Lots of mention here about people using their instincts. So true. We all will.

The more I've heard of Prince'and Karlen's voices over the years, the more the two strike me as kindred spirits.

Instincts aren't facts, but they are useful. IMO, double standards don't help the goal of more closely approximating objective truth. They do the opposite.

There have been lots of dueling references here, and much of the information falls into a category of fans not having hard, objective evidence of what really went down.

So if we are honest, we fans are left with the tools we have, tools that are short of having been flies on the wall. Instincts. Critical thinking.

Having read the book, this nobody's affection for Prince has only grown. Adore him more than ever.

Jon Bream: Neal Karlen's book

"Though not comprehensive and sometimes sloppy with facts, this memoir is easily the most telling book about the late Prince thus far."

Does anyone else find it "interesting" that Karlen's recordings (i.e. his receipts) of these confessions and revelations were all destroyed in the apt fire, and yet the recodings of things that were published years ago (e.g. old news), maraculously survived?

dodger said:

Robbajobba said:

Exactly! Neal Karlen is a charlatan, con man and vulture. He is not credible at all. Anybody that belivee any of the drivel Karlen wrote are high on the same prescription pills Karlen alleged Prince to have stolen. He lied about the last time he talked to Prince, made allegations about Prince that can't be verified like not liking Miles Davis, still swearing as a JW and Prince not being able to dance or not having enough feeling in his hands to play music. Karlen doesn't care about journalistic integrity. Just eating off of Prince's carcass and going back to the shelter where he gets 3 square meals from. Prince like everybody was moody and could be contradictory. But in the words of Jay-Z, Neal Karlen "I don't believe you, you need more people". People doubted Prince's own account of his life in interviews, why shouldn't people question the veracity of a journalist? Especially one as creepy as Karlen. #princeovereverybody

This is exactly what Judith Hill told investigators Prince had said to her.

I don't know enough about Karlen's other work to judge him; he comes across as a little eccentric in interviews. But the book had the ring of truth for me. I also don't really understand what Karlen would have to gain from making a load of shit up, and writing it up in such a nuanced, lyrical way four years after Prince died. If he was just cashing in, then rush-release it during peak Prince Nostalgia in the Summer of 2016; fill it with scans of the letters from Prince and transcripts of interviews; and go big on the "Prince swiped my Percocet" story, surely?

. Interesting this Star Tribune plainly states it’s part fact part fiction. No doubt he’s a good writer but I don’t like the idea of having to work out what’s real and what’s just made up. Like the alleged last phone call. Is that just complete fabrication, as he’d stated previous they hadn’t talked in years .

[Edited 10/10/20 5:07am]

[/https://m.startribune.com/6-cool-things-in-music-this-week-include-robyn-amanda-shires-rhiannon-giddens-and-neal-karlen-s-prince-book/572612702/

Exactly, everything Neal claims Prince said to him during their "last phone call", are quotes from Judith Hill. So in truth, Prince said those things, but not to Neal.

Again, it's lies sprinkled with truth and if you read carefully, Neal makes this embedded confession multiple times in his book.

simm0061 said:

simm0061 said:

dodger said:

Robbajobba said:

This is exactly what Judith Hill told investigators Prince had said to her.

I don't know enough about Karlen's other work to judge him; he comes across as a little eccentric in interviews. But the book had the ring of truth for me. I also don't really understand what Karlen would have to gain from making a load of shit up, and writing it up in such a nuanced, lyrical way four years after Prince died. If he was just cashing in, then rush-release it during peak Prince Nostalgia in the Summer of 2016; fill it with scans of the letters from Prince and transcripts of interviews; and go big on the "Prince swiped my Percocet" story, surely?

. Interesting this Star Tribune plainly states it’s part fact part fiction. No doubt he’s a good writer but I don’t like the idea of having to work out what’s real and what’s just made up. Like the alleged last phone call. Is that just complete fabrication, as he’d stated previous they hadn’t talked in years .

[Edited 10/10/20 5:07am]

[/https://m.startribune.com/6-cool-things-in-music-this-week-include-robyn-amanda-shires-rhiannon-giddens-and-neal-karlen-s-prince-book/572612702/

Exactly, everything Neal claims Prince said to him during their "last phone call", are quotes from Judith Hill. So in truth, Prince said those things, but not to Neal.

Again, it's lies sprinkled with truth and if you read carefully, Neal makes this embedded confession multiple times in his book.

I think he is also very sloppy with facts and he has taken quite a bit of 'creative license' but

the broader insight into Prince's personality and motivations rang extremely true to me.

I was particularly interested in the concept of Kayfabe and how it related to the construction of Prince's public persona and his ultimate belief in the persona.

simm0061 said:

dodger said:

simm0061 said:

Exactly, everything Neal claims Prince said to him during their "last phone call", are quotes from Judith Hill. So in truth, Prince said those things, but not to Neal.

Again, it's lies sprinkled with truth and if you read carefully, Neal makes this embedded confession multiple times in his book.

. Since you’ve read it, what was the Sonny Liston story please? I saw a mention of a visit to his grave

According to Neal, Muhammad Ali told Prince that his one regret in life was that he went over board in his shit talk to Sonny Liston and that Sonny didn't deserve that. He ask Prince to appologize to Sonny (at his grave) if he ever got the chance. Why Ali couldn't do this himself, I don't know.

So, during his stint in Vegas, P (with Neal in tow) visited Liston's grave and did just that. The following day, Neal says P called him and wanted to visited the grave again. They did, but this time P ordered Neal to stay by the car and P walked up and placed an envelope on Liston's grave. Neal thinks that the envelope contained a song for Liston (Liston once said that "somone should compose a song for boxers, it would be just a guitar, a trumpet, and a bell.") Neal thinks P composed the "song for boxers" that Sonny wanted.

It's a great story. Is it Bs? The part about Neal being there probably is!

[Edited 10/10/20 11:18am]

simm0061 said:

OperatingThetan said:

dodger said:

simm0061 said:

According to Neal, Muhammad Ali told Prince that his one regret in life was that he went over board in his shit talk to Sonny Liston and that Sonny didn't deserve that. He ask Prince to appologize to Sonny (at his grave) if he ever got the chance. Why Ali couldn't do this himself, I don't know.

So, during his stint in Vegas, P (with Neal in tow) visited Liston's grave and did just that. The following day, Neal says P called him and wanted to visited the grave again. They did, but this time P ordered Neal to stay by the car and P walked up and placed an envelope on Liston's grave. Neal thinks that the envelope contained a song for Liston (Liston once said that "somone should compose a song for boxers, it would be just a guitar, a trumpet, and a bell.") Neal thinks P composed the "song for boxers" that Sonny wanted.

It's a great story. Is it Bs? The part about Neal being there probably is!

[Edited 10/10/20 11:18am]

. Thanks for that. Was intrigued being a boxing fan. As you say; great story but is there any truth to it!

I question the "Sonny" scenario. It might have tied in with Neal's premise that Prince was maturing and like Ali, may have developed more empathy.

Margot said:

MoodyBlumes said:

I already responded... The thread is about Neal Karlen's book. In it, he writes that Prince was spiritually dead... and 'loathed' Miles Davis. Do you think he respected Prince?

.

Prince according to Neal Karlen:

“Fuck Miles Davis. I mean I respect the man’s talent, I’ll give him my music, but I won’t stand in the same room as him...

"... and he’d most assuredly just call him a “motherfucker,” and again, never mind the swear box Prince made visitors to Paisley Park pay into for using profanity."
....

https://www.thelastmiles....eds-part2/

Eric Leeds: Alan had already told me that there were a couple of Miles albums Prince would listen to regularly, Kind of Blue was one and I think Jack Johnson was another, and there may have been a couple of other things. And because of this, I just realised that there were a lot of interesting opportunities for [Miles to] get involved in Prince. I remember once seeing an interview with Miles around 84/85 were Miles mentioned Prince and said if he was interested in listening to anybody, he was the cat. So I made sure to bring that to Prince’s attention and he looked at me and smiled and said: “When Miles says something about you like that, I guess it makes it all worthwhile.” So I said: “Yes, just remember that!”

.

So the first thing that happens when I get there is that he has this track up and he said: “I’ve been talking to Miles.” I said: “Really?!” and he said “Yeah and I’ve got a track here that I want to send to him. Here it is, I’m going out to have dinner – do whatever you want with it.” I said: “Okay.” So I did what I did, and three, four hours later, Prince came back and listened to it and said “Yeah, that’s cool, I like it.” So I asked him “How are you going to get it to Miles?” and he said “Well, he’s in town, he’s in Malibu, why don’t we go to his house and give it to him?” and I said: “It sounds good to me!” So, he was on the phone to Miles the next day and then he said: “You know, I think we’ll just send it to him.”

.

EL: I remember a discussion I had with Prince and he said:” I don’t know exactly what to tell Miles what to do.” And I laughed and said: “That’s exactly what he wants you to do. You’re not going to tell him what notes to play but Miles want a new experience and you’re one of the few musicians that he’s actually willing to go into the studio and open up to: “Reach into me and try to get something out of me that I haven’t been able to do.” And I said to Prince: “What’s the worst thing that can happen – he walks out of the studio – so what!”

.

TLM: You were part of an amazing dinner party on March 24 1987 that included Miles, Prince, Prince’s Dad, Sheila E and you. Was that the first time you met Miles?

.

EL: He had come by a rehearsal for the Sign ‘O’ The Times tour that afternoon and I was introduced to him then. I had gone home after rehearsal and got a call from one of Prince’s assistants, “By the way, Prince is inviting you to have dinner with him,” so I jumped in my car and went over to Prince’s house. I kinda think that Prince wanted me there to open up the conversation with Miles and get things rolling. Miles was as much a performer during that dinner as he ever was on stage. You couldn’t get him to shut up and it was very funny!

.

But basically the most interesting aspect of the relationship between Prince and Miles was the dance that they would do around each other. What Prince really related to about Miles was his character – his legacy, his mystique and everything that Miles represented as a personality. Prince saw in Miles so much of what he thought of himself – the person that goes against the grain, that’s opinionated, that doesn’t allow himself to be controlled by any aspect of the industry for his own artistic vision. And that’s very much what Miles saw in Prince.

.

EL: At one point in the evening, Miles grabbed me by the arm and said: “Eric, let me see your carriage!” I’m looking at him and trying to be cool and I say: “My what?!!” And he says, “Your carriage! Show me how you hold your horn!” And then I realised: “Oh my God, he’s using an archaic definition of the word carriage. He said “Show me how you stand when you hold your saxophone.” Then he goes: “Do you do it like this?” And he mimicked the way a saxophone player holds his horn. I looked at him and laughed and then I said, “Is that the way I should hold it?” And he said “Yes,” and I replied, “Well Miles, that’s exactly how I hold it!”

.

TLM: Miles appears on Prince’s song “Sticky Wicked”, along with Prince Chaka Khan. But I gather the song wasn’t written with Miles in mind.

.

EL: When Prince had the track up and Matt Blistan and I did the horn parts I can’t recall Prince making any mention about Miles, although he did say he’d written it for Chaka. Interestingly enough, the title “Sticky Wicked” had been applied to a different song, which was actually the title song of my first album Times Squared. I heard the track and asked Prince if I could work on it for my album and he said yes. And then a couple of weeks later, we were working on this track for Chaka and I asked what the name of it was and he said “Sticky Wicked!” Later on when we were on the road he said “Listen to this.” It was the finished track and Miles was on it. That was the song that got me officially into the Miles Davis discography! It was a much better track and much better utilisation of his horn than on “Can I Play With U?” It was a cool little song.

.....

Miles on Prince:

"Prince wrote me a letter and along with the letter and along he enclosed a tape of instrumental tracks he'd recorded by himself in his studio. And in this letter he wrote, "Miles, even though we have never met, I can tell just from listening to your music that you and I are so exactly alike that I know whatever you play would be what I'd do. So if this tape is of any use to you, please go ahead and play whatever you feel over it. Because I trust what you hear and play.'

(Miles on Miles, Interviews and Encounters with Miles Davis)

.

"One day I asked Prince "Where's the bass line in that composition?"

He said, "Miles, I don't write one, and if you ever hear one I'm gonna fire the bass player because a bass line gets in my way." He told me he wouldn't tell that to nobody else, but he knew that I understood that because he had heard that same kind of concept in some of my music."

....

Michelle Streitz made Prince's canes:

https://prnalumni.org/mem...e-streitz/

"He later asked for one more cane to give to his close friend Miles Davis who’d recently been hospitalized in Los Angeles."

.

"And as she perused many of the stories and writeen tributes to Prince during the ensuing days, Michelle came across a piece that featured the friends and family of Miles Davis discussing his "obsession" with Prince. In the article, Jason Miles, a longtime bandmate of Davis was quoted as saying, "When Miles was in the hospital... Prince had sent him this cane that had all kinds of glitter... He really loved that gift."

....

1987 SOTT benefit concert for the homeless with Miles: https://www.youtube.com/w...amp;t=239s

.........

Neal then 'reveals' that like Miles, Prince also 'loathed' Spike Lee, but 'forgave him' because of a few lines of dialogue in Spike's 1989 film 'Do the Right Thing'. He says nothing about their ong friendship.

.

https://blog.thecurrent.o...%20allies.

"Spike Lee’s relationship with Prince began in 1986 after the release of the director’s first feature-length film She’s Gotta Have It. Prince flew Lee out to Paisley Park after viewing the film and the two chatted while Prince was in the midst directing his Purple Rain sequel. The two hit it off, and remained close friends and allies. “Both believed that black folks attain freedom through creative autonomy and financial control of that work,”

.

When Prince died in 2016, Lee threw a celebration for his friend in Brooklyn — broadcasting hit after hit into the streets. Throughout his career, he featured the artist’s music in various films from Girl 6 (for which Lee received complete access to Prince’s catalog) and the recent Netflix reboot of She’s Gotta Have It in which the characters dance the night away to “Raspberry Beret” in the final scene of the series.

.

Most recently, a previously unreleased rendition (1983) of the spiritual “Mary Don’t You Weep” played over scenes from the 2017 white supremacist rally in Charlottesville in the final scenes of BlacKkKlansman. Troy Carter, an advisor to the Prince Estate and friend of Lee’s, uncovered the tape among all the artist had left behind. The track features just a piano and isolated vocals and was featured on last year’s Piano & A Microphone 1983 release.

.

“Last night I posted the Sam Cooke ‘A Change is Gonna Come’ scene from Malcolm X. I must thank (again) the prominent African-Americans who saved the film, they wrote a check to me so I could continue to finish it after the money had run out. Their checks were gifts from their hearts. We should all thank MAGIC JOHNSON, MICHAEL JORDAN, OPRAH WINFREY, JANET JACKSON, PRINCE, TRACEY CHAMPMAN, PEGGY COOPER-CAYFRITZ AND BILL COSBY.”

https://atlantablackstar....malcolm-x/

[Edited 10/9/20 23:23pm]

I think Prince respected the younger Miles Davis. He knew the current Miles was deteriorating and did not make a concerted effort to continue to meet with him.

Neal said Prince loathed Miles and would never stand in the same room with him -- that is blatantly untrue. Neal also lies about Spike as clearly shown. Neal must be speaking about himself.

[Edited 10/10/20 12:30pm]

Margot said:

simm0061 said:

Exactly, everything Neal claims Prince said to him during their "last phone call", are quotes from Judith Hill. So in truth, Prince said those things, but not to Neal.

Again, it's lies sprinkled with truth and if you read carefully, Neal makes this embedded confession multiple times in his book.

I think he is also very sloppy with facts and he has taken quite a bit of 'creative license' but

the broader insight into Prince's personality and motivations rang extremely true to me.

I was particularly interested in the concept of Kayfabe and how it related to the construction of Prince's public persona and his ultimate belief in the persona.

Claiming Prince loathed black people he in fact admired, is not creative license -- it's an agenda.

[Edited 10/10/20 12:47pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

Margot said:

I think he is also very sloppy with facts and he has taken quite a bit of 'creative license' but

the broader insight into Prince's personality and motivations rang extremely true to me.

I was particularly interested in the concept of Kayfabe and how it related to the construction of Prince's public persona and his ultimate belief in the persona.

Claiming Prince loathed black people he in fact admired, is not creative license -- it's an agenda.

[Edited 10/10/20 12:47pm]

[Edited 10/10/20 12:59pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

Margot said:

I think he is also very sloppy with facts and he has taken quite a bit of 'creative license' but

the broader insight into Prince's personality and motivations rang extremely true to me.

I was particularly interested in the concept of Kayfabe and how it related to the construction of Prince's public persona and his ultimate belief in the persona.

Claiming Prince loathed black people he in fact admired, is not creative license -- it's an agenda.

[Edited 10/10/20 12:47pm]

For all you or I know, Prince viewed Mattie in a far different way from what's often reported/"agenda-ed." We all know people are capable of lying about Prince's mother. We know Prince himself lied about her. Maybe Neal lied or repeated lies about Mattie. Maybe others lied or repeated lies about Mattie.

For all you and I know, Neal's description of Prince and Mattie's relationship, a description of huge love and admiration...maybe it was one of the closest-to-truth descriptions that's been written. Maybe not.

Since you believe that reading comprehension and unclear writing problems are at issue, let me be clear. I don't make excuses for anyone lying about black people, including those who may have lied about Prince and his family.

In the vast majority of cases, the bottom line is that I don't know if people are lying or not.

My favorite description of Mattie is Prince's writing in The Beautiful Ones. I so wish he'd had more time. He indicated that he would write a lot more about his family.

First words of that memoir: "My mother's eyes." Prince's writing continues from those beautiful words like a gorgeous love song.

[Edited 10/10/20 18:25pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

Margot said:

I think Prince respected the younger Miles Davis. He knew the current Miles was deteriorating and did not make a concerted effort to continue to meet with him.

Neal said Prince loathed Miles and would never stand in the same room with him -- that is blatantly untrue. Neal also lies about Spike as clearly shown. Neal must be speaking about himself.

[Edited 10/10/20 12:30pm]

He also says that P hated Michael Jackson, which is not true. Neal confuses trash talking with hating.

simm0061 said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Neal said Prince loathed Miles and would never stand in the same room with him -- that is blatantly untrue. Neal also lies about Spike as clearly shown. Neal must be speaking about himself.

[Edited 10/10/20 12:30pm]

He also says that P hated Michael Jackson, which is not true. Neal confuses trash talking with hating.

Those sorts of confusions probably happen a lot.

A person can read a quote on a page that could have many meanings. No doubt many things (not seeing expressions/gestures, lack of cultural sophistication, etc.etc.) keep people from getting someone's actual intent/meaning.

dodger said:

Robbajobba said:

Exactly! Neal Karlen is a charlatan, con man and vulture. He is not credible at all. Anybody that belivee any of the drivel Karlen wrote are high on the same prescription pills Karlen alleged Prince to have stolen. He lied about the last time he talked to Prince, made allegations about Prince that can't be verified like not liking Miles Davis, still swearing as a JW and Prince not being able to dance or not having enough feeling in his hands to play music. Karlen doesn't care about journalistic integrity. Just eating off of Prince's carcass and going back to the shelter where he gets 3 square meals from. Prince like everybody was moody and could be contradictory. But in the words of Jay-Z, Neal Karlen "I don't believe you, you need more people". People doubted Prince's own account of his life in interviews, why shouldn't people question the veracity of a journalist? Especially one as creepy as Karlen. #princeovereverybody

This is exactly what Judith Hill told investigators Prince had said to her.

I don't know enough about Karlen's other work to judge him; he comes across as a little eccentric in interviews. But the book had the ring of truth for me. I also don't really understand what Karlen would have to gain from making a load of shit up, and writing it up in such a nuanced, lyrical way four years after Prince died. If he was just cashing in, then rush-release it during peak Prince Nostalgia in the Summer of 2016; fill it with scans of the letters from Prince and transcripts of interviews; and go big on the "Prince swiped my Percocet" story, surely?

. Interesting this Star Tribune plainly states it’s part fact part fiction. No doubt he’s a good writer but I don’t like the idea of having to work out what’s real and what’s just made up. Like the alleged last phone call. Is that just complete fabrication, as he’d stated previous they hadn’t talked in years .

[Edited 10/10/20 5:07am]

[/https://m.startribune.com/6-cool-things-in-music-this-week-include-robyn-amanda-shires-rhiannon-giddens-and-neal-karlen-s-prince-book/572612702/

Have you read Judith's police report?

rednblue said:

dodger said:

Robbajobba said:

This is exactly what Judith Hill told investigators Prince had said to her.

I don't know enough about Karlen's other work to judge him; he comes across as a little eccentric in interviews. But the book had the ring of truth for me. I also don't really understand what Karlen would have to gain from making a load of shit up, and writing it up in such a nuanced, lyrical way four years after Prince died. If he was just cashing in, then rush-release it during peak Prince Nostalgia in the Summer of 2016; fill it with scans of the letters from Prince and transcripts of interviews; and go big on the "Prince swiped my Percocet" story, surely?

. Interesting this Star Tribune plainly states it’s part fact part fiction. No doubt he’s a good writer but I don’t like the idea of having to work out what’s real and what’s just made up. Like the alleged last phone call. Is that just complete fabrication, as he’d stated previous they hadn’t talked in years .

[Edited 10/10/20 5:07am]

[/https://m.startribune.com/6-cool-things-in-music-this-week-include-robyn-amanda-shires-rhiannon-giddens-and-neal-karlen-s-prince-book/572612702/

All of this.

And very surprised Jon Bream's review is so positive.

His is the most accurate description of the book so far: "Like a neurotic jazz man who got a gig he didn't apply for, the flamboyantly engaging Minneapolis storyteller (Karlen) became an unlikely friend to Prince, the loneliest person he's ever met. Like heyday Prince, the one-time Rolling Stone cover writer's book is partly truth, partly fiction, with lots of intentional contradictions. Whether they're about visiting boxer Sonny Liston's grave, having late-night phone calls or sharing painkillers, the stories, like Prince, are irresistibly fascinating and as elusive as float-like-a-butterfly Muhammad Ali, the rock star's idol. Though not comprehensive and sometimes sloppy with facts, this memoir is easily the most telling book about the late Prince thus far." -- https://www.startribune.c...572612702/

purplethunder3121 said:

rednblue said:

All of this.

And very surprised Jon Bream's review is so positive.

His is the most accurate description of the book so far: "Like a neurotic jazz man who got a gig he didn't apply for, the flamboyantly engaging Minneapolis storyteller (Karlen) became an unlikely friend to Prince, the loneliest person he's ever met. Like heyday Prince, the one-time Rolling Stone cover writer's book is partly truth, partly fiction, with lots of intentional contradictions. Whether they're about visiting boxer Sonny Liston's grave, having late-night phone calls or sharing painkillers, the stories, like Prince, are irresistibly fascinating and as elusive as float-like-a-butterfly Muhammad Ali, the rock star's idol. Though not comprehensive and sometimes sloppy with facts, this memoir is easily the most telling book about the late Prince thus far." -- https://www.startribune.c...572612702/

He also says it is easily the most telling book about the late Prince.

[Edited 10/10/20 14:45pm]

simm0061 said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Neal said Prince loathed Miles and would never stand in the same room with him -- that is blatantly untrue. Neal also lies about Spike as clearly shown. Neal must be speaking about himself.

[Edited 10/10/20 12:30pm]

He also says that P hated Michael Jackson, which is not true. Neal confuses trash talking with hating.

Neal said P LATER came to admire both Miles and Lee. But I've had it confirmed from two people that P loathed MJ (privately, not publicly).

But the book is non-linear and there are some grievous errors.

Margot said:

dodger said:

Margot said:

He also says it is easily the most telling book about the late Prince.

[Edited 10/10/20 14:45pm]

It makes no sense to me. How can it be ‘easily the most telling book’ and at the same time it’s partly fiction, full of contradictions and sloppy with facts..

Probably because of the parts that are facts and not fiction. If you can figure them out.

dodger said:

Margot said:

He also says it is easily the most telling book about the late Prince.

[Edited 10/10/20 14:45pm]

It makes no sense to me. How can it be ‘easily the most telling book’ and at the same time it’s partly fiction, full of contradictions and sloppy with facts..

The peripheral stuff like the Rabbi, Sonny Liston etc are likely questionable but I think Neal has

deep insight into Prince's 'psychology', ie., he talks about Prince's belief in Kayfabe, (the need to be in character all of the time), his need to be cool and in control (Basketball & Cool), his eventual

belief that he was the character, (Prince), his need to compartmentalize, his early adult narcissism (till age 40+).

MoodyBlumes said:

dodger said:

Robbajobba said:

This is exactly what Judith Hill told investigators Prince had said to her.

I don't know enough about Karlen's other work to judge him; he comes across as a little eccentric in interviews. But the book had the ring of truth for me. I also don't really understand what Karlen would have to gain from making a load of shit up, and writing it up in such a nuanced, lyrical way four years after Prince died. If he was just cashing in, then rush-release it during peak Prince Nostalgia in the Summer of 2016; fill it with scans of the letters from Prince and transcripts of interviews; and go big on the "Prince swiped my Percocet" story, surely?

. Interesting this Star Tribune plainly states it’s part fact part fiction. No doubt he’s a good writer but I don’t like the idea of having to work out what’s real and what’s just made up. Like the alleged last phone call. Is that just complete fabrication, as he’d stated previous they hadn’t talked in years .

[Edited 10/10/20 5:07am]

[/https://m.startribune.com/6-cool-things-in-music-this-week-include-robyn-amanda-shires-rhiannon-giddens-and-neal-karlen-s-prince-book/572612702/

Have you read Judith's police report?

You are asking to hear from dodger, so apologize for butting in if you don't want to hear someone else's recollection.

Don't know if there were multiple police interviews with Judith, but in the one I read, she said that in the Moline hospital, she expressed concern to Prince about the danger of that way of pill use, asking him to assure her "so definitely no more of these pills, right."

She said that Prince's reply was "something like well then that means I can't perform because my hands are hurting."

It seems perhaps Prince felt that it was getting harder for him to be able to play music without subjecting himself to the dangers Judith was speaking about.

From Dan Piepenbring's description, maybe Prince sometimes thought to make his immediate future lighter on playing instruments, and heavier on writing:

"He said he was finished with making music, making records. 'I’m sick of playing the guitar, at least for now. I like the piano, but I hate the thought of picking up the guitar.' What he really wanted to do was write. In fact, he had so many ideas for his book that he didn’t know where to begin. Maybe he wanted to focus on scenes from his early life, juxtaposed against moments set in the present day. Or maybe he wanted to do a whole book about the inner workings of the music industry. Or perhaps he should write about his mother—he’d been wanting to articulate her role in his life. He wondered what writing a book had in common with writing an album. He wanted to know the rules, so he could know when to flout them."


https://www.newyorker.com...-of-prince

rednblue said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Have you read Judith's police report?

You are asking to hear from dodger, so apologize for butting in if you don't want to hear someone else's recollection.

Don't know if there were multiple police interviews with Judith, but in the one I read, she said that in the Moline hospital, she expressed concern to Prince about the danger of that way of pill use, asking him to assure her "so definitely no more of these pills, right."

She said that Prince's reply was "something like well then that means I can't perform because my hands are hurting."

It seems perhaps Prince felt that it was getting harder for him to be able to play music without subjecting himself to the dangers Judith was speaking about.

From Dan Piepenbring's description, maybe Prince sometimes thought to make his immediate future lighter on playing instruments, and heavier on writing:

"He said he was finished with making music, making records. 'I’m sick of playing the guitar, at least for now. I like the piano, but I hate the thought of picking up the guitar.' What he really wanted to do was write. In fact, he had so many ideas for his book that he didn’t know where to begin. Maybe he wanted to focus on scenes from his early life, juxtaposed against moments set in the present day. Or maybe he wanted to do a whole book about the inner workings of the music industry. Or perhaps he should write about his mother—he’d been wanting to articulate her role in his life. He wondered what writing a book had in common with writing an album. He wanted to know the rules, so he could know when to flout them."


https://www.newyorker.com...-of-prince

Yes, you are correct Red&blue. He said his hands were hurting, I do not remember it being mentioned that his hands were numb, like some are saying.

[Edited 10/10/20 16:44pm]

laytonian said:

simm0061 said:

He also says that P hated Michael Jackson, which is not true. Neal confuses trash talking with hating.

Neal said P LATER came to admire both Miles and Lee. But I've had it confirmed from two people that P loathed MJ (privately, not publicly).

But the book is non-linear and there are some grievous errors.

Are you able to say who the two people are? Michael Bland has stated more than once that P and MJ were cool. He even said that Michael would sometimes come to PP to shoot hoops.

Margot said:

dodger said:

Margot said: It makes no sense to me. How can it be ‘easily the most telling book’ and at the same time it’s partly fiction, full of contradictions and sloppy with facts..

The peripheral stuff like the Rabbi, Sonny Liston etc are likely questionable but I think Neal has

deep insight into Prince's 'psychology', ie., he talks about Prince's belief in Kayfabe, (the need to be in character all of the time), his need to be cool and in control (Basketball & Cool), his eventual

belief that he was the character, (Prince), his need to compartmentalize, his early adult narcissism (till age 40+).

So it's okay in today's racial climate to invent stories about Prince seeing a rabbi, Sonny Liston, loathing Miles Davis, lying about his history with Spike Lee, claiming that he didn't care about Stevie Wonder's personal life or know him well? We have more evidence of Stevie's relationship with Prince than we have of Neal's. And what does all this lying say about Neal's psychology? Why does he need people to think Prince was swearing as a JW -- even though the many people who knew and shared about him claim the opposite? Even fans were annoyed when he changed his song lyrics.

.

Prince and Stevie performed together at the White House in 2015.

https://www.rollingstone....how-58481/

[Edited 10/10/20 17:09pm]

MoodyBlumes said:

Margot said:

The peripheral stuff like the Rabbi, Sonny Liston etc are likely questionable but I think Neal has

deep insight into Prince's 'psychology', ie., he talks about Prince's belief in Kayfabe, (the need to be in character all of the time), his need to be cool and in control (Basketball & Cool), his eventual

belief that he was the character, (Prince), his need to compartmentalize, his early adult narcissism (till age 40+).

So it's okay in today's racial climate to invent stories about Prince seeing a rabbi, Sonny Liston, loathing Miles Davis, lying about his history with Spike Lee, claiming that he didn't care about Stevie Wonder's personal life or know him well? We have more evidence of Stevie's relationship with Prince than we have of Neal's. And what does all this lying say about Neal's psychology? Why does he need people to think Prince was swearing as a JW -- even though the many people who knew and shared about him claim the opposite? Even fans were annoyed when he changed his song lyrics.

.

Prince and Stevie performed together at the White House in 2015.

https://www.rollingstone....how-58481/

[Edited 10/10/20 17:09pm]

You seem so angry about this. I am allowed to have my perspective and talked about my reasoning.

I'm a Prince fan and agree with Jon Bream.

I'm going out to dinner, have a nice weekend.

MoodyBlumes said: