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In another comment, you mentioned differing with Neal about the best guess connected to walking with muddy boots across white carpet. I differ with Neal, too. My first guess would be style/height, not territory. |
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I'm not suggesting he isn't. Your example would be a legitimate gripe, but Neal makes the claim that Bream's book is "full of inaccuracies" (if it is, none come to mind) and accuses him of perpetuating the rumor about P's mother giving him Playboy magazines, when in fact, Bream's book suggests that Prince, very likely made that up and includes a denile by P's mom. I'm just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if Bream hits back. | |
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The reason I don't think Neal is the person is that I am still a bit distrustful of some of his reasons for writing about Prince and that he did insert himself a bit too much for my taste, but I feel he opened the door really wide and had numerous insights that rang true. I thought he really got Prince and was brave in his commentary. Most are so skittish. | |
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Pleasure... I thought it was a great interview too. Prince was very candid in that interview, which was great. Seems he felt comfortable around Tavis... I'd read his book if he ever wrote one. | |
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Spiritual conversations can get hot and heavy from the passionate...and that is one thing. But Prince never put out a book declaring that someone was spiritually dead. He had conversations with a lot of people... privately. | |
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I doubt Jon is losing any sleep. | |
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[Edited 10/9/20 18:24pm] |
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I agree. I didn't feel that he was painting a negative picture of Prince at all. Maybe someone who isn't familar with the ways of Prince might get that impression. However, I did get the impression that John Nelson was a complete narcassistic asshole. This, if true, sheds a lot of light on why Prince had so many bad fallings out with his father over the years.
If anything, I thought the book painted P in a sympthetic light and is probably the first book to point out how forgiving Prince could actually be. | |
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Were you part of that private conversation with Prince? If not, then you don't know the content of what was discussed. But keep making excuses for Neal... who based on the content of the book doesn't appear to be too spiritually enlightened or much of a friend. Prince stopped 'collaborating' with Wendy in 1986 -- he had no intentions of reconstituting the Revolution, but he did work with Wendy on a few projects, and performed with her at times. . If you are a Prince fan, then you are aware that Prince did not just 'collaborate' with JWs. [Edited 10/9/20 18:25pm] | |
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[Edited 10/9/20 23:10pm] |
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MoodyBlumes, It occured to me that it would be silly if we weren't talking about the same passage. [Edited 10/9/20 20:31pm] |
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I already responded... The thread is about Neal Karlen's book. In it, he writes that Prince was spiritually dead... and 'loathed' Miles Davis. Do you think he respected Prince? . Prince according to Neal Karlen: “Fuck Miles Davis. I mean I respect the man’s talent, I’ll give him my music, but I won’t stand in the same room as him... "... and he’d most assuredly just call him a “motherfucker,” and again, never mind the swear box Prince made visitors to Paisley Park pay into for using profanity." https://www.thelastmiles....eds-part2/ Eric Leeds: Alan had already told me that there were a couple of Miles albums Prince would listen to regularly, Kind of Blue was one and I think Jack Johnson was another, and there may have been a couple of other things. And because of this, I just realised that there were a lot of interesting opportunities for [Miles to] get involved in Prince. I remember once seeing an interview with Miles around 84/85 were Miles mentioned Prince and said if he was interested in listening to anybody, he was the cat. So I made sure to bring that to Prince’s attention and he looked at me and smiled and said: “When Miles says something about you like that, I guess it makes it all worthwhile.” So I said: “Yes, just remember that!” . So the first thing that happens when I get there is that he has this track up and he said: “I’ve been talking to Miles.” I said: “Really?!” and he said “Yeah and I’ve got a track here that I want to send to him. Here it is, I’m going out to have dinner – do whatever you want with it.” I said: “Okay.” So I did what I did, and three, four hours later, Prince came back and listened to it and said “Yeah, that’s cool, I like it.” So I asked him “How are you going to get it to Miles?” and he said “Well, he’s in town, he’s in Malibu, why don’t we go to his house and give it to him?” and I said: “It sounds good to me!” So, he was on the phone to Miles the next day and then he said: “You know, I think we’ll just send it to him.” . EL: I remember a discussion I had with Prince and he said:” I don’t know exactly what to tell Miles what to do.” And I laughed and said: “That’s exactly what he wants you to do. You’re not going to tell him what notes to play but Miles want a new experience and you’re one of the few musicians that he’s actually willing to go into the studio and open up to: “Reach into me and try to get something out of me that I haven’t been able to do.” And I said to Prince: “What’s the worst thing that can happen – he walks out of the studio – so what!” . TLM: You were part of an amazing dinner party on March 24 1987 that included Miles, Prince, Prince’s Dad, Sheila E and you. Was that the first time you met Miles? . EL: He had come by a rehearsal for the Sign ‘O’ The Times tour that afternoon and I was introduced to him then. I had gone home after rehearsal and got a call from one of Prince’s assistants, “By the way, Prince is inviting you to have dinner with him,” so I jumped in my car and went over to Prince’s house. I kinda think that Prince wanted me there to open up the conversation with Miles and get things rolling. Miles was as much a performer during that dinner as he ever was on stage. You couldn’t get him to shut up and it was very funny! . But basically the most interesting aspect of the relationship between Prince and Miles was the dance that they would do around each other. What Prince really related to about Miles was his character – his legacy, his mystique and everything that Miles represented as a personality. Prince saw in Miles so much of what he thought of himself – the person that goes against the grain, that’s opinionated, that doesn’t allow himself to be controlled by any aspect of the industry for his own artistic vision. And that’s very much what Miles saw in Prince. . EL: At one point in the evening, Miles grabbed me by the arm and said: “Eric, let me see your carriage!” I’m looking at him and trying to be cool and I say: “My what?!!” And he says, “Your carriage! Show me how you hold your horn!” And then I realised: “Oh my God, he’s using an archaic definition of the word carriage. He said “Show me how you stand when you hold your saxophone.” Then he goes: “Do you do it like this?” And he mimicked the way a saxophone player holds his horn. I looked at him and laughed and then I said, “Is that the way I should hold it?” And he said “Yes,” and I replied, “Well Miles, that’s exactly how I hold it!” . TLM: Miles appears on Prince’s song “Sticky Wicked”, along with Prince Chaka Khan. But I gather the song wasn’t written with Miles in mind. . EL: When Prince had the track up and Matt Blistan and I did the horn parts I can’t recall Prince making any mention about Miles, although he did say he’d written it for Chaka. Interestingly enough, the title “Sticky Wicked” had been applied to a different song, which was actually the title song of my first album Times Squared. I heard the track and asked Prince if I could work on it for my album and he said yes. And then a couple of weeks later, we were working on this track for Chaka and I asked what the name of it was and he said “Sticky Wicked!” Later on when we were on the road he said “Listen to this.” It was the finished track and Miles was on it. That was the song that got me officially into the Miles Davis discography! It was a much better track and much better utilisation of his horn than on “Can I Play With U?” It was a cool little song. ..... Miles on Prince: "Prince wrote me a letter and along with the letter and along he enclosed a tape of instrumental tracks he'd recorded by himself in his studio. And in this letter he wrote, "Miles, even though we have never met, I can tell just from listening to your music that you and I are so exactly alike that I know whatever you play would be what I'd do. So if this tape is of any use to you, please go ahead and play whatever you feel over it. Because I trust what you hear and play.' (Miles on Miles, Interviews and Encounters with Miles Davis) . "One day I asked Prince "Where's the bass line in that composition?" He said, "Miles, I don't write one, and if you ever hear one I'm gonna fire the bass player because a bass line gets in my way." He told me he wouldn't tell that to nobody else, but he knew that I understood that because he had heard that same kind of concept in some of my music." .... Michelle Streitz made Prince's canes: https://prnalumni.org/mem...e-streitz/
"He later asked for one more cane to give to his close friend Miles Davis who’d recently been hospitalized in Los Angeles." . "And as she perused many of the stories and writeen tributes to Prince during the ensuing days, Michelle came across a piece that featured the friends and family of Miles Davis discussing his "obsession" with Prince. In the article, Jason Miles, a longtime bandmate of Davis was quoted as saying, "When Miles was in the hospital... Prince had sent him this cane that had all kinds of glitter... He really loved that gift." .... 1987 SOTT benefit concert for the homeless with Miles: https://www.youtube.com/w...amp;t=239s ......... Neal then 'reveals' that like Miles, Prince also 'loathed' Spike Lee, but 'forgave him' because of a few lines of dialogue in Spike's 1989 film 'Do the Right Thing'. He says nothing about their ong friendship. . https://blog.thecurrent.o...%20allies. "Spike Lee’s relationship with Prince began in 1986 after the release of the director’s first feature-length film She’s Gotta Have It. Prince flew Lee out to Paisley Park after viewing the film and the two chatted while Prince was in the midst directing his Purple Rain sequel. The two hit it off, and remained close friends and allies. “Both believed that black folks attain freedom through creative autonomy and financial control of that work,” . When Prince died in 2016, Lee threw a celebration for his friend in Brooklyn — broadcasting hit after hit into the streets. Throughout his career, he featured the artist’s music in various films from Girl 6 (for which Lee received complete access to Prince’s catalog) and the recent Netflix reboot of She’s Gotta Have It in which the characters dance the night away to “Raspberry Beret” in the final scene of the series. . Most recently, a previously unreleased rendition (1983) of the spiritual “Mary Don’t You Weep” played over scenes from the 2017 white supremacist rally in Charlottesville in the final scenes of BlacKkKlansman. Troy Carter, an advisor to the Prince Estate and friend of Lee’s, uncovered the tape among all the artist had left behind. The track features just a piano and isolated vocals and was featured on last year’s Piano & A Microphone 1983 release. . “Last night I posted the Sam Cooke ‘A Change is Gonna Come’ scene from Malcolm X. I must thank (again) the prominent African-Americans who saved the film, they wrote a check to me so I could continue to finish it after the money had run out. Their checks were gifts from their hearts. We should all thank MAGIC JOHNSON, MICHAEL JORDAN, OPRAH WINFREY, JANET JACKSON, PRINCE, TRACEY CHAMPMAN, PEGGY COOPER-CAYFRITZ AND BILL COSBY.” https://atlantablackstar....malcolm-x/
[Edited 10/9/20 23:23pm] | |
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I really don't know why any of you are relying on our words to condemn Neal, when his own words do it better than any of us could.
Go listen to the interviews he's done, both years ago and more recently to promote this book and his own words will condemn him more than anything we could ever say about him.
That's the best thing about the internet, it has a long memory | |
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Thanks!
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You are very young and rather judgemental (not trying to hurt you), but as you mature, you may see life in a more nuanced way. Prince chose to call Neal on many occasions.
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Seems some have reading comprehension issues. I wonder who on the thread has read any other book by Karlen. | |
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Do I have the right quote from This Thing Called Life? From "This Thing Called Life" by Neal Karlen Thanks!
[Edited 10/10/20 0:15am] |
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- It could've been such a revelatory book I believe; he can be so funny, smart, wit, controversial; Imagine him revealing some unsolved business. The industry would get their asses kicked i'm sure. - He kind of had to reflect on all these annoying issues that passed in his life, concerning his relationships with basically every one we know that were around him. just imagine all the reactions afterwards ! Such a shame he didn't live that longer to finish it. Would've love some latino bitch fightings. Then again, he was capable of pulling the plug at any time, and shelve it. People really never change, not even Prince. Religious influences or not, he would have kept these little mean purple tricks. Cause if he had finished his autobiography, he would have taken the possibility to sermon all us (again). Or, it could've opened up his 'mind' on all things he ran from in his life. We'll never know. -
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. And wiser people so full of doubts" (Bertrand Russell 1872-1972) |
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onlyforaminute said: The Sonny Liston story would be beautiful to believe, in that I can honestly say is a place he elevated Prince, a lot. What’s the Sonny Liston story? | |
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rednblue said: MoodyBlumes, It occured to me that it would be silly if we weren't talking about the same passage. [Edited 10/9/20 20:31pm] Neal literally publically wished death on Prince, so he could personally profit. There is no evidence at all Prince would sooner rather than later no longer have the strength to play the guitar or the piano. And I doubt a man approaching his 60s, with musical gifts as vast as Prince, was worried about no longer being able to bust dance moves like he did in his 20s and 30s. | |
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OperatingThetan said: rednblue said: MoodyBlumes, It occured to me that it would be silly if we weren't talking about the same passage. [Edited 10/9/20 20:31pm] Neal literally publically wished death on Prince, so he could personally profit. There is no evidence at all Prince would sooner rather than later no longer have the strength to play the guitar or the piano. And I doubt a man approaching his 60s, with musical gifts as vast as Prince, was worried about no longer being able to bust dance moves like he did in his 20s and 30s. Exactly! Neal Karlen is a charlatan, con man and vulture. He is not credible at all. Anybody that belivee any of the drivel Karlen wrote are high on the same prescription pills Karlen alleged Prince to have stolen. He lied about the last time he talked to Prince, made allegations about Prince that can't be verified like not liking Miles Davis, still swearing as a JW and Prince not being able to dance or not having enough feeling in his hands to play music. Karlen doesn't care about journalistic integrity. Just eating off of Prince's carcass and going back to the shelter where he gets 3 square meals from. Prince like everybody was moody and could be contradictory. But in the words of Jay-Z, Neal Karlen "I don't believe you, you need more people". People doubted Prince's own account of his life in interviews, why shouldn't people question the veracity of a journalist? Especially one as creepy as Karlen. #princeovereverybody 3121 #1 THIS YEAR |
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This is exactly what Judith Hill told investigators Prince had said to her. I don't know enough about Karlen's other work to judge him; he comes across as a little eccentric in interviews. But the book had the ring of truth for me. I also don't really understand what Karlen would have to gain from making a load of shit up, and writing it up in such a nuanced, lyrical way four years after Prince died. If he was just cashing in, then rush-release it during peak Prince Nostalgia in the Summer of 2016; fill it with scans of the letters from Prince and transcripts of interviews; and go big on the "Prince swiped my Percocet" story, surely? [Edited 10/10/20 5:07am] |
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Robbajobba said:[quote]
This is exactly what Judith Hill told investigators Prince had said to her. I don't know enough about Karlen's other work to judge him; he comes across as a little eccentric in interviews. But the book had the ring of truth for me. I also don't really understand what Karlen would have to gain from making a load of shit up, and writing it up in such a nuanced, lyrical way four years after Prince died. If he was just cashing in, then rush-release it during peak Prince Nostalgia in the Summer of 2016; fill it with scans of the letters from Prince and transcripts of interviews; and go big on the "Prince swiped my Percocet" story, surely? . Interesting this Star Tribune plainly states it’s part fact part fiction. No doubt he’s a good writer but I don’t like the idea of having to work out what’s real and what’s just made up. Like the alleged last phone call. Is that just complete fabrication, as he’d stated previous they hadn’t talked in years . [Edited 10/10/20 5:07am] [/https://m.startribune.com/6-cool-things-in-music-this-week-include-robyn-amanda-shires-rhiannon-giddens-and-neal-karlen-s-prince-book/572612702/ | |
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TRUTH. A despicable character...watch him being interviewed & follow your instincts.
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Neal got it right on some the larger issues ie., compartmentalization, the need to be strong (cool) and unknowable at all times, the eventual over-identification with his image (Kayfabe), the influence of idols such as Ali (win- at- all costs), the need to dominate other musicians/bands etc.
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I think Prince respected the younger Miles Davis. He knew the current Miles was deteriorating and did not make a concerted effort to continue to meet with him.
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