were a toxic combination mix of high levels of fentanyl and hydrocodone. Those are the "roxy's" and "A215's". None of these were found @ Paisley Park.

There is a high degree of certainty that Prince did not overdose from a watson 853 pill(s), roxys, or a215's.

Conclusion: A separate agent(s) of the fentanyl analogue that was not found.

Menes, brilliant work, as usual, and a conclusion that is spot on. It was always a fentanyl story, and a fentanyl death. People have been getting lost in the minutia of the kind/quantity/quality/origin/legitimacy/markings of the pills found at PP and they have been chasing their tails. It's fentanyl...

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Doubling back...



I have been focusing on the (100) "Watson 853" pills taken into custody from Paisley park. This is the only known opiate mentioned in the warrant that was found @ Paisley Park .

I checked on the drug label information to do some basic calculations in order to find out what amount of this drug by itself would reproduce the effect of an overdose that occurred in Atlanta.

I used a dosing recommendation ( for adults) of approximately (1) 10 milligram tablet of Hydrocodone Bitartrate every 4-6 hours. To produce the similar action of an overdose, Prince would have had to ingest no less than 8-9 times the amount of Hydrocodone within a very short period of time (as in right after the show). I am calculating the time that show ended in conjunction with the time of the call per the flight details.

That type of dosing can only be translated as in:

1. Someone who is in extreme pain.

2. Someone who has a developed very high tolerance and is clearly used to very high doses of Hydrocodone.

3. Someone who took something else that would produce a similar effect to that of 90-100 milligrams of Hydrocone in your system in less than 4-6- hours.

In regards to the (3) three above-mentioned points:

1. If he were in extreme pain, Judith, Kirk, or the unnamed doctor in Moline would have mentioned that as the impetus for the overdose. The incessant rumor mill (about an overdose) would have taken a back seat to the "Prince was in extreme pain" narrative. Further, if he was in extreme pain , it would have been glaringly obvious way before he boarded the plane. Someone would have seen that back at the venue.

2. They were (100) pills of Hydrocodone found at Paisley Park. There is reason to believe that Prince was buying in bulk and did not consume his first pill(s) at the show in Atlanta nor a week before. That being said, there is a high probability that there was long term mental dependence ( addiction) .

3. There is little to no evidence to support that "Watson 853" is known for producing overdoses whether the pill format is prescribed or illicit. There is also no incentive for dealers/pill mills to produce large quantities of said pill when there is no market for it. There is scant evidence to support that watson 853 is used in toxic combination with other illicit opiates. Further, the evidence does not support that a toxic combination pill has been reproduced for large scale distribution.

* There are many reports of long term "Watson 853" users who are able to identify a legitimate "853" pill by various means: Prince would have been familiar with these if buying in bulk.

1. Color (changed in 2013 to white)

2. Texture

3. Taste

4. Effectiveness

There were only two other pills that were largely manufactured and distributed (2015-16) and were a toxic combination mix of high levels of fentanyl and hydrocodone. Those are the "roxy's" and "A215's". None of these were found @ Paisley Park.

There is a high degree of certainty that Prince did not overdose from a watson 853 pill(s), roxys, or a215's.

Conclusion: A separate agent(s) of the fentanyl analogue that was not found.

Menes, brilliant work, as usual, and a conclusion that is spot on. It was always a fentanyl story, and a fentanyl death. People have been getting lost in the minutia of the kind/quantity/quality/origin/legitimacy/markings of the pills found at PP and they have been chasing their tails. It's fentanyl...

Thanks. You are correct. It is fentanyl, and it is something he had to have had in his possession way before he overdosed. If he didn't have it in Atlanta, then based on the evidence, you would have to conclude that Prince was popping pills in his mouth like they were the last bag of skittles on earth that night. It's one or the other.

The man had secrets and they can't have it both ways.

It's not controversial to me. I will state this right here and now. Prince was an addict. There is nothing wrong with that . What is absurd to believe is that he only and always ingested opiates simply for the purpose of diminishing the pain. That I don't believe.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Doubling back...



I have been focusing on the (100) "Watson 853" pills taken into custody from Paisley park. This is the only known opiate mentioned in the warrant that was found @ Paisley Park .

I checked on the drug label information to do some basic calculations in order to find out what amount of this drug by itself would reproduce the effect of an overdose that occurred in Atlanta.

I used a dosing recommendation ( for adults) of approximately (1) 10 milligram tablet of Hydrocodone Bitartrate every 4-6 hours. To produce the similar action of an overdose, Prince would have had to ingest no less than 8-9 times the amount of Hydrocodone within a very short period of time (as in right after the show). I am calculating the time that show ended in conjunction with the time of the call per the flight details.

That type of dosing can only be translated as in:

1. Someone who is in extreme pain.

2. Someone who has a developed very high tolerance and is clearly used to very high doses of Hydrocodone.

3. Someone who took something else that would produce a similar effect to that of 90-100 milligrams of Hydrocone in your system in less than 4-6- hours.

In regards to the (3) three above-mentioned points:

1. If he were in extreme pain, Judith, Kirk, or the unnamed doctor in Moline would have mentioned that as the impetus for the overdose. The incessant rumor mill (about an overdose) would have taken a back seat to the "Prince was in extreme pain" narrative. Further, if he was in extreme pain , it would have been glaringly obvious way before he boarded the plane. Someone would have seen that back at the venue.

2. They were (100) pills of Hydrocodone found at Paisley Park. There is reason to believe that Prince was buying in bulk and did not consume his first pill(s) at the show in Atlanta nor a week before. That being said, there is a high probability that there was long term mental dependence ( addiction) .

3. There is little to no evidence to support that "Watson 853" is known for producing overdoses whether the pill format is prescribed or illicit. There is also no incentive for dealers/pill mills to produce large quantities of said pill when there is no market for it. There is scant evidence to support that watson 853 is used in toxic combination with other illicit opiates. Further, the evidence does not support that a toxic combination pill has been reproduced for large scale distribution.

* There are many reports of long term "Watson 853" users who are able to identify a legitimate "853" pill by various means: Prince would have been familiar with these if buying in bulk.

1. Color (changed in 2013 to white)

2. Texture

3. Taste

4. Effectiveness

There were only two other pills that were largely manufactured and distributed (2015-16) and were a toxic combination mix of high levels of fentanyl and hydrocodone. Those are the "roxy's" and "A215's". None of these were found @ Paisley Park.

There is a high degree of certainty that Prince did not overdose from a watson 853 pill(s), roxys, or a215's.

Conclusion: A separate agent(s) of the fentanyl analogue that was not found.

Menes, brilliant work, as usual, and a conclusion that is spot on. It was always a fentanyl story, and a fentanyl death. People have been getting lost in the minutia of the kind/quantity/quality/origin/legitimacy/markings of the pills found at PP and they have been chasing their tails. It's fentanyl...

You certainly wouldn't want to OD on Watson 853 pills! The acetaminophen could fuck things in your body first. And that wouldn't be a pleasant way to go. I believe a fentanyl analogue was acquired and taken separately, despite the apparent lack of evidence.

It wouldn't be too difficult for P to acquire a small batch, small enough to carry within his own clothing. I believe the Watson 853 batch was imported from China through the internet, and he also ordered fentanyl separately via the same method.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes, brilliant work, as usual, and a conclusion that is spot on. It was always a fentanyl story, and a fentanyl death. People have been getting lost in the minutia of the kind/quantity/quality/origin/legitimacy/markings of the pills found at PP and they have been chasing their tails. It's fentanyl...

You certainly wouldn't want to OD on Watson 853 pills! The acetaminophen could fuck things in your body first. And that wouldn't be a pleasant way to go. I believe a fentanyl analogue was acquired and taken separately, despite the apparent lack of evidence.

It wouldn't be too difficult for P to acquire a small batch, small enough to carry within his own clothing. I believe the Watson 853 batch was imported from China through the internet, and he also ordered fentanyl separately via the same method.

Correct. BTW, did anyone notice that : ( brace yourself)

1. It was stated he agreed to rehab & recovery.

2. That some of the pills found indicate that he was attempting to wean.

3. That by weaning yourself off or seeking to enter rehab you would have to discard or greatly diminish the amount of the same exact pills you were taking for pain?

4. Yet, he never threw out the pills after coming back from Atlanta?

* Which is it? What does that say?

Menes said:

Thanks. You are correct. It is fentanyl, and it is something he had to have had in his possession way before he overdosed. If he didn't have it in Atlanta, then based on the evidence, you would have to conclude that Prince was popping pills in his mouth like they were the last bag of skittles on earth that night. It's one or the other.

The man had secrets and they can't have it both ways.

It's not controversial to me. I will state this right here and now. Prince was an addict. There is nothing wrong with that . What is absurd to believe is that he only and always ingested opiates simply for the purpose of diminishing the pain. That I don't believe.

According to what I was told there was no evidence of multiple pills in the stomach of Prince at autopsy. The Fentanyl was in the Watson pills and the amounts would have killed him by touching them with a bare hand.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes, brilliant work, as usual, and a conclusion that is spot on. It was always a fentanyl story, and a fentanyl death. People have been getting lost in the minutia of the kind/quantity/quality/origin/legitimacy/markings of the pills found at PP and they have been chasing their tails. It's fentanyl...

Thanks. You are correct. It is fentanyl, and it is something he had to have had in his possession way before he overdosed. If he didn't have it in Atlanta, then based on the evidence, you would have to conclude that Prince was popping pills in his mouth like they were the last bag of skittles on earth that night. It's one or the other.

The man had secrets and they can't have it both ways.

It's not controversial to me. I will state this right here and now. Prince was an addict. There is nothing wrong with that . What is absurd to believe is that he only and always ingested opiates simply for the purpose of diminishing the pain. That I don't believe.

muleFunk said:

Menes said:

Thanks. You are correct. It is fentanyl, and it is something he had to have had in his possession way before he overdosed. If he didn't have it in Atlanta, then based on the evidence, you would have to conclude that Prince was popping pills in his mouth like they were the last bag of skittles on earth that night. It's one or the other.

The man had secrets and they can't have it both ways.

It's not controversial to me. I will state this right here and now. Prince was an addict. There is nothing wrong with that . What is absurd to believe is that he only and always ingested opiates simply for the purpose of diminishing the pain. That I don't believe.

According to what I was told there was no evidence of multiple pills in the stomach of Prince at autopsy. The Fentanyl was in the Watson pills and the amounts would have killed him by touching them with a bare hand.

Are you getting this from the same source that told you that Prince was a champion for black people, who are the sworn enemy of the tangerine toddler in charge?

fortuneandserendipity said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes, brilliant work, as usual, and a conclusion that is spot on. It was always a fentanyl story, and a fentanyl death. People have been getting lost in the minutia of the kind/quantity/quality/origin/legitimacy/markings of the pills found at PP and they have been chasing their tails. It's fentanyl...

You certainly wouldn't want to OD on Watson 853 pills! The acetaminophen could fuck things in your body first. And that wouldn't be a pleasant way to go. I believe a fentanyl analogue was acquired and taken separately, despite the apparent lack of evidence.

It wouldn't be too difficult for P to acquire a small batch, small enough to carry within his own clothing. I believe the Watson 853 batch was imported from China through the internet, and he also ordered fentanyl separately via the same method.

Fentanyl WITH LIDOCAINE for rectal insertion.

Menes said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

You certainly wouldn't want to OD on Watson 853 pills! The acetaminophen could fuck things in your body first. And that wouldn't be a pleasant way to go. I believe a fentanyl analogue was acquired and taken separately, despite the apparent lack of evidence.

It wouldn't be too difficult for P to acquire a small batch, small enough to carry within his own clothing. I believe the Watson 853 batch was imported from China through the internet, and he also ordered fentanyl separately via the same method.

Correct. BTW, did anyone notice that : ( brace yourself)

1. It was stated he agreed to rehab & recovery.

2. That some of the pills found indicate that he was attempting to wean.

3. That by weaning yourself off or seeking to enter rehab you would have to discard or greatly diminish the amount of the same exact pills you were taking for pain?

4. Yet, he never threw out the pills after coming back from Atlanta?

* Which is it? What does that say?

He 'yessed' people to shut them up but he had NO INTENTION of following through with drug rehab. He had other plans.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

You certainly wouldn't want to OD on Watson 853 pills! The acetaminophen could fuck things in your body first. And that wouldn't be a pleasant way to go. I believe a fentanyl analogue was acquired and taken separately, despite the apparent lack of evidence.

It wouldn't be too difficult for P to acquire a small batch, small enough to carry within his own clothing. I believe the Watson 853 batch was imported from China through the internet, and he also ordered fentanyl separately via the same method.

Fentanyl WITH LIDOCAINE for rectal insertion.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Correct. BTW, did anyone notice that : ( brace yourself)

1. It was stated he agreed to rehab & recovery.

2. That some of the pills found indicate that he was attempting to wean.

3. That by weaning yourself off or seeking to enter rehab you would have to discard or greatly diminish the amount of the same exact pills you were taking for pain?

4. Yet, he never threw out the pills after coming back from Atlanta?

* Which is it? What does that say?

He 'yessed' people to shut them up but he had NO INTENTION of following through with drug rehab. He had other plans.

Correct again!

The devil is in the details so let's paint this picture. Let's say you have cancer... More so, terminal cancer, and you are in unbearable excruciating pain and have but so long to live, do you think that the generic watson 853 pill would be your go to drug of choice? This generic drug is nothing. If you are Prince , and have the financial wherewithal to get any drug you want, you're not getting generic watson 853 because you had myloid leukemia for the last 15 years (this is according to our resident detective Colombo, aka MuleFunk). We will have to put this one in the cold case files until we get another resident detective on the case.

Let's keep painting... who in their right mind would agree to rehab when you have terminal cancer or severe hip pain from surgery when all you really had was this one lousy generic opiate in your possession that soothes the pain from either of the two? It's not as if he had the option of giving up 5- 6 different opiates that were found. Whats worse?The addiction or the pain? What's missing?

Let's flip the easel upside damn down here... after taking "x" (for the supposed excruciating hip pain or pain from terminal cancer) in Atlanta immediately after the show, why would you still have a batch of the same toxic opiate in your suitcase or laying around your house in open view after the trip? What sort of a person would determine that it was safer to keep the same batch of toxic opiate LAYING RIGHT NEXT TO HIS BED than to get another batch that just might be safer? You would have to determine that this can't possibly be the same thing(watson 853) unless Prince was totally bonkers. Further , our resident forensic specialist ( you guessed it ), MuleFunk ,says that the fentanyl in the watson 853's he ingested would kill a person if he touched it with his bare hands. Imagine that, Prince didn't know that if he touched it AGAIN, it would kill him. So much for observation.

[Edited 11/24/17 18:11pm]

NotACleverName said:

206Michelle said:

I'm not convinced that he was using Oxycodone or morphine for 15 to 20 years on a daily or regular basis. Over the last 2 to 3 years of his life, yes, the evidence is clear that he was using painkillers regularly. I could believe that he used painkillers intermittently over 15 to 20 years, but not regularly or daily. I'm not an expert on opioids, but from what I'm reading, Oxycodone and morphine are both highly addictive. If he had been using opioids daily for 15 to 20 years, why didn't Mayte see him taking them regularly in the late 90s? She only recounted a couple of specific incidents when she observed the effects of him taking some pills. She wrote in her book that she didn't see him taking pills or painkillers ever, and that the possible drug-induced incidents were few and far between. She was there, so until someone can prove otherwise, I have to take her at her word. I'm not trying to be in denial about him using his opioid use. I'm not trying to convince myself that he was drug-free. I just can't see how he could use opioids for 15 to 20 years on a daily/regular basis without detection or withdrawals or going to rehab. If I see evidence to prove me wrong, then I will be the first to admit that I am wrong about my prediction. However, based on the evidence available right now, I cannot conclude that he was using or dependent upon Oxycodone or morphine regulary/daily for 20 years.

Don't forget, the illegal meds were a mixture of hydrocodone and other drugs. Not mitigating the addictive qualities but it is a step down from oxy. Where/when did Morphine come into the conversation? Morphine is more potent than hydro and oxy. I can't recall when this was part of the med convo. With the aforementioned in mind, I would agree that Oxy and Morphine were not used regularly. I believe it was Hydrocodone. My intent is not to convince anyone as I only offer an opinion based on various articles, appearances, info in warrants, associate accounts, etc. However, long term use of pain meds is generally part and parcel of chronic pain....which Sheila E and others have said Prince suffered with. Additionally, long term, for me, constitutes more than a few months. Nowhere, did I did state long term daily use. I believe he used them off and on from the mid to late 90s, but the last few years was consistent use. I would suspect the last year the dosage was continuously increased. I simply take into account Mayte's revelation, Manuela's FB comment, hip surgery (I see a progressive weight loss and limping from Montreaux 2009 to his rare sit down appearance in Paris late that year as indicactive of a serious situation), Elisa's recent info of an incident in 2010 to infer he struggled for a long time. That is all. If your opinion differs, I am fine with that. No worries.

[Edited 11/21/17 21:01pm]

Prince did receive Oxycodone:

If you guys are trying to say that Prince chose his 0wn time to die you are off !

Do you really think that if that was the case,

there would have been even one sigle pill

on his property anywhere ?

Think about it ?

Prince is smarter than smart...

If he was going to take his own life

he would not have left a whisper of any evidence

If P had CHosen his own time,

there would have been no other pills

of any kind around anywhere

He would have gotten rid of everything

except the dose he was planning to take.

There would have been no leads, nothing to speculate on

nothing.

The fact that there were pills stashed around everywhere

tells us two things VERY clearly

1) He was not planning to go that night

2) He was weaning

(1/2 pills found, there for he was very aware that he was dependant and

not happy about it )

Lovejunky said:

If you guys are trying to say that Prince chose his 0wn time to die you are off !

Do you really think that if that was the case,

there would have been even one sigle pill

on his property anywhere ?

Think about it ?

Prince is smarter than smart...

If he was going to take his own life

he would not have left a whisper of any evidence

If P had CHosen his own time,

there would have been no other pills

of any kind around anywhere

He would have gotten rid of everything

except the dose he was planning to take.

There would have been no leads, nothing to speculate on

nothing.

The fact that there were pills stashed around everywhere

tells us two things VERY clearly

1) He was not planning to go that night

2) He was weaning

(1/2 pills found, there for he was very aware that he was dependant and

not happy about it )

1.There is a clear scientific role for impulsivity in suicide.

2. Leaving a"whisper of evidence" does not mean that the person could not have decided to end life at that moment.

3. The fact that pills were stashed everywhere could also mean that he is functioning as most addicts do.

4. Weaning , becasue 1/2 pills were found, may indicate he was aware that he was mentally dependent on said pills. Having 99 more at your disposal, says another.

And what's so bad about suicide? Culture.

Great points, Menes.

Menes said:

Lovejunky said:

If you guys are trying to say that Prince chose his 0wn time to die you are off !

Do you really think that if that was the case,

there would have been even one sigle pill

on his property anywhere ?

Think about it ?

Prince is smarter than smart...

If he was going to take his own life

he would not have left a whisper of any evidence

If P had CHosen his own time,

there would have been no other pills

of any kind around anywhere

He would have gotten rid of everything

except the dose he was planning to take.

There would have been no leads, nothing to speculate on

nothing.

The fact that there were pills stashed around everywhere

tells us two things VERY clearly

1) He was not planning to go that night

2) He was weaning

(1/2 pills found, there for he was very aware that he was dependant and

not happy about it )

1.There is a clear scientific role for impulsivity in suicide.

2. Leaving a"whisper of evidence" does not mean that the person could not have decided to end life at that moment.

3. The fact that pills were stashed everywhere could also mean that he is functioning as most addicts do.

4. Weaning , becasue 1/2 pills were found, may indicate he was aware that he was mentally dependent on said pills. Having 99 more at your disposal, says another.

And what's so bad about suicide? Culture.

so...

you,re leaning towards there being some kind of coverup and the Coronor is complicit then ?

Lovejunky said:

Menes said:

1.There is a clear scientific role for impulsivity in suicide.

2. Leaving a"whisper of evidence" does not mean that the person could not have decided to end life at that moment.

3. The fact that pills were stashed everywhere could also mean that he is functioning as most addicts do.

4. Weaning , becasue 1/2 pills were found, may indicate he was aware that he was mentally dependent on said pills. Having 99 more at your disposal, says another.

And what's so bad about suicide? Culture.

so...

you,re leaning towards there being some kind of coverup and the Coronor is complicit then ?

No. I have accepted what the medical examiner has stated as the cause/manner of death. She has guidelines.

She was not able to take into consideration many many other factors to determine why a person would want to end life.

People view suicide as cowardly, as a selfish act, and pass religious edicts as if they are in the mind of God himself on the subject. What more did we need ? When your doctor or your family members gives the order to pull the plug, what is that called? Legal?

Who am I to determine why/when a person decides to check out?

I , like you, embrace his death. To me, his addiction is the same as Prince and his music creation. They are one, controlled by the same impulses. Every single day he fought a trigger that caused him to use. Every singe day a synapse formed an inherent yearning to create. It is all inherent.

When people stop idolizing Prince and focus on the fabric of the person, they will have a greater appreciation for the mind of the man and his music.

Maybe its just me, but I find it befitting that his death is mysterious and that he was found in an elevator. Imagine what we would be debating if we knew he was hooked up to a feeding tube or that he was on a morphine drip for time unknown as he withered away.

Menes said:

Menes said:

Lovejunky said:

so...

you,re leaning towards there being some kind of coverup and the Coronor is complicit then ?

No. I have accepted what the medical examiner has stated as the cause/manner of death. She has guidelines.

She was not able to take into consideration many many other factors to determine why a person would want to end life.

People view suicide as cowardly, as a selfish act, and pass religious edicts as if they are in the mind of God himself on the subject. What more did we need ? When your doctor or your family members gives the order to pull the plug, what is that called? Legal?

Who am I to determine why/when a person decides to check out?

I , like you, embrace his death. To me, his addiction is the same as Prince and his music creation. They are one, controlled by the same impulses. Every single day he fought a trigger that caused him to use. Every singe day a synapse formed an inherent yearning to create. It is all inherent.

When people stop idolizing Prince and focus on the fabric of the person, they will have a greater appreciation for the mind of the man and his music.

Maybe its just me, but I find it befitting that his death is mysterious and that he was found in an elevator. Imagine what we would be debating if we knew he was hooked up to a feeding tube or that he was on a morphine drip for time unknown as he withered away.

Oh Menes: Thank God for your words, they feel ripped out of my heart. I , too, am glad he’s at peace with his God. I didn’t want to see him suffer anymore…And I thank that same God that I was able to dance ‘with’ Prince this morning and tonight when I make love he’ll be smiling (maybe smirking) in the back of my mind. To me, he still lives…so all is well.

Menes said:

Lovejunky said:

If you guys are trying to say that Prince chose his 0wn time to die you are off !

Do you really think that if that was the case,

there would have been even one sigle pill

on his property anywhere ?

Think about it ?

Prince is smarter than smart...

If he was going to take his own life

he would not have left a whisper of any evidence

If P had CHosen his own time,

there would have been no other pills

of any kind around anywhere

He would have gotten rid of everything

except the dose he was planning to take.

There would have been no leads, nothing to speculate on

nothing.

The fact that there were pills stashed around everywhere

tells us two things VERY clearly

1) He was not planning to go that night

2) He was weaning

(1/2 pills found, there for he was very aware that he was dependant and

not happy about it )

Lovejunky, I totally agree with you.

Menes said:

Lovejunky said:

If you guys are trying to say that Prince chose his 0wn time to die you are off !

Do you really think that if that was the case,

there would have been even one sigle pill

on his property anywhere ?

Think about it ?

Prince is smarter than smart...

If he was going to take his own life

he would not have left a whisper of any evidence

If P had CHosen his own time,

there would have been no other pills

of any kind around anywhere

He would have gotten rid of everything

except the dose he was planning to take.

There would have been no leads, nothing to speculate on

nothing.

The fact that there were pills stashed around everywhere

tells us two things VERY clearly

1) He was not planning to go that night

2) He was weaning

(1/2 pills found, there for he was very aware that he was dependant and

not happy about it )

1.There is a clear scientific role for impulsivity in suicide.

2. Leaving a"whisper of evidence" does not mean that the person could not have decided to end life at that moment.

3. The fact that pills were stashed everywhere could also mean that he is functioning as most addicts do.

4. Weaning , becasue 1/2 pills were found, may indicate he was aware that he was mentally dependent on said pills. Having 99 more at your disposal, says another.

And what's so bad about suicide? Culture.

When he died, his socks were inside-out and his pants and shirt were backwards. For him to be dressed like that was very un-Prince-like.

[Pills seized from Paisley Park contained illicit fentanyl, same drug that killed Prince

Link: http://www.startribune.co...390816101/]

.

Even if his days were numbered, as Tyka has said, he still had a little left in the tank. He [had] a memoir that he was writing.

.

I have no reason to doubt the conclusions of the cornoner and investigators who were there and saw the evidence. He is the most famous person from the state of Minnesota. There were news outlets and cameras outside of Paisley Park for weeks after his death. If the investigators did something wrong, I would have expected to hear about it in the media and/or from the family.

.

[Edits/additions are in brackets]

[Edited 11/25/17 17:46pm]