PennyPurple said:

JudasLChrist said:

Have you ever had a friend die from an overdose? Do you have freinds who are addicts now? Do you blame yourself for their addiction or their death? You shouldn't.

[Edited 10/13/20 18:03pm]

Nope, Nope, and if they did I would do everything in my power to help them and get help for them. I wouldn't stand by and let them take my pills, and stay silent.

I have and do. I politely request that you get down off your high horse.

JudasLChrist said:

PennyPurple said:

Nope, Nope, and if they did I would do everything in my power to help them and get help for them. I wouldn't stand by and let them take my pills, and stay silent.

I have and do. I politely request that you get down off your high horse.

You do you, and I'll do me.

PennyPurple said:

JudasLChrist said:

Completely unsubstantiated. Still today when the topic of Prince's death come up people will pop in with things like "I feel that he was murdered". They just go to the darkest possible place without any actual evidence at all. Neal told a story about what he observed. No need to kill the messenger.

And yet, he did nothing about it??

Apparently not... Prince went to a Rolling Stone journalist's pad, popped back a whole bunch of his 'unlimited' pain meds, and the incident never occurred or was spoken about again.

PennyPurple said:

JudasLChrist said:

I have and do. I politely request that you get down off your high horse.

You do you, and I'll do me.

Gross.

So we have no idea if/proof that story is true? Yet some are just assuming it is because?

Unfortunately, there are always several orgers who attempt to prohibit conversations that they have deemed off limits.

Shushing 5-10 orgers who wish to have a conversation does nothing to stop what the general public thinks or has been exposed to.

That's a much bigger problem for them. I don't see any of these folks attempting to shush on a larger, more important level...press conferences, rebuttals on talk shows, rebuttals in publications, etc.

It's called Public Relations.

[Edited 10/14/20 8:47am]

[Edited 10/14/20 11:33am]

Margot said:

One of the premises of the book is about looking into the persona, how it was structured and why. I'm afraid that many fans cannot handle this news.

The other is about sharing some of the 'real' Prince

• Perhaps, the last call happened or not; it is known that Prince did spend earlier time with Neal and did call him over the years and they did talk deeply.
• There is alot of focus here on the peripherals.

Though Prince was young, early mid-twenties, he was still about 10 years older than many of

his eventual hard-core fans. I'm certain he was sincere in many of his lyrics but he had a

strong marketing mind as well and was in the business of crossing over (with help from Howard Bloom) and speaking to some who were socially disenfranchised, others struggling with sexual identity, still others who related to the rule-breaking, strong sexuality etc. Some of this approach was to grow a following.

To this day, few really know who he was and therefore many can project what they need him to be

or what he sold.

As mature people we need to be able to look at him more objectively as he was an iconic artist who will be evaluated by writers. Just get ready.

[Edited 10/11/20 11:55am]

I appreciate what you're saying, Margot cuz I remember at age 12 seeing P on the cover of Right On! magazine promoting his Controversy album and thinking then that 'he's a heartbreak walkin'....and I was just 12 years old thinking that then. Yes, I stayed a fam until the day he passed and beyond, but I was never a fool that something was up. I just chose to keep my feelings to myself and stayed in the far background with my fanship. So yaw'll can take all this how you want. I choose to stay open minded as have many of us. He was human, he is loved, and will always be loved. Let's just keep it real.

So what do y'all think about Neal claiming Muhammad Ali was responsible for the death of Sonny Liston?

.

"During their eight rounds Clay took away Liston’s heavyweight championship, his manhood, and his basic will to go on. Six years later, Sonny was found dead in his Las Vegas home from a heroin overdose."

MoodyBlumes said:

fragglerock said:

How can y'all still be talking about this? And as for the stupid assumption that P fans can't 'handle the truth' what a damn joke Fact is Neal is a proven liar and an awful human being which he has proven on multiple occasions. You can debate all you want but the facts are the facts.

Why don't you take your critique of Neal to broader outlets in defense of Prince instead of the 10 orgers you are trying to convince?.

There are 5-6 of you likely involved with the estate (peripherally or otherwise) Let them know they need to branch out and speak to a wider audience.

Just tryin to give a lesson in PR.

Margot said:

fragglerock said:

How can y'all still be talking about this? And as for the stupid assumption that P fans can't 'handle the truth' what a damn joke Fact is Neal is a proven liar and an awful human being which he has proven on multiple occasions. You can debate all you want but the facts are the facts.

Why don't you take your critique of Neal to broader outlets in defense of Prince instead of the 10 orgers you are trying to convince?.

There are 5-6 of you likely involved with the estate (peripherally or otherwise) Let them know they need to branch out and speak to a wider audience.

Just tryin to give a lesson in PR.

You have a problem with folks who disagree with you... got it. Shall I assume you also accuse Muhammad Ali for killing Sonny Liston then?

onlyforaminute said:

MoodyBlumes said:

So what do y'all think about Neal claiming Muhammad Ali was responsible for the death of Sonny Liston?

.

"During their eight rounds Clay took away Liston’s heavyweight championship, his manhood, and his basic wilhl to go on. Six years later, Sonny was found dead in his Las Vegas home from a heroin overdose."

Neal has a tendency to blame singular traumatizing events for overdoses several years after the event.

Losing a fight is a traumatizing event?

onlyforaminute said:

MoodyBlumes said:

So what do y'all think about Neal claiming Muhammad Ali was responsible for the death of Sonny Liston?

.

"During their eight rounds Clay took away Liston’s heavyweight championship, his manhood, and his basic wilhl to go on. Six years later, Sonny was found dead in his Las Vegas home from a heroin overdose."

Neal has a tendency to blame singular traumatizing events for overdoses several years after the event.

Went for lighter but fun ("sexy dancer" ) threads during breaks earlier today.

Did mean to respond to Moody's question, and appreciate getting to read Only's response.

I believe Moody had earlier asked if we agreed that Ali was responsible for the death. All of the following allows for accepting personal responsibility for one's fate.

Short answer: no.

At the same time, do people think stigma-induced shame or trauma always has zero effect on a person's quality of life and health? If people are in a macho mood, they might be tempted to say that it should have zero influence. But I've got the same answer: no. It's not all, and it's also not nothing.

For me, I got carried away talking about blood on hands. Just get really sick of encountering ignorant stigma.

Appreciate Neal emphasizing (what I see as partly stigma-induced) shame. IMO, the destructive force is brought up way too little, not blown up way too much. Is it so bad to hope for less of that destruction?

I mostly do that outside of Prince-related stuff, but sometimes comes to mind here. Like stuff I read here and other purple places in 2016 when some people said there was no way people they admired could do something unwise, even a little unwise, with substances affecting the brain. "The people I admire are no addicts, and they are in complete control of everything they consume and put out. Always. I don't admire scum that aren't." A few of the statements were sad, and IMO messed up in multiple ways. Like I could write down a list of the ways. Statements of the ilk of "I don't suffer no cripples."

Anyone who does have a struggle with a substance, and hides it well, is likely to hear the voices that write off such struggles with scorn.

Sorry to be yakking so much about family, but my grandmother also died from cancer. She died from throat cancer. When it came time to put her feet up after a long day's work, she would bring a drink and cigarettes to the chair. My father says she was a pretty heavy smoker.

Maybe the drinks and cigarettes had little to do with the throat cancer, but it's not unlikely they were a factor in it being that cancer listed as cause of death.

Are my father or his brother to blame because when they went to the store, they brought their mom cigarettes along with the rest of the items on the family shopping list? I don't see it that way.

I am glad that states got something in settlements with the tobacco companies. I think Purdue pharma did a lot of damage with its business practices.

Looking for lighter thoughts, so will say that in the book, Neil references his nicotine addiction. He talks about being on one of the tours, and he says he KNEW he had to keep smoke smell away from Prince. I'm sure everyone here has heard stories of Prince reacting to smoke-aroma-ed microphones, etc.

All this also makes me think of telling my son about how I was feeling low and ate a LOT of brownies (non-enhanced, brownie lovers know that no enhancements are needed to make it like wanting just one more potato chip). My son said he'd heard eating TONS of sweet stuff can take some time off a person's life.

Then he said, "But if a brownie plate only means, like, half a day, then it's worth it." Kids crack me up.

[Edited 10/15/20 10:25am]

rednblue said:

onlyforaminute said:

MoodyBlumes said: Neal has a tendency to blame singular traumatizing events for overdoses several years after the event.

Went for lighter but fun ("sexy dancer" ) threads during breaks earlier today.

Did mean to respond to Moody's question, and appreciate getting to read Only's response.

I believe Moody had earlier asked if we agreed that Ali was responsible for the death. All of the following allows for accepting personal responsibility for one's fate.

Short answer: no.

At the same time, do people think stigma-inducing shame or trauma always has zero effect on a person's quality of life and health? If people are in a macho mood, they might be tempted to say that it does have zero influence. But I've got the same answer: no. It's not all, and it's also not nothing.

For me, I got carried away talking about blood on hands. Just get really sick of encountering ignorant stigma.

Appreciate Neal emphasizing (what I see as partly stigma-induced) shame. IMO, the destructive force is brought up way too little, not blown up way too much. Is it so bad to hope for less of that destruction?

I mostly do that outside of Prince-related stuff, but sometimes comes to mind here. Like stuff I read here and other purple places in 2016 when some people said there was no way people they admired could do something unwise, even a little unwise, with substances affecting the brain. "The people I admire are no addicts, and they are in complete control of everything they consume and put out. Always. I don't admire scum that aren't." A few of the statements were sad, and IMO messed up in multiple ways. Like I could write down a list of the ways. Statements of the ilk of "I don't suffer no cripples."

Anyone who does have a struggle with a substance, and hides it well, is likely to hear the voices that write off such struggles with scorn.

Sorry to be yakking so much about family, but my grandmother also died from cancer. She died from throat cancer. When it came time to put her feet up after a long day's work, she would bring a drink and cigarettes to the chair. My father says she was a pretty heavy smoker.

Maybe the drinks and cigarettes had little to do with the throat cancer, but it's not unlikely they were a factor in it being that cancer listed as cause of death.

Are my father or brother to blame because when they went to the store, they brought their mom cigarettes along with the rest of the items on the family shopping list? I don't see it that way.

I am glad that states got something in settlements with the tobacco companies. I think Purdue pharma did a lot of damage with their business practices.

Looking for lighter thoughts, so will say that in the book, Neil references his nicotine addiction. He talks about being on one of the tours, and he says he KNEW he had to keep smoke smell away from Prince. I'm sure everyone here has heard stories of Prince reacting to smoke-aroma-ed microphones, etc.

All this also makes me think of telling my son about how I was feeling low and ate a LOT of brownies (non-enhanced, brownie lovers know that no enhancements are needed to make it like wanting just one more potato chip). My son said he'd heard eating TONS of sweet stuff can take some time off a person's life.

Then he said, "But if a brownie plate only means, like, half a day, then it's worth it." Kids crack me up.

If Neal doesn't like stigma-inducing shame, then perhaps he shouldn't practise it. He does accuse Muhammad of causing Sonny's death.

[Edited 10/14/20 14:59pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

JudasLChrist said:

MoodyBlumes said:

“Blame” Is not how I read that part of the book. Neil he’s talking about shame and stigma, but I don’t see him perpetuating those things.

Really? That is an interesting interpretation.

.

"During their eight rounds Clay took away Liston’s heavyweight championship, his manhood, and his basic will to go on. Six years later, Sonny was found dead in his Las Vegas home from a heroin overdose."

MoodyBlumes said:

JudasLChrist said:

MoodyBlumes said: “Blame” Is not how I read that part of the book. Neil he’s talking about shame and stigma, but I don’t see him perpetuating those things.

Really? That is an interesting interpretation.

.

"During their eight rounds Clay took away Liston’s heavyweight championship, his manhood, and his basic will to go on. Six years later, Sonny was found dead in his Las Vegas home from a heroin overdose."

Really.

MoodyBlumes said:

roxy831 said:

JudasLChrist said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Really? That is an interesting interpretation.

.

"During their eight rounds Clay took away Liston’s heavyweight championship, his manhood, and his basic will to go on. Six years later, Sonny was found dead in his Las Vegas home from a heroin overdose."

Really.

All right, so you think that Muhammad took away Sonny's manhood and basic will to go on. Good to know.

MoodyBlumes said:

JudasLChrist said:

Really.

All right, so you think that Muhammad took away Sonny's manhood and basic will to go on. Good to know.

I don't think anything about it. It's not something I care about. Certainly not enough to let some rando on the internet pick a fight with me over it.

Neils thoughts are Neils thoughts. It's no skin off my ass, or anyone else's, really.

onlyforaminute said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Losing a fight is a traumatizing event?

Yes, based on the description of the fight. Honestly I don't know enough info on it to make that call, I'm sure others here are well versed in it and can fill in the blanks. So taking it as a soul crushing, career ending event then I standby traumatizing. I mean I watched MT bite off an ear to win so I realize these fights are taken quite seriously for those involved.

My guess is that a fighter is used to.... fighting. And Sonny had plenty of other problems.

JudasLChrist said:

MoodyBlumes said:

All right, so you think that Muhammad took away Sonny's manhood and basic will to go on. Good to know.

I don't think anything about it. It's not something I care about. Certainly not enough to let some rando on the internet pick a fight with me over it.

Neils thoughts are Neils thoughts. It's no skin off my ass, or anyone else's, really.

Accusing a black icon of being responsbile for someone's death is no skin off your ass... got it.

.

"During their eight rounds Clay took away Liston’s heavyweight championship, his manhood, and his basic will to go on. Six years later, Sonny was found dead in his Las Vegas home from a heroin overdose."

[Edited 10/14/20 18:41pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

JudasLChrist said:

I don't think anything about it. It's not something I care about. Certainly not enough to let some rando on the internet pick a fight with me over it.

Neils thoughts are Neils thoughts. It's no skin off my ass, or anyone else's, really.

Accusing a black icon of being responsbile for someone's death is no skin off your ass... got it.

.

"During their eight rounds Clay took away Liston’s heavyweight championship, his manhood, and his basic will to go on. Six years later, Sonny was found dead in his Las Vegas home from a heroin overdose."

[Edited 10/14/20 18:41pm]

Stop putting words into my mouth. Your interpetation of this is not my interpretation. Get off my back, please. I enjoyed the book and think it's probably one of the most important and revealing Prince books.

You are free to have yr own opoionoin about it. But the part wher you just want to follow people around and naysay them again an again and again is not really appropriate. Back off.

JudasLChrist said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Accusing a black icon of being responsbile for someone's death is no skin off your ass... got it.

.

"During their eight rounds Clay took away Liston’s heavyweight championship, his manhood, and his basic will to go on. Six years later, Sonny was found dead in his Las Vegas home from a heroin overdose."

[Edited 10/14/20 18:41pm]

Stop putting words into my mouth. Your interpetation of this is not my interpretation. Get off my back, please. I enjoyed the book and think it's probably one of the most important and revealing Prince books.

You are free to have yr own opoionoin about it. But the part wher you just want to follow people around and naysay them again an again and again is not really appropriate. Back off.

I've written plenty on this thread about various parts of the book. If one can read English, there is no interpretation needed.

[Edited 10/14/20 18:56pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

JudasLChrist said:

Stop putting words into my mouth. Your interpetation of this is not my interpretation. Get off my back, please. I enjoyed the book and think it's probably one of the most important and revealing Prince books.

You are free to have yr own opoionoin about it. But the part wher you just want to follow people around and naysay them again an again and again is not really appropriate. Back off.

I've written plenty on this thread about various parts of the book. If one can read English, there is no interpretation needed.

[Edited 10/14/20 18:56pm]

I can read English, and my onterpretation is valid.

JudasLChrist said:

MoodyBlumes said:

I've written plenty on this thread about various parts of the book. If one can read English, there is no interpretation needed.

[Edited 10/14/20 18:56pm]

I can read English, and my onterpretation is valid.

And what is your interpretation?

"During their eight rounds Clay took away Liston’s heavyweight championship, his manhood, and his basic will to go on. Six years later, Sonny was found dead in his Las Vegas home from a heroin overdose."

MoodyBlumes said:

JudasLChrist said:

I can read English, and my onterpretation is valid.

And what is your interpretation?

"During their eight rounds Clay took away Liston’s heavyweight championship, his manhood, and his basic will to go on. Six years later, Sonny was found dead in his Las Vegas home from a heroin overdose."

I'm not having a conversation with you. You just want to fight and rage about yr very narrow issue. I've already told you that you are being inappropriate and I told you to back off.