bashraka said:

Neal Karlen will peddle this crock of garbage to gullible fans.

.

Interesting to see which youtubers/podcasters are more than happy to have him on their show and those that want absolutely nothing to do with him.

simm0061 said:

dodger said:

simm0061 said: . Since you’ve read it, what was the Sonny Liston story please? I saw a mention of a visit to his grave

According to Neal, Muhammad Ali told Prince that his one regret in life was that he went over board in his shit talk to Sonny Liston and that Sonny didn't deserve that. He ask Prince to appologize to Sonny (at his grave) if he ever got the chance. Why Ali couldn't do this himself, I don't know.

So, during his stint in Vegas, P (with Neal in tow) visited Liston's grave and did just that. The following day, Neal says P called him and wanted to visited the grave again. They did, but this time P ordered Neal to stay by the car and P walked up and placed an envelope on Liston's grave. Neal thinks that the envelope contained a song for Liston (Liston once said that "somone should compose a song for boxers, it would be just a guitar, a trumpet, and a bell.") Neal thinks P composed the "song for boxers" that Sonny wanted.

It's a great story. Is it Bs? The part about Neal being there probably is!

[Edited 10/10/20 11:18am]

Ruth, Prince's manager during this time, has explicity said this is not accurate:

I just came back on to Twitter to say anything Neal wrote abt 2007 is false.

and also

I can’t speak for the whole of it, but most definitely can tell you on many accounts how erroneous the Sonny Lister story is besides the story of Sonny Lister. [sic]

I'm inclined to believe Ruth, who worked for Prince 24/7 for seven years, over Neal.

Sonny Liston, not Lister

Margot said:

Sonny Liston, not Lister

Yes, that's why I put a [sic] after it -- to indicate I copied the source text as written, complete with any misspellings. I'm sure Ruth meant to type Sonny Liston. My point was more about the fact that Ruth - someone who was his 'right-hand man' for seven years - said it's inaccurate. But feel free to focus on the typo.

fragglerock said:

jone70 said:

Margot said:

Sonny Liston, not Lister

Yes, that's why I put a [sic] after it -- to indicate I copied the source text as written, complete with any misspellings. I'm sure Ruth meant to type Sonny Liston. My point was more about the fact that Ruth - someone who was his 'right-hand man' for seven years - said it's inaccurate. But feel free to focus on the typo.

Sonny Liston should be fairly well-known to most; the fact she misspelled his name indicates to me she likely does know who he is and is missing the context.

Margot said:

jone70 said:

Yes, that's why I put a [sic] after it -- to indicate I copied the source text as written, complete with any misspellings. I'm sure Ruth meant to type Sonny Liston. My point was more about the fact that Ruth - someone who was his 'right-hand man' for seven years - said it's inaccurate. But feel free to focus on the typo.

Sonny Liston should be fairly well-known to most; the fact she misspelled his name indicates to me she likely does know who he is and is missing the context.

Okay...the fact that you think that indicates to me you likely do not know who Ruth is and are missing the context.

Ruth is very reliable.

"Really, I'm normal. A little highly-strung, maybe. But normal. But so much has been written about me and people never know what's right and what's wrong. I'd rather let them stay confused." [2004]

Margot said:

MoodyBlumes said:

So it's okay in today's racial climate to invent stories about Prince seeing a rabbi, Sonny Liston, loathing Miles Davis, lying about his history with Spike Lee, claiming that he didn't care about Stevie Wonder's personal life or know him well? We have more evidence of Stevie's relationship with Prince than we have of Neal's. And what does all this lying say about Neal's psychology? Why does he need people to think Prince was swearing as a JW -- even though the many people who knew and shared about him claim the opposite? Even fans were annoyed when he changed his song lyrics.

.

Prince and Stevie performed together at the White House in 2015.

https://www.rollingstone....how-58481/

[Edited 10/10/20 17:09pm]

You seem so angry about this. I am allowed to have my perspective and talked about my reasoning.

I'm a Prince fan and agree with Jon Bream.

I'm going out to dinner, have a nice weekend.

You should be angry too if you are a Prince fan. Claiming that Prince loathed Miles Davis and Spike Lee ain't cool. Not Prince's words, or Eric's, Miles' or Spike's. And then there is the rest of the book.

[Edited 10/10/20 21:37pm]

jone70 said:

Margot said:

Sonny Liston should be fairly well-known to most; the fact she misspelled his name indicates to me she likely does know who he is and is missing the context.

Okay...the fact that you think that indicates to me you likely do not know who Ruth is and are missing the context.

The array of possibilities includes both being true.

But I have no doubt that she knows who Ruth is.

PennyPurple said:

Ruth is very reliable.

I love the way she writes stories, and I hope she considers doing a book.

rap said:

"Really, I'm normal. A little highly-strung, maybe. But normal. But so much has been written about me and people never know what's right and what's wrong. I'd rather let them stay confused." [2004]

Yup.

rap said:

"Really, I'm normal. A little highly-strung, maybe. But normal. But so much has been written about me and people never know what's right and what's wrong. I'd rather let them stay confused." [2004]

Don't think Prince wrote that to endorse Neal Karlen. He stayed focused on his music -- that's why he had 40+ albums, hits for other artists, a lifetime of special performances, and a Vault like the Garden of Eden. He also did film, and was a pioneer in online streaming and artist's rights.

.

In 2006 -

PRINCE, MUSIC LEGEND AND INTERNET VISIONARY,

TO RECEIVE WEBBY LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD AT

THE 10TH ANNUAL WEBBY AWARDS

https://www.webbyawards.c...ent-award/

The first major artist to release an entire album – 1997’s Crystal Ball – exclusively on the Web, Prince’s leadership online has transformed the entertainment industry and reshaped the relationship between artist and fan. Long before MySpace and iTunes, Prince used the Web in new ways to distribute music, premiere videos, and build his relationship with his fans. His groundbreaking web site, NPG Music Club (www.npgmusicclub.com) boasts more than seven full-length CDs of music that are unavailable anywhere else.

“Besides being a musical genius, Prince is a visionary who recognized early on that the web would completely change how we experience music,” said Tiffany Shlain, founder of The Webby Awards. “For more than a decade, he has tapped the power of the Web to forge a deeper connection with his fans and push the boundaries of technology and art.”

[Edited 10/10/20 21:57pm]

Margot said:

simm0061 said:

OperatingThetan said:

simm0061 said:

Just finished it. I've been reading prince biographies since the 80s. While I wouldn't quite call this I biography, it's more of a memoir of Neil's relationship with friends and a postmortem attempt at understanding who he was. The book is doomed to be hated by certain types of fans because it doesn't always paint a pretty picture, or flat out contradicts what they think they know about him. The thing that people are posting here getting mad because Neil believed that prince disliked Miles Davis as a person is a good example of that. I would remind folks that this is Neil's book and covers Neil's experience with prince, and is different than what prince presented to the public or to other people. I don't think Neil tells a single lie in this book, and he's very open about what he doesn't know.

There's definitely some tragic stuff in here about Prince believing in his created persona to his own detriment. Wendy Melvoin has talks about how prince never stopped being the "rockstar" enough to have been able to ask for help when he was dealing with addiction, and Neil deep dives into that idea further. Prince could never show that kind of "weakness", and was ashamed. There are things in this book which are painful to read for those of us that loved Prince, and whose lives were elevated by his music and grand visions.

Neil has done a real service in telling the truth about what he knew about this extraordinary musician. The narrative of who Prince was gets fleshed out in a more human way. I believe this is one of the most unique books about prince, and will be one of the most important for historians.

I grew up in Minneapolis, and i'm also very appreciative of the picture of Minnesota and it's stifling culture that Neil paints. I don't think I have ever seen or read such an accurate portrayal of this anywhere, and it's actually very important to Prince's story.

Margot said:

dodger said:

Margot said:

The peripheral stuff like the Rabbi, Sonny Liston etc are likely questionable but I think Neal has

deep insight into Prince's 'psychology', ie., he talks about Prince's belief in Kayfabe, (the need to be in character all of the time), his need to be cool and in control (Basketball & Cool), his eventual

belief that he was the character, (Prince), his need to compartmentalize, his early adult narcissism (till age 40+).

. But doesn’t he lose all credibility with the fiction/lies/‘peripheral stuff’ . Unless there’s a disclaimer telling the reader - some of this is completely made up

There's a discalaimer in an earlier chapter that none of it is fictional, actually. He takes great pains to communicate that he is telling an un-fictionalized account.

JudasLChrist said:

Interesting that Neal mentions nothing about Dorothy Parker being a social activist.

.

https://essaypride.com/ex/dorothy-parker-arrangement-in-black-and-white-992d6#:~:text=Dorothy%20Parker%27s%20%22Arrangement%20in%20Black%20and%20White%22%20is,main%20character%2C%20the%20woman%20with%20pink%20velvet%20poppies.

.

Dorothy Parker's "Arrangement in Black and White" is set during a dinner party for the host's friend, Walter Williams, an African American musician. Though the party is celebrated in his name, most of the conversation takes place between the host and the main character, the woman with pink velvet poppies. From the conversation, the audience can deduce that though this woman admires Walter Williams's musical talent, she is unable to let go of the racist sentiment against his African American heritage. The author adds a flavor of sophisticated cynicism as she makes this point clear by having the main characters ironically make frequent references concerning how "untroubled" she is about the color of his skin. This argument is further emphasized when she greets Walter Williams; her body language and topic choice gives her predicament away.

[Edited 10/11/20 2:45am]

MoodyBlumes said:

JudasLChrist said:

Just finished it. I've been reading prince biographies since the 80s. While I wouldn't quite call this I biography, it's more of a memoir of Neil's relationship with friends and a postmortem attempt at understanding who he was. The book is doomed to be hated by certain types of fans because it doesn't always paint a pretty picture, or flat out contradicts what they think they know about him. The thing that people are posting here getting mad because Neil believed that prince disliked Miles Davis as a person is a good example of that. I would remind folks that this is Neil's book and covers Neil's experience with prince, and is different than what prince presented to the public or to other people. I don't think Neil tells a single lie in this book, and he's very open about what he doesn't know.

There's definitely some tragic stuff in here about Prince believing in his created persona to his own detriment. Wendy Melvoin has talks about how prince never stopped being the "rockstar" enough to have been able to ask for help when he was dealing with addiction, and Neil deep dives into that idea further. Prince could never show that kind of "weakness", and was ashamed. There are things in this book which are painful to read for those of us that loved Prince, and whose lives were elevated by his music and grand visions.

Neil has done a real service in telling the truth about what he knew about this extraordinary musician. The narrative of who Prince was gets fleshed out in a more human way. I believe this is one of the most unique books about prince, and will be one of the most important for historians.

I grew up in Minneapolis, and i'm also very appreciative of the picture of Minnesota and it's stifling culture that Neil paints. I don't think I have ever seen or read such an accurate portrayal of this anywhere, and it's actually very important to Prince's story.

.... There's actually no evidence that Neal had any special relationship with Prince. He wrote a few articles, possibly did the Dawn project, and himself claimed he didn't want to be Prince's bobo, so he insulted him and distanced himself. His interviews with CJ in April 2016 speak for themselves. There is plenty of evidence that Prince admired and was in the same room with Miles Davis. Prince felt unstifled enough to perform in his underwear and record albums like Dirty Mind. A successful black icon in what Neal once called the whitest state in America. How are the rest of Minnesota's successful businessmen and CEOs represented, I wonder. My guess is that they are not being chastized for not hugging staff when they break up with a girlfriend. Apprarently Prince not crying on Alan Leeds' shoulder when he broke up with Kim Basinger scarred him for life. [Edited 10/11/20 2:32am]

Doesn't seem like you read the book, Moody.

[Edited 10/11/20 2:48am]

JudasLChrist said:

MoodyBlumes said:

JudasLChrist said: .... There's actually no evidence that Neal had any special relationship with Prince. He wrote a few articles, possibly did the Dawn project, and himself claimed he didn't want to be Prince's bobo, so he insulted him and distanced himself. His interviews with CJ in April 2016 speak for themselves. There is plenty of evidence that Prince admired and was in the same room with Miles Davis. Prince felt unstifled enough to perform in his underwear and record albums like Dirty Mind. A successful black icon in what Neal once called the whitest state in America. How are the rest of Minnesota's successful businessmen and CEOs represented, I wonder. My guess is that they are not being chastized for not hugging staff when they break up with a girlfriend. Apprarently Prince not crying on Alan Leeds' shoulder when he broke up with Kim Basinger scarred him for life. [Edited 10/11/20 2:32am]

Doesn't seem like you read the book, Moody.

[Edited 10/11/20 2:48am]

Your comment is as hollow as the book. He claims Judith Hill said that Prince's final words before he 'nodding off' were "I'm tired. I think God is calling me home."

.

Have you read Judith's police investigation report? Because I have... and this statement is nowhere. And this is just one easily fact checkable item.

MoodyBlumes said:

JudasLChrist said:

Doesn't seem like you read the book, Moody.

[Edited 10/11/20 2:48am]

Your comment is as hollow as the book. He claims Judith Hill said that Prince's final words before he 'nodding off' were "I'm tired. I think God is calling me home."

.

Have you read Judith's police investigation report? Because I have... and this statement is nowhere. And this is just one easily fact checkable item.

It's a good book. You don't have to like it. It would help if you read it before you makde that decision.

[Edited 10/11/20 3:02am]

JudasLChrist said:

JudasLChrist said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Your comment is as hollow as the book. He claims Judith Hill said that Prince's final words before he 'nodding off' were "I'm tired. I think God is calling me home."

.

Have you read Judith's police investigation report? Because I have... and this statement is nowhere. And this is just one easily fact checkable item.

It's a good book. You don't have to like it.

You claim that Neal has done a service by telling the truth -- he has not told the truth.

dodger said:

JudasLChrist said:

There's a discalaimer in an earlier chapter that none of it is fictional, actually. He takes great pains to communicate that he is telling an un-fictionalized account.

But it looks like that’s been disproved with the ‘last phone call’ and Sonny Liston stories

No I don't think it has.

JudasLChrist said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Your comment is as hollow as the book. He claims Judith Hill said that Prince's final words before he 'nodding off' were "I'm tired. I think God is calling me home."

.

Have you read Judith's police investigation report? Because I have... and this statement is nowhere. And this is just one easily fact checkable item.

It's a good book. You don't have to like it. It would help if you read it before you makde that decision.

[Edited 10/11/20 3:02am]

I am quoting from the book... perhaps you should read it.