just1lousydime said:

i really, really, really hate '7'

i also dont like a lot of prince's 'funky' songs (except my s/n)...i prefer 'ballad' prince and 'rock' prince

prince is a genius, and i like a lot of his other stuff, but he was at his best when wendy & lisa had their influence. they filled out some of his minimalist tendencies. he never reached that level before or since. SOTT/Dream Factory, PR, Parade, ATWIAD>>>>any other prince albums

thenewposition said:

i really, really, really hate '7'

i also dont like a lot of prince's 'funky' songs (except my s/n)...i prefer 'ballad' prince and 'rock' prince

prince is a genius, and i like a lot of his other stuff, but he was at his best when wendy & lisa had their influence. they filled out some of his minimalist tendencies. he never reached that level before or since. SOTT/Dream Factory, PR, Parade, ATWIAD>>>>any other prince albums

I really don't see how though, you know in the PR dvd, W&L discuss their contribution to the song Purple Rain, it didn't seem like much of a contribution, it was very minor. If all of their "contributions" are like that then I would say that they don't really deserve much credit. Any musician you work with will bring their own set of idiosycracies and styles, that's why they fill out paperwork so that they don't try to claim they created more than they did later. You know, Bruce Springsteen is very good but the E. Street Band make him great, they get no songwriting credits or any of that, now that's a legitimate case where you could say an artists best work is done with lots of collaboration. I don't think it's ever been quite like that with Prince, although others have said he lifts everything from the people around him.

Many songs of For You and Prince'79 are just plain BAD and amateurish

Dirty Mind is probably the ultimate Prince album. Not necessarily his most famous, though...

Controversy is NOT a masterpiece. It has some definitive gems, but the album is flawed.

1999 is great, but the unreleased material is even better. He should have released a direct sequel in 1983 with songs like Irresistible Bitch, Lust U Always, Do Yourself a Favour, Moonbeam Levels, etc.

Many B-Sides of the ATWIAD singles are actually better than the album-tracks that made it to the album

A movie for Parade wasn't necessary...

Lovesexy is the first real disappointment of his career...

Batman is way funnier & more enjoyable than Lovesexy...

I only dig 4 songs off GF: Question of U, Joy In Repetition, Thieves in the Temple and E&F

LoveSymbol is the best Prince album of the 90s

There's a black hole between the years 1996 and 2004. I don't exactly know what happened. I've heard that Prince retired or something like that until the Musicology comeback...

3121 is his best album since TGE

20Ten is an excellent album, the kind of album that we all wanted. Short, sweet and electro-funky. Haters will hate, poor souls...

just1lousydime said:

Detroit said:

Mine would be:

1. Wendy and Lisa weren't as important to Prince's music as what some say.

He made some great music before and after W&L.

2. Dez is a far better guitarist than Wendy.

3. Adding Tony M to the band was crap. If Prince wanted rappers, he should've hired real rappers like he did years later with Chuck D and Doug E Fresh.

fixed it for ya

The way you've rephrased it is certainly more controversial. He obviously made some great music before Wendy, but how much great music did he make before Lisa?

mozfonky said:

thenewposition said:

i really, really, really hate '7'

i also dont like a lot of prince's 'funky' songs (except my s/n)...i prefer 'ballad' prince and 'rock' prince

prince is a genius, and i like a lot of his other stuff, but he was at his best when wendy & lisa had their influence. they filled out some of his minimalist tendencies. he never reached that level before or since. SOTT/Dream Factory, PR, Parade, ATWIAD>>>>any other prince albums

I really don't see how though, you know in the PR dvd, W&L discuss their contribution to the song Purple Rain, it didn't seem like much of a contribution, it was very minor. If all of their "contributions" are like that then I would say that they don't really deserve much credit. Any musician you work with will bring their own set of idiosycracies and styles, that's why they fill out paperwork so that they don't try to claim they created more than they did later. You know, Bruce Springsteen is very good but the E. Street Band make him great, they get no songwriting credits or any of that, now that's a legitimate case where you could say an artists best work is done with lots of collaboration. I don't think it's ever been quite like that with Prince, although others have said he lifts everything from the people around him.

thats why i said 'influence' instead of 'contributions'...im pretty sure we will never be able to pinpoint who contributed what to where (even they prob cant anymore), but i have been in the studio with musicians, and i know when they are creating together, especially when there's mutual respect, then one influences the other and vice versa. even if all contributions dont make it to paper.

to me, the specifics dont matter. im pretty sure it was probably all still mostly prince...but i do know the prince of the mid to late 80s has an audible difference than the prince before or after, so i count that up to wendy and lisa's influence. and that period accounts for 70% of my favorite music by Prince

also, i've never seen the Purple Rain dvd, and im pretty sure you are generally a more knowledgable fan than I, so dont think i'm arguing with you...in fact i'd be extremely happy if you could enlighten me further on W&L's contributions to the music of that period

The most innovative Prince sound was that of pre-Purple Rain days. That's when he forged his own unique sound that was truly his own. Everything after this was experimental 'oh look at me' i can play different genres pretention. This is why he doesn't have a wider appeal because so much of what he does was for his own ego self-gratification and not for what the public actually dug. The exception here is proabably SOTT.

Maybe the downhill slide started with For You. I mean, before he had a recording contract or any superstar expectations to live up to, he could just make whatever music he liked. Actually, even his involvement with 94 East may have forced him to compromise his style somewhat. The true classic period was probably even earlier, when he was learning to play the instruments. Maybe someday we will find a tape of Prince's first guitar lesson, and then we will hear what REAL musical brilliance sounds like.

thenewposition said:

mozfonky said:

I really don't see how though, you know in the PR dvd, W&L discuss their contribution to the song Purple Rain, it didn't seem like much of a contribution, it was very minor. If all of their "contributions" are like that then I would say that they don't really deserve much credit. Any musician you work with will bring their own set of idiosycracies and styles, that's why they fill out paperwork so that they don't try to claim they created more than they did later. You know, Bruce Springsteen is very good but the E. Street Band make him great, they get no songwriting credits or any of that, now that's a legitimate case where you could say an artists best work is done with lots of collaboration. I don't think it's ever been quite like that with Prince, although others have said he lifts everything from the people around him.

thats why i said 'influence' instead of 'contributions'...im pretty sure we will never be able to pinpoint who contributed what to where (even they prob cant anymore), but i have been in the studio with musicians, and i know when they are creating together, especially when there's mutual respect, then one influences the other and vice versa. even if all contributions dont make it to paper.

to me, the specifics dont matter. im pretty sure it was probably all still mostly prince...but i do know the prince of the mid to late 80s has an audible difference than the prince before or after, so i count that up to wendy and lisa's influence. and that period accounts for 70% of my favorite music by Prince

also, i've never seen the Purple Rain dvd, and im pretty sure you are generally a more knowledgable fan than I, so dont think i'm arguing with you...in fact i'd be extremely happy if you could enlighten me further on W&L's contributions to the music of that period

well, in terms of how much W&L contributed, I don't know, that's my point. They must have been something for Prince to write Old Friends 4 Sale where he describes the people around him telling him he didn't need the new people to "take you higher" in a tone that says he knew better. Or even songs like "In This Bed I Scream". There have been stories right from "Prince" that he ripped off Andre Cymone, then The Time and would record all rehearsals so he could steal parts later. So, it's really really hard to say, no one is an island and I'm sure W&L contributed but most likely no more than all the rest of the more talented guys around him. Prince has said that Lisa plays chords in unique ways and uses one finger to hold 2 notes and explained that as one of the things he liked, but the Minneapolis sound with that unique chording was all over the Time's albums too. So who knows.

I truly love every one of Prince's albums and every song.

purplemajesty23 said:

I truly love every one of Prince's albums and every song.

That's probably the most controversial opinion of all.

Rhyging said:

I never really liked "Take Me With U", average at best in my opinion.

electricberet said:

purplemajesty23 said:

I truly love every one of Prince's albums and every song.

That's probably the most controversial opinion of all.

It probably lol, but is really is true.

purplemajesty23 said:

electricberet said:

That's probably the most controversial opinion of all.

It probably lol, but is really is true.

I love the fact that he always does his work, even if objectively we feel differently about it, he keeps moving, he has never been less than competent with the things he puts out. i remember remarking that Outkast's "Dracula's Wedding" was a great tune, Princelike but as far as them rivaling Prince in any kind of way, Prince would never, ever have let some of the mistakes that were on the record get to the public, minor yes, but such standards, Prince has never let slip.

mozfonky said:

purplemajesty23 said:

It probably lol, but is really is true.

I love the fact that he always does his work, even if objectively we feel differently about it, he keeps moving, he has never been less than competent with the things he puts out. i remember remarking that Outkast's "Dracula's Wedding" was a great tune, Princelike but as far as them rivaling Prince in any kind of way, Prince would never, ever have let some of the mistakes that were on the record get to the public, minor yes, but such standards, Prince has never let slip.

Prince let it slip in 2009 with the release of LotusFlower which included audibly bad editing on "From the Lotus..." into "Boom", actually. Hell, there's a litany of those things that exist and I know its been discussed here.

Spinlight said:

mozfonky said:

I love the fact that he always does his work, even if objectively we feel differently about it, he keeps moving, he has never been less than competent with the things he puts out. i remember remarking that Outkast's "Dracula's Wedding" was a great tune, Princelike but as far as them rivaling Prince in any kind of way, Prince would never, ever have let some of the mistakes that were on the record get to the public, minor yes, but such standards, Prince has never let slip.

Prince let it slip in 2009 with the release of LotusFlower which included audibly bad editing on "From the Lotus..." into "Boom", actually. Hell, there's a litany of those things that exist and I know its been discussed here.

no, not like i'm talking about, listen to Dracula's wedding and point something out in Prince's work similarly bad and i'll gladly change my mind.

Joe Tyler said:

vitriol said:

KoolEaze said:

Really?

Could you elaborate on that? I thought this was widely regarded as one of his biggest career mistakes. Even some people who´ve worked with him said so. Don´t you think that the album and the tour would have supported each other ? I understand why the Lovesexy tour wasn´t very successful in the USA but SOTT was much more accessible ( and probably much cheaper, too).

I know I'm quite alone on this, that's why I considered it a 'controversial opinion'.

Despite some wrong choices for singles (an usual thing for Prince) the album was huge in Europe and not so much in the USA.

I think there are 'American-oriented' and 'European-oriented' tours. Not that I think that the Purple Rain Tour wouldn't have been successful had it reached Europe, but I see it as an 'ultra-american phenomenon'. Same for the 96, 97, 99, 2000 and 2001 tours.

Most average americans were disappointed with ATWIAD, they would have really wanted a real Purple Rain-2 (and 3, and 4...). They're more into the 'show' aspect of a tour than into the 'art'.

It's more of a personal hunch than of an empirically demonstrable fact. I just 'think' the SOTT tour wouldn't have been huge in the USA and that might've somewhat killed the magic of the era.

I also think that the Parade tour was more oriented towards Europe and Japan than towards home.

Wow,that really is a controversial opinion I think not touring the States with SOTT was one of Prince's biggest career mistakes.In the fall of '87,he had two Top ten hit singles ("U Got The Look" and "ICNTTPOYM") and so much momentum....a tour at that time would have been HUGE!

^Again, I'm sure it wouldn't. It was not a tour for American taste.

vitriol said:

^Again, I'm sure it wouldn't. It was not a tour for American taste.

I'm glad that he at least gave us the concert film.It's not the same as 'being there' but it was a nice substitute

this thread is fun

The SOTT concert film is Prince's best movie.

Prince should have collaborated with Rick James in the 80s (on a kickass funk song)

Prince should have never let Vanity get away.She would have been amazing in 'Purple Rain' and on a second Vanity 6 album.

"Money Don't Matter 2 Night" sounds nice but lyrically,it makes very little sense.

just1lousydime said:

Prince's output in the last 10 years is better than what was on the charts.

True.

Genesia said:

Family Name is anti-Semitic.

Was saying this just the other day.

chopingard said:

Genesia said:

Family Name is anti-Semitic.

Was saying this just the other day.

Ya'll need to look out because any talk about P being anti-Semitic will get you accused of being Mossad.

prince hits women!!!! like father like son!!!

ParanoidAndroid said:

Romeoblu said:

20ten is a better album than The Gold Experience.

WINNER!

Controversial or not, I agree with Romeoblu. TGE -although certainly not a bad album- is vastly overrated in my eyes, I'd rather listen to 20Ten personally.

JoeTyler said:

Many songs of For You and Prince'79 are just plain BAD and amateurish

Dirty Mind is probably the ultimate Prince album. Not necessarily his most famous, though...

Controversy is NOT a masterpiece. It has some definitive gems, but the album is flawed.

1999 is great, but the unreleased material is even better. He should have released a direct sequel in 1983 with songs like Irresistible Bitch, Lust U Always, Do Yourself a Favour, Moonbeam Levels, etc.

Many B-Sides of the ATWIAD singles are actually better than the album-tracks that made it to the album

A movie for Parade wasn't necessary...

Lovesexy is the first real disappointment of his career...

Batman is way funnier & more enjoyable than Lovesexy...

I only dig 4 songs off GF: Question of U, Joy In Repetition, Thieves in the Temple and E&F

LoveSymbol is the best Prince album of the 90s

There's a black hole between the years 1996 and 2004. I don't exactly know what happened. I've heard that Prince retired or something like that until the Musicology comeback...

3121 is his best album since TGE

20Ten is an excellent album, the kind of album that we all wanted. Short, sweet and electro-funky. Haters will hate, poor souls...

I agree with most of this!