donnyenglish said:

He is lying on Prince. He says Prince called him in March 2016 in the book. In April 2016 before Prince died he said:

Q: How long has it been since you had contact with him?

A: When did I insult him on John Hines' show? Several years ago; I'd say three. In the last year I've been to Paisley Park a few times. A few times we have locked eyes and we smiled at each other.

Stop lying on Prince. Stop talking to people that lie on Prince.

That interview is CJ. So when you want to bash someone, CJ suddenly because credible?

Vannormal said:

donnyenglish said:

I think Housequake asked the queestion recently what makes a true Prince fan? My answer to that question is that true Prince fans don't let people that lie on Prince tell Prince's story. This nonsense must stop and we can stop it instead of giving oxygen to these dumpster fires.

-

A Prince quote; ''fan = fanatic''

Anyways, Prince lied a lot - many times.

It suited him, he wanted us not to know things; ''I love mysteries''

It made him human, which he was, and we're all trying to figure that out, right here, right now.

There is so much information comming out. And that's very good. We need it from all sides.

And there will be more and more, and even so more suprises, I like that.

He was pretty unique - a virtuoso, but he was not perfect, and he was a very lonely guy.

He hated perfection; ''All that glitter's ain't gold.''

-

He actually was kind of a real Jamie Starr to be honest.

A character he created to mistify and lied about it (for instance).

To me a (true (hate that word)) Prince fan is someone who dares to see things differently, accepts uncomfortable truths and cares for different views from other angles, other than told by Prince himself.

At least this is my humble opinion and approach of what it all means to me.

I'm not a fan. I'm just a huge music absorber, and Prince happens to take a lot of time in that.

-

A fam, maybe? Though do understand that term may not be for you, any more than the fanatic one.

y'all gon really MAKE me google Neal Karlen huh?! he doesn't seem worth it. scrolling in hopes that someone says, oh he's such and such from so and so.....NOPE... oh well.

he sounds destitute

KoolEaze said:

fragglerock said:

for anyone who doesn't know who Neal is, he's absolute slime.

releasing private phone calls of Prince, do you honestly think Prince allowed him to record these phone calls?

I cant see how anyone can take one word of this work of fiction seriously

Neal contradicts himself more often than Michael Howe and thats saying something

I´m glad I´m not the only one who doesn´t have a high opinion of him.

This is the kind of book that probably contains a lot of info that the hardcore fans would want to know, but on the other hand it is the kind of book I wouldn´t want to buy in new form, only second hand, maybe not even that.

Isn´t this the same indiscreet person who once joked about Prince´s death before Prince died so he could get more money for the memorabilia he owns? Letters and such?

I know he did a couple of interviews and worked on a musical project with Prince but I couldn´t care less.

[Edited 10/6/20 18:03pm]

Neal is a jerk and I really don't like him, but I caved in and preordered the book in January because my curiosity got the best of me. I'm a hardcore fan and I want to learn all I can about Prince. At that time, I wasn't aware that actual covert recordings would be included in the audio version. A part of me feels dirty picking this book up, but I guess I'll judge for myself whether or not it was worth getting.

bluefish said:

KoolEaze said:

I´m glad I´m not the only one who doesn´t have a high opinion of him.

This is the kind of book that probably contains a lot of info that the hardcore fans would want to know, but on the other hand it is the kind of book I wouldn´t want to buy in new form, only second hand, maybe not even that.

Isn´t this the same indiscreet person who once joked about Prince´s death before Prince died so he could get more money for the memorabilia he owns? Letters and such?

I know he did a couple of interviews and worked on a musical project with Prince but I couldn´t care less.

[Edited 10/6/20 18:03pm]

Neal is a jerk and I really don't like him, but I caved in and preordered the book in January because my curiosity got the best of me. I'm a hardcore fan and I want to learn all I can about Prince. At that time, I wasn't aware that actual covert recordings would be included in the audio version. A part of me feels dirty picking this book up, but I guess I'll judge for myself whether or not it was worth getting.

I think it is worth getting and will soon be regarded as one of the most important books on Prince, I have no doubt about that. It´s just that I don´t like the things that he´s done and I´m starting to question whether there´s any truth to the things he claims but his book will most definitely contain a lot of insights that most fans would find interesting. But I wouldn´t want to spend money on it because I´d feel uncomfortable about it after all that he´s said and done, that´s all. It´s a rather personal issue I guess.

laytonian said:

PennyPurple said:

I just don't know. He recorded Prince without Prince knowing, and has those tapes. I just don't know. I'll wait til some more reviews come out.

Aren't those 1985 recordings for the first Rolling Stone interview?

Yes. I have one chapter left in the audio book and the only recordings "leaked" in the book are from the 1985 interview in which Prince knew he was being recorded. It is probably the most casual and unaffected I have ever heard him. The book does reveal things that seem almost too personal but it is handled in what I thought was a respectful and thoughtful way.

Neal confesses early in the book that he tried hard to distance himself professionally from Prince and I think that is why he acted like a dick towards Prince in some interviews. It's still shitty but at least he admits it.

I thought his chapter, "MN Mean" was a bit too harsh and wasn't really reflective of the past 15 years or the younger demographic. But one thing he got right - It is the worst and best place to live.

Karlen also plays the role of dime store psychologist through out the book - Take that as you may.

He is a good writer though. And at least he IS a writer, so we should expect a book from him. Hell, Prince probably would have expected a book.

I'm eager to see what the last chapter has to offer. But I'm from Mpls so if it isn't to my liking I'll be sure to come back and say how complete shite the book (and NK) is.

simm0061 said:

laytonian said:

donnyenglish said:

He is lying on Prince. He says Prince called him in March 2016 in the book. In April 2016 before Prince died he said:

Q: How long has it been since you had contact with him?

A: When did I insult him on John Hines' show? Several years ago; I'd say three. In the last year I've been to Paisley Park a few times. A few times we have locked eyes and we smiled at each other.

Stop lying on Prince. Stop talking to people that lie on Prince.

That interview is CJ. So when you want to bash someone, CJ suddenly because credible?

In the last chapter Neal claims he did this interview in order to make Prince so mad that he would call him. He claims he was worried about him after Moline and wanted to get him help for addiction - even going as far as getting in touch with a friend who worked at Hazelton. He claims that he hoped the interview with CJ would piss Prince off enough that he'd call him. I'm finding this hard to believe...

He loses crediblity in this chapter for me after he said the song P wrote for the Vikings was "funky", which clearly reveals that he has actually never heard it!

simm0061 said:

laytonian said:

That interview is CJ. So when you want to bash someone, CJ suddenly because credible?

In the last chapter Neal claims he did this interview in order to make Prince so mad that he would call him. He claims he was worried about him after Moline and wanted to get him help for addiction - even going as far as getting in touch with a friend who worked at Hazelton. He claims that he hoped the interview with CJ would piss Prince off enough that he'd call him. I'm finding this hard to believe...

He loses crediblity in this chapter for me after he said the song P wrote for the Vikings was "funky", which clearly reveals that he has actually never heard it!

simm0061 said:

laytonian said:

That interview is CJ. So when you want to bash someone, CJ suddenly because credible?

In the last chapter Neal claims he did this interview in order to make Prince so mad that he would call him. He claims he was worried about him after Moline and wanted to get him help for addiction - even going as far as getting in touch with a friend who worked at Hazelton. He claims that he hoped the interview with CJ would piss Prince off enough that he'd call him. I'm finding this hard to believe...

He loses crediblity in this chapter for me after he said the song P wrote for the Vikings was "funky", which clearly reveals that he has actually never heard it!

Lol on the song... Moline was April 14th, this interview was published on April 8th. Covering one's ass...

simm0061 said:

laytonian said:

donnyenglish said:

He is lying on Prince. He says Prince called him in March 2016 in the book. In April 2016 before Prince died he said:

Q: How long has it been since you had contact with him?

A: When did I insult him on John Hines' show? Several years ago; I'd say three. In the last year I've been to Paisley Park a few times. A few times we have locked eyes and we smiled at each other.

Stop lying on Prince. Stop talking to people that lie on Prince.

That interview is CJ. So when you want to bash someone, CJ suddenly because credible?

The interview is quoting Neal. Do you not think he would capable of dealing with with the paper if he was being misquoted? This wasn't his 1st interview with CJ.

donnyenglish said:

He is lying on Prince. He says Prince called him in March 2016 in the book.

yes, i saw a tweet that explained this

There's 5gb of investigation files from Carver County including phone records. Every point of contact to find the source of the fentanyl was interviewed. Guess who's not listed or was ever questioned

that's the proof right there that Neal is just making this crap up

TrivialPursuit said:

Vannormal said:

-

LOL, rolling on the floor.

-

I think you have to be a long time Prince fan to know who Neal Karlen is.

Find it also unbelievable some people never heard of him.

-

Okay first that rabbit began to talk... my best friend left me.

Second, I really don't recognize Neal's name off hand. I don't mean to imply he's not credible or anything. I just don't know him.

-

Absolutely.

And that was not very nice of me.

Sorry for that.

-

One thing, you got to love Neal Karlen.

I remember bying Rolling Stone magazine just to read his fantastic reviews and interviews.

The guy is full of wonder, and so passionate, but really honest as far as his writings go.

I never met him of course, but I always felt that in his passion he tried to do the right thing.

He basically never really judged anyone. He tried to be as objective as possible, although you could feel between his words where his love went to. He was full of joy when he liked something.

Certainly going to buy the book ! He's absolutely up my alley.

-

rednblue said:

Vannormal said:

-

A Prince quote; ''fan = fanatic''

Anyways, Prince lied a lot - many times.

It suited him, he wanted us not to know things; ''I love mysteries''

It made him human, which he was, and we're all trying to figure that out, right here, right now.

There is so much information comming out. And that's very good. We need it from all sides.

And there will be more and more, and even so more suprises, I like that.

He was pretty unique - a virtuoso, but he was not perfect, and he was a very lonely guy.

He hated perfection; ''All that glitter's ain't gold.''

-

He actually was kind of a real Jamie Starr to be honest.

A character he created to mistify and lied about it (for instance).

To me a (true (hate that word)) Prince fan is someone who dares to see things differently, accepts uncomfortable truths and cares for different views from other angles, other than told by Prince himself.

At least this is my humble opinion and approach of what it all means to me.

I'm not a fan. I'm just a huge music absorber, and Prince happens to take a lot of time in that.

-

A fam, maybe? Though do understand that term may not be for you, any more than the fanatic one.

-

LOL, certainly not a FAM. yuck.

I go with an unpronouncable appointment when it comes to being a Prince fan or fam or fanatic or whatever.

Don't do posters, wear no t-shirts, don't drink from Prince mugs, wear no Prince caps, i do no like the colour purple, no keyhanger symbol, no tattoo (certainly not).

It's very simple. I'm not an advertisment board that has Prince all over it.

I never wear t-shirts from nads either. LOL

When I was young (14yo) I had one KISS t-shirt. that's it.

I'm also kind of suspicious when I meet a Prince fan wearing a 2 foot Prince picuter or whatever. I know, I'm very wrong in that, weird even. I never wear visible sports or any clothing brands either.

-

The only thing I do have (I'm making a complete fool of myself here) is a live size cut out advert colour cardboard that has Cat wearing that black mirror. And ad for the SOTT single release.

It's in my toilet, right there when you open up the door.

-

MoodyBlumes said:

gsmith5678 said:

Browsing the pictures before I start the book proper and already I'm bothered by "the soundtrack went platinum and gave us It Only Snows In April and Kiss"...

Details details... of no import.

Well, I tend to think that basic errors of this kind lead one to question the accuracy of other aspects of the work. But, pot-ay-toe, pot-ah-toe.

datdude said:

y'all gon really MAKE me google Neal Karlen huh?! he doesn't seem worth it. scrolling in hopes that someone says, oh he's such and such from so and so.....NOPE... oh well.

he sounds destitute

-

You don't need to google him if you don't want too.

Go with the naysayers, and you know it's fundamentally prejudiced formation.

Choice is entirely yours.

-

bluefish said:

KoolEaze said:

I´m glad I´m not the only one who doesn´t have a high opinion of him.

This is the kind of book that probably contains a lot of info that the hardcore fans would want to know, but on the other hand it is the kind of book I wouldn´t want to buy in new form, only second hand, maybe not even that.

Isn´t this the same indiscreet person who once joked about Prince´s death before Prince died so he could get more money for the memorabilia he owns? Letters and such?

I know he did a couple of interviews and worked on a musical project with Prince but I couldn´t care less.

[Edited 10/6/20 18:03pm]

Neal is a jerk and I really don't like him, but I caved in and preordered the book in January because my curiosity got the best of me. I'm a hardcore fan and I want to learn all I can about Prince. At that time, I wasn't aware that actual covert recordings would be included in the audio version. A part of me feels dirty picking this book up, but I guess I'll judge for myself whether or not it was worth getting.

-

Have you ever met Neal karlen ?

Did you ever talked to him ? How do you know he's a jerk ?

-

Prince is dead.

When I'm dead, sure people will talk about things I didn't like them to talk about.

Same goes for all of us.

It's not accepted because its a moral thing, but everyone does it anyway; 'feeling dirty' while peeping or eavesdropping or reading gossip or sifting through truths, and especially commenting on them.

I for one am no better than anyone, although I really try to avoid it.

-

[Edited 10/8/20 7:01am]

So far this is one of the best books I have read about Prince. Very well written and interesting.

3rdeyedude said:

So far this is one of the best books I have read about Prince. Very well written and interesting.

It's a terrific book - he's a great writer. It deserves some serious analysis.

[Edited 10/8/20 8:03am]

Vannormal said:

rednblue said:

A fam, maybe? Though do understand that term may not be for you, any more than the fanatic one.

-

LOL, certainly not a FAM. yuck.

I go with an unpronouncable appointment when it comes to being a Prince fan or fam or fanatic or whatever.

Don't do posters, wear no t-shirts, don't drink from Prince mugs, wear no Prince caps, i do no like the colour purple, no keyhanger symbol, no tattoo (certainly not).

It's very simple. I'm not an advertisment board that has Prince all over it.

I never wear t-shirts from nads either. LOL

When I was young (14yo) I had one KISS t-shirt. that's it.

I'm also kind of suspicious when I meet a Prince fan wearing a 2 foot Prince picuter or whatever. I know, I'm very wrong in that, weird even. I never wear visible sports or any clothing brands either.

-

The only thing I do have (I'm making a complete fool of myself here) is a live size cut out advert colour cardboard that has Cat wearing that black mirror. And ad for the SOTT single release.

It's in my toilet, right there when you open up the door.

-

, and can you send me a handy keyboard gadget for typing that appointment?

It makes complete sense to me that fans/fams/glyphs and any other sort of Prince appreciators would love Prince above others, have loyalty to Prince above others, etc. His music is woven into fabric of so many lives. People will have other important things in common with Prince. Fans who are African American will understand many things I'll never understand. Endless smaller commonalities too...fans from the U.S. Midwest, fans who are in touch with the feminine and the masculine, fans who make music, etc., etc.

But there's one thing that I just don't get at all. How can people see what some might describe as the various lapses (the careless (at best) diminishment and disrespect for other people, the untruths about the purple world, etc.) so differentially, from a moral point of view? Prince himself expressed belief that hubris where people set others below themselves is an affront (sometimes expressed as an affront to God), that people should treat one another lovingly, etc. He clearly expressed his disrespect for disrespecting one another.

So, whether evaluated by Prince's statements, and/or a common code of human decency, why do people see Prince's transgressions so very differently from the possibility of others having transgressed in the same way?

Lies and distortions of what really went down in the purple world, disrespect for people's humanity, etc. Can't see that they serve the goals of anyone who loved Prince.

Prince at times treated journalists and others in his orbit like they weren't full-fledged human beings. Yet by Prince's own statements, denying someone's full humanity (for the sake of part of an incredible earthly enterprise or for any other reason) is wrong.

Just one example of muddiness and complication in this whole area is the way Prince would leave journalists waiting in limbo, away from the core of their loved ones and lives, seemingly just for his amusement. No doubt it was an earthly honor to be part of the purple enterprise, that great world that owed its existence to Prince and that expressed his brilliance. To be a major player in that world is an incredible earthly honor. Yet it in no way follows that someone's humanity should be diminished. By Prince's own code, it was wrong to push people toward merely being extensions of the purple world (no matter how great that world was) in a way that sought to deny them their full fledged personhood with lives of their own that mattered just as much as any other life.

IMO, every person is complicated, and there are reasons way beyond cruelty and uncaring that people do some of the things they do. Life experience acts to form a person, and a person also brings things into this world, from day one, that are absolutely unique to that person.

Most all people have a ton of good qualities. Most all people are complicated. One thing I don't get in all the complications is the way that moral judgments of other people by Prince fans (many of them experts) can sometimes come down.

But I'm a huge nerd with challenged social skills. Most others are very likely gonna be way more equiped to understand than I am.

After my way-too-long nerd yammering, I now need a bathroom. Can I visit your toilet?

[Edited 10/8/20 9:46am]

I said I might post another review after listening to the last chapter, and well, here it is:

I've finished the audio book. They last chapter is where he loses all credibility in my mind (I allowed him creative license in the proceeding chapters).

Karlen it seems, has a case of "The lady doth protest too much". He lambasts "Lies, and the lying liars who tell them"(to steal from Al Franken), while telling some whoppers himself. He tells us that in MN, if someone says " 'my truth', they are def lying", but then goes on to say that he is "writing the truth as [he] expereinced it" - He just told us he is lying!! - either about the former or the later but either way, lying!

He also claims that the interview he gave C.J. (on April 8?), in which he talks shit about P, was a tactic he used "out of desperation" to provoke P into calling him so that he could convince Prince to get help. And that he convinced himself that P needed help for drug addiction (based on timbre of P's voice) after they had talked on the phone 3 weeks prior. I call bullshit. I want to believe him because I actually liked the book (up until the last couple chapters) and I think he's a good writer, but...Bullshit.

He actually tells us in the first chapter that he does indeed make shit up. He admits that writing (in 1985) that P's mother sang with "more than a tace of Billie Holiday in her pipes" was totally made up, because having never heard her voice, he didn't know what else to say.

He (unknowingly) outs himself several more times. Examples; he describes the hymn P gave to the MN Vikings as funky. Hey Neal - goes listen to it!

He also states that The Family reunited and went on to recorded "many albums". For those who don't know, they recorded 1 (!) under the moniker FDeluxe. He also describes them as the "white version of the Time". He got the "white" part right - and I am speaking as a fan.

My take home message to those who might read the book is, to quote Neal, lies sprinkled with some truth, makes for some really good story telling. And he is a good story teller, a good writer. (Hell, I might even listen to the audio book again!) But he is also, to quote Prince, "a real sidewinding, mamma jamma"!

*I posted this in the other thread, so mods can delete this if they wish.

simm0061 said:

laytonian said:

Aren't those 1985 recordings for the first Rolling Stone interview?

Yes. I have one chapter left in the audio book and the only recordings "leaked" in the book are from the 1985 interview in which Prince knew he was being recorded. It is probably the most casual and unaffected I have ever heard him. The book does reveal things that seem almost too personal but it is handled in what I thought was a respectful and thoughtful way.

Neal confesses early in the book that he tried hard to distance himself professionally from Prince and I think that is why he acted like a dick towards Prince in some interviews. It's still shitty but at least he admits it.

I thought his chapter, "MN Mean" was a bit too harsh and wasn't really reflective of the past 15 years or the younger demographic. But one thing he got right - It is the worst and best place to live.

Karlen also plays the role of dime store psychologist through out the book - Take that as you may.

He is a good writer though. And at least he IS a writer, so we should expect a book from him. Hell, Prince probably would have expected a book.

I'm eager to see what the last chapter has to offer. But I'm from Mpls so if it isn't to my liking I'll be sure to come back and say how complete shite the book (and NK) is.

The typical knee-jerk assumptions here should embarrass them. Like the old "Prince would NOT do" (drink, eat fish, quit a vegan diet, serve alcohol, allow his music to be used in commerials) -- all of which are false assumptions.

gsmith5678 said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Details details... of no import.

Well, I tend to think that basic errors of this kind lead one to question the accuracy of other aspects of the work. But, pot-ay-toe, pot-ah-toe.

I was being sarcastic... I totally agree with you. If you are writing a bio, then you better have your research in order.

rnb said:

I am having an ambivalent reactions about this new Prince book! The way he interwoven Prince’s 1985 interview throughout this book (I have the audiobook) was sort of inventive. However, I think it was primarily used in that way to give the other stories or revelation that was stated by the author some credibility. Nonetheless, I never like this author by some of the disparaging comments he made about Prince during an interview he gave on a local radio show back in 1996/1997. His attitude in that interview made it seems like he didn’t like Prince as a human being. But I digress! Listening to this audible gave me a sense of Joy (listening to Prince voice from The Rolling Stones as he tells his own story) and a sense of plain disgust and repulsion. In other words, I was compelled and repulsed all the while listening to this book to a point I didn’t know if I wanted to turn up the volume or turned it off. To be honest outside of Prince stating his feelings and stories (the author even did a good job of muddling/blurring those words as truths from the subject mouths) - you didn’t know what in this story was actually true/or facts and what was plain outright fiction embellished by the author. The stories of contradictions he tells of Prince (still cussing up a storm regularly in private while being a JW when he was with the author or eating ribs from Randolphs restaurant when he was supposed to be a devout vegetarian) was fascinating and yet unbelievable at the same time! He go on to tell a loving story about Prince relationship with his father then a few minutes later Prince is chastising as well as belittling him in the presence of the author - I mean, how this is presented in the audiobook is A outright mind fuck - you question the believability of the this entire account but yet you kind are left with little traces within you believing it! He paints the father as a has-been, abuser, drunkard (like the dad in Purple Rain) not so talented musician who would rather spend all of his money on clothes and cars in order to keep up his imagine of a jazz artist instead of taking care of his family and their needs. He also paints his mother as a caring, loving mother who Prince regularly seek out counseling from throughout his life and all other stories that was relayed about her (such as Kim berry account of her and Prince’s own stories about her leaving erotic books about during his birds and bees teenage years) was complete fiction! He doesn’t state in this book that Prince’s mother was one of the first black twins born in Minneapolis and he doesn’t state that Prince’s mother was a great basketball player when she was in high school. Had he mentioned those facts in this book - I would be more receptive to believe those stories. Honestly, do I want to believe that Mattie Shaw Nelson Baker was a loving mother who counseled her son? Yes I do- we all would like to believe that! It is a story about his mother that never been presented/revealed in all the stories about Prince. Do I want to believe that John Nelson was beating his wife, kids, was a drunkard, a talentless musician who didn’t care for his family needs and when his son became successful chastised and belittle his father in front of a somewhat stranger (the author)? No I don’t want to believe that story however, the movie Purple Rain depiction of the father makes the story plausible to believe. Not that I believe it! That is the genius of this book - it makes everything true and false all at the same time. It is muddled with half truths and half poetic license from the author that the reader have to decipher for themselves what is truth and what is fiction! This book is indeed a mind fuck!

Well we also know that John Nelson worked full time at Honeywell and was supporting 2 families. He was a part time musician, like many musicians. Andre Cymone's dad played in John's band and Andre spoke very highly of him. Prince had family issues... like many of us do. And Prince gives his own account of his parents in his memoir, so not sure why Neal needed to do so -- he never knew them. Prince shares some of the challenges, as well as love and respect, from the perspective of an older man reflecting on his life. Prince shared about his dad on Tavis Smiley (here at 8:47 - https://www.youtube.com/w...VfZyDJ6lJs), also in the Piano and Microphone concert I saw -- he was definitely influenced by his dad. I think Prince would have made a very good writer with his eloquence, nuance, humor and depth. Miles on Prince: "Yeah, he's one of America's greatest poets." (Miles on Miles, Interviews and Encounters with Miles Davis)

.

Prince's cousin Louis Hayes is a top shelf jazz musician who's played with everyone from Oscar Peterson to John Coltrane (speaks on Prince here - http://www.afrocentricnew...hayes.html ). Louis did an album of John Nelson's music at Paisley Park (Don't Play with Love), and the music is beautiful. Sharon Nelson organized it.

[Edited 10/8/20 11:54am]

MoodyBlumes said:

rnb said:

I am having an ambivalent reactions about this new Prince book! The way he interwoven Prince’s 1985 interview throughout this book (I have the audiobook) was sort of inventive. However, I think it was primarily used in that way to give the other stories or revelation that was stated by the author some credibility. Nonetheless, I never like this author by some of the disparaging comments he made about Prince during an interview he gave on a local radio show back in 1996/1997. His attitude in that interview made it seems like he didn’t like Prince as a human being. But I digress! Listening to this audible gave me a sense of Joy (listening to Prince voice from The Rolling Stones as he tells his own story) and a sense of plain disgust and repulsion. In other words, I was compelled and repulsed all the while listening to this book to a point I didn’t know if I wanted to turn up the volume or turned it off. To be honest outside of Prince stating his feelings and stories (the author even did a good job of muddling/blurring those words as truths from the subject mouths) - you didn’t know what in this story was actually true/or facts and what was plain outright fiction embellished by the author. The stories of contradictions he tells of Prince (still cussing up a storm regularly in private while being a JW when he was with the author or eating ribs from Randolphs restaurant when he was supposed to be a devout vegetarian) was fascinating and yet unbelievable at the same time! He go on to tell a loving story about Prince relationship with his father then a few minutes later Prince is chastising as well as belittling him in the presence of the author - I mean, how this is presented in the audiobook is A outright mind fuck - you question the believability of the this entire account but yet you kind are left with little traces within you believing it! He paints the father as a has-been, abuser, drunkard (like the dad in Purple Rain) not so talented musician who would rather spend all of his money on clothes and cars in order to keep up his imagine of a jazz artist instead of taking care of his family and their needs. He also paints his mother as a caring, loving mother who Prince regularly seek out counseling from throughout his life and all other stories that was relayed about her (such as Kim berry account of her and Prince’s own stories about her leaving erotic books about during his birds and bees teenage years) was complete fiction! He doesn’t state in this book that Prince’s mother was one of the first black twins born in Minneapolis and he doesn’t state that Prince’s mother was a great basketball player when she was in high school. Had he mentioned those facts in this book - I would be more receptive to believe those stories. Honestly, do I want to believe that Mattie Shaw Nelson Baker was a loving mother who counseled her son? Yes I do- we all would like to believe that! It is a story about his mother that never been presented/revealed in all the stories about Prince. Do I want to believe that John Nelson was beating his wife, kids, was a drunkard, a talentless musician who didn’t care for his family needs and when his son became successful chastised and belittle his father in front of a somewhat stranger (the author)? No I don’t want to believe that story however, the movie Purple Rain depiction of the father makes the story plausible to believe. Not that I believe it! That is the genius of this book - it makes everything true and false all at the same time. It is muddled with half truths and half poetic license from the author that the reader have to decipher for themselves what is truth and what is fiction! This book is indeed a mind fuck!

Well we also know that John Nelson worked full time at Honeywell and was supporting 2 families. He was a part time musician, like many musicians. Andre Cymone's dad played in John's band and Andre spoke very highly of him. Prince had family issues... like many of us do. And Prince gives his own account of his parents in his memoir, so not sure why Neal needed to do so -- he never knew them. Prince shares some of the challenges, as well as love and respect, from the perspective of an older man reflecting on his life. Prince shared about his dad on Tavis Smiley (here at 8:47 - https://www.youtube.com/w...VfZyDJ6lJs), also in the Piano and Microphone concert I saw -- he was definitely influenced by his dad. I think Prince would have made a very good writer with his eloquence, nuance, humor and depth, Miles on Prince: "Yeah, he's one of America's greatest poets." (Miles on Miles, Interviews and Encounters with Miles Davis)

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Prince's cousin Louis Hayes is top shelf jazz musician who's played with everyone from Oscar Peterson to John Coltrane (speaks on Prince here - http://www.afrocentricnew...hayes.html ). Louis did an album of John Nelson's music at Paisley (Don't Play with Love), and the music is beautiful. Sharon Nelson organized it.

[Edited 10/8/20 11:51am]

YES! to bolded.

Thanks for information on Louis Hayes! Had no idea.

rednblue said:

Vannormal said:

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LOL, certainly not a FAM. yuck.

I go with an unpronouncable appointment when it comes to being a Prince fan or fam or fanatic or whatever.

Don't do posters, wear no t-shirts, don't drink from Prince mugs, wear no Prince caps, i do no like the colour purple, no keyhanger symbol, no tattoo (certainly not).

It's very simple. I'm not an advertisment board that has Prince all over it.

I never wear t-shirts from nads either. LOL

When I was young (14yo) I had one KISS t-shirt. that's it.

I'm also kind of suspicious when I meet a Prince fan wearing a 2 foot Prince picuter or whatever. I know, I'm very wrong in that, weird even. I never wear visible sports or any clothing brands either.

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The only thing I do have (I'm making a complete fool of myself here) is a live size cut out advert colour cardboard that has Cat wearing that black mirror. And ad for the SOTT single release.

It's in my toilet, right there when you open up the door.

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, and can you send me a handy keyboard gadget for typing that appointment?

It makes complete sense to me that fans/fams/glyphs and any other sort of Prince appreciators would love Prince above others, have loyalty to Prince above others, etc. His music is woven into fabric of so many lives. People will have other important things in common with Prince. Fans who are African American will understand many things I'll never understand. Endless smaller commonalities too...fans from the U.S. Midwest, fans who are in touch with the feminine and the masculine, fans who make music, etc., etc.

But there's one thing that I just don't get at all. How can people see what some might describe as the various lapses (the careless (at best) diminishment and disrespect for other people, the untruths about the purple world, etc.) so differentially, from a moral point of view? Prince himself expressed belief that hubris where people set others below themselves is an affront (sometimes expressed as an affront to God), that people should treat one another lovingly, etc. He clearly expressed his disrespect for disrespecting one another.

So, whether evaluated by Prince's statements, and/or a common code of human decency, why do people see Prince's transgressions so very differently from the possibility of others having transgressed in the same way?

Lies and distortions of what really went down in the purple world, disrespect for people's humanity, etc. Can't see that they serve the goals of anyone who loved Prince.

Prince at times treated journalists and others in his orbit like they weren't full-fledged human beings. Yet by Prince's own statements, denying someone's full humanity (for the sake of part of an incredible earthly enterprise or for any other reason) is wrong.

Just one example of muddiness and complication in this whole area is the way Prince would leave journalists waiting in limbo, away from the core of their loved ones and lives, seemingly just for his amusement. No doubt it was an earthly honor to be part of the purple enterprise, that great world that owed its existence to Prince and that expressed his brilliance. To be a major player in that world is an incredible earthly honor. Yet it in no way follows that someone's humanity should be diminished. By Prince's own code, it was wrong to push people toward merely being extensions of the purple world (no matter how great that world was) in a way that sought to deny them their full fledged personhood with lives of their own that mattered just as much as any other life.

IMO, every person is complicated, and there are reasons way beyond cruelty and uncaring that people do some of the things they do. Life experience acts to form a person, and a person also brings things into this world, from day one, that are absolutely unique to that person.

Most all people have a ton of good qualities. Most all people are complicated. One thing I don't get in all the complications is the way that moral judgments of other people by Prince fans (many of them experts) can sometimes come down.

But I'm a huge nerd with challenged social skills. Most others are very likely gonna be way more equiped to understand than I am.

After my way-too-long nerd yammering, I now need a bathroom. Can I visit your toilet?

[Edited 10/8/20 9:46am]

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LOL

Your respond is a pleasant surpise.

I'm going to take my time and answer you later.

Yes, you can use my toilet.

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