morningsong said:

Morgaine said:

morningsong said:

853s are quite popular and are still made by a different company, they are 10/325. The 385s were completely discontinued, they are 7.5/500. So no they are not the same medication.

They actually did discontinue the yellow 10/325 Watson's that were so popular - they removed the yellow dye and they are now white. It is my understanding that the Watson company does not manufacture hydrocodone anymore, a company called Actavis (sp?) does. I have a friend who takes these for chronic pain and had to switch meds because the newer version didn't work the same. Thanks for the information you provided. The media reporting a different # than the search warrant was confusing. Peace & Be Wild Peace & Be Wild

So true.

PennyPurple said:

Morgaine said:

Menes said:

Which usually means doubling up in efforts to reach that summit of a high when they resume .

Either that or the person uses the same amount and unintentionally ODs. It's actually quite common. This was interesting information I found on opium.org about Narcan. "Naloxone on the other hand has a half life of 2 to 12 hours. This means that it takes the body between 48 to 84 hours to remove it from its system. Complete blocking of opiates continues until approximately 24 hours after a person takes Suboxone."

I think I posted sometime back that they never stated that the fentanyl in his blood came from the pills that were found. As a matter of fact, it almost seemed as though it was separate from the pills that were found when I read it. I will have to find that post.

Menes said:

Morgaine said:

Menes said: Either that or the person uses the same amount and unintentionally ODs. It's actually quite common. This was interesting information I found on opium.org about Narcan. "Naloxone on the other hand has a half life of 2 to 12 hours. This means that it takes the body between 48 to 84 hours to remove it from its system. Complete blocking of opiates continues until approximately 24 hours after a person takes Suboxone."

I think I posted sometime back that they never stated that the fentanyl in his blood came from the pills that were found. As a matter of fact, it almost seemed as though it was separate from the pills that were found when I read it. I will have to find that post.

September 19th, 2016 warrant:

Toggle down to the paragraph beginning with : On Monday , 05-09-16 ( ME call)



The paragraph after that indicates that" the investigation into Prince's death began focusing on where Prince obtained the fentanyl and controlled narcotic prescription medication located in his bedroom the day of his death and who gave it to him".

They already knew where the Oxycodone prescription came from because Dr Schulenberg's statement on 4-21-2016 told them so. There would be no need to confirm the same information .

1. Is the statement saying that this medication is the same one or another medication?

2. Is the statement saying that the fentanyl is separate from the medication that was found in the bedroom?

3. Is the statement saying that the medication and the fentanyl are one?

Menes said:

Menes said:

I think I posted sometime back that they never stated that the fentanyl in his blood came from the pills that were found. As a matter of fact, it almost seemed as though it was separate from the pills that were found when I read it. I will have to find that post.

September 19th, 2016 warrant:

Toggle down to the paragraph beginning with : On Monday , 05-09-16 ( ME call)



The paragraph after that indicates that" the investigation into Prince's death began focusing on where Prince obtained the fentanyl and controlled narcotic prescription medication located in his bedroom the day of his death and who gave it to him".

They already knew where the Oxycodone prescription came from because Dr Schulenberg's statement on 4-21-2016 told them so. There would be no need to confirm the same information .

1. Is the statement saying that this medication is the same one or another medication?

2. Is the statement saying that the fentanyl is separate from the medication that was found in the bedroom?

3. Is the statement saying that the medication and the fentanyl are one?

Couldn't make heads or tail of that statement.

Gee, why do I get the disheartening feeling that we are putting more effort/thought into drilling down into these questions than the police?

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Hey precioux...missed you!

Menes said:

Menes said:

I think I posted sometime back that they never stated that the fentanyl in his blood came from the pills that were found. As a matter of fact, it almost seemed as though it was separate from the pills that were found when I read it. I will have to find that post.

September 19th, 2016 warrant:

Toggle down to the paragraph beginning with : On Monday , 05-09-16 ( ME call)



The paragraph after that indicates that" the investigation into Prince's death began focusing on where Prince obtained the fentanyl and controlled narcotic prescription medication located in his bedroom the day of his death and who gave it to him".

They already knew where the Oxycodone prescription came from because Dr Schulenberg's statement on 4-21-2016 told them so. There would be no need to confirm the same information .

1. Is the statement saying that this medication is the same one or another medication?

2. Is the statement saying that the fentanyl is separate from the medication that was found in the bedroom?

3. Is the statement saying that the medication and the fentanyl are one?

There were 3 bottles found with 853s per the 1st warrant. Not all were in the bedroom, and not all the bottles were specified where they were found. In fact only one bottle was specified where it was found, in the dressing room.

My question is which ones where supposedly the Oxycodone prescribed for Kirk on the 14th, were they even there and actually for Kirk or was it just a few tablets so they were already used up by the 20th?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Morgaine said:

Menes said: Either that or the person uses the same amount and unintentionally ODs. It's actually quite common. This was interesting information I found on opium.org about Narcan. "Naloxone on the other hand has a half life of 2 to 12 hours. This means that it takes the body between 48 to 84 hours to remove it from its system. Complete blocking of opiates continues until approximately 24 hours after a person takes Suboxone."

I think I posted sometime back that they never stated that the fentanyl in his blood came from the pills that were found. As a matter of fact, it almost seemed as though it was separate from the pills that were found when I read it. I will have to find that post.

The warrants didn't specify that in any way form or fashion, they just said that they got a call from the ME who stated it was a fentanyl overdose. Nothing in the warrants pointed to any of the pills.

Morgaine said:

morningsong said:

Menes said:

I think I posted sometime back that they never stated that the fentanyl in his blood came from the pills that were found. As a matter of fact, it almost seemed as though it was separate from the pills that were found when I read it. I will have to find that post.

The warrants didn't specify that in any way form or fashion, they just said that they got a call from the ME who stated it was a fentanyl overdose. Nothing in the warrants pointed to any of the pills.

Do you have the September warrant? It's been a while since I looked at that.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Gee, why do I get the disheartening feeling that we are putting more effort/thought into drilling down into these questions than the police?

Maybe it's true. Absent of any arrest, they may have concluded that Prince did what Prince did. It's not a stretch.

If you choose to self administer "x", and have knowledge that there is a high risk that you will die from it, you are already prepared to die.

With that much fentanyl in the pills, just touching them could be dangerous, right? So they had to be touched several times by somebody, because they were put in other bottles. In fact just touching them could be deadly.

PennyPurple said:

With that much fentanyl in the pills, just touching them could be dangerous, right? So they had to be touched several times by somebody, because they were put in other bottles. In fact just touching them could be deadly.

That's a very good point. I still dont believe that what he took was in the same batch as what was found.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

With that much fentanyl in the pills, just touching them could be dangerous, right? So they had to be touched several times by somebody, because they were put in other bottles. In fact just touching them could be deadly.

That's a very good point. I still dont believe that what he took was in the same batch as what was found.

Exactly, it was his own special little stash for the moment when HE decided he was done. Control freak to the end .RIP.

PennyPurple said:

Actually, there's a bunch of articles out quoting experts who say that ODing just by touching fentanyl is impossible; it may be possible to have effects from accidentally inhaling fentanyl powder but even that is apparently quite unlikely.

-

Here's one article: The Viral Story About the... Nonsense

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

With that much fentanyl in the pills, just touching them could be dangerous, right? So they had to be touched several times by somebody, because they were put in other bottles. In fact just touching them could be deadly.

That's a very good point. I still dont believe that what he took was in the same batch as what was found.

precioux said:

PennyPurple said:

With that much fentanyl in the pills, just touching them could be dangerous, right? So they had to be touched several times by somebody, because they were put in other bottles. In fact just touching them could be deadly.

Penny, When you say "with that much fentanyl in the pills"...you're referring to what was reported,right? As there was no evidence in the warrants that the pills actually contained fentanyl. That being said, the warrants also did not evidence fentanyl patches found, nor did the warrants state fentanyl lollipops were found. The only other legal way fentanyl is administered is in a hospital through an IV. Keep in mind that in the warrant it did state to collect any drug paraphernalia on the scene. This was the same warrant that requested a swab of the hand and neck area,iirc. Another thing to keep in mind is that these are "search" warrants which are basically a form of questions...we have not seen any answers to these warrants (i.e.-the answers to the phone data dump requested)...and we probably never will. So, that leads us to basically deductive reasoning or assumptions...take your pick. Peace ~Precioux

Yes, as to what was reported from the alleged toxicology report that was supposedly leaked.

Menes said:

morningsong said:

The warrants didn't specify that in any way form or fashion, they just said that they got a call from the ME who stated it was a fentanyl overdose. Nothing in the warrants pointed to any of the pills.

Do you have the September warrant? It's been a while since I looked at that.

There is 10 & 11 in September.


Since they are referencing so many things I'll only cut & paste those bits dealing with the meds.

#10
http://www.mncourts.gov/m...dex-19.pdf



Your Affiant was made aware by witnesses that were interviewed at the scene, that Prince recently had a history of going through withdrawals, which are believed to be the result of the abuse of prescription medication. Further, Your Affiant received information from interviews conducted, that Prince’s assistants had arranged a meeting between Prince and medical professionals to assess and address Prince’s medical concerns. Your affiant learned that Prince had “passed ou ” during a flight from Atlanta, Ga to Minneapolis on Thursday 04-14-16 into Friday 04-15-16 after a concert in Atlanta. Prince’s private jet made an emergency stop at the Quad International Airport in Moline, 11. According to one of the witnesses interviewed, Prince admitted to taking 1-2 “pain pills”.


During the search warrant of Prince’s home, detectives located numerous narcotic controlled substance pills in various containers and areas of Prince’s bedroom, some of which were in a suitcase with the name tag of “Peter Bravestrong”. Inside that suitcase were several prescription bottles in the name of Kirk Johnson, Prince’s bodyguard. Your affiant believed “Peter Bravestrong” could have been an alias name for Prince that he would use when he would travel.

At a meeting on 05-03-16 at 1100 hours, a decision was made to work ajoint investigation with the United States Drug Enforcement Agency, DEA due to discovering controlled substances at Prince’s residence. In working a joint investigation with the DEA,

On Monday, 05-09-16 I learned that Sgt. Meier had received a phone call from Dr. Quin Strobel from the Midwest Medical Examiner’s Office. In speaking to Dr. Strobel, we learned that the results from Prince’s toxicology screening showed Prince had a lethal dose of the narcotic Fentanyl in his system. Your affiant along with the DEA conducted a Minnesota Prescription Monitoring Program warrant and learned that Prince Rogers Nelson had no prescriptions issued to him and that Kirk Johnson had only one, Oxycodone which was prescribed on 04-14-16 by Dr. Michael Schulenberg, the same doctor who was at the scene of Paisley Park on 04-21-16 when deputies arrived and the same doctor who admitted in a statement to Detective Chris Nelson that he had prescribed Prince a prescription for oxycodone the same day as the emergency plane landing but put the prescription in Kirk Johnson’s name for Prince’s privacy.

The investigation into Prince’s death began focusing on where Prince obtained the fentanyl and controlled narcotic prescription medication that was located in his bedroom the day of his death and who gave it to him. Your affiant learned that Prince did not have a regular doctor and that his most recent contact before Dr. 'Schulenberg was various doctors his managers would set up for him before a show so that Prince could receive a “B12 injection” to “feel better” before performing for a show.



#11
http://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/CIOMediaLibrary/Documents/Index-22.pdf



Basically the exact same wording.

The article goes on to say that it took 3 doses of Narcan to revive him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ohio-police-officer-accidentally-overdoses-fentanyl-article-1.3170821

An Ohio police officer has returned to work after an accidental fentanyl overdose sidelined him for days.

East Liverpool police officer Chris Green had just made a drug arrest when he returned to the police station and another officer noticed something on his shirt.

“He brushes it off, thinks nothing of it and then a few minutes later he passes out,” Chief John Lane told the Daily News.

As it turned out, the substance on his shirt was a small dose of fentanyl — a powerful synthetic opioid five times as strong as heroin that can get into the body through contact with the skin.

Per Billboard


One pill with the "Watson 385" stamp that was analyzed by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension tested positive for fentanyl, lidocaine and another drug. Officials found nearly two dozen pills similar to the one that was tested, the official said.


Another aspirin bottle had 64 counterfeit tablets in it. Some pills that were analyzed contained fentanyl, lidocaine and U-4770 -- a synthetic drug that is eight times more powerful than morphine.

Authorities also found a prescription bottle in someone else's name that contained 10 oxycodone pills, the official said, without revealing who was listed on the prescription. Well I guess that answers the question of Kirk's prescription.

The official said Prince had many of these pills with him on April 15 when the airplane he was on made an emergency stop in Moline, Illinois, after he fell ill from a suspected drug overdose as he was heading home from a performance in Atlanta. Prince was given two doses of Narcan, an antidote used to reverse suspected opioid overdoses, the official said.

Authorities have analyzed over 40 different items so far, including roughly 20 different bottles or pill containers, the official said.

U-4770 can be tested for in toxicology screens, but is not done routinely because it is a relatively new chemical. Presence of the drug was not tested in Prince's case, but the levels of fentanyl in his system were more than enough to be toxic, the official said.

Tests on Prince prior to his death did not show fentanyl in his system, which means he wasn't a long-time abuser of that drug, but likely took the fatal dose sometime in the 24 hours before he died, the official said.

morningsong said:

purplefam99 said:

sonshine said:

morningsong said:

Per Billboard


One pill with the "Watson 385" stamp that was analyzed by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension tested positive for fentanyl, lidocaine and another drug. Officials found nearly two dozen pills similar to the one that was tested, the official said.


Another aspirin bottle had 64 counterfeit tablets in it. Some pills that were analyzed contained fentanyl, lidocaine and U-4770 -- a synthetic drug that is eight times more powerful than morphine.

Authorities also found a prescription bottle in someone else's name that contained 10 oxycodone pills, the official said, without revealing who was listed on the prescription. Well I guess that answers the question of Kirk's prescription.

The official said Prince had many of these pills with him on April 15 when the airplane he was on made an emergency stop in Moline, Illinois, after he fell ill from a suspected drug overdose as he was heading home from a performance in Atlanta. Prince was given two doses of Narcan, an antidote used to reverse suspected opioid overdoses, the official said.

Authorities have analyzed over 40 different items so far, including roughly 20 different bottles or pill containers, the official said.

U-4770 can be tested for in toxicology screens, but is not done routinely because it is a relatively new chemical. Presence of the drug was not tested in Prince's case, but the levels of fentanyl in his system were more than enough to be toxic, the official said.

Tests on Prince prior to his death did not show fentanyl in his system which means he wasn't a long-time abuser of that drug, but likely took the fatal dose sometime in the 24 hours before he died, the official said.

I've never heard or read where this information came from (bolded above). Not that it really matters much, but what tests? Where and when and why were these supposed tests done??

Not sure 100% but in the warrants Dr. S was at PP the morning of the 21st, bringing the results of test he took on the 20th.

The new 853s and the long gone 358s look alike. Seems like reading the article, the warrant and the fact pills were found mixed together, if in some unknown way there were both present in the bottles.