Is the cut-off for "real friend" really just taping private conversations? Not uhhhh.... writing an entire book on your "friend"?

TrivialPursuit said:

I just have to say this: I've not read any book written about Prince after he died, except Duane's on the Purple Rain Sessions, and Mayte's book. I mean, she married ol' dude. Hers is exactly the story I wanted to hear first. (Even Manuela would get a nod from me. Susannah would. Wendy & Lisa would. I think the Revolution should write a book the way the original MTV VJs did for I Want My MTV or Motley Crue did for The Dirt where everyone has a few paragraphs for their version or take on a subject or story. Kinda shoots 5 birds with one stone.) I didn't buy all the magazines etc that people pushed out to capitalize on his death. It's not a collector or completist's goal to buy all that shit anyway. I swear sometimes a person could slap Prince on a box of tampons or nail polish remover, and some Prince fans would lose their shit and a large part of their bank account.

All these other people writing books - I'm just not interested. Granted, people like Dez or Mark writing a book can serve as some useful insight, but anyone else who wasn't there, I don't care. They can offer nothing new to the narrative. And really, not everyone has a book to write, nor should they. Interviews in podcasts or other videos is fine and is enough. Duane's book(s) are more technical and those are the details a lot of us enjoy; recording dates, sessions, etc. It picks up where stuff like DMSR or The Vault left off in documenting things.

Some people seem to know Neal Karlan, I don't. Others don't. I've never heard dude's name. If he's listed in the credits of an album, I must've missed it or it was just that unimpressive that I've forgotten about it. But reviews seem to be negative as hell anyway, so even better reason to skip it. Hell, I'd be more likely to read a 5000 word article by Lenny from WB than this book by Karlan.

It's kind of odd you've written like 3 lengthy posts on how "you don't know him" yet won't Google for 3 seconds to find out (or just read the thread at this point, it's been intimated who he is pretty explicitly)?

.

Like Mariah "I don't know her" J-Lo over the top.... and you keep coming back with distant threadspace inbetween just to reassert you don't know him.

[Edited 10/8/20 20:55pm]

JudasLChrist said:

purplethunder3121 said:

You must be the publicist...

I'm a musician and a homelessness activist in San Francisco!

I bet you're busy.

I'm about 2/3 finished. There are a number of mild-to- moderate factual errors but I feel he has some good insights into Prince. MY BS-meter is not clanging.

He was brave to mention some things which will set-off some stans.

I appreciate his humor; some of the Jewish flavor.

I don't like that he only left 67 days to write it. He could have fact-checked more.

onlyforaminute said:

Out of curiosity from people who liked the book what is your overall impression of Prince? I ask because I don't feel he painted a truly negative picture of him given what's been said for all these years. Yes he said many negative things but then countered them with explanations. Maybe my meter is off. [Edited 10/8/20 17:35pm]

I think it was sympathetic though wide-ranging. He sometimes liked Prince, sometimes questioned him, was at times pissed etc. That's how life is...

I appreciate that someone dove in deeper and was not tip-toeing as most do.

Margot said:

JudasLChrist said:

I'm a musician and a homelessness activist in San Francisco!

I bet you're busy...BTW, I stand with most of your assessment.

[Edited 10/8/20 23:05pm]

Number23 said:

Just finished it there. Revelatory, if true. But a lot of my suspicions over the years were confirmed. Certainly looks like that skanky street dealer the Daily Mail dug up the day after he died was telling the truth. Addicted to painkillers since Purple Rain. Bipolar traits. Serious cognitive dissonance. Body was absolutely fucked since Parade. Double hip transplant. Kept on swearing til the end. Hated Miles Davis (!). Unceasingly cynical and hateful. Despised most people, only saw weakness. Loathed brownnosing. Used friends as extension of self for personal gain. Could only empathise with Mozart. Major working class chip on his shoulder. Lied about his mother continually because she didn’t protect him from John‘s bestings. Extreme childhood trauma. Lied about ... everything. Constantly. Mainly to himself. ‘Our family exists’. Never recovered from the death of his child. Believed it was his God’s punishment for so-called explicit lyrics and behaviour. Wrapped himself in so many layers of that he had no idea who he was anymore. Viewed his gift as a curse, his genius his daemon. Got rid of anyone who got too close. Was losing feeling in his arms and legs. Talked of suicide often. Died alone. I feel sick, actually.

Just adding to my earlier comments about Miles. Here are Prince's own words -- at 13:40 of this interview with Tavis Smiley:

https://www.youtube.com/w...amp;t=522s

"I'm thankful enough, or blessed enough, to say that Miles Davis was a friend when he was alive. And he was a wonderful mentor and really, really funny. And he could critique something you've done by humor and out of love, rather than just call you a punk and just dismiss you -- he wasn't like that because people he cared about he tried to help."

.

Miles on Prince: "Hell, he's got it all! Multi-musician with a damned vengeance! As a drummer he can hold it down, you know what I'm sayin'? There's not many cats can nail it tight with current technology makin' most drummers damn near obsolete. As a guitar player... he puts out! Plus, he's a goddamn great piano player. Matter of fact, he's about as good as they get, and I've worked with the best, I should know!" (Miles on Miles, Interviews and Encounters with Miles Davis)

I hope that those who are criticizing actually read the book.

MoodyBlumes said:

Number23 said:

Just finished it there. Revelatory, if true. But a lot of my suspicions over the years were confirmed. Certainly looks like that skanky street dealer the Daily Mail dug up the day after he died was telling the truth. Addicted to painkillers since Purple Rain. Bipolar traits. Serious cognitive dissonance. Body was absolutely fucked since Parade. Double hip transplant. Kept on swearing til the end. Hated Miles Davis (!). Unceasingly cynical and hateful. Despised most people, only saw weakness. Loathed brownnosing. Used friends as extension of self for personal gain. Could only empathise with Mozart. Major working class chip on his shoulder. Lied about his mother continually because she didn’t protect him from John‘s bestings. Extreme childhood trauma. Lied about ... everything. Constantly. Mainly to himself. ‘Our family exists’. Never recovered from the death of his child. Believed it was his God’s punishment for so-called explicit lyrics and behaviour. Wrapped himself in so many layers of that he had no idea who he was anymore. Viewed his gift as a curse, his genius his daemon. Got rid of anyone who got too close. Was losing feeling in his arms and legs. Talked of suicide often. Died alone. I feel sick, actually.

Just adding to my earlier comments about Miles. Here are Prince's own words -- at 13:40 of this interview with Tavis Smiley:

https://www.youtube.com/w...amp;t=522s

"I'm thankful enough, or blessed enough, to say that Miles Davis was a friend when he was alive. And he was a wonderful mentor and really, really funny. And he could critique something you've done by humor and out of love, rather than just call you a punk and just dismiss you -- he wasn't like that because people he cared about he tried to help."

.

Miles on Prince: "Hell, he's got it all! Multi-musician with a damned vengeance! As a drummer he can hold it down, you know what I'm sayin'? There's not many cats can nail it tight with current technology makin' most drummers damn near obsolete. As a guitar player... he puts out! Plus, he's a goddamn great piano player. Matter of fact, he's about as good as they get, and I've worked with the best, I should know!" (Miles on Miles, Interviews and Encounters with Miles Davis)

Prince was very diplomatic when speaking in public or on TV.

Margot said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Just adding to my earlier comments about Miles. Here are Prince's own words -- at 13:40 of this interview with Tavis Smiley:

https://www.youtube.com/w...amp;t=522s

"I'm thankful enough, or blessed enough, to say that Miles Davis was a friend when he was alive. And he was a wonderful mentor and really, really funny. And he could critique something you've done by humor and out of love, rather than just call you a punk and just dismiss you -- he wasn't like that because people he cared about he tried to help."

.

Miles on Prince: "Hell, he's got it all! Multi-musician with a damned vengeance! As a drummer he can hold it down, you know what I'm sayin'? There's not many cats can nail it tight with current technology makin' most drummers damn near obsolete. As a guitar player... he puts out! Plus, he's a goddamn great piano player. Matter of fact, he's about as good as they get, and I've worked with the best, I should know!" (Miles on Miles, Interviews and Encounters with Miles Davis)

Prince was very diplomatic when speaking in public or on TV.

Not sure I understand? I trust you also read my earlier post regarding Miles.

[Edited 10/8/20 23:29pm]

The Percocet story was a bit much...

tab32792 said:

He claimed to not have heard any music for at least 10 years. Haven’t seen him or talked to him in years or been to a show and yet they’re ... friends? By what definition? He got just as close to prince as most journalists. He only let you into his world as much as he allowed which in reality wasn’t much. Now that he’s gone folks can do and say what they want and it’s sickening. I know we dig and love him so much but do we really need all this chit chat? Are we really that hard up for info? We helped with this song, this song was about me, I was Prince’s “friend”, I could’ve saved him, he was reaching out, I started his vault, I inspired this song, I baked him a very common cake, etc. all this stuff is ridiculous. Some truth is in there but it’s definitely embellished and I see why he sent cease and desist letters.

-

Well you are a free as a bird to not read it, nor respond to it.

-

Thing is Prince was a smart thief, he surrounded him with those that could provide him a window on the outside world, where he didn't take part of - at the time spending his complete young life locked in studios, rehearsals and gigs.

I'm quite convinced that ideas from others were more than welcome.

He had a very open mind and sucked it all in, whatever that was provided or happening around him.

Don't forget our little fella wasn't much of a talker, or conversationalist - not when he was at the top.

Lateron, he became more mature.

-

tab32792 said:

Also, now everybody is a therapist? These projections are insane. “If Prince was here, we wouldn’t have any of this information or stories” ... Well I’m here to tell you, there’s something else...his life and privacy. Prince was at the very least an artist and musician. He didn’t owe us shit beyond that lol I think we’ve gotten so far gone and wrapped up in grief or borderline obsession(???) that we think and feel like we are owed all of this. We aren’t. This is what he meant by fanatic. It’s a negative word in the dictionary. He’s not here to defend, confirm or deny anything unfortunately. Even the stuff he said when he was here has either been misinterpreted or dismissed (ebony interview anyone?) It’s a travesty honestly. But just because folks were “there” doesn’t mean we have to take everything so factual.

-

Fact check is a freedom provided to all of us, and to those who are willing to do the work.

And, don't read what you don't like if it hurts you.

All great artists are being investigated, turned around and torn appart to the very last piece and to the very end of times.

That's what we all want, to try to understand every little piece of an Artist, something we can never be. That's the sad and facinating part of it all.

-

Margot said:

I hope that those who are criticizing actually read the book.

Yeah, quite. So many of the criticisms here just don't stand up when you read the book rather than just the excerpts (or the speculation about Karlen's motives). I'd say overall the book reveals (a) how much Karlen was in awe of Prince and (b) how much he liked/loved the guy. But he really really didn't like John Nelson.

Margot said:

I hope that those who are criticizing actually read the book.

On the contrary, many of us aren't even criticizing the book but the person.

.

He has told countless lies about Prince in interviews, contradicted himself more times than you can count. Has said utterly disgusting things about Prince, even when he was still alive. There is not a chance in hell I would give this human garbage one cent of my money to read his obvious fairytales.

.

It baffles me of that so many of you are just writing off our criticisms of Neal when you have next to NO knowledge of the history of this guy. That just makes YOU look stupid. You can ignore the facts all you want, you can accept his lame excuses for his previous transgressions, you can wave away all of his contradictory statements with whatever excuses you feel like.

.

You're probably just too proud to admit in a public forum that you got duped out of your $$$ by this conman and that's fine. You've been HAD.

.

We know you were and that's all that matters.

.

[Edited 10/9/20 1:53am]

rednblue said:

fragglerock said:

newsflash : Neal really doesn't care if you love him or hate him, or if you like or hate his book.

he's already got your money suckers, a very familiar position i've noticed from many people since April 2016

You don't know that is true of Neal, any more than you know what Prince truly cared about, or didn't.

People like you and me are speculating.

Sorry if pointing this out is over the top, but I'm amazed by how many people think writing books about a star is the way to go for a big hourly pay rate. If you're not a star, and it's money you're after...you don't waste time writing a book.

It's amazing how many suckers believe that idea, just because someone on the internet says it's true.

-

That!

-

Prince had an agenda. Probably several agendas. (His family surely was one of them)

He had a lot to keep going when he became a star, and keeping up lots of appearances.

Trying to have his private life and exposed stardom miles apart from eachother.

Having those close to him and around him signing documents to not tell anything, etc.

Says a lot about either fear and/or not trusting your people for the results of how you treated them. Sure, understandably he had a carreer to protect (at all costs?).

It all had to come out one day. He must've known that, he was far from stupid, but pretty stubborn, and difficult to handle.

The guy was deeply hurt, that's clear by now, very deeply even.

And that made him human and beautiful to me.

I think I like Prince more as a (musician, then of course as a) human rather than a star.

And most of all I love him for his tremendous virtuosity on all professional and artistic levels. Notto forget his unmeassureable creativity.

He could not communicate well, could barely conversate, but mostly did it through the blurness and mysteries of his lyrics (and of course his music). And sometimes he succeeded in that, rarely though, at least to me.

-

So the riddles and puzzles are endless... if you like to find out, you need a lifetime.

Cause most things happened when they all were 'young'; Prince and his entourage were so so so young when he reached the top.

Give it all a break, and filter what's important to you.

There is so much freedom to not respond to whatever someone has written in a book or an article, or tried to expained.

It's a big big pile of unclear purple data, and we are merely the slow computers or a slow RAM memory.

-

The negativity spread all over here is becoming annoying, just to get one's often unfactual point ehcoed all over this fan site with personal blame.

Prince for one wanted to be (a) good (person). He lost himself in several religions to find what he never could find. He gathered us here to get through this thing called HIS life.

He got big on a very young age, left the street for straight up luxurious stardom.

Isolated (protected) himself from all and everything that could enven touch or hurt him.

He was not the deep self reflective kind, although he desparetly wanted so much to be understood and loved. The acceptance and recognition and (superficial) fan/fam/fanatics-love he had in his pocket.

I read somewhere that it seems as if the whole sex subject was a distraction, but I don't want to believe that myself. I do believe he lost himself in there in a good way. It was his personal outlet of joy and respect (towards women). It's what made him so attractive and interesting, at least to me.

-

All this is my humble opinion of course. Never met the guy in person.

-

fragglerock said:

Margot said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Just adding to my earlier comments about Miles. Here are Prince's own words -- at 13:40 of this interview with Tavis Smiley:

https://www.youtube.com/w...amp;t=522s

"I'm thankful enough, or blessed enough, to say that Miles Davis was a friend when he was alive. And he was a wonderful mentor and really, really funny. And he could critique something you've done by humor and out of love, rather than just call you a punk and just dismiss you -- he wasn't like that because people he cared about he tried to help."

.

Miles on Prince: "Hell, he's got it all! Multi-musician with a damned vengeance! As a drummer he can hold it down, you know what I'm sayin'? There's not many cats can nail it tight with current technology makin' most drummers damn near obsolete. As a guitar player... he puts out! Plus, he's a goddamn great piano player. Matter of fact, he's about as good as they get, and I've worked with the best, I should know!" (Miles on Miles, Interviews and Encounters with Miles Davis)

Prince was very diplomatic when speaking in public or on TV.

-

You're right about that he's diplomatic.

-

I just re-watched that tavis Smiley interview he gave throught that link (thank you MoodyBlumes).

-

Gosh that was good. I nearly forgot about that.

I remember hearing it back in 2009 , but wasn't all that much into Prince anymore.

But damn ! THAT interview right there, he is quite open, normal, relaxed, sure he's a bit deplomatic, this is TV, but from what I hear him saying, it feels 'right'. It feels like Prince actually felt at ease telling all these personal stuff we already know somehow, but to hear it from him... and certainlythe way he does it. Talking about his obvious worse side even, he doesn't want us to know.

Aa for the first time I noticed him talking without that mystery and unclearness about it all.

Sure the jehove shit and blah, but this time it felt acceptable. Not that I agree, but he had a normal fluent kinda happy ping-pong conversation, right there. Well Tavis is also a person with a very natural wonder to put one at ease.

-

ThatWhiteDude said:

fragglerock said:

On the contrary, many of us aren't even criticizing the book but the person.

.

He has told countless lies about Prince in interviews, contradicted himself more times than you can count. Has said utterly disgusting things about Prince, even when he was still alive. There is not a chance in hell I would give this human garbage one cent of my money to read his obvious fairytales.

.

It baffles me of that so many of you are just writing off our criticisms of Neal when you have next to NO knowledge of the history of this guy. That just makes YOU look stupid. You can ignore the facts all you want, you can accept his lame excuses for his previous transgressions, you can wave away all of his contradictory statements with whatever excuses you feel like.

.

You're probably just too proud to admit in a public forum that you got duped out of your $$$ by this conman and that's fine. You've been HAD.

.

We know you were and that's all that matters.

.

[Edited 10/9/20 1:53am]

it's baffling to me that some here completely ignore the fact that the criticism is for neal as a person. Maybe cause they can't shake off the facts so they just claim we criticize the book.

-

Why would you critisize someone you never met ?

-

It's better not to critisize people for what you think they are.

Sure you can absolutely disagree for what they say or write, and even then it is better accepted when it is done with funded explanations, open for a polite debate, and not for a fight of right and wrong. Skip the blunt Trumpism. It sours the spirit and doesn't go anywhere.

And I don't believe in any man made god, but one should give credit every fucking single new day to whomever you like AND don't like.

Everyone has the right to that, certainly those who speak out publicaly and you don't know personally.

I do not agree with Trump for what he publically says and does on every level.

But I never met him, so personally I can't critisize if he's a bad or good father for instance, whatever. (But taking him as an example is right now really not a good idea. Change that with Pence. LOL)

At least that's my humble opinion and approach of life.

Peace though.

-

Vannormal said:

MoodyBlumes said:

No doubt everyone on the thread has already read this book, but just in case I link to Neal's 'Shanda: The Making and Breaking of a Self-Loathing Jew.' - https://www.goodreads.com...107.Shanda

"At midlife Karlen discovers that he belongs nowhere and that the Jew he really hates is himself. He is a "shanda" -- a shame."

""Shanda" is Karlen's story of finding his way back to Judaism -- and the Jewish community."

.

At the end of his book, Neal claims Prince was spiritually dead. At the Piano and Microphone concert I attended, Prince got on his knees on the stage floor and prayed in front of the audience before he started the concert. What if Prince had written the same on Neal (after he passed), calling him a part-time jew, and 'spiritually dead', as Neal writes in his book. What would be the reaction?

.

Many have spoken about Prince's religious beliefs -- Larry Graham moved from Jamaica to be his spiritual mentor, Kevin Smith's piece was hilarious as he describes recording 4 hours of Prince's sermon at Paisley and ran out of tape... Here is Prince's family speaking about George Lopez who was helping them financially after Prince's passing; and George talking about how Prince wanted to be his bible teacher... and stop swearing -- https://www.etonline.com/...gers_death

.

Larry Graham was a bit closer to Prince than Neal.

We lost a spiritual brother in Prince:

https://theiconicprince.w...in-prince/

"Prince was particularly drawn to biblical messages of a hopeful future, he said. One of his favorite passages was Revelations 21:3-4, which states that God ultimately will dwell with his people and that “death will be no more.”

“The resurrection and the hope for the future — and many more [passages] — we discussed many weeks and many months and years,” Graham said.

"One thing Prince learned was to be “a positive person,” Graham said. He ate and drank in moderation. He stopped cursing. And he stopped writing the raunchy lyrics that characterized some of his early work.

“A lot of people will remember Prince for his music,” he added. “But he’d also want people to know what he learned from the Bible. We lost a really good friend and a spiritual brother.”

.

Here are Prince's own words about his religion:

https://www.youtube.com/w...NCLZBixxYw

.

"(Maceo) Parker is rigorously even-handed with his praise, but out of all his collaborators, there is one who appears to have made a monumental impression. "Prince was really a sweetheart. When the heavens open up, the first think you are gonna see is Prince. That's the way I feel. Oh man, I'm telling you, I almost can't put it into words how that felt, just being that close to him, walking around Paisley Park, coming up with new stuff..." Parker's voice trails off. He worked with Prince on seven albums, and it is clear he still misses his dear friend."

https://www.forbes.com/si...fd93ee2ca5

[Edited 10/8/20 23:54pm]

To your point about respect for someone's spirituality, Prince asked someone who had been a close friend to publicly renounce her Judaism.

Neal is Jewish, and he lost a lot of family in the Holocaust. Neil hung up on Prince when they first spoke of the incident.

Many here keep saying we are missing their point...saying that their judgment is not about the work (journalism, books, music), but about character (Neal as a person). They say we should understand that they don't want anything to do with Neal's book because of his character.

So by the logic of many here, events like that...the way in which Prince speaks of a former band member's spirituality...should have us wanting nothing to do with Prince.

Well, that's not what Neal decided. It had him upset enough to hang up on Prince that day. But Neal said that in the big picture, it wasn't reason to cut off Prince.

And FWIW, having read Neal's book and being one who listens to a TON of Prince's music, I'm continuing with both. Not going to eject future reading and listening from my life.

fragglerock said:

Margot said:

I hope that those who are criticizing actually read the book.

On the contrary, many of us aren't even criticizing the book but the person.

.

He has told countless lies about Prince in interviews, contradicted himself more times than you can count. Has said utterly disgusting things about Prince, even when he was still alive. There is not a chance in hell I would give this human garbage one cent of my money to read his obvious fairytales.

.

It baffles me of that so many of you are just writing off our criticisms of Neal when you have next to NO knowledge of the history of this guy. That just makes YOU look stupid. You can ignore the facts all you want, you can accept his lame excuses for his previous transgressions, you can wave away all of his contradictory statements with whatever excuses you feel like.

.

You're probably just too proud to admit in a public forum that you got duped out of your $$$ by this conman and that's fine. You've been HAD.

.

We know you were and that's all that matters.

.

[Edited 10/9/20 1:53am]

Wow. You sure know a lot about the book industry. And you also know a remarkable amount about the state of other Orgers' hearts and minds.

Are you some sort of omniscient god?

For me, I've gotten much from Prince's music and Neal's writing. Happy to have spent the money I've spent on music and writing.

As far as "duped," everyone here could label anyone else here as duped.

If you agree with others here that the appropriate response to perceiving a significant character issue (e.g. heavy disrespect for someone's spirituality, etc.)...

if you agree that the appropriate response is to immediately cut off someone's work...

then go ahead and cut off the writing, music, art, etc.

[Edited 10/9/20 7:57am]

I woke up thinking about this book. It is intense. And though, it does have some factual errors

and I don't necessarily agree with one of his points, ie., that Prince muddied Santana's carpets because he wanted to "mark his territory". I think it was that taking off his boots would have made Prince shorter.

I think this book talks about how Prince tried to control his reality and forbade people to look in or question. He admitted to not having a 'no' person.

It addresses some of his methods, his mind-set, the impact his father had on him, what growing up in No. Minnie contributed to personality, basketball, the influence of Muhammed Ali, his need for power, his humor.

I acutally have come away with even more respect and understanding, though there is alot of darkness.

I love the line, "Prince had alot of time to be a genius'...I won't spoil it but it confirmed what i had suspected.

It's not a perfect book by any means but I appreciate he didn't sugar coat or stan.

fragglerock said:

THIS.

fragglerock said:

Margot said:

I hope that those who are criticizing actually read the book.

On the contrary, many of us aren't even criticizing the book but the person.

.

He has told countless lies about Prince in interviews, contradicted himself more times than you can count. Has said utterly disgusting things about Prince, even when he was still alive. There is not a chance in hell I would give this human garbage one cent of my money to read his obvious fairytales.

.

It baffles me of that so many of you are just writing off our criticisms of Neal when you have next to NO knowledge of the history of this guy. That just makes YOU look stupid. You can ignore the facts all you want, you can accept his lame excuses for his previous transgressions, you can wave away all of his contradictory statements with whatever excuses you feel like.

.

You're probably just too proud to admit in a public forum that you got duped out of your $$$ by this conman and that's fine. You've been HAD.

.

We know you were and that's all that matters.

.

[Edited 10/9/20 1:53am]

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

THIS.

fragglerock said:

On the contrary, many of us aren't even criticizing the book but the person.

.

He has told countless lies about Prince in interviews, contradicted himself more times than you can count. Has said utterly disgusting things about Prince, even when he was still alive. There is not a chance in hell I would give this human garbage one cent of my money to read his obvious fairytales.

.

It baffles me of that so many of you are just writing off our criticisms of Neal when you have next to NO knowledge of the history of this guy. That just makes YOU look stupid. You can ignore the facts all you want, you can accept his lame excuses for his previous transgressions, you can wave away all of his contradictory statements with whatever excuses you feel like.

.

You're probably just too proud to admit in a public forum that you got duped out of your $$$ by this conman and that's fine. You've been HAD.

.

We know you were and that's all that matters.

.

[Edited 10/9/20 1:53am]

I find it humourous when some orgers insist on scolding, shaming, making decisions for others as to what reading material they are allowed.

I read everything about everyone, then I make my own decisions.

I experienced enough dogma growing up Catholic and later living near the Berkeley epicenter to last

several lifetimes.

[Edited 10/9/20 11:04am]

I've read fairly widely about Prince, probably 12-15 books, including Per Nilson's and

Duane Tudahl's work.

As a fully independent adult, I feel it is important to critically think and form opinions

without obeying what others have decided is true.

For whatever reason, Prince made himself fairly inpenetrable/inscrutable. Most biographers will likely

look into that trait at sometime as it obscures who he was.

I don't think Neal is that person and I do have questions about some of his motives, but it does

not stop me from looking at what he has to say and as a critical thinker, picking and choosing what rings true to me.

I do appreciate his looking more deeply into the 'whys' of Prince's behavior/choices.

It is not easy to unpack Prince because he did muddy the waters and there were many who feared him. There is still residual fear, IMO.

[Edited 10/9/20 12:30pm]

Margot said:

I've read fairly widely about Prince, probably 12-15 books, including Per Nilson's and

Duane Tudahl's work.

As a fully independent adult, I feel it is important to critically think and form opinions

without obeying what others have decided is true.

For whatever reason, Prince made himself fairly inpenetrable/inscrutable. Most biographers will likely

look into that trait at sometime as it obscures who he was.

I don't think Neal is that person and I do have questions about some of his motives, but it does

not stop me from looking at what he has to say and as a critical thinker, picking and choosing what rings true to me.

I do appreciate his looking more deeply into the 'whys' of Prince's behavior/choices.

It is not easy to unpack Prince because he did muddy the waters and there were many who feared him. There is still residual fear, IMO.

[Edited 10/9/20 12:30pm]

A lot of the book is about how Prince muddied the waters. I also have been reading Prince bios since the 80s. The first one being Jon Bream's Prince's Purple Reign which subsequent Prince biographers copped from heavily, and for years was the best Prince book until Dance Music Sex Romance and then Possessed. Actually the best public info about Prince for years came from Neal Karlen's Rolling Stone interviews.

I don't question Neal's motives. I have personal stories about Prince that sound like full on fucking lies to people when I've written about them here on the org, and in-fact contradict something that Neal says about P in the book. Which is to say that truth is stranger than fiction sometimes, and extraordianry situations happen. I'm reading things critically, but everything more or less tracks.

JudasLChrist said:

Margot said:

I've read fairly widely about Prince, probably 12-15 books, including Per Nilson's and

Duane Tudahl's work.

As a fully independent adult, I feel it is important to critically think and form opinions

without obeying what others have decided is true.

For whatever reason, Prince made himself fairly inpenetrable/inscrutable. Most biographers will likely

look into that trait at sometime as it obscures who he was.

I don't think Neal is that person and I do have questions about some of his motives, but it does

not stop me from looking at what he has to say and as a critical thinker, picking and choosing what rings true to me.

I do appreciate his looking more deeply into the 'whys' of Prince's behavior/choices.

It is not easy to unpack Prince because he did muddy the waters and there were many who feared him. There is still residual fear, IMO.

[Edited 10/9/20 12:30pm]

A lot of the book is about how Prince muddied the waters. I also have been reading Prince bios since the 80s. The first one being Jon Bream's Prince's Purple Reign which subsequent Prince biographers copped from heavily, and for years was the best Prince book until Dance Music Sex Romance and then Possessed. Actually the best public info about Prince for years came from Neal Karlen's Rolling Stone interviews.

I don't question Neal's motives. I have personal stories about Prince that sound like full on fucking lies to people when I've written about them here on the org, and in-fact contradict something that Neal says about P in the book. Which is to say that truth is stranger than fiction sometimes, and extraordianry situations happen. I'm reading things critically, but everything more or less tracks.

I'm waiting to see if Bream response to Neal's massive diss of him and his book...