TrivialPursuit said:

He also mentioned people thought he was gay in "Life O The Party"

StrangeButTrue said:

He also mentioned people thought he was gay in "Life O The Party"

I don't care what they say
"He don't play the hits no more
plus I thought he was gay"

RJOrion said:

And to take it a step further, there are many people who dont buy the story that Prince's father kicked his 13 year old son out the crib after catching him with a girl, because what fathers do that???...that sounds like the actions of a father that caught his son doing something that was in 1971/1972 FAR more unacceptable...like maybe sex with another boy...im not gonna name names, but the implication are pretty obvious and extremely logical...and it was ALSO a prevalent rumor in Minneapolis...further fueled by Prince's own lyrics in "When You Were Mine"..again, im not saying these things are facts, but im acknowledging what was thought and discussed by MANY at the time, and to this day...

Morris Day confirmed that it was girls that Prince always brought home so let's not go there.

paisleyparkgirl said:

laytonian said:

No, they do not -- at least once they know about him.
With all of his public lovers and life, who has reported a gay relationship with him?
Frankly, from Bambi onwrd, I believe he was homophobic. He wanted Wendy so took her twin sister. Later urged Wendy and Lisa to renounce their identities, etc.

[Edited 8/15/22 7:36am]

I believe that it's Wendy that he wanted as well.

That's what I said. Susannah was a substitute.
There are also rumors that he bedded Lisa.

paisleyparkgirl said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

RJOrion said:

And to take it a step further, there are many people who dont buy the story that Prince's father kicked his 13 year old son out the crib after catching him with a girl, because what fathers do that???...that sounds like the actions of a father that caught his son doing something that was in 1971/1972 FAR more unacceptable...like maybe sex with another boy...im not gonna name names, but the implication are pretty obvious and extremely logical...and it was ALSO a prevalent rumor in Minneapolis...further fueled by Prince's own lyrics in "When You Were Mine"..again, im not saying these things are facts, but im acknowledging what was thought and discussed by MANY at the time, and to this day...

Morris Day confirmed that it was girls that Prince always brought home so let's not go there.

That was André.

RJOrion said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

Morris Day confirmed that it was girls that Prince always brought home so let's not go there.

Morris never lived with Prince or Prince's father, and neither did you or i...Morris had a sometimes contentious and mostly subordinate relationship with Prince, so he was in no position to know or divulge Prince's personal secrets or info on his sexual proclivities or activities...Morris met Prince through Andre...and since for the umpteenth time, ive made it clear that my thoughts on the matter are neither conclusive nor definitive, i'll "go" wherever i choose to go while discussing the matter...thank you for your time.

You seem to have an agenda. It's been well documented that Prince's father had an issue with him always bringing girls over and gave him a warning.

LoveGalore said:

TrivialPursuit said:

And let me take that a half-step further. Prince being gay rumors were like the ones about Oprah and Gayle. They persisted for decades. DECADES! Yet Oprah once said, "the way I've lived my life and ran my show, if I were gay why would I hide that part of my life?" The woman pulled a wagon of fan onto a stage having lost weight on a liquid diet. (Then went out that night for a burger with friends and immediately put on 5 lbs.) She's showed every part of her life, often in great detail, and - let's not forget - had a long term boyfriend for just as long. No beard is going to stay around that long, not even for Oprah.

If Prince were gay, and as much as he took a stand on any given topic he believed in, and knowing he pushed envelopes the way he did, and looked for the edge to see just how close he could get to it, and had Wendy and Lisa (who were IRL girlfriends) doing quasi-lesbian talk on songs like "Computer Blue," and who had already written songs like "Bambi," "Sexuality," and "Jack U Off," why the fuck would he NOT JUST BE OUT AND GAY?!

It's insane to think he hid something like that his whole life. Just ridiculous. The genius of all is that he was not only a Boomer with boomer sensibilities about money, work, success and relationships, but that he toyed with the ideas of sexuality for the sheer sake of it, to set off people who would believe he was gay or bisexual or otherwise on the sexual spectrum. "Would you be a happy boy or a girl?" "Have you ever wanted to play with someone so much you'd take anyone boy or girl?" The fun of it was that stupid people fell for it instead of seeing the bigger picture.

It's like that scene:

Fans checking out his lyrics: "Well, I was in the neighborhood..."
Prince: "And you got lost?"

Maybe their lives would be better with a new pair of shoes.

100%!! I mean according to Ian, Prince's high "heals" were because he was so short. So how come, pray tell, folks here can't loosen their loafers enough to wrap their mind around ambiguity even when it challenges their understanding of... Things?

.

Misrepresent much? The topic is whether he appropriated from gay culture to which I said "Prince appropriated nothing and everything, just like everybody - Not just artists, everybody." You were the one who brought up high heels (thank you for pointing out my spelling error) as part of your check list of gayness. I pointed out that many gay people would fail your check list and addressed each of your points. Prince did wear high shoes because of his height but chose the styles to play up to his audience. Both these points are undeniable and in line with what many before had done and were doing at the time. You need to wrap your head around ambiguities rather than check lists.

.

You really should re-read what you just said was 100%. It is an argument against the gay rumours by recognition of what I said - He played up to his audience and "the fun of it was that stupid people fell for it instead of seeing the bigger picture." He was no orphan and Minneapolis was not some unique city, performers have played up to their audience forever. Glam rock preceded Prince, rumours persisted with some people forever, ambiguity allows people to think perhaps he is one of us just as much as "Is he? Isn't he?". That some will jump up and down and say he stole our culture is part and parcel of that performance.

.

Playing to you audience does not mean you have stolen from them - Diana Ross is a case in point. She plays to a wide range of audiences from ultra conservative to full on Drag and is well known as a gay icon but is straight. The dance and club scene from the 70s to the early 80s was what Prince tapped into and it had an ambiguous element long before Prince. How important to you is the potential that perhaps Prince might have been gay? Why are you so challenged by understanding that there is no real chance that this was true? For me it is irrelevant. In my collection of music I have music by all sorts of people across entire spectrums - it is the music that is important not whose bed they put their loafers under.

[Edited 8/15/22 14:33pm]

prince did say he only wore heels as women liked them. whether he said that to show he wasnt gay, or to hide his true reasons, idk. but its obv he knew that there was shock value in doing it, and flirting with bisexuality as a musician.

after a certain point, he obv decided he didnt want that kind of attention anymore. which makes sense, he was getting older, and many ppl get more conservative as they age, and he prob was thinking about his legacy, and he obv enjoyed preaching and being something of a mentor figure/elder statesman. but as with most things he did, prince was contradictory. he was never really a political person, or an ideologically motivated/inclined person. yes he gave to many causes, but i think mostly he was just about giving or paying tribute to those less fortunate. he never had any real conviction with his politics IMO. so its not surprising he wasnt that concerned about gay/lesbian issues. if he had lived longer, im pretty sure hed have no real interest in or care for trans issues. hed probably be quite against it i imagine.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

prince did say he only wore heels as women liked them. whether he said that to show he wasnt gay, or to hide his true reasons, idk. but its obv he knew that there was shock value in doing it, and flirting with bisexuality as a musician.

after a certain point, he obv decided he didnt want that kind of attention anymore. which makes sense, he was getting older, and many ppl get more conservative as they age, and he prob was thinking about his legacy, and he obv enjoyed preaching and being something of a mentor figure/elder statesman. but as with most things he did, prince was contradictory. he was never really a political person, or an ideologically motivated/inclined person. yes he gave to many causes, but i think mostly he was just about giving or paying tribute to those less fortunate. he never had any real conviction with his politics IMO. so its not surprising he wasnt that concerned about gay/lesbian issues. if he had lived longer, im pretty sure hed have no real interest in or care for trans issues. hed probably be quite against it i imagine.

.

And yet he dressed no less effeminately with 3rdEyeGirl. To those obsessed with shoes - these may have been lower or more solid, but his hip was worse.

.

You need to review his anthology if you think he was not poltically motivated.

[Edited 8/15/22 17:46pm]

paisleyparkgirl said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Actually he did dress more conservatively (relatively speaking lol) starting around 96 i think. If you look at how he wore more and more suits and then more typical make rock star outfits in 00s and 10s, its clear he might have still been glitzy but he wasnt really wearing anything that daring anymore. But hey, he was in his 50s.

.

Actually Prince changed his style throughout his career.

.

Yes, there was the period around his child's death and subsequent marriage breakup where his clothes were more conservative, but that started to end quickly. Look at Rave unto the year 2000 and in promotional shots for Rainbow Children. The suits remained depending on the performance but they became less and less conservative and less regular. By 3rdEyeGirl, there may not have been asscheeks but it was age appropriately back to more like before. It was not just what other rock stars were wearing.

IanRG said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

prince did say he only wore heels as women liked them. whether he said that to show he wasnt gay, or to hide his true reasons, idk. but its obv he knew that there was shock value in doing it, and flirting with bisexuality as a musician.

after a certain point, he obv decided he didnt want that kind of attention anymore. which makes sense, he was getting older, and many ppl get more conservative as they age, and he prob was thinking about his legacy, and he obv enjoyed preaching and being something of a mentor figure/elder statesman. but as with most things he did, prince was contradictory. he was never really a political person, or an ideologically motivated/inclined person. yes he gave to many causes, but i think mostly he was just about giving or paying tribute to those less fortunate. he never had any real conviction with his politics IMO. so its not surprising he wasnt that concerned about gay/lesbian issues. if he had lived longer, im pretty sure hed have no real interest in or care for trans issues. hed probably be quite against it i imagine.

.

And yet he dressed no less effeminantly with 3rdEyeGirl. To those obsessed with shoes - these may have been lower or more solid, but his hip was worse.

.

You need to review his anthology if you think he was not poltically motivated.

He was VERY politically motivated in my opinion.

RJOrion said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

Morris Day confirmed that it was girls that Prince always brought home so let's not go there.

LMAO!...I seem to have to "have an agenda", while YOU'RE the one that started this whole thread about Prince "appropriating" gay culture and keeping it going by responding to almost everyone who has any input of their own...🤣...the irony and hypocrisy of your accusation against me is hilarious...bless your heart

My question is a fair and valid one. If I believed he was actually gay this would not have been a topic of discussion. This entire thread is about a STRAIGHT man "appropriating" gay culture. If you want to go to the "Prince was gay" angle, then go create your own thread because it's irrelevant to what's being discussed here.

[Edited 8/15/22 16:07pm]

paisleyparkgirl said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

RJOrion said:

paisleyparkgirl said: LMAO!...I seem to have to "have an agenda", while YOU'RE the one that started this whole thread about Prince "appropriating" gay culture and keeping it going by responding to almost everyone who has any input of their own...🤣...the irony and hypocrisy of your accusation against me is hilarious...bless your heart

This entire thread is about a STRAIGHT man "appropriating" gay culture.

.

If you read the above the most anyone can point to is clothes and styles. Around half the world's population would disagree that being open to feminine styles is stealing "gay" culture at all. Who is doing the appropriation here?

[Edited 8/15/22 18:15pm]

IanRG said:

LoveGalore said:

IanRG said:

.

If you read the above the most anyone can point to is clothes and styles. Around half the world's population would disagree that being open to feminine styles is stealing "gay" culture at all. Who is doing the appropriation here?

[Edited 8/15/22 18:15pm]

Actually about a billionty percent of the population agrees with us. Pronce is gey.

.

So how come, pray tell, folks here can't loosen their loafers enough to wrap their mind around cogent fact based arguments when it challenges their understanding of... Things? There was no real ambiguity out side of the performance, just wishful thinking even 40 or more years later.

Two words:

FANCY LESBIAN

TrivialPursuit said:

Two words:

FANCY LESBIAN

.

[Edited 8/16/22 2:21am]

RJOrion said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

Morris Day confirmed that it was girls that Prince always brought home so let's not go there.

LMAO!...I seem to have to "have an agenda", while YOU'RE the one that started this whole thread about Prince "appropriating" gay culture and keeping it going by responding to almost everyone who has any input of their own...🤣...the irony and hypocrisy of your accusation against me is hilarious...bless your heart

Plus there was/is nothing 'gay' about the way he dressed or his clothing.
A feminine male doesn't not equal a gay man.

paisleyparkgirl said:

RJOrion said:

paisleyparkgirl said: LMAO!...I seem to have to "have an agenda", while YOU'RE the one that started this whole thread about Prince "appropriating" gay culture and keeping it going by responding to almost everyone who has any input of their own...🤣...the irony and hypocrisy of your accusation against me is hilarious...bless your heart

My question is a fair and valid one. If I believed he was actually gay this would not have been a topic of discussion. This entire thread is about a STRAIGHT man "appropriating" gay culture. If you want to go to the "Prince was gay" angle, then go create your own thread because it's irrelevant to what's being discussed here.

[Edited 8/15/22 16:07pm]

But he didn't appropriate anyting from gay culture. Not in his mannerisms or his clothing style.
Stop pretending his style was gay and gays have the right to claim it as there own or as if it was part of "their" culture.

JorisE73 said:

IanRG said:

LoveGalore said:

JorisE73 said:

But he didn't appropriate anyting from gay culture. Not in his mannerisms or his clothing style.
Stop pretending his style was gay and gays have the right to claim it as there own or as if it was part of "their" culture.

I mean, that's not really true. Show me another heterosexual male wearing lace panties on stage that didn't turn out to be gay other than Prince? Honestly curious. And please be specific because you're saying Prince's specific style was not gay or gay-ish, so I'd love to see the basis for comparison. That is to say, please don't even bother mentioning 80s hair bands, Bowie, Little Richard, or Liberace as half of those folks are gay or gay for pay.

A guy wearing (bikini) briefs (not lace panties, Prince never wore those) is not exclusive to gays be it on or off stage. I grew up in the 70s and 80s and every summer we went to Scheveningen (the coast beach) and there were numerous (European) men wearing that shit.
But on stage I've seen not-gay members of Parliament/Funkadelic wear more outlandish gear that but including dudes running around in bikini briefs. I think it was more a funk-freak thing than a gay thing.
Prince's style was more akin to a 'potlood venter' as we say in Dutch in his early days (potloodventer is a guy who wears a trenchcoat with nothing underneath it and flashes women)

[Edited 8/16/22 4:52am]

LoveGalore said:

IanRG said:

.

So how come, pray tell, folks here can't loosen their loafers enough to wrap their mind around cogent fact-based arguments when it challenges their understanding of... Things? There was no real ambiguity outside of the performance, just wishful thinking even 40 or more years later.

What facts? I know Prince wasn't gay. He sure did dress queer tho. And he knew that which is why you saw him stop dressing like that when religion became his primary focus in life and he felt compelled to explain away his gay-ish past (as others who "borrowed but didn't appropriate" from gay culture) and cover up his usually-flaunted skin. You can say what you want, but it's always uptight dudes like you who can't reconcile the fact you see yourself in someone who acts a little gay. Deal with your internalized homophobia on your own time. I'm gonna stick to cogent facts.

.

The simple, clear facts that Prince is not gay, you misrepresented what I said, and you misread what Trivial Pursuit said.

.

The other cogent fact is that you are now just making up assumptions:

.

1: You know he was not gay, I know he was not gay. BUT instead of acknowledging this agreement, you feel the need to assume that I must be uptight and homophobic because I rejected you stereotyping gay men with your checklist of gayness based simply on clothes, shoes and styles - never about what being gay actually means. As I said most gay men will fail your checklist because most don't daily dress or act like Prince. Your assumption is not cogent and it is wrong.

.

2: You assume I see myself in Prince, so I cannot reconcile that he acted a little gay - Your assumption is not cogent and is wrong. I do not see myself in Prince - I just love his music. All I ever saw was that he always acted as a person who was not gay, (despite some people's wishful thinking or erroneous assumption) and how he dressed was not that different to all the hetero performers doing Glam Rock before him. As an Australian I grew up with the Skyhooks The Skyhooks Story In 9 S...amp; Comps. Prince came after this and was tame compared to this. As I said, there are many artists in my music collection that are non-CIS, non-binary or not hetero and this simply does not matter to me. Unlike your need for Prince to be at least ambiguous as part of the reason you like him, I have no need to see myself in any musician because it is about the music.

.

It would be good if you were actually gonna stick to cogent facts instead of false assumptions.

LoveGalore said:

JorisE73 said:

But he didn't appropriate anyting from gay culture. Not in his mannerisms or his clothing style.
Stop pretending his style was gay and gays have the right to claim it as there own or as if it was part of "their" culture.

I mean, that's not really true. Show me another heterosexual male wearing lace panties on stage that didn't turn out to be gay other than Prince? Honestly curious. And please be specific because you're saying Prince's specific style was not gay or gay-ish, so I'd love to see the basis for comparison. That is to say, please don't even bother mentioning 80s hair bands, Bowie, Little Richard, or Liberace as half of those folks are gay or gay for pay.

.

If you think Prince is the be all and end all of heterosexual men dressing up for his stage performance, you really had an ultra staight upbringing.