I'm a big Madonna fan, but though I care about her as a person, I don't take it personally if someone says something about her or if she says or does things I disagree with it. She's made me go WTF so many times throughout her career, probably cause I was younger and didn't get it, but now I realize there were times I agreed with her and times I disagree with her.

SeventeenDayze said: Shango----OMG you rock!!!!!! I was too lazy to look for it but yes, that's exactly the episode I was thinking of! It's really funny to see the comedians weigh in on it and switching up the lyrics Also, I watched a few more minutes of it into the Miami Vice part and wow Don Johnson was so fine back in the day, also did anyone else think that Phillip M Thomas was trying to be a bit like Prince in that video? It's a few minutes after the Huey Lewis piece. Also, did anyone else think, "Wow, that's when MTV actually played videos by people over 30 who had bands who played instruments!"

You're welcome

Yeah, those eps are fun to watch lol

mjscarousal said:

Unholyalliance said:

Is this what the other poster was alluding too?

That's stupid. Does having heterosexual porn in one's house now make them a pedo? Jesus fucking christ people. This shit is getting beyond ridiculous.

Thats the same thing I said!

The purple hoppers here will bring up anything to trash Michael with even if its the dumbest crap in the world... and the sad part about it is.. they can get away with it and the MJ fans ALWAYS end up being the crazy ones..

smh

[Edited 10/29/11 11:29am]

The reference to the porn was to his being an adult with sexual desires -- something often disputed by some of MJ's fans. Either he was asexual or he wasn't. But he couldn't have been both.

And, dang, just because someone points out the inconsistency of some fans' defense of him doesn't mean that person didn't enjoy his music (before he turned creepy, that is).

ThreadBare said:

mjscarousal said:

Thats the same thing I said!

The purple hoppers here will bring up anything to trash Michael with even if its the dumbest crap in the world... and the sad part about it is.. they can get away with it and the MJ fans ALWAYS end up being the crazy ones..

smh

[Edited 10/29/11 11:29am]

The reference to the porn was to his being an adult with sexual desires -- something often disputed by some of MJ's fans. Either he was asexual or he wasn't. But he couldn't have been both.

And, dang, just because someone points out the inconsistency of some fans' defense of him doesn't mean that person didn't enjoy his music (before he turned creepy, that is).

I dont think anyone implied that.

YOU on the other hand implied just because someone has pornography in there possession they must be a child molester which is a dumb as hell statement to make...

MJ fans dont dispute that. Michael was a heterosexual male. Thats the MEDIA your talkin with that asexual b.s.

mjscarousal said:

ThreadBare said:

The reference to the porn was to his being an adult with sexual desires -- something often disputed by some of MJ's fans. Either he was asexual or he wasn't. But he couldn't have been both.

And, dang, just because someone points out the inconsistency of some fans' defense of him doesn't mean that person didn't enjoy his music (before he turned creepy, that is).

I dont think anyone implied that.

YOU on the other hand implied just because someone has pornography in there possession they must be a child molester which is a dumb as hell statement to make...

MJ fans dont dispute that. Michael was a heterosexual male. Thats the MEDIA your talkin with that asexual b.s.

I agree. That would be dumb, if that were what I was saying. But it wasn't. And, I've heard MJ fans on this very board make the claim about MJ being asexual/Peter Pan-ish, not some reporter somewhere.

But, it doesn't matter, like most things on teh Interwebs. Have a good day.

ThreadBare said:

mjscarousal said:

I dont think anyone implied that.

YOU on the other hand implied just because someone has pornography in there possession they must be a child molester which is a dumb as hell statement to make...

MJ fans dont dispute that. Michael was a heterosexual male. Thats the MEDIA your talkin with that asexual b.s.

I agree. That would be dumb, if that were what I was saying. But it wasn't. And, I've heard MJ fans on this very board make the claim about MJ being asexual/Peter Pan-ish, not some reporter somewhere.

But, it doesn't matter, like most things on teh Interwebs. Have a good day.

I doubt you heard that from a MJ stan on here... Im pretty sure thats what you biasedly read into the comment. I dont know exactly what comments your speaking on but on this board when fans do comment on the Peterpan bit its mostly referring to Michaels gentle, sensitve, innocent, guilable nature or personality.. not insinuating that he was not sexual or asexual which are completely different.

Glad you acknowledge the statement you made was dumb and utterly ridiculous... you now insist you didnt imply that but you very much did... I wasnt the only one that caught it

[Edited 11/2/11 0:04am]

He was generous, giving, inspirational and blah blah and all that stuff, I do believe he was genuine. But I think that by doing that Bashir interview for damage control, all this Peter Pan stuff was exagerrated, exagerrating the so-called "asexual image" and contributed to the cariacture the media made him out to be.

Also all those people who call him a pedo can't make up their minds....if he has straight porn he did it, if he did it, he's gay as if one must be gay to do that. They don't even know and look ignorant in the end. And just so you know, from what I've seen, many mj fans laugh at fans who defend every single thing about him, I don't know many fans who think of him as a perfect saint though those who do are laughed at or very young. I've had my share of being critical too, trust me, but on some things, I have to give the benefit of the doubt cause the man had a lot of money and was a pushover and a cash cow.

ThreadBare said:

I agree. That would be dumb, if that were what I was saying. But it wasn't. And, I've heard MJ fans on this very board make the claim about MJ being asexual/Peter Pan-ish, not some reporter somewhere.

So you were just saying that he was an adult heterosexual male with sexual desires although you didn't specify what kind of desires they were correct?

Well, I can agree with that. I don't know who called him 'asexual' here, but I don't agree with people who claim that either as some people tend to do. Then again, I'm not really sure, because I wasn't living with him or his best friend to make such assumptions either you know? I don't know what was going on in his head. All I have are his actions...or what is presented to me and I have to make my conclusions from that.

Ultimately, it's all up to interpretation so that's why I just don't want to bother with artists' personal lives. It's too much of a bother to be concerned with.

I've only heard the media and people on youtube call him that, never fans. And I'm talking about way before coming online to talk to fans.

alphastreet said:

I've only heard the media and people on youtube call him that, never fans. And I'm talking about way before coming online to talk to fans.

I have heard a lot of people wonder a lot of things. Though I remember on this one fanboard I went to this one guy used to have this big explanation why he though MJ was asexual and used porn for only physiological reasons.

I mean like, wtf do you know, you didn't even live with the man. Even when you have people calling MJ stans nuts and then sprout out some really crazy ass shit I mean, why do people want to give share their uneducated opinions as if the world with end unless they type them out. At the end of the day, no one here lived with him so wtf? =/

So what's wrong with that if you're not active and use another way to meet those needs? I think millions of people do that anyway, like the type who wait for after marriage for instance.

alphastreet said:

So what's wrong with that if you're not active and use another way to meet those needs? I think millions of people do that anyway, like the type who wait for after marriage for instance.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all.

I just take issue with people who think that they know everything about someone who they never even met before.

A lot of information is out there to go by regarding him, but something like this is just so silly to go on about as if he would be special for being this way

Unholyalliance said:

allthatglitters said:

There is a lot of info out there and I can't understand why a lot of you mj fans so blindly defend him. The guy was a freak, mentally unbalanced and a prolific child molester live with it and enjoy his music. Don't waste your time defending him as the vast majority of people believe there is no smoke without fire

I can't understand why a lot of you detractors so blindly defend your stance on him when you are just getting your information from the same source that everyone is. Even if you were to sit here and type every reason why you think he was Satan incarnate you will not be supplying anyone with any new information that hasn't been put out there already maybe besides to those who really didn't give a shit in the first place.

I said it before and I'll say it again:

No one knows who MJ was besides MJ and maybe the people living with him, but you can't even really trust them. Even with all the information out there it's all up to interpretation. That interpretation is not a reflection of the subject, but rather the interpreter. This applies to most other celebrities and other famous historical figures you have never met in your life. I don't know how one can consider a neutral stance to be in defense of anybody. In fact I don't really think I have defended him or anyone else in my last couple of posts in this thread. I think you are so blinded in your own dislike that your unless they are cursing the ground that he walked on you take it as 'blindly defending' him.

Which is the irony of the entire thing really.

Unholyalliance said:

If I can still happily listen to my Phil Spector box set (and I can) then I can listen to anyone if I think the music is good regardless of what they may have said or did.

allthatglitters said:

It is pedophiles I intensely dislike I don't have to know the person to dislike them'!!!!!!!!

But you may not know them personally. All you know is that they may or may not have done something that you greatly dislike.

Never.

Music is music. It's a gift from the gods or the earth or whatever you believe is bigger than us.

Artists are translators of it.

And who the fuck am I to judge someone I don't even know, or anyone else for that matter?

Unholyalliance said:

gary glitter & michael jackson

allthatglitters said:

Unholyalliance said:

But you may not know them personally. All you know is that they may or may not have done something that you greatly dislike.

Do you have children ? If a pedophile moved next door to you would you be so understanding ? He could come across as the nicest person in the world would you like him but not his crimes ?

Anybod could be a criminal or pedophille. I believe MJ was innocent. There's not really any evidence against him other than witness accounts. Anyone could be a criminal. Look at John Gacy.

John Mayer is dead to me. I don't care what he sings after those comments.

allthatglitters said:

Do you have children ? If a pedophile moved next door to you would you be so understanding ? He could come across as the nicest person in the world would you like him but not his crimes ?

You are wholly naive if you think that you have more to fear from some supposed 'pedo' living next door rather than those who are closest to you (and no, not the pedo). Also, let's think here for a moment (which may be new to you) why would a known convicted pedo/hebe want anything to do with your kids knowing that they are right next door? If you were to report that your kids were molested the first suspect would be the convicted pedophile next door (assuming that he/she was convicted in the first place). That person would have to be a complete idiot. Are serial killers so dumb as to kill their next door neighbors? No. They go further out otherwise they would get caught rather quickly and that would be rather counterproductive on their end.

So let's say that I do have a convicted pedofile for a neighbor. Actually a quick check of the sex offender registry does show I do have sex offenders (rapists and the such) living around my neighborhood. What does that do at the end of day? Nothing. So what should I do? Be a dick to a neighbor who already paid their debt to society and just trying to live their life? All of which has nothing to do with me and my family? I think that the best thing to do is to educate your child and yourself, and not do things like give their gentalia cute names (bad move). You can't keep your kids in the dark, because you think that they have to be cute and innocent forever. Education is key and it's the best weapon that anyone can have. I, also, highly suggest getting some education of your own, because you are, obviously, quite ignorant on the subject as a whole.

That being said, there's way more of a chance of your child(ren) being sexually abused by a close family member and/or family friend rather than some random pedo waiting in the bushes. If you did find out that someone you loved/cared about sexually abused/molested your child, could you just hate them so easily as you proclaim?

Back to MJ though, there's just no proof that he was a pedophile or even a hebephile. I, too, may have been convinced of him being a child molester when he was accused a second time around had it not been for the fact that my friends and I predicted that kid was going to be the next 'victim' back in 2003 when the special aired (and upon reading more about the case). I was disappointed in the fact that he settled the suit in '93 even though I learned it was just negligence suit, but the prosecutors didn't have enough evidence to even arrest him in the first place and the parents didn't even pursue the criminal trial and that, to me, spoke volumes.

If there was one thing that I'm convinced MJ was it was that he was hard headed as fuck. That hard head he had, ultimately, led to his demise.

allthatglitters said:

Firstly I am not quite sure who you think you are suggesting that thinking is new to me and that I need educating. Taking mj out of the equation pedophiles are reviled by most decent minded people in the civilised world. Whilst I can forgive some criminals of there offences and I am open minded enough to look at circumstances surrounding them, sex crimes of any nature are to me unforgivable and yes I would turn my back on any member of my own family convicted of such crime. The tone of your reply was highly condescending even though you know nothing of me other than a few lines on this forum (are you usually such a bad judge) see what I did with those brackets! We are all entitled to an opinion and whilst I respect yours I cannot agree with it.

Here's what I think. When someone becomes a convicted pedophille, odds are, they're not going to molest anyone again. very little do. While on the other hand, anybody could be a criminal. The convicted people are less likely to commit crimes than an average citizen. I think I would know conisdering I come from one of the cities with the highest crime rates in America

R. Kelly.

When that video came out about ten years ago I was done with that guy. I didn't want to hear his music and he ceased getting my support. It wasn't until he released the latest LP that he started to somewhat gain my respect. However, with the announcement that the upcoming album will be called Black Panties (or some silly shit like that!), I can't deal. I feel he's so talented but instead he resorts to making bullshit music.

Something offensive to me in an artist's personal life might put a temporary dent in my ability to enjoy their work, but I usually get over that sort of thing if the work truly is good. The affect on my decision to actually pay for future work by that artist is a bit more permanent, though.

madhattter said:

To all the George Michael fans: what he did in the restroom was STUPID, DUMB and Ignorant, not to mention Disrespecfull to the gay community, and you may not want to admit it, but it did cost him as far as his USA fans are concernd. Elton John didn't come out by making a stupid fool of himself and I respect him for that.

Bullshit..