LoveGalore said:

As a gay, I don't give a true fuck.

As a gay too, i don't give a true fuck either.

-

This has been discussed over and over and over here over the past few years.

Look it up.

-

Not completely off topic, but just this, since it is mentioned here several times;

''Gay Culture'', now what he fuck is that exactly ?

Explain me. I'm gay. (Yeah I know exactly what it is, just 'don't play me' to quote on the subject.)

I'm not a 'culture' or 'movement' or 'group', and don't belong to it.

Which doesn't mean that I disrespect those who want to belong to any group.

I just don't need it, never needed it.

My thought on it all is; what I do in my bed is no one's business, and so should everyone think and act.

Hetereo, gay, LGBTQIA+ whomever enjoys his sex (or not, and in private)/sexuality should enjoy it and don't have comment on others way of enjoyment.

And by the way your or anyone's sex life is so irrelvant (and pretty much boring) to me, and vice versa. "What the fuck" - what's in a word anyways.

It's just irrelevant to judge or condemn what someone does in their private time in their own bed.

Would that make you less human ? Less worthy ? Different in normal life ? What difference does it really make, to anyone?!

Love is love.

No matter what you love and care or long for.

All these appropriations.

Hell I ignore it for common sense reasons.

But I do understand that youngsters today want to be able to express themself the way they are and feel through a/any group.

Being young and feeling different needs to be handled with care and not judged.

So from that point of view I understand it.

Just avoid religious believers.

Especially those who make you feel like you're abnormal, and don't fit into their box, or unproven imposed thinking.

And that counts for non-religous people who will never understand those who deviate from the norm too.

Mind your own business in your own bed, and stay out of others if you don't like it.

[Edited 8/18/22 7:17am]

SolaceAHA said:

Questions like these are impossible because you are the product of your times and what you come from. Prince wouldnt be the same person now if he was just starting NOR do I feel someone like Prince could come from these times, sorry I just don't, much like a Marvin gaye, Stevie, Elton etc... could never come from today no matter how you spin it its different times. This is why cancel culture of the past is BS because you are saying that your 2020's self wouldnt be doing dumb shit or saying a certain word or making a certain joke in the culture of a different time, cancel culture and just cancelling to me is a way for a "confused" generation trying to be and think its morally superior over another but erasing it, thats actually pretty scary thought process. So to me a 1980 PRINCE would never even have been formed by these times, case closed.

This!

Case Closed.

Vannormal said:

LoveGalore said:

As a gay, I don't give a true fuck.

As a gay too, i don't give a true fuck either.

-

This has been discussed over and over and over here over the past few years.

Look it up.

-

Not completely off topic, but just this, since it is mentioned here several times;

''Gay Culture'', now what he fuck is that exactly ?

Explain me. I'm gay. (Yeah I know exactly what it is, just 'don't play me' to quote a the subject.)

I'm not a 'culture' or 'movement' or 'group', and don't belong to it.

Which doesn't mean that I disrespect those who want to belong to a group.

I just don't need it, never needed it.

My thought on it all is; what I do in my bed is no one's business, and so should everyone think and act.

Hetereo, gay, LGBTQIA+ whomever enjoys his sexuality (in private) should enjoy it and don't have comment on others way of enjoyment.

And by the way your or anyone's sex life is so irrelvant (and pretty much boring) to me, and vice versa.

It's just irrelevant to judge or condemn what someone does in their private time in their own bed.

Would that make you less human ? Less worthy ? Different in normal life ? What differnce does it really make.

Love is love. No matter what you love and care or long for.

All these appropriations. Hell I ignore it. But I do understand that youngsters today want to be able to express themself the way they are and feel through a group. Being young and feeling different needs to be handled with care and not judged. So from that point of view I understand it.

Just avoid religious believers. Especially those who make you feel like you're abnormal, and don't fit into their box, or unproven imposed thinking. And that counts for non religous people too.

[Edited 8/18/22 4:07am]

.

This!

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/04/prince-gay-homophobia-conservative-liberal-progress/479502/

Prince: Gay Icon, Whether He Wanted to Be or NotHow to reconcile his later conservatism with the sexual liberation he stood for earlier in life?

By Spencer KornhaberAPRIL 22, 2016

In 2008, the New Yorker writer Claire Hoffman asked Prince what he thought of social issues like gay marriage and abortion. Reported Hoffman of his response: “Prince tapped his Bible and said, ‘God came to earth and saw people sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever, and he just cleared it all out. He was, like, ‘Enough.’”

This exchange caused one of the last great controversies in Prince’s career. The “homophobe” label attached itself to him, accompanied by the bitter shock of many fans. “The irony, it burns,” wrote the blogger Joe Jervis. “The pop star who made his name on his effete, androgynous ‘Is he GAY or not?’ persona—now he hates us.” Representatives for Prince would tell Perez Hilton that the New Yorker misquoted him: “What His Purpleness actually did was gesture to the Bible and said he follows what it teaches, referring mainly to the parts about loving everyone and refraining from judgment,” Hilton wrote.

But the years after that saw Prince actively avoid talking about gay rights, and some writers saw subtle homophobia in a few of his later lyrics and actions.The question of how someone whose art once seemed to preach the very idea of “sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever”—with magazines, etc.—could become so conservative is both fundamentally unanswerable and very simple. People change, and who knows why? Prince became a devout Jehovah’s Witness in the early 2000s, after which his performances often featured toned-down versions of the lyrics to his raciest songs. As he told Arsenio Hall in 2014, “When you’re 20 years old, you’re looking for the ledge ... You want to see how far you can push everything ... and then you make changes. There’s a lot of things I don’t do now that I did 30 years ago. And then there’s some things I still do.”

But whatever his later beliefs were, they pretty clearly don’t undo the earlier impact he had in widening popular notions about sex and gender, nor the fact that he made lots of people who weren’t heterosexual feel better about themselves.

The remembrances of him that are flooding in after the news of his death at age 57 take the queer dimensions of his influence as settled fact. Here’s Dodai Stewart at Fusion, opening her meditation on his life:

Dig, if you will, a picture: The year is 1980. Many states still have sodomy laws. The radio is playing feel-good ear candy like Captain and Tennille and KC and the Sunshine Band. TV hits include the sunny, toothy blond shows Three’s Company and Happy Days. There’s no real word for “gender non-conforming.” But here’s what you see: A man. Clearly a man. Hairy, mostly naked body, cock bulging beneath a satiny bikini bottom. But those eyes. Rimmed in black, like a fantasy belly dancer. The full, pouty lips of a pin-up girl. Long hair. A tiny, svelte thing. Ethnically ambiguous, radiating lust. What is this? A man. Clearly a man. No. Not just a man. A Prince.
Stewart goes on to write about how even though Prince’s lyrical viewpoint was almost always heterosexual—his songs were about men wanting women and women wanting men—he was unafraid of being called feminine, gay, or perverted. “If I Was Your Girlfriend” was a fantasy of gender swapping and lesbianism. “Controversy,” famously, sniffed at the simplistic questions directed at him: “Am I black or white, am I straight or gay?” So did “I Would Die 4 U”: “I’m not a woman / I’m not a man / I am something that you’ll never understand.” Even as recently as 2015, a Boy George joke about having had sex with Prince seemed so plausible as to be widely misunderstood as a serious confession.

The meaning of Prince’s provocations will be dissected for a long time, but there’s no debating that they had a concrete influence on queer people. One of the more poignant reactions to Prince’s death has come from the young R&B singer Frank Ocean, who has had perhaps the most famous coming-out of recent musical history. “[Prince] was a straight black man who played his first televised set in bikini bottoms and knee-high heeled boots, epic,” Ocean wrote. “He made me feel more comfortable with how I identify sexually simply by his display of freedom from and irreverence for obviously archaic ideas like gender conformity.”Of course, his earlier influence doesn’t necessarily excuse Prince if you find his latter-day attitudes to be disheartening. But read back on the New Yorker piece from 2008, and you might get a more sympathetic picture of what Prince’s deeper intentions on the issue might have been:

“Here’s how it is: You’ve got the Republicans, and basically they want to live according to this.” He pointed to a Bible. “But there’s the problem of interpretation, and you’ve got some churches, some people, basically doing things and saying it comes from here, but it doesn’t. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum you’ve got blue, you’ve got the Democrats, and they’re, like, ‘You can do whatever you want.’ Gay marriage, whatever. But neither of them is right.”

Neither of them is right. In politics, as in so many things, Prince was trying to transcend the binary. This led him to a stance on queer people that, at best, can be described as confusing. Perhaps he saw that the conversation on the issue had become too rote, too obvious, with much of the transgressive edge behind calls for liberation drained away by the simple march of progress. It was progress he helped cause, regardless of how he later felt about it.

The thing is, Madonna has never been accused of that - being a white girl from the midwest, dressing in Latina dress (as far back as "La Isla Bonita"), or her overused of Asian aesthetics later in her career. She's done it repeatedly and no one says a word about it.

The Girlie Show, Drowned World Tour were two that used Latin visuals extensively. Then she jumps on the Romani train during the MDNA World Tour. She uses it again coupled with Latin on the Rebel Heart tour.

She's even referred to her Black adopted son with the N-word, thinking she'd somehow got her Black card because she's from near Detroit. (Over 100 miles away, to be exact.)

So for Prince to do what - being Black, using androgyny, what exactly?

And what exactly is a "gay aesthetic?" Men wearing makeup? Welcome to 2022, sweetie. I swear mascera and lip gloss to fucking Target.

Sit down.

Maybe, but that was a different age and time and doesn't apply to now. As a woman, I had to put up with a lot of sexual harrassment in the work place for decades that was the norm way back when. You learned to make a joke of it, have good come back lines, or if the harrassment got to be too much, move on to the next job. That's the way it was. But! I knew teenage girls who dated older men on the downlow even in the 70s in highschool and it was not out of the norm. So, I don't see Prince acting out of "the norm" of the time he lived in. In fact, he waited until the girls were legal. So this cancel Prince bullshit because of different moral mores is complete bullshit.

LoveGalore said:

I think some folks here confusing borrowing or appropriating from a culture with black/gay fishing aka assuming a cultural identity to purposely be confused as such. Here, let me break it down for the pedants:

.

What is "gay culture"? Any amount of innumerable behaviors or traditions typically associated with or originated by a subset of people. Ex: cornrows are seen as black culture, men wearing women's clothing is typically seen as gay culture (read: in 2022, we would call it LGBT culture since transgenderism wasn't a fucking term in the 80s used by even trans people and Prince wasn't a transvestite).

.

Was Prince trying to look or act "gay"? No, he was borrowing bits of many cultures at the time. And when it came to his aesthetic, it was largely a gay one with feminine presenting men and masculine presenting women. Ex; Prince mimicked being fucked in the ass by another man during a dance routine in the 90s on a major tour while singing a song about fucking a woman.

.

What's "gay"? What does "gay" look like? Are you stereotyping When? In the 80s? You're either old enough to know better, or young enough to easily GOOGLE IT. And yes I'm stereotyping! Guess what? Prince wasn't gay. We know what Prince thought gay looked like - himself! The proof? The Uptown lyrics previously posted. In prince's mind's eye was a knowledge that he was dressing jn a way that most people on the street would assume was because he was gay and he didn't correct them unless they asked.

.

Did Prince's appropriation cause injustice? Did it contribute negatively to any LGBT person's existence? No idea how to quantify that but I know a ton of men like myself who Prince inspired to be happy with my gay self because THAT guy dressed gay as hell but was also clearly not. Also, he regularly employed gay people throughout his career. He never had his gay-ish music pulled from the shelves or had their gay-ish artwork changed. He knew, in 2016, that kids would hear Erotic City before they heard The Last December. Prince continued to support LGBT people, even if silently, until he died.

.

Was Prince gay? No, you fucking asshole. But he absolutely dressed like a gay guy/woman depending on the GAY GUY/WOMAN YOU ASK.

.

A culture cannot be just any amount of inumerable behaviours or traditions because some wish to associate this with a subset of people. It is the common ideas, customs, traditions and social behaviours of a particular people or society. Cornrows fit with black culture, but men wearing clothing based on the style of women's clothes is not part of a separate or common gay sub-culture. It occurs all the time and particularly in Prince's formative years - Prince would have seen the 1970s Glam Rock styles. He woud have seen the gender neutral styles of clothing in hippy clothes, flairs, paisley shirts etc etc etc - It even became common in semi-formal dress with straight couples wearing matching flaired and stylised safari suits (yuck). In the late 70s, early 80s this was simply NOT something that meant you appropriated (which meants more than merely borrowed) from gay culture. Prince by following on from hippies, Parliament/Funkadelic, Glam Rockers, 1970s androgeny etc., etc., etc. did not follow the ideas, customs or social behaviour of Gay people, just people and particularly performers.

.

I agreed with you Prince was not trying to look or act "gay". Your example does not work - It is for the women looking at him and imagining themselves being fucked by him/instead of him, it is like a man watching lesbian porn.

.

That you understand that the gay aesthetic had no common look and any look was only ever transient with time and with which particular subset of a community you are looking should shows that you understand that this not an idea, custom, or social behaviour that can be called a tradition. As I said - most LGBTQIA+ people in the early 80s did NOT dress the way Prince did on daily basis.

.

Again your example does not work. Uptown is not about a woman seeing a person she thought was gay. It is about a woman who was attracted to Prince by his looks but Prince rebuffed her by saying "What's up little girl? I ain't got time to play" After picking Prince out in the crowd and calling him over, he did not show the immediate interest she expected, so she questioned his sexuality and after his shock that she could think that, he immediately corrected her:

.

She saw me walking down the streets
Of your fine city
It kinda turned me on when she looked at me
And said, "C'mere"
Now I don't usually talk to strangers
But she looked so pretty
What can I lose,
If I, uh, just give her a little ear?
"What's up little girl?"
"I ain't got time to play."
Baby didn't say too much
She said, "Are you gay?"

Kinda took me by suprise
I didn't know what to do
I just looked her in her eyes
And I said, "No, are u?".

She was attracted to him

.

You are seeing what you want to see. Think about it: Did she call him over because she thought he was gay by his clothes? No, why would she? She assumed he was not gay by his looks but questioned his sexuality because of what he said to her.

.

There is a timing logic error here. You say Prince would only tell people he was not gay if asked, however, Prince absolutely told people up before most of us asked in the words of his songs. This was just as result him hearing people voicing rumours and unsupported opinions so in "Uptown" he openly stated for all to hear that he was not gay and "Controversy" he said that he can't understand why people keep asking the questions they do - whether he was black or white, straight or gay etc. and he then rejects these controversies and wishes they did not exist.

.

I agree that Prince did not cause injustice or contribute negatively to any LGBTQIA+ person's existence - Hence, case closed.

LoveGalore said:

No, you fucking asshole. But he absolutely dressed like a gay guy/woman depending on the GAY GUY/WOMAN YOU ASK.

Reminds me of a line in Austin Powers. "Men wanted to be him, women wanted to be with him."

TrivialPursuit said:

LoveGalore said:

No, you fucking asshole. But he absolutely dressed like a gay guy/woman depending on the GAY GUY/WOMAN YOU ASK.

Reminds me of a line in Austin Powers. "Men wanted to be him, women wanted to be with him."

That pretty much covers it...

IanRG said:

LoveGalore said:

IanRG said:

.

A culture cannot be just any amount of inumerable behaviours or traditions because some wish to associate this with a subset of people. It is the common ideas, customs, traditions and social behaviours of a particular people or society. Cornrows fit with black culture, but men wearing clothing based on the style of women's clothes is not part of a separate or common gay sub-culture. It occurs all the time and particularly in Prince's formative years - Prince would have seen the 1970s Glam Rock styles. He woud have seen the gender neutral styles of clothing in hippy clothes, flairs, paisley shirts etc etc etc - It even became common in semi-formal dress with straight couples wearing matching flaired and stylised safari suits (yuck). In the late 70s, early 80s this was simply NOT something that meant you appropriated (which meants more than merely borrowed) from gay culture. Prince by following on from hippies, Parliament/Funkadelic, Glam Rockers, 1970s androgeny etc., etc., etc. did not follow the ideas, customs or social behaviour of Gay people, just people and particularly performers.

.

I agreed with you Prince was not trying to look or act "gay". Your example does not work - It is for the women looking at him and imagining themselves being fucked by him/instead of him, it is like a man watching lesbian porn.

.

That you understand that the gay aesthetic had no common look and any look was only ever transient with time and with which particular subset of a community you are looking should shows that you understand that this not an idea, custom, or social behaviour that can be called a tradition. As I said - most LGBTQIA+ people in the early 80s did NOT dress the way Prince did on daily basis.

.

Again your example does not work. Uptown is not about a woman seeing a person she thought was gay. It is about a woman who was attracted to Prince by his looks but Prince rebuffed her by saying "What's up little girl? I ain't got time to play" After picking Prince out in the crowd and calling him over, he did not show the immediate interest she expected, so she questioned his sexuality and after his shock that she could think that, he immediately corrected her:

.

She saw me walking down the streets
Of your fine city
It kinda turned me on when she looked at me
And said, "C'mere"
Now I don't usually talk to strangers
But she looked so pretty
What can I lose,
If I, uh, just give her a little ear?
"What's up little girl?"
"I ain't got time to play."
Baby didn't say too much
She said, "Are you gay?"

Kinda took me by suprise
I didn't know what to do
I just looked her in her eyes
And I said, "No, are u?".

She was attracted to him

.

You are seeing what you want to see. Think about it: Did she call him over because she thought he was gay by his clothes? No, why would she? She assumed he was not gay by his looks but questioned his sexuality because of what he said to her.

.

There is a timing logic error here. You say Prince would only tell people he was not gay if asked, however, Prince absolutely told people up before most of us asked in the words of his songs. This was just as result him hearing people voicing rumours and unsupported opinions so in "Uptown" he openly stated for all to hear that he was not gay and "Controversy" he said that he can't understand why people keep asking the questions they do - whether he was black or white, straight or gay etc. and he then rejects these controversies and wishes they did not exist.

.

I agree that Prince did not cause injustice or contribute negatively to any LGBTQIA+ person's existence - Hence, case closed.

The cultures don't cease to exist just because YOU don't think something is or isn't gay. You don't get to dictate what gay culture is or isn't, frankly. Culture is bigger than you. We don't have to agree on any of this because I'm gay and you're just a white straight guy trying to tell me what I'm about. Hard pass. Edit to add: Anyone can conveniently recontextualize something 40 years later. One could even say princes reaction in Dirty Mind was defensive rather than informative. No, are YOU? Prince obviously knew being gay was frowned upon or he wouldn't have put the woman on the spot. And to turn around a year later and say, what does it matter if I'm gay or black or whatever, there's people out there so fucked up and miserable they want to die and ur sitting here asking me innocuous questions expecting simple answers where there aren't any. Prince was smarter than you, Ian. Get over it. [Edited 8/19/22 16:26pm]

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This is not a question of my intelligence vs Prince's. I have shown that Prince disagrees with you and you are seeing only what you want to see.

.

It is also not whether I think something is gay or not - It is that Prince absolutely and undeniably did what he did to attract and appeal to women and he expressed his displeasure at the controversy caused by people questioning whether he was gay.

.

It is not what you are about - the topic is what Prince was about. I can easily get over it, can you get over yourself because the topic is not about you?

.

It is not about about recontextualising, at least not by me. I never presented a gay checklist. Instead I showed that your gay checklist failed to put things in the context of the time - the context being we agree Prince is not gay, there is absolutely mountains of evidence that what he wore was simply not that different from what many other hetero male performers that preceded him wore - indeed it was tame by comparision to many straight performers before and concurrent with him. You have failed to address this everytime I presented this.

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Culture is bigger than you. You have admitted that you are stereotyping and being highly selective. You have failed to address that what Prince wore is not what most gay men wore at the time. You have failed to address that most gay men at the time would fail your gay checklist. It is not me trying to define gay culture.

.

You are still misinterpreting "Uptown". There is no indication that he knew people would think he was visually like a gay man in a fictional story on the basis that the woman was attracted to him enough to seek him out based on his looks and was shocked by her reaction to his opening comments. There is no indication that Prince thought he was acting like a gay man by the way he was shocked that she would question his sexuality. That he turned the question on her is just that he was shocked she would think that he could be gay, not a commentary on social acceptance of homosexuality at the time. It was just the interplay between the characters that continued more positiviely as the song continued.

TrivialPursuit said:

LoveGalore said:

No, you fucking asshole. But he absolutely dressed like a gay guy/woman depending on the GAY GUY/WOMAN YOU ASK.

Reminds me of a line in Austin Powers. "Men wanted to be him, women wanted to be with him."

.

Exactly

IanRG said:

LoveGalore said:

IanRG said:

.

This is not a question of my intelligence vs Prince's. I have shown that Prince disagrees with you and you are seeing only what you want to see.

.

It is also not whether I think something is gay or not - It is that Prince absolutely and undeniably did what he did to attract and appeal to women and he expressed his displeasure at the controversy caused by people questioning whether he was gay.

.

It is not what you are about - the topic is what Prince was about. I can easily get over it, can you get over yourself because the topic is not about you?

.

It is not about about recontextualising, at least not by me. I never presented a gay checklist. Instead I showed that your gay checklist failed to put things in the context of the time - the context being we agree Prince is not gay, there is absolutely mountains of evidence that what he wore was simply not that different from what many other hetero male performers that preceded him wore - indeed it was tame by comparision to many straight performers before and concurrent with him. You have failed to address this everytime I presented this.

.

Culture is bigger than you. You have admitted that you are stereotyping and being highly selective. You have failed to address that what Prince wore is not what most gay men wore at the time. You have failed to address that most gay men at the time would fail your gay checklist. It is not me trying to define gay culture.

.

You are still misinterpreting "Uptown". There is no indication that he knew people would think he was visually like a gay man in a fictional story on the basis that the woman was attracted to him enough to seek him out based on his looks and was shocked by her reaction to his opening comments. There is no indication that Prince thought he was acting like a gay man by the way he was shocked that she would question his sexuality. That he turned the question on her is just that he was shocked she would think that he could be gay, not a commentary on social acceptance of homosexuality at the time. It was just the interplay between the characters that continued more positiviely as the song continued.

Dude, of course he knew how he looked. That's the whole fucking reason for the song Uptown and certainly something he spoke about in a ubiquitous interview recorded that very fucking year. It wasn't displeasure and he made that clear a year later on Controversy. Prince didn't care he looked gay, he thought people had better things to worry themselves with. YOU have the displeasure of having to defend his heterosexuality among your peers. If Prince was displeased with the association, he wouldn't have then put two dykes front and center for the better part of a decade and then even got engaged to a bisexual woman he was associated with for the better part of that same decade. Homosexual ran through the Paisley veins before you could tie your shoes, bud. Maybe YOU can't parse Prince's sense of humor. LGBT people have never had to publicly claim Prince as a gay icon because we all have always known that while you can't ever go home again (Prince would never go back to a gay-ish aesthetic once he left it), a leopard can't change it's faggy spots. We noticed the blouses and the lace and the lavender oil. Say, Ian. Ever met a woman who wanted you to dress in a manner like Prince? If so, why didn't you? If not, I wonder why that is. But yes, of course, it was all a show to attract women because obviously heterosexual women are attracted to the sight of Prince taking Kirk's dick. WTF. Get it together, bro.

.

I am not your dude.

.

Of course he knew how he looked and how silly some people were about that. That is not the question or in question, just another deflection.

.

He looked how he looked to attract and appeal to women because he was not gay. This is something we agree on.

.

It is not the whole reason for Uptown at all. You cannot just make unsupported statements like this - look at the words. The main focus is not about sexuality at all - the only flirting is purely hetero but the chorus is about everyone just a'freakin "White, Black, Puerto Rican" - note this is by people, not sexuality.

.

Of course it was about displeasure - displeasure about others pinning labels and making up bullshit about him. His message was that it just does not matter if someone is black or white, straight or gay, or whatever. Yet you have criticised me for being white and straight.

.

That Prince did not care about other people who thought he looked gay is very different from not caring that he looked gay - his objective was to attract women no matter how you want it to be something else - He did not dress to attract men.

.

And you are back to false assumptions: I don't have to defend anything about the sexuality of any artist to anyone. As I said I have non-CIS, non binary, openly LGBTQIA+, hetero and who knows people in my music collection - I don't have any artist in my collection because I see myself in them or because I want to fuck them or because I want to see my sexuality in them. Given the diversity of what I have, this would make me completely schizo. That is a problem for some but not me.

.

You falsely assume I cannot parse Prince's sense of humour - but it was you who wants flirty interplay between a man and a woman in Uptown to be a deep message to gay people struggling with societal rejection in the early 80s.

.

You falsely assume that Prince being open to other people being homosexual or whatever means he cannot be annoyed that people are too concerned about whether he is black or white, straight or gay. You comment simply does not make sense - That any questions about his race and sexuality are simply irrelevant is the point he was making - yet you miss this everytime you want to label his as gay(-ish). It DOES NOT MATTER TO ME OR TO PRINCE and we are agreed that he is not gay, so your argument has no point.

.

You constantly fail to address that there was NOTHING special in what Prince wore at the time.

.

You failed to respond to me pointing out that Diana Ross is also a gay icon but straight. To this I can add many other hetero performers that are gay icons (Kylie, Ariana, Katy Perry, Pedro Pascal, Jeff Goldbloom, myriad British performers who may or may not be hetero etc.) You have already admitted Prince is not gay and that you can only go on his clothes is just a return to your gay checklist.

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Prince did return to feminine inspired clothes after his child died and his marriage broke up - this look was always being updated from the beginning and it came back (together with the suits depending on the style of performance and audience) - look at Rave unto the year 2000 and all the way through to 3rdEyeGirl.

.

Do you really think that there are not women who like their man to dress like an artist they are attracted to? (And I have no intention of discussing my sex life with you ever!) Do you really think there were no women who thought Prince was sexy and it was only gay men? Do you really think that Prince took Kirk's dick on stage? Or even that there was even a single person in the audience stupid enough to think this? You need to look outside of your fantasy world and wishful thinking and get it together. Your need to hang on to a dream when you know it was never true is only doing you harm.

IanRG said:

RJOrion said:

LoveGalore said:

IanRG said:

.

I am not your dude.

.

Of course he knew how he looked and how silly some people were about that. That is not the question or in question, just another deflection.

.

He looked how he looked to attract and appeal to women because he was not gay. This is something we agree on.

.

It is not the whole reason for Uptown at all. You cannot just make unsupported statements like this - look at the words. The main focus is not about sexuality at all - the only flirting is purely hetero but the chorus is about everyone just a'freakin "White, Black, Puerto Rican" - note this is by people, not sexuality.

.

Of course it was about displeasure - displeasure about others pinning labels and making up bullshit about him. His message was that it just does not matter if someone is black or white, straight or gay, or whatever. Yet you have criticised me for being white and straight.

.

That Prince did not care about other people who thought he looked gay is very different from not caring that he looked gay - his objective was to attract women no matter how you want it to be something else - He did not dress to attract men.

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And you are back to false assumptions: I don't have to defend anything about the sexuality of any artist to anyone. As I said I have non-CIS, non binary, openly LGBTQIA+, hetero and who knows people in my music collection - I don't have any artist in my collection because I see myself in them or because I want to fuck them or because I want to see my sexuality in them. Given the diversity of what I have, this would make me completely schizo. That is a problem for some but not me.

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You falsely assume I cannot parse Prince's sense of humour - but it was you who wants flirty interplay between a man and a woman in Uptown to be a deep message to gay people struggling with societal rejection in the early 80s.

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You falsely assume that Prince being open to other people being homosexual or whatever means he cannot be annoyed that people are too concerned about whether he is black or white, straight or gay. You comment simply does not make sense - That any questions about his race and sexuality are simply irrelevant is the point he was making - yet you miss this everytime you want to label his as gay(-ish). It DOES NOT MATTER TO ME OR TO PRINCE and we are agreed that he is not gay, so your argument has no point.

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You constantly fail to address that there was NOTHING special in what Prince wore at the time.

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You failed to respond to me pointing out that Diana Ross is also a gay icon but straight. To this I can add many other hetero performers that are gay icons (Kylie, Ariana, Katy Perry, Pedro Pascal, Jeff Goldbloom, myriad British performers who may or may not be hetero etc.) You have already admitted Prince is not gay and that you can only go on his clothes is just a return to your gay checklist.

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Prince did return to feminine inspired clothes after his child died and his marriage broke up - this look was always being updated from the beginning and it came back (together with the suits depending on the style of performance and audience) - look at Rave unto the year 2000 and all the way through to 3rdEyeGirl.

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Do you really think that there are not women who like their man to dress like an artist they are attracted to? (And I have no intention of discussing my sex life with you ever!) Do you really think there were no women who thought Prince was sexy and it was only gay men? Do you really think that Prince took Kirk's dick on stage? Or even that there was even a single person in the audience stupid enough to think this? You need to look outside of your fantasy world and wishful thinking and get it together. Your need to hang on to a dream when you know it was never true is only doing you harm.

You're my whatever-i-feel-like-calling-you. Like, "son" for starters.

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Such a shame your need to feel superior leaves you ever wanting.

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You have done nohing but assume and attack.

[Edited 8/20/22 1:35am]

IanRG said:

LoveGalore said:

IanRG said:

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Such a shame your need to feel superior leaves you ever wanting.

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You have done nohing but assume and attack.

[Edited 8/20/22 1:35am]

What a sin.

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No, it was just pointless - It did not even succeed in its attempt to cover up that you could not make your case.

LoveGalore said:

Yeah, probably. But only by the Twitter brigade who seek out and stir up controversy.

Prog5000 said:

JorisE73 said:

LoveGalore said:

JorisE73 said: