ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

lol...

I want babies. Hell, that's something I look forward to. But finding the right guy..

Oh well, I keep gettin' asked "Why you still single?", "Why don't you have a man?", or the more unusual question some dumbass woman asked my father "did you sell her into marriage yet?!"

Mutha...

I nearly slapped her for that.

i don't think this even warrants a comment. this speaks for itself.

HotGritz said:

Funny how people ask "when are you having kids" or "why don't you have any kids" but rarely do they ask "have you ever considered adoption?"

just a thought.

EXACTLY!!!

MJJstudent said:

well... at least people here know their limitations.

i happen to love children more than anything, and i hope to have some in my life to raise sooner than later... the only thing is - i have NO desire to give birth, and i don't really have money to adopt. i looked into foster parenting, but when i did that, my living situation wasn't the best.... it still isn't according to the guidelines they look for.

where i work, i am around A LOT of babies... sometimes i get extremely sad because i really want a baby. it kills me sometimes.

I don't understand why other people can't see that, it's so simple. Plus I deal with mental illness and take meds in addition to what I wrote, I do not want that to pose any risk to a child either or for me to feel extra stress and pressure than I already do and have that impact my health. See, I have many valid reasons for not wanting children Yet I know someone stupid that thinks having a child is like growing up, what an idiot.

alphastreet said:

MJJstudent said:

well... at least people here know their limitations.

i happen to love children more than anything, and i hope to have some in my life to raise sooner than later... the only thing is - i have NO desire to give birth, and i don't really have money to adopt. i looked into foster parenting, but when i did that, my living situation wasn't the best.... it still isn't according to the guidelines they look for.

where i work, i am around A LOT of babies... sometimes i get extremely sad because i really want a baby. it kills me sometimes.

I don't understand why other people can't see that, it's so simple. Plus I deal with mental illness and take meds in addition to what I wrote, I do not want that to pose any risk to a child either or for me to feel extra stress and pressure than I already do and have that impact my health. See, I have many valid reasons for not wanting children Yet I know someone stupid that thinks having a child is like growing up, what an idiot.

hhhhmmmm... i can point that person to a few immature people raising kids.

yes indeed... you have to know where you are in life before you bring someone else into it. people look at me all the time and tell me i have issues because i don't want to give birth, despite wanting really badly to be a mother. so i'm on the other end of the spectrum.

MJJstudent said:

alphastreet said:

I don't understand why other people can't see that, it's so simple. Plus I deal with mental illness and take meds in addition to what I wrote, I do not want that to pose any risk to a child either or for me to feel extra stress and pressure than I already do and have that impact my health. See, I have many valid reasons for not wanting children Yet I know someone stupid that thinks having a child is like growing up, what an idiot.

hhhhmmmm... i can point that person to a few immature people raising kids.

yes indeed... you have to know where you are in life before you bring someone else into it. people look at me all the time and tell me i have issues because i don't want to give birth, despite wanting really badly to be a mother. so i'm on the other end of the spectrum.

I think it would be a great experience too, but just not for me. Definitely doesn't make me a terrible female, I would feel like more of a terrible human being if I was not being true to myself due to peer pressure and regretted it later on. And then people wonder why there is so much child abuse and neglect (cause of pressure) ....shame.

[Edited 4/29/11 0:51am]

alphastreet said:

MJJstudent said:

hhhhmmmm... i can point that person to a few immature people raising kids.

yes indeed... you have to know where you are in life before you bring someone else into it. people look at me all the time and tell me i have issues because i don't want to give birth, despite wanting really badly to be a mother. so i'm on the other end of the spectrum.

I think it would be a great experience too, but just not for me. Definitely doesn't make me a terrible female, I would feel like more of a terrible human being if I was not being true to myself due to peer pressure and regretted it later on. And then people wonder why there is so much child abuse and neglect (cause of pressure) ....shame.

[Edited 4/29/11 0:51am]

yeah, i agree...

Too many people have children for the wrong reasons, and a lot of them should never have procreated at all. I knew better...

[Edited 5/3/11 7:19am]

jaimestarr79 said:

I tell people that me and my wife choose not to have kids..... and people look at me all crazy:-o . Some people just quickly judge us that we are bad people or something because we don't want kids. I really like kids, but with my busy lifestyle I don't feel that I have the time to raise kids. I don't want to have kids if I can't give it a 100%. I just don't know why people don't understand? People seemed to be so rude about the subject. I'm able to have kids... I just don't want them at this point in my life. I think it is ok not to want kids. Does anybody else on the org have the same problem?

That is the problem with some people, they always want to tell others how to live. I think that you and your wife are very wise to not want kids. Having children is a big responsibility. Tell those people if they want you to have kids they have to: help pay for EVERYTHING and they will babysit, etc. They will shut up after that.

I never wanted kids either. Never really cared for them. Even when I was a kid, I couldn't stand being around them. I always preferred hanging out with their parents.

Having kids can either turn out to be a joy or a complete and total nightmare. For some reason, people don't like to talk about the ugly side of being a parent. And if you wind up with an ass-hole for a kid (and I know plenty!), being a parent is not going to be as joyous as people make it out to be.

My son is 27, and wants no children. He always says "I want a wife and my dog" He has a dog, now on to the wife!!! He is a 27 year old professional, a real catch. Can't wait to see what lies ahead of him.

Kids ruin everything..well everything that my cat cannot

PaisleyPark5083 said:

My son is 27, and wants no children. He always says "I want a wife and my dog" He has a dog, now on to the wife!!! He is a 27 year old professional, a real catch. Can't wait to see what lies ahead of him.

Just save him from that stupid idea of getting him a wife.

Really.

Singles without kids are generally more happy than any other breed on earth!

Wish him the best

That is not a marriage

alphastreet said:

MJJstudent said:

well... at least people here know their limitations.

i happen to love children more than anything, and i hope to have some in my life to raise sooner than later... the only thing is - i have NO desire to give birth, and i don't really have money to adopt. i looked into foster parenting, but when i did that, my living situation wasn't the best.... it still isn't according to the guidelines they look for.

where i work, i am around A LOT of babies... sometimes i get extremely sad because i really want a baby. it kills me sometimes.

I don't understand why other people can't see that, it's so simple. Plus I deal with mental illness and take meds in addition to what I wrote, I do not want that to pose any risk to a child either or for me to feel extra stress and pressure than I already do and have that impact my health. See, I have many valid reasons for not wanting children Yet I know someone stupid that thinks having a child is like growing up, what an idiot.

I tell people I never wanted to impose a childhood on anyone.

MJJstudent said:

alphastreet said:

I don't understand why other people can't see that, it's so simple. Plus I deal with mental illness and take meds in addition to what I wrote, I do not want that to pose any risk to a child either or for me to feel extra stress and pressure than I already do and have that impact my health. See, I have many valid reasons for not wanting children Yet I know someone stupid that thinks having a child is like growing up, what an idiot.

hhhhmmmm... i can point that person to a few immature people raising kids.

yes indeed... you have to know where you are in life before you bring someone else into it. people look at me all the time and tell me i have issues because i don't want to give birth, despite wanting really badly to be a mother. so i'm on the other end of the spectrum.

Have a C-section delivery. Go have that baby and be happy.

PaisleyPark5083 said:

My son is 27, and wants no children. He always says "I want a wife and my dog" He has a dog, now on to the wife!!! He is a 27 year old professional, a real catch. Can't wait to see what lies ahead of him.

He doesn't want a wife, he wants live-in sex. A long term girlfriend fits better than a wife.

SUPRMAN said:

ZombieKitten said:

As an experience (including the 6 weeks of recovery time after major abdominal surgery) a regular birth was for me far less traumatic than c-section SUPRMAN said:

Have a C-section delivery. Go have that baby and be happy.

Ouch. I stand corrected.

ZombieKitten said:

As an experience (including the 6 weeks of recovery time after major abdominal surgery) a regular birth was for me far less traumatic than c-section SUPRMAN said:

Have a C-section delivery. Go have that baby and be happy.

My brother described his wife's c-section, he said she was pretty much turned inside out!

NDRU said:

ZombieKitten said:

As an experience (including the 6 weeks of recovery time after major abdominal surgery) a regular birth was for me far less traumatic than c-section SUPRMAN said:

My brother described his wife's c-section, he said she was pretty much turned inside out!

Sort of a normal labor so to speak.

Think about it.

How happy would you be to get a baby out of your d**k?

dJJ said:

NDRU said:

My brother described his wife's c-section, he said she was pretty much turned inside out!

Sort of a normal labor so to speak.

Think about it.

How happy would you be to get a baby out of your d**k?

That sounds like a hyena delivery.

DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE EATING!

The Private Bits of Gregarious Carnivores

Posted: March 10, 2011 | Author: potto

Female spotted hyenas give birth through the tip of a penis-like clitoris. That sounds unpleasant, right? It’s also quite damaging. First-time birth through this “peniform” clitoris is long and difficult and results in the clitoral opening tearing when the relatively large, open-eyed pup (with teeth and claws) is born. Quite often, the first birth through this pseudopenis also results in the the death of the pup. So, uh, why is it there?

Hyena Baby: Arno and Louise Wildlife via Flickr

Spotted hyenas aren’t the only mammals with masculinized female genitalia. Female moles, civets and even some “less thoroughly investigated” primates have masculinized genitalia for at least some part of their lives. Some insects do too. Female spotted hyenas, though, have the most masculinzed genitalia of mammals. Externally, the outer labia are fused and form a kind of fake scrotum. The clitoris is enlarged and can become erect like a regular penis. The female urinates, copulates and gives birth through this. Delivery is difficult:

Clitoral delivery involves an unusual right-angled trajectory through the pelvic region. Consequently, the birth canal of a normal spotted hyena is both longer and more circuitous than that of similar sized mammals. These structural constraints clearly contribute to the complicated and protracted labour in this species and probably account for some cases of maternal death associated with parturition. (2)

Copulation, on the other hand, is simply awkward and requires not insignificant forbearance on the part of the female.

Internally, everything is what you would expect based on your average female carnivore. Essentially, the genitalia just looks and seems masculine externally. Again, why? According to Davis and Story (1949):

Nearly every investigator who has studied the female genitalia of the spotted hyena has made a more or less careful comparison and homologization of its parts with the external genitalia of the male. Impressed by the astonishingly close correspondence he was able to demonstrate, each has then proceeded to “explain” it. The interpretations follow fairly closely the changing vogues of research in experimental biology, and the final result is more than a little reminiscent of the fable of the blind men and the elephant. (1)

The interpretations Davis and Story recount are previous researchers calling it “arrested development”, trying to compare it with antlers in female reindeer, reducing it to a “freak of nature” kind of hermaphroditism and, finally, relating it to possibly too much “androgenic substance” (hormones like testosterone) and also maybe too little estrogenic substance (like estrogen).

This last idea, related to androgen exposure, has been the prevailing theory for a while: the development of sexual structures runs on a generically feminine program unless androgens are present. In developing males, these androgens would come from the fetal testes and would set in motion the whole male program. During the late stages of a spotted hyena pregnancy, levels of androgens increase, getting close to levels found in males. So, female as well as male hyenas are exposed to androgens during development.

There are some theories as to why this would be so. First, it is important to consider that social dominance is important in hyena society. They are “gregarious carnivores” who live in clans of various sizes (from 6 to 90 individuals). They mostly scavenge food or work together to take down larger prey. Eating is a very competitive activity. A kill goes quickly and who gets to eat first is directly related to the dominance hierarchy. An individual’s place in this hierarchy is related to parentage – children of a highly ranked female will themselves have high rank. This is true of both males and females. However, males leave the clan after weaning and enter new clans at the lowest possible rung of the dominance ladder. Females in these clans are, therefore, always dominant to males.

Spotted Hyena: Arno and Louise Wildlife via Flickr

Some theories as to why androgens are so high during development are related to the need for aggression. Androgens are closely associated with aggression which is thought to aid individuals at kill sites and in the “competitive nursing” of newborns who sometimes kill their siblings. The young of highly ranked females are given priority at kill sites – and are often able to be weaned earlier because of it. All this is thought to lead to better survival – along with some interesting female genitalia as a byproduct. The benefits of the increased androgens may very well outweigh the downsides (protracted labor and loss of first-born pups) and this will allow the trait to be passed on. So, the development of masculinized external genitalia in female spotted hyenas, then, was postulated to be a byproduct – a side-effect – of high levels of androgens present during fetal development

This sounds perfectly reasonable, except that when researchers experimentally treated hyenas with anti-androgens – chemicals that blocked the effects of the androgens present, they found that much of the masculine appearance of the female genitalia remained. The female’s penis-like clitoris was a bit shorter and rounder and the clitoral opening was more flexible. But it was still there. (Incidentally, in females, the cost of clitoral delivery – tearing of the opening and infant death – disappeared after treatment with anti-androgens. On the other hand, males exposed to anti-androgens – who also ended up with somewhat shorter, rounder-ended penises – during eight years of study, were unable to impregnate a single female.)

It seems, then, that there may be another reason for the masculinization – one that is more directly adaptive for the female. One theory is that having a “penis” may have allowed females to take part in the hyena greeting ceremony which involves sniffing of privates and the display of erections to show submission. This theory reminds me of those boxy business suits women wore the ’80s – as though being vaguely man-shaped made access to the greeting ceremony a little easier.

Another theory is that it allows more female control over mating. And this brings us to fossas.

Fossa: San Diego Shooter via Flickr

Female fossas also have masculine-looking external genitalia. However, they only have it temporarily – from about 12 months of age, right about when a fossa leaves her mother, until about 3 or 4 years of age, when she reaches sexual maturity. During this time, a female fossa’s genitals will appear masculine – complete with spikes and an orange discharge. In fossas there are no especially high aggression levels nor are there especially high levels of androgens. Also, unlike hyenas, fossas are solitary. So, theories that masculinization is related to social needs like female dominance or participation in greeting ceremonies do not fit with the fossa’s lifestyle. The time period in which her genitalia appears masculine coincides with the life stage in which a female fossa is both on her own and not quite ready for intercourse. Masculinization could signal to males that she is not a potential mate or it could simply make penetration too much of a hassle. In any case, it is believed to prevent, to some degree, sexual harassment from males which can otherwise lead to injuries or fatalities.

It is, of course, not necessary that the development of similar traits in two separate species have the same or even similar explanations. Many large animals have large brains because they are large, while humans developed large brains for entirely different reasons. However, the ability to wield more control over mating may have benefited the hyena – particularly the hyena female – greatly.

Although they tend to get a bad rap, hyenas live in social units not unlike many primate groups. Social relationships are valued and individuals recognize each other and form affiliations. Female control over mating may have made it necessary for males to establish a relationship with them before mating can occur. And this may also explain male submission to females and the relative lack of aggression between males. Clearly the whole issue hasn’t been resolved yet, though. While some masculinization occurs without help from androgens and may be the result of direct adapation, androgens do exhibit some affects on genitalia, and account for much of the reproductive “disadvantages” associated with masculinized genitalia. It’s still an open and very, very interesting question.

http://terriblepunyrightn...arnivores/

They best thing you can do for your child is to not have him/her if you don't want to.

I can tell you from experience, mothers who did not want to be mothers don't make good/happy mothers.

I don't know why. That's just silly. If you don't want 'em... you just don't don't want 'em. I want 'em now but who knows how I will feel later. I say its better to know now them have 'em and then don't want them.

NDRU said:

ZombieKitten said:

As an experience (including the 6 weeks of recovery time after major abdominal surgery) a regular birth was for me far less traumatic than c-section SUPRMAN said:

My brother described his wife's c-section, he said she was pretty much turned inside out!

Leo told me it looked like they were very roughly rummaging around in a sock drawer, yanking me every which way - no wonder I felt like EVERYTHING was bruised after I was in the hospital on morphine and other drugs for a few days

Pushing out Max was quick, and I was up and about in an hour, able to shower myself and go home the next day, no drugs!

jaimestarr79 said:

I know it has to be really tough for a women. Some people act like how can a woman not a child. This is something my wife has to deal with all the time.

Yep, women definitely get it worse than men. Never understood that. Isn't the goal in life to do what makes you happy?

SUPRMAN said:

MJJstudent said:

hhhhmmmm... i can point that person to a few immature people raising kids.

yes indeed... you have to know where you are in life before you bring someone else into it. people look at me all the time and tell me i have issues because i don't want to give birth, despite wanting really badly to be a mother. so i'm on the other end of the spectrum.

Have a C-section delivery. Go have that baby and be happy.

i don't want any part of pregnancy though.

alphastreet said:

MJJstudent said:

hhhhmmmm... i can point that person to a few immature people raising kids.

yes indeed... you have to know where you are in life before you bring someone else into it. people look at me all the time and tell me i have issues because i don't want to give birth, despite wanting really badly to be a mother. so i'm on the other end of the spectrum.

I think it would be a great experience too, but just not for me. Definitely doesn't make me a terrible female, I would feel like more of a terrible human being if I was not being true to myself due to peer pressure and regretted it later on. And then people wonder why there is so much child abuse and neglect (cause of pressure) ....shame.

[Edited 4/29/11 0:51am]

no it doesn't at all. i don't see why some people force others to have children. even though i want badly to be a mother, i respect those who are honest enough to say they don't want to parent.

ZombieKitten said:

NDRU said:

My brother described his wife's c-section, he said she was pretty much turned inside out!

Leo told me it looked like they were very roughly rummaging around in a sock drawer, yanking me every which way - no wonder I felt like EVERYTHING was bruised after I was in the hospital on morphine and other drugs for a few days

Pushing out Max was quick, and I was up and about in an hour, able to shower myself and go home the next day, no drugs!

wow... i'm glad you healed.

MJJstudent said:

SUPRMAN said:

Have a C-section delivery. Go have that baby and be happy.

i don't want any part of pregnancy though.

Supr...a C-section is not the cure here. Pregnancy is a process one must prepare for, very stressful on a woman's body. If Jamilah here isn't ready...or can't see herself like that...then that's her decision.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

MJJstudent said:

i don't want any part of pregnancy though.

Supr...a C-section is not the cure here. Pregnancy is a process one must prepare for, very stressful on a woman's body. If Jamilah here isn't ready...or can't see herself like that...then that's her decision.

thanks...

I have to praise the WOMAN for withstanding nine or ten months of pregnancy, hell ANY MONTHS. Because sometimes the baby ends up being delivered prematurely (I came prematurely so I should know). But pregnancy definitely is not for EVERY WOMAN, I don't care what society claims. Sometimes men take for granted how hard it is to have another being in your body. My mom almost died having me, it's not that simple. So I applaud those that DON'T wanna go through that process. Personally for me it would take a lot of work to raise a child because you never know how parenting is going to be going in. No one really knows.