alphastreet said:

He was generous, giving, inspirational and blah blah and all that stuff, I do believe he was genuine. But I think that by doing that Bashir interview for damage control, all this Peter Pan stuff was exagerrated, exagerrating the so-called "asexual image" and contributed to the cariacture the media made him out to be.

Also all those people who call him a pedo can't make up their minds....if he has straight porn he did it, if he did it, he's gay as if one must be gay to do that. They don't even know and look ignorant in the end. And just so you know, from what I've seen, many mj fans laugh at fans who defend every single thing about him, I don't know many fans who think of him as a perfect saint though those who do are laughed at or very young. I've had my share of being critical too, trust me, but on some things, I have to give the benefit of the doubt cause the man had a lot of money and was a pushover and a cash cow.

He didn't do the Bashire interview for "damage control." Bashir was supposed to be interviewing him over the course of all those months about the various children who had come to Neverland with serious illnesses and been healed/cured/went into remission, etc. That's why Gavin is in the documentary - because he was dying of cancer with 2 weeks to live when he met MJ. After following the program MJ had him on the boy got better. Bashir chose to show film of conversations that were totally irrelevant to the purpose of the documentary MJ had agreed to make.

I really wish more fans would read the trial transcripts and understand these things themselves before debating haters. Honestly a lot of fans are worse tabloid junkies than the haters because they read everything they can get their hands on that is sensational and tintalating, but can't be bothered with boring court documents. Or boring facts like Martin Bashir and Tommy Mottola's driver at the time are brothers. Mottola vowed that the '93 allegations would come back to haunt MJ after he was fired from his position at Sony in January of 2003 over the stink MJ raised about him burying Invincible. The media will tell you that MJ called Tommy a racist devil, but somehow they don't get around to reporting the part about Sony ousting the dude so the public is just left making jokes about MJ being ridiculous and Invincible being a dud. Nevermind the album debuted at #1 and went to #1 in 11 countries.

allthatglitters said:

Unholyalliance said:

But you may not know them personally. All you know is that they may or may not have done something that you greatly dislike.

Do you have children ? If a pedophile moved next door to you would you be so understanding ? He could come across as the nicest person in the world would you like him but not his crimes ?

There was a school right across the street from Neverland. If all the tabloid crap you believe about MJ were true and there had actually been any evidence of him abusing children, he couldn't have been living there all those years. It's so easy to fool the gullible public that it's not even funny. The FBI couldn't find anything on the man after investigating him endlessly for years.

No.

The only artist that I would refuse to listen upon finding out that he was

in fact, a lying bastard and prick, is ol' Hay-zeus.

Everybody is human and gets a pass.

AnaisKarim said:

alphastreet said:

He was generous, giving, inspirational and blah blah and all that stuff, I do believe he was genuine. But I think that by doing that Bashir interview for damage control, all this Peter Pan stuff was exagerrated, exagerrating the so-called "asexual image" and contributed to the cariacture the media made him out to be.

Also all those people who call him a pedo can't make up their minds....if he has straight porn he did it, if he did it, he's gay as if one must be gay to do that. They don't even know and look ignorant in the end. And just so you know, from what I've seen, many mj fans laugh at fans who defend every single thing about him, I don't know many fans who think of him as a perfect saint though those who do are laughed at or very young. I've had my share of being critical too, trust me, but on some things, I have to give the benefit of the doubt cause the man had a lot of money and was a pushover and a cash cow.

He didn't do the Bashire interview for "damage control." Bashir was supposed to be interviewing him over the course of all those months about the various children who had come to Neverland with serious illnesses and been healed/cured/went into remission, etc. That's why Gavin is in the documentary - because he was dying of cancer with 2 weeks to live when he met MJ. After following the program MJ had him on the boy got better. Bashir chose to show film of conversations that were totally irrelevant to the purpose of the documentary MJ had agreed to make.

I really wish more fans would read the trial transcripts and understand these things themselves before debating haters. Honestly a lot of fans are worse tabloid junkies than the haters because they read everything they can get their hands on that is sensational and tintalating, but can't be bothered with boring court documents. Or boring facts like Martin Bashir and Tommy Mottola's driver at the time are brothers. Mottola vowed that the '93 allegations would come back to haunt MJ after he was fired from his position at Sony in January of 2003 over the stink MJ raised about him burying Invincible. The media will tell you that MJ called Tommy a racist devil, but somehow they don't get around to reporting the part about Sony ousting the dude so the public is just left making jokes about MJ being ridiculous and Invincible being a dud. Nevermind the album debuted at #1 and went to #1 in 11 countries.

I know about Sony and Motolla getting booted as a result. Sony wasn't the issue, Motolla was. And Bashir was an asshole, I know he was directing MJ and Gavin and whoever else filmed on how to act for the cameras....and gave it his own spin. Freaking idiot. I guess I just wish none of this happened and missed MJ being musically active though I understood why he couldn't either. It was obvious it was being filmed before the Berlin window day, so I know it wasn't in response to that headline already.

And yeah, that is true about the school near Neverland, I heard that years ago and when I first heard it, I felt like those kids were so lucky that MJ is nearby!!!

allthatglitters said:

Firstly I am not quite sure who you think you are suggesting that thinking is new to me and that I need educating. Taking mj out of the equation pedophiles are reviled by most decent minded people in the civilised world. Whilst I can forgive some criminals of there offences and I am open minded enough to look at circumstances surrounding them, sex crimes of any nature are to me unforgivable and yes I would turn my back on any member of my own family convicted of such crime. The tone of your reply was highly condescending even though you know nothing of me other than a few lines on this forum (are you usually such a bad judge) see what I did with those brackets! We are all entitled to an opinion and whilst I respect yours I cannot agree with it.

You:

1. Only have a grave hatred for pedophiles, but, for some reason unbeknowest to me, do not share the same hatred for hebephiles, ephebophiles, or even nepiophiles. This seems odd to me, but whatever floats your boat...I guess...

2. Are no different from the rest of the sheeple out there and prefer to eat whatever is handed to you rather than trying to think a little more critically. So, instead of taking 2 seconds to go to google and do a little research on the subject matter you just lump all of those paraphillias into one category even though you are quite mistaken and misinformed.

3. Just don't give a rat's ass.

Since I doubt it's #1 or #3, it's most likely #2. Even in your few lines of text I already could tell that and I hope you can understand why my post may have expressed some annoyance. While this cluster of paraphillias are still quite new and are still being studied there is still info out there for you to read. I don't understand why people choose to ignore it.

That being said, I still don't necessarily agree with hating someone you don't know. Especially when they haven't done something that has, personally, affected you or someone you know, love, and care for. You can greatly dislike or strongly disagree what they have done, yes. You can even hate it, but I still don't see the logical sense in just hating the person themselves when they have nothing to do with you or haven't done anything to you. This has nothing to do with MJ, it's just in general. I do understand that some people can not do that though (ex. victims or victim's kin). I think I think it's unfortunate, but that's just the way some people are, but I don't agree with it. Do I hate them or people who go off sprouting uneducated opinions though? No.

[Edited 11/12/11 21:32pm]

[Edited 11/12/11 21:33pm]

I strongly believe those who passionately go on about it or have some of hatred were already having a minor issue with him to begin with. The accusation came about and they finally had the last strawwithout thinking about it and that's it, no longer fans cause of not even caring enough about him to have the curiousity of finding out whether it's true or not since pedophilia is an uncomfortable topic anyways. I'm sure his own fans have wondered too, researched and/or kept up to date on facts and concluded based on facts and the actions of others that he's innocent. Kurt Loder is another example of someone who already hated him before.

[Edited 11/12/11 22:00pm]

Gary Glitter, R Kelly, Chris Brown, Ike Turner. John Phillips (double ew...)