Bodhitheblackdog said:

as long as you are getting the drugs into your body you need not to be sick, you are not in withdrawel...

Yes, you are right. Even if its a lower dose because they are weaning you off, you are not in withdrawel.

morningsong said:

Depends what literature is being read and its purpose/POV.

Morgaine said:

muleFunk said:

We've been saying this for almost 2 years now.

WE know this.

Instead of the focus being .... "OH Prince was a drug addict . " It should be why did he have 60 fake Vicodin pills when he could have gotten real ones and Where did they come from.

If those pills would have shown up after his death the DEA would have been on it like a duck on a June bug. Those pills haven't shown up anywhere outside of Paisley Park. I don't think a pill presser would have stopped at 60 pills.

The Watson 385s were very popular for a long time. It's possible he preferred them over other opiates/meds to treat his pain. Or not.

The warrant says they were all 853s. The media says it was 3**(I forgot, 385 or 358). Both are Watson's, both are hydrocodine with the 3** having more acetaminophen and less hydro. The major difference is 853s are currently popular to prescribe. The original 3** stopped being legally manufactured back around 2014 iirc because of it's high dose of acetaminophen and the original company was bought out.

laurarichardson said:

Yes, that's the point. The 385s are fake, they aren't made (legally) anymore. So, it makes sense that the 385s had fentanyl.
The opiates Dr S prescribed are Percocet and have a different stamp. They did not test positive for fentanyl.

Peace & Be Wild

Morgaine said:

morningsong said:

That is not what the professional literature says.

Depends what literature is being read and its purpose/POV.

You find me professional literature that says addicts only get sick when they are withdrawing due to cutting back.

Morgaine said:

laurarichardson said:

But the Fentenyl was in the hydrocodone stamped pillsl

[Edited 11/15/17 17:10pm]

Yes, that's the point. The 385s are fake, they aren't made (legally) anymore. So, it makes sense that the 385s had fentanyl. The opiates Dr S prescribed are Percocet and have a different stamp. They did not test positive for fentanyl. Peace & Be Wild

What about the 853's? That's what they found at Paisley Park, or so the warrant says, which I tend to believe.

laurarichardson said:

At the very least, he was dependent on opiates; if he wasn't he wouldn't have been going through withdrawal.

Peace & Be Wild

Morgaine said:

laurarichardson said:

But the Fentenyl was in the hydrocodone stamped pillsl

[Edited 11/15/17 17:10pm]

Yes, that's the point. The 385s are fake, they aren't made (legally) anymore. So, it makes sense that the 385s had fentanyl. The opiates Dr S prescribed are Percocet and have a different stamp. They did not test positive for fentanyl. Peace & Be Wild

So I'm guessing the media is saying that Dr. S prescribed percocet because none are listed on the warrants. So he must not have prescribed for 6 days time.

PennyPurple said:

Ok so when Kirk says he had been suffering from withdrawal that was not true???
Because he was not in withdrawal. Lowering dose is not withdrawal?
Sorry I’m confused.

Morgaine said:

I am thinking the withdrawal statement is not true, that was just something he said cause he didn’t know what else to say.

morningsong said:

The acetaminophen dosage is the same in the discontinued & the current brand at 325 mg.
I seem to recall something to do with inactive ingredients (dye, additives, etc) but I could be wrong as I can't recall any specifics.
The name 'Watson' in re opiates was/is well known for the original 10/325 yellow pills - very popular in the underground market until they stopped being made.

Peace & Be Wild

morningsong said:

There is a plethora of literature readily available online. Feel free

Morgaine said:

morningsong said:

You find me professional literature that says addicts only get sick when they are withdrawing due to cutting back.

There is a plethora of literature readily available online. Feel free

Exactly.

purplefam99 said:

PennyPurple said:

Yes, you are right. Even if its a lower dose because they are weaning you off, you are not in withdrawel.

Ok so when Kirk says he had been suffering from withdrawal that was not true??? Because he was not in withdrawal. Lowering dose is not withdrawal? Sorry I’m confused.

I don't believe anything Kirk says.

To me withdrawel is going cold turkey...from something to nothing.

Weaning off is going down to a lower dose.

PennyPurple said:

There are inconsistencies in the #s given on the warrant & that in the media. The 853/385s found at PP stopped being (legally) made about 7 years ago but whether they are stated as being 853 or 385 they're the same meds.

morningsong said:

I thought the Percocet/oxycodone was info was included in the warrants? That Dr S prescribed them for P in Kirk's name the day of the plane OD.
The inconsistency is that Dr S told the media he never prescribed any opiates for P but that's not what he told law enforcement.

purplefam99 said:

morningsong said:

Compared to what?


Look either you are sticking with facts or you're not,period. So, if you are trying to slyly imply that nobody would be able to know that Prince was a drug user his entire life and that he hid it from everyone his entire life then that's just you speculating and trying to turn a personal thought into fact. I've been a fan since day one, so yep I do think I'd be able to tell the difference in deterioration over 4 decades. Keith has deteriated in his many decades.

I agree I have been a fan since 1978 and I think I would have noticed as well if He was long term user. I’m not going to give him choir boy status, I’ll give Him some here and there experimentation. And some overindulgience with wine. But I think his issue with any addiction was around 2010 or when we see him physically decline. That is my opinion. I will say I didn’t think Whitney was a druggie until she married bobby that was Confirmation for me. Or when I saw her on an awards show sitting in the audience Dressed like salt n peppa.

We know who the hardest working man in show business was... James Brown. Never was a doubt. Do you know his history of drug use in one form or another since 1988? Did you know he would get high before and after shows consistently? If you saw him perform ,you would never have guessed it.

[Edited 11/15/17 18:13pm]

Morgaine said:

morningsong said:

The warrant says they were all 853s. The media says it was 3**(I forgot, 385 or 358). Both are Watson's, both are hydrocodine with the 3** having more acetaminophen and less hydro. The major difference is 853s are currently popular to prescribe. The original 3** stopped being legally manufactured back around 2014 iirc because of it's high dose of acetaminophen and the original company was bought out.

The acetaminophen dosage is the same in the discontinued & the current brand at 325 mg. I seem to recall something to do with inactive ingredients (dye, additives, etc) but I could be wrong as I can't recall any specifics. The name 'Watson' in re opiates was/is well known for the original 10/325 yellow pills - very popular in the underground market until they stopped being made. Peace & Be Wild

I think these are the old ones the media was talking about.





These had 7.5/500

Since I'm not at home I can't readily pull up any articles to make double sure.

purplefam99 said:

Just from the Narcan shots, he'd have gone into immediate withdrawal. And I find it extremely tough to believe he only took 1-2 pills & it took two shots to revive him. Most often, opiate intoxicatation causes the individual to vomit unless combined with other meds/drugs. He just nodded out, according to Judith.
I personally believe he had chronic pain from performing 30+ years. Anytime a person takes any type of meds on a daily/regular basis, the body (and mind) become habituated. If one decreases the dosage enough or stops taking it, their body goes into withdrawal. Doesn't matter if it's Advair or Oxycodone.

Morgaine said:

morningsong said:

So I'm guessing the media is saying that Dr. S prescribed percocet because none are listed on the warrants. So he must not have prescribed for 6 days time.

I thought the Percocet/oxycodone was info was included in the warrants? That Dr S prescribed them for P in Kirk's name the day of the plane OD. The inconsistency is that Dr S told the media he never prescribed any opiates for P but that's not what he told law enforcement.

The warrants don't specify the brand or make of the pill that was prescribed on the 14th. But the warrant issued on 4/21/16 list all that was found in PP, and none of them were percocet or U-47700.

Dr. S. prescribed them for Kirk, not Prince on the 14th. Also, some other non-controlled stuff in Kirk's name on the 20th.

Morgaine said:

purplefam99 said:

I am thinking the withdrawal statement is not true, that was just something he said cause he didn’t know what else to say.

Just from the Narcan shots, he'd have gone into immediate withdrawal. And I find it extremely tough to believe he only took 1-2 pills & it took two shots to revive him. Most often, opiate intoxicatation causes the individual to vomit unless combined with other meds/drugs. He just nodded out, according to Judith. I personally believe he had chronic pain from performing 30+ years. Anytime a person takes any type of meds on a daily/regular basis, the body (and mind) become habituated. If one decreases the dosage enough or stops taking it, their body goes into withdrawal. Doesn't matter if it's Advair or Oxycodone.

Which usually means doubling up in efforts to reach that summit of a high when they resume .

Menes said:

purplefam99 said:

morningsong said: I agree I have been a fan since 1978 and I think I would have noticed as well if He was long term user. I’m not going to give him choir boy status, I’ll give Him some here and there experimentation. And some overindulgience with wine. But I think his issue with any addiction was around 2010 or when we see him physically decline. That is my opinion. I will say I didn’t think Whitney was a druggie until she married bobby that was Confirmation for me. Or when I saw her on an awards show sitting in the audience Dressed like salt n peppa.

We know who the hardest working man in show business was... James Brown. Never was a doubt. Do you know his history of drug use in one form or another since 1988? Did you know he would get high before and after shows consistently? If you saw him perform ,you would never have guessed it.

[Edited 11/15/17 18:13pm]

Morgaine said:

purplefam99 said:

I am thinking the withdrawal statement is not true, that was just something he said cause he didn’t know what else to say.

Just from the Narcan shots, he'd have gone into immediate withdrawal. And I find it extremely tough to believe he only took 1-2 pills & it took two shots to revive him. Most often, opiate intoxicatation causes the individual to vomit unless combined with other meds/drugs. He just nodded out, according to Judith. I personally believe he had chronic pain from performing 30+ years. Anytime a person takes any type of meds on a daily/regular basis, the body (and mind) become habituated. If one decreases the dosage enough or stops taking it, their body goes into withdrawal. Doesn't matter if it's Advair or Oxycodone.

I said the same thing about the Narcan shots that it would put him in immediate withdrawal, but of course somebody (who likes to argue) said that wasn't true because the shot still left some of the opiates in his system. They also said he only had 1 shot, even though it was reported that he had 2 shots.

morningsong said:

Those that I was referring to are bright yellow, stamped 853, & have 10 mg hydrocodone & 325 mg acetaminophen. They have been discontinued. Their image is here:
https://www.drugs.com/imp...10141.html
Generally, hydrocodone is known as either Vicodin or Norco. Vicodin has 500 or more mg acetaminophen and Norco has 325 my acetaminophen.

Peace & Be Wild

Morgaine said:

PennyPurple said:

What about the 853's? That's what they found at Paisley Park, or so the warrant says, which I tend to believe.

There are inconsistencies in the #s given on the warrant & that in the media. The 853/385s found at PP stopped being (legally) made about 7 years ago but whether they are stated as being 853 or 385 they're the same meds.

853s are quite popular and are still made by a different company, they are 10/325. The 385s were completely discontinued, they are 7.5/500. So no they are not the same medication.

Menes said:

Morgaine said:

purplefam99 said: Just from the Narcan shots, he'd have gone into immediate withdrawal. And I find it extremely tough to believe he only took 1-2 pills & it took two shots to revive him. Most often, opiate intoxicatation causes the individual to vomit unless combined with other meds/drugs. He just nodded out, according to Judith. I personally believe he had chronic pain from performing 30+ years. Anytime a person takes any type of meds on a daily/regular basis, the body (and mind) become habituated. If one decreases the dosage enough or stops taking it, their body goes into withdrawal. Doesn't matter if it's Advair or Oxycodone.

Which usually means doubling up in efforts to reach that summit of a high when they resume .

Exactly what I pointed out earlier: the most dangerous time for an addict, the period in which they are most likely to OD is right at the point when their consumption is at the lowest. I am sure this was explained in detail to Prince in the hospital in Moline and was why the hospital recommended HE NOT check himself out. But he did.....and rode his bike, patted his new purple piano and had a little party...

Morgaine said:

Those that I was referring to are bright yellow, stamped 853, & have 10 mg hydrocodone & 325 mg acetaminophen. They have been discontinued. Their image is here: https://www.drugs.com/imp...10141.html Generally, hydrocodone is known as either Vicodin or Norco. Vicodin has 500 or more mg acetaminophen and Norco has 325 my acetaminophen. Peace & Be Wild

But Vicodin with 500mg of acetaminophen is no longer. Now the highest mgs of acetaminophen is 325mg.

Menes said:

Either that or the person uses the same amount and unintentionally ODs. It's actually quite common.
This was interesting information I found on opium.org about Narcan.
"Naloxone on the other hand has a half life of 2 to 12 hours. This means that it takes the body between 48 to 84 hours to remove it from its system. Complete blocking of opiates continues until approximately 24 hours after a person takes Suboxone."

PennyPurple said:

I just posted info that refutes that.

Morgaine said:

morningsong said:

I think these are the old ones the media was talking about.





These had 7.5/500

Since I'm not at home I can't readily pull up any articles to make double sure.

Those that I was referring to are bright yellow, stamped 853, & have 10 mg hydrocodone & 325 mg acetaminophen. They have been discontinued. Their image is here: https://www.drugs.com/imp...10141.html Generally, hydrocodone is known as either Vicodin or Norco. Vicodin has 500 or more mg acetaminophen and Norco has 325 my acetaminophen. Peace & Be Wild

We are reading the same thing.


Yeah the new ones are white stamped the same and are still 10/325.



This pill with imprint "WATSON 853" is White, Capsule-shape and has been identified as Acetaminophen and hydrocodone bitartrate 325 mg / 10 mg. It is supplied by Watson Laboratories, Inc..

Watson Pharmaceuticals, Inc.,
is now part of Allergan plc (March 2015)